Micro 310: Shitty Joke Smalltown II (game over)

[Brian Skies]

@Brian: Do you agree to use your power on N1, or do you believe that it would be best to use it later? Will your answer change depending on today's lynch?

I will use my ability based on how I feel it can best be used towards my wincon. I think using it N1 is most beneficial for keeping the cop alive and not lynching Absta for purely PL purposes (as well as for the sake of using it before I die).

I don't know if my answer will change based on today's lynch because the only reason I would use it on a different day is if a) the even-night cop is no longer around to be protected (in which case I can now use my ability on even nights) and b) I feel the ability can be better used later on in the game.

Using it Night 1 still looks like a logical choice to me.

1. Lynch absta

I'm not interested in lynching somebody I think is town just because their role is deemed negative utility. Absta's posting reads townish and it looks like he's seriously trying to find scum. I'd rather try and find the scum-team before he becomes a liability than just lynching him for PL purposes. However, I understand the concern over the role but I'd rather deal with it if it actually becomes an issue (Day 2) than not trying to lynch scum today.

2. Lynch a player who isn't absta or Farside
3. Lynch Farside

Why do you want to lynch Farside? And why isn't Yiley mentioned in your list considering you want to lynch him today?

I'm not quite sure how this question relates, but yes I could understand why town would be nervous about potentially mislynching a known investigative role. No, I don't think that's why absta was shying away from considering Yiley as possible scum. I was linking them together as a possible scumteam in my head.

Either way it is pretty clear that absta wasn't simply shying away from considering Yiley for scum because of his role as a cop. If that was the case absta would not have four other players as higher scum reads.

I asked that question because Yiley is an investigative role and I was wondering if you think it could have been a reason for Absta to shy away from the lynch instead of having to be Yiley's scumbuddy.

The bold part doesn't make sense to me. What does Absta having four higher scum reads have anything to do with Absta not simply shying away from considering Yiley? Absta had Yiley as a null-read so it makes sense Absta would be a little concerned.

I also think you make a fine investigation target because you're the one person that's guaranteed to live through N2 with our plan.



----------
I like Farside's recent posts. Her feelings about the Absta lynch resonate with me quite a bit.

Also, I'm not reading the numbers you guys keep throwing in the thread. They're confusing and can be manipulated.

I stated in my 'case' on Tier.

I'm not interested in Tier right now. I don't find him particularly scummy and I don't think your case on him holds any water.

To be completely honest, I'd rather lynch PrivateI or Yiley, at this point. Both have lurked the game away and I'm not seeing much in the way of scumminess from the other players, yet.

In fact, PrivateI has basically only really talked about Yiley. As farside pointed out, he hasn't given any scumreads. He's been sitting on his RV and his biggest contributions were to 1) sort of suggest a no-lynch and 2) defend Yiley, without even giving a read on him, until much later (111 posts and 5 days later, to be precise).

So, my preferential lynch order is PrivateI > Yiley > absta (only for strategic purposes) > anyone else.

I like this. Even if PrivateI would flip town, we would at worst lose a vote. But we'd still have a town voice. I don't even know if anyone is townreading PrivateI right now, but if we were to compromise lynch, this would be my choice.

Also, I'm opposed to PL'ing Absta unless we have to.

I'm still nervous about lynching the cop, but he has yet to come in and town-post despite telling us he would come in and do it (and none of his posting thus far looks town). I'm okay with moving over to his wagon if I have to.

VOTE: PrivateI

[Brian Skies]

I missed a post.

Ayway, I'm not getting on board with a PrivateI lynch, since that would really be only because he's lurking (which is not alignment indicative). In yiley's case, the lurking and refusing to get involved ís alignment indicative.
Pri=lurker yiley=scum.

I thought you guys said his lurking wasn't alignment indicative.

What's your read on PrivateI?

[N]

Prodding Yiley

Vote Count 1.09

Mitillos

(0)

Micc

(0)

absta101

(1) PrivateI

farside22

(0)

PrivateI

(2)

Mitillos, Brian Skies

Brian Skies

(2)

farside22

TierShift

(2)

Yiley, absta101

Yiley

(2)

TierShift, jklash12

jklash12

(0)

Not Voting

(1) Micc

With 10 votes in play, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2014-03-26 23:10:08)

V/LA:

farside22 on weekends

[farside22]

Do you know how to analysis a wagon with no flip of said player?

I don't even know what you are trying to say. We get flips when people get lynched. There is no reason we wouldn't get a flip on the player we lynched. I'm pretty sure that's not what you are trying to say, but that's what I am reading no matter how I look at it.

You are talking about PL a player. How do I analysis a wagon that is only about PL and nothing more?

So your pushing a policy lynch over a scum lynch because?????

Because policy lynching absta is essentially lynching scum no matter what alignment he is. When he is dead, scum have one less vote that they can use to endgame the town. If by chance he flips scum then its a bonus - we essentially removed two votes that scum could have used to endgame the town.

I'm not sure how many more different ways I can try to explain that we don't lose anything by lynching absta. The amount of mislynches that we get this game depends on whether you are town, and whether you get nightkilled at some point. I cant really say what that number is, but I can say that lynching absta will not lower the number no matter what he flips.[/quote]

I think you are talking about worst case here. Where 2 scum are alive still in end game and using absta's ability if he is town. If absta is scum in a lylo all he needs is a town player to vote a town player.
The best way around that is to force absta to vote at the start a player and go from there.

Dude that logic true of any lynch. Your using a role and not scum hunting. That is not going to fly in my world. You want to lynch absta off of PL don't ask me to be onboard. I would rather lynch scum.

Hopefully I have explained it to the point that it makes sense by now. Lynching absta is as good as guaranteed scum lynch even if he flips town. I'm not saying that we are going to win this game by looking at the role PM's and breaking the game. Yes, we will need to scum hunt and lynch scum once absta is gone. But for now the best course of action is to lynch the negative utility role before it can hurt us in the end game.

Absta needs to be lynched Day2 at the very latest, otherwise it might be too late. Since Yiley is a stronger scum read than absta or anyone else I think he should be lynched today. This way Absta gets to live longer and have more of an impact than Yiley. That means we lynch absta Day 2. The only way we don't is if Brian agrees to use the roleblock but doesn't use it. In that case he is confirmed scum and we lynch him.

[/quote]

No. If we lynch scum day 1 then I would be saying no even stronger. I just put up how to deal with a hammer and the worst/worst case is more if absta is town then if he is scum in lylo.

The reason is that, just as a town hammerer can be manipulated by scum, a scum hammerer can be manipulated by the town.

Are you suggesting that in the situation day 3 with 0 scum lynched with absta alive, town should quicklynch before scum get the opportunity to? Doesn't seem like a good strategy.

Ayway, I'm not getting on board with a PrivateI lynch, since that would really be only because he's lurking (which is not alignment indicative). In yiley's case, the lurking and refusing to get involved ís alignment indicative.
Pri=lurker yiley=scum.


Can you please vote yiley, we're getting dangerously close to deadline.

Agreed.

unvote:
vote: Yiley

[TierShift]

I thought you guys said his lurking wasn't alignment indicative.

What's your read on PrivateI?

I have no idea who the first sentence refers to. To the second, null.

Farside stop messing up quotes pls.

[farside22]

I thought you guys said his lurking wasn't alignment indicative.

What's your read on PrivateI?

I have no idea who the first sentence refers to. To the second, null.

Farside stop messing up quotes pls.

Sorry.
I'm a bit rushed when I'm at work so it's post and don't review for me some days.

[N]

All right, I'm hoping that Yiley is scum since I don't think anyone else is going to get wagoned this close to deadline. Keep in mind that he is now at L-2.

VOTE: Yiley

fixed vote tag per request
~N

[PrivateI]

Mod, I suck at vote tags. Can you edit the previous post?

[Micc]

Tiershift and jklash on Yiley already, plus farside is a double voter, plus PrivateI, plus absta as the hammerer. So that's six and a hammer if it counts. I have a post half way typed up and if this day ends before I get it out I'm going to be a little upset.

[Micc]

I will use my ability based on how I feel it can best be used towards my wincon. I think using it N1 is most beneficial for keeping the cop alive and not lynching Absta for purely PL purposes (as well as for the sake of using it before I die).

I don't know if my answer will change based on today's lynch because the only reason I would use it on a different day is if a) the even-night cop is no longer around to be protected (in which case I can now use my ability on even nights) and b) I feel the ability can be better used later on in the game.

Using it Night 1 still looks like a logical choice to me.

One of two things need to happen here:
1. You need to announce that you are using it for sure on Night 1. This way we know you lied to us if there is a night kill, and we can lynch you accordingly.
2. You need to explain to us why you want to hold on to the power. If you plan is conditional depending on the lynch you need to explain why that's the best plan of attack, and what action you will take in every possible outcome. You should get this done pretty quickly because the deadline is coming up pretty quick.

I am not accepting a wishy washy plan of attack regarding this roleblock. Say what you are going to do, say why you are going to do it, and do what you say you are going to do.

I'm not interested in lynching somebody I think is town just because their role is deemed negative utility. Absta's posting reads townish and it looks like he's seriously trying to find scum. I'd rather try and find the scum-team before he becomes a liability than just lynching him for PL purposes. However, I understand the concern over the role but I'd rather deal with it if it actually becomes an issue (Day 2) than not trying to lynch scum today.

Cool. I agree.

Why do you want to lynch Farside? And why isn't Yiley mentioned in your list considering you want to lynch him today?

Because its a list that encompasses all possible outcomes of Day 1, not a list of things I want do. Lynching Farside Day 1 produces different endgame scenarios than lynching absta or any other player. That's why she gets her own spot on the list. The numbering/order got screwed up when I changed it around last minute for the sake of clarity, so that's my bad.

Yiley would fall into the "Any player besides absta and Farside" outcome.

The bold part doesn't make sense to me. What does Absta having four higher scum reads have anything to do with Absta not simply shying away from considering Yiley? Absta had Yiley as a null-read so it makes sense Absta would be a little concerned.

I also think you make a fine investigation target because you're the one person that's guaranteed to live through N2 with our plan.

He literally said that he thought scum was in a group of four players in which Yiley was not included. That is not a null read on Yiley. That is a

I-have-looked-at-Yiley-and-determined-that-these-four-players-are-all-scummier-than-Yiley-even-though-I-think-Yiley-is-a-horrible-player-that-I-can't-read-him-because-his-play-is-so-bad

kind of read. Even if Absta has a completely null read on Yiley, he doesn't have any business declaring that he thinks scum is in those four players. Even if Absta thinks Yiley looks somewhat scummy but doesn't want to lynch the cop, he doesn't have any business declaring that he thinks scum is in those four players.

I think I'm a fine investigation target as well. Problem is that I think the cop is scum.

---
Post broken in half just in case.

[Micc]

You are talking about PL a player. How do I analysis a wagon that is only about PL and nothing more?

You don't. You probably should in fact ignore it completely. Pretend it never happened. The important thing to remember that I can't seem to make you understand is that

mislynching Absta will not count against the number of mislynches we are allowed before we lose.

There will be other wagons besides the absta lynch. The Yiley wagon is real. You can do real wagon analysis on it. What ever lynches we make after Absta will be real. You will be able to do real wagon analysis on them assuming they don't end the game.

I think you are talking about worst case here. Where 2 scum are alive still in end game and using absta's ability if he is town. If absta is scum in a lylo all he needs is a town player to vote a town player.
The best way around that is to force absta to vote at the start a player and go from there.

Have you read his role PM? I don't know why you can't understand this and it is really getting me irritated. Yes. I am talking about worse cases here because its the easiest way to illustrate that we don't lose anything by lynching Absta. The worst case scenario is that Absta is town who is still alive in the endgame. If that is the case, then scum have a hammering power equal to [Number of scum votes left + 1]. If that hammering power is enough to control the majority of the votes left in the game then we have essentially already lost. Yes we still have the opportunity to speed wagon the scum player as soon as day opens, but its literally a race to see who gets the votes in first. I don't want it to come to that and neither should you.

I don't know why you are talking about absta being scum in Lylo, but in that situation making him vote first doesn't do anything. If a townie votes another townie absta's vote automatically flies over to hammer said townie. He is literally a scum player in the endgame no matter what his alignment card says. If he is scum that is actually good for us because then scum control one less vote in the game.

I just put up how to deal with a hammer

Making him vote first doesn't solve anything.

the worst/worst case is more if absta is town then if he is scum in lylo.

Yeah. I know. This is exactly why we want him dead before the endgame.

[Micc]

As much as I hate PrivateI for that careless vote on Yiley, and the fact that he too is a useless lurking waste of a player slot, I would still rather lynch Yiley. Yiley's meta shows such a contrast in involved-ness between scum and town that we just can't ignore it.

I intend to hammer Yiley at some point before the end of Day1.

I want a definitive stance from Brian regarding the roleblock before that happens. If day closes before he comes in I am going to assume that means he has decided to use it, and I fully intend to hold him to that.

[TierShift]

Yeah, so I'm going to throw that out for the purposes of this game. The play there as a whole is much more chaotic, there are three days per real life day, and I'm seeing completely different play there than here in any game.

Right now, I'm not seeing scum Yiley,

though I will focus on him while

re-reading

.

All right, I'm hoping that Yiley is scum since I don't think anyone else is going to get wagoned this close to deadline. Keep in mind that he is now at L-2.

VOTE: Yiley[/b]

Yeah, thanks for the reread and comments on the gamestate. Thanks for expressing scumreads.

Instead of that, you just stroll by with a supposed yiley vote whilr you don't scumread him.

Fake votes are gay, btw.

I have to control myself not to start a wagon.

[farside22]

Yeah, so I'm going to throw that out for the purposes of this game. The play there as a whole is much more chaotic, there are three days per real life day, and I'm seeing completely different play there than here in any game.

Right now, I'm not seeing scum Yiley,

though I will focus on him while

re-reading

.

All right, I'm hoping that Yiley is scum since I don't think anyone else is going to get wagoned this close to deadline. Keep in mind that he is now at L-2.

VOTE: Yiley[/b]

Yeah, thanks for the reread and comments on the gamestate. Thanks for expressing scumreads.

Instead of that, you just stroll by with a supposed yiley vote whilr you don't scumread him.

Fake votes are gay, btw.

I have to control myself not to start a wagon.

I just want to keep agreeing with Tier. It took lots of effort not to change my vote.

pause.

unvote
vote: Private.

If people can read these quotes and tell me why they are not voting Private at this point I will personal slap them silly ( )

My primary experience with Yiley is on another forum. Maybe he's more shrewd here, which is entirely possible.

I don't really understand the Yiley read, to be honest. I also don't understand this.

I would still rather lynch Yiley at this point than do the cop investigation.

What is the rationale behind this? Are you seriously that convinced that he is scum that you want to lynch the cop?

Yeah, so I'm going to throw that out for the purposes of this game. The play there as a whole is much more chaotic, there are three days per real life day, and I'm seeing completely different play there than here in any game. Right now, I'm not seeing scum Yiley, though I will focus on him while re-reading.

All right, I'm hoping that Yiley is scum since I don't think anyone else is going to get wagoned this close to deadline. Keep in mind that he is now at L-2.

VOTE: Yiley[/b]

*note: For those offended by my statement I can not smack people but I would be tempted.

[Brian Skies]

I want a definitive stance from Brian regarding the roleblock before that happens. If day closes before he comes in I am going to assume that means he has decided to use it, and I fully intend to hold him to that.

Just stating this would have been perfectly fine and I would have followed through on it.

But since you asked:
1) If we lynch Yiley and he flips town, I will be using my roleblock tonight for the sole purpose of denying a scumkill. I've been running the numbers through my head and I can't see a situation where it wouldn't be wisest to PL Absta.
2) If we lynch Yiley and he flips scum, I won't be using my roleblock and will be holding onto it in case a better situation comes up (such as preventing a mylo situation by denying scum a NK).
3) If we lynch someone other than Yiley, I will be using my roleblock tonight for the sole purpose of denying a scumkill and possibly getting an investigation N2 (in the unlikely event the Yiley slot becomes townish and we decide to follow through on that).

[Mitillos]

@Tier: Where did I suggest anything like that? I suggested that if you believe absta is scum, you should look for his partner today and leave absta for D2 at least. And yeah, I already said that I'm good with a Yiley lynch, as well. Second choice and all that. I'll most likely be around for the last few hours before deadline, so you don't have to worry about the mobility of my vote.

Oh, wait. PrivateI got back and put him at L-1 and said virtually nothing else. Yeah, this PrivateI lynch is happening tomorrow if Brian uses his power.

@Brian: If you are town, you should use your power tonight, to make the numbers work in our favour in the long run. Also, if you don't, you may never get to use it and that doesn't help town.

[Brian Skies]

If you are town, you should use your power tonight, to make the numbers work in our favour in the long run. Also, if you don't, you may never get to use it and that doesn't help town.

Alright, I'll use it tonight for the sole purpose of denying a scumkill regardless of the lynch. I'd rather my ability benefit the town than not at all.

[Brian Skies]

Oh, wait. PrivateI got back and put him at L-1 and said virtually nothing else. Yeah, this PrivateI lynch is happening tomorrow if Brian uses his power.

I thought PI was first on your lynch order.

[Mitillos]

Yes, he is. But I thought that since he voted Yiley and put him at L-1, the lynch happened and we're now at twilight.

If that's not the case, more PrivateI votes, please.

[TierShift]

Well, I really hate deadline wagons.

I want Pri to get in here and tell me what that latest post was all about.

[farside22]

Yes, he is. But I thought that since he voted Yiley and put him at L-1, the lynch happened and we're now at twilight.

If that's not the case, more PrivateI votes, please.

I didn't even notice. That hammer vote from absta throws me off. But I put Yiley at L-2 and private just voted for him.
Hammer means he is most likely lynched.

[Brian Skies]

Only if N counts that as a vote.

[TierShift]

It's damn obvious fake vote

Which doesn't seem logical at all for scum.

I'm way more comfy with the yiley lynch.

[farside22]

It's damn obvious fake vote

Which doesn't seem logical at all for scum.

I'm way more comfy with the yiley lynch.

Why is that logical for town?

[Mitillos]

@Tier: He asked the mod to fix his tags, immediately after. Even if N doesn't accept PI's vote, we should take it to have been intended as a real one. It's very convenient how he was around to hammer the cop, when he has basically lurked the game away this entire time.