Large Normal 199: L'Hôtel Pleuvoir (Fin)

[Alisae]

Yes I did.

[Alisae]

Last minute choice I switched from Tywin to Nos because I thought Tywin was trying to bait me into using a shot on him because he had a BP.

[Alisae]

Also I think I see why Cabd got shot.

[Alisae]

Besides the conf town part and good analysis.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So why do you think he got shot?

[Alisae]

So why do you think he got shot?

Try to frame it on me.
Try to lynch me.
Ya know, it's really satisfying to lynch the strongest threat to the scumteam, is it not?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

thing is, scum don't know if you're sk or vig. They'll eventually have to shoot you. Did you or Cabd say something that would indicate that you would try to shoot him? Are you talking about when he said that he and Titus would control your shots?

[Alisae]

None here.

Dear Santa, I want to vig the following people
Tywin
Kyouko
Cabd

This shows that I bluffed and considered Cabd as a shot (never really did but still)

[Pine]

VOTE: Tywin

[Alisae]

And Kyouko, it wouldn't matter if they thought I was SK or Vig. They know I am either one of those (The correct answer is Vig). So as long as I was lynched, they killed the strongest threat to their scum team. No?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Right, but town won't lynch you so why bother trying to frame you? I was just curious. I guess BP is a common SK role so I could see them wanting to lynch instead of NK.

[Alisae]

Right, but town won't lynch you so why bother trying to frame you?

Titus and Cabd we're trying to leash me, so if they kill one of the people who tried to leash me, they would hope that I shot town (In this case, probably Tywin) so that way they can call me a dirty liar and lynch me.

Which now that I think about it, may actually clear Tywin...
UNVOTE:

[Pine]

None of that makes any damn sense.

Tywin is still scum for the same reasons he always was. Cloudkicker went to the mat for him, and we have mod confirmation that he knew his scumbuddies. CK would not have put it all on the line for Town, it would have been antiwincon.

[Alisae]

Oh yeah Cloudie...Forgot about him to be honest...

Yeah I dunno, I'm conflicted. Maybe scum wanted me to shoot Tywin because he had a BP and he was scum so I would waste my shot on him and it would look like I shot Cabd instead? Maybe?
VOTE: Tywin Lannister

[ssbm_Kyouko]

More reasonable explanation:

Mozamis flipped mason. Scum assumed mozamis's buddy did not vote him. Scum tried to shoot the buddy last night.
Players not voting Mozamis at lynch include Cabd, Tywin, Sonia, and Nosferatu. We now know Nosferatu was scum, so we can cross her off of scum's list. Mozamis himself voted Tywin and Sonia, which would be enough reason not to shoot them. That leaves Cabd and Syryana/Gerryoat.

Elbirn's hammer appears to have been accidental but might have been a clever fake banking on the mod counting Nero's vote. He's seemed towny to me for most if not all of the game so I'm ruling it was an accident.
Assuming Elbirn's hammer was an accident that leaves Gerryoat(Syryana) and Elbirn as the likely mason partners. I suggest we don't lynch there for now because scum will feel pressured to hunt for the other mason with the NK. Mason should also not claim for now to save yourself to CC in case scum tries to claim mozamis buddy.

I could probably do Tywin today. Will look at Mozamis ISO and try to remember who pushed her. Gonna check VCs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ebwop: I could probably do Tywin today. Will look at

Nosferatu

ISO and try to remember who pushed her. gonna check VCs

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Unless you truly believe in two vigilantes, and ignore everything alisae's done this game, then she is pretty much confirmed SK. I think we all need to go by that as a rule of thumb first.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

Interesting one.
Complete knee jerk reaction: lynch. Get rid of unstable elemnts, might get rid of anti town, might get info.
Leasing sounds dicey. Think I was in a game once where it was attempted and backfired. And it derailed the thread I think.

You draw parallel between piegirl and alisae?

Leash or lynch almost always gives flashbacks. Given the strongblock we appear to have, mandating the vig shoot a particular slot and lynching any deviation that doesn't hit scum. No excuses. Whatever we decide, we stick with.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

I don't believe in leashing an sk. If someone isn't on the town faction then they need to die.

I don't believe in lynching town. If alisae is vig then leave her alive

Proposal: SK's are compulsive killers yeah? Just tell alisae not to kill anymore, or at least for one night phase. Proves she's not sk, confirmed town vig. Problem solved.

You've hammered a townie, NK'd a cop, and now tunnel another townie.

I mean

That first one was a trick, she had no way of knowing uzi was a vanilla cop, and regardless of whether she's town vig or 3p sk has no knowledge of your alignment

Blaming her for....any of that, really, doesn't make sense.


Sidenote: do you know the difference between cop and vanilla cop?

Regarding Vig/SK leashing

- Unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, Alisae is either SK or Vig. IMO, neither leashing nor killing the SK/Vig out of hand is pro-Town. SK/Vig is arguably the biggest threat to the scumteam, until late game. She shouldn't make it to endgame, but neither do we end her shots. That said, leashing SK/Vig does not work in my experience. Yes, it essentially gives us two lynches, but it also allows scum to influence a second NK. Vig/SK, regardless of their own alignment, is anti-scum, and will shoot for their scum suspects. In short, fire away, Alisae. Know that your choices will be judged, and if you start shooting obvTown, you'll get lynched right away.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

lynched. I remember in my first game on this site, we tried to leash suspected sk TSO, but it entirely blew up in our faces. I was indifferent to the matter then, but now I know there's no real reason to leash over lynch.

I'd really like to not relive that; reading to see if I acknowledge tywin's case on Alisae.

@everyone not named me: Should suspected but not proven to be Vig/SKs be leashed or instantly lynched?

lynched. I remember in my first game on this site, we tried to leash suspected sk TSO, but it entirely blew up in our faces. I was indifferent to the matter then, but now I know there's no real reason to leash over lynch.

I'd really like to not relive that; reading to see if I acknowledge tywin's case on Alisae.

I'd be interested to hear how y'all fucked that up. SK wins only in a Lylo situation with 3 people and mislynch.

The real answer is you leash them and lynch them only if you feel you're out of scum. I'm not sure the current state of wincons for an SK but I'm pretty sure they lose an endgame with scum having majority. It's from that perspective that you keep them around and keep careful track of kills/lynch majority so you don't somehow skip mylo/lylo. Wasting time on Vig/Sk day 2 is completely pointless. Gets you no information, gets you a guaranteed non-groupscum lynch, gives scum nothing to fear at night.

Aj, Titus, and Pine have the towniest answers to this question imo. Stopped going through more of the thread looking for more replies to this question because really tired but I'm okay with tywin lynch, nothing discouraging me from what I rechecked.

Kyouko and Nos reads?

I think Alisae is sk, not liking tywin rn, and I doubt sonia killed cloudkicker. People who know each other irl are usually really good at reading each other, and I really don't think that Sonia wouldn't figure out cloud was a traitor if she was mafia.

No I expected Syr to shoot me.

what the fuck? Aren't YOU the vig? Why would Syr shoot the actual vig?

I am the vig.
But I thought he cud be vig to.
Idunno, maybe he no believe claim so he go pew pew and me ded?
That is if there is 2 vigs.
Maybe it's at the time I really did not understand his humor.

Was the question answered about where you learned mafia from

This was like the only substantial post I could find in that ISO. Possibly sowing the seed of scum!Sonia being town on the basis that she would have figured out Cloud was the traitor. Could be coincidence. Nos also says not liking Tywin rn. Either way, she connects with these 2 players here and doesn't really ever interact with anyone else. I would be surprised if neither of these were scum. Keep them on the vig list for now imo.

VOTE: Tywin

[Elbirn]

vote:Moz

I am counting this as a vote.

Votecount 2.F

mozamis 8 (Titus, ssbm_Kyouko, Pine, Gamma Emerald, Alisae, Aj The Epic, Nero Cain, Elbirn)

Aj The Epic 3 (Elbirn, Cabd, Tywin Lannister)
Tywin Lannister 1 (xSoniaNevermindx)
Alisae 1 (Nosferatu)

Not Voting 1 (Syryana)

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Syryana will have to respond to a PM from me by night's end or I'll be forced to replace him.

mozamis has been lynched Day 2. He was a...

Spoiler:

Town Mason

Night 2, 48 hours. The game may pause while I find a replacement if I don't hear from Syryana within 48 hours.

Christ alive hey guys when you're a FUCKING MASON AND YOURE GETTING LYNCHED DON'T FAKE CLAIM VANILLA TOWN

FUCK MY SHIT UP FAM

*clears throat*

At any rate, I need to stare at a lake and rethink my life, clearly, but in the meantime Nero can go fuck himself. I bring his "vote" to his attention no less than 80 bamillion times and at no point does he indicate that his vote was real/fake, counts/doesn't, was a joke/was serious. It just sits there waiting for someone to look like a dumbass over it, and scum gets a lynch where we could have maaybbeee had the mason actually claim.

VOTE: Nero Cain

[Elbirn]

Mason buddy should absolutely claim because if they get vigged I am going to throw a tantrum

[Aj The Epic]

Please don't lynch Tywin.

[Aj The Epic]

It's actually seriously obvious Tywin was a mason with Mozamis. As soon as mozamis flipped, I wanted to kick myself for not seeing it.

[Elbirn]

I bring his "vote" to his attention no less than 80 bamillion times

Oh.

No. No this was a lie, I brought it up exactly once before I voted.

....I'm still upset with him because I'm an insufferable child.

[Elbirn]

Hey Aj, shut up

[Titus]

I always scumread Masons. Ffs. Claim it. There's a fakeness to mason reads because they have hidden info. :@

[Titus]

It's actually seriously obvious Tywin was a mason with Mozamis. As soon as mozamis flipped, I wanted to kick myself for not seeing it.

Syr is the mason. Tyr is whiteknighting scum most likely.