...for obvious reasons...
Mini 500 - Cult Mafia - Game Over!
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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This is an odd strategy recommendation. I don't see the town benefitting in any way by a town lynch. If a person claims town, then they are a mark for the cult, but they could be lynched the next day (since we could safely assume the cult went after them that night). I suppose that nobody should claim vanilla townie (although it could be a good way to force the cult to waste a recruiting opprptunity if you were a special role)
We know that there are special roles, hense the fact that only townies can be recruited. The one thing I agree with the Dr. BS on is the beneift of lynching the recruiter D1.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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Stream of conscieness is 5...4...3...2...1
The way I see it, if there 5 vanillas, and the cult is blind, the cult has a 50/50 shot at a successful recruit N1. (you may have to do some fancy figuring to get around the odds of a townie getting lynched and NK and recruited then nightkilled, but roughly I think 50/50 is close.)
At night the mafia has three avenues. NK a vanilla, NK a power role or NK a cultist. Regardless, the mafia wins if a NK is successful. The town can win at night if the mafia NK a cultist and the cult fails to recruit (this is the ideal scenerio)
The cult can't do anything to stop the Mafia except to play ball during the day and try to lynch scum. In this respect, the goals of the Cult and the Town are the same. At night, the NEED vanillas. They need at least enough to have the advantage when the town eliminates the all the scum.
And now the town. Where do we stand? Lynching scum, and lynching cult is the main objective. The cult is only going to get harder to take out, so I see that as priority #1.
While there may be instances where lynching vanilla is of benefit, I think those instances are rare. But yes, we are better of we dead vanillas then recruited vanillas.
/SOC off-
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pwayne66 Goon
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In a way, I see where the Doc is coming from. If we manage a situation where there are no vanilla townies, and all pro-town power roles, we manage to defeat the cult. The only problem is this: I can see no way to reach this situation on purpose. It almost requires the cooperation of the mafia (I doubt we can get that) and then only works if the cult doesn't recruit during the 3 days that it would take to eliminate all the nillas. (that is three days assuming that the town lynches vanilla every day and the mafia NK vanilla every night)-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I am failing to follow the logic behind the Dr. Blackstrike bandwagon. Some think he is too culty and some think he is too scummy. Some did so in order to stimulate discussion despite the fact that the doc seems to be talking alright without stimulation.
Curious considering there are a number of people that have failed to post anything at all or at least anything other thatn a random vote but aren't raising any kind of attention. So as it goes, we are rewarding non-contributers, punishing contributers and creating an atmosphere where people are afraid to post their thoughts. Any speculation who that benefits?-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I can see how somebody would think this is scummy, but they I think they would be wrong. He has stated that sacrificing vanilla townies in favor of losing power roles is preferable. He is right. He has stated that a dead townie is better than a culty townie. He is right. He has stated that townies ought to get themselves lynched intentionally in order to avoid losing power roles. Here, he is wrong. Not scummy, just wrong.You don’t see how Dr. BS’s post could be taken as scummy?
As far as what I have done to get the other talking. Nothing. I have been more focused on figuring out the logistics of this game. I am just arguing that we put aside the "gotcha" politics for a moment and determine a course of action. My only point about the other lurkers was this: if somebody wants to stimulate conversation, as flameaxe has claimed, why put pressure on one of the few guys talking. If I were playing gotcha politics right now, I would jump all over that.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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The world according to pwayne:
Mastermind of Sin- I'm not thrilled about his random vote in the middle of page 4 or his lack of an apology for his absence. It's not that I need an apology, or that accidents don't happen, It would just show some sort of interest in helping the town.
Oman- Can't get a good feel on him. Has posted calm and reasonable insight. Has his sights on Flameaxe and I don't know that I blame him.
ac1983fan- I can't anything here.
vollkan- seems legit. suspicions of flameaxe might be a little aggressive.
Dr. Blackstrike- early questions cast suspicions about his loyalty. I have no particular reason to believe him town but don't think that his question betray his allegiance.
curiouskarmadog- first to jump on Dr. BS and his questions were legit. May have stayed on the "Dr. BS bandwagon" too long though.
tyhess- continues to vote Dr. BS b/c he is "weird". This seems, well... weird.
Trojan Horse- seems intent on contributing to the discussion
Flameaxe- Seems a tad defensive. that's not scumtell but it should be noted. Like CKD, I can appreciate a little pressure on the doc intially, but he seems to try too hard too build a case that isn't there.
Rump-Wat- His "Flameaxe was suspicious and now isn't but initially it was a random vote" stance is bothersome. I would like to know specifically what was suspicious about flameaxe and what happened to stop the suspicion.
theopor_COD- was absent for quite a while and as far as I am concerned is still. Can't list any real pros or cons.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66
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pwayne66 Goon
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...well at least its something. Of course I explained that I thought we ought to back off with the pressure and "gotcha" BS so that we can determine what is and isn't scummy before we start throwing the phrase around willy nilly and inducing hysteria when nobody has a clue what the hell they are talking about. It's my belief that hysteria, coupled with a disorganized town benefits scum. Do you disagree?Mainly because he jumped to the Doctor's defence - I can see scum doing this if Doctor's town - he was incredibly scummy first three or so pages and doesn't want us to assert pressure and bullying tactics to catch scum - I see that as very anti-town whatever the method of game. Seperately I've seen a lot of scum do them list things, ppl think they look great, so scum do the odd one liners to impress. Anyways all for now.
As far as my defense of the doctor goes. I don't give a rodents rear end about the doctor himself. I think I made it clear that my defense was of an open conversation and strategy session prior to "game on". I guess that I did not make that clear, though I don't see how I could have expressed that any better.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I believe that a clarification is in order... I have nothing against pressure voting and bullying to find scum if it is done correctly. I have stated (and then again) that the only thing I opposed was the way it was used.
What's more, alot of time that bullly tactics are employeed, they are used in lieu of solid logic. That puts the town in a situation where a perfectly innocent townie thinking he is going to break the game open, tries to pressure somebody over something stupid. Somebody calls him out for his bad logic and he defends his stance. In the end this perfectly innocent townie begins to look like scum.I don't agree with using pressure to disuade conversation. This type of game is new to most of us. We ought to encourage all the discussion and sharing of ideas we can prior to the game really starting. If Dr. BS has a point I want to hear it, not discourage him by using bully tactics.
Unfortunatley, he has invested his soul and his manhood into bullying player X and doesn't back down so that he can save face. What is good for the town and what is bad for the town flies out the window. He is going to win himself a pissing contest. Maybe he even votes for himself to prove a point... Who hasn't seen this scenerio time and time again. This doesn't help the town, this hurts the town.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I've got my eye on pwayne because I found him defending Blackstrike more than anyone, asking Curious/Flame in 45 to not bully him, notuse pressure votes to extract information
These characterizations of this comment (bolds by me)
don't sit well with me. One of three things are happening here. 1) You are deliberatly mischaractrizing my position 2) You misread my position or 3) You correctly read my position but believe that I was implying something else.I don't agree withusing pressure to disuade conversation. This type of game is new to most of us. We ought to encourage all the discussion and sharing of ideas we can prior to the game really starting. If Dr. BS has a point I want to hear it, not discourage him by using bully tactics.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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I can see the vote hoping thing, but this changing your post thing and the defensive "responses" following seem to be irrelevant. I think the fact that he wanted to delete his double post indicates very little and the fact that it has been brought up (in any context) multiple times would annoy me as well.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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There is no incentive to get yourself lynched D1 as a townie either. I mean, if we are to assume that as scum, he would be smart enough to avoid a scummy situation, what causes him to be less smart as a townie.
Either way, he made himself look scummy. Very likely it was accidental. Both scum and townies have accidents.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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Talk about brains hurting, I'm not even sure I follow what is going on anymore
It seems that:
1) MoS posts defending FlameAxe and Theo
2) Oman calls him out for it
3) MoS and Vollkan beat the hell out of him over semantical issues.
4) Lost in the dust is any answers from MoS on how he reconciles Flameaxes' actions against the Doc. Lost is his answers about how posting content clears Theo.
5) MoS doesn't bother reading other's viewpoints as they might influence him
6) This is AOK with Volkan.
Am I missing something?-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I suppose if one thing were to bother me hear it would be this: It seems that Oman is expected to write verbatim his case against you and how he believes that you are connected to your partners, yet he is admonished for not being satisfied with your case that Theo and Axe are protown b/c they seem geniune to you.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I have never considered voting for somebody calling them scum. I have never considered it wishing them dead either. Obviously there are instances where this is the case, but some people random vote, some do so to discourage lurking. Some do so to apply pressure. It seems that Oman wasn't satisfied with your answer and voted for you to get your attention and get you to take him seriously.
As far as you answering and him not liking the answers. Isn't that how this is supposed to work? You made a statement impling that you know something about the alignment of other players and a good townie is supposed to demand explainations.
As an IC, do you think the town ought to take to accepting "x feels protown" , "I think x is geniune" and "scum wouldn't do x" as reasonable statements that should be accepted without question?-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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hm... I thought I did... but it seems that saying that saying "don't claim town" make you a recruiter... unless your Volkan... and then it makes you protown..?Ok, then go ahead and propose one! Sitting around asking for other people to do all the work equates with doing nothing other than whining, moping and complaining. If you don't like how somethings going, do something about it.
Then again you seem to be one of those guys that think that saying someones elses ideas are crappy means that you are contributing, so keep up the good work...I guess...-
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pwayne66 Goon
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While we are at it, I've looked all over trying to find where I advocated sitting around asking for other people to do all the work. I am sure that it is here, since you wouldn't make something like that up (after all that would be pretty scummy). Care to help me out?White, you really didn't answer his question.....he asked where he said any of those things-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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...some say aggressive, some say obnoxious. I can see that there are many things that I am going to have to suck up and get used to though. Among them are: gross mis characterizations, double standards, evasiveness and an over powering sense of self importance.It's how I play, suck it up and get used to it. Some people around here would call it agressive.
I will try my best. I also apologizing for not "getting" your shtick, I just had a hard time believing that anybody wouldchooseto play that way. I assumed that it was a flaw in your personality. I was wrong. Sorry.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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Are we reading the same game here? At what point have I indicated that I abhor confrontation (for that matter, I never did hear where I advocated sitting back and asking others to work). I have confronted a hoard of posters for what I felt was a weak case against Dr. BS. I have confront both MoS and Volkan for what still strikes me as a tag teamed and illogical attack on Oman. I have attacked you repeatedly for mischaracterizing actions in this game.Pwayne - Strikes me as a pacifist. Seems to abhor confrontation and doesn't like to "dissuade conversation" by voting for someone (I have yet to see this work in reality, votes stimulate conversation) which sounds crock to me. Takes things personally and needs to realize it's just a game. I'm willing to attribute this all to newbiness though. No FoS but still somewhat suspicious.
As far as taking things personally. It always seems that the most aggresive posters that get defensive call names and claim that it is them just "playing the game" and that the other player "takes things too seriously" when somebody calls them out. It never seems to occur to them that the other player might just be playing along, and in reality they are the ones bringing the arguement OOC by talking about playing the game and other being to serious.
Onto newbiness... try answersing some questions, and comprehending what is happening in this game correctly and then I will take you serious as an IC.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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Earlier in this game, when it was to the town's benefit to place ourselves in the shoes of the cult to determine what course of action to take, Flameaxe and Karmadog promptly voted for him. The only result I saw coming from this was Dr. BS changing his stance or maintaining his line of thought under the threat of lynch. Thus he backed away from an idea that he still seems to support but fears expressing the reasons why as he might be seen as culty.It was said based off of your desire to not pressure vote to dissuade conversation (could you provide an example of when a vote dissuades conversation?) which I still interpret as a desire to not pressure vote.
Dissuading conversation is anti-town. Allowing Dr BS to state his full case, is pro town. Bullying him into shutting his mouth is anti-town.
It strikes me as odd that the town still buys the theory that the votes on Dr. BS stimulated conversation. Dr. BS has been non-existent since the incident. He was posting prior to it.
Pressure votes do work when people are not talking or not answering specific questions. Players that are willfully talking still react to votes, but in the opposite way.
I'll post my scumdar tomorrow after I reread the last few pages.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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Possibly. Or it could have made him more scummy looking. The point is, now, we don't know. He stopped talking. The post everybody jumped on was still going to be there and could be referenced later.I agree that it's anti town. However I see things differently. Dr BS posted what he thought, it came across scummy and was interpreted by I think everyone as not protown. Are you saying we should've encouraged him to keep spouting off not protown statements and that would've made him less scummy looking?
Do you feel like you got more insight in Dr. BS's position or motivations because he was pressured. I don't. I think he would have been perfectly happy to continue telling us what he thought had the bull in the china shop approach not been taken.
I have stated that I felt that the start of this game ought to be treated differently. I have stated that I thought everybody was so too anxious to start posting "x is scummy" b/c I didn't feel that the same rules of scumminess applied. I have stated that I thought the town needed to discuss what is and is not the goal of scum in this game and that I felt people saying "you messed up you must be scum" was only distracting to developing a town plan. I am apparently alone in my reasoning.
Anything that I have said during this phase (3 pages or so?) was done for the stated purpose. It wasn't done for hunting scum. I didn't feel like I had enough info to hunt scum during this phase. I doubted anybody else did too.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I lied. I put a quick one together today. I included my first list on page four and inserted any changes.
He has explained this and argued it with White. I never thought this action was scummy, only disrespectful. That said, I am much more concerned with his actions, evasiveness and defensiveness toward Oman.Mastermind of Sin- I'm not thrilled about his random vote in the middle of page 4 or his lack of an apology for his absence. It's not that I need an apology, or that accidents don't happen, It would just show some sort of interest in helping the town.
Also doesn't seem to take much seriously. This could pose trouble later on as it provides opprotunity to say "I was just playing then" if asked questions about actions.Oman- Can't get a good feel on him. Has posted calm and reasonable insight. Has his sights on Flameaxe and I don't know that I blame him.
Nothing has changed here. This absolutley has to stop.ac1983fan- I can't anything here.
Here, I agree with White. He is in a mediator role so far, and it bothers me. The tagteam action of MoS and himself against Oman, is troubling as well.Vollkan- seems legit. suspicions of flameaxe might be a little aggressive.
needs to post more. Considering that he is on a lot of people's lists, he ought to be concerned with ridding himself of those suspicions. If he isn't, that seems suspicious.Dr. Blackstrike- early questions cast suspicions about his loyalty. I have no particular reason to believe him town but don't think that his question betray his allegiance.
Nothing new IMO.curiouskarmadog- first to jump on Dr. BS and his questions were legit. May have stayed on the "Dr. BS bandwagon" too long though.
Hasn't improved in my view.tyhess- continues to vote Dr. BS b/c he is "weird". This seems, well... weird.
No changes.Trojan Horse- seems intent on contributing to the discussion
Needs to be around more. I don't really hold the Dr. BS situation against him, but given the lack of anything else to judge, it's all I have.Flameaxe- Seems a tad defensive. that's not scumtell but it should be noted. Like CKD, I can appreciate a little pressure on the doc initially, but he seems to try too hard too build a case that isn't there.
Now White. If I had to guess, I would say protown. I can't imagine scum benefiting from bringing this much attention to themselves (WIFOM anybody?). Likes to stir the pot. I will be curious to see how this works out.Rump-Wat- His "Flameaxe was suspicious and now isn't but initially it was a random vote" stance is bothersome. I would like to know specifically what was suspicious about flameaxe and what happened to stop the suspicion.
I am hard pressed to find anything either protown or controversial about this player.theopor_COD- was absent for quite a while and as far as I am concerned is still. Can't list any real pros or cons.
Vote:MoS
PS. I realized that I forgot AC while I was typing this out. That speaks volumes to his/her contribution to this game.[/b]-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I'm not going to argue that you are too defensive. i think that you were, but I also think this is a strawman. The meat of my argument is evasiveness and a refusal to help the town.On top of that, I'm still waiting for anyone to show that my response was overreacting at all. As far as I recall, my response at the time was fairly logically based and non-emotional, which is not something that is paired with overreactive and defensive. However, I will state that a response such as that is not the norm for me, but I don't really have a reason for why I acted differently. Normally, my response *would* be one of incredulity, but I guess I decided to see if Oman could back up his accusations or something.
Post 210 Oman:
MoS wrote:
He's smart enough to not mess up this early as town,
WIFOM. What do you think of his strange work on Blackstrike?
MoS never answers this question.
so, post 219 Oman:
The content of this post doesn't seem to make alot of sense, but I agree with it in spirit.The follow up post ot that hardly has me thinking that either MoS has a developed plan on theo and Flame or that theo and flame really are genuine.
Unvote Vote MoS This is rediculous.
Vollkan asks Oman to explain and he posts 222
and thenAfter MoS' one post saying "Theo good, Flameaxe good" I asked him for more and he said...
At which point both his "developed plan" comment and his bandwagon comment become strawmen for a beautifully executed evasion of the original question.e completly brushes over the fact that flameaxe came under the microscope not for vote hopping, but for his poor case on Blackstrike.
His analysis of theo is in my mind incorrect, as even scum can have content, and that doesn't mean they're pro-town.
Basically his reluctance to jump on either of the major wagons for reasons I don't like make me think he's scummy.
In post 225, Oman answers MoS' question. In post 226 Vollkan helps MoS avoid answering the question by pressing Oman on his "developed stance" comment.
In Post 227 Vollkan:
A simultaneous defence of MoS' refusal to answer the question while restating the origninal question.MoS has ignored the actual reasons for the suspicions, but why does that make him scummy?
Also, MoS, what do you think of the actual cases against Theo and Flame?
In post 228, MoS, still to answer the original question, persists on asking even more questions that are pure over reactions of Oman's comment and vote.
MoS replies in 229:
An odd responce. The fact that somebody would not read every post in the thread seems unhelpful. How is MoS supposed to understand why anybody is voting for anybody else if he doesn't read their reasons? This deliberate handicap seems to let MoS off the hook though as Vollkan is quick to respond in 232I didn't read any cases on them. I wasn't going to be influenced in my opinions when asked to say what I think of them, because it's all too easy to just paraphrase the case and make yourself look good without really trying to say what you think. I only read their posts in isolation before saying how I felt about them.
Fair enough; this is a very reasonable thing to do.
Reasonable? How is not reading other peoples arguments reasonable?
In post 228, MoS, still to answer the original question, persists on asking even more questions that are pure over reactions of Oman's comment and vote.
In post 230, Oman corrects MoS' charcterization of his accusations:
In post 233 Oman states:MoS wrote:
So, your theory is that I'm scum and They're possibly scum
scumMY! I don't know you're scum. My theory is that you are connected to one if not both in some way. I don't think there is three scum in this game (rules post), but I believe there is a connection or if they're town., you're trying to form one (buddying up).
followed a very ironic:My biggest problem was not that he didn't see them as scummy, but that he gave crap reasons for it, AND ignored half the case, Vollkan.
from MoS, considering that Oman has played along and answered all the questions asked of him and you still won't answer his one question!Apparently I'm not the only one ignoring things...^^
MoS continues to ask and have answered questions in 236 & 238.
In post 243, I post:
to which MoS replies:Talk about brains hurting, I'm not even sure I follow what is going on anymore
It seems that:
1) MoS posts defending FlameAxe and Theo
2) Oman calls him out for it
3) MoS and Vollkan beat the hell out of him over semantical issues.
4) Lost in the dust is any answers from MoS on how he reconciles Flameaxes' actions against the Doc. Lost is his answers about how posting content clears Theo.
5) MoS doesn't bother reading other's viewpoints as they might influence him
6) This is AOK with Volkan.
Am I missing something?
MoS seems unconcerned about #4 and not answering questions.I'm not arguing semantics. You missed that.
In post 248 MoS gives a heartfelt post about how Oman thinks he is scum (hasn't Oman corrected this once already) and wants him dead, therefore his reaction (and evasion?) was justified.
In post 251, I ask
Now, I don't want to give away the ending here but, I haven't got an answer for that either...As an IC, do you think the town ought to take to accepting "x feels protown" , "I think x is geniune" and "scum wouldn't do x" as reasonable statements that should be accepted without question?
and now, MoS is being oppositional defiant by refusing to post his suspicions. Am I alone in not being surprised?
Confirm Vote:MoS-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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CKD wrote wrote:For the most part, all I really see from him is him defending himself from attacks from others.
Do either of you have an opinion of his evasiveness? This is the main part of my vote against him, not his defensiveness.Flameaxe wrote wrote:However, people are attacking him because he is being too defensive. I have never really understood that argument.-
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pwayne66
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pwayne66 Goon
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I am not concerned with him defending himself. I agree, it isn't scummy, just detrimental to the town.CKD wrote:think I stated I do not think defensiveness on a whole is scummy (some peopel think you are being defensive)...if someone is attacking you (scum or town) you defend yourself. I guess your problem is how he is doing it suggests he is scum to you...am I right? do I need to reread your post again?
For the record, if MoS was truly interested in defending himself, he would just answer the questions. As it is, I get the impress defense is the last thing on his mind.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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On the other end of the spectrum, theo's original statement seems innocent enough. It seems to be more of an off the cuff statement than a case for tyhess' innocence. His reluctance to answer the question might be a reflection of that. (ie- he doesn't have a real reason).
I can see where Oman's vote might be seen as an over-reaction, but my fear is this: that the town is becoming one where helping each other find scum is no longer the goal, rather seeing who got the biggest balls is. If this is the case, the mafia/cult's path to success will be lot easier.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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My most suspicious would be MoS, Vollkan and tyhess.
The three I think we would benefit the most from focusing on is MoS, theo and tyhess.
Volk rings wrong but I think I am alone in thinking so. I also don't think there is anything to build a case on.
AC needs to be replaced, grilling him won't work.
Theo b/c he is the one that I have the hardest time reading at this point.
MoS may or may not be scum. Needs pressure to begin taking this game as seriously as I believe him capable of.
tyhess- his play has improved. his earlier ambiguity still deserves some scrutiny.
in short: MoS, theo and tyhess.-
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pwayne66
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pwayne66
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pwayne66 Goon
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Isn't MoS's theory really just one massive OMGUS to everybody that has had the audacity to ask him some simple questions and expect to be acknowledged? Don't answer that MoS. (reverse pyscology? or reverse reverse pyscology? hmmm...)
Point is: MoS is anti-town. MoS is pro-MoS. He claims his tactics are meant to bring scum out into the light, but conveniently he is the only one that can correctly divine the results of his tests. Somehow, only MoS knows how many assumptions the town can safely make when untangling his elaborate WIFOM arguement. MoS is the only person that can say what questions he ought and ought not consider answering and then only he can determine what assumptions should be drawn from his decisions. Sounds like a scum utopia.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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Thats called logic and deduction? It seems to me that it requires us to do two things: 1) assume that one of the people on your wagon is scum. 2) assume that you are not scum. Where I come from, that's not logic. That's called a leap of faith.MoS in post 432 wrote:What I said is that scum are likely to jump on easy bandwagons when someone is acting obviously scummy, therefore one of the people that voted me is almost certainly scum. That's called logic and deduction, but then you obviously don't know about that.
Aside from the fact that he watchs too much Jerry Springer, we know this about MoS: he likes metagaming unless it is used against him...MoS in post 432 wrote:Especially from me? What the fuck do you know about me? You know nothing me, otherwise you wouldn't think I was scum. Don't come up with bullshit reasons to keep from having to unvote me. "Especially from someone like MoS" my ass.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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This still gets me. It seems that all of the MoS apologists have reduced his actions and the case against him as defensiveness while the case against him is about refusing to cooperate.Vollkan wrote:MoS does kind of have a point here; I myself am among those who were not convinced by the case against him. The early accusations of defensiveness seemed to have no basis of me and then things very quickly jumped to him saying it was intentional.
For me, this bandwagon is and always has been about pressure. If the town is going to win, it is going to be because EVERYBODY posted content and answered questions. Instead we are rewarding and praising some attention starved, John Wayne wannabe by saying "It's ok if you don't want to talk" and "oh jeez, I don't know why everybody is being so mean to you..."
Instead we have a town that pressures a person that IS talking into shutting the fuck up and doesn't want to pressure somebody that's not talking in order to get them to answer a mounting list of questions.
jtfc.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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This is why I am seriously getting pissed. We have spent all day looking at you and all you have to do to change that is extend the same courtesy to us as we have to you: answer the questions posed to you. YOU have made yourself the number one suspect. YOU brag about this fact. YOU are the one that is forcing us to waste all of our day one resources trying to get questions answered from nearly four pages ago. YOU are not defending yourself. YOU are not answering questions. And YOU have done so intentionally.MoS wrote: This game isn't about me. There are more than one scum in this game, and we can't win by looking at one person at a time. You wait until I'm dead to pressure someone else, and you've wasted a day. The cult will have recruited someone, the mafia will have killed someone, and you've lost a lot of opinions that you could have used to find scum. For the latter half of this game, the only momentous discussion has been me defending myself against attacks that don't even make sense half the time. This is not helping the game. If you want to talk about helping the game, do some of it yourself.
If you don't understand the case against you then you are being deliberately obtuse. YOU made the case against you, remember? You have reminded us several times that you created this situation but now you want us to believe that you don't understand it? Which is it: You created this to capture scum, or scum created this to capture you. I won't hold my breath for the answer.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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So you have changed this position as well?MoS wrote: I am answering as many of the points brought up against me as I can. Feel free to reiterate anything that I need to respond to.
I have brought up the questions. I'm going to bed. I'll find them in the morning.MoS wrote:Sure I'm evading questions. It's fun, and it draws scum out of the woodwork as the react to it.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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I jumped off of MoS b/c I thought he might be at lynch -1 and I didn't want him to get lynched just when he seems willing to play ball. He still is the most suspicious player to me (even more so in light of his "I have answered all questions to the best of my abilities" statement he made)
@tyhess- are you ready to lynch MoS based on what you have seen so far?
If yes, are you ready to do so because you think he is scum, because he is distracting and annoying, or because he deserves it for his untown friendly behavior.
I ask b/c I don't necessarily think he is scum. He might be might not be. I know this: if it came down to a lylo situation, he would be the last person I would want to be in the game. I also know that failure to lynch at this point sets a dangerous precedent: that you are not accountable for what you say or for defending your positions.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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I might have to check this out. The whole reason I would have any doubt about him actually being scum is the fact that he is an IC. The fact that he likes to play the newb card could change that.MoS, read my whole posts next time. I metagamed you from Bad Idea II where you (as scum) killed someone to make it look like the scum was some newbie thereby discrediting yourself as scum. The reason this is applicable is because we were talking about your "tactic" to lure scum and how it was newbish and you said something along the lines of you couldn't do it because you're not a newb.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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This was a reference to my original suspicions of you, where you seem to argue that saying you think somebody is protown does not require further commentary. Oman pressed the issue and you never went beyond flimsy WIFOM analysis. I address this in 316.MoS wrote:Just as a point of fact, though. I have always defended my positions. As far as I know, I have only deigned not to comment on the positions of others. Every position I have taken, I have defended to the fullest or given a good reason that I changed my mind.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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pwayne66 Goon
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are you always such a asshole? If you want to make a point then make it. there are no extra points for being obnoxious.since you failed miserably at finding it.
there is a very large part of me that feels that is the only reason you have such a bandwagon. this has been the least pleasant experience I have yet had on this site and I think primarily b/c of your condescending comments and general assholary.
I think I taken a pretty solid shot at getting to the bottom of your scumminess or non-scumminess. It seems that you stonewall at every attempt. And then you seem to gleefully flaunt this fact. You question the intelligence of anybody who disagrees with you. You counter accuse rather then answer questions. You nit pick apart a persons post rather than deal with the actual subject of that post. You reduce things down to pointless quibbling.-
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pwayne66 Goon
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