WoT Mafia, GAME OVER

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

1. I don't know where you all got info of me using balefire. I wish I could quote this, but I was specifically told by the mod that when I collared successfully I may use The Power to vig next night.

2. I was investigated by MBL the night that lordy disappeared. So if you think I have GF-like abilities when I don't target anyone, I could not have been involved in lordy's disappearance.

3. I will clarify with the mod via PM, but you should have gotten a PM saying that you were attempted to be collared since I received the same PM about MBL and he admits that he was collared. The only other possibility I can think of is the collaring somehow got transferred to Ghyrt.

[petroleumjelly]

1.) Why does this game need

two

Vigilantes when scum can already cross-kill (and we have in fact had two instances of scum cross-kills that we know of, being Shamrock and Axelrod)?

Also, Balefire is a

use

of The Power. Female channelers use The Power, and female channelers can use balefare (although I would think only

strong

female channelers would be able to accomplish this, a game here does not necessary need to correlate fully to the books).

2.) On Night Six, when you were investigated by MBL, we don't actually

know

if you tries to collar Lordy: that's simply what you claimed. All MBL was told is that there was no "malicious intent" from you... so you may instead have ordered Illumina (who was already collared at that point) to use balefire on Lordy, which means it was Illumina who was killing, and not you: noteworthy is that MBL did not get a strict "innocent" result on you. If you are ordering people around, you are not making a night action (as was proven by me being able to successfully order my Ashaman, Ghyrt, into killing on a night where

I

was, in fact, protected and role-blocked).

3.) Sure thing, we'll see if Gleeman ever gets back to me on that.

Unvote: M-M

for discussion, there is plenty to talk about now (unlike

yesterday

, at least).

[MrBuddyLee]

vote: M-M

If I get balefired tonight I'm gonna be pissed. Lynch Ghyrt tomorrow if I die, please, and don't give PJ all your trust.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

3. The mod replied to me saying that it was his mistake, so you should receive a PM from the mod now about being attempted to be collared during the 2nd night.

1. A large sized game often have multiple vigs since one vig could be killed quickly via nightkill or lynch. Plus the fact that I don't have the ability to vig every night doesn't make me a complete vig. I'm not here to try to outguess the mod though.

About Balefire and The Power, the mod only told me that I use The Power for vigging, so if it was actually Balefire, the mod wasn't specific enough. Also all this balefire speculation and players' disappearances is a moot point for me since point #3 is resolved.

2. Of course there would be no malicious intent from me if I was trying to collar lordy. Plus the fact that MBL had a positive investigation on Illumina, plus point #3 being resolved, it's clear that I am not the person responsible for balefire and the disappearances.

[Tamuz]

How do you deal with the fact
That unlike almost everyone else it is a name you lack
Just Collarer, and not a named Seanchan seems a bit abstract

[Anonymities]

"Just Collarer, and not a named Seanchan seems a bit abstract "

I was wondering about that too. Even the scum who have claimed have provided names from the books!

[petroleumjelly]

Okay, I got the collaring message just now. *sigh* Just when I thought I was onto something good.

Still not opposed to an M-M lynch, but I'll see if I can't dig anything else up. Does anybody have any cases to present about anything? It seems like it's just me talking and then everybody responding at this point.

[MrBuddyLee]

From my perspective, I think mmod and Tamuz are clearest, followed by Anonymities and then PJ. Based on their play primarily, along with investigations and their claims. PJ falls a bit due to his proximity to the balefire nexus.

Illumina and Fritz are next on my list half because of their roles, half because of how they've played.

M-M and Ghyrt are at the bottom of my list, primarily due to their coincidental behaviors on balefire nights.

I don't think we should fear the loss of a vig at this point. Without one we likely have four mislynches before we're cooked. I think we should axe the people who admit to being able to kill, as they're the most likely source of our problems. That pretty much means M-M, Ghyrt, PJ at this point. Any thoughts on whether these three as our next few lynches makes sense?

In my book:

1) PJ has kilt a lotta scum. If he's scum this has been a Bussapalooza. Possible but not so likely. He'd also have to be investigation immune in my book, to do this with such audacity and to let the cop live this long.
2) Ghyrt hasn't done much other than get ordered around. Not much proof of protownitude.
3) M-M has not exactly delved the depths scrying for scum. He's more told us what he's done.

My vote stays on M-M but I'd also be comfortable moving it to Ghyrt tonight.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

How do you deal with the fact
That unlike almost everyone else it is a name you lack
Just Collarer, and not a named Seanchan seems a bit abstract

My role name is just Marath Damane, period. I'm guessing the reason for not having a specific character was that there wasn't one specific character that fit my role or flavor.

I think the most likely person responsible for all the balefire attacks and disappearances is Ghyrt because he doesn't seem to be very involved in the game and has killing powers.

[Illumina]

I agree with MBL - any channeler is a potential balefire user (myself included), leaving us a set number of people as suspect. I'm hesitant about Ghyrt for the reasons already stated, but also because of his role: I took Logain as sort of a borderline character in the books, sort of like Elaida. Is my impression of him accurate?


...Also, this is an odd idea, but I may as well throw it out there: Rand is a channeler, too. I think PJ has proved sufficiently that's he pro-town, but if certain conditions are met, perhaps Rand succumbs to the taint of Saidin (the male side of the one power), and is corrupted. The taint on Saidin is something Rand grapples with for most of the series, so perhaps the mod felt inclined to include it. This isn't the most likely scenario, obviously, I only propose it in the interest of considering all angles given where the game's at.

Or, I could be reading too much into flavor.

[MrBuddyLee]

I think PJ should be lynched before me, if it comes to that But we're a long way from discussing that, unless of course I disappear tonight.

[petroleumjelly]

I think PJ should be lynched before me, if it comes to that But we're a long way from discussing that, unless of course I disappear tonight.

MBL, I have

never

been lynched while I have been pro-town, and I absolutely

refuse

to be lynched while I am pro-town (especially when my play has been this damned

good

). And any idiot reading this game knows that I am protown. My actions have been protown, I have consistently hunted for scum, my claim and actions of Vigilante have been substantiated and verified (by both Ghyrt, and MMoD's information

confirming

that I ordered Ghyrt to kill himself Night Two, which means I

could not have used balefire

), my character is the PROTAGONIST OF THE SERIES in a game where the scum had NO SAFE CLAIMS (from what we can gather), MMoD's information confirms that Pooky and I hooked up for the better of the town, I have considered multiple possibilities and put some actual critical thinking into this game (as opposed to simply following the group, as most people seem to have done), and I could go on and on.

If I am lynched, this town

deserves to lose

, plain and simple. I suggest you start hunting for scum, as opposed to trying to set me up for a lynch later in the game.

[MrBuddyLee]

Hey, I'm just handing out advice should the inevitable happen and your cop gets silenced by death.

Many of you have the potential to use balefire as you've described your roles. I do not. My statement stands.

[Machiavellian-Mafia]

In addition to my suspicions, I just noticed that ghyrt has not posted in a week,

vote: ghyrt

[MrBuddyLee]

Vote count please. And let's see some votes. Ghyrt or M-M sounds like we're down to.

[Gleeman]

2 Mach Mafia (Anon, MBL)
1 Ghyrt (Mach Mafia)

[petroleumjelly]

I still think my original plan is good.

1.) Lynch Mach-M
2.) Anonymities Role-Blocks/Protects Ghyrt. I will No-Kill. If there is an example of balefire tomorrow night, then we know Ghyrt is not the originator of that balefire. If there is no example of balefire (and I would assume there would also be no kills if there is no balefire), then we know that either Ghyrt is the balefire killer, or the scum No-Killed. That would, of course, mean there would be 8 players tomorrow,

and

MBL will have another investigation,

and

MMoD will have heard another rumor.

At that point, we can No-Lynch again, Role-Block/Protect Ghyrt again, I will No-Kill again, and if there is ever a use of balefire during such a process, we will know the user is not Ghyrt. If not, we can simply continue No-Lynching, and while we're at it, we will be getting investigations and rumors up the wazzoo. There is really no point in not allowing MBL to investigate everybody if we can have that done, since people who had innocent investigations on them

early

in the game may have since turned to the shadow (as suggested by MMoD).

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

.

[petroleumjelly]

*Should probably clarify that:

"I will No-Kill" is actually redundant, since if I tried to send in a kill, it would be role-blocked, seeing as Ghyrt is the person who would be carrying my killing. I can send in a night-choice if the town wishes, but it would be fruitless.

[Illumina]

Looks like a safe, solid play. Interesting that you felt the need to clarify, though - still makes me think perhaps Rand may have turned and developed balefire after a certain number of forsaken were killed. You would probably be the last person investigated, too. Considering the innocent investigations we've had, I'm not sure I'm comfortable allowing you to control the course of the game, especially given how advantageous this plan would be for you.

[Anonymities]

Look on the bright side illumina. Assuming that ghyrt is the only Asha-man still alive, PJ could send in a night action to kill you and yet you still would not die since I am protecting/role blocking ghyrt.

I think PJ's plan is solid for this round and am satisfied with the way this is working.

[MrBuddyLee]

You're trusting PJ when he says Ghyrt's his only killing outlet.

[Anonymities]

Actually I'm trusting everyone else that has claimed when they never claimed to be an Asha-man.

[Tamuz]

Right, so I guess thats how it is.
Not that this decision would've taken a wiz

vote:M-M

, mayhaps this'll finally finish this biz.

[Illumina]

No one else had to claim Asha'man. This doesn't address PJ's alignment at all, or the trust everyone else seems to have put in him. I'm for a M-M vote, but let's not let the day end before we address this...

[Ghyrt]

Sorry I haven't been very pro-town. I thought I'd do the mafiascum community a service by substituting, but this game relies so much on flavor speculation I can't understand that the game's hard to get into. I've been following (only half-reading), but haven't thought of much to contribute. Anyway, PJ's proposed order of events sounds like a win-win situation.

Vote: Machiavellian-Mafia

.

BTW: I was telling the truth when I said "I wouldn't be surprised" if PJ was scum, but since I don't understand the game very well, it wouldn't take much to surprise me. When I said it, I was contemplating how the mod might have given scum safe claims and thought that one of the g-g's might be scum, but since we aren't told alignment upon death, it seems only fair that scum flavor names should be, at worst, ambiguous and not g-g names.