Mini 807 - Save the Mafia! (Game Over!)

[stuntkeyboardist]

Sorry quintsy.

No offense taken. I just really haven't had a lot to say about the game. Coco's claim is most likely legit and, I'm not sure about reckoner's. NHT still strikes me as very likely to be scum, CB's scum-slip about the number of scum has attracted my vote because it's an easy mistake to make.

I'm sorry, but you're honestly telling me that you have NOTHING to say about this game? There has been a lot going on that you have not yet responded to. How about the fact that you're being voted?

[stuntkeyboardist]

Sorry quintsy.

No offense taken. I just really haven't had a lot to say about the game. Coco's claim is most likely legit and, I'm not sure about reckoner's. NHT still strikes me as very likely to be scum, CB's scum-slip about the number of scum has attracted my vote because it's an easy mistake to make.

I'm sorry, but you're honestly telling me that you have NOTHING to say about this game? There has been a lot going on that you have not yet responded to. How about the fact that you're being voted?

^^Much better

[Starbuck]

Or the fact that he's now at L-1?

[qwints]

I'm the mafia lawyer. I kept the mafia's files. Each night I can ask the mod, and find out if 1 of a given set of roles is still alive. In other words, I can investigate role claims. After last night. I now know that Coco's role, the mafia spy, is still alive. So, unless there's a counter-claim out there, Coco is not scum.

[My Milked Eek]

Quick response:
Would have been better if you checked Reckoner's role to be honest.

Why did you decide to check Coco and not reckoner, whose role was more under suspicion of being an sk?

And could you post some flavor? DON'T quote.

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah, for someone who was more suspicious of my claim than CoCo's, I'd like to know why you decided to check him over me.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Quick response:
Would have been better if you checked Reckoner's role to be honest.

Why did you decide to check Coco and not reckoner, whose role was more under suspicion of being an sk?

And could you post some flavor? DON'T quote.

Okay, before a hammer, I will

unvote

.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Quick response:
Would have been better if you checked Reckoner's role to be honest.

Why did you decide to check Coco and not reckoner, whose role was more under suspicion of being an sk?

And could you post some flavor? DON'T quote.

Sorry, I was going to continue that post (that's why I had the quote), but thought I'd better just be safe.

Anyway, I dont understand why he'd check Reckoner. I actually think it makes more sense to check CoCo. D1, talk didnt come up about Reckoner's role being SK. It might have been briefly mentioned, but it wasnt a focus of any argument. So at this point, the tentative roles are.

Reckoner: Vig
CoCo: Cop
CB: Doctor
Quints: Lawyer

IF all of these are honest claims, then there is a 3/5 shot of hitting scum tonight for them, 3/4 for the two remaining town players in that group.

The problem is that none of these players have been acting very pro-town, and they all have a power role. I'm surprised that we came to L1 with each of these people and not one is scum, yet all have a power role. My initial reaction to Quints' claim was to obviously unvote to avoid a quick hammer just in case. But the thought that he and CoCo being scum partners also came through my mind. Could Quints have lied about checking CoCo to defend him? In which case, it could be that both are scum together. Or this could just be completely wrong and they are both town players. Like MME though, I would like a bit more from Quints. I need to think for a bit. I'll give more soon.

[qwints]

I checked Coco because I thought there was a decent chance Reckoner would be dead. Also, I thought confirming an investigative role early might be more useful than confirming a killing role - since the night results would likely (and did) tell us whether reckoner could kill or not. It's important to note that I AM NOT an alignment cop, I can only verify role-claims. So I can out people pretending to be an important mafia role (infiltrating scum) but not verify whether a mafia member wins with the rest of us.

As for flavor, I have case files on every important mafia member because I defended them in court. I know that infiltrating scum are disguising themselves as important mafia members. (I assume this means all scum have safe claims) Each night, I can look through my files and learn whether an important mafia roll remains in the game. I don't have a gun, and I win when all anti-mafia forces have been killed.

Both reckoner and coco claimed roles that were on my list of possible roles. Last night, I learned that the mafia spy is still alive.

I could give examples of additional possible role names, but I don't think that's a good idea.

[canadianbovine]

As an aside, and don't take this as a personal attack that I think your lying, but I find it extremely surpising in 8 or so months you have yet to have a PR.

there was a six month period where i didnt play. This is my fifth game on this site, never played mafia anywhere else.

unvote: qwints

i'll believe it for now. would like flavor. That seems like a role that could easily be scum.

I read the game in chronological order, and post my thoughts as I read the posts (aka, I read the post, and posted the "ontradiction?" thing).

yet there were times when you missed information, and posted showing that lack of information.

At the same time, I'm still not feeling the scum vibe from DRK. I mean, sure, it was stupid to vote Starbuck based on that, but I thought he explained his reasoning well enough (again, still dont agree with it though). And as for the fence-sitting, I do feel he's just being more cautious knowing what we have to do. I got a very pro-town vibe from D1, so it would take a bit more than that to change my mind on him.

how do you feel about him now, knowing that we have unearthed yet another power role.

@ DRK

: who do you now think is scum

. I'm surprised that we came to L1 with each of these people and not one is scum, yet all have a power role

[purely flavor response] its because we're the mafia .

Don't forget that wicked was a Miller - could of been disastrous day 2.
And when lobster flipped Godfather's Daughter, i was seriously scared it was a princess.

[qwints]

Wow, I missed CB's doc claim.

unvote

[Starbuck]

unvote

Back at square one.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Could someone explain the Miller thing? I looked it up and still didnt quite understand it.

The flavor that quints gave is (as of now) the most believable to me. I do apologize sincerely for my gunning for you quints. I cant say i was in the wrong though.

I have one question though quints. You have files on every mafia member right? So is it safe to assume that you dont have any on the scum players? If so, how many files do you have? We can figure out how many we're up against.

One thing that bothers me though, is that you have files on Reckoner and CoCo (for which I'm reconsidering as town), but do you have a file for CB's doctor claim? I know you missed it before you told us about CoCo and Reckoner, but now that you know, is his role in your files?

[qwints]

I have 16 files on all the important mafia members. Remember that "many" mafia died in the opening flavor. My flavor states that anti-mafia infiltrators are disguising themselves as dead (pre-game) mafia members. That's why I can spot a fake claim by finding out if the role is alive or not. Now, if somebody falsely claimed a role that was in the game, I would be unable to tell who was telling the truth (one reason I don't want to reveal the possible role names).

I have files on the mafia doctor (CB), mafia janitor(CDB) and the godfather's daughter (lobster). I do not have a file on the mafia lawyer(myself). I do not have a file on the mafia traitor (which would have put in a tough situation if wicked had claimed).

Miller just means that a sane cop gets a guilty on you even though you're not scum.

I should stress that, because scum have safe claims, evaluating flavor is not going to out scum. Scum are not making up their claim, the mod did.

[xRECKONERx]

As much as I really really wanted to lynch qwints,

unvote

. If we're going to believe all the PR claims:

ryan2754
canadianbovine (Doc)
nohandtyper
qwints (Lawyer)
DeathRowKitty
Starbuck
My Milked Eek
CoCo (Cop)
xRECKONERx (Vig)

This would mean a lynch of either ryan/NHT/DRK/Starbuck/MME would need to happen today. I can go ahead and tell you I'm not going to support a Starbuck lynch or a MME lynch for the time being, and given my re-read of DRK, I'm not entirely supportive of a DRK lynch. I'm going to have to do an iso read on both ryan and NHT to make my decision.

[Starbuck]

Damn, we're two claims away from knowing who the possible mafia is. Although, tonight is not going to be pretty with all of our PRs out in the open.

[xRECKONERx]

Damn, we're two claims away from knowing who the possible mafia is. Although, tonight is not going to be pretty with all of our PRs out in the open.

Interesting.

[stuntkeyboardist]

Ok, so so far, this means that Quints (in my book) is a definite safe. Reckoner has a confirmed killing role making him either vig or SK, either of which should help the town find the scum. That leaves CB as Doctor and CoCo as cop. Either of which are semi-unconfirmed (the way I understand it). Just to be sure, quints, you can tell who's role is still in the game, but not if the role is scum/mafia, correct? I would not support either lynch tonight based on what we have going on at the moment. That leaves:

Starbuck
DRK
MME
Ryan

I put that list in order from least scummy to scummiest as far as I can tell. Ryan is my only semi-lynch candidate, but I cant say I have a strong scum-read on any of these players at the moment.

BTW quints, thanks for explaining the Miller thing.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, I'm going to assume that one of the claims so far are b/s. It's hard to prove a Doc claim; and I'm a little pissed that CoCop got blocked, because it makes things drastically harder. In either case, if we hit scum today or don't (I'd say our chances are pretty good), we can verify the validity of at least one of these claims tomorrow.

[canadianbovine]

one thing i just noticed.

DRK : [qax1, lobster1], CB5, Reckoner4, Reckoner6, Wicked3, CoCo3, CoCo5
NHT: [DRK1], CB3, CDB1, Reckoner5, qax2, CoCo6, CoCo3

Most non-random votes: DRK, NHT (6)

This is from DRK's "who voted for who" post

what i'm showing

:
DRK had voted for 6 people who have flipped/claimed town, NHT 5. Two of DRK's were in the random voting stage.

Now, i'll continue his voting analysis after that post:

-Soon, DRK votes wicked again, votes Starbuck, who many have as protown, or at least a very dedicated replacement. Votes me again.

-NHT had a very strong belief that coco was faking his cop claim. Infamous town hammer. Votes the now believed to be town MME because he "felt like it," and placed DRK at the bottom of his scum list. Votes qwints again.

So, updated

:

DRK

: [qax1, lobster1], CB5, Reckoner4, Reckoner6, Wicked3, CoCo3, CoCo5, Wicked, Starbuck, CB.

NHT:

[DRK1], CB3, CDB1, Reckoner5, qax2, CoCo6, CoCo3, Wicked[hammer], MME, qwints.

Conclusion:

DRK has voted for 8 people who have flipped, claimed, or are strongly believed to be town, and has never voted NHT.

NHT has voted 7 people who have flipped, claimed, or are strongly believed to be town, and voted for DRK only once in the random voting stage.

[qwints]

NHT, it's a bit stronger than that:

I'm fairly sure no one would fake claim mafia spy without being given the role as a safe claim by the mod. My p.m. implies that the anti-mafia forces are infiltrators pretending to be mafia members, not mafia members who are aligned anti-mafia. I'm fairly certain that Coco, and anyone else I clear, is unlikely to be scum - but it's not absolute.

[canadianbovine]

That leaves CB as Doctor and CoCo as cop. Either of which are semi-unconfirmed (the way I understand it). Just to be sure, quints, you can tell who's role is still in the game, but not if the role is scum/mafia, correct?

WRONG!

he said that the role

Mafia

Spy

is still alive in this game. That was the role the Coco had claimed, and nobody has CC'd.

So, unless there's a counter-claim out there, Coco is not scum.

@Qwints, i know you dont want to reveal the names, and i dont want you to. What i want to ask is: are there names/files that could somehow be a Cop?

This is a yes or no question, not a "tell me the names" kind of question

[My Milked Eek]

Damn, we're two claims away from knowing who the possible mafia is. Although, tonight is not going to be pretty with all of our PRs out in the open.

This would be true, if the power claims are honest.

I'm pretty sure Coco is a proven cop. The miller role pretty much proves it. We should have realized this earlier. Perhaps a hypocritical question:
Qwints: did you realize this during N1?

Ok, so so far, this means that Quints (in my book) is a definite safe. Reckoner has a confirmed killing role making him either vig or SK, either of which should help the town find the scum. That leaves CB as Doctor and CoCo as cop.

Coco is the only one to be safe after realizing the miller role.

I do not think nor feel Reckoner, cb or qwints are off the hook.
- reckoner for the sk-vig issues
- cb for the easiness of a doc claim
- qwints for the convenience of a soft investigation role in a game with already an investigative role in it (coco)

And qwints said the scum have safe flavor, so going off on flavor for the past claims is rather useless. So, taking this into account I think cb is most likely to be lying. After him qwints. (out of the 4 claimers)

My two cents on the recent developments.

[qwints]

I have no idea what the in-game abilities of the roles are. All I have is a list of role names, and the information that these are all the possible important mafia members. My check just tells me whether a mafia member is still alive and therefore in the game. If someone claims a role on my list that is not alive, they are anti-mafia infiltrators and obv-scum.

If by Cop, you mean a role that is able to investigate alignments, then I have no more idea than any other player whether a mafia spy fits that description. I don't see any reason for Coco to truthfully reveal his role and lie about his ability.

If by Cop, you mean anti-mafia forces, then no. All the roles are explicitly declared to be important members of the mafia whose role names I know from my job as the mafia lawyer.

[canadianbovine]

I have no idea what the in-game abilities of the roles are. All I have is a list of role names, and the information that these are all the possible important mafia members. My check just tells me whether a mafia member is still alive and therefore in the game. If someone claims a role on my list that is not alive, they are anti-mafia infiltrators and obv-scum.

If by Cop, you mean a role that is able to investigate alignments, then I have no more idea than any other player whether a mafia spy fits that description. I don't see any reason for Coco to truthfully reveal his role and lie about his ability.

If by Cop, you mean anti-mafia forces, then no. All the roles are explicitly declared to be important members of the mafia whose role names I know from my job as the mafia lawyer.

i understand that, what i meant was that,

in your opinion,

are there other names on there

that could logically translate,

into being a pro mafia cop