Mini 680: Portlandia- Game Over!

[chazworthington]

I'm back. Sorry the limited access ran longer than expected.

First, I hope to have the complete Xtomx meta up by Saturday evening. Sorry for the delay.

@KoC, Ice, X and Fark: You are all pushing for an XtomX lynch very hard. With the exception of the cop's sanities, I'm seeing pretty much the same argument made against Mr. Adams. I'd like to hear from each of you why you believe you're correct this time. Further, I want to know who else you think is scum. Because if you're wrong about Xtomx, as I think you are, then we're at lylo tomorrow. Are none of you worried about that?

Note: I've listed these four in the order I feel they are pushing XtomX from hardest to lightest. If we have scum in this group my guess would be ice or KoC, although given how hard both of them are pushing I don't think both are.

[Farkshinsoup]

I'm still not convinced that disregarding their reports is a smart avenue to follow.

Why? Their sanities and their alignments are completely unreliable at this point - if we start giving weight to their investigations, we'll just be chasing our tails. Can you give me one good solid reason how it's pro-town for us to be wasting our time that way?

We need to scum hunt this game. The cops are basically a distraction until there is conclusive evidence of sanity.

QFT

Vote: icemanE

[Farkshinsoup]

simulpost - I've been vocal about why I suspected him in a few different posts (short answer - self-vote, no cases, just ad hominem atttacks, removal from game with imminent lynch, let's others defend him instead of defending himself). You can go back and read them or, if you still want me to summarize, you'll have to wait a while.

As far as my top suspect, it's ice right now (hence the vote), with KoC a close second (I remember how he was dying to lynch Adams early yesterday), Xtoxm is not cleared yet, (but I'm working from the assumption that he's town and trying to see who's pushing that wagon) why is he trying to push for lynching the (possibly insane) cop now that his wagon has gotten wobbly? Rice is still bugging me but short of waterboarding him, I'm not sure that there's much more I can get out of him

[Xtoxm]

Because GF is the insane/para cop, whichever of the two it is, Zaz is scum.

[icemanE]

What Xtoxm is currently discussing about probabilities and such of there being this cop or that cop is what I wanted to avoid by clearing them yesterday. But since we didn't we're in this giant outguess-the-mod mess. So I will attempt to understand what Xtoxm is trying to explain and think that over.

[bionicchop2]

What Xtoxm is currently discussing about probabilities and such of there being this cop or that cop is what I wanted to avoid by clearing them yesterday.

How would your plan have cleared anybody. A fake cop could claim any result on a miller in this game and nobody would know if they were telling the truth or not.

[icemanE]

We would have some basis other than lynching the player who the reports were on to decide if the cops were legit or not, that's how.

[X]

Oh, darn. Xtoxm, by being a pain, has made himself impossible to read. I read the three games that Fark read, and his meta is the same style in all three. The main remaining reason to suspect him is post 297, claiming to have been watching his own meta. I hate to leave him living, but it might be for the best.

Xtoxm, could you answer my question?

I'd really appreciate it if you'd try to be bearable, and respond to questions again.

Chaz: You may have missed it, but I asked you some questions a while back (603). Before I answer your question, I'd like to year your response first.

Still haven't heard an explanation of the icemanE wagon...

[Xtoxm]

I haven't been watching my own meta as such, I am simply aware of it. To me the differences are clear, and I have little/no control over it. I could accurately call my own alignment in all my games, I am sure, if say I someone didn't know my alignment...Impossible scenario but you get what I mean.

What question?

[X]

This question:

Meanwhile, Xtoxm, you said this to FIS.

Because you're one to talk about being anti-town

You say you're town? Do you want to help win? Explain what about FIS you think is scummy.

I haven't been watching my own meta as such, I am simply aware of it. To me the differences are clear, and I have little/no control over it. I could accurately call my own alignment in all my games, I am sure, if say I someone didn't know my alignment...Impossible scenario but you get what I mean.

That's pretty funny...mind telling us your scumtells?

[Xtoxm]

Nuu!

I would find it hard to name scumtells as such, it doesn't really work like that, but there are a few constant things across my play.

Anyway.

Yes, I am town. I garantee it.

Yes, but not with you lot acting like idiots...You seem to be listening now, so I will.

On the whole, FIS has looked town to me, but there are few scummy things he's done.

[bionicchop2]

Still haven't heard an explanation of the icemanE wagon...

Who I will vote for is my top suspect -

vote icemanE

. In reread, TSN had a very high ratio of scummy posts. icemanE replaced and was initially pro-town in my eyes, but I think the front he put up on D1 about concern for verifying sanities unraveled towards the end of the day and completely disappeared today. I think he smells blood in the water and is jumping on this xtoxm lynch.

Post analysis:

Post 20. Restates that claiming on D1 is the best practice. This was something that was already stated by at least one person. This is a fluff post (as much of his were)

27. Again states how claiming miller on day 1 is pro-town, but throws out the statement of how we can't give X a free pass and he could be scum.

70. Misrepresents Adam's reason for voting X (says he voted because he never saw the role before). Claims confusion about Adams. No vote still.

92. Fluff post. Answers an acronym question and then kind of agrees with someone while not exactly committing to anything.

165. Slips in on the Adam's wagon because his 'cases' are all OMGUS after being gone for a while

LARGE GAP - TSN fades away (left site) and delays in replacement. (null tell - just here for info)

504. Comment about no lynches on D1 never being good seems odd - there were enough active people and votes moving to get a lynch. Seems like a way to drop a vote on Adams without any reasons.

561- iceman thinks it would be a waste of time to lynch Xtoxm right now.

565- says Xtoxm is admitting to being scum. Seems to lament his vote. Votes xtoxm

592 - completely contradicts his play from the previous day. Takes the 2 guilty reports and uses them to guide his reasoning

(we debated this point for a while, so I am not identifying every post I disagreed with on the same topic and only counting it as a single scummy action instead of multiple).

Not sure what you are looking for really. As I said, I didn't point out every post because I don't highlight multiple items covering which are generally the same action I feel is scummy. There is no case against Xtoxm, but you aren't questioning that wagon. If anybody wants to back their vote up with a PbPa, it would definitely help.

[X]

I don't buy it as reason enough to lynch him. It seems that icemanE's actions could be easily enough explained by him being a townie. His change of heart about the guilties may have to do with two things if he is town:
1. That he's human, and Xtoxm being guilty fits into his current view of reality, so he is more willing to accept the evidence.
2. That because the town decided that it would be a waste to confirm sanities D1, he started thinking along the lines of, "Well, we can't confirm them, so this is as accurate as we're going to get."
This may be a misrepresentation of icemanE, but that's what I think could let him be town.

And yes, I am questioning the Xtoxm wagon. I just definitively got off of it (Post 657).

If anybody wants to back their vote up with a PbPa, it would definitely help.

QFT.

Yes, but not with you lot acting like idiots...You seem to be listening now, so I will.

On the whole, FIS has looked town to me, but there are few scummy things he's done.

Elaborate, please. This says practically nothing.

[bionicchop2]

I don't buy it as reason enough to lynch him.

Maybe you don't, but I haven't seen better reasons to lynch anybody else, making these the best reasons I can see right now. This makes him the most likely to be scum in my eyes, which is all I can go on.

[Xtoxm]

I don't buy it as reason enough to lynch him.

Maybe you don't, but I haven't seen better reasons to lynch anybody else, making these the best reasons I can see right now. This makes him the most likely to be scum in my eyes, which is all I can go on.

Zazier.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Care to put anything behind the name?

[Xtoxm]

No. Try reading the thread.

[Xtoxm]

I don't buy it as reason enough to lynch him. It seems that icemanE's actions could be easily enough explained by him being a townie. His change of heart about the guilties may have to do with two things if he is town:
1. That he's human, and Xtoxm being guilty fits into his current view of reality, so he is more willing to accept the evidence.
2. That because the town decided that it would be a waste to confirm sanities D1, he started thinking along the lines of, "Well, we can't confirm them, so this is as accurate as we're going to get."
This may be a misrepresentation of icemanE, but that's what I think could let him be town.

And yes, I am questioning the Xtoxm wagon. I just definitively got off of it (Post 657).

If anybody wants to back their vote up with a PbPa, it would definitely help.

QFT.

Yes, but not with you lot acting like idiots...You seem to be listening now, so I will.

On the whole, FIS has looked town to me, but there are few scummy things he's done.

Elaborate, please. This says practically nothing.

The way he blindly pushed me and refused to consider the possibility I was town, and not consider any other suspects for scum, was very scummy.

[icemanE]

Yeah, what X said basically explains my position and shift in view between yesterday and today. Clearly I had to change positions as it's too late to go by my original plan today.

[X]

Mod, please prod G-Force, Riceballtail, and ZazieR

.

Prods sent to the former and the latter.

[Riceballtail]

Not needed here, was working something out with the mods, and was distracting me from posting. Sorry.

I'll look over today's posting again and get some more up later.

[Farkshinsoup]

Sorry, guys, I'm hoping to have something substantial up by midweek.

[bionicchop2]

2. That because the town decided that it would be a waste to confirm sanities D1, he started thinking along the lines of, "Well, we can't confirm them, so this is as accurate as we're going to get."

What was done last night was the equivalent of what he was asking for. If you would have been investigated, we would have the same information we have now because nobody can confirm you as a miller.

Until a cop has 1 guilty and 1 innocent report, it is very hard to gain any clarity on what the reports mean.

I think the reports are nothing but a distraction at this point.

[X]

What was done last night was the equivalent of what he was asking for. If you would have been investigated, we would have the same information we have now because nobody can confirm you as a miller.

...

I think the reports are nothing but a distraction at this point.

Yeah, I agree. But I'm saying that it's an understandable (although incompletely thought-out) way of looking at it.

icemanE, what do you currently think, given the reliability of the Cop results and Xtoxm's (for lack of a better word) wacky meta?

I'll look over today's posting again and get some more up later.

Could you make it something long and substantive? You've consistently been lurking/posting little.

[chazworthington]

My schedule is blowing up again. I should be better after Wednesday. Apologies to all.

You were more interested in lynching RBT, who hasn't contributed, but could potentially be another living character on our side. So, what questions do you want answered by RBT?
And also, why haven't you asked them if you suspect him?

Sorry, missed this before. I was interested in lynching RBT D1 due to everyone's consensus that she's hard to read and lurks alot. I've got more to say here but it involves an on-going game and I want to check with the mod what I'm allowed to say versus what I'm not allowed to say. That and the town was focused on Adams at the time and I didn't believe him to be scum.

She was also a good candidate in the list of four because I believed Adams and XtomX to be town.

Those are the reasons I went after RBT D1. As for not asking questions, she's gotten lost in the triple cop claim/investigation. I'm more interested in asking questions to the people who I perceive are pushing the wagon.


That said, with respect to RBT, I would like to know what changed betwen posts 607 and 614, and only eight hours apart. 607 reads like she's pushing the XtomX wagon, and 614 has her listing Ice and KoC as possible scum. Why not mention that in 607? Nothing really happened between them.