Micro 310: Shitty Joke Smalltown II (game over)

[N]

Vote Count 2.10

Mitillos

(0)

Micc

(1) TierShift

absta101

(2)

PrivateI, Aj The Epic

farside22

(0)

PrivateI

(2)

Mitillos, absta101

Brian Skies

(0)

TierShift

(2)

farside22

Aj The Epic

(0)

Not Voting

(2) Brian Skies, Micc

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-04-10 21:55:07)

V/LA:

farside22 on weekends, Mitillos until Friday

[Brian Skies]

Brain: multiple thoughts about players. He has thoughts he shares (I can link the post later if need be) and it has a flow that you can follow.

Not sure what you're insinuating about me in this line.

I guess we lynch from the pool of players who seem to be totally against lynching Absta, which would be Tiershift and Mitillos.

I'm pretty sure I've been as adamantly against lynching Absta as Mit has. And what about Mit has rubbed you the wrong way (other than being completely against your Absta PL)?

Removed from my town pile.

Since when have I been a townread? I thought I was in the null to scum range for you.

I was busy the last few days. Had to devote my attention to other places. And had an exam today that I spent all of Monday studying for. This game was put tentatively on the back burner.

@Micc

- I looked at one of Yiley's town games and he played roughly the same there as he is here. So I don't feel comfortable calling him scum for his

completely fucking shit

playstyle.
As for the rest of you. You look increasingly scummy with every post you make. Your whole scum hunting seems fake, especially the questions aimed at farside. Tier is just terribly scummy at this point as well because he's only seemed to find one person scummy (private) who hasn't even been posting anything. It seems to me that he's scared of calling people scummy so he doesn't have to commit. That explains his vote on private and why he uses terms like "so that sucks" to describe scummy play.

I can see myself lynching you at the end of the day at this point though.

I'm traveling slow because college work trumps all on Tuesday/Thursday but I'll get an easy ten pages today. I think. Here's the first scum this game, Absta... most likely coupled with brian, at least by this post. Brian's lurking/general disinterest in actual discussion was disheartening to say the least, but absta commits a few flaws here I recognize from mafia theory...

First off, the complete bullshit dis. The whole town is "scummy" and Yiley has a "shit playstyle". Alright, so we've covered all the ground for the "I'm superior by your lack of ability" attitude in two lines? Calls tier scum on, from looking back, complete lies. More importantly, Tier had been the most recent speaker in most of the previous posts NOT made by Absta, which should require a first person interaction AFTER the introduction. However, Absta only talks about Tier. The issue being scum will talk ABOUT and AROUND their opponents, even when engaged in discussion. 189 was tier's general post, 190 Absta states that "This is why tier is prob scum", not addressing a specific part of the post but the whole post. Tier responds again, but Absta's next post (the one quoted) still does not address tier in first person.

So Absta, care to explain? Yes, it's a tad far back but you did make the comments. You should still remember what you meant and please specify something... Anything. Specifically, what you saw that made everyone else "increasingly scummy" and how that post (189 for your reference) made tier scum.

Without further ado,

Unvote

:

Vote: Absta

@Brian, please don't wait... I might not finish today, and if where I am is any indication (you got prodded, came back and posted on irrelevance to people's play), you've been lurking hard. The more I see of you, the better... Posting something worth while reading so I don't get the impulse "Scum ignoring game" reaction would be nice.

I remember this post from Absta. I told him I didn't think it held any water.

I'm still have the same general opinion regarding the parts about Tier's choice of language. But as the game goes on, I agree with Absta that it seems as though Tier has been attacking people that seem to be easier to scumread. Except he's shown a lack of interest in your slot.

I also didn't care how much you were able to catch up before deadline. I just noticed Jklash got replaced and didn't want to write the words "prod dodge" at the time.

Showing arrogance here when no one comes at him for his arrogance is just as much him obtaining an untouchable position as him actually posting well from a psychological standpoint. The reason being is no one ever challenged him when he defaced the whole lot of you so easily.

In other words, this is a basic (Very basic... Doesn't even WORK with most groups) tactic by scum to establish themselves as a 'superior component' of the town. The 'untouchable' status is very real, I just pulled it on tier last game. Not only that, his play is dramatically different from last game where he was an SK. I'm good enough to notice his positive play and compare it to his SK play, recognizing an enormous difference.

I don't understand why I should have challenged him on him being arrogant. I deal with that shit in my games on a regular basis. And I don't think it's ever been alignment indicative.

I also don't remember Absta putting himself down as untouchable status. If he has, please point it out.

Your argument that Absta has reached a kind of 'untouchable status' because no one has decided to push him for his arrogance makes no sense to me. This is something that is based on our play, not his, so why does it make Absta scummy?

Anti-town is not always mean scummy. Anti-town is simply anti-town. Like Private.

Yeah, but sometimes anti-town deserves to die at some point.

@Tier: Why so fidgety? The worse that can happen is one of us gets lynched... My flip won't hurt your credibility, would yours hurt me? You don't have to understand nor agree with my reads. However, it was your interaction with him in which I saw the cue to start digging deeper. That's the extent of your importance here.

Not sure why, but this made me twitch.

I'm actually feeling a lot more tepid about Tier based on what's happened since Aj's entrance and would rather go here.

VOTE: AJ

[TierShift]

VOTE: private[/v
I think this is the lymch I want today.

[farside22]

Brain: multiple thoughts about players. He has thoughts he shares (I can link the post later if need be) and it has a flow that you can follow.

Not sure what you're insinuating about me in this line.

town read

UNVOTE: Tier
VOTE: AJ

VOTE: private[/v
I think this is the lymch I want today.

Wow that wishy washy stance on Private, who didn't see that vote coming!

[Micc]

Aj comes in and expresses thoughts that pretty much mimic my feelings about Absta at that given part of the game. Then Aj gets deadline wagoned for it. And you guys wonder why I cant find the motivation to actually care about this game.

VOTE: Absta

I'll be back after class to answer all the stuff directed at me.

[Micc]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Absta and AJ wagons at pseudo L-1 btw. Remember we have a hammerer.

[farside22]

Aj comes in and expresses thoughts that pretty much mimic my feelings about Absta at that given part of the game. Then Aj gets deadline wagoned for it. And you guys wonder why I cant find the motivation to actually care about this game.

VOTE: Absta

I'll be back after class to answer all the stuff directed at me.

That reason is crappy and a bunch of null.
Just because you got caught once with it as a tell does not make it a tell for every person you run across.

[farside22]

Actually I'm going to

FOS: Mic

on that. Not bothering to check meta on absta and using a tell without meta research is something I would expect better from a player that reads others meta.
2 year or 6 months meta still has meaning. Is he arrogant in the past should have been a factor and is one that Micc pretty much refused to consider.

[absta101]

VOTE: Aj

Time to die my friend.

L-1

[farside22]

Should I point out that the case that Aj post is not anything he ever has post in another game. A player with a superior sense of self as a scum tell is no where to be found as a scum tell for him.
Or should I point out that jklash claimed he

Mod: I would like to replace out. I had a busy week and got behind on this game.

But sure as shit has no issue sign up and playing other games. Either way by the by town or scum I will personally ban players who replace out of game and sign in for other games here.
just point that more out as a personal peeve.

[TierShift]

Ok I'm calling micc and AJ not to be a team.

I just have this feeling that my reads here are horrible.

As it looks I hold the hammer I'm gonna check up once again on both jklash/AJ and absta and make my decision.

[farside22]

*psst* Tier
Hammer your scum buddy. You don't have to pretend to find a case just for me you know.

[TierShift]

I'm not doing a case. I'm just hammering whoever I think has more chance of flipping scum.

It's just, I'm quite against deadline wagons and I don't think AJ's strong manipulative stances would make much sense as a scum replacement.

Then again I have a sort of townread on absta.

And there's some voice in the back of my head saying there's probably scum between the two.

[absta101]

If i'm a town read why are you even contemplating voting me?

[TierShift]

Because there is something about you that is not right

And I don't know what

No necessarily something bad, could be your style

I hate the wagon on you tho.

[farside22]

I'm not doing a case. I'm just hammering whoever I think has more chance of flipping scum.

It's just, I'm quite against deadline wagons and I don't think AJ's strong manipulative stances would make much sense as a scum replacement.

Then again I have a sort of townread on absta.

And there's some voice in the back of my head saying there's probably scum between the two.

Fine I'll be nice for a second and ask a couple of questions.

Does it make sense to have a case on something you have never believed it or have no reason's in your past to have that thought process and be town?
Does it make sense for a player that feels a player is scum because he has seen it as scum?
Which makes more sense for a player to be thinking that is town?
Which one is more likely then not?

On another question: Obvious AJ has played with you before what was he like in the game you 2 played together?

[TierShift]

I cannot make sense of the first 4 questions.

I played with AJ once, here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35974. He was scum and I was the only one reading him correctly, but I was third party. I can't read him based on meta or something tho.

I think he's being quite manipulative here which he did in the scumgame but might do as town as well.

[farside22]

I cannot make sense of the first 4 questions.

I played with AJ once, here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=35974. He was scum and I was the only one reading him correctly, but I was third party. I can't read him based on meta or something tho.

I think he's being quite manipulative here which he did in the scumgame but might do as town as well.

Simply put from your own prospective.
Have you ever found someone scummy based on an action that you never thought was scummy before?

meta search:

aj's scum game
scum game

town game
town replaced out

I sorta of see a few things that stand out. I see from town games more standard things I expect players to find scummy. Not taking stances for one. He sure is good as scum, I'll give him points on that.

Second question: If he was manipulative as scum in a game you were in why would you question his behavior and entrance in the game here?

[farside22]

Tier: Which town game did you see AJ being manipulative?

[absta101]

7 hours left.

@Mod - Could you give the players a friendly prod to tell them the day is nearly over please.

[farside22]

Why couldn't have been a triple voter this game.
Sigh

[Brian Skies]

Fine I'll be nice for a second and ask a couple of questions.

I know these aren't directed at me but I feel like answering them since Tier doesn't even understand what they mean.

Does it make sense to have a case on a) something you have never believed it or b) have no reason's in your past to have that thought process and be town?

a) To some degree, yes. I hold the firm expectation that players should (but not always) evolve as players. They will continuously be looking to improve and it's possible for them to develop new scum-tells or change their mafia philosophy. Especially for newer players.
b) If they have shown a strong aversion to believing their own case in the past and lack proper reasoning to change their said belief, then no. It's scummy. A lot of people are stubborn about their ideals, and the longer one plays, the harder it is to change the way they look at the game.

Does it make sense for a player that feels a player is scum because he has seen it as scum?

No idea. But I'll take it a step further and admit that I've taken things I've seen myself do as scum and used them as scum-tells against other players (to moderate success).

But in my opinion, seeing a particular person do something as scum is more of a meta tell.

Which makes more sense for a player to be thinking that is town?

This question needs clarification.

Which one is more likely then not?

I just haven't liked his posting in general since coming in. And I'm still peeved Jklash replaced out without ever answering my question.

I'm also having concerns that Tier and Aj could be a team, but I'm more concerned about Aj being lone scum WK'ing Tier than the other way around.

[farside22]

@Brian:

This game has a day start.
All roles are listed below. These roles will be assigned using a draft.
Alignments will be randomized after roles have been picked, but will not be assigned until after everyone has picked a role. This game is not guaranteed to be balanced.
There will be 7 town and 2 mafia players.
We’re testing out the Private Topics on site!
Mafia have daytalk.

I wasn't sure if you were saying there was one scum but I felt the need to point it out because that was how I read your last comment.

a) To some degree, yes. I hold the firm expectation that players should (but not always) evolve as players. They will continuously be looking to improve and it's possible for them to develop new scum-tells or change their mafia philosophy. Especially for newer players.
b) If they have shown a strong aversion to believing their own case in the past and lack proper reasoning to change their said belief, then no. It's scummy. A lot of people are stubborn about their ideals, and the longer one plays, the harder it is to change the way they look at the game.

evolve, yes.
I never saw a player come up with a theory out of the blue for no reason.
Usually if you think something is scummy or you have a reason for thinking something is scummy is either (a) you watched a game and saw it happen (b) you played in a game where it happed or (c) there are examples you have looked through to see if the idea is valid
I tend to have a, b a lot and think c is something people should do but don't do.

See my probably with Aj's reason for finding absta scummy I see no reason he should have that theory. No game he played or case he made that used that analogy.
I have see people who use language tells before (really hate the term) but this is more wordy without making a valid argument on why it is scummy. I don't care if you had a BA in advance human pysch I would still call it a shit case.

[PrivateI]

Second question: If he was manipulative as scum in a game you were in why would you question his behavior and entrance in the game here?

What are you asking here? For the life of me, I don't get it.

[Brian Skies]

I wasn't sure if you were saying there was one scum but I felt the need to point it out because that was how I read your last comment.

Haha, no. I was saying that if there was only 1 scum between the two of them, I thought it would be more likely to be Jklash.

I don't care if you had a BA in advance human pysch I would still call it a shit case.

This is the main reason why I'm suspecting that slot (along with the strong defense of Tier's slot since coming in). Everything before that is just "meh I'm not an expert in the human psyche" to me.