The Manor: Chzo Mafia (Game Over!)

[ZazieR]

Zwet, Dramonic and Nyx need to choose a bigger wagon, unless they can show why the one they are voting is a better choice.

[Pyromaniac]

i am ding this fro my ipone so i appoligolze for any tpos. i think we sould exrend the deadkine to th 28.

[ZazieR]

i am ding this fro my ipone so i appoligolze for any tpos. i think we sould exrend the deadkine to th 28.

Agreed, IF not everything will be about the vig-votes. There''s a lynch waiting as well.

[ZazieR]

Well you

did

forget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...

Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?

Naomi can't be vigged bc amished said he protected her...

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.

Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the third

Claiming vanilla is potentially a very scummy thing to do. Scum will hide in vanilla all day long. Self-voting can also be a scum technique to do the same as can defense abandonment but that charge no longer holds against him...

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

He definitely deserves the rope...

Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?

I understand your case for Stepho providing alot of info but frankly, there is alot of info to be gained regardless of who we vig... Gosh durn it, Devastation had better post that top 3 scummy list...

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.[/b]

[ZazieR]

Well you

did

forget to mention that he failed to vote D1 & we practically had to drag him kicking and screaming to a vig vote...

Anti-town behaviour. This doesn''t make him scum. And if this is so bad, what about Naomi?

Naomi can't be vigged bc amished said he protected her...

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

And you also conveniently forget to mention how he slef-voted, claimed vanilla and committed atrocious defense abandonment.

Since when are the first two scummy? I don''t know what you mean with the third

Claiming vanilla is potentially a very scummy thing to do. Scum will hide in vanilla all day long. Self-voting can also be a scum technique to do the same as can defense abandonment but that charge no longer holds against him...

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

He definitely deserves the rope...

Rope is lynch, not vig-kill. So state why the vig-kill should be used against Deves, while players want to use the results of the vig-kill for the lynch. Wouldn''t Stepho be a better vig-kill then?

I understand your case for Stepho providing alot of info but frankly, there is alot of info to be gained regardless of who we vig... Gosh durn it, Devastation had better post that top 3 scummy list...

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

[populartajo]

I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.

I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.

And I do really want to make that steph reread.

Vote : vig deadline extension.

[ZazieR]

I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.

I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.

And I do really want to make that steph reread.

Vote : vig deadline extension.

Well, if there will be one, can we extend it till sunday? I don''t know how long I can be online tomorrow >.<

[Stephoscope]

The way Stepho attacked Lamont is much worse, especially due to his response when Lamont was ''faking'' a PR and his response afterwards.
And that he doesn''t want to be the centre of attention during the vig discussion (Elmo asked what happened to his bandwagon of day 1)

First of all, I'm not trying to lurk. My personal life has been insanely busy and stressful lately, and not only that, but I just want to get this vig over with. I am amazed that people want to keep extending the deadline. We'll be looking at a hasty lynch or a no-lynch, as opposed to carrying out the vig sooner and having more information for a better lynch. I don't mind being a center of attention, but I didn't want to discuss lynches when the vig needed to be done. If I'm going to be a candidate for the vig, so be it, I'm more than willing to defend myself.

I attacked Lamont because I saw no reason for him to be so stubborn about the devil sign. The fake post restriction actually has some justification.

[ZazieR]

Where did Deves say you are still on his list? Because I can''t find it.

Also, the thing is, Elmo called out your wagon. Then you comment that we shouldn''t discuss a lynch yet. But when all the players vote for a lynch, you say nothing. Only when your previous wagon gets pointed out.
When this happened, it seemed that Setael would be vigged. And she, together with The Replacement (and a bit Tox), were the most against you during day 1. However, this was mainly due to her assumed scumpair: you and Deves, who also had a chance of getting shot. So if he''s town, her suspicions could have decreased against you. (This is speculation, and therefore only a thought in my mind which I wanted to say out loud).

Then there is Lamont. You attacked him when Amished said that he might have a PR as scum. You wanted to test this out.
However, later he did show a possible PR. You didn''t believe the reason he gave for this, yet you don''t ask him to not use it. So why was this?

[populartajo]

I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.

I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.

And I do really want to make that steph reread.

Vote : vig deadline extension.

Well, if there will be one, can we extend it till sunday? I don''t know how long I can be online tomorrow >.<

Sure. I wont have the time to properly read steph until this night.

Basically I want reasons for this wagon change and why it was done as soon as you brought the Steph subject to the table. Like I said it feels forced and my conspiracy sensors are tingling like crazy. Regardless of Steph alignment, it was pretty unexpected so there must be something there.

[ZazieR]

I want to extend deadline for tomorrow. One day less for our lynch deadline is not going to make the difference.

I know there has to be vital information in this wagon transference.

And I do really want to make that steph reread.

Vote : vig deadline extension.

Well, if there will be one, can we extend it till sunday? I don''t know how long I can be online tomorrow >.<

Sure. I wont have the time to properly read steph until this night.

Basically I want reasons for this wagon change and why it was done as soon as you brought the Steph subject to the table. Like I said it feels forced and my conspiracy sensors are tingling like crazy. Regardless of Steph alignment, it was pretty unexpected so there must be something there.

I can agree with you on that (Though I''m not sure if it''s forced )
But I''ll look at who switched and why after one of Stepho/Deves is vigged.

[Lamont_Cranston]

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

Your point was about the vig-vote too.

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

[Lamont_Cranston]

Vig Vote Tally

Deadline

:

June 28...

Devastation-7 (Stepho, Rock, Naomi, Tajo, Setael, Devastation, Pablo)

Stepho-6 (Zazier, Elmo, Pyro, Xtoxm, Sironi, Lamont)
Setael-3 (Amished, Zwet, Dramonic)
Zwet-1 (Nyx)

Not vig-voting scum: _

"Vote early and vote often or get the rope!"

[ZazieR]

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

Your point was about the vig-vote too.

No. I said that Deves had done two scummy things, and compared it to what Stepho had done. What you pointed out were things that are all included in anti-town behaviour. Anti-town behaviour isn''t the same as scummy behaviour.

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.

Once again, as said, the first two are included in anti-town behaviour, which isn''t the same as scummy. The third, depends on the context

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

If you think he''s town, then why are you vig-voting him???

[Lamont_Cranston]

My point was that she has done the same. Yet, nobody commented on her about it. Secondly, she''s possibly immune to the vig-kill, but not to the lynch. So, that''s not a valid argument.

Your point was about the vig-vote too.

No. I said that Deves had done two scummy things, and compared it to what Stepho had done. What you pointed out were things that are all included in anti-town behaviour. Anti-town behaviour isn''t the same as scummy behaviour.

Right but its part of the case which you left out which was my point.

The thing is, the first two can also be done by townies. To use the first against somebody, is very weak. There are more town than scum. How do you know which claim is from town and which from scum? Most of the time, you don''t. So I don''t like it that it''s used against somebody.
The selfvote is anti-town as it gives town less information. But once again, both scum and town do it. So to use this as an argument, you should first show that his selfvote was for a scum reason and not as frustrated town.
The third is indeed scummy, if it can be proven that he has actually seen of which he got accused. So that needs to be checked.

I don't care if town do it too. That's not my point and a bad reason not to vig/lynch somebody nor is it my entire argument, just things you forgot to point out.

Once again, as said, the first two are included in anti-town behaviour, which isn''t the same as scummy. The third, depends on the context

Wrong! It is part of the entire picture which needs to be examined.

Not really true. With some vig kills we''ll learn a lot, and with some just a bit. Comparing Stepho and Deves, I think that a vigkill against Stepho would give us more information.
But I agree with the last part of your paragraph.

Ya and I agree Stepho needs to start talking more because right now he is less valuable than even Deves is.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

If you think he''s town, then why are you vig-voting him???

Because he is heavily lurking and his case needs to be explored. Part of that case revolves around Naomi. We can discuss this now as well. Two competing wagons is very helpful to the town.

One thing bothers me about this Stepho wagon. He came out so strongly against Naomi. I really think this makes him town because she is obviously lying.

[Pyromaniac]

He now thinks naomi is town.

[Lamont_Cranston]

He now thinks naomi is town.

@Stepho:

You think she's town now?

[Pyromaniac]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[Lamont_Cranston]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[Lamont_Cranston]

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

1688

[populartajo]

Steph was Queen Elizabeth II who never posted in the thread.

Ive played some games with Steph before. He once tricked me very well when he was scum. In LAL he was town and I tricked him as well.

hohum, understanding that no one here knows what effect the mysterious liquid is going to have, would you be willing to conduct a vote and then force the drink onto whomever's voted for?

This is a slightly protown proposition.

I say give it to Lamont. He's been posting a lot and seems to want to control the game, so it'll be good to throw a wrench into things to try and determine if he's town or if he has scumbuddies.

This last quote feels off. It seems to imply that Lammont posting a lot and wanting to control the game is a bad thing.

For the record, I personally am not even going to guess if the drink is good or bad. Who knows? I am more interested in the overall goal of lynching intelligently.

I like this stance.

iso 4-6 are a really interesting Lammont hate. This posterior explanation is weak. How the drink could have facilitated to know whether Lammont was town or scum?. My paranoid senses make me think of a steph that knew what the drink did.

Because, given his playstyle, I think it will be helpful to know whether he's town or scum, and the drink may facilitate that, or perhaps facilitate other scumhunting opportunities.

Conversely, I think not wanting anyone to drink the drink is anti-town

Not at all.

Sure, why not. I vote for Lamont. To restate: I believe using it on a player like him is a good idea because it will hopefully make it obvious whether or not he's town aligned, letting us use his enthusiasm for good or letting us get rid of him if he's scum, and make overall scumhunting easier as well.

More of this defense. I dont like it. This Lammont-Steph relation feels kinda forced.

iso 25 through iso 30 are blatant active lurking.

iso 33 is again more fixation with Lammont. The reason : the devil smiley. WTF? Yes, this relation is forced, like Steph really wants Lammont to be lynched.

For the record, the small paper box I picked up doesn't seem to be doing anything

Why did you pick the word "seem"? Can you tell us what did the mod pmed you when he gave you the small paper box?

I was really just kidding about the box. I didn't expect it to be a "real" item, just figured it was worth a try.

Why did you think it was okay to lead people on that you had the box?

I was trying to make a joke. I'm sorry if it failed miserably.

Oh so it was a joke. Bad joke. And scummy.

His interchange with Replacement and Setael (iso 48-49 / iso 60 respectively) is kinda decent. I like the tone of his defense.

iso 61 is once again the push of his ridiculous devil smiley argument.

So we're supposed to take Lamont's word on things now that he suddenly claims he's receiving mod PMs and putting "AARGGH" at the end of every post...when he just so happens to be the leading lynch candidate approaching deadline?

more lammont hate. At this point he is so tunneled on him its not even funny. I dont have any ideas what does he think of other players.

I will support the Naomi wagon because of her misrepresentations of me in 938 and 942, her last two posts...just remember the above when Lamont stays alive because of this play.
Unvote
Vote: Naomi_Saotome

Finally. His reasons are meh but deadline may have influenced him.

iso 69 and posterior "Naomi is lying" posts dont feel forced. Shows efforts of scumhunting. He posteriorly believes Amished claim and tries to find a way to win the game.

iso 80 through iso 82 are blatant active lurking.

I think Devestation needs to die based on his shift in thinking. I spent a lot of time yesterday attacking Naomi's claim...and yet I was still on Devestation's list of suspects...now all of a sudden Devestation's giving credit to Lamont for outing Naomi's supposed scumminess, even though in my opinion Lamont hasn't hit Naomi nearly as hard as I was yesterday.

This suddent Dev hate tingled my scumdar. It feels off.

It's also worth noting that Devestation never responded to my original statement I posted above.

Weird you pointed this days ago.

I believe Setael and Naomi to be town, and Devestation and Lamont to be scum.

Hey what happened here? Why do you think Naomi is town now?

Why has Stepho dropped off everyone's radar after getting wagoned nicely D1?

Let's answer that later. For now, let's discuss why in the world you want to make a decision about lynching when we don't even know what the vig will reveal.

Scummy.

Were you watching when I attacked the hell out of Naomi yesterday? I know exactly what seemed off about her case, but I posts from both her and the mod since then, plus the lack of a counterclaim with Amished available to protect (I believe his claim), makes me pretty sure that Naomi's claim is legit.

This sudden change of mind doesnt feel right.

Conclusion

Meh, I really hate some parts of Steph, his active lurking and his lack of suspicions until day 1 but there are some gutty reads that make me think he is just a dense townie. I dont see scum pushing the devil thing as hard as he did and even when he got all that negative attention. Paranoid me makes me think that Alabaska was right and he could be a lyncher with Lammont as a target. His sudden change of mind regarding naomi and his sudden hate of dev are some points that need clarification. Also, if dev is scum, then steph is prob his scumparnter.

[Lamont_Cranston]

I think you make some valid points about

false cases that would originate from scum

.

[Devestation]

If the Stepho wagons bothers you so much why are you on it?


Brief Analysis Time.

ZazieR is town. The person he replaced was just inactive, but ZazieR has definently tried to make amends.

Lamont is somewhere between the two. He appears to be "leading" the game, but that does not clear him. I am quite suprised that he survived night one, because he has so much initiative.

Stepho is making ridiculous assumptions, if he is town he is as lazy as I am.

Tajo is town, discussion not nessecary.

Not sure on Pyro... can we really afford to extend the deadline?

Setael is scum, you should have figured that out and acted on it by now.

*is all he can see on this page*

[Setael]

Please share your reasons for saying I'm scum. I don't really see where you gave a reason to want to vig me in the first place.

[zwetschenwasser]

YES OF COURSE SETAEL AND NAOMI ARE SCUM!!! I can't believe that they're still manipulating all of you with smooth talk.