Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[xRECKONERx]

/confirm

[xRECKONERx]

<3 Lost

[xRECKONERx]

Has everyone confirmed??

[xRECKONERx]

vote: canadianbovine

being canadian is bad enough..but being a cow too!?!?!?

[xRECKONERx]

*meese

Right? Or is it mooses. I'm so confuzzled.

[xRECKONERx]

That revote thing is very odd to me, especially for something that should've been a random vote. I also don't like how bovine is pushing hard for the answer to a (IMO) stupid question.

@CanadianBovine: you say his answer won't help us, but it will satisfy you. How will his answer honestly satisfy you in regards to this game? Wouldn't it be better to attempt to get real discussion rolling and not move into a holding pattern over something so insignificant?

[xRECKONERx]

bovine, I do not think your actions were some ultimate planned out thing.
In fact, I'm pretty sure they were just reactions, not plans. No way did you "mean to get discussion started" by doing this, and if you did, that's a horrible way to do it.

[xRECKONERx]

bovine, I do not think your actions were some ultimate planned out thing

I had not woken up today intending to unvote then revote to invoke discussion. That wasn't in my plan at all. In fact, you can say

I have no plan as of yet

.

Reckoner, don't you see what I've done? I have caused significant discussion out of insignificant discussion.

No hands should take nothing personal from the revote.

It has done its' job,

everyone magically appeared, and here we are.

See: bolded parts. You can't have no plans at all and be winging it, but also say that a specific action/choice you made has "done its job".

[xRECKONERx]

@CoCo:
Umm... so you actually think it's a problem that Conspicuous_other was "diverting" the discussion away from a joke vote debate?

[xRECKONERx]

^ I'm not.

Unvote

.
Yeah, it was scummy, but his explanation for it seems like something I'd actually do as town. I've misread a vote count before and dealt with shit because of it, and I see the same thing happening here.

[xRECKONERx]

Why would that be useful? Each person has their own uses for each thing:

Example, for me, a vote is placed where I feel the most suspicion lies at that moment. I only tend to use an FoS in two situations: either I already have a vote down, or I'm equally suspicious of multiple people.

I think applying pressure is sometimes more of a scumtell than a town tell. If you lay a case against someone or ask them a question and they dodge it, THEN maybe you can vote to "apply pressure". Otherwise I think it's a wishy-washy reason to place a vote.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't like wolf's play.

Vote: Wolframnhart

I have my reasons.

[xRECKONERx]

Certain posts from wolframnhart have struck me as funny. Maybe it's the way he tries to insinuate lobster here without much backing of his own. In my experience, the You're not adding to discussion argument is more often a scum trying to put a halfway decent bit of logic behind what he's saying rather than actually defend himself. It's an easy out. Then there's the obvious lobster was lurking bit when he wasn't really lurking, and then wolfram quickly retraces his steps. Yes, he never said lobster was lurking, but he implied it and attempted to use it to cast suspicion.

By the way, this is all from an iso read, I don't like to case-read through the whole topic. And I didn't want to reveal my reasoning because I was hoping to draw it out a little longer and see who would jump the gun in pushing a case against me simply because I withheld my reasons for voting. Not exactly sure where it says one must lay out every point against someone before voting for them. Especially if they've already been covered multiple times (which, upon re-reading a few other posts against wolf, I discovered it had already been pointed out).

Oh, and

FoS Milked Eek

for immediately hopping to a vote in his first post on me. Seem rather eager, hm?

[xRECKONERx]

Not a OMGUS, Eek, it's a "You're the only one who saw the opportunity to present a half-assed case against me and vote me and try to get a bandwagon started" FoS.

You voted me because you wanted me to explain myself; you also had no real case against me, other than "That post was scummy". Completely disregarded all my other posts. You just hoped that one post would catch fire and wind up having me lynched. So you're the one my "trap" ensnared.

Now while I sit on that FoS, I'll have to go back and re-read you and see exactly what's up.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't really know what I need to respond to after that re-read. All the constant quoting and whatnot confused me more than helped. If someone could lay out what they want me to respond to, I will.

I still feel like MME was just waiting for a chance to direct attention away from wolf, and jumped on the chance. Even if people felt like my post was scummy, they didn't immediately jump to voting me. He did.

[xRECKONERx]

Holy shit I'm L-2? Nice bandwagon.

In response to MME's post:

Acting upon scummy posts is pro-town. I do not think voting for someone without reasoning is insta-scumtell, but that could just be the people I've played with. (See my current Newbie 790 game with Ether). I wasn't looking at people who found my post suspicious - I was looking at people who saw it fit to jump on the chance to

vote

and not just

inquire

.

I can see now, though, how my FoS on MME would be considered OMGUS. And I can also see how me calling him out on his one post against me would be equivalent of him calling me out based on that one "scummy" post.

I don't see how else I can defend that.

[xRECKONERx]

First off,

unvote

. Second off, it's painstakingly obvious that my plan was flawed and didn't work out quite the way I had envisioned - most of it is in the way I handled my second response, but I digress.

The questions I saw:

What did your "trap" learn you by the way?

In retrospect, not much. At the time, I thought it had caused you to jump the gun. I

should

have held out a bit longer and seen who else jumped on the bandwagon, but I was too impulsive.

Why is your vote still on wolf if you've blown the cover on your 20/20 expose?

I actually forgot that I had left my vote on wolf. Apologies. Hence my unvote above.

Would you not agree that acting upon scummy posts is acting protown?

Yes, I would agree with that sentiment. Once again, I feel very foolish for not having thought out my trap well enough. There was another aspect to it - something about watching where the votes fell between myself and wolfram - but I didn't wait long enough.

So you are saying you withheld information knowing that it would make people vote for you?

Yes.

1) You accuse wolfram of not backing up his argument!!? It's funny that you're using this excuse when you posted the line "I have my reasons" and didnt explain your vote either. Especially when you try to explain yourself with this half-assed explanation that can be torn to shreds.
2) Typically that argument is correct in being a scum tell, but typically that's in a later day than day one when there is little to no concrete evidence.
3) I think you know how I feel about the lurking argument. Read page 9.

1) Yes, I know the blatant hypocrisy is there. Please read my above responses.
2) Like to use the word typically a lot, huh? I don't see why it should make any difference if it's a scumtell in D3 or a scumtell in D1. Scum tells are scum tells.
3) Okay.


I'd recommend a quick unvoting from someone. Because if I had to guess, I'd say this wagon on me is town-laden, meaning scum can swoop in for the kill any moment.

[xRECKONERx]

You know what? I just got put at L-1. I don't understand where all of this is coming from. Hey, qax, I went through and tried to pick out every last motherfucking question asked of me. Sorry I missed yours in the sea of unreadable bullshit. If you want me to answer it that much,

fucking quote the question

like I asked people to do

a very long time ago

.

When I designed my "trap" (late at night), the intention was that I would throw a vote down on wolf and judge the reactions to my reasonless vote. Gauge the responses. However, given the quick responses to it and my immediate "reveal" of the plan, I didn't have a chance to let it play out. Of course, maybe I should have, since NOW I'm at L-2 and there's no chance of me gaining any insight from this.

I wanted to let it play out... see who started voting me just because of the one scummy post, and see who actually pursued legitimate cases. Seriously though. I'd like anyone with a vote on me to actually lay down a case instead of "YOU'RE DODGING QUESTIONS!!11!1!!11!" and "NICE REASONLESS VOTE!!11!1!!11". Because my play up until then had been very conservative, and I promise you there isn't much content to any of the votes against me right now. This is the very definition of a flimsy bandwagon.

[xRECKONERx]

Time for a claim:

I'm a "Mafia Hitman", basically since this is reverse mafia, I'm a town vig.

[xRECKONERx]

Psst, DRK, I'm not dodging anything. I've answered all questions asked of me. I'll answer more if you throw them my way.

But I highly suggest the town (Mafia majority) keep their hitman (Mafia vig) alive.

[xRECKONERx]

* flavor but don't quote
- Basically, when everyone handed over their guns, I remained loyal to the mafia but didn't feel as comfortable handing my gun over like everyone else. My gun still had five bullets left over in it from the last job. So it says I'm going to deal with the anti-mafia agents the same way I deal with people in my normal job: by hunting them down.

* who are your suspects at the moment
- Hmm, I'd need to re-read before I make a decision on that. I've been so busy simply defending myself that I haven't had time to process everything.

* any oddities among the persons on the wagon?
- I don't like nohand's spot on the wagon, considering NHT's previous votes. He unvoted his random vote too quickly, then jumped over to CB and held there for awhile, then once the CB case kinda died off he quickly switched to CDB, then went the safe route and FoS'd me, only to quote himself later and upgrade it to a vote while giving the out of (If you explain yourself, I'll gladly downgrade). And since the claim, I haven't heard from him.

I need to do a full re-read now. Will also be beneficial for my night action.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd like Wickedest to explain why he has his vote on C_o right now.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm also rather curious about what my "five shots" thing means.
Certainly that doesn't mean that there are five scum and seven town, does it? That seems waaaaay too one-sided.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, look. He isn't elaborating on his views either. >.>

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah I'm with CDB, this current train of thought is getting us nowhere.

[xRECKONERx]

@Wickedestjr:

Why did you feel the need to random vote CDB, then go off and also joke/random vote CB? Was one random vote not enough?

Furthermore, if your CB vote was random/joking, then why did you see it fit to defend it? A defense for a random vote should just be that it's a random vote: it seems to me like you're overreaching.

Also, direct contradiction:
CB's revote is scummy
versus
CB's revote isn't suspicious

Let me throw your own question back at you... did you NOT find my reasonless vote on Wolf suspicious?

Time to break down this big daddy.

Okay, this I agree with.

Did that really not cross your mind?

This makes me want to vote for wolf more.

Straws: you grasp at them. Someone saying that they like the fast-paced-ness of a game or something is hardly reason for a vote. Speaking of which... why exactly DID you want to vote for wolf?

So you are saying you withheld information knowing that it would make people vote for you?

Once again, when everyone else was all over my ass about the situation, you stayed neutral and just tossed me an occasional question. Why did you try to distance yourself from me?

Huh?!? So you're saying that Reckoner seems town because of an unintelligent post. That doesn't seem right.

And yet you're not even FoSing me or voting me after you've had ample time to see just how scummy my actions were... yet you say:

Wow... I think you win the reward for least helpful contribution in the game.

Vote: Conspicuous_other

First of all I wasn't really defending him, I was just wondering what was wrong with withholding information.

Then CDB gave me a good reason and I agreed with him, and now reckoner is currently one of the most suspicious people of my list of suspicions.

Could you please answer the question that I asked in one of my previous posts?

...once again, then why am I not getting an FoS or a vote from you at that point?

Speak up, son.

Vote: Wicked

[xRECKONERx]

You could give your opinion on my previous post.

[xRECKONERx]

Psst, Wicked, you've got a vote sitting on you already. Let's respond, yeah?

[xRECKONERx]

@Wicked: Maybe you're just blind, but I've defended whatever it is that is keeping you from unvoting me already. Probably a dozen times. In fact, you've no real reason to be voting for me, aside from the fact that I made a vote without giving reasoning and thus screwed up my ill-conceived "trap".

Can you

please

respond to my most recent post? Particularly the one where I voted you.

[xRECKONERx]

^ I also want to hear CDB's response. Good catch, DRK.

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't say I was a cop, did I?
Pay attention, please.

FoS CoCo

for not having any suspicions on anyone or any opinions whatsoever. With this much content, it's entirely absurd to not have an opinion on anyone at this point. Oh, right. Except for DRK, and that suspicion just seems like a OMGUS waiting to happen.

[xRECKONERx]

I still think that canadianbovine's revotes and unvotes for the same person scummier, so my vote remains on him/her.

I never said that I thought the revote was scummy.

And how is that not claiming that CB's revote/unvote is scummy, which you just said you didn't do?

[xRECKONERx]

I will say this:

I will only kill at night if I'm positive on someone's scumminess.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah.

I mean unless we have a Doc, I'm probably gone tonight anyway. I'm no good at math so I'll bow out of the calculations debate.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, it

is

scummy for you to ask whether the vig is killing or not. He can claim any kills in the morning.

Meanwhile, knowledge of whether he is killing or not can help a potential scum roleblocker to decide whether he needs to target Reckoner at night or can afford to try and target someone he thinks might be a cop or doctor.

Seriously, people.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

QFT

[xRECKONERx]

Pro town people don't have to point out that they're pro town.

[xRECKONERx]

Pro town players don't need to say they're pro town. They just show it via actions. Which I'm not sure if you've done or not, I'd need to do an iso read.

[xRECKONERx]

Still can't believe Wicked hasn't responded yet.

[xRECKONERx]

I'd like to ask that everyone on the whole try to be more active, or if you can't, replace out.

[xRECKONERx]

CoCo, please give concrete evidence as to why your suspect qax, wicked, and lobster. Telling us to go back and find it for ourselves is not being supportive by any means. like I said before CITE INFORMATION. And dont call Wicked out on his bad responses when yours are just as bad.

Missed this post. As I've said before, its a forum issue and I'm new to the site. If I had a way to flat out link posts I would not ask people to dig up the posts I refer to. I can only quote one at a time. I'm sure as I get used to the forums here, I will become a better player when it comes to software. For now, those of you familiar with these boards would do well to look into the allegations I bring.

Please trust me for now when I say I am pro-town. All I can do at this point is observe.

You can link to posts. In the top-left corner of each post, there is a little page icon. Click it and it'll isolate the post. Then you can just copy/paste the URL.

[xRECKONERx]

Hey, CoCo...

You've been saying for awhile now that you're "busy with qax" and his posts. Mind sharing with us what you discovered?

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote, Vote CoCo

[xRECKONERx]

CoCo is a weird case. Sure, it's a slightly different playstyle, and I think that's accentuated some of the friction going on here. I don't like the "you have to trust me, I am pro-town" post(s), they just sound a little forced, but I think his case on Wicked has some merit.

You mean my case on Wicked that he pretty much parroted?

[xRECKONERx]

I still think Wicked and CoCo deserve further investigation. I'd like to hear EVERYONE's opinion on them at the moment.

[xRECKONERx]

Cooooooooooool.

[xRECKONERx]

Okay, mod, when is deadline?

[xRECKONERx]

Please do not hammer CoCo. In fact,

Unvote

, bitches. I have a sneaking suspicion we've missed something. I'm going to go back and re-read the wagon leading up to my claim, I feel we missed something big there.

[xRECKONERx]

CoCo needs to claim or I'll hammer.

[xRECKONERx]

Because I'm tired of how long Day 1 is. I went back and re-read, and I'm down for a Wicked or a CoCo lynch today.

[xRECKONERx]

Shit. Vig AND Cop out on D1? Not. Good.

We need a mass unvoting, and we need to figure out who is driving these wagons to L-1 for the claims. I was never confident on the CoCo wagon. Also, quick look shows:

Vote Count:

xRECKONERx – 5 (My Milked Eek,

lobstermania

, Conspicuous_other,

DeathRowKitty, nohandtyper

)
Wolframnhart – 1 (ChannelDelibird)
Wickedestjr - 1 (wolframnhart)
DeathRowKitty – 1 (CoCo)
Conspicuous_other – 1 (Wickedestjr)
qax42 – 1 (canadianbovine)


Not voting:

qax42, xRECKONERx

Vote Count:

CoCo – 6 (

nohandtyper

,

DeathRowKitty, lobstermania

, Wickedestjr, ChannelDelibird, canadianbovine)
canadianbovine – 1 (qwints)
Wickedestjr – 1 (CoCo)


Not voting:

ryan2754, Conspicuous_other, My Milked Eek, xRECKONERx

Notice the bold. Three people who were on both wagons to lead up to the two claims. NHT, DRK, and lobster.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't like how CoCo hasn't provided flavor, actually. I don't know how I feel about this "Mafia Spy" business... but I'd feel much safer with a Wicked, NHT, or lobster lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

I considered putting you on there, but for some reason I've gotten a very pro-town vibe from you throughout the game. I cannot say the same for NHT or lobster.

[xRECKONERx]

I've... never voiced my opinion on Wicked?

lololololololololwut

[xRECKONERx]

>.>

Really?
My gut is giving me an odd read on lobster; will go back and re-read for more sometime tonight.

[xRECKONERx]

I find it very suspicious how quickly lobster FoS's CB, then when put under any pressure from it, immediately reels back and unvotes from a FoS? It just doesn't add up. Either A, he thought he had VOTED CB and accidentally unvoted, or B, he was actually unvoting his random vote... and I don't see why one would unvote a random vote unless you had somewhere else to place your vote. He eventually votes for CB, but only after regurgitating discussion points as his case.

In fact, lobster seems to lay out his own plan as to why he took the hard route. Set things up with an FoS to see if the CB case caught fire, then under the least bit of pressure, upgrade it to a vote. Oh, and let's not forget at the end of this post when he triumphantly declares: "My vote on CB remains." Good for you.

Oh... and how would this be remotely useful? It wouldn't. It would simply distract from scumhunting.

Let's not forget how he dives head-first into the wagon on me, justifying it by saying "there's no way it was a fake vote; why are you still voting wolf?" Note that his previous post stated that he was a bit concerned with me, but was overall MORE concerned with CDB. So why the SUDDEN switch of opinion?

This exchange between qax and lobster is odd.

His next move is to vote CoCo, after not saying word one about CoCo up until this post. Oh, and his justification is that it is a "WIFOMy mess". Really, lobster? You have to do better than that. I guess this is his attempt to further explain his bandwagony vote, but I'm not buying it. He seems too "padded"... too "nice"... too "I don't want to stick out with my case against CoCo".

Given the above, I'm going to

Vote: Lobster

. Let's see where this goes.

[xRECKONERx]

How's that for relevant posts? Lobster has not only been on those bandwagons, but has generally hopped on without drawing much attention to himself and, in my opinion, has tried to fly too far under the radar the entire game.

[xRECKONERx]

Or, you know, I

actually found lobster scummy

.

Since I kinda was the first person to point out lobster's placement on all three wagons and such. To me, CoCo just seems like a frustrated town PR... she claimed, and yet people are still wasting time homing in on her, so I can see where her frustration comes from. That being said, of course she could've fake claimed, but her claim sounds reasonably believable to me.

There's a quick fix for the CoCo situation: if there's a real cop, investigate her, and see what turns up. Otherwise, there's no point in lynching a claimed town power role. ESPECIALLY not on Day 1.

[xRECKONERx]

*gender correction in my post

What're your thoughts on my case against lobster, CDB?

[xRECKONERx]

More like: Day 1 has been going on for almost three weeks now, and I think we have

more

than enough information to make an informed lynch. I'm sick of stalling out, and lobster's who I'm going with.

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't really see him go after lobster. What post are you referring to?

He quoted the post from lobster that most caught my eye as well and asked you to read between the lines. He pretty much just said that we have three good candidates that deserve investigation.

[xRECKONERx]

I did read the fucking game. Guess I just missed it, seemed more of a one-offish comment. It's a moot point, now, but now that we have time to kill:

@lobster: respond to my case, pl0x

@CoCo: why the hell did you bring up lobster's scumtells then never explain them for yourself?

[xRECKONERx]

Yes. We did. But now it seems you and I are the only people online, hence my "we have time to kill" bit.

[xRECKONERx]

I... completely endorse CoCo's post.

CoCo: what is your read on lobster?

[xRECKONERx]

Then join me in lynching lobster. Because now, nobody has any reason NOT to comment on my lobster views.

[xRECKONERx]

So, wait:

You're not responding now because it's late, or you're not responding now because you want to hear what lobster has to say first? You gave two contradicting reasons for not responding in one post.

[xRECKONERx]

But you're on to respond to my post 10 minutes later?

*rolls eyes*

[xRECKONERx]

He did say he noticed it before I did, but just didn't point it out.

[xRECKONERx]

@Mod: That's too long. That will make D1 over a month long. I suggest a deadline of exactly one month, aka July 11th.

[xRECKONERx]

@NHT: I'm a little confused as to why you brought up Wicked's meta?

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah. Meta is basically your "play style" consistency throughout other games.

[xRECKONERx]

Exactly... how is my case flimsy, again?

::eyeroll::

Great logic there, chief.

[xRECKONERx]

I really still have a gut feeling about lobster. Take a look back at his posts for yourself. However, if we're

not

going to lynch lobster, I'd really like to see a CASE laid out against someone else, not just "Hey, this person, cuz they're scummy".

[xRECKONERx]

I haven't paid much attention to CB, but I'll give him a consideration and do a skim solely to evaluate his scumminess.

[xRECKONERx]

It's too late and I'm too tired to even begin to describe how horrible lobster's defense is, but I'll just say... when the FUCK did I ever say I'm just pushing for a lynch and I don't care who it is? Nice job of putting words in my mouth, lobscum. Oh, and lobster... please provide examples of other games where you've participated. I want to meta your "I always FoS then upgrade to a vote" claim.

Oh, also, you probably should've posted WHY you were voting CoCo when you voted him instead of ignoring him the entire game up until that post then laying down a vote out of fucking nowhere.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm not making scumlists on D1.

However, something just caught my eye:
Wicked says lobster's responses satisfied him so he unvotes after nobody bites on the lobster case. I still think lobster is scum. CDB calls my case... what was it... oh yeah, "utter bullshit" (go jump off a bridge, by the way). Anyway, what was really scummy was how lobster was under fire from Wicked for so long, then he just randomly has a change of heart and says "his defense satisfied me". I still think lobster is scum, but I think Wicked has played much, much scummier.

Vote: Wicked

See: my previous case on Wicked for more support. I'll provide a further case if requested, but I think anyone should be able to see why.

[xRECKONERx]

Oops, my bad.

Unvote, Vote Wicked

[xRECKONERx]

Good.

[xRECKONERx]

FoS for sure, but I'm still not fully convinced about placing a vote on him. Am I missing anything?

Why don't you figure that out for yourself?

[xRECKONERx]

That was the hammer?

Hallelujah. About time.

[xRECKONERx]

Hmm. Odd.

[xRECKONERx]

Nah. I'm good.
Doesn't seem relevant.

[xRECKONERx]

Eh, why not, I'm jacked up on coffee.

-Why are you concerned that he removed his random vote while actually being on someone's case? I think he should have immediately voted, yes, but I've learned from experience that that's a null tell regarding playstyle rather than a scumtell for disagreeing with me on mafia theory.

Except it wasn't just that he didn't vote, it was that the unvote seemed pointless.

-I actually think lobster's stance was reasonable, considering that at the time of his FoS it was just CB's weird unvote/revote, and since then he began to take credit for starting discussion. Increased weird behaviour -> upgrade FoS to vote. makes sense.

I don't.

-182 is an issue, however.

But let's just ignore it and sweep it under the rug, right?

-Reckoner, you miss the crucial point that in between lobster's 230 and 237 was your 234, which was, not to put too fine a point on it, bullshit. Seeing as you've long since admitted that your "trap" and the reasoning behind it was rubbish, it's a bit rich of you to suggest that lobster is scummy for finding your terrible case on MME (and yet the lack of vote for him despite your apparent conviction in your trap) scummy.

- I think it was rather opportunistic, in any case.

-275 might be worth looking at if at some point lobster or qax flips scum. Not now.

- It's still odd, don't you agree? She corrected lobster and he apologized.

-lobster's 408 is his first post after CoCo gets into the "I'm VERY pro-town" muddle, which WAS scummy, so it seems reasonable for lobster to then vote for him. You fail at context.

- So I guess "WIFOMy mess" is an acceptable reason to vote someone, right? ::eyeroll::

[xRECKONERx]

I shot lobster.

[xRECKONERx]

I don't understand why CoCo is still alive, actually.

[xRECKONERx]

End of D1 vote count. Town (Mafia) names are highlighted in green. Just doing this so I can clearly see it:

Vote Count:

Wickedestjr – 7 (

ChannelDelibird

, DeathRowKitty, xRECKONERx, CoCo,

lobstermania

, ryan2754, nohandtyper)
nohandtyper – 1 (qwints)
canadianbovine – 1 (

Wickedestjr

)


Not voting:

Conspicuous_other, My Milked Eek, canadianbovine

Methinks I need a serious reread now that both lobster & wicked are gone.

[xRECKONERx]

Responding to all questions about my kill:

I killed lobster because he was the person I found scummiest D1 after Wicked. I considered killing NHT too, but I thought in the end we'd benefit more from lobster being dead due to the mixed read I was getting on him.

Also, I'm suspicious of CoCo's "Aha! I was roleblocked!" bit. Seems like if he fake-claimed cop on D1 this would be a perfect time to whip out the "Ah, roleblocked" claim. But then again, it's entirely possible (and likely) that there is a scum RB who blocked CoCo with that intention in mind.

And I don't remember giving a list yesterday... o_O...

[xRECKONERx]

*waits*

[xRECKONERx]

Because I'm not progressing until I hear Starbuck's full analysis.

[xRECKONERx]

^ No.

You can't do that when you've already got enough votes on you.

[xRECKONERx]

Why the FOS on MME, CoCo?

[xRECKONERx]

@Starbuck: I changed my mind because I wanted to know why CoCo hadn't claimed yet when he should have. I don't think I would've actually hammered, I just wanted a claim... in retrospect, that sucked, because we outed another town "power role". The biggest problem here is that it's entirely possible that the Cop was blocked by a RB... but it's also entirely possible that CoCo bullshitted the claim and will continue to claim RBed unless we manage to lynch the RBer. This would also mean that there is an unclaimed cop, and it's a dangerous situation for them to come forward right now.

I don't know what to make of DRK or NHT anymore. I think NHT has appeared scummier, but the speed with which the wagon on NHT formed D2 bothers me.

[xRECKONERx]

DRK, I really don't get your gun-jumping vote on Starbuck. You have a problem with her wanting a claim, and so suddenly she's your best vote? Really?

[xRECKONERx]

Vote: DRK

Until I get a rational explanation for the vote on Starbuck. I don't like it, and DRK has been catching my eye for awhile now.

[xRECKONERx]

Pretty much since I saw his placement on the main wagons D1, I started watching him. When I wasn't paying much attention to him, I got a major town read. Now that I'm paying closer attention, I'm seeing more scummy behavior.

[xRECKONERx]

I really really really really like bovinescum.

[xRECKONERx]

Scum:
Quints (lurking)
CB (obviously; see PBPA)
DRK (too bandwagon-happy)

Neutral:
Ryan (hasn't contributed anything)
NHT (Hammered D1, among other things, but still gives me a neutral read somehow)

Town:
MME (despite me pushing a case on him earlier, I get a town vibe)
Starbuck (the only replacement to do anything of worth, and has contributed a lot)

[xRECKONERx]

Also, I know it's not helpful to do setup speculation, but what are standard scumteam numbers in a game this size?

[xRECKONERx]

So... if we don't hit scum today, that means if I kill tonight and scum kills tonight, we're at LyLo tomorrow?

[xRECKONERx]

Holy shit, that entire post by Ryan was just horrible.

Unvote
Vote Ryan

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, but I was able to sift through it. Actually, I'd like to see you point to a few of DRK's "scummy" posts. I know it has been asked of me, but since you took the time to respond to that entire post, I figure you can spare the time to actually point out his scumminess if he is, in fact, scummy.

[xRECKONERx]

I knew someone would read it like that.

[xRECKONERx]

Scum:
Quints (lurking)
CB (obviously; see PBPA)
DRK (too bandwagon-happy)

Neutral:
Ryan (hasn't contributed anything)
NHT (Hammered D1, among other things, but still gives me a neutral read somehow)

Town:
MME (despite me pushing a case on him earlier, I get a town vibe)
Starbuck (the only replacement to do anything of worth, and has contributed a lot)

Sorry, totally forgot to put CoCo on (I was going off of his list when I made mine). I'd probably put CoCo in the Neutral category, because his claim is in NO WAY confirmed, and he's done a pretty equal amount of scummy and pro-town things in my eyes.

The reason I have yet to give

my

reasons for suspecting DRK is because of that post from CoCo. I know it seems hypocritical, but I don't like how he is basically trying to say "Yeah, DRK's scummy!" just like I did without giving any reasons... just like I did. Makes it seem more like buddying up to my suspicions than it does him actually having legitimate concerns about DRK.

[xRECKONERx]

How about:

I killed lobster because I'm vig and that's my prerogative. I was killing him to prove I was right.

I wasn't.

[xRECKONERx]

Ryan's recent post makes me "Hmm...".
Need time to think and process properly. It's too late now to sift through a giant wall o' text. Though, just from what caught my eye, he's re-bringing-back-up the whole DRK-on-every-wagon thing and attempting to make it look like earnest scumhunting. Yet...

Unvote

And I went after lobster for reasons I clearly stated in my case against him. Someone (don't remember who) didn't like my case and called it bullshit. I rather liked my case, actually. Oh, and since it makes no goddamn sense to lynch a un-counterclaimed vig, I think we could move on to much more important matters.

FoS DRK

for pushing what is, in my opinion, a stupid line of logic to follow.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, and:

XrX - slightly suspicious based on a few votes without reason. Could possibly see SK. Also don't like how he is trying to get CoCo to state his suspicions without giving his own. Suspicious based on reasons noted by DRK in 1032.

::eyeroll::

[xRECKONERx]

Yes, I would've gone after lobster even if I hadn't been told to kill "no matter what".

[xRECKONERx]

Psst, I believe I was the original one to refer to LyLo.

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't have a "case" on him, I just said a few things had caught my eye. Such as:

Setting up tomorrow's mislynch today.

or

His flimsy vote on Starbuck.

I'm not willing to support a DRK lynch, though. I'm much more interested in investigating qwints.

[xRECKONERx]

But let's be honest: what's the point of even asking that question? I'm not going to go "Yeah, you're right, guys! You got me! I'm a SK." if I was one. So it's just a stupid, go-nowhere question. We can discuss this more later, but I'd really like to hear from qwints. It's been awhile.

[xRECKONERx]

What the fuck @ CB's votehopping.

Guys, my router got fried by this awesome lightning storm, so I can't really post anything of content until tomorrow nightish. I'm on my iPod touch right now.

[xRECKONERx]

^ Excuse me? Anyone can sit around and toss off random "observations" with little backing evidence. How about giving some rationale as to WHY you believe CoCo's claim over mine? WHY is NHT "very" likely to be scum? Are you saying you think there's a CB/NHT scumteam?

Blegh.

Unvote, Vote: Qwints

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, for someone who was more suspicious of my claim than CoCo's, I'd like to know why you decided to check him over me.

[xRECKONERx]

As much as I really really wanted to lynch qwints,

unvote

. If we're going to believe all the PR claims:

ryan2754
canadianbovine (Doc)
nohandtyper
qwints (Lawyer)
DeathRowKitty
Starbuck
My Milked Eek
CoCo (Cop)
xRECKONERx (Vig)

This would mean a lynch of either ryan/NHT/DRK/Starbuck/MME would need to happen today. I can go ahead and tell you I'm not going to support a Starbuck lynch or a MME lynch for the time being, and given my re-read of DRK, I'm not entirely supportive of a DRK lynch. I'm going to have to do an iso read on both ryan and NHT to make my decision.

[xRECKONERx]

Damn, we're two claims away from knowing who the possible mafia is. Although, tonight is not going to be pretty with all of our PRs out in the open.

Interesting.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, I'm going to assume that one of the claims so far are b/s. It's hard to prove a Doc claim; and I'm a little pissed that CoCop got blocked, because it makes things drastically harder. In either case, if we hit scum today or don't (I'd say our chances are pretty good), we can verify the validity of at least one of these claims tomorrow.

[xRECKONERx]

Qwints should have my "Mafia Hitman" role listed, then. That should be enough to verify that I'm actually a Mafia Hitman and not a third party role. In either case, I'm definitely seeing the logic in DRK/NHT voting together/not voting each other. I think this deserves to be looked at, and out of the two, as of now, I prefer a NHT lynch.

[xRECKONERx]

I think, for the benefit of town, we can do without investigating my role tonight. Let's look at it logically:

Even if I was a SK, I'd be more concerned with offing scum than offing townies. Scum are my direct opposition, and with just one extra kill on D3, it's not like I'm going to win with that.

If I'm vig, well, then it's obviously a waste to check it on me. We can do a check on me the next night. Tonight, I'd want to get a check done on the Doc claim.

[xRECKONERx]

Additionally:

If there is an unclaimed Doc, there's nothing they can do to reveal bovine's claim without outing themselves. If there's an unclaimed vig, they can just NK me. Right now it's important to keep the Doctor hidden, if bovine's claim is false.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure of this:

Vote: NHT

[xRECKONERx]

Unofficial vote count:

DeathRowKitty – 2 (CoCo, ryan2754)
nohandtyper – 3 (qwints, canadianbovine, xRECKONERx)


Not voting:

DeathRowKitty, My Milked Eek, nohandtyper, Starbuck

[xRECKONERx]

Because I'm convinced that there's scum out of either you or DRK, and given an iso read on DRK, I'm not convinced he's scum, while the others' cases on you tend to sway me your way.

[xRECKONERx]

NHT:

We have Vig, Doctor, Cop, and Lawyer out in the open. Nothing you have could be THAT top secret.

[xRECKONERx]

What. The. Fuck. Starbuck.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that CB is, in fact, the real doctor. Qwints' claim is kind of, well, odd. Odd in the sense that it could be either a pro-Mafia or anti-Mafia alignment. I could see the Lawyer thing being an advantageous role to the anti-Mafia forces, somehow. I also don't like how he chose to investigate the Doctor instead of the Hitman. I suggested it yesterday, so now that helps me out since the Doc claim was confirmed, but the rest of the town is left scratching their heads about my alignment.

I'm willing to hunt for the remaining two scum out of DRK/MME/Starbuck. Already did an iso read of DRK and really didn't see anything but pro-town behavior, so if someone has anything to point out, that'd be just peachy. MME is townish, but more of a neutral read at this point. Still haven't done an iso on Starbuck, though yesterday I

refused

to lynch her.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, also:

I was given an extra bullet. WHY would someone give me an extra bullet when I'm already a vig?
And... fuck yeah, dead scum

[xRECKONERx]

Holy fucking shit, I'm not SK!

FoS Qwints

for refusing to check my role last night, then pushing for a lynch on me the next day. I'm not liking that, and I'm also not liking CB's "let's get a move on" mentality, either. Also, look at how DRK has pretty much mysteriously disappeared. Starbuck's bullet claim is legit, as I was given a bullet last night. Not that I needed one, because I still have three bullets remaining from my original five from my claim (the PM I received said so).

A massclaim is what we need, and we need it now. DRK? MME? Care to join in on the fun?

[xRECKONERx]

I think DRK's claim is bullshit, tbqh. And did I miss the MME claim?

[xRECKONERx]

I think all the scum were given fakeclaims, so it being on qwints' list makes no difference unless he checks to see if they're still alive.

[xRECKONERx]

That plan confused me, so...

What if you're all wrong (like you are) and I'm a vig and not SK?

[xRECKONERx]

That makes sense. I'm down.
However, if either DRK or MME are not town, I'm thinking Qwints/CB.

Vote: DRK

[xRECKONERx]

I'm gonna go ahead and ask... if MME is the bomb, and I die, does that put town in LyLo or MiLo tomorrow?

[xRECKONERx]

MiLo = Mislynch & Lose

By the way, is there not one role that hands out guns and another that hands out bullets?

[xRECKONERx]

Awesome game, everyone.
Told you I wasn't a SK
I think MME gets my award for best scum, because even after I played my "trap" D1 and ensnared him (SEE I TOLD YOU ALL IT WORKED) I still didn't see him as scum. Even when I sent the Vig Kill last night I was thinking "Oh well, MME isn't it, but at least I'm doing as told."

[xRECKONERx]

Scum bussing would have been helpful in this game.