The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

First of all, it''s possibly a vig kill.
So I''d like to use it on a scummy active lurker. Which is why I also proposed Rock as vig target.
But if Stepho flips, we have things to work with, which we won''t have if either Deves or Rock flips.

Anyway, on Stepho:
-Devil sign argument. Pushed this bad argument really hard and even voted you for it. Yet, when the ''Post Restriction'' from Lamont comes, he doesn''t push it.
-Trying to once again discuss the item first and after discussing the lynch, which went wrong yesterday, after a player asked what happened to the Stepho wagon of day 1.
(Which I''m curious about as well.)
Actually never mind. 3 of the 6 voters are absent. Which would leave Setael, Tox and Nyx. Opinions?

[ZazieR]

@Deves vig-voters

What information do you think we''ll get if Deves gets vigged?

[Pyromaniac]

Regarding Page (Yes, Page) 57:

Pyro, you called Shadow lurker scum. Now, he''s been replaced, yet you didn''t mention this after the replacement got in. Why''s this?
Also, why did you vote Setael after you realised she didn''t replace Shadow?

Lurkers should be pressured, not lynched.

[ZazieR]

Regarding Page (Yes, Page) 57:

Pyro, you called Shadow lurker scum. Now, he''s been replaced, yet you didn''t mention this after the replacement got in. Why''s this?
Also, why did you vote Setael after you realised she didn''t replace Shadow?

Lurkers should be pressured, not lynched.

Then why did you vote Setael?

[ZazieR]

Information we would get from a Stepho-kill:

-Bandwagon analysis of both a lynch and a vig-kill.
-Suspicions towards Lamont and Naomi can be investigated.

[Pyromaniac]

It is a black mark. It is not enough on its own to get a vote for the replacement, though.

Unvote, vote stepho

Competing bandwagon are not bad.

[ZazieR]

But I have to leave with in a few minutes >.<

I think we should use the vig kill against an active lurker, who appears scummy, and give information to work with. To me, that''s Stepho.
Second choice would be Pablo. And third either Deves or Rock.
I might be able to come online before vig-deadline, but I''m not sure. So this is all I can give regarding that discussion.

[Lamont_Cranston]

First of all, it''s possibly a vig kill. So I''d like to use it on a scummy active lurker.

I don't like this at all. I see this as a subtle attempt to devalue the info given to the town from the vig vote. Nobody can be allowed hide their vote in "I thought it only might go through" logic.

This IS a vig-vote period.

FoS Zazier

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Xtoxm, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-3 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Information we would get from a Stepho-kill:

-Bandwagon analysis of both a lynch and a vig-kill.
-Suspicions towards Lamont and Naomi can be investigated.

Hmmm...

You know I HET vanilla-claimers & self-voters tho. If he contributes like this in the engame it will only hurt us.

[Xtoxm]

First of all, it''s possibly a vig kill.
So I''d like to use it on a scummy active lurker. Which is why I also proposed Rock as vig target.
But if Stepho flips, we have things to work with, which we won''t have if either Deves or Rock flips.

Anyway, on Stepho:
-Devil sign argument. Pushed this bad argument really hard and even voted you for it. Yet, when the ''Post Restriction'' from Lamont comes, he doesn''t push it.
-Trying to once again discuss the item first and after discussing the lynch, which went wrong yesterday, after a player asked what happened to the Stepho wagon of day 1.
(Which I''m curious about as well.)
Actually never mind. 3 of the 6 voters are absent. Which would leave Setael, Tox and Nyx. Opinions?

Yeah, I can see him doing it as town though. That said, Dev's self sacrifice looks town.

Vig Steph

You know I HET vanilla-claimers & self-voters tho. If he contributes like this in the engame it will only hurt us.

Objectively, this comes from town most of the time.

[Pablo Molinero]

That said, Dev's self sacrifice looks town.

Really? We're excusing this kind of play?

[Lamont_Cranston]

You know I HET vanilla-claimers & self-voters tho. If he contributes like this in the engame it will only hurt us.

Objectively, this comes from town most of the time.

There is NO WAY to prove this. A vanilla claim is a perfect place to hide for scum and it is anti-town, helping the scum find the town PR's. If he self-votes he deserves to die as he is proving that he is of no help to the town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-4 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm)
Zwet-2 (Nyx, Pablo)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Xtoxm]

Ok, well, in my experience it is, then.

[Elmo]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Also, Pablo, Nyx, get on a main wagon. Zwets business with Tajo seemed townish, and I don't think he'll get enough support in any case.

[Lamont_Cranston]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Can you point to anywhere in this game where he has been helpful? If not, why would you expect otherwise?

[Setael]

2 reasons I'm not getting behind the Stepho wagon:

1- the presence of a counter wagon that might succeed actually makes me feel better about vigging dev. I would expect scum to fight it, so if it was too easy I'd be worried. Elmo we know is town but if dev flips scum zaz, pyro and xtoxm will need to be looked at. I think scum would feel comfortable about this since dev's wagon derails MY wagon so if they're accused they can point to my wagon as a sort of alibi.

2- steph's post that she thinks I'm town at a crucial point. Scum would have had no reason not to weigh in against me at that point and she wouldn't have been suspect when I flipped town. Basically, same reason I changed my mind about Lamont.

[Pablo Molinero]

Fine.

Unvote, Vote: Dev

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

8am GMT June 26(?)

Devastation-8 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Lamont, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Setael-4 (Amished, Sironi, Zwet, Dramonic)
Stepho-4 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ok this time Dev really is at V-1.

Oh and I forgot to add defense abandonment to the list...

[Lamont_Cranston]

EBWOP --> The V-1 is just a reference point. I don't think we've agreed to follow that convention with this vig.

[populartajo]

This steph counterwagon is kinda unexpected and I dont know why but it feels off, forced. First, dev is a very nice wagon and second because its too late to suspect steph when all the information against him was always in the thread.

zazie, xtoxm and pyro. Did you really expect steph to be vigged before Dev?

Im keeping my dev vote, btw. I dont see any merit in derailing a nice wagon so near to deadline. His selfvote is null and Im leaning to not believe it since I dont see dev who is so conservative to selfvote as town.

[Elmo]

I think it's intriguing. Eight hours 'till tentative deadline, anyway.

[Lamont_Cranston]

What Xtoxm said, basically. This is contingent on him (Dev) being helpful in the future.

Can you point to anywhere in this game where he has been helpful? If not, why would you expect otherwise?