Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)
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Aj The Epic
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Yes I have, at least twice.In post 175, Transcend wrote:Played with Titus before?-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Yeah this wagon ain't suspicious as shit. Haven't posted in 20 pages due to RL stuff and y'all just randomly throw down now.
I was hoping y'all would settle down and start that style because the rate at which you all play is too fast for me. Walls are nice.In post 419, Alisae wrote:
To me it seem like townies would get annoyed at wall posts.In post 418, xSoniaNevermindx wrote:
Why does that filler make you tr TranscendIn post 416, Alisae wrote:Ez Sonia. 2 reasons.
A. It's something that Tywin needs to understand as a player.
B. It helps me townread Transcend.
So I understand the frustration of dealing with Titus. It's incredibly annoying and most the time you just accept that there's no reasoning to be had.In post 431, Tywin Lannister wrote:
Why would I care if she's interacting with you? You could be her scum buddy. Titus is calling me scum, not you. So in calling me scum, she needs to ask me questions, not you. And now that you chainsaw HARD for Titus, I question if maybe you two are buddies. It surely isn't a townie move to not let her answer her own questions, let alone letting the focus go off of her.In post 426, Alisae wrote:
The reason here Titus is interacting with me. Titus is evaulating me as scum. Titus is scum hunting. Titus is doing town things. Thus she gets my read as town.In post 423, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:The reason she gives for her intial SR on you, Titus, looks bad. She said you haven't been evaluating the game I think, but the shift to a TR looks like it could be defensive.
That being said, asking for a PR to intervene after a lynch, throwing shade at someone for 'buddying' as a way to deter action and really just not committing to full on calling them scum when you're 90% the way there is all pretty terrible.
In post 548, mozamis wrote:Sorry, last post for a bit. And while I'm here, Coludkicker town? Frustratingly opaque posting style, but seemed spontaneous...
UNVOTE
Right, moz out.
I get the feeling you're someone who's salty as hell over past events. You literally went after my slot over the grounds the vote that was stolen was yours.In post 581, Transcend wrote:
There's also this gemIn post 174, Aj The Epic wrote:Yeah Transcend nice try grudge matching.
However, now that my only game with him is over, i did mislynch him in it. However he subbed into a bad slot. That or i ate Vifam's ass a bit too hard. Maybe a combo of both.
Regardless, this post is the worst of his entire "wtf" iso.
I'm not defending Lester, it's literally post 19. I was making a comment about his style.In post 583, Titus wrote:In post 19, Aj The Epic wrote:Lapsa confirmed jesterIn post 108, Aj The Epic wrote:Hello Titus.
VOTE: Elbrin
Regardless of time of game, if you're going to be serious and call someone town, have a reason.In post 174, Aj The Epic wrote:Yeah Transcend nice try grudge matching.
This is the entirety of AJ's ISO.In post 194, Aj The Epic wrote:
Yes I have, at least twice.In post 175, Transcend wrote:Played with Titus before?
He's defending Lapsa as a jester.
He's chainsawing you on behalf of Uzi and attacking reasonless posting. He has zero followthrough on my mock of him for that. Why does he pick your naked vote in particular? He also insists all votes need reasoning and follows up with zero.
Picks a fight with obvtown Transcend.
Makes a meta comment.
There's no sorting or attempt to here.
I'm not chainsawing on the behalf of Uzi, and even if we were buddies why the fuck would I defend someone who had like one vote on them?
My inactivity can be chalked up to the fact that I have other things to do and you all have thrown in like 20 pages for me to catch up on.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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So you moved the goal posts from Uzi to lapsa now.In post 645, Titus wrote:
I'd say this post is highly relevant as well, given Lapsa was taking heat (rightfully so) for his push on Cabd.In post 19, Aj The Epic wrote:Lapsa confirmed jester
I do not lynch for "information" unless forced to do so.
We have three posts. 1 defending scum. 1 trying to start drama with Transcend. 1 opportunistic vote on Elbrin trying to get Elbrin to hang himself that just happens to counter Lapsa.
And yes, I do think Transcend is doing his own thing.
Edit: And so the four man scum team is now me, Lapsa, Uzi, Tyrone. Cute.-
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This is based off titus saying I a.) chainsawed for Uzi, b.) defended Lapsa and c.) bussed tyrone. Only way it can work is if I'm scum with all four.In post 652, Cabd wrote:Any reason we're assuming 4 man scumteam here?-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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First... I'm not sure I agree with you saying you didn't like my posts, because that doesn't explain your read changing.In post 659, Alisae wrote:Valid question. I'm comfortable with it because I don't like your posts.
Like for example the one where you vote Elbrin. You're implying that he had stated no reason for his townreads at all. But at that point he stated his reasons for why he thought 2 out of 3 people were town, the last person I knew it was gut because of his meta.
And I don't get why you would want to encourage wall posts? The problem with them is that they lack a consice arguement that you could easily grab. They fail to convey the point to the reader. I like arguements that are easy to grab and understand.
So there's two issues I had with Elbrin: his reasons were generic, which is why I stated there were none. Second, it felt incredibly forced to come out with that many town reads so early. Yes the adage is that town town read more than scum but it was irrelevant and unnecessary and honestly none of the reads felt controversial at that point.
Walls don't have to be devoid of content but they imply that at least we're slowing the pace to respond in a point-by-point style. I'm historically awful at fast games, so it's always in my best interest to pray the game starts to elongate posts, as that's the happy median between slow and still full of information.
With Transcend:
I think it's NA. I felt like he was after me more for a comment I made in the last game than anything else.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Give me a moment. I really haven't noticed gamma's posts here.In post 657, Cabd wrote:AJ what is your read on Gamma?-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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If it contains proper punctuation, I'll read it.In post 674, xSoniaNevermindx wrote:This is gonna be another one of these games where I post logic and it gets ignored isn't it?
Yeah feels like it
So gamma doesn't really have much to read into and it's kinda understandable how I missed it re-reading. Ignoring fluff posts, Gamma's posts have largely been 1 line questions:
In post 135, Gamma Emerald wrote:How is Lapsa townIn post 138, Gamma Emerald wrote:Serious explanation plz.
(not in chronological order).In post 122, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why do you not follow your accusation with a vote?
The first is understandable. It's referring to a vote on himself. The second two refer to Cloud's call on Lapsa for town.
Lapsa is someone he voted for in RVS, but did call scummy. His vote on cloud is pretty trivial (calling CK's taunt to someone a scumclaim).
The thing is, there's still not enough here to make a read on. His actions show a lack of analysis, but not necessarily a lack of conviction to reads.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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I don't play with you often enough to know this. If I had to guess it's because Gamma's interests begin and end with asking questions where I'm more accusatory.In post 702, Cabd wrote:The reason I ask AJ is that in my reads list I have you above Gamma. Why do you think that is, based upon what had been posted by both you and him up to that point?-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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(assuming this is directed towards me) And you could answer that because the last time you played with me, I was scum. It was the tarot mafia game that I almost gambitted a win from.Cabd wrote:We're mostly talking about people from the mafiascum retirement home. You can ignore those parts.
The parts that are relevant: "Does a member of the scum team; knowing there is/isn't a traitor, talk about the scum team in fixed number terms?"
Unlike some moderators, Cephrir does not state faction sizes in his opening.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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I'm seeing Alisae as scum. Not necessarily as hard as Tywin, but just off memory
-She goes and changes her views from Null to Super Scum on me without me posting
-Goes from Town reading gamma to voting him, basically not posting
-Is voting Nero largely off of protecting Titus.
It's really her hoping and praying Titus townreads her at some point because Titus has been setting herself up as a townleader.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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No, I think Titus is taking the position of power. Ergo controls the vote largely to anyone sheeping. Regardless of alignment of Titus, Alisae is hoping to get Titus to townread her (through theatrics as scum buddies or just Titus somehow deciding that Alisae ISN'T scummy as hell).
I can't read Titus. I think you two have a history if I'm not mistaken but I've come to realize you more or less do other things when Titus is in the game and try to be productive until Titus proves her alignment.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Because she's also playing like she plays as town the last time I was on site. If I recall, Nero, you were in that debacle too were Titus replaced in, took over and mislynched like 3x in a row. I would imagine that unless someone like Nacho or Mollie or a more dominant town-leader type is in the game, this is always her style.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Her current scum team still includes me for some asinine reason she's basically pulling from thin air. The reason I don't contest it is because I've come to expect this from TitusIn post 939, Alisae wrote:
What do you think she is wrong about?In post 931, Aj The Epic wrote:Titus is 100% wrong, but I remain wholly unconvinced on her being scum.-
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You and Tywin scum. I think Sonia's probably town, as might be Elbrin. Gamma needs to do something before the inevitable heat death of our universe.In post 943, Alisae wrote:AJ, humor me for a bit will ya. I don't remember you posting your reads. Would you like to post your reads?
I don't commit to having many reads early on, especially in a town pile.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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"Can't get a good read" isn't true. I'm just a paranoid player and therefore don't like to have a townlist I don't trust.Tywin Lannister wrote:AJ picks the easiest players to call scum here. That's not a real analysis. He simply went with the two players most won't disagree with in a way that requires explaining. AJ hasn't done anything all game as far as I've seen, unless I missed something between the last 12 pages (will catch up soon regardless). The guy is skating by and is half-hearting these bs reads.
AJ: why am I scum? Why is Alisae scum? Why do you have two scum reads, but can't seem to get reads on more than half the game? Please explain all the reads you half heartedly slapped together.
I've discussed Alisae and you for scum. Until you respond there, I'm of no need to do your busy work. You either read it or you don't.
Furthermore it's completely on you not to be an 'easy target', aka someone who can be easily scum read. Alisae isn't necessarily that either, as certainly there's not exactly popularity for her lynch before I started discussing it. One vote on, from Nos in RVS. At peak, 3 votes on.
P-edit: Gamma's more suspect for what he HAS said, those 2 just haven't said much.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Except this is not even near the reason I've called you scum. If you're going to complain, at least make the attempt to do something first.In post 960, Tywin Lannister wrote:I just don't see much of a point to be active and read everything only to have to defend myself against illogical non-reasons. The only thing I've ever seen from anyone to call me scum is from one post where I said 'it's only fair' that Uzi answer Elibirn's question. That apparently was the scum tell of the century for these people, because they don't have a clue as to what scummy is or isn't. It's a joke. There's no defending against idiocy, and I can't change the minds of those who are either scum or just ignorant, so there's nothing to really be invested about in this game for me.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Alisae and Kyouko need to be revisited. That should be the next course of action. So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing, so I think bouncing onward for now is worth while. Both Kyouko and Alisae have been suspect in the last few pages for various reasons and out of the list of people available to be looked into, these two make the most sense for scum.-
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On day 1, being able to quickly cycle through not only the baseline of suspicious people, but the people who have made votes that were suspicious, is a great plus. My general theory of the game is that town can never be more powerful than D2/N3/D3 so getting this much positive information day 1 to have actually formed a town core that we can be reasonably confident in is a win in and of itself.In post 1351, Cabd wrote:
?In post 1349, Aj The Epic wrote:So far, I've been happy with how this day is progressing-
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In post 1361, Cabd wrote:Defined as?
You, Elbrin, Myself, titus. We can basically assume Tran's replacement for town, so given a reasonable player is put there, they'll be capable of fulfilling this too. I'm working on Nero, who I believe is capable, but I don't have a townread on yet.
Basically a group of players capable of driving this game in a positive direction going forward. If town only has one head, they'll be picked off and the town has to reorganize each day. That's why it's really important to have multiple heads capable of making good decisions. And the democratic process of finding if one is lying is basically that they're also the center of attention and the ones who have to be right constantly to avoid scrutiny.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Win the game before lylo, lynch last scum, endgamed with town.
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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I personally think Alisae is a fine wagon to be on right now.
If we're speaking of wagons, I'd like the pool for today to be:
Alisae, kyouko and Sonia. I'd consider Gamma, but that's lower on my list of priorities.
Uzi, Pine, mozamis, Nos need to get active. mozamis has been trying, so props for that, but I need more to get a good read.
Right now, we should run the assumption on Tywin as town and even if you don't agree with that, his wagon today gives us nothing because he's alienated himself and invited himself as an easy target. Transcend's slot should be recognized as town until further notice. I wouldn't want to lynch cabd/titus/elbrin without a much stronger case than has existed already and honestly think at least two are going to be town. As for Nero, this is something I know he does whenever he sees titus. FWIW, he needs to stop focusing on Titus and do something else.
Can we not go for 'proposed scum teams' day 1? Every suggested team thus far looks like garbage.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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See, this is something that doesn't work yet because only someone who's REALLY good at meta is able to put together perspective teams this early on. Someone who can say "i'd expect gamma!scum to bus a partner early" or "I'd expect gamma!scum to make no attempts to talk to their partner" is the only one able to do it d1 because there's so many different ways a person can interact with scummates.-
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Kyouko is more concerned about drafting his fantasy scum team than he is about actually hunting. Throws out the traitor card with no real reason. Suspecting a traitor isn't even NAI, because scum can be trying to signal each other that way if one exists. But needless to say, it's also fucking pointless to suspect that in D1. His potential scum team is at this point like 7 long but he's gone through variations that suggest he suspects and has more than half the playerlist as acceptable lynches.
That's from 1536.Lapsa Tywin and AJ scum, Alisae Traitor or on other scumteam in multiball, leaning Traitor.
1585, referring 'his' as lapsa.If he is a traitor though would it not be interesting if he had used his 561 as another crumb? Look at the bolded. If it's 4 scum, 3+ a traitor, the scumteam might notice this reads list and see themselves as 2 easy mislynches alongside the traitor, plus the last of the scum team being hidden inside the 3 below where there is "perhaps bus on 1". This would be traitor!Lapsa + AJ +Tywin + 1 of [Alisae, Uzi, Gamma] as the scumteam.
Suuuuure. Just recall uzi and sonia don't post much between this and him claiming they're part of a scum team.In post 1171, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
They aren't bothering me aside from not voting. I haven't looked very closely at Sonia yet though so I think I'll do that now. LUV is the lurkier of the two I feel. Also forgot to post that Cloud is also currently not voting in that unofficial VC.In post 1159, Alisae wrote:Kyouko, thoughts on Sonia and Uzi?
Also throws out multiball as a possible theory.
More importantly, Kyouko explains away some bad votes with "I was sheeping", specifically why he was on my wagon.-
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And anyways, Alisae/Uzi/someone else is the traitor according to SSBMAlisae wrote:
And you aren't joining the wagon yet because?In post 1862, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
762 is a traitor crumb for his scumteam, according to him.In post 1856, Syryana wrote:Also can some tell me in 15 words or less why Lapsa is a thing
^11 words
Also if Sami isn't your '#1 Adv Wars CEO' you just have never faced the menace that is the Eagle/Sami tag team.-
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Had I seen something worth responding to, I would've. It did little to change my opinion.In post 1917, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Just gonna save the Alisae stuff for later (in a draft) I'm getting heated over this SK discussion and that's not very good for my health atm.
Town - Titus, Elbirn
Townlean - Cloud, Syryana, Cabd, Nero Cain
----D1 Lynch Line----
Nulltown -Gamma, Pine, Nosferatus, mozamis, Tywin
Nullscum - Sonia, Aj
Scumlean - LUV
Scum - Alisae, Lapsa
Tywin could drop again real quick depending on how he continues. Aj could rise pretty quick depending on if/how he ever comments on my comments on his case on me. Sonia is admittedly lowered by preflip associations. Gamma keeps coloring me red in his VCAs but I think his heart is in the right place. LUV has not responded adequately to direct questioning so he's still down there, andhis vote is positioned well on the Lapsa wagon to be a bus.-
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In post 2007, Tywin Lannister wrote:Honestly? I'm starting to think Lapsa/AJ/Nosferatu just off their early exchange with Cabd and knowing there's day talk.In post 1993, Tywin Lannister wrote:In post 1991, Alisae wrote:
Edited. 4am. Need to sleep, probably am not going to sleep anyways.In post 1990, Tywin Lannister wrote:In post 1988, Gamma Emerald wrote:wat
watIn post 1987, Alisae wrote:Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily withLapsaor not?I honestly haven't and won't look for scum pairings this early. Without a flip of one of them, there's really no point. It's one of the major gripes I had/have with Titus. It's just pointless to look for pairs and tunnel the game into theories that make no sense.That's why I believe she even put you as the 'SK' on D1, because you don't fit well in her scum pairing theory. Kyouko running with it kind of also points out why pairing anyone on D1 doesn't work. I've always thought it best to find one scum first, at least in large games like this. Find the first one before worrying about more.
Do you have any specific connections between Lapsa/Kyouko though? That's worth looking into regardless, but if it's just Kyouko not voting Lapsa, I don't see a problem with it right now.-
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Yeah was about to say a shot on Uzi by scum made no sense.
Nevertheless if it's a traitor kill by scum, scum had to have a reason to want to kill Cloud... Normally, he was on to something. It'd be rather ironic if his reads were good enough to draw the scumkill as a traitor, but I'm willing to assume that might just be what happened.-
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Well we got double town flip out of this.In post 148, CloudKicker wrote:sonia titus elbirn pine are all looking bad atm, i like uzi, lap and another guy i forgot
The thing is, I don't think CK plays a lot of OMGUS into his scum game. He constantly made a case for Alisae not being scum, points double town out of our flips etc etc. I'm wanting to lynch through his scumreads and see what pops up.
I'm about to say he was buddying Sonia to let her know he was the traitor and that he DID know (I've never seen a traitor that doesn't). In fact, some of his posts (Sonia townleading?!?! emote emote) seems sarcastic and really unneeded ambiguity that wasn't even that true in the context. (His post 668 for context).
I don't know if I'm good enough to see what triggered his death. He SRs SSBM, Seems to flip to SR Alisae, interacts weirdly with Sonia (buddying), is actually interested in Nero. Flips Lapsa once traitor is noted, which in THEORY should be when we find his crumb.
And... here it is:
VOTE: KyoukoIn post 1872, CloudKicker wrote:Kyouko youre really underestimating what a traitor would to to indicates hes the traitor to their scumteam
I think CK was hinting through him and maybe Sonia, but more sure of him.
P;edit: I'm cooking so my responses are disjointed and late.-
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Having played with players in the past who could 100% read me, I don't really buy this. Had a friend who used to play mafia a lot with me who'd be able to pick me as scum/town by D3 (I could do the same back so it was a bit of WIFOM city). Among friends offsite it was known that if one of us died, the other was always suspect because of that. CK claims to be able to read you, CK dies. It's not the most thorough case, but it's a mark against you regardless of liking it or not.In post 2194, xSoniaNevermindx wrote:Okay I'm calmed down a little bit.
Let me try again.
You think I'm scum because I'm the only one where the cloud nk makes sense when I don't think NKA makes much sense
he could've been a pr kill
he could've been random
he could've been because he was tr by a lot of people
there's a lot of reasons-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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Like this is one of the few situations where I think NKA is actually pertinent...
Sonia, how good are you and CK at reading each other, with like a % approximation both ways, and how many days does that take to be sure?
We cannot really overlook that if Alisae is telling the truth (which is seems likely) this is seriously one of the weirdest kills to make even regardless of CK's alignment. He WASN'T the bona fide most town needed to be eliminated person, he was kinda fledgling middle. Cabd was my guess for dying tonight, that or Syrn's slot (which I guess is rightfully getting some suspicion) and Elbrin next if they were uncomfortable with going after the first set. THEN CK/Myself/Titus would've/should've been in contention, some 4-6 shots down. And Alisae, with claimed killing power. There's a reason CK died and I didn't see any PR crumbing other than traitor, so I'm guessing it's on reads.-
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Aj The Epic Mafia Scum
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