Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Alisae]

In hindsight,

MAYBE

you could argue that Titus was voting Lapsa b/c she thought it was scummy that Lapsa didn't like masons/the fake mason claim but it still seems skin deep and opportunistic. Both Elbrin and Alisae votes were blank sheep votes. Ali later claimed that she voted Lapsa b/c he seemed anti-town. I really don't feel like my Titus vote was bad as I didn't like any of them.

If Lapsa flips town how would it change your reads on those 3 slots?

I think Ali is scum regardless of Lapsa's alignment. I think Titus is town regardless. Elbirn was wagoned by quite a few SRs so I think he's town regardless.

So me being SK is potentially a bunch of bullshit to you?

Yeah, the SK talk feels like read dodging from ssbm.

Do you think it's read dodging coming from Titus?

She's not the one mentioning it over and over, so no.

Really? I thought she was the person that brought the idea forward in the first place.

[Gamma Emerald]

Read my last post for a more thorough assessment.

[Alisae]

Yeah you sniped me.
Swiper no swiping

[Lil Uzi Vert]

And I wake up to more SK talk.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

In hindsight,

MAYBE

you could argue that Titus was voting Lapsa b/c she thought it was scummy that Lapsa didn't like masons/the fake mason claim but it still seems skin deep and opportunistic. Both Elbrin and Alisae votes were blank sheep votes. Ali later claimed that she voted Lapsa b/c he seemed anti-town. I really don't feel like my Titus vote was bad as I didn't like any of them.

If Lapsa flips town how would it change your reads on those 3 slots?

I think Ali is scum regardless of Lapsa's alignment. I think Titus is town regardless. Elbirn was wagoned by quite a few SRs so I think he's town regardless.

So me being SK is potentially a bunch of bullshit to you?

Yeah, the SK talk feels like read dodging from ssbm.

Hey are you ignoring my posts on purpose?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not ignoring your posts they just do nothing to resolve the issue.

[Alisae]

BTW Gamma, I think you're town now. Nice to have ya on the side of the townies.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

[Tywin Lannister]

Ok, I'm caught up for the most part. I skimmed here and there, but it took an hour and a half to go from page 50ish to 80, so I feel like everyone skims in this game.

A couple people moved up/down my reads list, and for different reasons.

Scummiest players: Nosferatu, Lapsa, Lil Uzi, ssbm_kyouko

Nosferatu: lurking badly, yet only a couple of players have even mentioned Nosferatu all game. Scum lurkers tend to not be called out on D1, since obviously town forget they exist, and scum don't want to draw attention to it. It's 80 pages though. Lurking at this point is beyond ridiculous. I caught up 30 pages and haven't seen a Nosferatu post for ages. I honestly can't remember one, but they've never been prodded. This is a player that needs to be on people's radar.

Lapsa: I don't like the flip flopping, the lack of honest content, or the general feel I get from them. Lapsa could be just sarcastic town, but I can't name a time that he's ever truly tried sorting anyone. He called me 'Not touching: town' as Cloud pointed out, but voted me when my wagon looked a sure thing. He never gave a reason for it either, which I don't like.

Lil Uzi: General vibe I get from them, but I don't see Uzi as truly attempting to find scum. He's largely sheeped other opinions until very recently, and it just feels like the classic 'trying to skate by unnoticed' scum play rather than anything sinister. It's not a great case by any means, but I find him scummier due to that than I do Alisae. I see them as largely the same player, but Alisae I know is new. Lil Uzi isn't, so there's less excuses there. Aside from that, nobody has legitimately called him into question the way they have with Alisae, saying she's an SK or Traitor or Survivor... A lot of bad claims for D1. They never tried this with Uzi, and I don't really know why.

Ssbm_kyouko: I flip back and forth with him... His play doesn't seem the same as what I know townie ssbm does. His conclusions and reads seem off as well. The thing that flips me is that he genuinely seems to be trying. I don't agree with his theories or conclusions, but he's at least giving them. That's far more than I can say about the above three players.

D1 lynches are a crapshoot, but I'm okay with a Lapsa lynch. I'm also ignoring Titus here (I still think she's scum) for reasons. It derailed the thread too much, so I'll let it get sorted another day phase. I don't like the Titus/ssbm 3rd party talk about Alisae though. Town shouldn't be worried or care to sort a 3rd party on D1. We don't know if there is one or not. Scum would want to find a traitor, but why mention SK? If you need an SK for your l D1 theory to work, perhaps you shouldn't have a theory and just lynch scum 1 at a time.

[Alisae]

Tywin read on me?

And I assume you like the Lapsa wagon? Why don't you have a seat or intent to hammer (assuming Elbrin takes the L-1 seat)?

[Tywin Lannister]

Tywin read on me?

And I assume you like the Lapsa wagon? Why don't you have a seat or intent to hammer (assuming Elbrin takes the L-1 seat)?

If closer to deadline, I'll give intent. I don't have intent right now though. There's no reason to end the day yet.

Idk about you, but you've gotten more flak than Uzi has, which is what doesn't sit well with me. Uzi has largely been ignored or placed in 'null' reads by my SRs, while you've been talked over as an SK, traitor, survivor, etc. It seems really off to me. Nobody talks about SKs prior to D2. That's just weird. Without multiple NKs, why would anyone assume it at all? It's day 1. I just don't like it. I view you and Uzi as largely the same player so far, yet Uzi gets a pass?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Lil Uzi: General vibe I get from them, but I don't see Uzi as truly attempting to find scum. He's largely sheeped other opinions until very recently, and it just feels like the classic 'trying to skate by unnoticed' scum play rather than anything sinister. It's not a great case by any means, but I find him scummier due to that than I do Alisae. I see them as largely the same player, but Alisae I know is new. Lil Uzi isn't, so there's less excuses there. Aside from that, nobody has legitimately called him into question the way they have with Alisae, saying she's an SK or Traitor or Survivor... A lot of bad claims for D1. They never tried this with Uzi, and I don't really know why.

I've tried that with Uzi, it's in this spoiler, you might've missed it while skimming. Also you're probably not dropping down my reads list anytime soon, more likely to go up from past couple posts.

Spoiler:

I mean it got blown up in a melodramatic mess but I most definitely asked you what was up with your voting for me

The answer to which is still trash

No, you demanded I impress you and explain to everyone why I'm still voting for you. Then you fake claimed Gladiator.

We are saying the same thing.

Kek. Decided to read LUV/Elbirn in ISO real quick to check up on Elbirn's progression here and found this really funny

Okay, re-read Titus' ISO. Tl;dr is I'm okay with lynching either of these fucks.
VOTE: Twyin

Why do I think Titus is town?
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think she isn't currently I'm going through her ISO and she could be seen as scummy, except she started interacting with me. And I thought her theories are genuine and stuff. Ya know, I really thought she was doing town things. So I defended my townreads hardly. But now that a lot of people think that Titus is scum, I might as well stop my conf bias and look through her. Turns out, no actual analysis. Besides on Tywin. Only real person I feel like she's gone after. Quite frankly it seems like she wants other people to do things for her in 768

Now why is my vote on Tywin?
I think Tywin and Titus got into a Scum v Scum fight. But right now Tywin is acting anti-town. He quite frankly hasn't responded to any of the posts that I wanted him to respond to. He's just twisting what people are saying and calling them out on that. And Tywin, go keep your ego in check. 429. No one ever catches scum 100% of the time unless they know who scum are because they are scum themselves and they really wanna bus their scummates.

@LUV - Can you elaborate on this gif in words so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way, or specify what things are pinging you? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

I'm not even sure what to do right now. Feels like the game is going nowhere. I'm not sure if it's because the same couple of voices are on every page or my lack of interest. Just going to keep it all the way real about the major shit that has gone on and say what I've been thinking

___

Alisae feels town and it has nothing to do with the crush thing I got going on. Wanting to be liked is NAI. Town generally want to be liked just as much as scum because they want their opinions and thoughts heard and taken seriously just as much scum want to blend in and deceive town into thinking their town. She's interested, engaged, and wants to sort, just doesn't effectively know how to and that's okay. The questions she's been asking read like town as well as someone new to the game because there questions you can tell haven't been seriously thought about because a majority of them don't and/or didn't help in any major in figuring out alignment and aren't ones that show any signs of scum intent. She also asks questions at a rate so frequent I don't think can come from scum when it's so easy to not give a damn and watch town self destruct with the way the game is going.

Lapsa feels town. Solely for that wagon alone.

The Titus and Ty debate is quite dumb when you get down to it really. Especially if you take away the misrepresentation about the Gladiator claim which I personally I thought how that misunderstanding occurred was explained pretty well in 752. Don't care if he lied or not at this point.

Titus didn't like Ty's answer regarding not wanting to lynch me because she felt giving me the benefit of doubt at the time was scummy. Rather than just try to get everyone to agree with that point about Ty, we get a lengthy heated back and forth that's a pain to reread which is why my take on this is mainly based on her case presented in 628. This is the only reason I've found to TR Titus, as scum she could've easily try to sell that point without drawing so much attention to herself as she did but instead she argued with her SR in a matter that definitely doesn't make me feel we have scum pushing on town or scum theatre. Ty's frustration is genuine as hell. That's really it to that TR from me. I just don't see scum getting that upset when he wasn't even in a caught for a wrong reason situation there, just accused of misrepresentation.

Transcend slot is probably town but is going to remain null for me for now. That replace out though was the most town like replace out I've ever seen.
___

So yeah, I don't know who scum is but I definitely feel like I can identify town more effectively than usual this game. I'm just a bit frustrated by all the noise and maybe it's my fault for having a life outside of this site and not trying to break it up sooner. The above should answer your 1503 Kyouko.

@LUV -

Can you elaborate on this gif in words

so I can tell if you're reacting to Alisae's case on Tywin, Titus, both, her assessment of them being SvS engaged in theatre, or any combination of the above? Or are you just trying to get on her good side the way you have been since when you called her "alluring?"

VOTE: Alisae

Can't act like you want to buddy Titus and then trash her.

Any other thoughts you'd like to share with the class?

What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?

@Kyouko:

I read some things that ping and/or worry me a bit but nothing too strong. I think I'm just going to continue to town hunt.

EBWOP

Could you

elaborate on some of your stronger reads either way

, or

specify what things are pinging you

? You're being vague, not naming names and keeping options open. This can be used by scum to blend in when they finally choose where to vote and to dodge VCA.

I feel like a lot of 1503 got ignored in that response. That seems like a very basic explanation of your strongest read which seems to be Tywin, but it's also a reason that's been taken from someone else who originally pointed out that Tywin's frustration seems genuinely town. Do you have any other reads that you could provide your own reasons for? You're starting to look like you're intentionally blending in. What things did you read that pinged/and or worried you? Again, you responded to it so clearly it was significant enough to you to warrant a reaction: "What do you think Aj's motivation is here when he votes Alisae? What's your impression of his play so far?" Can you explain what that gif of James was all about?

I'm just taking notes and trying to make sense of it all man. This is a big game so I'm taking more caution that I usually do.

My strongest TR is actually Alisae, not Ty. I thought my reasoning for why she feels town explained the James gif well but if it didn't, that gif was just a way of expressing how I felt since at one point, I was doubting my read on her until I saw that post and did another reread. The post about things that have pinged me I believe was in regards to Cloud and Pine's play so far which I touched on a bit before.

As for AJ, I responded to him voting for Alisae because of the way he sort of just just popped up of nowhere voting for her so I wanted to know if he had any other thoughts on the game at the time. My guess for the motivation is as good as yours honestly but I feel like a lot of the early wagoning on him was mainly because people weren't familiar with his personality. Other than that, I'm not really getting any idea of his alignment from his posts but I'm sure I'll be able to get more of a concrete read on him as time goes on.

Just gonna save the Alisae stuff for later (in a draft) I'm getting heated over this SK discussion and that's not very good for my health atm.

Town - Titus, Elbirn
Townlean - Cloud, Syryana, Cabd, Nero Cain

----D1 Lynch Line----

Nulltown -Gamma, Pine, Nosferatus, mozamis, Tywin
Nullscum - Sonia, Aj
Scumlean - LUV
Scum - Alisae, Lapsa

Tywin could drop again real quick depending on how he continues. Aj could rise pretty quick depending on if/how he ever comments on my comments on his case on me. Sonia is admittedly lowered by preflip associations. Gamma keeps coloring me red in his VCAs but I think his heart is in the right place. LUV has not responded adequately to direct questioning so he's still down there, and

his vote is positioned well on the Lapsa wagon to be a bus

.

[Alisae]

Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily with Kyouko or not?

[Gamma Emerald]

wat

[Tywin Lannister]

So I like your reads list for the most part Kyouko, but why is Pine/Nosferatu in as null town? Have they said anything that would make you lean town, or is it just not knowing where to place them due to extreme lurking?

[Tywin Lannister]

wat

Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily with Kyouko or not?

wat

[Alisae]

wat

Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily with

Lapsa

or not?

wat

Edited. 4am. Need to sleep, probably am not going to sleep anyways.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Hey Ty! Good to have you back in the fray.

Could you give some examples of why you feel me and Alisae are basically the same player to you? I'm struggling to see how you reached that conclusion.

[Tywin Lannister]

wat

Tywin, do you feel as if Kyouko on a scum team specifcily with

Lapsa

or not?

wat

Edited. 4am. Need to sleep, probably am not going to sleep anyways.

I honestly haven't and won't look for scum pairings this early. Without a flip of one of them, there's really no point. It's one of the major gripes I had/have with Titus. It's just pointless to look for pairs and tunnel the game into theories that make no sense. That's why I believe she even put you as the 'SK' on D1, because you don't fit well in her scum pairing theory. Kyouko running with it kind of also points out why pairing anyone on D1 doesn't work. I've always thought it best to find one scum first, at least in large games like this. Find the first one before worrying about more.

Do you have any specific connections between Lapsa/Kyouko though? That's worth looking into regardless, but if it's just Kyouko not voting Lapsa, I don't see a problem with it right now.

[Alisae]

Do you have any specific connections between Lapsa/Kyouko though? That's worth looking into regardless, but if it's just Kyouko not voting Lapsa, I don't see a problem with it right now.

I remember me having a connection atleast. I'll revisit this once I get some sleep and see if I can find said connection.

[Tywin Lannister]

Hey Ty! Good to have you back in the fray.

Could you give some examples of why you feel me and Alisae are basically the same player to you? I'm struggling to see how you reached that conclusion.

It's a feeling, and I'm also lazy enough (plus sick) to not go back and find every post that struck the same cord for me, but it's mainly the lack of real conviction on anyone, the flip flopping on me, Titus, etc. You both generally seem to want to make everyone happy. It's not just an Alisae thing. There's more to it, but that's the basis of it. Alisae got called an SK/traitor/etc for wanting to please everyone, while you got called null/null town for doing much of the same IMO. I'm not sure why you've been given a pass here.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So I like your reads list for the most part Kyouko, but why is Pine/Nosferatu in as null town? Have they said anything that would make you lean town, or is it just not knowing where to place them due to extreme lurking?

Pine is a really weak read, mostly have them there because they were voting Lapsa early so it's like my sonia read, based on a preflip association with Lapsa. I've got a gut read on Nosferatus, could go up or down when they post, but I'm pretty sure they're town.

Also I'm voting Lapsa now, decided to let Alisae off for now but I'll be back to her another day probably.

@Gamma

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

pedit: LUVs been given more of a pass because he's more going with the flow than blatantly buddying so it isn't as noticeable. Not saying he hasn't been buddying a couple of players like Titus/Alisae but her buddying is just egregious

[Gamma Emerald]

plz hold

[Gamma Emerald]

What's the issue that you have then? Let's resolve it.

I want you to give a solid assessment of Alisae, all on your own.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The Alisae thing was an attempt at having in-thread mason like thing I saw someone once do with my own twist on it. What I'm doing with Titus is not buddying. I thought my post about VCA showed that.

I just told people to stop giving reads list when everyone wanted to suddenly do them. I'm not trying to please anyone.