Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[canadianbovine]

Damn, we're two claims away from knowing who the possible mafia is. Although, tonight is not going to be pretty with all of our PRs out in the open.

This would be true, if the power claims are honest.

I'm pretty sure Coco is a proven cop. The miller role pretty much proves it. We should have realized this earlier. Perhaps a hypocritical question:
Qwints: did you realize this during N1?

Ok, so so far, this means that Quints (in my book) is a definite safe. Reckoner has a confirmed killing role making him either vig or SK, either of which should help the town find the scum. That leaves CB as Doctor and CoCo as cop.

Coco is the only one to be safe after realizing the miller role.

I do not think nor feel Reckoner, cb or qwints are off the hook.
- reckoner for the sk-vig issues
- cb for the easiness of a doc claim
- qwints for the convenience of a soft investigation role in a game with already an investigative role in it (coco)

And qwints said the scum have safe flavor, so going off on flavor for the past claims is rather useless. So, taking this into account I think cb is most likely to be lying. After him qwints. (out of the 4 claimers)

My two cents on the recent developments.

Don't you think being the Mafia Doctor is a little too blunt? Qwints has confirmed that there is a role name called the Mafia Doctor, the other roles are debatable, because they've been not the role name, such as a Mafia Hitman (vig), and Mafia Spy (cop). They could be interpreted as different things. But Mafia Doctor...you can't really interpret that for anything else, can you?

Also: then why hasnt anyone counter claimed my claim? I've stated that being a mafia doctor is the Doctor in this game, and nobody else has stood up saying that they are a Mafia ____ (doctor equivalent), and attempted to bust my claim.

[qwints]

As in a police officer working for the mafia, as in the movie Departed?

There's no role name that fits.

[canadianbovine]

so how i interpret that as that the role of mafia spy is the most likely out of the possible role names that would have investigative qualities.

And since no one has Counterclaimed Coco's claim of being Mafia Spy,

I endorse Coco being the Cop

[My Milked Eek]

Chill dude.

As I can tell, qwints has a list of 16 names.
If your name is on it, it doesn't mean you speak the truth, it means that qwints can check if that name is alive or not, i.e. if you're scum who assumed the identity of the murdered mafia doctor.

Correct me if wrong, qwints.


Why no one counterclaimed your claim?
Easy. If you're scum who's been given a safe claim then the mod made it so that no one else has that role's name. That's the intention of a safe claim, which qwints said the scum have.

[xRECKONERx]

Qwints should have my "Mafia Hitman" role listed, then. That should be enough to verify that I'm actually a Mafia Hitman and not a third party role. In either case, I'm definitely seeing the logic in DRK/NHT voting together/not voting each other. I think this deserves to be looked at, and out of the two, as of now, I prefer a NHT lynch.

[canadianbovine]

sorry, i feel as if i'm on a roll. [no pun intended =P]

What i meant in no one counterclaimed.

Not the specific role flavor name, but what the role name represents.

Mafia Doctor would mean that I am this games' Doctor.

Now suppose there is someone who has the role name Mafia....Organ Collector. Lets suppose that i have lied, i am dirty rotten scum, and that the Mafia Organ Collector is the actual games doctor

I tried to choose something that would make sense, but out there that it would probably not be a role.

Why hasn't the Mafia Organ Collector counter claimed my claim as being the games doctor, then?

[My Milked Eek]

Because there might not be a doctor?

[My Milked Eek]

Qwints should have my "Mafia Hitman" role listed, then. That should be enough to verify that I'm actually a Mafia Hitman and not a third party role. In either case, I'm definitely seeing the logic in DRK/NHT voting together/not voting each other. I think this deserves to be looked at, and out of the two, as of now, I prefer a NHT lynch.

Same as with bovine.
It doesn't prove your alignment.

[canadianbovine]

Because there might not be a doctor?

okay. This i can not argue. You do not know that there is a doctor. I have claimed I am The Doctor, that role shows up on qwints list.

There is nothing else i can do to prove to you I am the doctor.

/on a roll

@ everyone, what do you think of my post regarding NHT and DRK's votes.

@ qwints: does Mafia Hitman show up on your list?

[canadianbovine]

Qwints should have my "Mafia Hitman" role listed, then. That should be enough to verify that I'm actually a Mafia Hitman and not a third party role. In either case, I'm definitely seeing the logic in DRK/NHT voting together/not voting each other. I think this deserves to be looked at, and out of the two, as of now, I prefer a NHT lynch.

Same as with bovine.
It doesn't prove your alignment.

Actually he can investigate one us tonight.

If the Mafia Doctor is still alive, that proves im the doctor, for if i wasnt, the Mafia doctor would be dead.

if the Mafia Hitman is still alive, that proves that he is the actual "Mafia Hitman"

[My Milked Eek]

That he can, but the fact that both your roles are on his list does not mean you're both mafia. I hope you finally get that.

[canadianbovine]

That he can, but the fact that both your roles are on his list does not mean you're both mafia. I hope you finally get that.

I hope you finally get that if he checks his files, and finds that the mafia doctor is still Alive, that would mean that the Mafia Doctor is still in alive in this game, and seeing how I claimed it, i think that would insure that i am the Mafia Doctor.

until then, yes, you do not know.

[My Milked Eek]

I got that in the first place. No need to get arrogant where it's not necessary.

[canadianbovine]

i also understood that im not safely claimed until someone can prove it.

we were both being arrogant.

[canadianbovine]

i had a different definition for arrogance.

we both however, didnt listen to each other, and tried to prove our points to one another despite the fact that we both accepted each others points.

[DeathRowKitty]

Why hasn't the Mafia Organ Collector counter claimed my claim as being the games doctor, then?

Even if you lied about your claim and there is a doctor role, it's very possible the doctor wouldn't want to out him/herself as of yet. I could be wrong, but I would think the doctor would be a pretty obvious scum target. By not counterclaiming yet, the doctor might have a decent shot at a save Night 2 because of the exposed PR's and could come out with more information Day 3, still in time to get you lynched.

@ qwints: does Mafia Hitman show up on your list?

If the scum all have safe claims, this would be Reckoner's, so I'm not sure it helps to ask that.

DRK had voted for 6 people who have flipped/claimed town, NHT 5. Two of DRK's were in the random voting stage.

As scum, what would I have to gain by voting town in the RVS, where it doesn't matter anyway?

[canadianbovine]

As scum, what would I have to gain by voting town in the RVS, where it doesn't matter anyway?

it was too much of a coincidence to pass up.

[canadianbovine]

Why hasn't the Mafia Organ Collector counter claimed my claim as being the games doctor, then?

Even if you lied about your claim and there is a doctor role, it's very possible the doctor wouldn't want to out him/herself as of yet. I could be wrong, but I would think the doctor would be a pretty obvious scum target. By not counterclaiming yet, the doctor might have a decent shot at a save Night 2 because of the exposed PR's and could come out with more information Day 3, still in time to get you lynched.

yet if someone counterclaimed, that would prove that i am scum. That would wipe out one scum and the town wouldnt have a risk of LyLo tomorrow.

@ qwints: does Mafia Hitman show up on your list?

If the scum all have safe claims, this would be Reckoner's, so I'm not sure it helps to ask that.

see above. He mentioned that all of our claims were on his list, but he did not mention Reckoners, thats why i wanted to ask.

[DeathRowKitty]

@ everyone, what do you think of my post regarding NHT and DRK's votes.

It means you would probably gain a lot of information by lynching one of us. Can't say I'd be behind a DRK lynch though... I wouldn't be happy with an NHT lynch, but I might support it iff (if and only if) it could prevent a potentially more damaging lynch.

[qwints]

MMK is correct.

Reckoner, I haven't checked to see if the Mafia hitman is still alive, so you could (unlikely given the nk's) be an infiltrator given the fake claim of mafia hitman. If I look tonight and find out the mafia hitman is still alive, that means (with no counter-claim) that you are the mafia hitman. That doesn't mean the mafia hitman is aligned with the rest of us. Nor does my confirming coco as mafia spy mean that he is so aligned.

I make that disclaimer in an overabundance of caution. My p.m. suggests that the anti-mafia forces are outsiders pretending to be important mafia members, not people who are already mafia.

[DeathRowKitty]

This is starting to look like a very unbalanced game, especially with the investigatives roles. Either not all of these claims are true or I would guess there are some unforseen scum power roles still out there. I would expect there would be a scum role-blocker to offset the pro-town power roles, which lends a little extra validity to CoCo's claim (I'm still hesitant to accept too many investigative roles in one game though). I can't think of any other standard scum power roles (I don't think I've seen a game with any scum PR's besides role-blocker), but it stands to reason in my mind that there should be at least one other in this game.

@qwints
Are there any roles on your list that seem they might not be pro-town (town as opposed to scum)? I'm just looking for a yes/no answer,

not

specific names.

[qwints]

@qwints
Are there any roles on your list that seem they might not be pro-town (town as opposed to scum)? I'm just looking for a yes/no answer,

not

specific names.

[/quote]

No. My role clearly states that the 16 roles are important mafia members and suggests that the anti-mafia forces will pretend to be one of those roles. There's no suggestion that a role that is still alive could be aligned against the mafia.

[xRECKONERx]

I think, for the benefit of town, we can do without investigating my role tonight. Let's look at it logically:

Even if I was a SK, I'd be more concerned with offing scum than offing townies. Scum are my direct opposition, and with just one extra kill on D3, it's not like I'm going to win with that.

If I'm vig, well, then it's obviously a waste to check it on me. We can do a check on me the next night. Tonight, I'd want to get a check done on the Doc claim.

[xRECKONERx]

Additionally:

If there is an unclaimed Doc, there's nothing they can do to reveal bovine's claim without outing themselves. If there's an unclaimed vig, they can just NK me. Right now it's important to keep the Doctor hidden, if bovine's claim is false.

[canadianbovine]

This is all fine with me, i have nothing to hide, but until Day 3, and when our lawyer has investigated, let us please focus on finding scum to lynch for today.

only 2 people have commented what i posted about DRK and NHT voting habits.

Starbuck? Eek? Qwints? anything to say about it?

ryan? Coco? comments?

NHT? Defense?