Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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- minor, but I don't see a reason to remove a random vote here unless you found a better place for it. Just curious as to why you felt the need to unvote just to discuss the issue.q21 wrote:Only L-5, but anyway...
I'll admit to never having played a game with a miller before, so I'm not sure what the best course of action is to deal with one. Do we lynch him to clear up possible future complications? Do we let him go? Could he be scum trying to hide behind a miller claim? Anyone experience one the matter would be helpful.
unvote, at least until the issue has been cleared up to some extent
- How to deal with X here depends on if you believe the claim or not. If you believe him, then there is no reason to lynch him. If he acts scummy, we lynch him.
I have seen this done once before and the player claiming was town. What he has basically done is say if he is investigated, he will come up guilty. We currently have no way of knowing if there is a miller in the game or not. He is either telling the truth or he is scum. Either way he would come up guilty if investigated. Beyond that, there is a level of WIFOM involved (although there is far more advantage for town miller to claim this than lying scum). It is not impossible scum would do this, but less likely than the obvious answer which would have X as town miller.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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Based off of 26 game posts by 9/12 players, I am not sure I have formed enough of an opinion on anybody yet. The only standout items for me right now would be the unvote by Q21 I already commented on (just odd, but I haven't seen a precedent for this to be a scum tell) and post 26 by farkin. I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about pressuring a 'lurker' with a FoS just feels off. I personally use FoS's only if I feel my vote is in an important spot, but others may approach it differently. If there was any legit suspicion there, why not move the vote from random (happens to be me) to the lurker?TheSweatpantsNinja wrote:
So revive it. Who do you think is scum? Why?bionicchop2 wrote: X's claim killed the game before it even had a chance to live!The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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I find it hard to believe anybody can get an intuitive hunch on page 2. Most players I have seen who play by gut consistently don't generally seem to form their opinions this early.Mr_Adams wrote: serious? you guys really find it that hard to believe that I voted somebody on an intuitive hunch? (my hunchs- generaly wrong) Fine, suit yourself.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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You are misrepresenting the scale of events, both in your response to my vote and in your phrasing of question(s) to him. I have bolded the word 'some' in your quote above. Here is the 'one' question you asked him, which was also your first vote directed at him.chazworthington wrote:
Right now, all we have from Mr Adam is that his gut is telling him that he doesn't believe X. It is in the best interest of the town to force Mr Adam to define this further. Therefore, I've asked himbionicchop2 wrote:unvote avacado;vote chaz
While I don't agree with Mr_Adam's hunch, I didn't see his vote on X as a scummy action. Out of the people voting for him, Chaz seems to be the most opportunistic.somequestions and backed it up with a vote.
I bolded the word several because it means more than two, but not many. This would imply there was a series of questions and answers with 'X' and others. Here are the 2 questions:chazworthington wrote:Severalof us have put forth questions to X regarding his claim. I'd like your opinion of each of his answers.
Here is the first (2 part) question from q21.q21 wrote:One question for X though: Why wait until you had attracted a couple of votes, albeit random ones, before making the early miller claim? Why not claim miller in your first post?
There was your question, which wasn't much of a question.chazworthington wrote:
Can you provide the thread where you heard it was good practice to claim miller early?X wrote:Actually, since I'm at L-4, I'll claim: I'm a miller. I heard it's good practice to claim miller early if you are one.
Now if you asked me for my opinion on his responses to those 2 questions, I wouldn't have one. Neither were very pressing questions and the answers were equally run of the mill.
Is KoC trying to keep you from answering?chazworthington wrote:Insinnuating that I'm being opportunistic while trying to get infomation is pretty poor, especially given some of the other votes on his wagon. Any reason you called me out on it? Or are you trying to keep Mr. Adams from answering? IGMEOY
The other 3 votes against Adam's made sense (regardless of me agreeing / disagreeing with the reasoning). Farkin expressed suspicion and followed it up later with a vote. X was the one being voted by Adam's and there is always a small amount of OMGUS when someone attacks you (if you know a case is false, you suspect the accuser). KoC came across as intentionally trying to increase pressure and the reasoning was based on new information (the unvote) which does look a little odd.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Um... how, exactly? All he saying is that if Adams answers his questions, he'll consider unvoting him. Right now, Adams hasn't answered, so chaz hasn't unvoted...
Your vote came with a question. You could have asked the question, then voted if he dodged it, but you chose the guilty until proven innocent route. I said your vote was opportunistic and I think you are trying to blend in. This does not imply your question shouldn't be answered.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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ZazieR wrote:The hunch isn't the problem with me. I didn't like how he unvoted immediatly after when some players gave comments regarding Adam's vote against X.
Bionicchop2, what do you think of this?
As I mentioned in my previous post, I do think the unvote is odd. From earlier in the game, you can see I am not a big fan of unvoting unless a player is in immediate danger of a lynch which needs to be delayed or there is a better place for a vote. This move does hint of trying to appease the other players. This is his first action I would interpret as a possible scum tell.bionicchop2 wrote:KoC came across as intentionally trying to increase pressure and the reasoning was based on new information (the unvote) which does look a little odd.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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Call it what you want. I look for the wolf in sheep's clothing trying to fit in. 4 players voted for someone and 3 of them gave legitimate reasons for being there. The semantics of the wording are just a side note to the issue and given to elaborate my reasoning when asked about it.X wrote: And bionicchop2, post 66 is simply manipulating semantics. I don't really find anything convincing in it. This may just be your style, but I wouldn't say it's a clear one. I'm a fan of looking for scummy actions and insinuations, but not preoccupying oneself with word choice.
I saw - vote w/ reason, vote w/ reason, vote w/ question, vote w/ reason. The question itself came across as a thinly veiled attempt to look like he was scum hunting. The vote post had no reason for the vote, just the question. Then the follow up post said he would remove the vote if the question was answered and not dodged. Seems like a flimsy vote just being tucked away on a wagon picking up momentum.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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It seems you have taken a few different angles to try and shake votes off you - none of which resemble scum hunting.Mr_Adams wrote:you know what would be really funny? is if after all this I turned out to be a jester...
unvote chaz;vote Mr_Adams
It is also odd you had to look up what a miller was, but you know the jester role which is used much less frequently.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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Yeah I have played there for a long time, just never mafia. I am 'A Man's Part' there.Mr_Adams wrote:oh, and conquerclub is a site for online risk, with a very active forum. thelink in my sig will take you to a sign up page if your intrested in a game of risk, I'll happily give you a beating =PThe above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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ummm....no...A Mans Part
Also, I read what my eyes would let me of your game there (very brief skim). You were a lover (town I think) but claimed Jester.
Yes, answering questions and linking games when requested is important because they do change people's opinions. Whether town or mafia,you should never just accept a lynch (especially when you only have 4-5 votes).The above written statement is pro-town.-
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If we are L-1 (awaiting vote count) then he should claim, but we should not hammer yet.Riceballtail wrote:So, we have Adams at L-1. Are we ready to lynch him? I'm leaning towards dropping the hammer with all the jester speculation. But, if he were actually a jester, he would have hammered, or at least voted himself, at this point.
Replacements have not had time to read.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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My thoughts against (and vote for) Chaz were based mostly on the assumption Mr_Adams was town. There was a decent case against him, but the vote by Chaz was leaning me against him actually being scum. Since then, Mr_Adams has done a few scummy things - namely conceding to a lynch and lack of scum hunting. I decided to put him closer to a lynch and gauge how he reacted (as well as others).Xtoxm wrote:Bionic, I have just noticed you are voting Adams. Yet you have posted several posts that appear to be against his lynching.
Why are you voting him? Or atleast, why have you not unvoted him since you corroborated "my angle"?
Now, I had zazier listed as one of my alternate suspects which is why I said I liked that angle. Flying under the radar while trying to appear active is one of my pet peeves. I haven't removed my vote from Adams because I don't feel any need to. I will see how zaz responds to your vote and how the rest of the day proceeds.
Now that we have replacements, the tone of the game is already shifting and I think I will be able to get a slightly better gauge on things.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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In response to Mr_Adam's vote on X:ZazieR wrote:I kept my vote on him as we don't know his allignment. He can say that he's a miller, while actually being scum and I don't want him out of the spotlight yet.
These 2 statements seem to contradict each other.ZazieR wrote:Okay, i didn't like your hunch, but that is just your opinion. I can't change your opinion so i didn't respond to it, although I don't agree with it.
You are asking a lot of small prodding questions to seem active. You have yet to respond to any responses of your questions. You plant small seeds of suspicion but your posts don't seem to have much conviction to them.ZazieR wrote: How am I flying under the radar, bionicchop2?The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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You are going to need to rewrite this or rephrase it. I have no idea what you are trying to say.ZazieR wrote:He voted for his hunch while I didn't. I'm doubting, while he voted as if he was sure that X was using this as an excuse to fool the cop.
Your vote was a random vote and now you are trying to make it sound like it is there for a reason when you have never spoken directly about X's claim or shown any suspicion of it.
unvote Mr_Adams;vote zazier
Please clearly state your opinion of X and his claim of Miller. Also, please identify your top suspects and associated reasons.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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I guess I am confused as to why you haven't voted any of your top 3 suspects and you are holding dear to your random vote because he might be scum. You said the claim is a null tell, so why did you feel keeping the vote there was more valuable than applying pressure to your suspect?ZazieR wrote: Suspects I have right now:
Adams for his unvote.
Bionicchop2 as I didn't like your reason for voting Chaz.
q21 as I don't what to think of those links and his explanation afterwards of which I already gave a comment about.
You also are suspicious of me for my reasons for voting Chaz, but never mentioned it until now. Others asked about it when it first happened - as you normally do when you are suspicious of an action. Would this have ever come up if I didn't press you to list your top suspects and reasons? Why the delay from when it happened to you indicating any suspicion?The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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This isn't entirely true. My reason for thinking Mr_Adams was town was because I was suspicious of Chaz's vote on him. I voted Chaz because the reasoning given for the vote did not seem solid. This lead me to think Chaz was joining the largest wagon out of convenience. In reality, this could happen if Adams was scum too - if a partner thought they were going to get lynched anyway and wanted to make sure they voted early enough.ZazieR wrote: Bionicchop2 voted Chaz only because he assumed Adams is town.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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I am confused by your post.Farkshinsoup wrote:Seems like the Mr. Adams wagon is dissipating. That's too bad, cause he needs to die. I can't believe the "poor newbie" strategy is working. Funny how he's not so ready to die anymore - Hallelujah! He's come back to life! Maybe we can find his partner (or partners).
{snip}
And what happened to KOC? Ever since he exhorted us to lynch Adams right quick, he's disappeared. Right now he's my 2nd choice for stringing up. In fact,unvote, Vote: Knight of Cydonia. That Adams vote isn't doing anything right now, anyways.
{snip}
Adams is still my top lynch candidate, in case you hadn't guessed, and if anyone else wants to lynch him, I'm there.
- Adam's is top suspect
- KoC is 2nd for wanting to quickly lynch Adams (your top suspect)?
I find it slightly odd you would vote for the person your top suspect is voting for.
If you could outline your reasons for voting KoC, it would be nice. You may have some, but your post doesn't make it very clear what they are.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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Please enlighten us as to who does then. Start scum hunting. The failure to do such will convince me you rank up there with the worst townies on the site or you are scum. You have moved into my 2nd suspect spot.Mr_Adams wrote:Wow, Zazier is the highest for lynch? He really doesn't strike me as scum...The above written statement is pro-town.-
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This game seems to be leaning towards a game where the most active poster will get voted. It is a good strategy if you are trying to promote scum lurking.
I am not sold on the case against Xtoxm. The only way his defense of Adams would be 'chainsawing' is if they were partners. If that is the case, it makes little sense to unvote off the bigger wagon onto Xtoxm. Now scum sometimes defend town and I could see a case made there, but even that is a null tell since town defend town just as often and sometimes more often. Town even defend scum more than scum defends scum.
My current read on Xtoxm is a townie trying to be active in a lagging game. If the only topic moving is a discussion about Mr?Adams, the only way to stay active is to pick a side or try to generate some conversation about somebody else.
I just don't think a game that is lagging scum would be the ones pushing the pace and posting as frequently. Maybe a newbie would as anxious scum. I think scum would be on the other end of the spectrum - either not active at all (Y.C., TSN) or popping in to say they have been busy (fark, chaz). If scum chose to be active, I would suspect they would have moderate activity and then be waiting to jump on a hyperactive player if they said anything slightly off.
My hunch is we would have 1-2 scum in the 4 I listed above and the rest are playing the scavenger waiting for a some sort of town slip. Yes this is a very wide range, but the main point is I don't think scum would be posting more than they need to be right now. Could the top posters be scum? Sure they could, but I think they are less likely to be scum than others at this stage of the game.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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Possibly illogical, but illogical is not a scum tell in my book (unless the intent is clear and the intent is scummy). You can't assume every player knows how to make a logical argument as a skilled debater. This is usually not the case. Most people don't know when their arguments are illogical, or they wouldn't make them.X wrote:That Xtoxm defended was not my problem. As far as I can tell, his defense has been illogical.
Since right now I think you are town based on your miller claim (unless future actions convince me otherwise), I don't take issue with your vote on xtoxm. I just think the reasoning is a little off. Doesn't mean he can't be scum, but my current read is town.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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That is a pretty decent case KoC. He has shown suspicions outside of OMGUS in this game I think (TSN), but other similarities are definitely there.
I am going to need to read some town games of him.
I really like my vote on Zaz, but that wagon seems unlikely to move. Will start looking at alternate cases.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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actuallyunvoteI am not going to support a lynch of anybody while we have so many players severely lacking in their posting.
Y.C. has done nothing. Not to mention, his vote on Xtoxm is still the random vote on Xtoxm's predecessor. (last post on the 10th to announce V/LA from 12-16th)
SPN has done equally as little (last post on 10th)
Riceball is MIA (Last post on 19th)
Zazier disappeared once she voted Xtoxm and got everybody looking that direction. She has averaged 3 posts a day elsewhere on the site since she stopped posting here 7 days ago.
Mr Adams calls out someone for 'lurking' then goes on a 5 day absence finally popping back in to discuss the jester.
vote ZazierGoing back to my original hunch after this disappearing act.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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Or you could make it clear what questions are unanswered and comment on any events since the last time you posted several days ago.ZazieR wrote:For all those wondering why I haven't post much, I want to hear answers to my questions. From that point I can work and start cases.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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When I go 2 days in between posts, it generally means there is too much lurking going on as I generally find something to respond to in all of my games.
Any new games I join I am implementing a lynch all lurkers policy for d1 and I ask everybody else to start doing it too.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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I spoke with Haschel and I am going to stay in the game so I don't add to the inactivity of the game. Sorry about earlier, I am just frustrated. I play for fun and it really is not fun to be in a game like this one has been and I can't grasp the concept of playing a game where you do nothing.
I will look back at the game related stuff later. My intent is to re-vote zazier since Q21 has counter-claimed cop (I will wait for replacements to post). Some moderators are trying to break the meta of games only having 1 cop and putting 2 cops into play, but I thought zazier was scum prior to her claim. Q21 has played pro-town and I support the timing of the immediate counter claim.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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Read the whole thread and then try again.Mr_Adams wrote:
Q21, I know your not stupid enough to claim cop for no reason. I think your scum trying to make people think your a cop. In fact, I'm pretty well sure of it.q21 wrote:
No, my PM says I am "a" Cop, not "the" Cop. Doesn't change that I think Zazier's scum.Xtoxm wrote:@Cops, do your PM's imply at all that you are the only cop in town?
unvote Vote Q21The above written statement is pro-town.-
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I never called anybody else opportunistic. If you felt somebody was opportunistic, you should identify who they are and vote them. None of the votes on Xtoxm seemed opportunistic since he he has a play style that is confusing and generally picks up votes in all games I play with him.ZazieR wrote: Why vote Chaz for being opportunistic at the Adams wagon, but no vote for a different player being opportunistic at the xtoxm and my own wagon?
Nobody on your wagon is opportunistic because I think you are scum. If something happens to prove this wrong, I will take another look at the people who voted you.
Yes, there have also been many games with 1 cop I can link you to. The game you reference had time period which were activated at night and is nothing like this game. Q21 has played protown. You have not. If you are a real cop, then learn to be a more active player in future games.ZazieR wrote:And if someone of you should know that this happened before it's bionicchop2. In another game in which bionnicchop2 and I played, the PM's of the cops said also 'you're a cop' (mini 664 modded by incognito)The above written statement is pro-town.-
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To put it bluntly - your plan sucks X. Any result on Xtoxm would be WIFOM. To say that Zazier is town if Xtoxm comes up town is very, very, very flawed.
In my experience so far, the counter-claim has been telling the truth 100% of the time in any game I have played. Reasons for Zazier-scum to claim cop are simply to out a real cop on the way out as she was the most likely to be lynched. Also, there is a general tendency to let both claims live when done this early (I have made that mistake before and you are coming up with a plan now which leaves both alive).
What it comes down to is there is no advantage for scum to ever counter claim a cop. Finding the cop is a small victory on its own for scum, and they lose the advantage of knowing the cop if they are just giving up one of their own afterwards.
My vote will be on Zazier before deadline. There is nothing to gain by lynching anybody who didn't claim cop today.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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I used to agree with this, but no longer do. I think when you can isolate potential scum to a group of 2 people and give yourself a 50% shot of being correct (again barring a 2-cop game) you should always focus there. If there are 2 scum out of the remaining 10 players, you drop your chances to 20%. More importantly, you end up spending 2 days discussing the conflicting claims instead of 1 since you can't just drop the debate and look for 2 different scum and completely forget about the 2 cop claims. Finally, there is always a chance the scum who claimed cop has some sort of scum role where you don't want them to live another day. They could be a role cop, a role blocker, or something else that helps the scum out.Xtoxm wrote: Although, Bio - There can be. There are 3 scum, sometimes it's better to leave conflcting cop claims alive and get results (NOT on each other), and lynch someone else.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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We are waiting for replacements to have a chance to join and read. That is the only reason I am holding my vote off. I don't think a replacement is going to have much to say which will impact today's lynch, but it can't hurt to wait a few more days.Mr_Adams wrote:Zazzy is L-1. do we really want him lynched? I'll place the lynching vote if the rest of the town wants it, I just think to little has been said to hammer yet.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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You want me to re-answer the question I already answered? Or would you just prefer to do a better job of reading the thread?X wrote:
No - and we await your analysis.Knight of Cydonia wrote:Have I been replaced? If you haven't found one, mod, I'm back.
I still think ZazieR is scum, but I also want to see answers to her questions.FoS: bionicchop2, Mr_Adams, Xtoxm.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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I actually don't like either of those questions, especially coming from somebody who I think is scum. I outline my suspects as I see them and have been leaning more towards only stating the top 1 or 2 suspects as to not give scum ideas on who to kill / not kill at night.
As for 'building a case', that is a completely loaded question. The question makes it seem like I am stockpiling quotes waiting until I have enough to frame somebody as scum. When I am suspicious of someone's actions, I state it. If it is based on lack of productive activity, then naturally it would occur later as opposed to sooner.The above written statement is pro-town.-
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bionicchop2 Mafia Scum
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