Micro 310: Shitty Joke Smalltown II (game over)

[Micc]

Lets all pick quick and move a spot up in line. That would be cool.

[Micc]

1-shot bulletproof please

[Micc]

VOTE: farside22

Need to figure out the double voter asap

[Micc]

Couple things to notice about the setup:

MyLo could potentially occur in Day 2 if Farside22 is scum.

We can coordinate actions to guarantee a successful cop investigation night 2 by using the global roleblock and the doctor.

[Micc]

Yikes, I got prodded. I just got home for spring break last night so I should have time for this now.

On first read through I understand why absta caught some early attention, but dont think he looks necessarily scummy at this point. I want to keep the pressure up on Farside, but I havent seen anything worth questioning on first glance. I should have some time tonight to take a better look at this game.

[Micc]

Micc what is your opinion on far side/absta?

I haven't been involved enough to make any real reads yet. Working on getting that fixed tonight and tomorrow during the day.

I am still debating the merits of no-lynching in my head. I think it might make sense in day two following a day one mislynch, but I don't think it is a good option for day one unless we really can't come to a consensus.

Now that I know my alignment. I think the 1-shot RB should go off tonight. The reason is that (1) it stops the mafia from killing anyone and (2) the even night cop can't use his ability till night 2. The cop gets an investigation and the doc can protect the cop.

If you were scum, would you have avoided outing this method of coordination? I find it weird, and a little bit awkward that your actions might hinge on your alignment.

Sorry not at L-1. I thought it was 4 to lynch.

Where did you get the idea of four to lynch from? One vote off because of the double voter I could understand, but two off makes me wonder a little bit.

[Micc]

I'm numbing instead of seperating this. If your confused let me know.
1) If you remember the start of the game I stated 3 roles I wanted one was 1-shot RB. I already had the thought of how best to use that ability as town and if I was scum and had the role I would have used it had it been suggested. (yes WIFOM) but that is how the start of the game is, you pick what is best and how to use it no matter the aligment. (well you should)

That all makes good sense but what I'm really interested in why you threw the "Now that I know my alignment" bit into that post. If you were scum would you have suggested the plan or not?

2) I'm in more then one game. I got confused by the number when I was in this game vs. another.

I still don't understand how people play multiple games at a time. This game started a little earlier than I expected, and the week or so that I had to juggle two games shut down my motivation to play completely.

When did you have the thought of the 1-shot RB?

While we were waiting for the first pick to be made I analyzed all the role interactions for combinations that would be powerful together. The cop/doc/rb combination and the endgame power of the doublevoter were the two things that stood out to me.

Why is there interest only in me and absta? Are you only scum searching based on roles? If so why?

Knowing all the roles makes it easier to see how the game might pan out. Because of your roles, this game is going to revolve around you and absta. Maybe not in day one, but farther down the road being solid on these two reads is going to be absolutely necessary. So yes, I am scum searching based on roles. It also helps that I have a newly finished game with half the player list. Im fairly confident that I can read Yiley. jklash and Tiershift not as much, but at least I have experience playing with them. Newbie 1474 in case anyone cares.

[Micc]

I am still debating the merits of no-lynching in my head. I think it might make sense in day two following a day one mislynch, but I don't think it is a good option for day one unless we really can't come to a consensus.

Why is it better to no lynch AFTER a lynch instead of before?

The day 2 no lynch would only be viable if we mislynched day 1 and were potentially in MyLo. Yiley is the cop, and I am fairly confident that between Tiershift, jklash, and I we can read him accurately. Getting to that night 2 cop investigation without losing excessive town players could be the difference in the game.

Micc, prepare to be subject to heavy paranoia

Yeah...consequences of playing a good scum game I guess. Ill deal with it.

@Micc: It is 4 people to lynch, by the way. 3 non-hammerer single-voters, 1 double-voter. That's 5 votes, hence L-1, hence hammerer hammers. farside was right about that. Also, I'm playing 4 games currently. I don't see the problem.

I am aware that four people could potentially hammer someone because of the existence of a double voter and a hammerer. I don't think that is what farside was refering to at the time. As far as multiple games at a time goes...I don't really care what everybody else does. I just know I cant pull it off myself, have tried and failed multiple times already.

So you admit that you didn't say anything about the roles before the game started but wait till after.
Why did you decide to wait?
What makes it different from me waiting?

Yeah I held off discussing roles because I didn't want to influence anyone else's decision. I would rather have a good role fall to me because someone didn't see its potential use than lose out on a good role I otherwise would have gotten. Honestly I think 1-shot bp is a better role than where it was picked and I wont shy away from that now that the game has started.

Well that's fair enough that you don't know me. How do you think the questions you asked gets you a read on me?
Also I would like your opinion of Brian.

I try to get reads through understanding play style and intentions. Early game questions is the first step of the process.

Brian seems a little caught up with the game mechanics just like everybody else. There isn't a whole lot to go on. The subtle defense of jklash doesn't really bother me because its the same line of thinking that I have regarding jklash and the dayvig mix up.

Micc, prepare to be subject to heavy paranoia

Some how I feel this is a slight against me.

I don't think it has anything to do with you, and lots to do with the newbie game I linked that ended a few hours ago. With four overlapping players its a pretty good read for anyone who uses meta. I know I will be referring to it multiple times throughout this game.

I'm pretty sure privateI does not know yiley's scum game.

Based off that last post I would agree.

[Micc]

I know I will be referring to it multiple times throughout this game.

Already got your next moves planned, scum?

When I am scum there is nothing to plan. Town miraculously lynches itself while I act like I don't have any clue whats going on.

My primary experience with Yiley is on another forum. Maybe he's more shrewd here, which is entirely possible.

That's interesting. In the only scum game I have ever seen from Yiley, he lurked hard and showed absolutely no interest. In his town games he seems involved and interested despite generally being lynchbait because of his playstyle and lack of shrewdness. What do you know about his scum games from that other site?



Farside, whats up with the half reads list? Why are the other players not included?

[Micc]

I'm numbing instead of seperating this. If your confused let me know.
1) If you remember the start of the game I stated 3 roles I wanted one was 1-shot RB. I already had the thought of how best to use that ability as town and if I was scum and had the role I would have used it had it been suggested. (yes WIFOM) but that is how the start of the game is, you pick what is best and how to use it no matter the aligment. (well you should)

That all makes good sense but what I'm really interested in why you threw the "Now that I know my alignment" bit into that post. If you were scum would you have suggested the plan or not?

No.
What is the point of this question? How do you learn my alignment with it?

I remember typing up a response to this, but I am not sure how it got left out of my post. Sorry about that.

The point of the question was to generate conversation and help me get an idea of your playstyle. Understanding where people are coming and how they think helps me determine their alignment based on their actions and their intentions.

What reads do you currently have?

You feel town to me, although Im not really sure why. Absta has said a lot, but none of it is memorable and I am not sure why he is gaining town reads. Nothing else is jumping out at me about anyone expect Yiley. So far this game looks more like scum-Yiley than town-Yiley.

UNVOTE: Farside
VOTE: Yiley

[Micc]

@Micc: Could you explain your Yiley read in more detail?

What reads do you currently have?

You feel town to me, although Im not really sure why. Absta has said a lot, but none of it is memorable and I am not sure why he is gaining town reads. Nothing else is jumping out at me about anyone expect Yiley.

So far this game looks more like scum-Yiley than town-Yiley

.

UNVOTE: Farside
VOTE: Yiley

Explain the bolded please.

Link to Yiley's ISO in his only scum game that I know of. To say that he wasn't engaged in that game is an understatement. Its a sharp contrast to the town game I played with him where he emphasized that being active and involved was good town play in his first few posts. His one line posts once per day feel more like the scum game than the town one.

Even looking at this game in a tunnel Yiley does't look that great. Who comes out and says

I am analyzing people just not posing about it

? For some reason I don't believe that crap.

Also, many happy returns.

Thanks!

So far this game looks more like scum-Yiley than town-Yiley.

Is it shitty cold-meta time?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I explained it above. Do you disagree?

I believe the scum is in Micc/Private/Brian/Tier.

Is it because you think that group is not doing anything productive, or some other reason(s)? If so, why did Yiley get left out?

[Micc]

Why is there interest only in me and absta? Are you only scum searching based on roles? If so why?

Knowing all the roles makes it easier to see how the game might pan out. Because of your roles, this game is going to revolve around you and absta. Maybe not in day one, but farther down the road being solid on these two reads is going to be absolutely necessary. So yes, I am scum searching based on roles. It also helps that I have a newly finished game with half the player list. Im fairly confident that I can read Yiley. jklash and Tiershift not as much, but at least I have experience playing with them. Newbie 1474 in case anyone cares.

Mehhhhhhh..... so you're only scumhunting based on roles and nothing else? Convinced you can read me, yiley and jklash (like really but sure think that) but then not question us, trying to form these reads?

Not sure if you're intentionally putting those words in my mouth, or just didn't read very closely.

Nothing else is jumping out at me about anyone expect Yiley. So far this game looks more like scum-Yiley than town-Yiley.

UNVOTE: Farside
VOTE: Yiley

Why are you not interacting with him, asking him questions?

Because interacting with Yiley usually ends with me wanting to close my laptop and not play mafia for the rest of the day. It's not like he is here to interact with anyways.

Micc, who can read me so well, what's your read on me?

Again with the putting words in my mouth? I have you as null right now.

[Micc]

@Micc - I looked at one of Yiley's town games and he played roughly the same there as he is here. So I don't feel comfortable calling him scum for his completely fucking shit playstyle.

That doesn't explain why Yiley didn't end up in your pile of players who you "believe the scum is in". Being outside of that pile seems to indicate a weak town read at the very least. What I am trying to understand is how your opinion of Yiley's playstyle makes you uncomfortable with calling him scum, but completely comfortable with suggesting he is town.

@Micc: Could you give me the link to the game where Yiley says this, please? You only linked his scumgame, as far as I can see.

Link. Most notebly the posts spoiler-ed below.

Spoiler: Yiley promoting good activity in Newbie 1474

Also as a note you newbies need to be active no one could get any reads in that game because no one posted for a long time and the final three were very inactive besides ddd who was doing it on purpose. BE ACTIVE. also I'm bad at this game and I will be scum read by a majority most likely at some point. My past games show this.

You wannaa go look at my games? Does it look like I have ever done the type of coasting you are describing? I have had 1 scum game and it was bad. Activity as in if I post something for you to respond to how long on average do I have to wait for an answer

Link to Yiley's ISO in his only scum game that I know of. To say that he wasn't engaged in that game is an understatement. Its a sharp contrast to the town game I played with him where he emphasized that being active and involved was good town play in his first few posts. His one line posts once per day feel more like the scum game than the town one.

I really don't see much contrast between this game Yiley and last game Yiley. He did say that about being active but that is taken out of context because his other early posts are similar to his play in this game.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Micc

I would love to hear why you think that was out of context, because its baffling me that you think that. While you are at it show us how the games are similar, because I don't see that either.

[Micc]

Absta's reads make me lol.

[Micc]

I can see why jklash moved and maybe farside, but the Brian read reeks of being fake. Its not as bad as I originally thought, but it still looks screwy.

I believe the scum is in Micc/Private/Brian/Tier.

I am still trying to figure out how you can believe scum is in this group of four even though you have Yiley as a null read. Especially when you are on record as saying that you wont call Yiley scum because of his "shit playstyle." Having no respect for Yiley's skills as a player is not a reason to keep him out of your scum list.

[Micc]

Am I supposed to understand that reference? Right now all it is doing is confusing me.

[Micc]

Yiley looks like scum. I don't care if he gets replaced or not, I want the slot dead. Yet, lynching the cop makes me nervous. I cant decide if it is worth letting him get an investigation off or not. If we decide to keep Yiley around, I think absta is a good second option.

[Micc]

His reads are fake. His arrogance rubs me the wrong way. His complaining about the lack of pro town play looks exactly like what I did in my first scum game. He is a hammerer, which means we should be policy lynching him sometime before MyLo anyways. He ignores the topics that I most want to hear from him about.

[Micc]

Your reads look fake because they change despite the person hardly posting in between. You addressed the situation about your read on Yiley which is the main topic I thought you were ignoring. I would like to hear why your read on Brian changed between your vote on him and your vote on Tiershift. You are an automatic vote for scum in MyLo. Don't try to say you are not a legitimate policy lynch at some point soon.

I don't think Tiershift is scum, to answer that question.

Would you vote to lynch Yiley today or are you against that path of action?

Why do you think I am the best option for a cop investigation? (Tier, i want this answered before i comment on the topic of me being investigated)

[Micc]

That was all directed at absta in case it isnt clear.

[Micc]

It's not really even that his reads change. If they didnt change he might get grief for tunneling on someone. Its that the change makes them look fake. I couldn't for the life of me tell you why he is voting for Tiershift....or why he thinks I look scummy.....or why he thinks jklash might be scum. All I see is a lot of effort to keep the lynch off Yiley, who he doesn't seem to want to go anywhere near.

[Micc]

Absta: That post is the exact opposite of clear. It starts off addressing me, then addresses "the rest of you". Next it gives sentence about why I am scum, a couple sentences about why Tiershift is scum, and then addresses an arbitrary "you" (probably me i guess) saying that whoever "you" is might be Absta's vote by the end of the day.

I accept being the target of any cop investigation that happens. Not because I think there is any legitimacy to your scum read on me, but certainly because being cop confirmed town 1-shot bulletproof sounds pretty awesome at this point.

[Micc]

I would still rather lynch Yiley at this point than do the cop investigation.

[Micc]

My last jab was borderline below the belt. Ill let this opportunity pass unless there is some way it relates to this game that you want to talk about.

Predit: Yes, I am. You said you have off site experience with Yiley. Tell us about it please.

[Micc]

In other words Yiley needs more time to talk things over with his Scumbuddy. He will get back to us in ~24 hours.

[Micc]

UNVOTE: Yiley
I want to hear what Yiley has to say when he gets back. I'll get to commenting on everything else as soon as I make some food.

[Micc]

One last attempt to break down the Mylo/Lylo situation that we have going on. The four possible outcomes of Day 1 are:
1. Lynch absta
2. Lynch a player who isn't absta or Farside
3. Lynch Farside
4. No Lynch
Since outcomes one and two don't seem to be receiving any consideration I am just going to break down outcomes three and four. I'm going to make the assumption that the global roleblock will be used N1. If it doesn't get used we policy lynch Brian on D2 no questions asked.

Outcome #1: We lynch absta D1

If we lynch absta and he flips town, there will be 9 votes in play on D2. The worst case scenario is that Farside is mafia, which would mean that mafia have control of three votes. If we mislynch D2 and there is a nightkill N2, then on D3 there are 7 votes in play with scum controlling three.

That means worst case scenario D3 is Lylo if we lynch absta and he flips town.

If we lynch absta and he flips mafia, there will be 9 votes in play on D2. The worst case scenario is that Farside is mafia, which would mean that mafia have control of two votes. If we mislynch D2 and there is a nightkill N2, then D3 there are 7 votes in play with scum controlling two. We could mislynch and get hit by another nightkill meaning D4 there are 5 votes in play with scum controling two.

That means worst case senario D4 is Lylo if we lynch absta and he flips mafia.

Outcome #2: We lynch someone who isn't absta or farside

If we lynch a PlayerX (anyone but absta and Farside) and PlayerX flips town, there will be 9 votes in play on D2. The worst case scenario is that Farside is mafia, which means that mafia have the hammering power of four votes. If we mislynch PlayerY (who is not absta or Farside) on D2 and there is a nightkill N2, then D3 there are 7 votes in play with scum having the hammering power of four votes. Thus the game is over unless town gets enough votes on mafia to force a hammer before scum coordinates a hammer on town.

That means that worst case scenario D2 is Lylo if PlayerX flips town and absta isn't the D2 lynch.

~If we go back and lynch absta D2 and he flips town, the nightkill makes D3 have 7 votes in play with mafia in control of three.

That means worst case scenario D3 is Lylo if PlayerX flips town and we then lynch town-absta D2.

~If we go back and lynch absta D2 and he flips mafia, the nightkill makes D3 have 7 votes in play with mafia in control of two. We could mislynch and get hit by another nightkill meaning D4 there are 5 votes in play with scum controlling two.

That means worst case scenario D4 is Lylo if PlayerX flips town and we then lynch scum-absta D2.

If we lynch a PlayerX (anyone but absta and Farside) and PlayerX flips mafia, there will be 9 votes in play on D2. The worst case scenario is that Farside is mafia, which means that mafia have the hammering power of three votes. If we mislynch PlayerY (who is not absta or Farside) on D2 and there is a nightkill N2, then D3 there are 7 votes in play with scum having the hammering power of three votes.

That means that worst case scenario D3 is Lylo if PlayerX flips mafia and absta isn't the D2 lynch

~If we go back and lynch absta D2 and he flips mafia, the game is over and we win.
~If we go back and lynch absta D2 and he flips town, the nightkill makes D3 have 7 votes in play with mafia controlling two. We could mislynch and get hit by another nightkill meaning D4 there are 5 votes in play with scum controling two.

That means that worst case scenario D4 is Lylo if PlayerX flips mafia and we then lynch town-absta.

Conclusion

We don't loose a day if we policy lynch absta D1 or D2. Anytime after that could potentially be too late. There isn't a difference policy between lynching absta D1 compared to D2 as far as I can tell. The results come out the same no matter what alignment he is.

Unless I screwed something up somewhere this should prove that there is no reason not to policy lynch absta. We don't loose anything by doing it, and we win on the 25% chance that he is scum. That being said I really don't see any reason not to make the policy lynch happen D1 because the extra time to decide on the other lynch could prove extremely beneficial.

[Micc]

Vote and unvote tags seem to be broken. Looks like N counted my unvote in 275, but...

Unvote: Yiley

Just to be sure.

[Micc]

Your reads look fake because they change despite the person hardly posting in between.

Or he accused me of being scum for something, I disproved his statement with meta, and his read changed based on said meta. As well as the other things Absta has already mentioned. But the first part could have been implied in thread and you completely ignored it. Why?

As far as I can tell absta's only response to your defense was in post 198. He ignored all the meta and said what you did was still bad town play. I don't know what other things absta has mentioned that you are referring to.

You are an automatic vote for scum in MyLo.

What do you mean by this statement (because I'm reading it two different ways)?

And you shouldn't be automatically voting for people in Mylo. It's called Mylo for a reason.

In that statement I was referring to the fact that absta being alive gives the mafia an increased hammering power of one vote. I can see how that may have been confusing. And yes, I understand that automatically voting in a Mylo situation is bad.

All I see is a lot of effort to keep the lynch off Yiley, who he doesn't seem to want to go anywhere near.

Do you think town would be more nervous about potentially mislynching a known investigative role?

I'm not quite sure how this question relates, but yes I could understand why town would be nervous about potentially mislynching a known investigative role. No, I don't think that's why absta was shying away from considering Yiley as possible scum. I was linking them together as a possible scumteam in my head. Either way it is pretty clear that absta wasn't simply shying away from considering Yiley for scum because of his role as a cop. If that was the case absta would not have four other players as higher scum reads.

---

There still seems to be some indecision about whether to use the roleblock N1 or not. Hopefully I can put some of that to rest. There is no reason not to use it. It stops a nightkill N1 just the same as it will stop a nightkill N2 or N3 or N4. There are no information gathering power roles that are usable N1.

I just typed up a bunch more scenarios and deleted them all because I think I screwed up. The difference between blocking the nightkill N1 and not blocking it is the difference between 8 or 9 votes in play D2. Since either situation means it takes 5 votes to lynch the difference really becomes whether we can afford to no lynch D2 if we so choose. With the N1 roleblock we have the option, and without the roleblock we don't have that option.

If that's wrong it's because I'm tired and need a break. Everybody should take the time to read through post 278 and make sure they agree because I'm not ruling out the possibility that I overlooked something.

[Micc]

When did mafia become lets lynch based on role instead of who is scum?

Right about the time you signed up for a smalltown formatted game.

When did PL become better then scum hunting?

When negative utility roles became a thing.

If we lynch someone because of WIFOM then how do we know who on the wagon is scum with that basis? No offense but I look at those who are on the wagon and why.

We wouldn't be lynching absta because of WIFOM, we would be lynching him because he is a mod confirmed negative utility role. We don't lose any mislynches by getting rid of absta, so I don't see how your wagon analysis is interrupted. Feel free ignoring the absta wagon if you would like, but every other wagon can still be analyzed.

Plus we are talking about trusting a cop now that some are suspicious of.
What stops the cop if he is scum from lying?

I don't trust Yiley one bit. I would like to see him gone by day two unless things seriously change. Even then I would be suspicious. Nothing stops him from lying as scum.

Micc: What do you learn with a PL?

I learn absta's alignment. Since I am town, absta has a 25% chance of flipping scum in which case we would be in really good shape going forward. In the 75% chance that he is town we don't lose anything. I don't see why we wouldn't flip absta to see what his alignment is.

[Micc]

Do you know how to analysis a wagon with no flip of said player?

I don't even know what you are trying to say. We get flips when people get lynched. There is no reason we wouldn't get a flip on the player we lynched. I'm pretty sure that's not what you are trying to say, but that's what I am reading no matter how I look at it.

So your pushing a policy lynch over a scum lynch because?????

Because policy lynching absta is essentially lynching scum no matter what alignment he is. When he is dead, scum have one less vote that they can use to endgame the town. If by chance he flips scum then its a bonus - we essentially removed two votes that scum could have used to endgame the town.

I'm not sure how many more different ways I can try to explain that we don't lose anything by lynching absta. The amount of mislynches that we get this game depends on whether you are town, and whether you get nightkilled at some point. I cant really say what that number is, but I can say that lynching absta will not lower the number no matter what he flips.

Dude that logic true of any lynch. Your using a role and not scum hunting. That is not going to fly in my world. You want to lynch absta off of PL don't ask me to be onboard. I would rather lynch scum.

Hopefully I have explained it to the point that it makes sense by now. Lynching absta is as good as guaranteed scum lynch even if he flips town. I'm not saying that we are going to win this game by looking at the role PM's and breaking the game. Yes, we will need to scum hunt and lynch scum once absta is gone. But for now the best course of action is to lynch the negative utility role before it can hurt us in the end game.

Absta needs to be lynched Day2 at the very latest, otherwise it might be too late. Since Yiley is a stronger scum read than absta or anyone else I think he should be lynched today. This way Absta gets to live longer and have more of an impact than Yiley. That means we lynch absta Day 2. The only way we don't is if Brian agrees to use the roleblock but doesn't use it. In that case he is confirmed scum and we lynch him.

[Micc]

Tiershift and jklash on Yiley already, plus farside is a double voter, plus PrivateI, plus absta as the hammerer. So that's six and a hammer if it counts. I have a post half way typed up and if this day ends before I get it out I'm going to be a little upset.

[Micc]

I will use my ability based on how I feel it can best be used towards my wincon. I think using it N1 is most beneficial for keeping the cop alive and not lynching Absta for purely PL purposes (as well as for the sake of using it before I die).

I don't know if my answer will change based on today's lynch because the only reason I would use it on a different day is if a) the even-night cop is no longer around to be protected (in which case I can now use my ability on even nights) and b) I feel the ability can be better used later on in the game.

Using it Night 1 still looks like a logical choice to me.

One of two things need to happen here:
1. You need to announce that you are using it for sure on Night 1. This way we know you lied to us if there is a night kill, and we can lynch you accordingly.
2. You need to explain to us why you want to hold on to the power. If you plan is conditional depending on the lynch you need to explain why that's the best plan of attack, and what action you will take in every possible outcome. You should get this done pretty quickly because the deadline is coming up pretty quick.

I am not accepting a wishy washy plan of attack regarding this roleblock. Say what you are going to do, say why you are going to do it, and do what you say you are going to do.

I'm not interested in lynching somebody I think is town just because their role is deemed negative utility. Absta's posting reads townish and it looks like he's seriously trying to find scum. I'd rather try and find the scum-team before he becomes a liability than just lynching him for PL purposes. However, I understand the concern over the role but I'd rather deal with it if it actually becomes an issue (Day 2) than not trying to lynch scum today.

Cool. I agree.

Why do you want to lynch Farside? And why isn't Yiley mentioned in your list considering you want to lynch him today?

Because its a list that encompasses all possible outcomes of Day 1, not a list of things I want do. Lynching Farside Day 1 produces different endgame scenarios than lynching absta or any other player. That's why she gets her own spot on the list. The numbering/order got screwed up when I changed it around last minute for the sake of clarity, so that's my bad.

Yiley would fall into the "Any player besides absta and Farside" outcome.

The bold part doesn't make sense to me. What does Absta having four higher scum reads have anything to do with Absta not simply shying away from considering Yiley? Absta had Yiley as a null-read so it makes sense Absta would be a little concerned.

I also think you make a fine investigation target because you're the one person that's guaranteed to live through N2 with our plan.

He literally said that he thought scum was in a group of four players in which Yiley was not included. That is not a null read on Yiley. That is a

I-have-looked-at-Yiley-and-determined-that-these-four-players-are-all-scummier-than-Yiley-even-though-I-think-Yiley-is-a-horrible-player-that-I-can't-read-him-because-his-play-is-so-bad

kind of read. Even if Absta has a completely null read on Yiley, he doesn't have any business declaring that he thinks scum is in those four players. Even if Absta thinks Yiley looks somewhat scummy but doesn't want to lynch the cop, he doesn't have any business declaring that he thinks scum is in those four players.

I think I'm a fine investigation target as well. Problem is that I think the cop is scum.

---
Post broken in half just in case.

[Micc]

You are talking about PL a player. How do I analysis a wagon that is only about PL and nothing more?

You don't. You probably should in fact ignore it completely. Pretend it never happened. The important thing to remember that I can't seem to make you understand is that

mislynching Absta will not count against the number of mislynches we are allowed before we lose.

There will be other wagons besides the absta lynch. The Yiley wagon is real. You can do real wagon analysis on it. What ever lynches we make after Absta will be real. You will be able to do real wagon analysis on them assuming they don't end the game.

I think you are talking about worst case here. Where 2 scum are alive still in end game and using absta's ability if he is town. If absta is scum in a lylo all he needs is a town player to vote a town player.
The best way around that is to force absta to vote at the start a player and go from there.

Have you read his role PM? I don't know why you can't understand this and it is really getting me irritated. Yes. I am talking about worse cases here because its the easiest way to illustrate that we don't lose anything by lynching Absta. The worst case scenario is that Absta is town who is still alive in the endgame. If that is the case, then scum have a hammering power equal to [Number of scum votes left + 1]. If that hammering power is enough to control the majority of the votes left in the game then we have essentially already lost. Yes we still have the opportunity to speed wagon the scum player as soon as day opens, but its literally a race to see who gets the votes in first. I don't want it to come to that and neither should you.

I don't know why you are talking about absta being scum in Lylo, but in that situation making him vote first doesn't do anything. If a townie votes another townie absta's vote automatically flies over to hammer said townie. He is literally a scum player in the endgame no matter what his alignment card says. If he is scum that is actually good for us because then scum control one less vote in the game.

I just put up how to deal with a hammer

Making him vote first doesn't solve anything.

the worst/worst case is more if absta is town then if he is scum in lylo.

Yeah. I know. This is exactly why we want him dead before the endgame.

[Micc]

As much as I hate PrivateI for that careless vote on Yiley, and the fact that he too is a useless lurking waste of a player slot, I would still rather lynch Yiley. Yiley's meta shows such a contrast in involved-ness between scum and town that we just can't ignore it.

I intend to hammer Yiley at some point before the end of Day1.

I want a definitive stance from Brian regarding the roleblock before that happens. If day closes before he comes in I am going to assume that means he has decided to use it, and I fully intend to hold him to that.

[Micc]

I think it's still the best play. Part of me wants to lynch PrivateI for being awful, but the smart thing to do is still to lynch Absta.

I don't want that to interfere with getting some good discussion and interactions in though.

Jklash who did you try to send mail to Night 1?
Mitillos, who did you target for doc protect Night 1?
Brian, can you confirm you used the roleblock Night 1?

[Micc]

@jklash: Whom did you send a message to?
@Brian: Did you RB?
@Target of jklash: Did you receive the message? If yes, what was it?
@jklash, if the message was received: Was that your actual message?
@Me: If the message was received: Whom did I protect?

Yeah, I didn't put a whole lot of thought into it before, but I agree with the order above.

As for absta, I think we shouldn't lynch him for strategic purposes.

Let's say that our next actual lynch is PrivateI. For the purposes of analysing worst case scenarios, assume PrivateI is town (roaring guffaws) and farside is scum.
1) If we lynch absta and then PrivateI, we will be down to 6 votes, with mafia controlling 3. They win.
2) If we lynch PrivateI, we will be down to 7 votes, with both mafia and town controlling up to 4. Mafia is only two people, it's easier for both of them to act quickly, they most likely win.

So, we could lynch PrivateI today and if he is town we might lose. Our other option is to lynch absta first then PrivateI, and if they both flip town we might lose. Yet, you want to lynch PrivateI today. I don't see how that makes any sense.

[Micc]

@Micc: If farside is scum and absta is town and we lynch absta and then PrivateI and PrivateI flips town, we automatically lose, because there is no way to lynch scum; they control half the votes.
If we lynch PrivateI first and he flips town, there is still the small chance we can avoid losing on D3, by quickly voting for one of the scum, before they get to do their own thing.

Ok. So, the reason you want to limit us to using single lynch before we might lose is that we would have less of a chance of losing. Why would you not take the option to use two lynches instead of one since you have a chance at losing no matter what you do?

If absta is scum, we should look for his buddy first, if we can, in any case, since absta can't control his own vote. We have one more day of freedom, if that is the case.

Except if Absta is town and we lynch for his buddy and miss we might lose. Also, lynching for the scumbuddy is always a bad idea. Always.

Micc: who are you scum suspects?

I am suspicious of Absta because everything he says seems fake. His tone is too forceful, his confidence is too high, and it doesn't feel right.
I am suspicious of PrivateI because that hammer was bad and he is a lurking waste of a player slot. Seriously, enough time to mod a marathon game but not enough time to comment in here?
I am suspicious of Tiershift because his Day1 kind of matches the description of his own scum game that he gave me. His interactions with PrivateI end of day one could make them partners.

Who here thinks private is town and why?

I think it's a possibility he is lynchbait. He lurked bad and made a questionable hammer, clearly he is going to be a target for scum. Yiley lurked and was pretty much terrible but he still flipped town. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that PrivateI is town.

Micc: Look at the above and tell me why lynch order mater if you think both absta and private are town in any way shape or form.

The games ends if you are scum and we lynch wrong on Private. The game doesn't end if you are scum and we lynch wrong on Absta.

[Micc]

No way. If Absta is town and we lynch him then we committed to a mislynch. Who would have guessed?

I don't care if doesn't have a net gain.

It doesn't have a net loss.

Am I the only one who understands that?

We get a flip and don't lose any ground on the endgame. Its a dream come true. Why don't you people understand?

VOTE: Absta

[Micc]

UNVOTE: Absta
I guess I will shut up about policy lynching Absta since no one else is interested in removing a scum controlled vote from the game.

Hopefully I'll get on later so I can respond to some of that other stuff, but I have a lot of homework to get done so probably not.

[Micc]

I am suspicious of Absta because everything he says seems fake. His tone is too forceful, his confidence is too high, and it doesn't feel right.

So basically your read on me is gut based?
None of what you say here is scummy; How is having a forceful tone scummy? How is being confident scummy? Assuming I know i'm attacking town, shouldn't I have little confidence?

I didn't think stuff like that was scummy either until I got pegged about ten posts in to my first scum game. Playing as scum is a different mindset, and sometimes it shows in a player's tone. Your words get harsher, your ego shows through a little bit more, you have to throw in that extra little bit to make sure the people you are accusing look worse than yourself.

I am suspicious of Tiershift because his Day1 kind of matches the description of his own scum game that he gave me.

When did you notice this?

When I spent some re-evaluating this game following the Yiley flip.

Also, your confidence was too high yesterday as well. You were willing to lynch

our cop

because you thought he was 99% scum. That's scummy right? (hint: no)

I help lynch a scum read while ignoring his role, and I get crap for being confident in my reads. I try to policy lynch a negative utility role, and I get crap for playing based on roles and not reads. I don't really even know what to do in this game anymore.

If you are trying to say that advocating the lynch of a strong power role that flips town isn't scummy then I don't know how to help you. It sounds pretty scummy to me.

The games ends if you are scum and we lynch wrong on Private. The game doesn't end if you are scum and we lynch wrong on Absta.

You don't list me as scum but you are using this as a basis as okay to lynch of another player.
That's just bad logic. Why is confidence and arrogance scummy? Have you meta researched absta?

Ive tried to prove my point every way I could. Yes. If you are town we get more time than if you are scum. It doesn't change the fact that he's a negative utility role that makes us lose a day phase earlier. Hopefully what I explained above is enough to answer the question regarding confidence and arrogance. No, the one time I tried to look at some meta for Absta I struggled to find full completed games that were recent and stopped.

I am suspicious of Tiershift because his Day1 kind of matches the description of his own scum game that he gave me. His interactions with PrivateI end of day one could make them partners.

I'm seriously wondering what kind of description I gave you and how I'm exerting that here ^^

3. Self-meta, if you care for it. I can show you that this indecisiveness you find me scummy for is part of my town game. My scum game is much better than this. I don't really defend my scumbuddies either, I usually have them hanging around null-town and then tend to forget about them. I find it really difficult to speak to/about my buddy and I don't do it in the way I did to yiley here.

I usually go for the towncred hard and try to avoid doing objectively scummy things, like hopping on mislynch wagons etc.

Not sure if this is the exact reference I was thinking of, but somehow I got the impression you preferred to pick the target and push for the mislynch wholeheartedly. That seems to be a decent description of your Day1 here.

Slow day today.

Micc- I'm guessing you meant to vote absta not unvote. Do you not like the private lynch?

Do you ever have any idea what's going on?

[Micc]

I'm waiting for Micc to answer the meta question

Forgive me for not having the time or motivation to look at that right now. Maybe once this hell of a week called registration gets over with I can go back to it. I'm really not sure what you want me to look for, and don't really like putting a whole lot of stock in two year old scum games anyway so no promises.

PrivateI, lets hear some reads on players who aren't Absta.

[Micc]

That said I'm starting to read private as bad town.
*pause for effect*
I haven't played mafia in a year (give or take) but I have been reminded that players tend to be stupid are town (as I said offensive but trying to put it nicely doesn't get the point through).
I personally do not like the hammer or even Private's wording. I did a short meta dive into private as well (and when I have time I will post the links) his scum game is not idiotic in the least. I just remember that off the top of my head but links will come tomorrow with this.

Well, that's about where I am at right now too. His play has been bad, but I don't think it means he is scum. Same with jklash. I don't respect his play that much, but he has given off genuine enough town tells that I am pretty sure he is town.

Micc: I linked 2 games from absta that was from less then a year ago. Why does it matter how old the meta is anyways?
Also I asked you because you seem to be a type from what I have read that meta read players.

I like to meta read for personality and posting style. It helps me get an understanding of where players are coming from. I don't put a whole lot of stock in old games because things change.

Really? I don't get the feeling that he's getting to pick his preferred targets, but his targets do seem to match those I think scum would think as easy mislynches.

Its more of the fact that he didn't waver from Yiley one bit. He was all over the place as town in our last game.

[Micc]

I'm not doing this numbers thing again.

Mitillos wants to gamble and fall back on a hammer race in the case that we are wrong.
I'd rather play it safe and maximize the amount of lynches we get before potentially losing.

I guess its a matter of preference. The horse is already dead. I'm done beating it.

Mitillos, do you have any scum reads outside of PrivateI?

[Micc]

I cant figure out why you think Absta is a waste of a lynch. Are you that confident he is town?

[Micc]

I do think absta is town. I'm not 100% certain of course, but my read on him is what it is. However, if you think he could be scum then:

1) Make an actual case on him, instead of pushing for a strategic lynch, and
2) We should look for his partner first, in any case. If absta is scum, he has no control over his own vote, so we have more breathing space. A day of looking for his partner is a good idea.

Ok, I will get to this. Going to respond to other posts, and then come back and break down absta and explain why I think that town read is bad.

I was thinking that maybe scum wanted to keep absta alive.

Maybe it's because Absta is pretty much a third member of the scum team if he is town. Maybe scum would want to keep that player around? It would make sense now wouldn't it?

Anyway, I am glad that you are starting to understand what I have been trying to say for a day and a half. It gives me hope that we might actually have a chance at winning this one.

Every post I read from Micc is more about PL then scum hunting. I'm wanting Tier to explain that town read too.

Well, its kinda degrading to my motivation to play when I am the only person who is interested in playing optimally. Last week was also pretty busy, so I should be able to put aside more time to think about this game in the future.

Let me first get to my Micc read.

Cool. You feel about the same way about me as I feel about you. The numbers you posted regarding today's lynch are misleading and outright wrong. I can't tell if you are lying scum or if you actually believe you are right. I actually lol'ed whey you called the case on Yiley a "shitty meta tell". Like actually laughed out loud, not just chuckled in my head.

Micc, who do you actually think is scum?

Jklash is strong town. Farside is not quite as strong town. Private feels like lynchbait, but I'm not sure on that one. I like Brian's posts for the most part, but he's even less engaged in the game than I have been so it is hard to tell. Absta still feels like scum to me, possibly because he needs to die either way and confirmation bias and such. Tiershift and Mitillos are vocally against lynching Absta today which raises eyebrows for me.

When it comes down to it, I can concede that I have spent more time explaining why we need to PL Absta than find scum so far. I honestly don't think we have a chance at winning this game if we don't lynch him. Its seriously draining my motivation to play that no one else sees that.

Links? Town and scum games please.

My wiki should be up to date.

[Micc]

Going to start by breaking down Mitillos's reasons for town reading Absta.

He's been extremely active

That's hardly alignment indicative, and I think you know that.

interacting with everyone

It's not hard to do this as scum. Not hard at all.

He questions suspicious behaviour and scumhunts.

I can't say any of his "scum hunting" pushes look all that great to me. Ive said it before, and ill say it again, his questioning of suspicious behavior feels fake and over accusatory to me. I just don't believe the scum hunting is genuinely town.

His reads are fluid, but they don't follow the town's trend.

Oh really? He suspects Private, Tiershift, and myself at the moment. That's not following the town's trend? I concede that his reads were fluid Day 1, but not Day 2, and I certainly wont concede that having fluid reads is a town tell.

The only situation where I would vote him, would be if that was the optimal mislynch for town, due to his role.

He IS the optimal mislynch for town. If we are going to mislynch, we are way better off mislynching him than anyone else. Lynching town-Absta has the same affect on the endgame situation as lynching scum.

The one thing that bothers me the most about Absta has been his reluctance to discuss the merits of him being policy lynched.

I'm okay with being PL'd on the second day if it helps. I'd rather we lynch Tier or Yiley today though.

This is about the only solid comment I could find on his opinion. He questioned the logic a little bit in Day 2, but left it alone again after I responded. Gives off the impression that Absta knows its optimal play, but knows he can't afford to let it happen because he is actually scum.

I guess if he wants to update his opinion I would love to hear it.

[Micc]

Crossing my fingers that Aj will bring some sense into this town. Real post coming tomorrow afternoon.

[Micc]

I'm pretty damn sure that my numbers are correct. You are forgetting that we are at an even amount of players, which normally gets us to MyLo. With absta alive, it gets ue to LyLo in the same amount of days. You can stop thinking that you can do math and no one else can. I'm wondering what's up with the hostility btw.

All of the situations you spelled out assume a town lynch that is not Absta on Day 2. You are sidestepping the entire point. The point is that lynching town-Absta today leaves us no worse off in Day 3 than we are right now in Day 2. The hostility is because this is a no-brainer to me, and I couldn't figure out why you couldn't understand. At this point Ive convinced myself that its because you are scum.

@Micc - Answer my question. Why did you unvote me if i'm a scum read? Why aren't you voting me now?

Because it's pretty clear that it isn't happening today regardless of what my read is. You are probably town, but want you dead either way so that leads to a bit of confirmation bias. Scum want you alive so that they can win easier and the town doesn't have enough consensus to make it happen.

I guess we lynch from the pool of players who seem to be totally against lynching Absta, which would be Tiershift and Mitillos. Jklash and Farside are my strongest town reads so that's out of the question. Private would be next on my list, but I'm not crazy about the idea. I don't have a lot of feelings either way about Brian.

I probably missed a boatload of other things directed at me, but this is all I have time for right now. I will be back sometime be for the deadline to vote. My vote would be on Tiershift, but I don't think we are ready for L-1 quite yet.

[Micc]

Aj comes in and expresses thoughts that pretty much mimic my feelings about Absta at that given part of the game. Then Aj gets deadline wagoned for it. And you guys wonder why I cant find the motivation to actually care about this game.

VOTE: Absta

I'll be back after class to answer all the stuff directed at me.

[Micc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absta and AJ wagons at pseudo L-1 btw. Remember we have a hammerer.

[Micc]

Well that was a pretty terrible lynch. I want to look at Tier and Brian mostly because I'm pretty shaky on those two. Private could still go either way but my gut has been saying lynchbait all game and I highly doubt that wagon got pushed through with only one scum. Ill probably have to reread a few times. Ill probably start by looking at reads on jklash for people on the AJ wagon because there seemed to be a whole lot of ignoring the first four-fifths of the game from everybody on that wagon.

[Micc]

@Micc

Well that was a pretty terrible lynch. I want to look at Tier and Brian mostly because I'm pretty shaky on those two. Private could still go either way but my gut has been saying lynchbait all game and I highly doubt that wagon got pushed through with only one scum. Ill probably have to reread a few times. Ill probably start by looking at reads on jklash for people on the AJ wagon because there seemed to be a whole lot of ignoring the first four-fifths of the game from everybody on that wagon.

So basically you have no scum reads?

Yeah, sure, pretty much.
If I point out that this is your scummy *sling scummyness on everyone else tone* will I get insta-lynched like Aj did?

In other news, farside is kind of freaking me out with this whole Tiershift thing. I think Tier might be scum, but its not because he has wishy washy reads, or because he doesn't have scum reads. I will re-iterate that Tier was all over the place in the game I played with him as town. Read the last day of that game if you really have any doubt.

I skimmed through the ISO's for Tier, Brian, Farside, and Absta and it turns out the trajectory on jklash was a lot more natural than I remembered off the top of my head. The only one that I really question is Tiershift who had jklash at the most likely to be scum within his townreads (591) prior to jklash's replacement. I want to go back and analyze the Yiley wagon at some point too, but I won't have time to get around to it tonight.

[Micc]

I'm passioniate when I think someone is scum and I feel no one is listening.
I don't know why wishy washy or his lack of scum reads makes him seem anything but scum.
What is your scum read more about?

Because town can be wishy washy and not have scum reads too?

My suspicion has to do with wagon analysis and his complete dismissal of Absta as a possible lynch.

The way I see it, if Tier is town, scum would vote him now, seeing as me and Farside both want him dead.

You know what, i'm super confident Tier is scum. Fucking kill him NOW!

Farside you can vote him. If Tier was town, scum would be helping us push his lynch hard. No one is doing that, therefore he is scum.

Im pretty sure this is not the proper way to handle LyLo. Why are you in such a hurry?

I want micc to come in here and talk.

I am kinda here for the next hour or so. What do you want to talk about?

[Micc]

My suspicion has to do with wagon analysis and his complete dismissal of Absta as a possible lynch.

Can you share your wagon analysis with us?

Yiley (6) TierShift, jklash12, farside22, PrivateI, absta101

Well, you are on this town lynch wagon....

Aj The Epic (5) Brian Skies, farside22, absta101, TierShift

and this town lynch wagon. Second one is more important that the first mostly because I thought your transition to the Aj wagon was the least believable out of the bunch. Admittedly the entire playerlist was on board with the Yiley lynch be the time it went through, myself included.

How did I dismiss absta as a lynch? By having a townread on him? Why do you think I as scum wouldn't leave all options open?

Do I need to go dig up the pile of Day1 quotes of you supporting an Absta PL by Day2? Should I point out the 180 degree flip you made once Day2 came? Should I pull up all the quotes that make me roll my eyes at you trying to suggest he is your townread?

I don't think I should have to answer why you as scum would want to keep him alive. Keeping your options open completely fails in comparison to ending the game a day earlier because of the continued existence of a negative utility role.

What do you think of PrI?

My gut said lynchbait for most of the game. Thankfully he is finally being replaced, which I think is a good thing. None of Private's posts are all that memorable to me. I would be interested in hearing everyone's reasons for scumreading him because I see more terribly anti-town play than scum play. To be fair, I have not yet gone through his ISO since day3 started, but it is in my plans to do at some point.

I want everyone but farside and absta to tell me why they have a townread on them two.

I don't have a town read on Absta.
I don't have a town read on Farside any longer.

[Micc]

Phone post so no quotes.

Tier, Farside townread broke down with her coming out of the gates firing on day3. Doesn't feel right compared to the careful, cautious playstyle saw in day 1. Feels a little bit much like scum trying to wrap up a win as quickly as possible. Really, at this point town should be stepping back, analyzing the whole game and figuring things out. I guess her day3 feels rushed. Besides that, its LyLo which means its time to consider rethink the things I thought previously.

Im just going to go ahead and agree with most everything Brian said in that last post.

Anyway, im home from school for the holiday and i probably wont be getting around to this again while im here.

Mod, could i have V/LA until Monday?

[Micc]

I hope you realise that farside is confirmed town at this stage unless you think i'm scum. She can't be scum with anyone but me or she would've ended the game already.

I hope you realize that I am not convinced you are town.

Mic: have you checked my meta?

No, I havent. Get this silly idea that I am a meta player out of your head. I havent even read this thread as thoroughly as I would like much less get out and read other games.

[Micc]

How is it rushed? I haven't voted and I even stated the following comment: here

Spoiler:

I think tier is scum still. Don't know about the other. I'm starting to wonder if private is pretending stupid, mic has done nothing but tunnel and talk about pl absta and brain at least is talking about his thought.

Meh then read the game micc linked

I just don't know what you're attacking me on, but if it's inconsistency with my town meta, you're dead wrong.

*ticks of reasons why Tier is scum*

1. Wishy washy reads (why would that be town?)
2. no scum reads currently (no strong course of reads on anyone apparently). No this is not town. If so how.
3. Called AJ's play an example of how he plays as scum, but didn't vote for him and used the words could play manipulative as possible town, but unsure. If a player you have played with plays a certain way as scum the doubt of the play makes no sense.


Your reason's for finding anyone in this game scum is????

You know what, i'm super confident Tier is scum. Fucking kill him NOW!

Farside you can vote him. If Tier was town, scum would be helping us push his lynch hard. No one is doing that, therefore he is scum.

I'm trying to figure out the other scum. I'm currently torn because there is so much lurking, lack of passion, lack of anything coming from some people.
I want to look into one thing before I finish today out.

Oh and by the way even if I voted it would not be a hammer vote. It takes 4 to lynch, not 3.

Your mind is made up. You don't want any other lynch besides Tiershift today. Any scum hunting you are doing is aimed at finding the second scum.

That doesn't sit well with me. This is Lylo, the time to take extra care reflecting on the game and getting it right, not the time to follow the preconceived reads that helped get us into this shitty situation.

[Micc]

@Tier, I want the chance to talk through this with you.

Lets start with your reads. I haven't seen any definitive stance on reads in day 3, but I am inferring that you think Absta and Far is a string possibility. Is that right? What are the other possibilities you are considering?

-----
@Absta, could you maybe do something protown and direct me to why you think Tier is scum again? Either a quote or another explanation works. Cant seem to find anything on first glance

[Micc]

Problems from my end mean that

My Milked Eek now properly replaces PrivateI.

Didn't get a reply to my replacing in pm until now.

I asked the mod for a one day extension on the deadline, but he declined.

Surely, if this is what really happened then a small extension would be reasonable. I understand it is N's decision to make, but I would like to hear it from him and not another player.

Mod, can you confirm in thread that there will be no deadline extension due the PM mix up between you and My Milked Eek?

[Micc]

@Tier, I want the chance to talk through this with you.

Lets start with your reads. I haven't seen any definitive stance on reads in day 3, but I am inferring that you think Absta and Far is a string possibility. Is that right? What are the other possibilities you are considering?

I hope you can take from my most recent posts that I think it's absta/farside. I've stated a few posts back that I still need to check up on PrI/Eek and thus are not forgetting the possibility they are scum with absta.

I'm not sure what the best argument is I can give for them being scum. One thing that stood out was the way absta changed the cop investigation target. But most of all, the way they are handling LyLo is horrific and so scummy.

It bothers me that you don't have any paranoia about me being scum after our last game. What do you see that is different between the two games?

I'm town reading absta the case on him is what?

That he spent Day1 suggesting that everyone and their mom was scummy. His tone

was

still is slanderous, like scum who needs to make all their accusations as harsh as possible to make them more believable.
Day2 he didn't do a single thing that was memorable except for help get AJ lynched.
Day3 has consisted on him trolling around calling Tiershift scum and ignoring multiple questions asked of him.
He is still alive, despite being a negative utility role. Obviously scum are working to keep him alive.

meek

If this is you trying to write my name, please take care to never screw it up that badly again. If not, I don't understand the sentence one bit.

That leaves you and pi/now meek. So......tell me how any of that thought process is scummy?

You decided that all over night 2 before the night-kill was even revealed?
You decided it less than 24 hours into Day 3, and after the night-kill was revealed?

Either way the process happened too fast. Literally no attempt to look back at the game and figure it out. It looks like scum trying to rush her win along. Absta came out doing the exact same thing. The only difference is that he is making it more obvious.

[Micc]

@Absta, could you maybe do something protown and direct me to why you think Tier is scum again? Either a quote or another explanation works. Cant seem to find anything on first glance

[Micc]

That doesn't explain why you thought he was scum in the first place. I have looked through your ISO a few times. I can't find anything that explains to me why Tier is scummy. Just a whole lot of you reminding us how you feel. Either go back and quote it, or spell it out again for me.

Preferably you would quote it. Might go towards helping me believe you are town if I think it is genuine and makes sense.

[Micc]

Lets start from Day 1. None of what you are describing is scummy. No player but scum know alignments. I know players that treat everyone like scum till proven otherwise. How is his tone scummy? Being slanderous, again I'm that way as well so this point is invalid.
Now explain how it is scummy
Day 2: Pot kettle: What did you do all of day 2 but talk about policy lynching a player. So really hypocritcal is not in my wheel house
Day 3: What questions did he ignore? So what that he calls Tier scum. He has been calling Tier scum since day fucking 1.

Its about reading people based on their thoughts and their mindset as opposed to their actions. Its pretty clear that he has been trying to pile scummyness on to other people all game. Read through his ISO. Look for analysis and critical thinking and see if you can find any. There isn't a whole lot of it to be found. Just a whole bunch of "omg these people are scum lets lynch them".

Re Day 2: Point taken. I regret not being around to stop that shitty lynch on Aj quite a bit right now.
Re Day 3: Did you not see him just avoid explaining his Tiershift scum read twice in a row? A few ohter things that I have addressed at him have also gone ignored. Not that I care anymore. I don't expect straightforward answers from him at this point.

No it is not for you, it is My Milk Eek. I like to say Meek because I find it funny and I think of Phinas and Ferb.

ok that makes sense

I think Tier is scum since day 2. A night kill of a doc I had a town read doesn't change that.
Yes.
Now I'm asking why you find is scummy because I noticed in a game you were town there was a Mislynch Lose and a player voted for another player they thought was scummy before a discussion and that player was town. So I ask again why is someone I thought and still think is scum from day 2, scummy today?
Especially when you think that player is scummy too?

You thought he was scummy in day two and when Lylo came you decided to keep thinking that without ever going back and re analyzing? That's not the kind of player I think you are. It doesn't add up to me.

First off, that game was in Mylo. No quickhammer was coming with one vote. Also, have you ever played with Guyett? He is like the biggest loose cannon on this site. Of course he voted straight away. He also quickhammered scum-Thor less than 48 hours after Day 3 opened in that game.

Spoiler:

Perhaps you should do some meta work on me...

Is "loose cannon who has no problems screwing around in MyLo as town" a bad discription of your meta. Because thats how I understand it.

Its pretty close tbh.

Guyett is a different person than you are. Don't try to tell me otherwise.

[Micc]

All this doesn't even matter anymore, Tier is confirmed scum to me.

Pardon me for not caring who is confirmed whatever to you. You aren't confirmed anything to me so it doesn't mean shit. I'm not impressed with that case that you pulled up about tier, and I remember feeling the same way when I first read it.

Micc: you stated you have not meta me so how do you know what type of player I am.

I played days 1 and 2 with you. That means way more to me than anything I could have looked up outside of this game.

Also at micc: what would you call tiers actions of thinking on day two and day one scum reads?

Say what?

Sorry for the triple post:

Micc: who are your scum pairs and why?

Vaguely in order of most to least viable...
Absta & Farside
Tier & Eek/Brian
Absta & Brian
Absta & Tier
Eek & Brian

I really hate thinking in terms of teams without having a single scum flip, so I really only am doing this because you asked. Explanation wise, I'm not sure what you want. Absta & Farside together because its the only way Farside can be scum and I'm parinoid about her Day3 play. Tier isn't exactly convincing me he's town but I don't see an obvious partner, but think Eek and Brian would be most likely. The ohter ones are possibilities I'm not ruling out quite yet. I especially what to go back and look at Brian because I am paranoid and haven't really done that yet.

planning on being back tonight to look at this again. I know I am hardly in a position to criticize, but Eek, seriously get in here and talk about something. Opinions on Absta/Tier/Farside would be helpful. Preferably something more than an ISO gut read.

[Micc]

Then, there's the fact that [Micc is] manipulating me and I wrote up a paragraph about this and it was all incomprehensive so I deleted it. Just trust me here.

Tier, can you explain what you meant about me manipulating you?

[Micc]

Well, I'm glad this one is finally over. I don't think its any secret that I had a hard time getting invested in this game. I thought I would enjoy the smalltown format a lot more than I did. When it came down to it I never felt comfortable because I couldn't ignore the roles enough to scumhunt properly. I thought the setup was really well done, and the modding was excellent, so great job N. (I wouldn't have given us those deadline extensions either. We were pretty lurkey all the way around.)

I was almost certainly voting absta today, so there isn't really any regret there. If Eek kept up the active lurking I might have switched there, but who knows. I don't think we were ever getting Brian, even though I kinda had feelings it might be him. Either way Brian played well and earned that win. I wasn't really sure what to do with Farside by the end. I probably would have shrugged off the stuff I saw early day three if she wouldn't have gotten so defensive about it. I wish I would have been stronger with my Tiershift read. I let other players' reads effect my own, and ended up suspecting him despite not really knowing why.

Kind of silly the way we ended up with four townies pointing fingers at each other at the end. I suppose it means scum played well, and we didn't. Congrats to Brian and Eek. Thanks again for the game N!