The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Pyromaniac]

/confirm

[Pyromaniac]

Nobody has randomly voted for me yet. Thats new.

[Pyromaniac]

It is all better now.

[Pyromaniac]

We should definitely lynch D1. Who I'm not sure yet.

[Pyromaniac]

We should definitely lynch D1. Who I'm not sure yet.

@Pyro

: why the hesitation?

It is very early. Barley out of the RVS. Nobody has done anything that deserves lynching yet.

[Pyromaniac]

EBWOP: Barely, not barley.

[Pyromaniac]

How come every time at least one person starts commenting about "no lynch" and always gets the same answer. BAD BAD BAD Day 1. You would think after a while people don't make the same mistakes.

Probably because no one likes the idea of taking a risk/gamble that big...

Unless I am misinterpreting this, this is far more passive than I am.

[Pyromaniac]

Unless I am missintepreting it is advocating no lynch d1.

[Pyromaniac]

@Lamont- Why do you think its ok to ever give an unclaimed unconfirmed entity the key to the town car?

fos Lamont

LMAO! We all are the driver here not me. All I'm saying is that if you are a semi-lurker after awhile I am going to be mad with you and advocate your lynch. See my Wiki.

@Pyro:

What is your favorite lynch-candidate characteristic in Rd. 1?

The person who said we should not lynch.

[Pyromaniac]

LOL! I just spent a while waiting for someone to respond to my post at the bottom of page seven, not realizing that I was at the bottom.

FoS Shadow Knight

[Pyromaniac]

We cannot do random. This is not because I was selected by the random but, even if shadow knight was selected I would say the same thing. There is one reason for this, the possibility of whomever does the random being scum. We would not get a random result, we would get a result that DEFIANTLY did not say to give it to one of their scumbuddies. There is only one thing we know for sure about each others roles, assuming hohum's role does not say that the goblet is not harmful, if he is scum then I am town. We cannot trust anybodies random. I think that the person who has the most votes, with FoS counting as half a vote, should be forced to drink it. I do not know much about Chzo manor but, they would probably not give us two lynches. Now, I also doubt that they would give us a broken ability. It would be bad if it gave some good ability and we guessed right about the scum. I would be willing to risk that. Anyways, it seems more likely that this is supposed to balance the village in a detrimental way.

[Pyromaniac]

Let us say hohum is scum as a hypothetical. The dice roll hits one of his scumbuddies. He will not announce this. He will keep rolling until it hits a villager.

[Pyromaniac]

Ok, this might clear things up a bit:

Do I believe that there are more townies than scum? Of course.
Do I know what the decanter does? No
Being Chzo theme, do I see a definite bad outcome from drinking the liquid? Yes
With the bad that's very possible, and more likely to hit Townie on a random vote, would I want a random number roll? No

Anyways, it seems more likely that this is supposed to balance the village in a detrimental way.

Care to elaborate? Does this mean that you think it'll help the side opposite to who takes it?

There are seven possibilities.
Bad...Hits town...bad
Bad...Hits mafia...good
good...hits town...good
good...hits mafia...bad
bad to some townie...hits those townies...bad
" " " "... hit mafia... nobody cares
" " " "...hits other townies...nobody cares
Look at these. If you made the town overpowered it would be easier to balance through detrimental ways.

[Pyromaniac]

Code: Select all

[dice]1d19[/dice]

[Pyromaniac]

Code: Select all

[dice]1d19[/dice]

Original Roll String: 1d19

1 19-Sided Dice: (5) = 5

Heh. I wasn't supposed to post that. I tried to preview it but missclicked. In this preview is says 11.

[Pyromaniac]

OK. Maybe you CAN do it randomly. I will drink it then.

[Pyromaniac]

I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.

[Pyromaniac]

If anyone is wondering why I am offering drink it is because me refusing to drink it and getting lynched will lead to a worse scenario almost 100% (town to mafia flip) of the time.

[Pyromaniac]

Quick to defend? More like explain in other posts.

[Pyromaniac]

Quick to defend? More like explain in other posts.

No one asked you to explain yourself... but you felt the need?

Yes. Saying LYNCH HOHUM (not bolded because it is not real) is anti-town when not in the RVS. Explaining is pro-town. You would not be questioning (probably) this if I explained in the original post.

[Pyromaniac]

Also,

FoS: Naimoi

. For 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

[Pyromaniac]

Lamont does indeed make a good point.

Vote pablo

I had shown signs of saying that me drinking it was a bad thing. I was saying that I had shown that I was saying that it would be bad for me to drink it and still accepted drinking it (this is hyperbole). I stating why I did not contradict myself.

[Pyromaniac]

In 287 you said that it should be his choice. You said nothing about lynching him if it disagreed with the towns choice.

[Pyromaniac]

Your idea helps the mafia lynch power roles more easily. If you know who the regular townies than you know who isn't a power role. Also, if power roles claim that they are townies then that contradicts the point of you proposal. Thank you for pointing out that you volunteered, for this is evidence against you. Your proposal contradicts the volunteering system, this leads me to believe that the only reason why you volunteered is not look suspicious.

[Pyromaniac]

I agree with amished. If it is random or nothing, which it does appear to be, we have a larger chance of hitting town. I am now convinced that it has a negative effect.

[Pyromaniac]

Thankyou for bringing some rationality to the game, AJ.

If it is random or nothing, which it does appear to be, we have a larger chance of hitting town. I am now convinced that it has a negative effect.

Do you support no lynching on D1? This is THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT. Jesus.

Lynching is a necessity in order to win the game. I am yet to see a good argument that these are, or even that using them randomly will help us more than it will hurt us.

[Pyromaniac]

I am upgrading my FoS into a

MAJOR FoS:Naomi

He appears to be our second best (IMO) lead.

[Pyromaniac]

Your idea helps the mafia lynch power roles more easily. If you know who the regular townies than you know who isn't a power role. Also, if power roles claim that they are townies then that contradicts the point of you proposal. Thank you for pointing out that you volunteered, for this is evidence against you. Your proposal contradicts the volunteering system, this leads me to believe that the only reason why you volunteered is not look suspicious.

Hah, yeah, because speculation in my motivation is real accurate. Sorry, fellas, there is no underlying sinister motivation here, chalk it up to plain curiosity. There's an easy way to check this after all: call my "bluff". I'm wondering why Lamont is so adamant about the idea of it changing people's alignment. That's only one of many, many possibilities.

However, I do see your point in exposing the volunteering townies making it easier for mafia to pick off PRs, so it's obvious that we shouldn't have a whole lot of people raising their hands and saying "pick me!" A few have done it already, no need for any more.

So you are saying that you are contradicting yourself and then pointing it out? Not likely. Seems more like a Freudian slip. Also, how do we know that those are regular townies? They could be masons or power roles not wanting to look obvious. Or mafia.

[Pyromaniac]

He did in 387, however his answer is not exactly satisfactory to me (as I pointed out in 388, 389 or 390. What ever it is).

[Pyromaniac]

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

Let me get this straight. So, your saying that in all probability this will have a negative effect. And that it is likely it will be given to the town. So that there is a good chance that the town as a whole or individually will suffer because one of us drinks it. Yet, you are advocating that we should drink it. We do not know if we need these to win, chances are we don't.

Unvote, Vote: Naomi

[Pyromaniac]

@Sironigous: If hohum uses it on his own, how does Naomi have any misdeeds to wash her hands of in the first place? She isn't deciding what to do with the decanter so there's no "deed" ascribed to her. Therefore if it turns out bad, it won't be *her* misdeed, it'd be hohum's.

What is so suspicious is that Naomi wants to use it but, she does not want to be she responsible.

[Pyromaniac]

Well obviously we don't

need

them to win, that's not the point. They will improve our chances of winning.

I have yet to see any evidence, or even a satisfactory argument, of that. The supernatural in Chzo manor is never very friendly or pro-town.

[Pyromaniac]

If someone HAS to drink it to appease a majority of the town, then it should be shadow knight IMO. He advocated no lynch d1, he also volunteered. The case against Naomi coming in the next post.

[Pyromaniac]

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

In the first part of the post she says that it should be entirely hohum's decision. This is incredible scummy, would it make sense to put the fate of the village into one random person's hands? No. We should not even attempt to control what he does with it. Yet in the second part of the post she says that Xtoxm should drink it, even though she should be in no way responsible for suggesting the idea. If you don't get it, then it is like suggesting a lynch and not being responsible if it kills you vig. Basically, she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

In this post Naomi states that it will probably kill someone or do something bad for them. She still says that we should drink it.

No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.

In this post she says that it is not likely that it will be given to a townie. Remember that in the first quote she said that she someone should drink it because they volunteered?

Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once already

In this post, Naomi is agreeing that the volunteering system is anti-town. Yet, in the first post she suggests Xtoxm because he was a volunteer, supporting the volunteering system.

From these post, you can conclude that Naomi:
A. Supports the volunteering system
B. Is against the volunteering system
C. Thinks we should all be sheep to hohum
D. Wants an opinion, but does not want to be responsible for it
E. Admits that the item will probably be bad, yet wants us to drink it anyways

I missed several posts.

Also Naomi, Lamont asked.

[Pyromaniac]

Also

Mod: Votecount please

[Pyromaniac]

What I think he is saying is that if we force it upon a L-1 scum then they would suicide rather than give us the info.

[Pyromaniac]

I say let him make the decision because then he alone is responsible for the outcome. If we sit around bickering about whether or not to use it, we're all still just pointing a finger at each other.

But then again, pointing the finger might help us all... so if we all agree to use it, I think Xtoxm should drink it, seeing as he volunteered.

In the first part of the post she says that it should be entirely hohum's decision. This is incredible scummy, would it make sense to put the fate of the village into one random person's hands? No. We should not even attempt to control what he does with it. Yet in the second part of the post she says that Xtoxm should drink it, even though she should be in no way responsible for suggesting the idea. If you don't get it, then it is like suggesting a lynch and not being responsible if it kills you vig. Basically, she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

I didn't say we should let him have his way with every single point in this game. Simply that from where I stand, in THIS instance, I think it's the best choice.

Yes, I think it's probable to assume that it would likely kill someone. Though I'm sure there are an infinite number of other possibilities. Since we don't know what it is, it could be wine, or some kind of truth serum. Seeing as we don't 'what' the item does, I think it plays more value by being here then it does by being used or not being used. I think the decanter has caused quite the stir, and we can't agree on what to do with it. Which creates a major problem. Since we all can't agree on it, the decanter is next to worthless. Which is why I suggested someone else make the call.

In this post Naomi states that it will probably kill someone or do something bad for them. She still says that we should drink it.

So would lynching someone... we have no choice but to vote for someone... are you saying that it's a bad idea to lynch then?

Lynching is a necessity in order to win the game. There is no argument or evidence that these items will be anything but bad for he town.

No I did not say that its likely to be given to a townie. So, you're contradicting yourself in your statement. We don't know what it's affects are. Good or bad. Yet you assume I think it's bad for the town. Which really means you think it's bad for the town. I did not say 'in all probability' I said that it's likely to have a negative affect, but it is also likely that it can help us. And I do believe I stated that we don't know what these items do many times. I do believe that using it will help us, regardless of what the decanter's contents actually do.

In this post she says that it is not likely that it will be given to a townie. Remember that in the first quote she said that she someone should drink it because they volunteered?

Yes, I said he was the first person to volunteer... and that if the town thinks it should be used
a) volunteer
b) lynch suspect
I don't agree with the town randomly picking who drinks it... because we get no information about why it was used. An I did not say that it won't be a townie, now you're putting words in my mouth. I said that we don't know who it'll be used on.

I am not putting words into your mouth. I am making logical deductions.

Agree'd once again... seeing as I've said this once already

yes, I repeated the fact that I think it might be a good idea to pick someone else as an option. Only for everyone to have a different idea to go off of, not to make a contradiction with my earlier statement. I'm entitled to my opinion on the matter, as I have already stated. But I also have the right to say if I agree or disagree with the ideas someone else. Seeing as we've all done that, I don't understand how you find that scumie...

Your also have to be responsible for your own actions.

In this post, Naomi is agreeing that the volunteering system is anti-town. Yet, in the first post she suggests Xtoxm because he was a volunteer, supporting the volunteering system.

From these post, you can conclude that Naomi:
A. Supports the volunteering system
B. Is against the volunteering system
C. Thinks we should all be sheep to hohum
D. Wants an opinion, but does not want to be responsible for it
E. Admits that the item will probably be bad, yet wants us to drink it anyways

I missed several posts.

Also Naomi, Lamont asked.

By this point I've noticed you're putting words in my mouth and you seem like you're trying to steer the game in favor of your vote.
I find that scumie behavior...

[Pyromaniac]

What I think he is saying is that if we force it upon a L-1 scum then they would suicide rather than give us the info.

Well if they flip scum then who cares, we got scum D1, WOOT!

Also it has been advocated that the results could be expected to be visible. So even if they are actually scum they might be forced to reveal the effects regardless if they want to or not. But who cares, they're scum -- WOOHOO!

Also on your Naomi it is very clear she is very inconsistent and all over the map.

Does this mean she is scum though?

If that happens, then we would have been better off not lynching and ignoring the item. I don't really see that being one of the good scenarios.

[Pyromaniac]

I think we should do it in

blue

I think

Shadow Knight

should get it. Also, shadow knight is lurking.

[Pyromaniac]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

Shadow knight.

[Pyromaniac]

Anyone who is basing their argument on the notion that the town is over powered is either scum or bread crumbing that they have a power role. Stop it. Now.

Yeah I reread rule 13.

I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.

Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

I was merely making it absolutely clear that I would not voluntarily drink.

Also,

FoS Naimoi.

for 287, giving one person to much power this early in the game is just a bad idea. I didn't see this until now.

Translation:

Naomi is building a case to advocate my lynch. Let me go back and re-read her in isolation and see what I can pick out to discredit her

Her accusation was that I explained myself in other post. That is SO scummy. Only a scum would forget to post their explanation and immediately post it in a different post.

This and the justification for your Pablo vote are a very knee-jerk reactions.

Then you jump back onto Naomi with some more weak reasoning.

Summary:

Pyromaniac is obvscum, naomi comes off as looking slightly noobtown and Sajin's lynch can be postponed for now.

Unvote, Vote: Pyromaniac

Let me remind that I was not the first one to vote Naomi, although I think I might have been the first to do it for that particular post.

He is trying to prevent me from infiltrating the town! MUST LYNCH!

The reason why I don't find this particularly scummy is because I have yet to look at your other games, to see if you usually try to lead the town.

[Pyromaniac]

So far according to my memory there have only been two people that advocated d1-no-lynch as go poof:

Xtoxm & Sironi

I don't think there is a 3rd person...

And btw what do you think about random assignment vs. town-wide voting?

Would you accept a two-phase voting where the two top town chosen people are identified and then everyone votes on A or B?

Shadow knight.

Could you put that in blue if you are voting for Shadow Knight?

I was saying that Shadow Knight advocated no lynching day one. I have already voted for him.

[Pyromaniac]

Pyromaniac wrote:
I will not be responsible for any sanity flips, killing of useful role, removing power or roleblocking that I may or may not receive from drinking the it. I will not be responsible for any harm that comes to the town from me drinking.


Sounds like you're setting yourself up for deniability later. Definitely a scum tactic. I would put you in the former category for this post.

I was merely making it absolutely clear that I would not voluntarily drink.

This is incorrect. The quoted post came right after you said you WOULD voluntarily drink. Why do you misquote it now??

FoS Pyro

I said, sometime in that post era, that I would not drink it voluntarily, if you are lynched if you do not drink it, it is not voluntarily.

[Pyromaniac]

So, uh what did I miss? Nothing. Nothing at all.

*plays a little jazz flute to liven up the room*

we need to generate discussion. how does everyone feel about no lynches?

Shadow knight is a LYAR!

[Pyromaniac]

First- I asked what others thought about no lynches, where does this say "I likez noe lynches, we shud doo that!"?? Misrepping and do so badly. Reading is tech.

So, uh what did I miss? Nothing. Nothing at all.

*plays a little jazz flute to liven up the room*

we need to generate discussion. how does everyone feel about no lynches?

Shadow knight is a LYAR!

You were originally the one who began the talk about no lynching. I would say that equals suggesting it. Asking how everybody feels about it in that way implies that you support it.

[Pyromaniac]

Well if nobody else sees it that way then I must be interpreting it wrong. Since that was my only reason for voting towards shadow knight,

Unvote

[Pyromaniac]

I don't want to go with anyone I think is scum through a lot evidence, yet I want to go with someone who I am more suspicious of than normal. Not sure this is yet. I get the feel that you are accusing me of something by unvoting. Correct me if this is wrong.

[Pyromaniac]

Pyromaniac

-- Has both volunteered to drink and advocated dumping the liquid entirely. I have found his logic to be confusing to me on other positions and so it doesn't seem suprising that his elixir positions would change as well. Didn't seem to be steering. Neutral read.

As I have already explained I did

not

volunteer. For a while it looked like I was going to be forced to drink it because I was randomly selected, or at least to me it did. I made it clear, or so I thought, that I did not approve of this but, would drink it if I had to.

[Pyromaniac]

Yes. This whole discussion was pointless and distracting. We should be looking for clues that the people who were largely steering it were also purposefully introducing confusion into the mix.

I find this hypocritical. Your entire reasoning for voting for me is based on a few posts that would not have been made if it were not for the decanter. In this post and in other posts you appear to not like the decanter, say it causes regress in our lynching attempts.

[Pyromaniac]

Hohum, you've brought up some very good points to think about, he's likely to be as defensive as anyone else. While I see both your arguments as valid, it seems a bit distracting from the point you stated in 684. Why do you feel the need to pick him apart now, if you feel Pyro is a more important target?

What point in 684? As far as I can tell, there is not point in 684.

I think that there is a post accusing me of changing my views from "vote" to "no use". This convinced me.

[Pyromaniac]

@Pyro in 710:

I find this hypocritical. Your entire reasoning for voting for me is based on a few posts that would not have been made if it were not for the decanter. In this post and in other posts you appear to not like the decanter, say it causes regress in our lynching attempts.

What type of BS reasoning is this? Who cares what caused you to post, but the fact of the matter is that it came about and you posted. You're also avoiding the point of the quote you responded to. Hohum did not really participate in the debate about the decanter, so for him to comment on those who were trying to steer it is not hypocritical in any way. I believe it's a valid concern, especially as confusion heavily benefits scum more than town.

Hypocritical may not be the correct word. Maybe contrary would be better. It IS contrary. He says it did not contribute to scum hunting the scum hunting on me would not occurred if it was not for the decanter. So it does contribute to scum hunting.

[Pyromaniac]

@Pyro: So what's your point? He obviously caught you being scum because of your responses. You would've had to respond to something eventually, and you probably would've then been caught later. WIFOM'ing it up though severely muddied the waters and got everyone running in circles, which delayed the scumhunting. Now that Hohum drank the decanter, that portion of the day is over with and we can finally get back to really scumhunting again.

Besides, what does it matter how he caught you being scum?

First of all, he didn't "catch me being scum", you try to catch someone who isn't stealing stealing. My point is this: hohum says that the decanter does not contribute to scum hunting, yet he uses it's contributions. Therefor, he admits that they exist.

[Pyromaniac]

So in your eyes, the contributions exist and you admit that the contributions led hohum to you. I'd say that turned out rather well then. There's still a lot of back and forth wifom that retarded scumhunting, no?

I am saying the decanter caused some scum hunting, however bad it may have been. Hohum is saying the opposite.

[Pyromaniac]

Yes. This whole discussion was pointless and distracting.

Here is the post.

[Pyromaniac]

Prod received. Will catch up soon.

[Pyromaniac]

@Pyro
I'm not following you. You're saying that if the decanter wasn't in play you wouldn't have made the "scummy" comment thus he wouldn't have voted for you ? This is a horrible excuse. Fact is you made "scummy" looking posts that made Lamont vote for you.

I am saying this for the last time. Because hohum is innocent the point no longer matters. Hohum was saying that the elixer did not contribut to scumhunting. Yet he was using it's contributions.

[Pyromaniac]

Well if he can't give it away, it is not surprising that it can't be stolen.

[Pyromaniac]

1031 and 1038 directly contradict. Anyone not voting Naomi should explain how this is not a dead giveaway that the claim is false.

[Pyromaniac]

Also amished, flavor?

[Pyromaniac]

I doubt we would have another doc if we do have a multiple protection doc.

[Pyromaniac]

Are you saying that you know that there is another doc? If you are saying this than saying it was a bad idea.

[Pyromaniac]

1- Trilby is the hero, main character who continues through the game... investigating and unraveling the entire storyline to find the culprit.

Isn't it obvious that Trilby is our cop? Why would he be one-shot? If anything, he would be 4 shot.

[Pyromaniac]

Nobody post VT flavor. With it not being posted scum cannot claim VT.

[Pyromaniac]

Oh and

vote naomi

.

[Pyromaniac]

naomi

[Pyromaniac]

1031, 1032, 1033, 1038. That is almost conclusive evidence against Naomi.

[Pyromaniac]

Please note my sig.

[Pyromaniac]

Waaaaat? Explain how with your role you can do TWO things at once? Protect BOTH Naomi AND Ho?? And You're more powerful than Trilby!??

'Splain naaaaao!

His claim is multi protecting, self targeting doc.

[Pyromaniac]

Unvote

V/LA today until saturday.

[Pyromaniac]

Catching up.

[Pyromaniac]

I don't think we should vig naomi.

[Pyromaniac]

(I think she is guilty though)

[Pyromaniac]

Devestation

[Pyromaniac]

@amished why did you protect naomi? She is the top scumspect.

[Pyromaniac]

unvote, vote sironi

[Pyromaniac]

Why? Isn't it obvious that we should lynch naomi?

[Pyromaniac]

unvote, vote sateal

Shadow knight was lurker scum.

[Pyromaniac]

I don't think shadow knight ever said anything that contributed.

[Pyromaniac]

Also, he uses outguessing the mod to support his points. Has anybody thought of the possibility that there could be a SK and one of the factions got their kill blocked?

[Pyromaniac]

Because shadow knight has been replaced, no?

[Pyromaniac]

Oh, never mind

unvote

.

[Pyromaniac]

OMG, HI SETAEL~!

hiallwhosscum?

Naomi.

[Pyromaniac]

@amished why did you protect naomi? She is the top scumspect.

[Pyromaniac]

vote sateal

[Pyromaniac]

My pressure on you has also yielded a few interesting things, including showing the minimalist/opportunistic/non-reading (*cough*...heh...*cough*) nature of some people. Pyro went ahead and voted Setael even after he realized that she was not SKnight's replacement. There's no questioning, reasoning, or probing there and a great deal of what he's done is fly around from person to person to person with his vote. Paired with the way I remember he followed Lamont to me early in Day 1 (along with Naomi), I'm comfortable with:

unvote, vote Pyro

I have contributed far more than some people :cough: :cough: naomi :cough: :cough:. I have supported my vote a little bit. Sateal has been trying to outguess the mod and argue about balance. We do not know any of the scums member's powers. Thus we cannot discuss balance of this game. He has been attacking a very very powerful claimed role.

unvote, vote Zwet

(well, come on, he's just useless and you know the scum ain't gonna NK him)

This is horrible reasoning for vigging someone.

@Nyx somewhere
How do you say that naomi's claim isn't scummy?

1422
I have not been a lurker. Saying whom you think is scum is the very definition of contributing. That is more then you can say.

@elmo That is part of it. I would be perfectly fine with attacking amished's claim if she did not do it in a way like she was pretending to know the mechanics and roles of the game (tl;dr through balance).

[Pyromaniac]

[quote="Pyromaniac"Naomi.

YAUS, SUCCESS, YOU WINS THE PRIZE!!![/quote]
What is this?

[Pyromaniac]

We tend to talk a lot. I bet we will get over 200 pages.

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST

Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

[Pyromaniac]

@Pyro, you're pulling for my lynch really hard, aren't you?

How is this bad? It is amazingly obvious that your claim is BS.

[Pyromaniac]

I want to know when you decided that I was scum? Was it when you saw my claim, or was it my stance on the Decanter? All in all, you came out right and said I had to die, before you really had evidence to back it up... then you disappeared after people stopped siding with you, only to re-appear when you thought you had more to incriminate me on.. You're lurking scum...

I AM NOT LURKING! Lets take a poll. Out of the people who are not vote for me, vigging me or name naomi who thinks I am lurking. I had evidence before I voted for you. I posted it just a little bit after I voted for you. I thought you were scum when I voted for you. I knew it after you claimed.

[Pyromaniac]

What? That has nothing to do with the fact that he's been gunning for me before anyone really knew anything about me, he's been popping in only often enough to look like he's contributing to the game and then he disappears again...

Well, until there's a counterclaim, or until I'm confirmed in my role, there's no real way to know, now is there?

No, I was the 6th person to vote for you I think. A possible reason why their is no CC: Mods tend to mass-claim proof their games. Possible she is trilby. Maybe the mafia is like the meddlers.

[Pyromaniac]

There is only one thing we know for sure about each others roles, assuming hohum's role does not say that the goblet is not harmful, if he is scum then I am town. We cannot trust anybodies random. I think that the person who has the most votes, with FoS counting as half a vote, should be forced to drink it.

Hohum is confirmed town... Pyro you might be town or scum...

Hohum was not a confirmed town at the time of that post. You were basically saying in that post is that hohum can do whatever the hell he wants with the decanter, you might as well let him decide who to lynch. Hohum getting the decanter was probably random.

And you jumped down my throat for my comment in 369... as far as memory serves, you hadn't though me suspicious until after that..

That was the one of the first (if not the first) suspicious post you made.

You also threw my opinion, and reasoning behind it, right out the window... when I thought the town was wasting it's time arguing about the decanter... It ended up costing us, but gave us a confirmed innocent. Hohum was right about it being distracting the way everyone was arguing about it, so he drank it... He is confirmed innocent, my role has yet to be confirmed, but when it does... Will the town trust me?

The town will not trust you when your roll is confirmed because that confirmation will be confirming you of being scum. You said something like "I think we should do this. It's not my fault if anything goes wrong with doing this it is not my fault not my fault at all it is someone else's fault not mine most definitely someone else's AHHHHHHHHHHH! But maybe we should do something else."

Pyro isn't lurking like some people who have recently been replaced, but he seems to be conveniently missing during some points of discussion.

Like what?

[Pyromaniac]

considering it ended up hurting hohum more then anything else... I don't see how you can make the relation to lynching... it was just like a day vig item. The only reason I said we should let him make the decision was because every was making a fuss on whether or not it should be used. I felt that we could gain more information that way, then if we continued to argue about it.

Suspicious because I called you on a post, which I later deemed competently reasonable, but you continued to bandwagon me?

And what if my role does come up innocent Pyro?

Proven fact: Lynches come out better with everyone making them then a random person making them. This was kind of like a lynch and one person made it and guess what: it turned out worse.
Since when is arguing a bad thing in mafia?
What?
"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be true." This means that you are
A. Scum.
B. have a case of extremely short term memory loss.
As you appear to have a decant memory, we can eliminate B.

[Pyromaniac]

Yep. At the time of hohum drinking the decanter the method for selecting who drank the decanter had been selected. IIRC you would have probably been made to drink it, which would have been good. I also forgot C and D, you being a jester and SK respectively.

[Pyromaniac]

How bout we vig on the 20th? We don't want a repeat of yesterday.

[Pyromaniac]

The deadline is on the 5th. It could take a while for AJ to get replaced. Dev didn't vote last on the lynch last time. We do NOT want a repeat of yesterday.

[Pyromaniac]

Wait amished gets 2 votes?

[Pyromaniac]

Getting better, now he has 1.5 votes.

[Pyromaniac]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

: not yet established (but vote now!)

Setael-3 (Lamont, Pyro, Amished)

Pablo-2 (Setael, Tajo)
Sironi-2 (Zwet, Naomi)
Devastation-2 (Stepho, Rock)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)
Stepho-1 (Sironi)
Tajo-1 (Xtoxm)

Not vig-voting scum:

Devastation, AJ, Elmo

Fix,d

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Even if they do completely convict her I'm going to hold of the lynch until we get her supposed cop report.

ie. lynch scum now or later

It is almost impossible to interpret it in a protown way.

[Pyromaniac]

The thing that makes naomi's claim so scummy is the 2 posts in between the claim changing. In one she says that she is only UNKable, in the other she says says something like "A cop ability would be expected...".

[Pyromaniac]

Because if we lynch her first then me lose or vig.

[Pyromaniac]

are*

[Pyromaniac]

I think we should set a date for viging. Screw anyone who hasn't voted by then. Even if AJ or tajo hasn't been replaced.

[Pyromaniac]

The

OMGUS

ALARM

rings loud and clear, it says "vig sateal".

[Pyromaniac]

I wasn't claiming that. I was already voting for him. I was making a reference that only I get, probably.

[Pyromaniac]

Sorry if I haven't been posting recently. I haven't seen anything post worthy. Was there anything, aside from people ignoring my case against naomi?

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Reposting since it got ignored by everybody except one person.


Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

[Pyromaniac]

I wasn't talking to you when I said ignoring. Only two people who were not voting for naomi acknowledged it's existence.

[Pyromaniac]

ATTN ROON: YOU ARE OFFICIALLY LURKING! YOU HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO READ! DIE! DIE! DIE!

[Pyromaniac]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

What are you on? Whatever it is, I want some.

[Pyromaniac]

^^^ I'm starting to believe that too...

I don't know what to think on Pyro though... (I may have attacked him quite a bit, but I find the way he's playing to be very poor)
He's playing like Hohum in a lot of ways... but I can't say if it's good or bad.

You stole some of whatever ser is on I assume?

[Pyromaniac]

As I stated before, I didn't use my 1-shot last night phase, because I wanted to know what the town felt would be best.

Total bullshit. You say I'm playing badly.

[Pyromaniac]

Yes, but that means I'm going to have to join a wagon, for the sake of progress. I'm not happy about having to do so, but I'm not interested in voting for someone and having my vote wasted I'm here to help the town, not hinder it... Keeping my vote the way it was would be a complete waste.

This is an anti-town post. She says she does not want to join a wagon, while wagons are the only way the town move forward.

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Reposting since it got ignored by everybody except one person.


Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

steph and everybody else not voting for naomi answer this.

[Pyromaniac]

Tajo, can you please state each person's scumminess on a rating at the end of the post?

[Pyromaniac]

And can you also do naomi?

[Pyromaniac]

I am most definetly not feeling the lamont wagon.

[Pyromaniac]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
I thought we had lurkertajo contributing. I guess I was wrong.

[Pyromaniac]

It was. I want more of it. I thought he was going to post it all, but he didn't.

[Pyromaniac]

YAY! I thought tajo was going to pull a disappearing act for a while.

[Pyromaniac]

Yes.

[Pyromaniac]

My problem with her is that she is theorizing about the balance of the game.

[Pyromaniac]

Pyro, unless I'm mistaken, what she said was roughly "a doc that can self-protect and protect multiple people? That sounds brokenly imbalanced if the mafia can't roleblock it!" which seems a pretty understandable reaction to me. And she's been clear about it being a theory and definitely not a reason to kill Amished today; it's not like she was pushing an Amished lynch for speculative reasons. So I don't really get what you're suspicious of, there.

As amish ed said, we don't know what the scum have. They could have a double kill or something. This reality shift sounds like a sanity flip.

[Pyromaniac]

Depends, I think.

[Pyromaniac]

Can zwet, setael and dev please do a scumlist?

[Pyromaniac]

1. Nyx - Historical Advisor Seems somewhat pro town. Hasn't done anything anti town. 7/10
2. Pyromaniac - Thief 10/10
3.

Shadow Knight

dramonic - TV anchorman Seems reasonable. Hasn't posted enough to make up for SK's active lurking. 6/10
4. populartajo - Best Boy Lurker, getting better. 6/10
5. Lamont_Cranston - Make-up Artiste Pro town 10/10
6. Sironigous - Bodyguard to TV Anchor 4/10
7.

Queen Elizabeth II

Stephoscope - Thief ???
8. Devestation - Cameraman 3/10
9.

UnofficialRulerofEveryone

zwetschenwasser - Sound Engineer Seems like town zwet to me. 8/10
10.

hohum

Elmo - Thief 10/10
11.

NuevaVida

Rockatansky - Groundskeeper LURKER ALERT 4/10
12. Amished - Wardrobe Manager 8/10
13.

Malkon

Setael - Schoolboy 2/10
14.

Alabaska J

ZazieR - Gaffer Liked AJ. Zazie hasn't posted anything meaningful. 7/10
15. Xtoxm - Policeman 9/10

16.

Kratos

The Replacement - Schoolboy (Innocent, killed N1.

17. Pablo Molinero - Policeman ehhhh 5/10
18. Naomi_Saotome - Make-up Artiste -5000/10

19. Sajin - Historical Advisor's Research Assistant (Innocent, killed N1

[Pyromaniac]

Power roles might not want to have an item. However, dev claimed vanilla.

[Pyromaniac]

Regarding Page (Yes, Page) 57:

Pyro, you called Shadow lurker scum. Now, he''s been replaced, yet you didn''t mention this after the replacement got in. Why''s this?
Also, why did you vote Setael after you realised she didn''t replace Shadow?

Lurkers should be pressured, not lynched.

[Pyromaniac]

It is a black mark. It is not enough on its own to get a vote for the replacement, though.

Unvote, vote stepho

Competing bandwagon are not bad.

[Pyromaniac]

i am ding this fro my ipone so i appoligolze for any tpos. i think we sould exrend the deadkine to th 28.

[Pyromaniac]

He now thinks naomi is town.

[Pyromaniac]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[Pyromaniac]

I don't feel any need to waste more time explaining my thoughts on Naomi, given that she is apparently not a candidate for vig or lynch.

wat

[Pyromaniac]

Well, my research has proven that BOTH Naomi & Stepho cannot be scum.

It is because of:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 58#1697158 post #985 -- Third votecount with 32 hours left -- NAOMI now leads the pack with 7 votes.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 63#1697363 post #989 -- Stepho votes Naomi out of the blue for no reason and puts her at L-2

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 80#1697480 post #1020 -- Stepho now attacks Naomi for her claim which justifies his earlier vote before her claim

There was no reason for Stepho to vote Naomi

before

she "claimed" but he did so and put her at L-2. No scum will do that to another for no reason.

It was clear naomi was going to lynched that day. Bussing.

[Pyromaniac]

Also lamont, different factions.

[Pyromaniac]

Also lamont, different factions.

What was this aimed at?

Lamont, who said that Naomi was cleared if stepho was scum.

[Pyromaniac]

I don't feel any need to waste more time explaining my thoughts on Naomi, given that she is apparently not a candidate for vig or lynch.

wat

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Reposting since it got ignored by everybody except one person.


Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

[Pyromaniac]

Two kills.

[Pyromaniac]

I don't feel any need to waste more time explaining my thoughts on Naomi, given that she is apparently not a candidate for vig or lynch.

wat

She doesn't have votes for the vig, and I tend to believe she is protected. I didn't realize she had a couple votes for the lynch, and I will certainly step in and defend her if need be...but I still really don't want to talk about the lynch until we know what the vig results are.

If it's clear I'm going to be vigged, of course, I will do my best to help the town beforehand (while simultaneously trying to save myself--it'd be a mistake)

She is the most likely lynch candidate. She would already be vigged is she could be.

[Pyromaniac]

Can everyone please post a scum list similar to Xtoxm's and mine?

[Pyromaniac]

1. Nyx - Historical Advisor Seems somewhat pro town. Hasn't done anything anti town. 7/10
2. Pyromaniac - Thief 10/10
3.

Shadow Knight

dramonic - TV anchorman Seems reasonable. Hasn't posted enough to make up for SK's active lurking. 6/10
4. populartajo - Best Boy Lurker, getting better. 6/10
5. Lamont_Cranston - Make-up Artiste Pro town 10/10
6. Sironigous - Bodyguard to TV Anchor 4/10
7.

Queen Elizabeth II

Stephoscope - Thief ???
8. Devestation - Cameraman 3/10
9.

UnofficialRulerofEveryone

zwetschenwasser - Sound Engineer Seems like town zwet to me. 8/10
10.

hohum

Elmo - Thief 10/10
11.

NuevaVida

Rockatansky - Groundskeeper LURKER ALERT 4/10
12. Amished - Wardrobe Manager 8/10
13.

Malkon

Setael - Schoolboy 2/10
14.

Alabaska J

ZazieR - Gaffer Liked AJ. Zazie hasn't posted anything meaningful. 7/10
15. Xtoxm - Policeman 9/10

16.

Kratos

The Replacement - Schoolboy (Innocent, killed N1.

17. Pablo Molinero - Policeman ehhhh 5/10
18. Naomi_Saotome - Make-up Artiste -5000/10

19. Sajin - Historical Advisor's Research Assistant (Innocent, killed N1

Requoting mine. Looking for Xtoxm's.

[Pyromaniac]

1. Nyx - ???
2. Pyromaniac - Town
3. Shadow Knightdramonic - ???
4. populartajo - ???
5. Lamont_Cranston - Town
6. Sironigous - Town
7. Queen Elizabeth IIStephoscope - Lean Town
8. Devestation - Lean Town
9. UnofficialRulerofEveryonezwetschenwasser - ???
10. hohumElmo - Town
11. NuevaVidaRockatansky - Lean Town
12. Amished - Town
13. MalkonSetael - ???
14. Alabaska J - Lean Town
15. Xtoxm - Town
16. KratosThe Replacement - Schoolboy (Innocent, killed N1.
17. Pablo Molinero - ???
18. Naomi_Saotome - ???
19. Sajin - Historical Advisor's Research Assistant (Innocent, killed N1

That leaves me 7 suspects...Well 6 for all intents and purposes...

Vig Zwet

I usually find him obvtown.

Seteal looks genuine here.

[Pyromaniac]

@Nyx Before you vig get on one of the main wagons.
@Dev. Unvote plox. If you are town it hurts the town. If you are scum it hurts the scum. SO no matter which side you are on, you should unvote.

[Pyromaniac]

Sure whatever.

[Pyromaniac]

One of the factions could be the SK. Naomi of steph could be the SK. They would still both be scum.

[Pyromaniac]

I think stepho should be vigged over dev.

[Pyromaniac]

He is v/la.

[Pyromaniac]

Elmo is confirmed.

[Pyromaniac]

Lynching a lurker will not help.

[Pyromaniac]

Just do it.

No. Majority of town is needed. If we go with just "a lot" of votes you'll see it's too easy for the informed minority to influence the votes. We talked about this earlier ( during the decanter options )

DIE

Unvote, vote nyx

[Pyromaniac]

PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT VOTING FOR NAOMI OR WOULD NOT BE IF THEY DID NOT WANT TO VIG SOMEONE FIRST
Please explain how the following sequences of post do not convict naomi. I may have gotten some of the post numbers wrong. Two is the most important.

1. 998, 1002, 1006, 1015, 1028, (stalling for time)
2. 1031, 1033, 1038

Reposting since it got ignored by everybody except one person.


Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

[Pyromaniac]

And wikipedia says yes to the gun question.

[Pyromaniac]

Actually no, I misinterpreted it. We should try to fire anyways. And then lynch naomi.

[Pyromaniac]

(this may seem suspicious, but I was think 8 bore was smaller than 12 bore, which a wiki article tells me the 20 bore is smaller than 12 bore.)

[Pyromaniac]

I know. That is why it won't work. We should try it anyways though.

[Pyromaniac]

You shouldn't, according to wikipedia, be able to fit a 8-bore shell into a 12 bore shotgun.

[Pyromaniac]

Well since we can't shoot or have confirmation we can shoot we're screwed untill mod reply. I don't like Pyro voting me for something that clearly is something that is troublesome.

Unvote:

She claimed and explained why she wasn't hunting naomi anymore. Sounds like fair claim to me don't know why zazier is hammering the innocent thing. thus far 2 other people claimed "innocent" in their VT claim. Would make sense then that her PM said something about protecting other innocents.

You're pushing very hard zazier. You even told me too just shoot and get it over with. Definitely a anti-town position you worked yourself in now.

FoS: zazier

This is why I am voting for you. You stall and stall.

Unvote, vote deves

HAMMA!
Stepho is almost confirmed. One of you guys should cop lamont.

[Pyromaniac]

Fuck.

vote devesation

[Pyromaniac]

Next time, we should vote on who should pick up the item. That's my opinion of it.

This would work better, yeah.

Hell no. Last time it took 3 weeks to get a poll done.

[Pyromaniac]

We need to be sure Amished's replacement is caught up before this day ends. The replacement cannot have any excuse to not protect Naomi and Stepho tonight. If either of them die, imo Amished was lying about his claim.

Naomi is NK immune.

[Pyromaniac]

All of stepho's scummyness goes away when you assume he is a cop.

[Pyromaniac]

Next time, we should vote on who should pick up the item. That's my opinion of it.

This would work better, yeah.

Hell no. Last time it took 3 weeks to get a poll done.

Well, it needs to be done a lot more efficiently. There is no need for it to take so long.

This day could very well end in no lynch.

[Pyromaniac]

You shouldn't not vote for someone whom you think is scum because they are voting for you. And my play style hasn't changed. We have just received new information.

[Pyromaniac]

Let's do a post analysis of Rock

1. Attacks Lamont with his reasons for voting being ridiculous.

2. Speculation about how the shotgun shell is apparently not a vig item. Of course it's to be used as a supository

3. Accuses Xtoxm of flooding the thread with item speculation without actually bringing an intelligent explanation to the shell (mind you, it's a pretty obvious item)

4. Plays victim

5. vigvote dev without ANY explanation

6.

Also, someone just have me prodded once all this vig nonsense is over with.

Nice way of not participating. He's not even V/LA, he's just running away. Useful way to avoid suspicion, when you don't say anything.

7. Use of fail logic to push more of his illusions on the town about lynching Lamont

8. Fails to understand basic logic when faced with it

9. Twists people's intentions to fit his needs.


Yeah, he's scummy alright.

Aw, little baby is butthurt that he got caught

Shaddup, lurker. Actually don't.

[Pyromaniac]

Zwet is V/LA.

[Pyromaniac]

unvote

Vote: Rock

[Pyromaniac]

Sir, that's not helping.

Was that directed at me?

Pretty sure Rock is town.

He is a scummy lurker.

Also still pretty sure Steph is scum, his claim makes no sense. It's possible he has some sort of power like that, but he's still scum.

If you assume he is a cop his actions make perfect sense and are not scummy at all. Of course there is the possibility of a gambit but, that would be a very huge gambit. If someone had hammered Naomi and she was town then he would have been the next lynch.

[Pyromaniac]

MOD: Role is not revealed upon death. Only alignment. Confirm, deny or confirm opposite?

[Pyromaniac]

MOD: Role is not revealed upon death. Only alignment. Confirm, deny or confirm opposite?

Sure ask the same thing I just asked one page ago...

Oops. Oh well.

[Pyromaniac]

Role is revealed. "Innocent" means Vanilla.

3.

Innocents

win if they destroy all Evil players. The Evil characters win when they have a majority, and are deemed powerful enough to over-power any and all remaining factions.

[Pyromaniac]

I doubt anyone would host a pure vanilla theme game.

[Pyromaniac]

I am saying we have several claimed power roles. I am saying I doubt the probability of a vanilla theme game, though it could happen.

[Pyromaniac]

I doubt anyone would host a pure vanilla theme game.

Past ages Mafia, a large theme.

Still, it is rare.

[Pyromaniac]

Stepho should be the first to say it.

[Pyromaniac]

Damn I need to stop missing stuff.

[Pyromaniac]

Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

[Pyromaniac]

Holy shit.

Unvote, vote stepho.

Diediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediediedie

[Pyromaniac]

Actually, I guess it's possible that "Innocent" is both an alignment and a role, and non-vanilla reveals would have an annexation.

Yeah. Townie is a role that implies an alignment. Another game might be "X dies, she was a townie" & "X dies, she was a town roleblocker". I am guessing here we have "X dies, she was an innocent" & "X dies, she was an innocent roleblocker".

The mod has contradicted this. I assume you are not there yet.

[Pyromaniac]

Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

[Pyromaniac]

Rock or stepho are clearly the only people who will be lynched today.

Can everyone please get on the stepho or rock wagon.

[Pyromaniac]

^that.

[Pyromaniac]

Anyone not voting for Stephoscope or Rock are voting for no lynch. Or V/LA. Or inactive.

[Pyromaniac]

And amished, does your role say innocent in it?

[Pyromaniac]

And get a mac.

[Pyromaniac]

The question is would you consider yourself an innocent if the mod had never mentioned the word? From what I understand the answer is no.

[Pyromaniac]

Stepho said he was an innocent. Lets look at the colours. Green is normally pro-town, red-pro-mafia, sometimes different factions have different colours like purple. Blue is neutral.

[Pyromaniac]

Rock or stepho are clearly the only people who will be lynched today.

Can everyone please get on the stepho, dramonic or rock wagon.

Fine.

[Pyromaniac]

Are you an infamous gentlemen thief? Or just a gentlemen thief?

[Pyromaniac]

Rock or stepho are clearly the only people who will be lynched today.

Can everyone please get on the stepho, dramonic or rock wagon.

[Pyromaniac]

I am not pushing dramonic. I am pushing stepho. I want to avoid a no lynch. Those are the only plausible wagons. If it looks like this one day before deadline we should just lynch the #1 wagon.

[Pyromaniac]

according to my pm, it says nothing about infamous... it just says Trilby, Gentleman thief.

gg stepho

[Pyromaniac]

according to my pm, it says nothing about infamous... it just says Trilby, Gentleman thief.

gg stepho

[Pyromaniac]

Naomi says stepho is scum.

[Pyromaniac]

Stepho said he was an innocent. Lets look at the colours. Green is normally pro-town, red-pro-mafia, sometimes different factions have different colours like purple. Blue is neutral.

Are you saying that Innocents are neutral

I'm not saying they are SK or survivor, I am saying that blue is an odd colour to use for the village.

[Pyromaniac]

Well, never mind then.

[Pyromaniac]

As for Stepho - I am torn about the claim and I certainly see what is being considered a contradiction. However, I do NOT think he should be lynched today. When the mod first posted that Innocents are completely separate from the "Good" faction, I was sure Stepho was scum. However, then he made this statement:

I am not a "Vanillager". I have the abilities I claimed. My PM specifically states "and fellow Innocents", and I am quite obviously a pro-town role.

It is possible that Stepho misspoke when he said he was Innocent. It appears he was inferring this from the “fellow Innocents” phrase. I think it is possible that the “good” faction (i.e. power roles) have “fellow innocents” though they are not themselves an Innocent.

He said that he was an innocent. He now says he is not an innocent. A power role would know that they were not an innocent. Did he misspeak when he said Naomi's role is "Infamous Gentlemen thief"?

I then started thinking that it seems like Stepho's PM should have said he is on the side of “Good” and I think he'd have mentioned that when he claimed if it does. However, then Amished's did not mention his role PM saying he is "Good".

It says he is on the side of the humans.

I think there is a chance Stepho is telling the truth about his claim, and anything that seems to be contradicting what the mod said has come from Stepho misspeaking or misunderstanding game mechanics that really weren't clear to any of us until the mod clarified in thread.

It has been proven that he has lied. WHy would he?

Because there is a chance of this, I think it would be very wise for those on the Stepho wagon to switch. Stepho should be given at the very least one more night to find scum or clear another person. (There is also a LOT of sense in stepho's statement that it has been narrowed down quite a bit today and his pool is very small for finding scum tonight.)

No.

Although purposing polices is usually bad, I have one to suggest. How about if we get to two days before deadline, we lynch the person with the most votes.IF there are two wagons that might possible go through (one at 6, the other at 5) then we will force everybody to chose between one of those two wagons. Sound good?

I agree with this, but I do not think Stepho should be one of the options. He should live at least one more day to give us the info he gets tonight. If we then lynch him and find out he's scum, we can disregard that info.

Of my two options, I am leaning toward thinking Dramonic is scum who knows Stepho is town.

I'd vote Dramonic here, but I already am.

If the town wants to lynch stepho, then the town should lynch stepho.

[Pyromaniac]

Stepho is scummy enough that it is worth the risk when compared to no lynch.

[Pyromaniac]

If steph is scum, we are lynch naomi tomorrow. Budding and different factions counter any "only one is scum" argument. Or SK.