Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[ChannelDelibird]

CoCo is a weird case. Sure, it's a slightly different playstyle, and I think that's accentuated some of the friction going on here. I don't like the "you have to trust me, I am pro-town" post(s), they just sound a little forced, but I think his case on Wicked has some merit.

I'm still waiting on either old or new wolfram to turn up, and still waiting for qax's catch-up. I'm still wary of the latter's comments regarding the Reckoner claim.

[lobstermania]

Mod:

I will have limited access this weekend. I will be back for sure on Monday, but I'll see if I can log on before then. Sorry folks.

[Wickedestjr]

CoCo, please give concrete evidence as to why your suspect qax, wicked, and lobster. Telling us to go back and find it for ourselves is not being supportive by any means. like I said before CITE INFORMATION. And dont call Wicked out on his bad responses when yours are just as bad.

Missed this post. As I've said before, its a forum issue and I'm new to the site. If I had a way to flat out link posts I would not ask people to dig up the posts I refer to. I can only quote one at a time. I'm sure as I get used to the forums here, I will become a better player when it comes to software. For now, those of you familiar with these boards would do well to look into the allegations I bring.

Please trust me for now when I say I am pro-town. All I can do at this point is observe.

You could post reasons why you are suspicious of all the people you are suspicious of, and give the post numbers as the evidence.

@NHT - I am not voting CoCo because he is voting me. I am voting him because first he says "I'm very pro-town" and then when DRK pointed out that CoCo was suspicious of most of the people that were voting him, that's what really convinced me. I am not sure if I want him lynched, but I do want some answers from him.

So, are you pro-town?
Because a lot of info will be gathered with your response...

Yes I am pro-town.

However, I don't like the fact you put a vote on me when we have an obvious target that not only contradicted them self but still hasn't given a sufficient reason as to why the term 'think' was used.

What is wrong with the reason I have already given?

As for you, I feel that you're waiting until the majority decides to lynch, in which case you'll vote and say, "Lol, I knew they were scum all along." Am I correct? Maybe not, but that doesn't mean I need to post about it.

What makes you think this? Can you please point out some post numbers that bring you to this conclusion.

[Wickedestjr]

My last few posts were the result of not having enough sleep.

Oh of course.

[DeathRowKitty]

CoCo is a weird case. Sure, it's a slightly different playstyle, and I think that's accentuated some of the friction going on here. I don't like the "you have to trust me, I am pro-town" post(s), they just sound a little forced, but I think his case on Wicked has some merit.

Do you believe that his going after everyone who suspects him is part of his playstyle too? How about more or less refusing to answer anything until he has 4 votes on him and has been asked several times?

Why I think DRK is scummy:
Whenever I read one of DRK's posts, I feel a sense of urgency radiating from them. As though the player is trying to lynch someone as soon as they can in order to bring on the night. It seems as though DRK is more than willing to lynch anyone. Because I feel this way, I'm led to the following conclusions; 1. The player has a night action and, being new to Mafia, is excited about it. 2. Or, the player is scum. Scum often enjoy bandwagons and quick lynches. So long as the player being lynched isn't a fellow scum (and even in some situations, they could be), its viewed as acceptable.
Basically, I view DRK as scum because he pursues any seemingly obtainable lynch.

If you look back, the only player I was trying to push to a lynch was Reckoner and I definitely wasn't the only one. I wanted pressure on CB because I wasn't satisfied with his explanations and thus far that's a large part of the reason I'm voting you.

You may have noticed I do a fair amount of posting and I had the time to read through (fine, I skimmed one) two mafia games that I've mentioned (plus two more I read because they were interesting). The point I'm making is that I have a lot of spare time, plenty of time to look through posts I don't like and to make an informed decision. If someone appears scummy, I have no problem voting that someone. There's a difference between looking to lynch anyone and everyone and looking to lynch people you think are scum. I'm looking to lynch people I think are scum.

[DeathRowKitty]

1. The player has a night action and, being new to Mafia, is excited about it. 2. Or, the player is scum.

Since no one else has mentioned it yet-if you think it's possible I have a power role, why would you bring that up?

[Conspicuous_other]

Bah. I've fallen too far behind, and I don't think I'll be able to catch up with this game.

@mod: Replace me, please.

[ChannelDelibird]

You can't catch up on five pages? That's really bad form, C_o.

[xRECKONERx]

CoCo is a weird case. Sure, it's a slightly different playstyle, and I think that's accentuated some of the friction going on here. I don't like the "you have to trust me, I am pro-town" post(s), they just sound a little forced, but I think his case on Wicked has some merit.

You mean my case on Wicked that he pretty much parroted?

[My Milked Eek]

Bah. I've fallen too far behind, and I don't think I'll be able to catch up with this game.

@mod: Replace me, please.

Come on, do as me, take your time. Read 5 pages a day and you can keep up in less than a week. Try it. Don't get discouraged by the fast pace of this game.

This being said: Page 14. I'll get caught up tomorrow, for real this time, I have no plans for tomorrow, yes, I'm that sad.

Also, I still had this on:

Unvote

[Conspicuous_other]

TBPH, I've sort of started to lose interest in this game.

However, I'll stay in so as to not add to the amount of people not active ATM.

I'll start a full re-read tomorrow, should take about a day or two depending on my schedule.

[stuntkeyboardist]

I'm really tired right now, but does it feel sort of like this game stopped. We have so many people falling out of the game, there are very few posts of importance recently, and no one is really making cases anymore. C'mon people. We need action! People, let's step up!

[xRECKONERx]

I still think Wicked and CoCo deserve further investigation. I'd like to hear EVERYONE's opinion on them at the moment.

[canadianbovine]

CoCo has been jumpy. made lots of recent mistakes. posted a lot because of it.

i think we need to get to day 2. day 1 is honestly never a good day.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm rereading from page 15, findings below. Sorry I've been more of a passenger than I would like recently.

I agree with lobster that if nohands had any doubt at all about the veracity of qax's V/LA he should have checked to see if he had posted it in any other games. The lack of research behind that kind of a suggestion is appalling. Something to keep in mind, I think.

CoCo's 360 claims "no opinion" on wolfram, Wicked, qax, and myself. Which is ridiculous. There have been cases on most of that group and to have absolutely no opinion on any of them just doesn't seem possible to me.

Again, Wicked's vote on NHT for being on all the bandwagons that turned out to be completely untrue is a real sticking point for me. It looks a lot like he's seen lobster's FoS on NHT earlier that page and thinks he can get support for a wagon there.

Reckoner makes a good catch on Wicked's contradiction about whether or not he thought CB's unvote/revote was scummy. I'm kicking myself for having passed over it on my first read, especially as I posted next. Suspicion on Wicked definitely growing here.

FoS: Wicked

CoCo's reasoning for saying that we shouldn't be talking about who Reckoner may or may not kill is weird. His conclusion, yeah, that's absolutely right, we shouldn't be, but his reasoning isn't "it gives the scum a greater chance of being able to fuck the town over at night", it's because "a vigilante is someone who takes the law into his own hands". I don't know whether this is particularly scummy, just because it's so stupid, I don't see any reason why scum are more likely to say it. But weird, nonetheless.

In the same post, CoCo upgrades his FoS on Wicked to a vote. Why the wait?

Also in the same post:

Finally, there is something about Qax42 bothering me, but I can't put my finger on it. However I am observing his posts with care at this time.

Possible scumbuddies? Meh, I don't want to get into connections before we know anyone's alignment, but this does suggest CoCo/qax scum. It also suggests just CoCo scum, for trying (badly) to stir the pot.

I honestly don't care what the vig does. The role, if used wisely, helps the town, and I'm VERY pro town.

Here's a strange post - if he thinks the role can be used wisely to help the town, why does he

not care

what it does? And, of course, "I'm VERY pro town" does not read very pro town at all.

I don't like DRK labelling the above quote as "too defensive, which is not pro town", though. It's lazy, because being defensive is NOT scummy. Town players should want to defend themselves every bit as much as scum players.

I assure you, my only wish is to see scum gone. My main suspects at this point are Wicked, DRK, and NHT.

And yet, therer is still something off about Qax42...

Again with the contentless "look at qax! please look at qax!" spiel. Stop it.

Some may say I feel this way because the vote is for me, but I think you are merely deflecting in order to hide amongst the crowd. Cripes, do you think I'm so blind as to not notice the scum tells you've given off?

What scum tells he's given off? You've never mentioned any scum tells from lobster before. Why isn't he on your list of top suspects in your post prior to his vote for you?

FoS: CoCo

Reread his posts.
You'll see. I'm busy with Qax.

No, you give a fucking case! You've never mentioned lobster as scummy before, and now you're telling us to reread him like it's blindingly obvious!
And you're not "busy with qax", you're not giving us anything on him at all, just "he feels funny"! Gaaaaah

FoS CoCo

CoCo lazily labels Wicked's vote as OMGUS, rather than actually respond to the DRK post that Wicked quoted with his vote. Seriously, there's been no CoCo response to it. It really looks like he's trying to ignore it, becuase if he responds, he'll have to give evidence that he doesn't have.

At last! It's an explanation on qax! And it's this:

Suffice to say, at this point I feel Qax42 is leaning on the town side of neutral. I also feel he is being cautious to avoid a lynch. And its that confusing thought process that requires I take a bit longer to think about it.

...that's what you "felt funny" about? That you were trying not-very-subtly to ram down our throats? Pffft.

Why I think DRK is scummy:
Whenever I read one of DRK's posts, I feel a sense of urgency radiating from them. As though the player is trying to lynch someone as soon as they can in order to bring on the night. It seems as though DRK is more than willing to lynch anyone. Because I feel this way, I'm led to the following conclusions; 1. The player has a night action and, being new to Mafia, is excited about it. 2. Or, the player is scum. Scum often enjoy bandwagons and quick lynches. So long as the player being lynched isn't a fellow scum (and even in some situations, they could be), its viewed as acceptable.
Basically, I view DRK as scum because he pursues any seemingly obtainable lynch.

Funny that you give two possible options for DRK's (fictitious, as it happens) behaviour: one that he is a town power role, thanks for the speculation, and the second that he is scum. Yet you accept the second one with no indication of why the first should be discounted. And all you're doing anyway is saying what his posts "are radiating", without at least showing us some wording or phrases of his to support the statement. I'm getting pretty convinced that you are scum.

CoCo then asks lobster to explain his CoCo vote. lobster does so, saying "does this shed some light on my confusion/frustration with you?" Coco responds with this:

Yes, Lobster. That sheds plenty of light.

AND NOTHING ELSE.

WILL YOU PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD RESPOND TO THE CASES ON YOU!

----------------------------

In summary,

unvote, vote: CoCo

. Pretty solid on this one.

[qax42]

@Mod: Sorry, but I'm going to need a replacement.

Sorry guys. I don't have the time for this. I just saw someone else wanted a replacement as well, which sucks, but it's Sunday, my only free time during the week, and I've got other commitments aside from this game that I just can't get out of now. This is the first time I've logged on since my last post.

My apologies to whoever takes my spot—I've left 7 or 8 pages worth of empty catch-up to do.

Good luck!

[xRECKONERx]

Cooooooooooool.

[DeathRowKitty]

I don't like DRK labelling the above quote as "too defensive, which is not pro town", though. It's lazy, because being defensive is NOT scummy. Town players should want to defend themselves every bit as much as scum players.

Words really aren't my strong point. By "defensive", I meant that his posts seemed more concerned with him personally staying alive than with the town's best interests. What I was trying to say with the defensive comment was that CoCo's saying he was very pro-town seemed too much a survival tactic without any real reason. I'll try to word these things better in the future.

[DeathRowKitty]

I already asked this in the context of wolfram and I guess it's time to ask again:

Do we go after wolfram's and qax's replacements
1) immediately?
2) after they've posted a few times?
3) only if they act/post suspiciously?

[ChannelDelibird]

We ask them to comment on their predecessors' play imediately, but we shouldn't run them up to a lynch until we've heard what they have to say. We definitely can't ignore their predecessors' behaviour.

[ChannelDelibird]

Words really aren't my strong point. By "defensive", I meant that his posts seemed more concerned with him personally staying alive than with the town's best interests. What I was trying to say with the defensive comment was that CoCo's saying he was very pro-town seemed too much a survival tactic without any real reason. I'll try to word these things better in the future.

If he is town, then staying alive

is

in the town's benefit, unless he thinks his death will help lead the town to the scum. I'm not saying CoCo's post wasn't scummy (far from it, after my last big post) but I don't think that POV is a reason why.

[canadianbovine]

We ask them to comment on their predecessors' play imediately, but we shouldn't run them up to a lynch until we've heard what they have to say. We definitely can't ignore their predecessors' behaviour.

but you can't have them answer for them because the replacements are not wolframnhart or qax.

[ChannelDelibird]

We ask them to comment on their predecessors' play imediately, but we shouldn't run them up to a lynch until we've heard what they have to say. We definitely can't ignore their predecessors' behaviour.

but you can't have them answer for them because the replacements are not wolframnhart or qax.

Clearly, they can't explain fully, and I don't expect them to, but they'll have at least some knowledge of their predecessors' perspectives. We certainly can't just forget past behaviour.

[Wickedestjr]

Just posting to say that I am still here.

I think we should get the replacements to see what they think of the players they replaced and their behavior.

CoCo is currently at L-2 in case you were wondering.

[My Milked Eek]

Still here, employer called that I

have to

come tomorrow, even though I told him I wouldn't come the next week. I was planning on finishing the reading and posting now, but it appears I will have to go to bed instead.

I agree with cdb's sentiments on coco.