WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[petroleumjelly]

Dawn breaks over the land, a red dawn for bloody murder has been done this night.
Fuldu silverbow is found torn to peices, paw print set in the stone beside her, dangerous times.
Elmudbuckindra is also dead, his body bloated and black, clearly he didnt see that coming, dork.
But the town rejoices when they discover the body of Shamrock sedai, one of the supposedly fictional black ajah, how will the tower cover this one up?

Fuldu - Birgitte Silver bow - killed by darkhounds
Mudbuck - Min - killed by a weapon clearly tainted with corruption
Shamrock - Galina Sedai - killed with the power somehow.

its day 1, with 26 living its 14 to lynch.
aaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnd VOTE!

I think we can learn a lot from this. My first thoughts were that there are two mafia groups, and a SK.

Fuldu (Birgitte) was killed by Darkhounds: I would imagine this is the work of the Dark One and/or his Chosen. This leads me to believe that there is a "Forsaken" Mafia.

Mudbuck (Min) was killed "with a weapon clearly tainted with corruption". I don't know about the rest of you, but this sounds like the tainted knife that is carried by Padan Fain. I would imagine Padan Fain is a SK.

Shamrock (Galina Sedai) was "killed with the power somehow". This one is confusing to me. People who could kill with the power are: Aes Sedai, Ashaman, the Forsaken, Rand Al'Thor, and The Dark One. I haven't decided on which I think is most likely (I am leaning towards Aes Sedai, personally, but I would also imagine an Aes Sedai killer would be from the Black Ajah...)

I have a few ideas as to what roles Min and Birgitte may have been, but I see no reason to speculate on that for the time being.

Vote: Channel Delibird

. This vote may not be as random as it seems.

[petroleumjelly]

Shamrock (Galina Sedai) was "killed with the power somehow". This one is confusing to me. People who could kill with the power are: Aes Sedai, Ashaman, the Forsaken, Rand Al'Thor, and The Dark One. I haven't decided on which I think is most likely (I am leaning towards Aes Sedai, personally, but I would also imagine an Aes Sedai killer would be from the Black Ajah...)

I gave this a bit more thought (as I was trying to go to sleep last night), and I thought of some other possibilities. Other people who can kill with the power are Wilders, some Wise Ones (from the Aiel, perhaps more specifically the Shaido), the Seanchan's damane and sul'dam, and The Knitting Circle ladies.

I personally think it may be either the Seanchan or possibly the Shaido (although I would imagine the Shaido would kill using spears... hum). Of course, this makes the Black Ajah just as problematic. I also discarded the thought of a Black Ajah cult, because as TSS points out, the Black Ajah can only recruit Aes Sedai. This leads me to believe that their kill must have somehow been nulled, but we will probably be able to make a more educated guess on that after tomorrow morning.

The response for my vote which "may or may not be as random as it seems" is very interesting, and I choose not to elaborate on it for the time being. I would rather wait until everybody has checked in and said their piece.

[petroleumjelly]

Aww, Flay, I wanted to see how many people would try to fish at my role. You done went and ruined it.

[petroleumjelly]

Indeed, that is interesting.

Unvote, Vote: Mr. Flay

.

Mother's Milk in a Cup!

[petroleumjelly]

Aww, Amelia.

In any case, I just remembered one of my thoughts about possible set-ups. If there is going to be a cult in this game, I would imagine that it is probably The Children of the Light, not the Black Ajah. But we have no evidence of that yet, so I won't put much stock in it until we have progressed further into the game.

[petroleumjelly]

By my personal vote count, I actually have Mr. Flay at 10 votes at the moment, but nevertheless, he isn't about to go anywhere.

Unvote: Mr. Flay

, which I believe puts him at nine (I think MMoD counted Pooky's votes twice). I don't want this day to go by too quickly without a chance to learn information from players who have yet to even check in.

If we agree that Mr. Flay is scum today, I think we will be better served by making an effort in searching for other scum today, and then either lynch Mr. Flay or other determined scum. No sense in flying by this day because of what seems to be an early claimed investigation, as I expect there are probably 6-8 more scum left in this game with the possibility of a cult.

[petroleumjelly]

Bascas and Albert the Great are starting to ping on my scumdar here.

You want an explanation for my vote on ChannelDelibird? It was completely random. My purpose in saying "this vote may not be as random as it seems" was to see if anybody reacted to it. See my Post 35:

Aww, Flay, I wanted to see how many people would try to fish at my role. You done went and ruined it.

This is pretty accurate. The most direct fisher was Mariyta. The two most persistent (but weaker) fishers are Bascas and Albert the Great.

And although it somewhat flattering that people seem to be wanting to know what I think all the time, it is also getting frustrating. What, exactly, do you want me to give my professional commentary on "since my last post"?

Also:

as for the flay thing, granted there could be sanity issues involved, but there are not very many ways to test sanity, and one of them (esp in day one) is to lynch the person and see what pops up

I expected that defense from Mr. Flay and the first thing came out of my mind was exactly that.

This confuses me. That quote M-M quoted was from Logicticus. It is basically saying that the best way to test Tamuz's sanity (if he is a Cop) is to lynch Mr. Flay. Lynching Mr. Flay is not a defense of Mr. Flay. Did I read this wrong?

hmmm, you changed your reasons quickly. the first quote seems like your avoiding claiming a power role too early. the second quote you change your vote from a vote that "may or may not be as random as it seems". explain.

I changed my reasons? When did I claim to

have

a reason? "May not be as random as it seems" is equivalent to "may or may not be as random as it seems". It either is random, or it's "not as random as it seems". Either quote comes to the same conclusion.

I am surprised people have started vote for Mr. Flay already again. I think we need clarification from Tamuz, and clarification from Mr. Flay. If Tamuz is going to claim a guilty investigation at all, we may as well know how he got this information and what context in which he received it. If we believe that, then we turn to Mr. Flay, allow him to defend, and if we do not agree with that, we have him name-claim and role-claim, at which point we can decide what will be done with him. There is no deadline on this day, so there is no point in rushing.

[petroleumjelly]

Checking in.

Although Tamuz's poetry is probably a role restriction (in accordance with Thom Merrelin, as I and others have suspected), I do not believe that Tamuz's vote on Mr. Flay is at all a restriction. If it were, I would wager he would have expressed more directly that his vote was either forced (by another player, most like) or random, or changed his vote upon returning. Instead, he puts accross assurance with his vote (stating that Mr. Flay is scum with no ambiguity), and in fact upon his clarification post, Tamuz said that he

would not lie

. Together, this strengthens my opinion that he probably has some sort of investigation on Mr. Flay, although this does nothing to show whether or not said investigation is correct, if indeed Tamuz's vote was based off an investigative result at all.

Needless to say, I still think there is no point on adding votes to Mr. Flay at the moment. He is close enough to a lynch as it is, and that position will not be changing any time soon. I think we need to hear more from Tamuz before we head any further in this direction.

[petroleumjelly]

anh, i can handle that,

vote:flay

keep in mind i will vote for you if he is not scum

GAHASDFLASDFKH. I swear you are one the scummiest sounding players on MS, Broomhead.

Tamuz just said he does not have a Cop investigation. He just said he is not a Gleeman. Why, then, are you taking his word? And why do you plan on voting for him tomorrow if Flay is town? Not everything is black and white in these games: there are multiple reasons something might happen, not just one, which you always seem to simplify things down into.

Frizzin'.

FoS: Broomhead

. Don't try to set up yourself up for a vote today and a vote tomorrow.

In other news, I agree with Logicticus that Tamuz's last response only makes matters milkier.

[petroleumjelly]

Sheesh. This is certainly an odd Day One.

People I am more than willing to vote for

right now

(in order of most willing):

1.) Karn1 (straddling the fence on Cop investigations, talking about crosskills, trusting

my

gut [which would not be gut if it were backed by evidence], weak attempt at humor when speaking of random votes, jumping on Flay after he defended himself without waiting for clarification from Tamuz or Flay...)
2.) Mariyta (blatant fishing, and towards more than one person)
3.) Broomhead (trying to set up two votes for two days after Tamuz has made it clear he does not have a guilty Cop investigation on Mr. Flay)

People I am slightly worried about:

1.) Albert the Great (fishing at my role and FoSing for "not explaining", for supplying Tamuz the possible role-claim of Thom Merrelin, tell Tamuz "well done" for what might have been a

random

investigation [therefore not making it 'well done' at all])
2.) Bascas (mimicking Albert the Great, fishing for my role, talking about Tamuz "asking for it tonight" if he is a Cop as if to garner sympathy)
3.) Mr. Flay (heck, I

did

think there was a guilty investigation on him, so this might just be lingering bias, but to not mention it would not be expressing my thoughts)

Vote: Karn1

. This wagon is both prosperous

and

well-reasoned, which is more than I can say for most Day One bandwagons. I want to see where it goes.

[petroleumjelly]

Do you have no intent to role-claim, Karn1? I think we're going to want one before much else goes on.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Karn1

.

Well, you might have waited longer than

that

and perhaps addressed some of the arguments on you first, but I guess we can make do. That role seems insanely strong, however. How far can it go?

For future nights, I would suggest being more open with your questions. The only example off the top of my head would be something like:

-Are at least one of X and Y scum? A "no" clears both (unless they have immunity, I would guess), and a yes narrows down options for at least one scum very quickly.

Unless there is a counter-claimer for Nynaeve, I honestly cannot see her as being evil.

On down my list, then. Since you claim innocence on Mariyta,

Vote: Broomhead

.

[petroleumjelly]

Hum, perhaps I was a bit hasty.

To be honest, I had a natural assumption as to what type of role Nynaeve would be, but that was simply such a strong name-claim that I was willing to overlook the seemingly mismatched ability that came with it. I

do

agree that my first thought was that a Lie Detector (or whatever you want to call this claim) would very much be more in lines of Min (with her visions), Egwene (with her dreaming and ability to access Tel'aran'rhiod), or any Aes Sedai yielding the Oath Rod. I wouldn't have mentioned these earlier (*ahem*), but since Yamahako already pointed it out, I may as well mention them.

Unvote: Broomhead

. I'll have to think, but I will mention that the absense of al'Meara (or perhaps Mandragoran) is not really a point against Karn1, since only "Nynaeve" is really necessarily to identify the character. "Village Wisdom" is somewhat disconcerting however, because that only seems applicable to very beginning of the like, the first book. Then again, it's arguable as to whether or not she is really an Aes Sedai, because when you consider the fact that she supports the "rebel" cause of the White Tower...

I'm just going to stop myself right there.

And after reading this post over, I have determined that I can be a really,

really

big nerd sometimes.

...

And with this potion, I have now received a +4 in dexterity when I use my Cursed Scimitar of Penultimate Doom, obtained from the vicious Dragon of Everlasting Torture, excavated from the bowels of Mount Whiplash! Grah! Za-ping! Kaplow!



I should probably go back and delete that last part, but I don't feel like it. And

no

it's not game related. I will simply keep it there to be a constant reminder to myself that I need to get a life.

[petroleumjelly]

Hum. Fair points.

Vote: Karn1

. I

believe

this puts him back at nine, but don't take my word on that.

[petroleumjelly]

I have no idea what she would be because I've never read the books.

So he just made one up...

On the subject of claiming ability, I'm kindof hoping a doc will protect a role as powerful as mine.

And if I survive, let's waste Doctor protections while I'm at it.

I might just have to whip out The Book of Classic Scum Tells for this game, because I think Karn1 has hit about half of them by now.

[petroleumjelly]

I might just have to whip out The Book of Classic Scum Tells for this game, because I think Karn1 has hit about half of them by now.

Please do so, so I can have greater insights into the mind of PJ.

Why on Earth would you want to get into my head? Enough trouble there already.

And also, SpamWise, the question was

supposed

to be rhetorical. In any case, let’s see if I can’t compile a small list of things Karn1 has done:

1.) Karn1’s random vote was on Mariyta (who he has now claimed an innocent investigation on, making this, if true, a very badly placed random vote)
2.) Karn1 “trusts my gut” a lot more than a random vote: seems like a cross between flattering me and being willing to hop on ChannelDelibird so long I mention the word “gut”
3.) Was the first person to mention the goodness that is probably cross-killing
4.) Small use of humor in his first post (The “I hate random votes”, “Random Vote: Maritya”) thing
5.) The “I would probably vote Mr. Flay at this point” and waits for Mr. Flay to defend himself
6.) But afterwards says the he “will probably vote Mr. Flay as soon as he comes in to defend himself”
7.) Votes Mr. Flay for ‘overreacting’ without giving any examples of overreaction
8.) Said “lynch either me or Flay”, which is firstly a false dilemma, and secondly showing what I think to be slight scum frustration
9.) Claiming very quickly upon suggestion
10.) Claiming only “Nynaeve, Village Wisdom” when last names appear to be the norm
11.) Claiming a role which does not mesh well with the character of Nynaeve (super-Cop)
12.) Happened to randomly investigate my (and others) next biggest guess at who is scum
13.) Saying he “has no idea what type of role Nynaeve would be”, which implies to me that he therefore thought Super-Cop sounded powerful enough to get the votes off of him
14.) Asking for a Doctor to protect him

If you need clarification on

why

I think these things are scum-tells, I suppose I can do that as well, but I think this is sufficient.

[petroleumjelly]

No, no, what I'm saying about Karn1's "random vote" is that Cops

do not

usually vote whoever they find to be innocent: that way, if they were to die the next night without having claimed Cop (and turned up as Cop, even though that does not seem to be the structure of this specific game), the town can be sure that the Cop either had a guilty on their "random vote" but did not want to claim (since they could easily be paranoid or insane), or that the Cop got an innocent investigation, and that they therefore placed their random vote somebody besides the investigated person, since there would be a higher chance of that vote landing on scum (assuming correct sanity, of course).

When a claimed Cop has an innocent on their "random vote", I think it is a cause for concern. And Mariyta, I believe Karn1 voted for Mr. Flay, so his random vote is not actually on you.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh,

do not

tell me you are town. That would make this like my worst night on Mafia Scum ever.

[petroleumjelly]

Do you have no intent to role-claim, Karn1? I think we're going to want one before much else goes on.

Is that what everyone is waiting on? People should tell me these things.

If you must know, I'm

Nynaeve, Village Wisdom

My role is very simple but it has a variety of uses. Each night I can ask a yes or no question. I get a correct anwser in the morning. I'm not sure if asking that someone is scum could bypass investigation immunity or anything, but it's far beyond a simple cop role.

Last night I asked if Mariyta was scum. the anwser was no.

If you want to know anything else, I'll be happy to answer any questions.

Made-up claim + trying to clear Mariyta = Mariyta scum

vote Mariyta

I don't like that logic. Karn1 could just as easily have picked Mariyta simply so somebody would make that exact argument, and draw the connection between Mariyta and Karn1. As it is, there are other reasons for voting Mariyta, but I don't believe this is a particularly strong one.

[petroleumjelly]

Why, are you leaving, Fritzler? You're still alive so far as I know.

As it is, there are too many people who skated by without giving much of their opinion yesterday. Those people are:

Illumina
Bacde
Themanhimself (AmeliaSlay)
Coron
Fritzler
Logicticus
Max
Pooky

I would certainly like to hear what these people have to say.

[petroleumjelly]

As it is, there are other reasons for voting Mariyta, but I don't believe this is a particularly strong one.

Ok, I'll bite. What other reasons are there for voting Mariyta?[/quote]

You know, you could just try looking back at Mariyta's posts and judging for yourself. Grr.

1.) Fishing towards me to elaborate on my random vote on ChannelDelibird at the beginning of the game.
2.) Using weak humor ('that's not a random vote, that's a bandwagon!')
3.) Mariyta claims she was not thinking about Cop claims when asking me to elaborate, which seems like horsepuckey to me. If you think a vote isn't random, then you must think there is information behind it: a good source for information is a Cop. That may or may not be the case, but that comment seemed insincere.
4.) Made a weak attempt at defending Karn's actions while supplying the caveat of "not defending Karn's actions".
5.) FoSing me, which is clearly unacceptable.
6.) The fact that Karn1 "cleared" her (although I still think this is weak)

However, I see good reason to believe Mr. Flay, Karn1, and Mariyta are not scum together, that being the fact that Karn1 placed an early second vote on Mariyta and Mr. Flay placed an early third vote on Mariyta (with AmeliaSlay/TheMansHimself placing the first). That does not mean Mariyta cannot be in an alternate scum group (i.e. the Black Ajah), but I do find reason to doubt she would be one of The Forsaken. I am more apt to believe that Karn1 and Mariyta are not associated at this point.

[petroleumjelly]

For Mariyta:

Hypothetical situation #1:

Suppose I am the Cop, and I have a guilty investigation on Channel Delibird.

But

, I have reason to believe I may very easily be paranoid or insane. When you try to force me into elaborating on my vote, the only explanation I could give (which would make it non-random) would be to say I am a Cop with a guilty investigation.

However, claiming that on Day One with no means to know my sanity could be very

bad

for the town. If I

am

paranoid or insane, then hanging CD would of course be bad. Worse, I would look more anti-town afterwards for having an innocent lynched, which may lead me into also being lynched. Even if I can prove myself to be paranoid/insane or otherwise become confirmed, I would be a prime nightkill target for scum.

Hypothetical #2:

If I were a Mason (and thus know one to two more innocents), then my vote would "not be as random as it seems" because I would know ahead of time a few people who are innocent, and thus I would not vote them. However, if I were to claim this, it would drastically decrease the chance of the Masonry making it far into the game, where Masonries are strongest, and my claim would make it easier to determine the other Mason(s) in the game as well.

Hypothetical #3:

If I were a tracker and I had tracked CD to one of the dead players, that would not be definitive proof that CD was scum, although it would certainly increase the chances, thus making it "not as random as it seems". It would be bad to reveal this information, because CD could still easily be innocent, and if he

is

innocent, he is guaranteed to have a power role of some sort.

Overall:

Fishing is bad. If there is a true

reason

behind a "random vote", it is probably because that person is a power role of some sort. Power roles

do not

want to claim early, because it makes them easy night-kill targets, and the information they have may in fact be harmful to the town. If somebody does not want to reveal their reasons for voting early in the game,

do not push on them

, because chances are they have a good reason (and if they don't, you can just as easily determine that later in the game).

Luckily for you, my vote on Channel Delibird

was

random, so I do not have to worry about claiming in the least to explain my vote. The purpose of that statement was precisely to see who would try to latch onto it, and you were one of those people.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm, interesting time to claim such information. I would also suspect that the Seanchan are the one's trying to collar people, if in fact that information is true. Although I originally thought if there was a cult, it would probably be the Children of the Light, I suppose it is possible that there is a Seanchan cult, who can only collar specific players (which is interesting, because in the books, we know that the Seanchan can even collar Forsaken, as they channel).

Also, I seriously doubt that there are two seperate Seanchan which would try to slip collars on to people: there may be a group that collectively chooses one target each night, however.

Worthy of note is the fact that both Mr. Flay (Mesaana) and Karn1 (Demandred) were of the Forsaken. I should probably read back and see if anybody showed hesitance towards voting either or both of these two players.

Also, this statement by Flay is interesting in retrospect:

Wow. Good catch on Karn's random vote, PJ.

Anyone not voting for him at this point will be highly suspect if he comes up scum after all of this

. Ordinarily I wouldn't keep my vote on a claimed cop, but a claimed cop who votes for his night investigation is easy-peasy.

... but I'm not good enough at playing the WIFOM game in order to determine as to whether he was telling his partner(s) "hey, you dorks, vote for Karn1" or if his partner(s) were already

on

Karn1 and was planning on casting suspicion on those who did not vote for him afterwards.

[petroleumjelly]

On the subject of mind control (which MrBuddyLee has now brought up), consider the fact that Mr. Flay was of the Forsaken, and then consider this statement he made:

If I had to guess, I'd say one of the Forsaken/Black Ajah could use Compulsion to mind-control someone.

And then this quote from Albert the Great:

In The Great Hunt (the second book), there is an Aes Sedai that has a specialty of controlling and manipulating what her victims do with the One Power. She attempts to use this on Rand in order to find out what he erases on the dungeon wall in Fal Dara. I suspect that she is of the Black Ajah (I don't remember from when I read the series before). It is a possibility though.

At the moment, I am seeing that post an opportunity to extrapolate possible misinformation via Mr. Flay.

FoS: Albert the Great

.

After a re-read, people who I can easily see as being connected with Karn1 and Mr. Flay:
-MrBuddyLee
-Albert the Great
-Bacde (very weak case, however, since he only has

one post

)

Of the three, I would most like to poke a little at MBL:

Here are his posts:

After Tamuz used poetic verse to ‘incriminate’ Flay:

Can we be sure he has info? Perhaps Tamuz just found Mr. Flay's posting style scummy.

Yeah, I'm thinking mind control here. Definitely don't lynch Flay just yet.

And after a case was made against Karn1 and he claimed, we have:

Killing a claimed cop isn't an action to be taken lightly. Everyone should read the history and state their specific reasons for offing him before placing a vote. Or unvoting him, for that matter.

Why are there still votes on Flay?

1.) Karn1’s random vote was on Mariyta (who he has now claimed an innocent investigation on, making this, if true, a very badly placed random vote)

Karn, I'd like to hear your explanation for that random vote.

About here, I think MBL is starting to see that Karn1 is slowly going through the process of spontaneous combustion…

meh, I think it's dicey to lynch a claimed confirmable power role. I find karn's random vote bizarre because you'd think a cop wouldn't do that to someone he cleared. can't make up my mind on that situation, so i'm erring on the side of caution and asking questions.

I weighed in on both big wagons today, asked good questions and I'm not sure who I want to vote for yet.

It should probably go on someone who's still on Flay

, because I think the "evidence" against Flay has been deemed way questionable if not outright false.

Fancy that: MBL doesn’t like either of the two biggest wagons in the game: Mr. Flay (Forsaken) or Karn1 (Forsaken). Instead, he would rather vote for somebody who is voting for Mr. Flay.

Also of note:

If the Seanchan are indeed a cult and did indeed target MBL, the fact that he was not recruited makes perfect sense: cults usually fail when they try to recruit mafia members.

Further, if MBL "broke free" from this collar, how could he come to the conclusion of "mind control"? This, coupled with the fact that MBL has chosen such an odd time to give the town this information, I believe there is enough on the table to warrant a:

Vote: MrBuddyLee

.

[petroleumjelly]

I second that motion.

[petroleumjelly]

Who have you targeted each night?

[petroleumjelly]

I don't believe you. I think you are lying scum: your night targeting does not match up.

Unvote: MrBuddyLee, Vote: Mariyta

. I would suggest others do the same.

[petroleumjelly]

People who really,

really

need to post today:
Coron
Max
Pooky

[petroleumjelly]

If she is telling the truth Broomhead (which I sincerely doubt), then although it may be true she "has no choice" of targets, I do not think the targets she cited today add up, as I do not believe a vigilante would have targeted Mr. Flay last night.

Vote Mariyta for great justice!

[petroleumjelly]

*huggles Pooky*

And dangit, I would

love

to go to MeMeMeet, but at least this year, it is quite impossible from a financial perspective.

[petroleumjelly]

Yeah, that's interesting that Axelrod turned out to be scum. I will freely admit that I had him in my "pro-town" slot in my notes.

I'll give this game a reread later today before I cast a vote or anything.

[petroleumjelly]

Now that I think on it:

Fritz, what's the play today?

[petroleumjelly]

Now that I think on it:

Fritz, what's the play today?

probably the man himself

Vote: themanhimself

Vote: TheManHimself

. Die, scum.

[petroleumjelly]

Is there any reason we're voting for themanhimself other than the fact that Fritzler feels like it?

FoS: ChannelDelibird

.

You're next on my list.

[petroleumjelly]

Of course I am still here and reading! We'll get to lynching ChannelDelibird and Yosarian2 after TheManHimself finally realizes he's about to be lynchedzorz.

[petroleumjelly]

*shrug*

Unvote: TheManHimself, Vote: Yosarian2

. I think MBL missed the point. I'll still be poking at TheManHimself and ChannelDelibird tomorrow, if I am still alive.

[petroleumjelly]

FoS: MrBuddyLee

Sometimes it's best not to doubt Jelly. I usually have reasons for what I do. My reasons this time happened to be Fritzler. No more asky-questions.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm.

Unvote: Yosarian2, Vote: ChannelDelibird

.

[petroleumjelly]

FoS: MMoD

. Masons are not neutral. Get with the program.

[petroleumjelly]

I'll get with whatever damn program I feel like. Don't try and judge my actions when you don't know everything.

Overreact much?

[petroleumjelly]

Note: I will be away from June 24 - July 1. I will understand if I need to be replaced, but I have requested that the Mod allow me to continue playing if at all possible.

I will be posting this in all of my games which are not in night.

[petroleumjelly]

I don't quite think MMoD exhibited a true scum tell there. If his role has anything to do with neutrality, or finding neutrality, then he was being silly saying that so blatantly in-thread. How often do you see games where neutral roles are just mentioned off-hand without any evidence of there being a neutral role? It doesn't happen. The fact that he asked a claimed

Mason

if he was neutral was so silly I had to slap a FoS on him.

I won't speculate on what I think MMoD may have been trying to achieve with his question at the moment. I will probably start poking at him tomorrow, though, if both of us are alive.

Why aren't we lynching ChannelDelibird yet?

Confirm Vote: ChannelDelibird

.

[petroleumjelly]

Uh... I have a question for our

Mod

.

Night Two:

Dawn breaks over the town, the townsfolk gather fearfully, expecting to see a massacre to have occured in the night, not so, but a few deaths none the less.

Mr. Flay is found black swollen and obviously dead, a quick and disgusting search turns up a few items that reveal him to be Mesaana, one of the Forsaken.
Yamahako is found dead without a mark on her body, smothered by the power no doubt. Her long braid marks her as Nyneave.

Dead -
Mr Flay - Mesaana
Yamahako - Nyneave

with 22 living, its 12 to lynch
VOTE!

But here:

The silent Speaker - Vanished night 2 - Verin Sedai
Mr. Flay (more /in than Fritzler ) - killed night 2 - Mesaana
Yamahako - Killed night 2 - Nynaeve

I didn't even notice that TSS was dead/gone (I still had him as being alive in my notes). Could you please change the night-scene to compensate for this? I was rather confused when I saw that 15 were alive and not 16.

[petroleumjelly]

Ha, what good timing. We still do need a couple of replacements for this game, Gleeman.

Last Posts

People we need replaced

TheManHimself – June 4 (One month, people)
Broomhead – June 10 (Has been gone elsewhere on the site)

Others Who are Fine

Armlx – June 20
Fritzler – June 21
Bascas – June 22
Spamwise – June 23
Lordy – June 28
Yosarian2 – June 29
Mystery Meat of Doom – June 29
Cyan – June 29
MrBuddyLee – June 29
Machiavellian-Mafia – June 29 (Warned of little absence until July 9)
Nightson/Illumina – June 29
Tamuz – June 29

[petroleumjelly]

*Huggles Gleeman* It's okay.

Anyways, where was I? Let's take a look at the player roster... I wanted to vote for TheManHimself, but I may as well wait for a replacement...

Vote: Lordy

.

I am interested in hearing from SpamWise. I also might have to start poking at Tamuz and MMoD, since both of them also seem to have more information than the rest of the town. I think we should have Yos2 tell us how many more members are in his Masonry, so scum cannot fake to be in it when (if) all the members die.

This no-reveal driving me nuts, I hate not knowing what types of roles are dead and gone.

Also, I am still curious as to the "collars". It seems that MBL is

still

the only person who has had this trouble.

[petroleumjelly]

How does no-reveal keep the "

mafia

on its toes"? No-reveal makes it infinitely

easier

for the Mafia. We could have three dead Cops by now! How would we know? When we don't even know the lay-out of the dead townspeople, we cannot judge how many more power roles (if any) are left in the game whatsoever. Also, when we don't know what roles are dead, it makes it easier for mafia to fake-claim roles (since there is a higher probability that there won't be a townsperson with a role similar enough to be suspicious of the claim).

Further: my vote is by no means arbitrary. Try reading back on the Max/Lordy posts. Then try reading back on the AmeliaSlay/TheManHimself posts.

Also, Tamuz did not mention mind control, that was MrBuddyLee in Post 125, unless I read your last paragraph incorrectly.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, that is good to know, MMoD. If you have

any

other information on collaring, feel free to enlighten us. It's almost certain the collarers are anti-town (whether cult or mafia group or something different, we can't yet know), so that's information that at least one scum somewhere knows that the town does not know about.

Also, I am now going to speculate on the killing groups (oh noes), since so much dang scum seems to have died:

Two groups of four scum (one The Forsaken, one The Black Ajah). Two Serial Killers, Mazrim Taim and Padan Fain.

Forsaken: Demandred (Karn1), Mesaana (Mr. Flay), Lanfear (Logicticus), Sammael (Who Yamahako mentioned uses Darkhounds, which explains Fuldu's death, BJ's death, and Pooky's death)

Black Ajah: Galina Sedai (Shamrock), Linadrin Sedai (Axelrod), Two others...

I would imagine the "Vanishing" of TSS was due to Balefare, which could have been done by practically any of the Forsaken and perhaps a few Black Ajah. Further, since the person playing Sammael seemed to have been doing all the killing for The Forsaken, I would speculate that that player has not come under serious scrutiny of the town yet (else they would have feared being role-blocked earlier in the game).

As it is, that would already be a little over 1/3 of the original town-size, and if we consider the possibility of a Seanchan cult (or something along the lines of a one-time recruitment), about all we know is that this game has way too much scum. Can't hardly sneeze without lynching another one.

Anybody have other ideas on the scum group(s) at this point?

[petroleumjelly]

Oooh, this game is being broken wide open! Scum may as well just give up now. They gots no chance.

First things first:

Yosarian2, I want a name-claim. And then I want you to explain this:

Including me, there are currently 4 people in the masonry.

Would you care to expand on this? Illumina is claiming there are 3 members of the Masonry alive. I want all members of this Masonry detailed.

To be honest, Yosarian2 is most likely just Alviarin Sedai, of the Black Ajah. XGreyJoyX probably figured his role-name didn't having bearing on alignment, and so thought it safe to give his real name to the rest of the Masonry (which is unfortunate for Yos2, really, puts him in a tough position).

I'll slap down my vote after giving him a fair trial.

Of note: Please let's hold back a lynch until we find replacements for Broomhead and TheManHimself, so that I can least read something from them before going into night.

[petroleumjelly]

And oh, yes, we

definitely

need to hear from Spamwise as well. I think each member of the Masonry ought to give their own details as to just what went down during night conversations.

Also, for MMoD:

Channeling is simply using the One Power (like using magic). If you are shielded, you can no longer Channel unless you can break through, and if you are collared, your ability to channel is directly determined by the wielder of the bracelet attached to the collar. Also, you can use angraels (ter'angreals, etc.) to accomplish different purposes, or to maximize your channeling potential.

[petroleumjelly]

Have any of the nightkills have characteristics of someone using channeling to kill someone else?

Yes indeed, but I wouldn't go so far as to attribute them all to the same person or group of people. I'll copy-paste from my notes...

*3.) Shamrock, Galina Sedai (BA/MASON), The Power N0
17.) Yamahako, Nynaeve, Smothered w/ Power N1
*19.) The Silent Speaker, Verin Sedai [MASON], Vanished N1
29.) Albert the Great, Perrin Aybara, Smothered w/ Power N3
16.) Logicticus, Lanfear (Forsaken), Smothered w/ Power N4

Using "the power" is channeling. We are also of the opinion that TSS's vanishing was caused by Balefire (which is an extreme form of channeling, which essentially erases the targeted object from existence, and in fact may be so powerful that it will have ceased to exist

before

it was ever targeted).

Obv I haven't read the books as you can tell. Can someone tell me the flavour between the masons? How are their characters related?

Aes Sedai are women who have been 'properly trained' on how to channel (which is done inside the White Tower). All of the Masons are claiming to be Aes Sedai. All Aes Sedai must submit themselves to the Oath Rod, which prevents them from

ever

telling a lie (which gives them the reputation for being even tricksier with their wording than most people).

The premise of the series is that all this junk leads up to Tarman G'aidon, or The Final Battle. In that war, there is the light (generally represented by Rand Al'Thor and company) versus the dark (The Dark Lord, his Forsaken, Shadowspawn [Dogs, Ravens, Rats, Trollocs, Myrrdraal, etc.], Darkfriends, and Black Ajah). The Black Ajah are Aes Sedai who have foregone the Oath Rod (broken their vow) in order to serve the Dark Lord. The White Tower generally denies there is such a thing as Black Ajah (as you can see from the first night).

***

Also, I find that Siuan Sanche is a

very

likely character in this game, so I am wondering at Cyan's implication that she may be lying. Frankly, if Illumina is part of a scum group of any sort, I would imagine they would only receive a maximum of one safe claim (and because of relative inexperience, the scum group would have had somebody other than Illumina be allowed to use the name of Siuan). iirc, Siuan was deposed from the tower very early on in the series and replaced by Elaida, so not being the Amyrlin in this game makes perfect sense to me.

As it is, I am getting the impression that scum weren't given safe-claims at all (see: Karn1's claim). Merilille is a weak enough claim that it is very likely false. Alviarin, however, is definitely a main character, and is most definitely Black Ajah. I really can't see this day going by without a Yosarian2 lynch, but I would still rather everybody check in and have their say first.

[petroleumjelly]

Whoops, error in my notes. Thought the nights were off. EBWODP:

*3.) Shamrock, Galina Sedai (BA/MASON), The Power N0
17.) Yamahako, Nynaeve, Smothered w/ Power N1
*19.) The Silent Speaker, Verin Sedai [MASON], Vanished N1
29.) Albert the Great, Perrin Aybara, Smothered w/ Power N2
16.) Logicticus, Lanfear (Forsaken), Smothered w/ Power N3

[petroleumjelly]

So now, what clues have we picked up from today and the previous few days? Theres not enough info, only screwed up roleclaims from those who died that I believe are mafia.

Frizzin.

Lordy, there is a

lot

of information out here.

We have three Masons who think they have a scum mason within them (treachery is afoot!). We have MMoD claiming that there could possibly be a neutral role in the Masonry (sounds like a traitorish role) or possibly elsewhere. There is intrigue in that revealing Aes Sedai may get them collared (as first mentioned by MBL, and seconded and confirmed by MMoD), although we can only guess at what collaring does at this time (though it seems as if it does

not

turn them into a cult, since BabyJesus was supposedly collared N3 and yet we were still told he was in the light). We have some speculation as to the scum groups on the table, we have speculation as to who killed who on the table! We have voting records you should be scrutinizing, there are comments that have been made off-hand which imply that the commentor may have more information than they reveal!

I ask that you read back in the thread and comment on what you see before saying there is 'little info' again.

[petroleumjelly]

We are also of the opinion that TSS's vanishing was caused by Balefire (which is an extreme form of channeling, which essentially erases the targeted object from existence, and in fact may be so powerful that it will have ceased to exist before it was ever targeted).

[petroleumjelly]

More info? Hmm.

I would personally say yes in revealing some more info sometime before the day ends, but we should let others weigh in first as well. I would wait until after we sort out the Mason thing (read: after Spamwise comes back so we can question all three Masons), and then we can have you chime in before we decide what we're ultimately going to do.

[petroleumjelly]

Please stop voting for Yosarian2 people. He's not going anywhere. We can lynch him at any time, but the faster we lynch him, the less discussion we get. Discussion is good for the town.

I think we

do

need to hear from SpamWise. Right now, it is simply Illumina's word against Yosarian2's word. Hearing the third word from SpamWise is rather critical.

And after we're done poking SpamWise (and the other members of the Masonry), we can have MMoD reveal his information before we ultimately decide on what we're doing today.

[petroleumjelly]

FoS: Anonymities

.

Don't try to stifle discussion by leading us through a quick day. We might not

get

to hear from SpamWise or MMoD

at all

if you lynch too quickly and they die during the night. Thought of that? We may as well get that information

today

, while we know it's still there, instead of risking losing that information tomorrow.

For Pete's sake, let everybody check in, say their piece on Yosarian2, then we'll get information anybody wants to reveal, then we'll decide our lynch. It is

not

this difficult.

And also, we still need to hear from the replacement for Broomhead.

[petroleumjelly]

That actually sounds fairly plausible. The likelihood of a cult in this game does not seem very high, since we are not truly told alignment on death. Since BabyJesus was very clearly an Aes Sedai, and was successfully collared (or so I gather), but we were not told of any adverse affects of the collaring, an investigative roles (such as a gunsmith which simply searches for female channelers) does not seem out of the question.

Still waiting on SpamWise, although I have noted he has not posted elsewhere either. Blood and bloody ashes!

[petroleumjelly]

Spaaaaaamwise...

SpaaaAAAAAAmmmmmwiiiiiiise...

*drums fingers impatiently*

[petroleumjelly]

Basically, there isn't enough room, in Tamuz's opinion, for this game to include all of the roles you are speculating this game to have (specifically Whitecloaks).

[petroleumjelly]

Hrm.

FoS: Cyan

. Just read back on your posts, and I'm wondering whether you are a partner of Yosarian2. You voted him when SpamWise claimed a 100% certainty, but quickly found a reason to unvote (not that others haven't)... but you have done the same thing today. You originally vote for Yosarian2, but then immediately throw skepticism towards Illumina's claim, and now you are trying to lean today's lynch towards MBL or Anonymities, while also trying to assure you cast Illumina in a bad light by emphasizing Yosarian2's theory that the collarer is a scum ability searching for channeling women (thus making the revealing of three such persons as a 'scummy play').

Just a vibe I'm seeing, I'll have to look into it later.

Still

waiting on SpamWise.

Also:

Could you people start playing instead of simply speculating?

It's all very nice, and most likely, all very useless. There is a time for speculation, but speculating on things we don't have to deal with at the moment is just a distraction. It's all right to speculate, but not to such a point that we are not doing anything else.

And

Mod

, I believe SpamWise's last post was on June 29. However, seeing as he seems to be a Mason, the reason we want him (read: to verify night conversation) will

not

be alleviated if he is replaced. If it is at all possible, I would rather not have SpamWise replaced at this point in time, since we will lose the information we are looking for. At this time, the more important person to replace is still Broomhead, while trying to wait on SpamWise to show up.

[petroleumjelly]

The problem is that we ARE in:

Lynch and

LOSE INFORMATION

. Stop voting Yosarian2, burn your eyes. He is not going anywhere. I want SpamWise to talk today. I want a replacement for Broomhead who is active. And I want to hear MMoD's information.

Stop trying to push this day too quickly. It is

not

a method in which you will get on Jelly's good side.

[petroleumjelly]

How about I put this another way.

Playing Mafia includes two things:

Talking during the day
And actions (or talking) during night

If we lynch somebody right now, we are losing information from three seperate people, two of which will have not

talked during the day

.

Further, if they are not

here

to talk during the day, they will likely lose their actions during the night.

Lynching now is only taking people

away

from playing the game. There is plenty of stuff to talk about. Reread the thread, look for connections. If you want to vote Yosarian2, say so, but don't do it yet. If you don't want to vote Yosarian2, say so, and explain why.

We don't need a lynch for the game to "move forwards" when it is Day Four, and 6-7 scum are dead (the only person I am not 100% sure was scum is Mariyta, as the lynch scene was rather ambiguous).

If people "lose interest", they can regain that interest by playing without necessarily voting at the moment. There is no deadline: let's use the time we have.

[petroleumjelly]

Welcome, Ghyrt! Could we hear your thoughts about the game so far?

[petroleumjelly]

Pretty much, there's just four things I want today.

1.) Hear SpamWise's story
2.) Have Ghyrt ensure us he is familiar with the game (by posting suspicions or whatnot)
3.) Hear MMoD's info
4.) Lynch Yosarian2, pending Illumina and SpamWise agreeing

Pretty simple stuff.

[petroleumjelly]

Sorry I didn't post yesterday, internet was out.

And funnily enough, to address Cyan:

"Elaida Sedai", as SpamWise just claimed, it the new Amyrlin. She also would no longer be referred to as "Sedai". If you are going to use that argument against Illumina, I suggest you expand it to include SpamWise.

Anyways, I am still positive Yosarian2 simply replaced into a situation he could not control. His lynch today does not mean to say he has played badly, simply that I am pretty sure he is scum (now that we have confirmation from two people who night-talked with his predecessor).

I will vote Yosarian2 after MMoD reveals his information, if he still wants to do so.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, if

that's

your information, you should be fine without claiming today. Good to know. ^_^

Vote: Yosarian2

.

[petroleumjelly]

Hm. Should I bother ability-claiming? It's pretty obvious at this point what my ability is.

Well, it seems pretty obvious that your ability is to collar people. It's up to you whether or not you want to reveal more information than that, because I don't see your role as being a cult.

[petroleumjelly]

Then it's pretty obvious what you consider to be pretty obvious isn't as obvious as you think. From your actions today, it can be inferred that you are the collarer, since you not only know BabyJesus was collared but also don't want us to get the 'wrong impression' of the collarer.

If you want to reveal information, go ahead and do so.

[petroleumjelly]

Woohoo, nice! MMoD, you have just cleared yourself in my eyes.

Frankly, if there are neutral roles who are even

considering

of turning scum, they are out of their minds. The town has this game wrapped up. Convert to the light... for great justice!

About to be lynchedzorz

Yosarian2

Like 90% Sure Good Guys

MMoD (Just cleared himself to me)
Ghyrt/Broomhead (After reading all Broomhead's games, I can't see him as scum, I am willing to trust my gut on this)
PetroleumJelly (Obvobv)
SpamWise (Pretty sure he's a clean Mason)
Illumina (See above)

People Who Seem More Town than Others

MrBuddyLee
Tamuz
Fritzler
Lordy

The LeftOvers

Cyan
Machiavellian-Mafia
Anonymities
Armlx
Bascas

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

.

Stop trying to derail the Yos lynch, people.

[petroleumjelly]

At this point, I think the lack of night-killing is due to scum who are simply not here. Bascas' last post was on Mafia Scum was June 22. He is also on my leftovers list.

Vote: Bascas

. My best lead at the moment.

[petroleumjelly]

Meh, I'm just going to claim so you guys don't keep going down the wrong track.

I am

Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn, Vigilante

. I send my Ashaman to do my killing. My night targets are as follows:

Night Zero:

Mudbuck (This kill did not go through: Mudbuck was apparently dead before my Ashaman ever got to him)

Night One:

Broomhead (This kill was refused by my Ashaman: MMoD's information coincides with this. Now I know that Broomhead/Ghyrt is my Ashaman, so I consider him cleared [and said as much yesterday].)

Night Two:

Albert the Great (His fishing was scummy enough to warrant it, and his conversation with Flay stuck in my mind)

Night Three:

Logicticus (His posts were insubstantial and pretty scummy. This turned out to be a good shot)

Night Five:

Cyan (From the looks of it, Cyan seemed like Yos2's partner trying to use any excuse not to vote for Yos2)

In other words, the scum's kill did not go through last night. Which leads me to believe Bascas is the most likely person to be scum. We could also be dealing with a traitor role who just can't kill anybody at the moment, or possibly a modified cult role.

Note: this was another reason why I did not believe Mariyta. She claimed to have targeted Mr. Flay, which I know would not be possible since I never sent in a Mr. Flay kill. That is why I am about 95% sure Mariyta was scum.

And yeah, yeah: "why would Vigs kill Night Zero"? Because this game had 29 people, and I really don't like large games. And now Fritzler can't tease me.

Also, on Night Two, Pooky (Moraine Sedai) found me, so we effectively became Masons until he died the next night. He never really responded to my PMs, however, so I do not know what his exact role was (although I don't believe he had any more information to work off of than I did).

We could probably win this game right-out just be mass-claiming, but I frankly don't like mass-claiming very much even if I think it is the optimal strategy.

Questions? Comments?

[petroleumjelly]

Nope, I didn't know who my Ashaman were, just that I send them to do my killing. It was left ambiguous as to whether or not I have multiple Ashaman (in fact, it was not even guaranteed there were any actual Ashaman in the game). Perhaps we can have Ghyrt clarify on that point when he shows up.

[petroleumjelly]

Eh, I think my list needs a bit of changing.

People Who Should Not Even Be Considered For a Lynch Today:

PetroleumJelly (Rand Al'Thor, Vigilante)
Ghyrt (Logain, Ashaman)
SpamWise (Elaida Sedai, Mason)
Illumina (Siuan Sedai, Mason)
Mystery Meat of Doom (Confirmed Information)

People Likely to be Town:

Tamuz (You should all know my speculation on this role)
MrBuddyLee (I'm hooked on a feelin'...)
Fritzler (Again, just a feelin')

People I have No Clue On:

Lordy
Armlx (And replacement)
Bascas (And replacement, I assume)
Anonymities (TheManHimself/AmeliaSlay)
Machiavellian-Mafia



It should be noted that all people in the "I have no Clue on" category are hearby now categorized as:

VIGBAIT

So if you don't want to be Vigged, I suggest you do stuff to convince me not to Vig you. Aren't I nice? I have basically been taking out the person whose play I liked the least every single night.

Only

you

can prevent yourself from being Vigged. *Smiles half-crazily*

Also, the people in my "People Likely to be Town" category may be bumped down as the day goes along, if I catch vibes on them. Fair warning.

Mod

, We're probably going to need a replacement for Bascas.

[petroleumjelly]

That's up to you, Lordy.

Personally, I would rather have you not claim right now. What I want are people to give their suspicions, accompanied with reasons. I only claimed because I realized the town was going to make itself think the kill last night came from a SK or something, when I know for a fact that the kill came from me, and I didn't want the town to be side-tracked by something I knew was incorrect.

Still liking my Bascas vote, although I think he's gonna have to be replaced.

[petroleumjelly]

Yeah, I had a feeling about that Fritz when I read all your posts along with Max/Lordy. Moving up now.

People Who Should Not Even Be Considered For a Lynch Today:

PetroleumJelly (Rand Al'Thor, Vigilante)
Ghyrt (Logain, Ashaman)
SpamWise (Elaida Sedai, Mason)
Illumina (Siuan Sedai, Mason)
Mystery Meat of Doom (Confirmed Information)

People Likely to be Town:

Tamuz (You should all know my speculation on this role)
MrBuddyLee (I'm hooked on a feelin'...)
Fritzler (Again, just a feelin')
Lordy (See: Fritz)

People I have No Clue On/VIGBAIT:

Armlx (And replacement)
Bascas (And replacement, I assume)
Anonymities (TheManHimself/AmeliaSlay)
Machiavellian-Mafia

[petroleumjelly]

T_T

Please try not to claim (or hint at) things so much, guys. I want to hear suspicions. When I say "convince me I shouldn't Vig you", I am talking more along the lines of "convince me somebody besides you needs to be Vigged".

[petroleumjelly]

Anonymities has basically already role-claimed.

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Bascas, Vote: Lowell

.

How's it going, scum?

[petroleumjelly]

pj: an uncounterclaimed Rand is as close to a confirmed innocent as we can get. Have you really been so confident in your abilities that you saw a vig every night as the right plays? Why do you feel mmod's knowledge of your broomhead order clears him?

1.) Yup. If I don't like the way somebody is playing, I decided beforehand in this game that I'll just Vig them. It makes it so I don't have to worry about lynching them (or somebody else wanting to lynch them) the next day as well, so I can search for as many scum as possible. As it happened, for about every pair of players I have picked throughout the game, at least one has been scum. I Vig one, and then push for a lynch on the other: and as far as I know, we have lynched scum every day, and I've also taken out a scum at night.

At this point I would wager the town greatly outnumbers the scum, I am more than willing to play a game of attrition. I'll kill everybody who I think is least likely to be town. Call it callous, but it gets the job done.

2.) MMoD has had a few pieces of information. Firstly, he called out the fact (although technically unproven) that BabyJesus had been collared (on Night Three, iirc). He has also mentioned the distinct possibility of neutral roles, which until that time, had not been considered as a real possibility. Also, he called out the information that I (unknowingly) ordered Broomhead to kill himself

before

I ever offered that information to the town: I see absolutely no reason for scum to have that information. As it is, since he has given verifiable information to the town, I consider him

much

more cleared than most of the players remaining.

For the record, though, I don't think my claim

alone

puts me in the clear: I

have

been on pretty much every single scum-lynch in the game. Don't I get plus points for that?

[petroleumjelly]

The first page is simply the current state of the game, Lowell. When the game began, everybody was still alive (except for those who died Night Zero). As you read, the number of people alive was slowly whittled down to who you see today. ^_^

[petroleumjelly]

Unvote: Lowell

, pretty fast five votes there. I wish it were humanly possible to present actual cases against people in this game, but there has been so much lurking and so little actual position-taking it is difficult to do.

Wouldn't mind a claim from Lowell soon, as well as who he suspects the most.

[petroleumjelly]

No. Then scum will probably try to kill me overnight. I would rather lynch scum before they have that chance. Besides, if we No-Lynch, I would probably just Vig Lowell at this point anyways, which rather goes against the point of No-Lynching.

Also, if there is a cult (which would be incredibly stupid since we are never told people's alignments, and I would thus have to kill Macros) giving them an extra night without fear of a lynch does us no good.

[petroleumjelly]

And to be honest, I

will

point out that Elaida isn't exactly a "good" character within the WoT Series. She is the Amyrlin of the White Tower, but during her reign, she has unseated and stilled Siuan Sanche and Leanne Whateverherlastnameis (makes me wonder why Siuan and Elaida would be Masons in the first place), kidnapped Rand Al'Thor, and is holding Egwene Al'Vera hostage (for proclaiming to be the true Amyrlin) within the White Tower with the intent to have her stilled (and perhaps executed). All and all, she is considered an antagonistic character, although it

has not

been shown whether she is working for the Dark Lord. Small plus points there.

Makes me wonder if I should slide you down a notch, actually, but I'll keep you as-is for now.

[petroleumjelly]

And okay:

I have since skimmed other games of Macros', and I have officially decided that:

He puts too many fricking scums in his games

.

For example, if you look at his Minas Tirith game, out of 22 players, 10 (count 'em TEN) players were scum.

Since we have about 8 dead scum so far... I would imagine there are probably 5-6 scum roaming about if Macros is consistent with his games. Hell if I know where their nightkills have gone. But I think I will play it safe.

Mass-claiming might be the way to go here. If we do mass-claim, I think I should be the person determining the order of claims (seeing as I

am

Rand Al'Thor and all, and if you disagree with me, I'll just Vig you anyways). Screw being "nice" to the scum just because I don't think they were given safe claims: the town has clearly earned this win already by what I believe is a 100% lynching record.

It's great to be crazy, sometimes. And in accordance with my post above,

FoS: SpamWise

.

Why

exactly did you bring up No-Lynching? I am genuinely curious.

[petroleumjelly]

Also, Skylink, it is more than possible that scum may try to claim somebody else's role. And if they wish to avoid

that

, they are going to have claim fringe characters (such as Yosarian2 claiming Merilille).

At this point, if two people claim the same name, we lynch one, and if that person was telling the truth, I'll Vig the other. It's entirely simple. There are no downsides to mass-claiming at this point,

especially

since Anonymities (Doctor/Semi-Role-Blocker) has claimed. For the record, I already gathered Anonymities was Loial (seeing as he hinted at being Ogier earlier, as well as Priest roles) and I wish he would have waited before he claimed (since he

may

have been able to counter-claim somebody).

Please nobody else claim until the subject has been discussed. I will also tell the town in what order I want people to claim if the town agrees to it.

Unvote: Lowell

, we gots lots to discuss. Thoughts?

[petroleumjelly]

And Anonymities,

after

everybody claims (which is what I want to happen), I want you to claim each person you have protected/semi-role-blocked each night. You may, for all we know, have role-blocked scum in the process, and your actions could considerably narrow down our list of suspects (at least those who would kill with the One Power).

[petroleumjelly]

^_^ So happah.

Order I would like to people to claim in (and I want each person's name, ability, and past night actions), from top to bottom:

Lowell
Skylink
Machiavellian-Mafia
Lordy
Fritzler
MrBuddyLee
Tamuz
Mystery Meat of Doom

If you are counter-claiming somebody's

name

, you are allowed to jump in at any time. Otherwise, keep with the list, please.

[petroleumjelly]

Eh... I can deal with that.

Role-Name and Ability, then. We'll have everybody divulge night-targets after everybody has claimed.

[petroleumjelly]

Trust me Lowell, claiming townie means scum are going to want to kill other people before you.

Skylink, you're next. Machiavellian-Mafia after that.

[petroleumjelly]

Also, for Fritzler:

No can do. I already have educated guesses on what MrBuddyLee, Tamuz, and Mystery Meat of Doom are going to claim (and would probably believe

them

if the counter-claimed somebody). I do

not

know what you and Lordy are going to claim.

Therefore, you will stay in your spot on the list. Just be happy I'm letting you claim after Lordy.

[petroleumjelly]

Well, he said he would be gone throughout the weekend.

Undoubtedly to make a fake-claim, but that's not the point.

[petroleumjelly]

Babyjesus (replaced - Bacde) - killed night 3 - Alanna Sedai

Ok, sorry, but I had trouble getting on my computer.
I was originally against this, but, I am

Alanna Mosvani

I'm a townie. I have a 50% chance of counter killing anybody that targets me with a night ability, be it a kill or anything else.

Unless there are two Alanna's and I'm just forgetting, I think we just found today's lynch.

Continue with the mass-claim, please. Machiavellian-Mafia, you're up next.

[petroleumjelly]

Interesting. I'll be asking you some questions concerning your role after everybody else has claimed, M-M.

Lordy, you're up next. After that, we'll have Fritz claim his role (since he has already claimed Aviendha), and then I might actually have to skip over MrBuddyLee since he will be away for vacation if I recall correctly.

[petroleumjelly]

Makes sense. After you claimed Aviendha, I actually figured Lordy was Elayne. And I think I can anticipate all three claims we're about to have.

Also, I'm bored too. But we'll lynch Skylink soon enough. Hehehe...

Tamuz, MrBuddyLee, Mystery Meat of Doom, I think you three can actually claim in any order you want. First to get to the thread gets some jelly!

[petroleumjelly]

Interesting. I thought you were going to claim somebody else.

I am

very

interested in Tamuz's claim now.

[petroleumjelly]

Indeed.

I thought Tamuz was going to claim Thom Merrelin (with his rhyming), MMoD was going to claim Juilin Sandir (who would obviously be in a position to

listen to rumors

, although Thom Merrelin also matches that position), and I thought MBL was going to claim somebody different (won't say who yet).

Awaiting Tamuz's claim.

[petroleumjelly]

Tamuuuuuz! Claim, please. I know you've posted elsewhere.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm.

I know that Masema betrayed Perrin in Book 11, and has been a general thorn in Rand's side despite being his Prophet (much like Mazrim Taim "works" for Rand, but to what extent is questionable). I won't be tossing you away as a suspect based on that claim.

I also have to take it that the bandwagon didn't need to reach lynch status, seeing as you haven't mentioned any adverse affects of not lynching Flay D1. I don't understand why you have to talk in rhyming triplets, Masema never did that in the books.

I'll vote for Skylink soon enough, but I want results from Machiavellian-Mafia first.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, and

FoS: MrBuddyLee

. At the moment, he is my Vig target for tonight.

He has defended two seperate Forsaken, and has recently attempted to direct any Cops to use their investigations on me. His claim of Juilin is a fairly weak character, and I would very much imagine that Juilin would have an ability of some sort (such as receiving rumors, trapping players [role-blocker], etc.). I was actually expecting him to claim Matt Cauthon, for the record. Interesting how Matt does not appear to be in the game when the other characters from Rand's hometown were.

At this point, MBL will have to convince me to Vig somebody else if he doesn't want to die. I would like the town to discuss each of my Viggings as well.

Right now, the people I am most willing to Vig in order:
MrBuddyLee
Tamuz
Machiavellian-Mafia
**SpamWise

I can see any of these four players being possible scum with their claims. MBL's claim seems like a false fringe character (much like CDB's claim of Valan Luca). Tamuz's character I can easily see as being evil. M-M makes me wonder if there is a cult-mechanic, or a role which triggers evil roles. And SpamWise

did

claim Elaida (a fairly antagonistic character) from a Masonry known to have scum in it, but this is the Vigging I would be least happy about.

Skylink is still the lynch today, I think we just have a bit more work to do.

[petroleumjelly]

Mystery Meat of Doom, Alanna has

already been in the game

. Skylink claimed a character who has already died (BabyJesus'/Bacde's character). Therefore, he is lying scum. In addition, his predecessor Armlx was fairly scummy in the first place (and in fact, Axelrod presented a fair case against Armlx early in the game).

Still waiting on MBL.

[petroleumjelly]

Yes, Alanna Mosvani is Alanna Sedai. "Sedai" is an honoric title given to Aes Sedai (female channelers).

Nynaeve Al'Maera, for example, is equivalent to Nynaeve Sedai.

[petroleumjelly]

Hush, young scum. *pats head* Thy shall be lynched soon.

Still waiting to see what MBL has to say about me wanting to kill him, and all.

[petroleumjelly]

Same argument could be made of the Doctor, Valan Luca. If we lynch him, we're obviously mentally challenged. Don't try to make me feel guilty about having suspicions.

Yes, I would love to hear your Cop results. Especially since you made the suggestion that Cops ought to investigate me. Why would you make that suggestion at all if you were a Cop? And why (I take it) haven't you investigated me yet?

[petroleumjelly]

MBL, I think that out of the

claims

which are on the table, yours was the weakest claim.

Dead Forsaken

Karn1, Demandred, Claimed "Nynaeve, Lie Detector"
Mr. Flay, Mesaana
Logicticus, Lanfear

Dead Black Ajah

Shamrock, Galina Sedai
Axelrod, Linadrin Sedai
Yosarian2, Alviarin Sedai

Dead Darkfriends + Other Possible Scum

Mariyta, Mazrim Taim
ChannelDelibird, Padan Fain, claimed "Valan Luca, Doctor"

Masonic Aes Sedai

The Silent Speaker, Verin Sedai [DEAD]
BabyJesus, Alanna Sedai [DEAD]
Spamwise, Elaida Sedai
Illumina, Siuan Sedai

Other Aes Sedai

PookytheMagicalBear, Moriane Sedai[DEAD]

Major Characters, Often With Rand Al'Thor

PetroleumJelly, Rand Al'Thor, Vigilante
Yamahako, Nynaeve Sedai, Doctor [DEAD]
Albert the Great, Perrin Aybara [DEAD]
Mudbuck, Min [DEAD]
Cyan, Egwene Sedai [DEAD]
Fritzler, Aviendha
Lordy, Elayne Sedai
Mystery Meat of Doom, Thom Merrelin

Fringe Characters, Often Paired with Another Major Character

MrBuddyLee, Juilin Sandir, Cop
Anonymities, Loial, RB/Doc
Ghyrt, Logain
Tamuz, Masema
Lowell, Lan Mandragoan
Fuldu, Brigitte Silverbow [DEAD]

Odd Claim

Machiavellian-Mafia, Marath-Damane, Collarer

Scum Claim

Skylink

*****

So all in all, MBL, your claim wasn't exactly a "major" character, and seeing as I had thought you were Matt Cauthon since pretty much Day Two, the fact that you ended up claiming a minor character [Who is just a tag-along with Thom Merrelin at best] was what piqued my interest. Nevertheless, I see no reason to Vig you tonight now so long as you keep the investigations coming.

Anybody have a Vig suggestion for tonight?

[petroleumjelly]

After looking at the list, I'm thinking one of:

Tamuz, Masema
Machiavellian-Mafia, Marath-Damane

It

might

be that Skylink is the last scum and I am just wasting my time, but I would rather plan for worst case scenario.

[petroleumjelly]

I already checked your actions in the game, MBL, I think they match reasonably well with your investigations. Notice how I took you off the list? You're still in the "Fringe Character" category, because your claimed character

is

a fringe character. Nothing to be done about that. Fritz doesn't have a Vig ability, unless it is used via Machiavellian-Mafia.

On that note, I am wondering why exactly it would be necessary for there to be a second Vigilante in the game, so M-M is on my list of possible targets. I suppose I technically don't

have

to use my ability tonight, but I am essentially a Cop who happens to kill who he investigates.

And whoops, just realized you had an innocent investigation on Tamuz, that will buy him some time for now. My current pet theory on the game, however, is that the Dark One is

somewhere

in the game, and might possibly be a Godfather role which would win with any scum group (see Macros' Minas Tirith game for a similar role).

Otherwise I might take out Anonymities. He is a claimed vanilla townie, who although claiming a recognizable character, also claimed somebody I consider to be a fringe character.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, shoot, I didn't mean Anonymities, wow. I Meant Lowell (who claimed Lan). *slaps forehead* Messed up brain thought there (Lowell -> Loial -> Anonymities).

Apologies. Anonymities, yours was actually one the role-claims I believed the most, because of the fact that you protected/RB'd me, but saw afterwards that it's not

me

who is doing the killing, but my Ashaman. It all fits very well, Loial is a likely character, and your ability makes perfect sense.

If you weren't Rand, I'd find that very, very

dicey

behavior.

Now see, you're hinting at Matt Cauthon. And don't go tripping over yourself, now.

Further, I said I

thought

you were going to claim Matt Cauthon. Just because you

think

somebody is going to claim something doesn't mean you can't be suspicious of them.

And also, I am not suspecting you

just

because you had a fringe character: from my perspective, you

did

defend TWO seperate Forsaken on Day One. Should I just toss that away? I've been suspicious of you for quite a while. This is Mafia. It's only natural.

Your plausibility only rose up after you gave your investigations, which matches your behavior more in the game. I don't believe I ever flipped or flopped on the issue: you claimed a fringe character,

and

you were somebody I was suspiciuos of. The same thing went for CDB: he was somebody I was suspicious of, and he claimed a fringe character. And he was scum.

Also, I know that Pooky (Moraine) found me on Night Two. He never really talked to me all that much (lazy bum), but he also never mentioned the presence of Lan in the game [although I was not aware of the presence of any other characters upon the game's start either].

[petroleumjelly]

And further:

MMoD as Juilin Sandir made sense, because Sandir would hear rumors (which would explain his actions throughout the game). Also, since I thought Tamuz was Thom Merrelin (given his rhyming restriction), Sandir was the only role I could think that really matched MMoD.

When you originally claimed Juilin Sandir, on the other hand, you

did not

claim an ability, which led me to believe that you were either holding out to see what abilities

other

people would claim, or that you were a vanilla townie. My mind changes when I have more informcation to deal with. Since your claim, there has been more information on to think on.

[petroleumjelly]

When you originally claimed Juilin Sandir, on the other hand, you

did not

claim an ability, which led me to believe that you were either holding out to see what abilities

other

people would claim, or that you were a vanilla townie.

I said I was a "Thief-catcher" and I thought you of all people would pick up on that.

And I have this habit of not

assuming

role-claims from other people, or claiming

for

them. Juilin's title is that of Thief-Catcher, just as Rand Al'Thor's title is the Dragon Reborn.

[petroleumjelly]

Well, you didn't assume I was Matt or Tamuz was Thom or mmod was juilin then... you just thought it was likely, eh?

Yes. They were my

educated guesses

based on the information I saw in-thread and what I considered to be likely. And yes: my educated guesses (call the hunches, gut, whatever you will) correlate to whether or not I want to lynch somebody.

After my nameclaim, for whatever reason, you plopped me atop your vig list. I just found it strange that you didn't offer my claim up the same luxury.

I already

explained

my reasons. Why do you keep dismissing them?

1.) You defended Karn1 (Forsaken) Day One
2.) You defended Mr Flay (Forsaken) Day One

There are others, but those are

more

than sufficient for me to keep an eye on you. When you claimed, you claimed a fringe character, and you did not claim ability. At the time, you were the least verified role, with a fairly weak claim, who I had already considered suspicious. That's was more than enough for me to want to Vig you.

I wasn't just going to go "Oh, well, he claimed Thief-Catcher: He's probably just a Cop who hasn't given us any results for five straight days, so I'll leave him alone." I need to poke at you to get you to talk: funny how easily death-threats get people to spill things. And through your claim, I am now considering Tamuz much more likely to be innocent, and I am more sure that I have nothing to fear from my own Ashaman. You have already been taken

off

my Vig list, but if you are going to continue trying to cast suspicion on me, don't be surprised if I slap you back on.

Current Vig target: Lowell

[petroleumjelly]

Eh, I understand your concern. That doesn't mean I have to like it. For what it's worth, if the game continues much longer, I fully expect to die (and to be frank, I've pretty much thought I would die about every night of this game). Scum can't exactly risk keeping a Vigilante alive: one shot and they're dead.

[petroleumjelly]

Well, argh. I just reread Lowell's claim, and it

really

sounds like he's being truthful. Why?! Why must I be cursed with such indecision?

I suppose I could forego Vigging tonight, but I honestly think it's to the town's advantage to basically lynch two people at once (one via lynch, one via Vig).

I'm thinking Machiavellian-Mafia might be the best target for tonight. I just just checked on Wiki, and here's something interesting:

Marath'damane is an olde tongue word meaning: We are Seanchan. You will be leashed. Resistance is futile.

M-M claims the only Seanchan role in the game, and in fact, Marath-Damane is not a specific

character

(so far that I can see) at all. M-M has, in fact, not claimed a specific Seanchan character in the first place.

By the way, Illumina: can you verify if you were collared last night?

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking M-M could be an all-purpose scum role who is searching for his partners (via Collaring), who cannot be tracked (since the Collared does the killing), and may in fact have the ability to recruit (via Collaring).

I'm actually wondering if it's safer to lynch Machiavellian-Mafia, and then have me Vig Skylink.

Any thoughts?

[petroleumjelly]

If Machiavellian-Mafia can

recruit

people, then yes, it matters very much. That will just add another scumbucket we're gonna have to kill, whereas lynching him now would take away that possibility.

Would like to hear other people's thoughts, though.

[petroleumjelly]

MrBuddyLee, I cannot talk with my Ashaman because I was never even

verified

as to whether or not I had an Ashaman.

My first question to the Mod before the game began was whether or not I really had an Ashaman in the game, and he could neither confirm or deny. I figured my Ashaman was simply my "flavor", until I realized that Broomhead (now Ghyrt) was my Ashaman on Night Two, when he refused to kill himself (quite rightly). This of course led me to believe that Mariyta was lying on Day Two (because I never targeted Mr. Flay) and that she was therefore scum.

And now that I think on it: Ghyrt, does your role explicitly mention that you work for Rand Al'Thor? If so, that might be enough to get MBL to shut his big yap, because he is consistently heading in the wrong direction.

I'm thinking no-kill might be the way to go tonight, as Illumina mentioning that M-M did not want to kill last night checks the story out. Skylink could very well be the last scum for all we know anyways.

[petroleumjelly]

Eh, I'll go with a no-kill tonight, then.

Vote: Skylink

.

[petroleumjelly]

No, I would rather not risk that, Anonymities. For all we know, there may be a scum role-blocker who will role-block

you

which allow my kill to go through on you anyways.

I will be no-killing tonight.

[petroleumjelly]

Eh, I'll go with a no-kill tonight, then.

Now dance, my flesh puppets...

DANCE!

[petroleumjelly]

All right, have fun!

And a word to the wise: you might want to send in your night-choice before you leave, Anonymities, so that way there is less a chance you will be replaced. Gleeman

should

be lenient since you have given him fair warning.

[petroleumjelly]

I no-killed, obviously.

Result from MBL?

[petroleumjelly]

HOLD THE PHONE.

MOD:

Where is Lordy? He is on my list of players in my notes, but he is neither in the Living category nor the Dead category. Am I just missing something, or is this intentional? It should be 12 alive and 7 to lynch.

Until we get

that

cleared up, here are the dead scum:

Black Ajah

Shamrock, Galina Sedai [Scum Mason]
Axelrod, Linadrin Sedai
Yosarian2, Alviarin Sedai [Scum Mason]

Forsaken

Karn1, Demandred
Mr. Flay, Mesaana
Logicticus, Lanfear
Skylink/Armlx, Graendal

Darkfriends/Likely Scum

Mariyta, Mazrim Taim
ChannelDelibird, Padan Fain

I'm thinking there is probably one Black Ajah left to balance out the Forsaken, or something, and that Taim and Fain were Serial Killers or some sort.

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, well, may as well adjust my List.

Almost Certainly Town

-Myself (Obviously)
-Ghyrt
-Mystery Meat of Doom
-Tamuz [Due to Investigation, among other things]
-MrBuddyLee
-Anonymities [Very strong claim, which coincides with my ability]

Very Close to Being Certainly Town

-Machiavellian-Mafia [Odd claim, and despite innocent investigation, I'm still wondering]

Down the Line

-Fritzler
-Lordy (?!)
-SpamWise
-Illumina
-Lowell

***

Since I'm thinking there is probably a Black Ajah gallivanting about, my first thought is that there

might

be a third scum mason. There is no guarantee of innocence in the Masonry, so they are by no means "confirmed" in any way. This is enough to move them back down into the "Down the Line" category. Whatever scum is left, they are well-hidden.

I'm thinking attrition is the way to go. Lynch one, Vig another, investigate the third, while Anonymities randomly protects one of MrBuddyLee or myself. We should be able to outrace the scum with this strategy.

Thoughts?

[petroleumjelly]

Oh. My.

God

. Illumina, I just moved

out

of Tacoma (for school). How strange is that? I'll have to change my Profile in a minute, you just reminded me. Next time I'm in town, though, I'll have to introduce you to Ibby.

PPE: Wow, that sounds border-line stalker-ish, sorry. >.> Just thought it was interesting.

I'll give the game a reread later.

[petroleumjelly]

Almost Certainly Town

-Myself
-Ghyrt
-Mystery Meat of Doom
-Tamuz
-MrBuddyLee
-Anonymitie

Very Close to Being Certainly Town

-Machiavellian-Mafia

Down the Line

-Fritzler
-SpamWise
-Illumina
-Lowell

***

I'm just gonna go up the list, then. My suggested plan of action:

Lynch Lowell or Machiavellian-Mafia. Vig Spamwise. MBL investigate Illumina. Skipping Fritz because he may become more vindicated if Lordy shows up to be town.

I also think Fritz should full-claim at this point. He seemed to skirt around that that somehow yesterday. Plan could easily change based on his claim.

[petroleumjelly]

I don't think you've ever "defended" yourself Lowell, much less "vehemently". All you've done is role-claim and say "but my character is pro-town!" and now "nothing good comes from lynching me". Of course, there isn't much you can defend yourself

from

, although I suppose a case could be made about your predecessor's actions.

If you don't want to be lynched, I highly suggest you

find somebody else you think ought to be lynched

. If you can't, then why

shouldn't

we lynch you? You have no powers, and we have no indication of your alignment other than your role-claim (which very well may be false).

[petroleumjelly]

Eh. It would have been useful to know if the two of you were "confirmed innocents" or anything like that yesterday (as both you and Lordy could vouch for it), but we now we can't exactly take you on your word, especially since we've already had two scum masons.

But anyhow. Still good with the plan. If there are any objections, speak now

and get Vigged

or forever hold your peace.

Vote: Lowell

[petroleumjelly]

Well, there can easily be multiple Mason groups in the same game, Illumina. I was a "Mason" with Pooky/Moraine for a short while before he died, and we could night-talk to each other. Fritz just isn't a part of your particular Masonry.

But eh. I think SpamWise has a good chance of being a Scum Mason, which is why I'm just gonna Vig him tonight. I want MBL to investigate you in case you're a Scum Mason (which I personally find doubtful) or if you've been recruited by M-M (but since M-M has an innocent investigation on him, I am not readily wanting to draw a conclusion that you would be scum because he collared you).

[petroleumjelly]

kk

Yeah, pretty sure Fritz is town. I had forgotten that Elayne and Aviendha become "sisters", and so would obviously know of each other. Also, the fact that you were

told

Lordy was Elayne (instead of not being told, like those in the Aes Sedai Masonry) goes a lot towards your credibility.

Move Fritz up to the "Almost Certainly Town"!

Plan is still:
1.) Lynch Lowell
2.) Vig Spamwise
3.) MrBuddyLee investigates Illumina

If the game is still going, we'll probably lynch M-M tomorrow. And if the game is still going after

that

, then we'll decide what to do when we get there.

Lowell's OMGUS vote on me tells me he's probably scum, though. Happy with my vote.

[petroleumjelly]

Hush. Elayne + Aviendha = Town. Jelly knows his WoT.

Also, you should prolly vote Lowell. He's gonna be gone like Donkey Kong. Dead man walkin' and all.

[petroleumjelly]

Well, that was some rousing discussion. With any luck, we just caught ourselves some scum.

Spamwise, if you'd like to make a case for why I shouldn't Vig you tonight, now's a good time.

[petroleumjelly]

Gah.

Night results from MMoD and MBL?

Target for M-M, and confirmation from target?

[petroleumjelly]

Blood and bloody ashes!

Start posting people. First person to post besides Ghyrt or myself won't be lynched* Go, go, go!





* This could, in fact, be a lie

[petroleumjelly]

*rubs temples*

1.) I claimed Rand Al'Thor, the Dragon Reborn (the protagonist of the entire series), on Day Five, long before pretty much everybody else still alive claimed. So either I

am

Rand Al'Thor (which I am), or I am (seemingly) the only scum given a safe claim. If you believe I am Rand Al'Thor,

how

does me being scum fit

at all

flavor-wise in this game? Every scum has been

evil

. Rand Al'Thor is

good

.

2.) I have helped and directed in all least five scum lynches: Karn1 (Forsaken), Mariyta (Dark Friend?), ChannelDelibird (Dark Friend), Yosarian2 (Black Ajah), and Skylink (Forsaken). I have also nightkilled Logicticus (Forsaken). Pretty damned good aim, for somebody who receives no night information.

3.) I tried to kill Broomhead on Night Two, and this has been

verified

by Mystery Meat of Doom. If you think I am scum with Broomhead/Ghyrt, then

why would I try to nightkill him?

4.) Based on MMoD's information, I was able to tell the town that Ghyrt was my Ashaman before Ghyrt ever claimed: this was also verified by Ghyrt. Ghyrt has also verified that it is the

Dragon

who is in charge of his actions, and not another person.

5.) Ghyrt has been investigated innocent by MrBuddyLee, and we know that MBL is neither Insane nor Naive nor Paranoid from his given investigations. What you say implies that Ghyrt must have investigative immunity.

6.) Pooky (Moraine Sedai) found me on Night Two of the game, as this parallels her role in the books. I'm pretty sure if she could find anybody, it would only be Lan or Rand Al'Thor.

7.) The fact that

I

do not do the killing, but

Ghyrt

does, has been proven, due to the fact that there has been at least one night where I was Doctored/Role-Blocked, and yet our kill still went through.

8.) This would seriously have to be just about the craziest fricking gambit

ever

. You know what this argument reminds me of? That Verbose II game, where me and my Mason partners were accused of setting up a Mason claim since Day One in a 20-person game. There is always room for paranoia, but what you suggest is simply irrational. Don't turn into another Werebear (no offense meant to Werebear, but just his irrational paranoia in that particular game).

[petroleumjelly]

Well, I just remembered that MBL is probably still at Burning Man, so he won't be able to post until he comes back. Here's my list (yours does not have to be identical to mine, obviously):

Pro-Town

PetroleumJelly

Almost Assuredly Pro-Town

Ghyrt* (See below)
MrBuddyLee (I believe the claim 99%)
Anonymities (I believe the claim 99%)
Mystery Meat of Doom (I believe the claim 99%)
Fritzler (Unless Lordy does not come up Elayne, another claim I believe 99%)

Contingently Pro-Town

Tamuz (Only based on Innocent Investigation)
Illumina (Waiting on MBL's result)
Machiavellian-Mafia (Only based on Innocent Investigation)

Note that if Illumina comes back with an innocent investigation, I will move her up to Pro-Town slot. A scum mason with investigative immunity is

bastard-modding

, so we had better not be dealing with something like that, plain and simple.

*Note: And in fact, I have noticed something a little bit odd about the night-kills. On the night where my kill was refused when I tried to kill Broomhead (Night Two), The Silent Speaker vanished. On the night where I no-killed (Night Six), Lordy vanished. Those are the only two instances in the game where balefire (if it was balefire) was used, and they are also the only two nights where my kill either refused or was purposely not used.

Ghyrt: Do you any other abilities that we do not know about? And if so, why didn't you mention them earlier?

[petroleumjelly]

Let's make sure everybody has a reason to post in the thread, then... question time!

Mystery Meat of Doom

: Would you please give

all

of your rumor results for each night, whether or not you think they are relevant to the game?

Fritzler

: Did you and Lordy ever talk at night? Also, who is the play today?

MrBuddyLee

: Firstly, results. Secondly, how was Burning Man?

Machiavellian-Mafia

: Why didn't you collar anybody last night, when you could have tested if somebody was telling the truth about being a female channeler? We have had four dead Forsaken, and only three dead Black Ajah, which implies there may be a fourth Black Ajah (and hence that somebody's claim here may be false).

Anonymities

: Can you give a full list of who you have protected/role-blocked each night? It may help explain the recent paucity in kills.

Illumina

: What have you and Machiavellian-Mafia talked about each night since your collaring?

Ghyrt

: Do you any other abilities that we do not know about? And if so, why didn't you mention them earlier?

Tamuz

: Do you find it strange that you are the only person with a post restriction in the entire game? Also, could you go into detail about what you have been told to do each night, and explain how and when you get your 'information'?

[petroleumjelly]

Awesome. Yeah, Thom Merrelin plays in the "Game of Thrones" (or whatever it's called), and through doing so, hears lots of rumors. I still believe your claim 99%, I was just hoping we might have been able to glean more information from what you have been told.

And I am

seriously

considering the possibility that Ghyrt is scum. He would basically be unviggable (since I cannot kill him), and of course, I would essentially be neutering myself by having him lynched (since that would take away my Vigilante power). I've been wondering how this set-up could be balanced, and I think that would make a rather good explanation.

The fact that Mariyta was

also

technically an Ashaman and yet claimed to have killed Mr. Flay (which I think is false: Mr. Flay was "black and swollen", and after Mariyta was lynched, there was a death the very next night which was "swollen and bloated") on the night where my kill

did not go through

(because Broomhead refused to kill himself) on the same night where TSS

disappeared

is really clicking. Not to mention the fact that the only other night where I did not kill, Lordy disappeared, and those are the only two nights with disappearances is making me think Broomhead/Mariyta could kill use balefare on somebody

so long as

I did not direct them to kill somebody else or themselves.

FoS: Ghyrt

. What do other people think about my theory? I'm wondering if Broomhead/Ghyrt was a "neutral" character up until Night Two (when MBL investigated him), and was turned scum sometime afterwards.

[petroleumjelly]

Hmm. If you believe that might be the case, Ghyrt, you're going to have to find a way to explain away Post 885.

Further, there is another point which ought to be made, so as to emphasize why it would be silly to think I'm scum (regardless of my actions this game) from a balancing point of view:

It is clear that I can only use my killing power by ordering an Ashaman to kill for me: therefore, as soon as my Ashaman die (Mariyta and Broomhead/Ghyrt), I

lose

my ability to kill.

It is further clear that I cannot nightkill my own Ashaman, and it should be

further

clear that I am

not

part of the Forsaken scum group or the Black Ajah scum group (or

any

scum group, but this is meant as a hypothetical). This would strongly imply that I would have be a SK of some sort. However, an SK who has two people they cannot kill (the Ashaman) and who cannot kill as soon as those two very people die is so incredibly weak, even arguing it as a possibility is a gigantic stretch, since there is practically no chance for such a role to win a game, and even less a chance for such a role to win a game this large.

[petroleumjelly]

MBL, have you gotten your results from Gleeman yet?

My suspicions are still consistent with Post 875, except I am becoming increasingly suspicious of Ghyrt. As it is, though, I think it is to my advantage to keep him alive another night so that I may keep my Vigilante power for a short while longer.

Mod

, are you ever going to reveal Lordy's role? I expect he was Elayne, but I would like confirmation, seeing it has been over a day since he has disappeared from the game.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh, joy... Lordy's posts have disappeared. I suppose that means the balefire gets stronger every night, or something. Argh, I hate that kind of mechanic.

In any case:

Pro-Town

PetroleumJelly

Almost Assuredly Pro-Town

MrBuddyLee (I believe the claim 99%)
Anonymities (I believe the claim 99%)
Mystery Meat of Doom (I believe the claim 99%)
Fritzler (I believe the claim 90%... Lordy's absence is disturbing)
Illumina (An investigative innonecent Mason is bastard-moddery)

Contingently Pro-Town

Ghyrt (Only based on

early

Innocent Investigation)
Tamuz (Only based on Innocent Investigation)
Machiavellian-Mafia (Only based on Innocent Investigation)

I think the play today is to lynch Machiavellian-Mafia, and I'll Vig Tamuz (who is consistently claiming an

extremely

vague role, and in my experience, vague roles are often fake-claims by scum... it is further apparant that he is the

only

person acting like he has a post restriction. Further, I don't believe a role that makes 'bandwagons' is a feasilbe role: a 'bandwagon' is subjective).

I would

suggest

(but I will no longer direct) that MrBuddyLee investigate either Fritzler, myself, or perhaps Ghyrt a second time (since I believe he may have been a neutral character turned evil).

Opinions?

[petroleumjelly]

Honestly you think I'm scum?
Would I have led two of opposing groups to death so glum?
Or are you just acting blind deaf and dumb?

Say, nice hypocrisy. Are

you

blind deaf and dumb? Perhaps you kinda missed my voting and Vigging record, eh?

1.) Push on Karn1 (Forsaken Scum), with the 14 points list which made sure he was lynched after his claim
2.) Push on ChannelDelibird very early on Day One until he was lynched Day Three (Darkfriend Scum)
3.) Outing and lynching Skylink (Black Ajah Scum)
4.) Vigging Logicticus (Forsaken Scum)
5.) Making sure Mariyta's claim of being a Vigilante by herself ended with her being lynched (Possible Darkfriend Scum)

So I've helped lynch probably

three

factions of scum. And you think

I'm

scum? Nice.

And as a note, perhaps WIFO-meea
Had I been scum, could I not have claimed Caufin with glee?
No, I tell the truth of who I am and what I do to thee

Explain this statement. Who is "Caufin"? I do not remember any such character.

My role is not to make bandwagons

But I was forced to create just that one 'nigh Hagen
For Masema instills fervor in the name of the Dragon.

Wait wait wait... then what about these statements?

I must have lead a wagon

In my service to the great Dragon
But for now I'm as good as a drunk without a flagon.

And a side note:

Channel is who some would kill
I see this as a bandwagon of will
without substance a-fill

You defended a Darkfriend. You could be part of a Darkfriend scumgroup in general. Masema is

not

a nice character in the books, and he has killed many innocents. For as much as you are trying to throw doubt on

my

character, you are doing well in avoiding your

own

character flaws.

I must've led a bandwagon

Or my life I'd take with a flagon
For rabblerousing is a skill I've taken.

On top of that I think

my role's frame
Was here to jump start the game
Hence the bandwagon

and random results exclaimed.

So THREE TIMES you have said that you are supposed to have led bandwagons... and now you claim that

aren't

supposed to make bandwagons? Explain that one for me, I beg of you.

The role you are claiming is:

VAGUE.

And vague claims almost always lead to scum. Either explain

everything

about your role, or you get Vigged tonight.

[petroleumjelly]

Quick response (taking a break from homework):

Aviendha is actually one of the three people who Rand loves most (Elayne, Aviendha, and Min) and must love equally. I am certain all three of those characters would be pro-town, especially since, at the very least, Min was pro-town (although we will apparantly never find out about Elayne, I have no reason to believe Lordy was scum).

And also, I don't believe you

have

explained all you know. Here is a short list of what I want from you:

1.) What night you were told about Mr. Flay
2.) What night you were told about Yosarian2
3.) What your exact conditions are to stay alive, or what the consequences are if you fail to produce bandwagons, or if you fail your 'post restriction'

Further, if you had claimed Matt Cauthon, I would have lynched you. Matt Cauthon has absolutely no reason to talk in rhymes. As it is, saying that Masema has a reason to talk in rhymes is a large stretch, as the only type of character I can feasibly see with that sort of restriction would be a Gleeman (i.e. Thom Merrelin).

As it is, I don't even understand why the Mod would create a role who is

told

who the scum are without having them investigate anybody! That seems pretty messed up to me.

Tell me who you think should be Vigged besides you, and present a reason why. I am just having a hard time trying to picture your role PM, because it would have to look something like this:

You are Masema, the Prophet, and servant of the Dragon Reborn. You must talk in triplets, each of which must rhyme. If you fail this restriction, something terrible will happen. You must also start a bandwagon on Day One due to your rabble rousing skills. But I'll make it easier for you by telling you one of the scum you can bandwagon! It's Mr. Flay, by the way. Boy, wouldn't it suck if he died on Night Zero and you couldn't create a bandwagon on him on Day One? Yeah, you would be pretty screwed if that happened. Anyways, if you fail to create a bandwagon on Mr. Flay, something terrible will happen. I will also randomly tell you another scum or two if you keep living throughout, even though you don't have an investigative power.

The more I think about, the less likely your role seems to be. Is

anybody

else's role this needlessly complicated?

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, I'm gonna line up the info as we have gotten it from myself, MrBuddy, MMoD, the collarings, and random information. I consider the three of us the most cleared people in the game, with Anonymies being almost just as cleared simply for his claim and how it coincided with my claim. I'll switch my notes from "Night Zero - Night Six" to "Night One - Night Seven" to avoid confusion.

Night One

:
1.) PJ sends Ashaman to kill Mudbuck (Mudbuck already killed by somebody else)
2.) MBL investigates Pooky, gets an innocent result
3.) MMoD learns that there are neutral roles which can be won over by shadow
*4.) M-M tries to collar MBL, fails = MBL not a female channeler

Night Two

:
1.) PJ sends Ashaman to kill Broomhead/Ghyrt (refused)
2.) MBL investigates Broomhead/Ghyrt, learns "there is reason to fear, but not evil"
3.) MMoD learns something about "can protect, stop, and control shadow" (I don't understand this one)
*4.) TSS disappears
*5.) M-M tries to collar PJ, fails = PJ not a female channeler

Night Three

:
1.) PJ sends Ashaman to kill Albert the Great
2.) MBL investigates Logicticus, gets guilty result
3.) MMoD learns that on Night Two, TSS vanished, and a player refused to kill himself
*4.) Pooky (Moriane) finds PJ (Rand)
*5.) BJ collared, success = BJ a female channeler

Night Four

:
1.) PJ sends Ashaman to kill Logicticus
2.) MBL investigates TSS, led to ChannelDelibird, gets guilty result
3.) MMoD learns that on Night Three, BJ was collared and somebody found another person, who MMoD doesn't like (Moraine), but the result is good (i.e. two good guys hook up, PJ and Pooky)
*4.) Yos2 collared, success = Yos2 a female channeler

Night Five

:
1.) PJ sends Ashaman to kill Cyan
2.) MBL investigates Tamuz, gets innocent result
3.) MMoD learns that some people can communicate, but some of those communicators can't be trusted
*4.) Illumina collared, success = Illumina a female channeler

Night Six

:
1.) PJ does not send his Ashaman to do anything
2.) MBL investigates Machiavellian-Mafia, gets a "not malicious" result
3.) MMoD learns that on Night Five,

MBL did not catch anybody

, and that Illumina was collared
*4.) M-M claims to have collared Lordy, success = Lordy a female channeler
*5.) Lordy disappeared

Night Seven

:
1.) PJ sends his Ashaman to kill Spamwise
2.) MBL investigates Illumina, gets a "sense of growing fearsome power, but no evil"
3.) MMoD learns that on Night Six, there was not much hostile intent
*4.) M-M claims to have collared nobody

So actually, MMoD's role (I think) just helped clear Tamuz. Since MMoD was told explicitly that MBL did not "catch anybody", and that night MBL investigated Tamuz, it might add up to mean that Tamuz might not be a GF role.

Also, note that MMoD's role also goes to clear me: it verifies that I

did

ask my Ashaman Broomhead to kill himself on Night Two, and therefore I could not have been the cause of TSS's disappearance. Further, he goes to show that two people found each other on Night Three (Pooky and PJ), and that although he does not like one of those people (Moraine), the result is good (as in two good guys hooking up).

M-M can still be a GF role who investigates as innocent when he himself takes no action (as we know he took no actions on Night Six, the night MBL investigated him... but instead have ordered Illumina to use balefare on Lordy, although he

claims

to have collared Lordy). Further, we know there was "not much hostile intent" on Night Six from MMoD, and if M-M is hostile (but was simply "not hostile") on Night Six, that fits in him with investigating as "not malicious"

for just Night Six

, since it would have been Illumina using the balefare (not hostilely: she would be

forced into it

) rather than M-M.

Look what all can be done with a bit o' critical thinking!

In short...

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

. I think you are a GF role who investigates innocent so long as you yourself take no night actions on the night in which you are investigated.

People who I will

not not

want to Vig tonight:
1.) Myself
2.) MBL
3.) MMoD
4.) Anonymities
5.) Tamuz
6.) Illumina (Unless M-M specifically comes up as a Cult Leader role)
7.) Fritzler (I believe his claim of Aviendha, and that she would be pro-town)

People who I will very likely

fail

at Vigging tonight:
1.) Ghyrt (an Ashaman will not kill himself when ordered, as we have learned

I think the scum are M-M and Ghyrt.

I suggest we lynch M-M today. I would

also

suggest that Anonymities

role-blocks Ghyrt

, so that he cannot kill tonight.

Any objections?

[petroleumjelly]

Ah, shoot, now I'm mixing two things together. I just said that both Ghyrt might be the person who uses balefire, or that M-M might force female channelers into using balefire. *sigh*

And actually... I am going to check my PM's to see if I was ever told of an "attempted collaring" on Night Two. I do not recall ever receiving such a PM. And I can't believe that didn't occur to me until just now. >< Argh.

[petroleumjelly]

Nope, I have no PM's telling me about a failed collaring attempt on me for Night Two. The only info I have about Night Two is that my Ashaman refused my orders. Damnit, this game probably could have been over yesterday if I was thinking straight.

Confirm Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

.

DIE DIE SUCK DIE SCUM DIE.

[petroleumjelly]

Nope, M-M is the lynch today. I'll show you why.

1.) Once we lynch Ghyrt, I lose my Vig ability, since I will no longer have Ashaman to order about
2.) Even if I somehow

kept

my killing ability (which would not happen), if Anonymities targets M-M, M-M will be protected from kills as well as role-blocked (so that he still could not be killed)
3.) As we have learned (by me being role-blocked/protected on a night where I successfully ordered my Ashaman into killing), Anonymities

does not stop orders from being issued

. So, for example, if M-M is role-blocked/protected by Anonymities tonight, M-M would

still

be able to use his killing ability by ordering Illumina to use balefire (I suspect), mooting the reason for having him role-blocked in the first place.

Thou shalt not sully thy good name of Jelly Al'Thor! M-M is totally the play today.

[petroleumjelly]

Yes, that's exactly what we think happened to Lordy. Balefire is a technique which causes the target to have ceased to exist for a period of time: sometimes for a few seconds, minutes, hours... or if very powerful, somebody will ceased to have exist before they were born (how that makes any realistic sense, I don't know, but I'm not Robert Jordan). If Lordy ceased to have existed, then everything he has said has

also

ceased to have existed (so his posts were deleted, it would seem).

Also, there really is no question for the M-M lynch to me. If MBL was told that he had failed to be collared on Night One, and I was

not

told if I was ever an intended collaring target on Night Two (and yet everybody else knows when they've been collared), I think that's a good indicator that M-M did

not

target me on Night Two, so that he is lying about who he collared (i.e. he

did

collar a female channeler, which allowed him to order them into using balefire Night Two), and that he is scummity-scum-scum.

[petroleumjelly]

1.) Why does this game need

two

Vigilantes when scum can already cross-kill (and we have in fact had two instances of scum cross-kills that we know of, being Shamrock and Axelrod)?

Also, Balefire is a

use

of The Power. Female channelers use The Power, and female channelers can use balefare (although I would think only

strong

female channelers would be able to accomplish this, a game here does not necessary need to correlate fully to the books).

2.) On Night Six, when you were investigated by MBL, we don't actually

know

if you tries to collar Lordy: that's simply what you claimed. All MBL was told is that there was no "malicious intent" from you... so you may instead have ordered Illumina (who was already collared at that point) to use balefire on Lordy, which means it was Illumina who was killing, and not you: noteworthy is that MBL did not get a strict "innocent" result on you. If you are ordering people around, you are not making a night action (as was proven by me being able to successfully order my Ashaman, Ghyrt, into killing on a night where

I

was, in fact, protected and role-blocked).

3.) Sure thing, we'll see if Gleeman ever gets back to me on that.

Unvote: M-M

for discussion, there is plenty to talk about now (unlike

yesterday

, at least).

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, I got the collaring message just now. *sigh* Just when I thought I was onto something good.

Still not opposed to an M-M lynch, but I'll see if I can't dig anything else up. Does anybody have any cases to present about anything? It seems like it's just me talking and then everybody responding at this point.

[petroleumjelly]

I think PJ should be lynched before me, if it comes to that But we're a long way from discussing that, unless of course I disappear tonight.

MBL, I have

never

been lynched while I have been pro-town, and I absolutely

refuse

to be lynched while I am pro-town (especially when my play has been this damned

good

). And any idiot reading this game knows that I am protown. My actions have been protown, I have consistently hunted for scum, my claim and actions of Vigilante have been substantiated and verified (by both Ghyrt, and MMoD's information

confirming

that I ordered Ghyrt to kill himself Night Two, which means I

could not have used balefire

), my character is the PROTAGONIST OF THE SERIES in a game where the scum had NO SAFE CLAIMS (from what we can gather), MMoD's information confirms that Pooky and I hooked up for the better of the town, I have considered multiple possibilities and put some actual critical thinking into this game (as opposed to simply following the group, as most people seem to have done), and I could go on and on.

If I am lynched, this town

deserves to lose

, plain and simple. I suggest you start hunting for scum, as opposed to trying to set me up for a lynch later in the game.

[petroleumjelly]

I still think my original plan is good.

1.) Lynch Mach-M
2.) Anonymities Role-Blocks/Protects Ghyrt. I will No-Kill. If there is an example of balefire tomorrow night, then we know Ghyrt is not the originator of that balefire. If there is no example of balefire (and I would assume there would also be no kills if there is no balefire), then we know that either Ghyrt is the balefire killer, or the scum No-Killed. That would, of course, mean there would be 8 players tomorrow,

and

MBL will have another investigation,

and

MMoD will have heard another rumor.

At that point, we can No-Lynch again, Role-Block/Protect Ghyrt again, I will No-Kill again, and if there is ever a use of balefire during such a process, we will know the user is not Ghyrt. If not, we can simply continue No-Lynching, and while we're at it, we will be getting investigations and rumors up the wazzoo. There is really no point in not allowing MBL to investigate everybody if we can have that done, since people who had innocent investigations on them

early

in the game may have since turned to the shadow (as suggested by MMoD).

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

.

[petroleumjelly]

*Should probably clarify that:

"I will No-Kill" is actually redundant, since if I tried to send in a kill, it would be role-blocked, seeing as Ghyrt is the person who would be carrying my killing. I can send in a night-choice if the town wishes, but it would be fruitless.

[petroleumjelly]

Seriously, Marath-Damane. The more I think about it, the sillier this has been.

Do you guys think Gleeman is going to show up and tell us to

mourn

the death of a Marath-Damane, a

nameless

Seanchan who enslaves female channelers for her own purposes? Ugh. We should have lynched him yesterday.

[petroleumjelly]

You people are impossible.

1.) There actually

were

quite a few 'prominent' Seanchan in the books. Exactly how much have you

read

of the series? This is probably a slight spoiler, so cover your eyes if you don't wish to know, but here's a short list (simply the

first

name is a huge strike against your argument):

A.) Tuon, Daughter of the Nine Moons, engaged to Matt Cuathon (hmm, ring any bells?)
B.) Egeanin Tamarath, another very prominent character, who later pairs up with Bayle Domon
C.) Renna, the Sul'dam who captured Egwene, and tried to kill Egeanin
D.) High Lord Turak, blademaster and former leader of the Seanchan
E.) High Lady Suroth, who I believe is the new leader of the Seanchan

2.) I am not "eager" to lynch M-M. But guess what? I have pretty much been the only person doing anything about this game for the past two or three days. Do you actually think I have been

scummy

for leading lynches on

scum

? This game has lasted quite a while, and today has lasted quite a while, and I am happy with our choice of lynch. Considering I unvoted for discussion earlier, I don't think you can accuse me of being "eager".

3.) Simply because certain types of characters are "prominent" in the book does NOT correlate to whether or not those people must be in the game. I am not denying that M-M is Seanchan (there is simply too much evidence supporting that claim), but I am doubting he is pro-town. If you think prominence in the book correlates to being in the game, please explain the absence of:

a.) Children of the Light
b.) Seafolk (Windfinders, etc.)
c.) Traditional Aiel (we only seem to have one... and she came with a name [unless you wish to count Rand])
d.) Ogier (we only seem to have one... and he came with a name)
e.) Characters at Valan Lucca's

4.) I can assured you that I am town. MMoD's rumours even support me (first by verifying that I ordered Broomhead to kill himself, so I

cannot

be the balefire killer, and second by showing that the hooking up of me and Pooky-Moraine was a

good thing

for the town). MBL has had forever and a day to investigate me if he so wishes. I have been very outward with my suspicions, I have been the most active scum-catcher, and just so happen to be the

protagonist of the Series

. I've gone over all of this before.

Your theories as of late are

really

bugging me. And seeing as you're the person who has been collared by M-M, I think your last-minute defense of M-M is fairly scummy.

Also, you said that M-M tells you every night who he is/isn't going to collar. Can you even verify that he targeted Lordy last night? You never did say.

FoS: Illumina

, if there is an indication that M-M is scum and the game continues after that, I will definitely have to look at you again, despite the innocent investigation on you.

And actually, while compiling this, I discovered that this conversation is pointless. Ghyrt miscounted the votes, and M-M has hit five.

Mod

, M-M has been lynched.
Vote #1: Anonymities, post 924
Vote #2: MrBuddyLee, post 927
Vote #3: PetroleumJelly, post 941
Vote #4: Tamuz, post 947
Vote #5: Ghyrt, post 949

[petroleumjelly]

Ah, good, that was the best thing that could have happened. I obviously told my Ashaman not to kill last night (not that he could have, if Anonymities followed through).

Now, it could either be the case that Ghyrt is the final scum (or one of the final scum, since we don't strictly know how many scum are left) and was role-blocked from killing last night,

or

that the scum group otherwise missed their kill, or purposely sent in a no-kill in order to incriminate Ghyrt.

I believe the optimal strategy is to have MBL and MMoD reveal their information, and unless there is a guilty result, we will No-Lynch. Yes, that seems mathematically odd with an odd number of players alive, but I think we have caught scum in a pickle: if they kill on the same night that Ghyrt is role-blocked, they would essentially be forfeiting an attempted lynch on Ghyrt (since Ghyrt cannot kill if he is role-blocked), but the longer they hold off on killing, they may be investigated as guilty or otherwise be found out by a rumor.

Mod

, I believe it is 7 alive with 4 to lynch.

[petroleumjelly]

Oh God DAMNIT.

Why

is there a CULT in a game where you DO NOT REVEAL ALIGNMENT?

If there was

ever

a dead cult member in this game, I will fly off the handle over the fact that we were never

told

there was a cult in this game.

*goes off to fume*

I am seriously pissed. Damn it all to hell.

[petroleumjelly]

You know, it's easy to talk when you're an outside spectator. Try putting things in context:

On Day 6, Tamuz claimed here. If you read my next two posts (which were directly afterwards), I point out my skepticism over his claim, and line him up for a very near Vigging. Since we had already caught scum before that claim (SkyLink), we already had our lynch set, so lynching Tamuz was not an option that day so far as I was concerned.

And of course, that same day, we have Post 775 from MBL, which

"clears"

Tamuz, even though I suspected him.

I adjust my Vig list here. Over the course of the Day, I decide the

safest

thing to do was simply to No-Kill, since as far as I was concerned, there was no way there would be a cult in a game with no-reveal, and the scum certainly weren't going to go anywhere.

On Day 7, I decided to go after the weakest non-confirmed players. In a game where the existence of a cult seems like an impossibility, this was clearly the correct play. We lynched the claimed townie (Lowell), and I Vigged the claimed Mason, who had absolutely no guarantee of being innocent (and was also an antagonistic character in the books, being Elaida), and also had no powers to worry about (Spamwise).

On Day 8, I argued rather extensively with Tamuz, and in fact obviated the fact that I

really

did not like his behavior in Post 910, but how I also

really

did not like his claim in Post 912.

I was very ready to lynch Tamuz. But, as it happens, our game had exactly two information roles. Both of those information roles were culted. Both of those information roles helped to "clear" Tamuz, as I demonstrated in Post 915. It was not Tamuz's play which made me back off of him, but rather the information given to me by players whose claims I determined were pro-town (who actually

did

have pro-town roles before they were culted).

So, believe it or not, I went after the

other

extremely VAGUE role-claim in Machiavellian-Mafia, the

unnamed

marath-damamen.

In short,

that

was "why in hell" I let Tamuz live. With the information we had, I still believe I was making optimal plays.

[petroleumjelly]

Possible scum:

3

Forsaken: Graendal, Masaana, Demandred

3

Black Ajah: Linadrin, Galina, Alviarin
1-

2

Marath Damane: Marath-Damane + Female Channeler

1

-2 Lanfear: Lanfear + Rand Al'Thor

1

Serial Killer: Padan Fain
1-

4

Cult Leader/Cultists: Masema + 3 townspeople (Juilin, Loial, Thom)

So this game ended up having 14 scum in 31 players, and could easily have had 15 if Logicticus had found me? Ugh. Macros, you seriously use too much scum. =/

Was M-M the person using balefire? Who used what killing flavor?

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, I can continue this argument. It's players

jobs

to bitch about games. I seriously get paid to do this kind of stuff.

On the eve of Day 8, there 24 players dead, 10 of which were scum. That's a 41.7% accuracy rate. In 7 lynches, we killed 8 people (due to the marath-damane situation), and 6 of them were scum. That's a 75% accuracy rate.

On Day 8, the town had already lost despite the fact that it could hardly do any better than it already had. If the town was going to win this game

at all

we essentially not only had to lynch scum practically

every day

, but we would also have to lynch scum

in the correct order

(i.e. we should magically know to lynch Masema before confirmed Skylink scum, or before the Marath-Damane scum group). I was planning on going on another attack of Tamuz on Day 8, which seemed like a pretty safe bet considering we had killed two scum on Day 7, but as it happens we had lost anyways. The town was almost in a Prisoner's Dilemma with 9 players alive, because we actually probably would have been better off by letting M-M live so that he could hit a cultist.

Cross-kills only work if the scum make it far into the game. In effect, the town was actually

punished

for lynching scum early, because that decreased the likelihood of cross-killing, and also gave the Cult Leader the cream of the crop of people to recruit (which happened to be the live investigative roles).

You claim i over scummed it, but i disagree, when theres a lot of evil, they normally knock each other out,

evil people are more targetted, because they're more active and therefore more suspicious.

And I disagree with this statement. Active people can easily be left alive. I was one of the most active people in the game, and yet I survived until endgame despite my power. Scum usually

don't

cross-kill suspicious people: scum leave suspicious people

alive

so that they have someplace to direct a lynch.

Regardless, since there were approximately 6 seperate scum groups in addition to town, I am simply going to assume you tried to give each group roughly a 14.3% chance of winning, because that's about as good a shot as the town had in this game, which would require pretty much flawless play.