The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[Lamont_Cranston]

Wow. It saddens me that Elmo has to die soon...

[Elmo]

To clarify - in this game, an Innocent is someone entirely uninvolved in the struggle between any Good faction/s and any Evil faction/s, and should be considered the equivalent of a Vanillager.

Okay, no, that is contradicted by this. That would imply that Innocents are not a Good faction, but everything strongly implies that we both want to kill off Evil faction(s). Maybe Good factions need to accomplish further goals or something.

Okay. Uh. Yeah. I

think

Steph has to be lying? This is confusing. :\

[Lamont_Cranston]

I'm willing to posit that "fellow innocents" could easily mean fellow town-aligned players.

[Elmo]

My PM about Naomi's role uses the term "pro-town"

What the hell!?

[Lamont_Cranston]

Maybe the Mod likes your siggie?

[Elmo]

Okay. Yes. Innocents are not Good or Evil, as per KoC's 2370, and all Innocents are in the same faction. Therefore, Innocents belong to a faction that is not Good and not Evil, which I will call Innocent-faction.

Okay, Stepho claimed to be Innocent.
If he meant Innocent-Role then he's clearly lying.
If he meant "I am part of Innocent-faction", then he's also lying, since he claimed a power role and as per rule 2b, only Good and Evil factions have power roles.

unvote, vote Stephoscope

Lamont: I mean, there has been no reference to a "town" of any kind all game. In fact the mod has specifically avoided it to keep to the flavour. I think it's far more likely he's lying about being told someone is "pro-town".

[Lamont_Cranston]

Ya I noticed that too. I'll wait for Stepho to respond before I hop on...

[Devestation]

Wait, let me get this straight.

We have a "GOOD" team as well on top of the Innocents. We should determine whether they are against the Innocents or acting with them.

[Elmo]

Pretty sure Good are opposed to Evil.
Innocents win when they kill all Evil players.
It is possible that some Good factions do not require all Evil players dead to win (it would be a break from tradition although it's not unheard of, e.g. Vengeful) and equally they may have additional goals they need to complete to win.

So our interests are clearly aligned, albeit maybe they're not identical. I am pretty happy just assuming we're working together unless something appears to contradict that.

[ZazieR]

My role PM specifically states that I am on the side of fellow Innocents.

However, Innocents apparently aren''t, as it doesn''t mention ''fellow Innocents''. Naomi has stated this as well.

My PM about Naomi's role uses both the terms "pro-town" and "anti-Spirit".

Uhum?!
Didn''t you say ''Innocent and/or pro-town'' first? And now, you don''t mention the Innocent in this post. The reason for that is?

[ZazieR]

Don't you think you're pushing a bit too hard Zazie?

If you disagree with the points that I bring up that show that Stepho is lying, please say why. Because I''m of the opinion that he''s scum.

[ZazieR]

The mod has made clear the "Good factions" are seperate to Innocents.

He did?
Uhm, I think an example is better to use to what I think he''s saying:

Batman is fighting that Penguin Guy who had tied bombs to the back of his Penguin army. While they are fighting, you see the Penguins walking into the city. The ''Innocents'' are in their homes, doing their daily stuff as they don''t know that Penguins have gone suicidal. In other words, they aren''t involved in the battle between Good and Evil. Yet, they want to be save and therefore want Batman to win.

I hope this is understandable to what I think the mod meant.

[ZazieR]

Damn, Elmo''s posts are confusing me.
I agree with this though:

Lamont: I mean, there has been no reference to a "town" of any kind all game. In fact the mod has specifically avoided it to keep to the flavour. I think it's far more likely he's lying about being told someone is "pro-town".

[Xtoxm]

The mod has made clear the "Good factions" are seperate to Innocents.

He did?
Uhm, I think an example is better to use to what I think he''s saying:

Batman is fighting that Penguin Guy who had tied bombs to the back of his Penguin army. While they are fighting, you see the Penguins walking into the city. The ''Innocents'' are in their homes, doing their daily stuff as they don''t know that Penguins have gone suicidal. In other words, they aren''t involved in the battle between Good and Evil. Yet, they want to be save and therefore want Batman to win.

I hope this is understandable to what I think the mod meant.

Yes, I think that's probably right, I just mean that there's a distinction between them.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Vote Count

Stephoscope: 5 - Xtoxm, Pyromanic, tajo, Elmo, ZazieR
Rockatansky: 2 - dramonic, Lamont_Cranston
Devestation: 2 - Naomi_Saotome, zwetschenwasser
Lamont_Cranston: 1 - Rockatansky
Dramonic: 1 - Setael
Setael: 1 - Amished

You have 2 days, 20 hours and 29 minutes to make a lynch.

[/i]

[Pyromaniac]

Anyone not voting for Stephoscope or Rock are voting for no lynch. Or V/LA. Or inactive.

[Amished]

I'm extremely sorry to everyone for my absence. Nasty computer virus into vacation made it impossible for me to be here or to have people know that I was gone. I'll be catching up today.

[Xtoxm]

Wow. Good timing, though.

[ZazieR]

Wow. Good timing, though.

This. Could you respond to Stepho''s claim and Post 2189?

[ZazieR]

Mod, I''m also voting Stepho

[ZazieR]

And Amished, could you give the flavour that is mentioned in your claimed role?
An elaboration about ''Gatekeeper'' would be nice as well.

[Stephoscope]

My role PM specifically states that I am on the side of fellow Innocents.

However, Innocents apparently aren''t, as it doesn''t mention ''fellow Innocents''. Naomi has stated this as well.

My PM about Naomi's role uses both the terms "pro-town" and "anti-Spirit".

Uhum?!
Didn''t you say ''Innocent and/or pro-town'' first? And now, you don''t mention the Innocent in this post. The reason for that is?

I said that was just a GUESS in regards to "alignment". The word "Innocent" does not appear in my PM about Naomi. But it appears in mine. The words "pro-town" and "anti-Spirit" specifically appear in my PM about Naomi.

I am in disbelief that I am the front runner for being lynched based on only perceived inconsistency with my PMs. Is every single thing I have done not in line with my role?

I think it's stating the obvious to say that all of this terrible outing of Innocent roles means that it's pretty clear who are the power roles or scum. Let me take a crack at finding scum tonight. If I lie, kill me.

[Pyromaniac]

And amished, does your role say innocent in it?

[Pyromaniac]

And get a mac.

[Amished]

Starting from page 60:

WRT: Naomi's Trilby claim. Trilby goes through several clues, and then finds out that there's 1 bad guy and fingers them as evil. Even though Trilby investigates over several days, he still really only finds that there's just the welder and he's evil.

For the storyline of Trilby's games (full) he kills himself once in the third? might've been second.. game to save the world, but in doing so he only transports himself to Chzo's world to be eternally tortured and therefore never does *really* die.

@Zaz (questioning my PM's, role, etc.): I assume that KoC wouldn't tell me what would happen N3 (when Ho/Elmo was supposed to die) if I protected him then due to the fact that he was already under the blood's effect. However, with items upcoming if it was a flat out kill mechanic I would protect from that. I get people to where they need to be, but not always in the best of conditions.

The Gatekeeper is another name for my character. Just like the tall man is also the prince, and the welder also has a mortal name (can't remember it off the top of my head).

Also, rephrasing

@Hohum/everybody: When hohum became confirmed innocent I wanted to ask him if he had flavor of somebody in game, or just a vanilla innocent pm. I held back as obviously that would've tipped off that I wasn't vanilla, and probably would've come under flak for that and not being able to prevent a mislynch on Naomi that it looks like so far.

Hohum became an Innocent when he drank the blood. At that since I'm not just an innocent I wanted to know how that role PM went. I refrained from asking as I was not planning to claim, and that would've pegged me as either a power role or scum, and would've forced me to claim without potentially benefitting anybody else by being able to claim at another time. I'm still not fully convinced that having the innocent role pm wording out there will help, so I didn't (and still am not) pressing that.

In my PM, it doesn't say anything about being innocent, but it does tell me of which alignment I am. In other words: my PM does not specifically state that I'm an innocent, but that I'm human-aligned. I thought that innocents were roles rather than just alignments. Our version of VT's, basically. Until it was brought up, I just thought I was basically innocent aligned, and innocent myself but with extra benefits. Would I consider myself innocent (in terms of theme/alignment-wise)? Yes.

@Zaz (again): For the Malcolm/Jonathan thing: Going back to look at the games, it appears that KoC didn't fully do his research. Jonathan was the name of my father that I killed and took his position on the SS Mephistopheles. That's probably where he got screwed up as for almost the whole game (7 days a stranger) I was referred to as Jonathan.

It appears that LC was in the wrong for accusing Nyx of scum-stalling. On that issue, it was entirely plausible for Nyx to not have access or something preventing him from posting. To then advocate that heavily to vote him when he has the probable vig items (if waited) seems like he's playing exactly how he feels scum would play (scared of vigs).

We need to be sure Amished's replacement is caught up before this day ends. The replacement cannot have any excuse to not protect Naomi and Stepho tonight. If either of them die, imo Amished was lying about his claim.

So you forgot that Naomi still claimed NK-immune? Just pointing this out that I'm not the only one.

Also, with the now talk of the vanillager type role, and as a non-vanilla role here; like I said above, I have a similar win-condition but it's not exactly what's stated in the rules. It doesn't specifically state anything about innocent/evil, but I win when threats to the humans are eliminated. To me, this indicates that the baddies are god-types, (chzo, the prince, the welder). That, or I win alongside town, or win at a different point if there is a cult (as in the games the cult was all humans worshiping Chzo.) Because of this (and what Steph has posted on page 96 about Naomi being anti-spirit) I fully believe Steph's claim, and now believe Naomi to be cleared as well through Steph's investigation.

(BTW: I also want to point out that I was never prodded for this game >_> )

For more flavor (while trying to avoid being modkilled): From going through the games, I always thought of my character as the gatekeeper, and I'm pretty sure they referred to me as that at one time. In my PM it does say Caretaker, but does say I'm Jonathan. I'm a prisoner of fate, yadda yadda yadda; delivered myself the blade to kill myself to become a spirit both directed by fate and to ensure that fate continues the way it's supposed to. Say's that because of killing myself I've become almost as powerful as the mastermind to open the bridge between worlds (Chzo). Goes into explanation how that the prisoner of fate translates into me being a doctor and saving people that need to be saved and all.

Again, just to be perfectly clear: My role does not say innocent in it anywhere. It says I win when all threats to the humans have been eliminated.

As I believe Steph, Dev's basically confirmed as a vanillager through how he stated he wasn't supposed to be here or whatever, leaves Rock (2), and LC/Dramonic at one (Set is at one, but that's cause of me). Through those 3, LC gives me enough town vibes to offset some of the things he's been doing. I do need to get a better read on Dramonic and Rock though, so I'll be dedicating time to that.