Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[qwints]

Night result: The mafia doctor is still alive.

Good shot reckoner.

For me, at least, today's lynch is pretty easy because 2 of starbuck, mmk and drk are scum. Time to re-read.

[stuntkeyboardist]

For me, at least, today's lynch is pretty easy because 2 of starbuck, mmk and drk are scum. Time to re-read.

Not necessarily. We have:

NHT - Mafia Godfather - confirmed
Reckoner - vig or SK - confirmed
quints - lawyer
Starbuck
DRK
CB - doctor
MME

So we have 2/5 shot (unconfirmed). There is no way that we can confirm you, and we also cannot confirm a doctor. Here is what needs to happen. Basically at this point, we need the real doctor to step forward. If no one does, I can start to believe CB's role. Real doc, if you're afraid to, think of it this way. There will be two doctors out. One is fake. If we dont lynch the real one, Reckoner can kill the other tonight. That puts us at 1/4 tomorrow guaranteed. And also remember that you win if your side wins. It's not on an individual basis.

However, quints, you will remain unconfirmed to us.

[My Milked Eek]

So, that's a possibility of three scenarios:

- They're both town and are telling the truth in their claims
- They're both scum and are lying
- Qwints is scum and is telling the truth

I cannot say I'm not pleased with you investigating bovine, I'd rather you investigated reckoner.

I'm going to wait for what bovine did before fully discussing the night actions.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that CB is, in fact, the real doctor. Qwints' claim is kind of, well, odd. Odd in the sense that it could be either a pro-Mafia or anti-Mafia alignment. I could see the Lawyer thing being an advantageous role to the anti-Mafia forces, somehow. I also don't like how he chose to investigate the Doctor instead of the Hitman. I suggested it yesterday, so now that helps me out since the Doc claim was confirmed, but the rest of the town is left scratching their heads about my alignment.

I'm willing to hunt for the remaining two scum out of DRK/MME/Starbuck. Already did an iso read of DRK and really didn't see anything but pro-town behavior, so if someone has anything to point out, that'd be just peachy. MME is townish, but more of a neutral read at this point. Still haven't done an iso on Starbuck, though yesterday I

refused

to lynch her.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, also:

I was given an extra bullet. WHY would someone give me an extra bullet when I'm already a vig?
And... fuck yeah, dead scum

[qwints]

However, qwints, you will remain unconfirmed to us.

As it should be - Coco flipping town doesn't confirm me. That doesn't change the fact that

I

know that I and CB (assuming no counter-claim) are not scum. I think a counter-claim is now mandatory.

As for investigating CB's claim rather than reckoner's,
1. CB seemed to have more suspicion on him yesterday.
2. I thought there was a fair chance that the scum would kill reckoner.
3. For flavor reasons, I'm not sure that I can detect the s.k.

[DeathRowKitty]

3. For flavor reasons, I'm not sure that I can detect the s.k.

Not sure what you mean by that. An inspection of Mafia Hitman should tell us if Reckoner was lying about his claim.

[canadianbovine]

i protected Reckoner yesterday because i felt since there was a great chance for him to of hit scum yesterday, i thought protecting him would do the best for the town.

Congratz Reckoner, good play Coco.

[canadianbovine]

also: sorry if it seems like i jumped in on day 3 late, It was 3 in the morning for me when day 3 started, and its 10 in the morning now.

[stuntkeyboardist]

I've been considering a mass claim. That was what I was talking about before.We have three unknown roles. It seems to me that if we know the other three, we can at least know if they are all on quints' list. The other reason, is that if any of the claimed faked a claim before, we wouldnt just be overlooking them to look at the unclaimed.

Without saying anything more (until after), we can figure out a few things by a mass claim, but to say those things now might make a scum claim different. At the risk of this being our last day, I think this needs to happen. Anybody else agree? disagree?

[qwints]

3. For flavor reasons, I'm not sure that I can detect the s.k.

Not sure what you mean by that. An inspection of Mafia Hitman should tell us if Reckoner was lying about his claim.

I'm worried that the mafia hitman

is

the serial killer. Thus reckoner might not me lying about his role name, but, instead, about his alignment.

[canadianbovine]

i support a mass claim.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Guys, the SK doesnt matter. We need to worry about lynching the scum first. If we kill all three scum and the game goes on, I think we know who is left to kill. Besides, if there's a scum majority, Reckoner would lose too. In his best interest, he needs to kill the last of the scum before he kills the last of the town.

[Starbuck]

I have no issues claiming. I have nothing to hide.

[canadianbovine]

plus i mean, assuming that qwints and i's claims are true.... Theres 2/3 scum out of the remaining people. we lynch town, and Reckoner has 100% chance of killing of killing scum tonight.

[stuntkeyboardist]

plus i mean, assuming that qwints and i's claims are true.... Theres 2/3 scum out of the remaining people. we lynch town, and Reckoner has 100% chance of killing of killing scum tonight.

Only if everybody's claim thus far is true. But essentially, yes.

[DeathRowKitty]

I'm not so sure a mass claim would be in our favor. Assuming no more than three scum, the worst situation we could be in right now is 5 on 2. The only way we don't make it to Day 4 is if we mislynch and Reckoner hits a townie (a different townie than the scum do). Given the nature of the game thus far and Reckoner's mysterious Night 2 gift, it's pretty safe to assume we still have PR's out there. I don't see the rush to give the scum more information than we have to.



I'll claim if no one else agrees with me, but if any of the claims made up until this point are fake, I think the scum would benefit more than we would from a mass claim. You may have noticed I've been a bit hesitant to accept any claims as confirmed townies and that's because it doesn't make much sense from my point of view, for two reasons:

Reason 1 - I know I'm town. By the logic that 2 of the 3 unclaimed are scum, in my mind, that leaves Starbuck and MME as the last two for a scum team. I haven't gotten much of a scum tell off of either of them.

Reason 2 - Does this setup seem

really

unbalanced to anyone else? If all of the claims have been true, we have a cop, a doctor, and un-NK'able townie/instant vig maker, a roleclaim verifier, and a vig. So far, the scum have a roleblocker and there's no evidence of any other existing scum PR's. The game just isn't balanced as we're currently seeing it and one or two less PR's would balance the game better.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Actually DRK, part of the reason that I want a mass claim is that I think everybody has a power role; even the scum. I want to know everybody's night actions, and see how they fit in with the big picture. It would also confirm (via quints) that we have a few liars out there. Plus, if everybody has a PR (including the scum), then no, it isnt unbalanced. And if we can catch some contradicting evidence, between our unclaimed and claimed players, I think that would give us the edge over the scum getting the edge.

[Starbuck]

Actually, you're wrong in one case DRK. I know why xRx has an extra bullet.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Actually, you're wrong in one case DRK. I know why xRx has an extra bullet.

Do you give away bullets?

[Starbuck]

Actually, you're wrong in one case DRK. I know why xRx has an extra bullet.

Do you give away bullets?

Yes I do.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Actually, you're wrong in one case DRK. I know why xRx has an extra bullet.

Do you give away bullets?

Yes I do.

So I would say it was safe to assume that we were to work together. Mind if I ask your role name?

[qwints]

Reason 2 - Does this setup seem

really

unbalanced to anyone else? If all of the claims have been true, we have a cop, a doctor, and un-NK'able townie/instant vig maker, a roleclaim verifier, and a vig. So far, the scum have a roleblocker and there's no evidence of any other existing scum PR's. The game just isn't balanced as we're currently seeing it and one or two less PR's would balance the game better.

Yes it seems unbalanced - even if reckoner is a sk. I would not be shocked if Coco or I had some sanity issues. That's part of the reason I think that I wouldn't be able to detect the sk. I think a mass claim makes a lot of sense because it widens my investigative possibilities.

On the other hand, we've got a problem.

Let's say we lynch starbuck and reckoner kills DRK while scum kills CB.If just one of starbuck and reckoner are scum, that leaves:

NHT - mafia
Reckoner - sk/vig
MME - scum
qwints - mafia

If reckoner's a sk, mafia can't win without a cross kill. What's worse, if the lynch flips scum, then sk-reckoner just shoots a known mafia, precluding the possibility of killing both mafia by tomorrow.

I need to think about this more, but it seems possible that if Reckoner is a nk-immune sk, we might have already lost the game.

I'm going to try and figure out the possible outcomes and may post that if it doesn't help scum.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Quints, I think I know a way around this issue...

Let me give a few more details about my role. First of all, I never got to chose what I gave away. At the beginning of D1, I was given the gun to give away based on D1 actions. I then got another gun at the beginning of D2. I assumed it was because of lobster dying and that gun being gone, but now I'm thinking it was because I will ONLY get guns and Starbuck will only give bullets. In other words, our two roles were meant to play together. When you guys tried to lynch me, I lost my ability to give anything, but I was never told I lost the gun that I was holding since the beginning of D2. That said, if we keep Starbuck until tomorrow, Starbuck gives me a bullet and CB protects Starbuck, we have another means of killing tomorrow. This would mean, qwints, in you situation, we go into D4 with that setup (with a few minor changes), we can lynch MME (or whoever) as scum, and I can kill Reckoner (sorry) during twilight. This would leave a mafia (town) majority, and we win. But we do need a mass claim.

[stuntkeyboardist]

At the same time though, that would be assuming I could use the gun. I dont see why I couldnt if it were in my possession.