mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[populartajo]

hi
/confirm
hi alvinz
also, is this the road to rome?

[populartajo]

Vote : Elias te Thief

Ahh, it feels good doing it.
Also, why would you confirm by PM?

mod note: exactly what happened was that Elias sent me the message "k." right after he got his role pm. I took that to mean confirmation.

Vote Count:

2 Gaspode (Evilgorrilaz, Marmalade)
1 alvinz95 (iamausername)
1 mellowed man (ashmite84)
1 ashmite84 (Mellowed Man)
1 Evilgorrilaz (CoheedCambria09)

[populartajo]

Vote : Evilgorrilaz

He likes silly bandwagons.

[populartajo]

Thoughts! Yey!
Gaspode, I agree with his thoughts, although I dont know what's the difference between a major FoS and a vote, in this state of the game. Seems like he's being quite careful. But his analysis is interesting, then he has been added to my town note.

Also: why was the vote count included in populartajo's post? It caused me some major confusion.

The Mod likes me!

Also, how are we supposed to get discussion going if we don't apply any pressure?

Ive heard this explanation a million times. Can you link me to some games where you've acted like this before?

I agree that Evilgorrilaz is wagon happy and that could be dangerous for the town, but considering the situation, a bandwagon could be more helpful than not doing anything. Wagoning can be used for scumhunting or for scum. Right now, a bandwagon would help the town because it can make the scum give off hints that they are scum. If he tried to wagon on a real discussion, then that would be scummy. I'll keep an eye out for any more bandwagons after the random phase

There's something I dont like in this post. Do you feel it?

um this is my first game, i was just pointing out a few of my noob observations, i didnt know that by saying there havent been any tells, was a tell, srry if im confusing anyone

How old are you?

I would advise not using an excuse of the type "I am not experienced, and therefore sorry for my mistake."

FoS Mellowed Man.

You know why.

Agreed. Please do not use newbieness as an excuse in this game. Also, lynch all lurkers np

Im starting to like my vote more than I wanted to.

Well, FoSes don't really mean anything in terms of game mechanics, it's just an established shorthand for "I find this person suspicious, but, for whatever reason, don't wish to vote for them at this time".
That said, I'm not really sure what Gaspode was getting at with the accusation. Scum often try having someone else vote for them, then "change" their vote to them again? I don't think it's suspicious that ashmite commented on the strangeness of Mellowed Man's actions, because it was a really strange thing to do.
I'm on board for a "evilgorrilaz likes bandwaggoning" bandwagon, so Unvote, Vote: evilgorrilaz.

While I had a bad feeling about Alvinz' post, iamausername's tone gives me a good vibe at first sight. [/gut]
Also, where's Elias?

[populartajo]

You know what's funny? That I think alvinz95 now feels more protown than scum. Why? Mmm, why would he (a relative newbie) would suspect Elias (an experieced player) and for a weak reason? Wouldnt newbie scum avoid this kind of players? Also, I liked his theory where he involved some players and myself. Im involved but it seems a valid scumhunting. So, I dont know where this alvinz wagon come from. (And I know that at the beginning I said something like "There's something that feels wrong in his posts", but with all that has been posted after, I sincerely think he feels more agressive townie that silly scum")
Therefore, I will like to ask some questions:

Avinz95 is catching my suspician as well, mellows logic seems to be heading in the right direction.

Can you elaborate in this, please?

For now, I will vote: alvinz95. Partly based on Mellowed's logic of being agreeable and careful, also somewhat based on the fact that he seems to be trying to take charge of the game and be extremely helpful.

Sometimes this means someone's just a useful pro-town person, but it can also be a scum tactic

(especially for someone who's been around for a few months--long enough to be trying different stuff like that, but not long enough to know it is extremely difficult to pull off). Finally, post 101 is one of the worst posts of this game--in addition to many other problems, the quote about "he is BY FAR not on my scum list"

is either incredibly stupid townness (starting Elias off on the innocent side of the spectrum, rather than in the middle) or more unnecessary scum friendliness.

If your suspcions can go either way, .-null tells FTW-, why are you voting him?

correct, upon correction. Defensiveness is a major strong point of my town and scum play

Fixed.

So yeah, I'm still totally undecided, as I like to wait until I've examined tells from every angle before jumping into a decision

Go,go,go.

Alvinz seems to be the either "totally defensive" or "totally agreeing personality."
At the same time, I just have an instinct he is scum.

Can you qoute some lines where you've found

this personality

? What do you think about Evilgorrilaz)

Tajo: more agressive than I saw in my last game with him

And that means...

Evil Gorillaz: lulz, doesnt understand pretentious

Any comments on the love for bandwagons?

Well, if there's a certain player that a lot of people say in thread is pro-town, and no one thinks is scummy, scum will be likely to NK them because they'll know for sure that they'll have trouble getting a bandwagon going on that person, and there won't really be any way to link them to the kill. I mean, sure, to a certain extent, they can find the most townie looking players without our help, but people stating it in thread just gives them a more definite idea of their best targets without any particular benefit to the town.

Can I add you to my protown L-list?

It is as if he's asking his scum partner to back him up on this. Saying "Do YOU feel it?". Other wise, he's trying to start a wagon with that question, which is scummy considering he started it without even getting on it.

You said it was a stretch, and it is. Its nice scumhunting, though, shows some effort, but it doesnt make sense becuase I sincerely didnt want to start a wagon on you. Just I dont know why I didnt like that post of yours.
I did a quick reread, and a quicked copy-paste, so I may have missed some things.
Conclusions:
I still like my Evilgorrilaz vote, (where is he?)
I dont understand yet the Alvin wagon
I like iamasuername, Marmalade, maybe Gaspode.
I dont like Evilgorrilaz, Mellowed Man.
I think we should prod lurkers.
Neutral about other players.
And we're pretty fcked up becuase Elias is scum. (Thats a joke, guys.)

[populartajo]

Its called a wagon.

No.

Avinz95 is

catching my suspician as well

, mellows logic seems to be heading in the right direction.

See?

[populartajo]

Thought 1: If Evilgorrilaz is scum, then Mellowed Man and Cream are his most possible scumpartners, maybe Gaspode.
Reason : Evilgorrilaz is highly suspected, but :

All this makes you the most scummy player in my books at the moment, and definitely earns you a Vote:alvinz95. Please comeback on all of my points.

I also think he uses too much weak logic for my taste.

Alright, so for some reason I think iamusername and alvinz95 are like a pair, it is just an illusion that came to my mind when rereading the 1st post of Iamusername, on page 5, etc. and so on.

As you can see, I still dont like this guy.
Now, Gaspode, do you still like your vote for Alvin? What do you think of evilgorrilaz?

Thought 2: I approve the majority of Alvinz post but:
[quote:"Alvinz"]All the things that are held against me are things that I've posted to comment on everyone's posts,

like a good town member

, always joining conversation. [/quote]
Was that necessary to post that?
Anyways, Im liking alvinz more and more. Ive played with him before so I feel that he's acting town. If you told me to pick a lynch today I'd totally go with Evilgorrilaz or Cream.

[populartajo]

Posting here to let you know that Im very busy today and tomorrow. Catching up asap.3

[populartajo]

Would anyone mind laying out a good case against Evilgorrilaz? All I can see is the following: Stupid bandwagoning at the beginning (which I've discussed before), his dumb "lynch all lurkers" comment (obviously a joke, albeit a bad one), and his refusal to metagame (yes, a bit scummy, but no smoking gun). Maybe I'm missing some of his posts, but the case as it stands right now doesn't seem terribly convincing to me.

I'd go with refusal to metagame (does he have something to hide?) as the scummiest thing he's done. This is definitely mixed with some bad feeling Ive had reading his posts.

Agreed. Please do not use newbieness as an excuse in this game. Also, lynch all lurkers np

[/gut]
And about the wagon-happy, scum definitely likes them more than an eager townie, specially if they're silly.
Is that a good case? I know I fail, but its the best I can come up with about him at this semi-random state of the game. He has somehow felt less scummier at the game has progressed, though.
However, as the thread has increased its pages, some other things have catched my interest as well.
Let's see, kay thx?

Hm, it turns out I did FoS Alvinz. I think I will withdraw that FoS, though, since I'm unsure now about whether or not his points are being misconstrued by others.

Slip? Can you reexplain your reasoing in that post?

Unvote

Why did you unvote?

ah, good.

Come on, play some.

I honestly don't even know what I was thinking, it's been awhile..

Hi, scum.
Now, Some thoughts.
I seriously sometimes dislike Coheed Cambria way of playing, but I still dont know what to think about him. Could be newbie townie having problems with the intensity of the game or could be newbie scum using newbiness as an excuse. Idk.
I totally dislike Mellowed Man and Cream. Im definitely switching my vote to one of them. let me reread and Ill decide.

Major FOS to both.

I still like Alvinz, I dont know why is he being replaced. He feels like the last game I played with him.
I still like Iamasuername, Gaspode sometimes, Marmelade should explain.
About the other, still neutral. Disliking slightly Hypatia because she feels too complacent about the game is going. Lets wait his replacement.

important note: I'm having horrible computer trouble and can't get online for a while. The game can probably continue, but we have a player in need of replacement (well, 2, but I have 1 ready). No vote counts or possible lynches until probably a week. Very sorry, but there's not much I can do when my comp decides to destroy itself.

Thats too bad. Dont worry, I think we all can wait, right?

[populartajo]

Tajo, could you please explain what you don't like about my play (I honestly want to know, so that I can improve and get better)

I didn't go back and check, but I'm pretty sure I've only ever voted Evilgorrilaz.

At some points of the game, it seems that you dont care about this (you should've checked). Also, It's probably me and my liking of long posts but, Id like that you explain more your reasoning becuase it seems that you only go with the flow of suspicions. Thats why Im still no sure of your allignement.

[populartajo]

DONT LET THIS GAME DIE.

[populartajo]

All newcomer welcome. Patrick, fantastic job.

populartajo: voting evilgorillaz for liking silly bandwagons - but doesn't explain why ti is silly. (Yes, it is random voting, I know that. However, the only way to move it to real voting is to discuss the random voting.) It also was not much of a bandwagon with two votes. Still, a better reason than some others have given.

At the beginning he liked silly bandwagons (alas, he seemed to not care where his vote was going), I also know its the random stage, but hey, I think that scum likes more silly bandwagons than even an eager townie.

Is it "popular-ta-hoe"? as in like a chevy tahoe? Or is it "Tah-joe"? or is the J supposed to be a C?

Its Spanish, so I guess is pronounced like tahoe.

Anyways: your post 54 is interesting, it seems earnest but you don't extend yourself enough. What about alven's post seemed off to you?

He somehow agreed with evilgorrilaz, but to be honest, it just felt wrong at that state of the game.

Why does it matter if EG has acted that way in other games?

Becuase I wanted to know if he's always that eager

.
MM might know why you fossed him - but if he is scum, you just directly guided him, and if he's not, you still aren't helping the rest of us understand why. You should explain the fos on him (And you may have later, I Am typing as I read)

I simply dont like people who jump oin newbies for just being that, newbies.

What about Iamausername's post gives you a good vibe?

They feel not too much intentionated, like with a relaxed tone.

The whole point of giving your opinion is that you are supposed to actually give an opinion.

Ok?

populartajo

Yey, I get double analysis.

He switches his stance on alvinz95 pretty quickly.

I've already stated that there was something wrong with that post but now I feel that he's more and more the alvinz from another game I played with him

.
Uses a WIFOM defense of alvinz95("newbie scum wouldn't do that", lol).

Whats the problem with that point? Only scum use WIFOM?

He also links Evilgorillaz, Mellowed Man, and Cream147 pretty simply.

I sicnerely believe there's at least one scum in this group. Yes, believe me.

Two of the people didn't bandwagon the wagonhappy guy, big whoop. He seems to be shooting in the dark almost. I smell scum.

Fix your nose

.

Cream147
Makes strong attacks on alvinz95 which sound logical. Could be distancing though. I'm thinking protown.

Logical, WTF? Can you tell me why you find logical in his attacks?

Long quotes deserve bold.
Also, add Matt to the [Mellowed Man and Cream are scum] list.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Can you tell me what do you find logical in his attacks?

[populartajo]

Logical=/=right. Cream's logic that Elias isn't more likely to be scum than the other lurkers is logical. Being suspicious of someone because of an FOS that appears uncalled for is logical. Cream took the attack further than I would have, but he does a good job of keeping his arguments based on logic rather than lies and WIFOM.

Are you suggesting that Im lying? About the WIFOM thing, I've used it a million times as townie since its not 100% true but it can give us an idea of why is he doing or not doing that.
Also why do you think Cream took the attack further that you would have. That doesnt bother you?

I still think it's a pretty sudden switch for you to make.

And?

Again though, all they did was not bandwagon the guy who appeared to love bandwagoning.

Mmm, my suspcions about them go beyond that. Reread please.

Populartajo: Again, more aggressive then ive seen in the past, and unsure of how to interpret that. He was town there, but meh, I cant really decide what it means. I plan to reread that game. Um, like his posts for the most part, of the prodding and questioning style that is good for garnering info, but his reasons for suspecting people seem weak to me. His addition of Matt S to his scum list in particular was silly. Meh, so far a town to neutral read on him.

Why do you think its silly to add Matt to my scum list? Last time I heard about you, every people who suspected you were a group of retarded and should be scum. [/sarcasm]
In all seriousness, I still dont understand the base of his suspicions, going after me when there's evidently scummier players than me and he strangely avoids them.

[populartajo]

Oh, God, here we go again.

I may have called everyone retarded, but I said nothing about them all being scum. I said that selective ones were. Also, I was scum there, so its not something to compare you play with under the presumption that you are town.

Note the sarcasm tag.

Not understanding the base of his suspicions does not make HIM scum. He may be going after you because he would like to pressure you to get more info, or something of that nature. Your suspicion of him basically boils down to OMGUS imo, and the fact that he doesnt value the same tells that you do. Thats silly.

He votes for me to pressure me. All OK with him.
I might be doing the same thing and Im silly.
ORLY?

[populartajo]

Could you please read my posts?
If you think the vote for Matt_s was an OMGUS one or even an extension of this, then the silly are you. Really.

[populartajo]

The lying part was simply an alternative to logic. The only thing related to you is the WIFOM. While using WIFOM can help get a feel for why a person's acting some way, it can also be wrong, and using it only when you think it's right simply leads to confirmation bias. If you think it's useful, there's probably other evidence against him that made you think that

Like what evidence? Debating about WIFOM is like WIFOM itself, we can go like forever.

No, it doesn't bother me because I think I tend to play safely. I've seen townies attack viciously before, so I see no reason to think there's anything necessarily wrong with how Cream acted.

Well it bothers me since Im really disliking his logic. Could you tell me where else did he act viciously against anyone else? Also, would someone attacking viciously would post something like

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I like people! I'm not intentionally lurking, though it's quite clear that I am lurking. I haven't got into the feel of this game yet. However, I have just gave it a quick reread and that has got me back into the swing of things. I am not liking alvinz at the moment for several reasons.

As I've mentioned, I'm withdrawing out of my argument with alvinz. I agree with the general consensus that there really is no point now.

I alsol play safely and even you think he took the attack far too much. But why? Theres something, strange, dont you think?

Unvote

.

Vote : Cream147

It usually takes big things to make big flips. I didn't see anything big before you changed your mind, which makes me think your suspicions weren't well based.

First of all I never hardly suspected Alvinz, I simply said that I didnt like his first posts, like they felt something wasnt right, but as the game progressed he seemed to be more protown, (the agressive style from his previous game), specially when he answered to Cream accusations. So I still dont see the big flip you're talking about.

Well, your suspicions of Mellowed Man look to be because he has suspicions of alvinz95 that you don't have, and your suspicions of Cream147 seem to be because you dislike his logic. Overall, it still looks to me like you're linking them together for having different suspicions that you do.

To me, weak logic + strange attacks = scummy in my book.

And I've done a reread of CoheedCambria09. My opinion is largely unchanged, but I'd like more contributions from him. He seems to either go on gut or follow other people's logic most of the time. I don't think he's a good play for today.

Finally we agree at something.
Also I would like to know why is Gaspode voting for Alvin and if the no voters would vote for someone, who would it be.

[populartajo]

No need for a prod.
Im very tired atm, can anyone tell me what has happened in the last 2-3 pages?
Im still thinking in lynching either Cream or Mellowed. This might change with the reread Im doing tomorrow but I doubt it.
Also noticing Gaspode and Matt doing some serious attacks against Alvinz, where did this suspicions start?

[populartajo]

Well my target just left.

Scum list (In no particular order):
CoheedCambria
Alvinz
Cream

Deciding between Alvinz and Cream, my vote would have gone to Cream if Alvinz hadn't started acting scummy all over again.

Can you show me this scummy behavior?
You all know Id pick Cream or Mellowed. Maybe, maybe Matt.
And I agree with someone that said that this game has become a bit repetitive for my taste. To regain conversation, how about everyone posting their top suspects. Cool?

[populartajo]

Can you show me this scummy behavior?

Top of the page.

You're so lazy and Im so hypocrite.
Can you tell me what feels scummy?

[populartajo]

Hmm. I should get caught up in this game.

Prob. Me too. Again, people, can you list your top suspects and why.?

[populartajo]

Urgh.
I guess ill put a temporary vote on tajo to get him to stop fishing and post.

Unvote, Vote: Populartajo

And where is coheed? Thought he was supposed ot be back today.

Fishing? I only asked to post top suspects since we're pretty desorganized. For Skruffs, you already know who I do suspect. Check my posts. Nothing has changed.

[populartajo]

WHy is Gaspode so against Alvinz?

[populartajo]

Popular, the last time you put any effort into scum hunting in the game was in APRIL. Has ANYTHING triggured any sort of changes in your opinions since then?

Not much. I still think that there's scummy behavior in both Mellowed Man and Cream posts.
Mellowed scummy actions : Suggesting Iamuseraname and alvinz are like a pair, players that I dont find scummy at all - Forgetting about what he said - Voting for a newbie - Confirming his vote agains Matt with no explanation at all.
Mellowed, can you comment about this?
---------------
Cream scummy actions : Sudden change of thought about alvinz. - Extremely agressive against him but I havent seen this behavior against other player. - He thinks Mellowed Man is scummy but hasnt jumped against him like he would have.
----------------
Anyways. Im also interested in Gaspode attacks against Alvinz. I mean all D1, this guy must hate him or must see something we aren't.
Evilgorrilaz should explain more his voting, BTW.

Marmalade hasnt posted in a while so Id like the Mod to prod them.

Liking so far Iamausername and Skruffs. Alvinz seems sincere to me. Neutral about Matt and Coheed.
Also, I think we shouldn't let people lurk, cough, Elias, cough. He doesnt need a prod, hes prob watching right now.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Love my grammarhh
Anyways. Im also interested in Gaspode attacks against Alvinz. I mean all D1, this guy must hate him or must see something we DON´T.

[populartajo]

I don't have a whole lot of time at the moment, so I can't quote specific things. However, I know how frustrating it is to not get a response, so I'll give a brief summary now, and hopefully have time to specify later today.

I don't think I'm being all that extreme in my posts against Alvinz. I gave my main reasons for voting him way back, and he never really refuted them. He didn't even respond to them until at least page 15 or so, and even then, all he gave was a sentence or two in defense. If I vote for someone, I expect a response--I'm not going to unvote just because time passes. My main "attacks" after the initial ones have been requests for a response.

However, as I said a couple of days ago, I still need to reread. His recent posts have seemed a bit less scummy, but I haven't read enough to be sure yet.

Do you suspect anyone else?

[populartajo]

I'm gonna be gone until Monday.

Lies.

[populartajo]

On a more happy note, I was looking through everyones' avatars and knew what some were, that made me happy ^^.

EvilGorillaz = lelouch and C.C. from Code Geass (anime)
Populartajo = Art of Damnation (Magic cards)
Iamusername = Cylon (sp?) drone from Battlestar Galatica (TV show)

Our of curiosity, who knows what mine is?

I sincerely have no idea. Buy knowing Magic cards oficially makes you my favorite mod.

[populartajo]

Unvote, Vote: Coheed

Either Coheed or popular is the vote for the day, neither of these playeres are really going out there and stating their observations. Let's just do this.

Wow. Almost 20 pages and you can only make a case about people not stating their observations. Im dissapointed, Skruffs.
What about Elias?

[populartajo]

've made my opinions clear about everyone that I *have* an opinion on. You and Coheed are being the LEAST helpful, directly OR indirectly. You have no right ot be disappointed because my cases have all been made, you were just too busy trolling for opinions to actually read, respond, and contribute in regards to them.

Oh yes, that definitely makes me scum.
Bah, Skruffs. Accept your post was a lazy attempt to bring suspicions to me and Coheed. I have no idea why would you do that. Read the thread. Read my posts. All that I had to say was already said.
If not being helpful its your reason for voting, then why dont you have nothing to comment about Elias or the people that actually post but dont add anything to the game, then?
Let me do a reread to find out if its even worthy to vote for you.

[populartajo]

Bah, Skruffs. Accept your post was a lazy attempt to bring suspicions to me and Coheed. I have no idea why would you do that. Read the thread. Read my posts. All that I had to say was already said.

Hypocritical much?

?

[populartajo]

@Tajo
Basically, in a lot of your recent posts you have been iterating "why do you suspect this" and "who do you think is scummy" even though the answers are often only a few posts back (most notably how you asked Gaspode what his case was even though he summed it up only a few posts back).

Not saying its really scummy, but its worth noting.

@Skruffs
I am a bit confused about your recent comments.

A few pages back, you were insistent on a Cream, Matt_S, and Alvinz scum group (or something like that).
1. Are those three acting any more townish?
2. Does tajo's and coheed's recent play appear so scummy that those two jumped over the previous three?
3. The town does not seem to wish to lynch any of the previously mentioned three, even though you want to, so you switched your suspicions onto someone who might be lynched? (Not likely but I have seen people switch their attention to someone else because their original target wasn't going to be lynched anytime soon)
4. Any combination of the above three reasons?

Evilgorrilaz, is it so hard to make these kind of posts more frequently?
Thats the thing that bothers me about Skruffs. He has voted for me because Im not being HELPFUL. When I asked people (twice) for their top suspects was a way to gain conversation and possible information of people not talking or active lurking. I dont know whats so wrong with that.
His vote bothers me. I dont know if it means he's scum having problems deciding a good target or just a bored townie.
Skruffs, why do I deserve a vote?

[populartajo]

Skruffs you need to get glasses because I did say who my top suspects were. I dont know where did you get the idea of flying beneath the radar.
Read, we're pretty desorganized. This only benefits scum. We should concentrate in one suspicious case (like Cream's or Mellowed's or [insert your top suspect here] to gain conversation or we're not going anywhere, like the last 2-3 pages.
If you want my opinion, I still think Cream is a healthy lynch. You can read my case about him some posts of mine ago. Mellowed is the next one. Ditto. Gaspode is also worrying me. He has been against Alvinz all the game. And finally it still bothers me why Skruffs thinks I deserve a vote.
Just wondering Skruffs, can you tell me who Elias top suspects are?

[populartajo]

unvote, vote populartajo

I'll be okay with his lynch. Sounds good to me, better than any other cases, and when someone makes plays like that in this game, there's no way we can let him get back into the game.

More votes on him, please.

Oh you are still angry. Take it easy, MM.
Seriously can you and Coheed explain me why am I a good lynch? Whats the "OMG he's scum" thing Ive done?
Also, Coheed's last post doesnt sound good to me. He's fine with my lynch . Why?

FoS : Coheed.

[populartajo]

Unvote. Vote : Elias

Reason : It feels good doing it (x2) and Im sick of his lurking.

[populartajo]

Unvote. Vote : Elias

Reason : It feels good doing it (x2) and Im sick of his lurking.

Is this all you can come up with over 20 pages? Quite weak, really.

LMAO

[populartajo]

Mod, what about some prods : Elias, Marmalade?

They probably need replacement.
I havent seen Lain yet but does it look like that Death Note? Also I love the OP song, Duvet from Boa, I guess?

[populartajo]

Claiming cop being scum is a dumb play unless he wants to trade a cop for his life. So if theres any possibility of a real cop, HE SHOULDNT COUNTERCLAIM.
Having said that, I believe Coheed's claim. Also, his frustration doesnt seem faked. Id suggest people voting for him to unvote and to let him have the possibility of "investigating" someone tonight.
Its up for scum to kill him (it depends wether they have a Roleblocker or not) but we're definitely not lynching Coheed today.

[populartajo]

I'll wait for the rest of the town to check in with any possible counterclaims before voting, but I highly prefer Mellowed Man over populartajo.

Do you want the real cop to counterclaim? Why?
@Cream : Why am I a worthy alternative?

[populartajo]

Because if Coheed's scum then he should die? I'd find a counterclaim several days later to be less believable. Who knows if there's a cop? My complete game here didn't have a cop, which the town only found out once a dead watcher and tracker showed up.

If you are doubting that there is a cop then why are you expecting someone to counterclaim?

Unvote. Vote : Matt_s

[populartajo]

Yay for activity

[populartajo]

True, well, then I'm just gonna investiage someone, if there scum I'll say, If I investigated town I'll keep quiet and try to find scum throughout the day

No. You tell us everything you get.

HAY GUYS, THERE'S ABOUT 7 OF US HERE, LET'S ALL SPEEDLYNCH ELIAS! Very Happy

It sounds good.

Unvote. Vote : Elias.

[populartajo]

Even if its a power roll?

I bet Matt_s is going to post before but I dont care. Cop is supposed to get only guilty or innocent.

[populartajo]

Even if its a power roll?

I bet Matt_s is going to post before but I dont care. Cop is supposed to get only guilty or innocent.

lol

I told people in another game that I'd be less active in the summer. Stop making me look like a liar.

Lol, no problem. Care to join me against Elias?

[populartajo]

Care to join me against Elias?

No, I'm

a rebel

scum!

Fixed.

[populartajo]

Care to join me against Elias?

No, I'm

a rebel

scum

superman!

Fixed.

Refixed

Id like to keep fixing but I have to take a shower. Lynch ELias, OKBAYTHX?

[populartajo]

Populartajo, I find that you have a completely different type of game in this than in 556. No scumhunting, just hanging around. Scum?

Alvinz you were the cop in that game, remember?
Its an ongoing game (do you still check it?) where Im still alive although Im a confirmed townie, so I dont know if its against the rules to talk about it.

Mod?, anyone with more experience?

For the moment, I bet you cant compare that game with this one. Larger games' D1s are almost "random" compared with Newbie Games's D1s. Speciallly this one that was somehow boring. Also in NG you can make decent cases about anyone while here is pretty hard to catch every little detail of everyone.
Finally, this "hanging around" you're talking about was caused by the joyness of seeing activity in the thread. I bet you cant find it in my other posts. Although Im partially serious with pressuring Elias.

[populartajo]

If that's an ongoing game, you're not supposed to talk about it outside its own thread.

Dang I keep being Sarnath'ed like hell.

Although Im partially serious with pressuring Elias.

Prods work just fine.

Prod : Elias.

(this is like the third time) Fine?

[populartajo]

I'm terribly sorry to inform everyone of this, but I feel a real need to leave the site. I have lost all interest in mafia a while ago, and with my busying schedule, I can't find the time to do something I'm not interested in.

I have asked to find a replacement mod asap. I know I've been a fairly bad mod over the course of this game anyway, and wish for this game to continue properly.

Thank you for your understanding.

Dont worry Miztef. Take your time. Dont press yourself to do something you're not interested. But Im sure you'll come back.
For the replacement mod can I suggest Patrick?

[populartajo]

Hi Patrick.

I posted in this forum earlier in order to avoid replacement. I have not been having a good time of it in RL. If you care, see that I've only been posting in response to prods for a while and the game I'm modding is briefly stalled. You can wagon me if you want but I should be back into it sometime over the weekend.

Hey, hope things get better.
Anyways Ive decided that Cream should be town for that "HELP US, WHAT SHOULD WE DO NOW" post, a while ago. Therefore lets try to press a player that, I think, hasnt been pressed the way he should. Check some of my posts for exact reasons.

Unvote. Vote: Mellowed Man.

[populartajo]

ARe you sure that's not a "Let me try and push this back onto an easy wagon from earlier without actually contributing" post right there?

Wasup bored townie? If I didnt want to contribute I wouldnt have posted anything.
Mellowed is my second suspect. I dont see why I shouldnt vote him. You?

[populartajo]

You know,

Unvote

. This evilgorrilaz thing could turn into a better alternative.

The funny thing is that you werent voting for anyone.
This evilgorrilaz thing is interesting. I'm still not sure. Does Skruff think Evilgorrilaz is scum for joining a bandwagon of a person he thinks is scummy?
Skruff realli likes to read every little detail. Any necessity of that excesive scumhunting behavior?

[populartajo]

He's not in any danger, is he?
Ive also seen him posting in his other games but here.
Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.
And Im almost drunk.

[populartajo]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

[populartajo]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

Evil hops onto an easy bandwagon(Mellowed), with the reason being that Mellowed hopped onto an easy bandwagon. At least I think that's how it's going.

Its logical, isnt it? I guess many people were voting MM for this very same reason (me included).

[populartajo]

Also I still dont see whats the wrong thing about Evilgorrilaz.

Can you explain me?

Evil hops onto an easy bandwagon(Mellowed), with the reason being that Mellowed hopped onto an easy bandwagon. At least I think that's how it's going.

You're a little off the mark. What makes evilgorillaz' action scummy is that he critcises other people for joining the easy wagon of Mellowed Man, yet joins it himself.

When did this happen?

[populartajo]

But you still unvoted and then "almost" voted him. Why?

[populartajo]

Define good wagon.

[populartajo]

Cream, why do you suspect Mellowed Man?

[populartajo]

I hate to do this but

unvote.

We just asked for a prod. Right, Patrick?

Ill give him 1-2 more days to claim. And I think we shouldnt rush things. This only benefits scum if MM is town. And if he's scum we will know.

[populartajo]

I'll give him a few more days. It'll sure suck if he has to get replaced.

That would be a 9/10 on the suckage scale. What would we do with his replacement if that happened?

Prob the same thing we're asking MM to do?

[populartajo]

Does Skruff always plays like that? I mean, catching every little tiny detail?

[populartajo]

Whoa! Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Unvote. Vote : Gaspode.

Okthxbai.

[populartajo]

Whoa! Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Unvote. Vote : Gaspode.

Okthxbai.

I have a few ideas for why you did that, but just to make sure we're on the same page, could you explain? I think it has something to do with the fact that he's commenting on progress that he didn't contribute to.

653 is full of scumtells. Choose one. GO.

[populartajo]

Um. I feel no reason to claim, as I don't think there's really a case on me, unless you all claim that voting and unvoting people while pondering is deemed a serious scumtell.

I strongly suspect Populartajo right now, for his vote on Gaspode. He seems to want to avoid voting me.

I've seen this before.

Unvote. Vote : Mellowed Man.

If he's scum Gaspode is pretty much his partner.

[populartajo]

I think Gaspode should come here and hammer him.
@MM, claim.

[populartajo]

populartajo:
stop trying to orchestrate a quicklynch and answer this:
Where did you see that before?

You should ask other people in the wagon why are they still voting for Mellowed Man and not trying to blame me for your "quicklynch".
And the "Ive seen this before" was an ironic phrase. Why does MM have the necessity to explain his "I strongly suspect populartajo", yet keeping his vote in Elias, if all his recent votes have been almost reasonless?

[populartajo]

populartajo:
stop trying to orchestrate a quicklynch and answer this:
Where did you see that before?

I can't believe I'm siding with you. popular, putting someone at L-1 and then suggesting that someone hammer them, before getting a claim no less, is... well, dumb.

Uhh, that was a way to bring Gaspode back to the game. Whats wrong with my L-1? If MM is scum then his scumpartners wont hammer him. If he's town then the hammer is pretty much scum. We dont have "newbies" here.

[populartajo]

Especially at the same time, I am getting flack for not being anti-MM from the onset. I reserve the right to be hesitant about a lynch. Simply saying "IT'S BEEN TWO MONTHS" means nothing, especially since.

MM: I'm not defending you. I'm attacking scummy behaviors. You should start being productive, like, by claiming, or actually making a case against someone. I don't care how busy you are, RL.

Rishi: You're exhibiting severe hesitancy on my behalf, not for that first part, but the second part that is bolded.

You are defending me, and you have a right to, but I suppose you have really no real reason to believe I'm town OR scum. It's really all up in the air.

Also, you have changed your mind that I shouldn't claim b/c it's not the objective, to "I think you should claim" except you said it in a subtle way.

You're afraid that if I come up town you might be responsible, because you seemed to know that I am town.

unvote, vote Skruffs

Who is Rishi?

[populartajo]

Mellowed Man, Ive seen this kind of behavior (throw shit to everyone I can) before. Any reason for that?

[populartajo]

Triple post FTW.

PopularTajo: You are saying I need to question other people on his wagon?
I think it's amusing that you hop right on behind them , then tell me to look at them, while you ask a THIRD person to accompany you on the lynch wagon. *YOU* don't seem to care why the other people are on that wagon - and you want me to. That's just...
scummy.

Lol, Skruffs. Paranoid much?
I have suspected MM since when, the begining of the game? I told you to look at the other people in the wagon because a)Im not in their heads and I dont make them to vote for MM and b) if he at the end comes up town then there's at least one of them, possibly two, in the wagon.
I also want him to claim and in NO SERIOUS reason I wanted Gaspode to hammer him. It was a way to bring him back (he promised to) with some interesting pressure. He seems to be conveniently lurking and that post, that EVERYONE ignores, is full of scumtells. You cant be that blind.
You seem to blame me if MM is lynched but you dont care about other people in the wagon and the worst thing, you just cant think MM is scum, and that's just....
scummy.

[populartajo]

The above post doesnt make sense. At all.

I didnt find that post from Gaspode that scummy.

Elias you lose all your powers when you're town. Let me show you.

Whoa!

Notice the fakeness of this introduction

. Finally things have happened! Now this is actually a mafia game.

Interesting reason for posting after some nice lurking

Unfortunately, I've done nothing since my last post other than skim the thread for words like "claim" and "lynch", so I don't really know what's going on

he doesnt know what's going on

, but good job getting something to happen, guys!

but good job guys lynching MM!

I have my last paper of the term due in the next 24 hours or so, then I'll hopefully catch up and give my input.

Lies

[/finally interested]

Notice the fakeness of this conclusion

Also I find it interesting that MM isnt mentioned in this post when MM is the famewhore tonight and the fact that this post doesnt tell us anything /active lurking to avoid suspicions.

[populartajo]

. Of the two claims, I'd have to give Coheed's more weight since he can get investigations. Now, this is definitely one of those times where a counterclaim isn't appropriate. .

That doesn't really make sense. Coheed as scum would know who's town, etc. and could just say "so and so is innocent" and be right about it, right?

Wow, MM. So you're doubting Cohhed's claim and want us to believe you?
Risky move as scum MM. If there's a real doctor dont counterclaim, this guy is pretty much dead today if he's indeed the doctor.

Unvote.

Im not going to lynch a claimed doctor.
And MM you knew how a doctor should play. If you're town, you just keep fucking the games where I am, seriously.
In other news, I think Gaspode needs to be here and explain what he thinks. I still dont like him. Also, Cream sometimes seem to agree with everyone. I dont know what this means yet.

[populartajo]

Has Alabaska J posted anything since replacing marmalade, or is he keeping quiet like his predecessor?

Nothing else to comment, Coheed?

Mod Prod : Gaspode

[populartajo]

mmkay.

vote: alvinz96

Elias and tajo, you are also scummy to me. It is late where I am, this is all I have time to post.

Porntime

Bedtime!

Why do alvinz seems more suspicious than Elias and me? Because he's easy to lynch? Are you saying that he's scum based in his relationship with Elias or did he do anything else that catched your mind?
Nothing to comment on Mellowed Man, Coheed or Matt? I expected a big post. Could you do that?
---------------------
For all the wagoners I still think Alvinz isnt scum. OMGUS is dumb not scummy. And he still looks to me like the agressive silly cop in NG556 (I can finally cite it since it recently finished). Cream's reasons are pretty sucky IMO and does anybody think MM's play is how a doctor should play?

[populartajo]

WARNING : LONG POST.

Coheed should report now. Unless he was roleblocked.

Reading the flavor of the kill tells us that its very possible that we have a SK since they usually use knives (stabbing) instead of mafia weapons, right?

Assuming we have a SK why did he try to kill a claimed doctor when obv scum would do that? I can only think in a newbie or first time as SK.

Alvin coming up scum puts us in nice advantage. The following post should tell us many many things. I guess it was Alvinz's first time as scum so he probably made the typical newbie scum mistakes.

a) A heavily suspected person in his list isnt probably his scumpartner. (however take in count that he could be the SK).
b) Neutral players or players with no reads are possible scumpartners.
c) Townie players in his list could probably be scum but there are more possibilities that they are players difficult to make a case against.

Let's see.

Urrrghh! I just had a nice long analysis of everyone, then the internet died!

Evilgorrilaz

: The least townly because of his likeness of bandwagons. Dangerous if he successfully starts a bandwagon. Good person to look out for.

Evilgorrilaz isnt his scumpartner. 90%.

Populartajo

: Something fishy about his last post. Seems to be giving limited information, and trying to start a wagon on me, by asking everyone if they thought my comment was weird. (can you explain?) You usually post a lot more in depth. Are you trying to hide something? And is your vote on evilgorrilaz a random vote or a serious vote?

Obv I know I am town and this heavy suspicion also, using the logic above, confirms me 90% as not his scumpartner.

Gaspode

: Overall seems the most townly, but I'm not entirely convinced yet, since it is at the beginning of the game. By the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Gaspode is an intesting case. He's 100% not Alvinz scumpartner since he was after him all the fucking game.Howver, I think that if someone is the SK then he could be. I have a bad feeling about him

Marmalade

: So far, hasn't elaborated on comments. (Most are one sentence long). Too little to tell. Leaning town.

Mmmm. Alvinz first case (communicatin in thread) was against me and Marmalade. Then, Alabaska suspected both Elias and Alvinz as scumpartners. So this probably means Marmalade isnt his scumparnter.

Mellowed Man

: Has done some controversial things, which could go as newbish, unless he consistently does them. Vote hops, can't see a real reason to vote, just because coheed said he was a newbie, besides being scummy, or newbish. Second most scummy.

Sorry, NAR. RIP

Ashmite

: Can't really tell, hasn't done anything townly, so I'm leaning more on the scum side.

mmmm, this probably tells us Ashmite, Skruffs, isnt his scumpartner but Im not too sure, as Alvinz seems to feel about him.

iamausername

: Leaning towards town, though his vote on evilgorrilaz is quite ironic. not much left to say...

Mmmm, although Alvinz reads imausername as town he doesnt feel too confident about him. We have a possible scumpartner.

This is the interesting section

CoheedCambria09

: I'm thinking newbish, could go either way, not much to analyze.

Another possible scumpartner

Cream147

: hasn't posted anything besides a random vote. Prod?

He has been strongly against Alvinz for some part of D1. This almost confirms him as not his scumpartner but he could be the SK for backtracking after their argument.

Hypatia

: hasn't posted anything besides "I don't random vote" post. Prod?

Elias_te_thief

: No posts. Prod?

These last two posters (Hypatia, Matt and Elias) are at the end for not posting. We should look for more info, lets see.

About Hypatia, Matt_s

No commets until she got replaced. This post is interesting.

I really dislike his stance on Elias_the_thief. He seems to be trying to get an easy wagon on somebody experienced. Besides that, he has been unimpressive. Pretty scummy.

A wagon? Why would I want to start a wagon on Elias? He probably is one of the contributors and starting a wagon on him would be untownly! And every knows that it was crap-logic, but seriously, it wasn't for a wagon, for a lynch, or any means of scum hunting, and I was just trying to contribute. You can go ahead and call that comment "a means off brushing it off", but If i were to try to let it slide, I would just have ignored it.

Here comes a sincere attack. This probably tells me Matt isnt his scumparnter.

So are you teamed with her or are you scum pals? Or do just a liking to very bad back-up?

I'm not liking your first post, because you have allied with cream, or scum partners, and you don't give much support in saying that almost everyone is scummy except coheed, cream, iamausername, marmalade. Nice.

Fos: Matt S

About Elias

I agree. I leaning towards Elias because he is definitely experienced, (2128 posts!), and his scum record is considerably high and has been scum 11 times (not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might! ). IC's usually won't lurk like that. I

'm not sure at all, but if there is one scum in those group of lurkers, then I'd say Elias.

Lucky for now, but....

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias. I'm not starting a wagon at all. I was just agreeing with Gaspode on the lurker opinion and giving a thought on it. Non of that was "evidence" to support a Elias lynch, because he is BY FAR, not on my scum list, because lynching someone just because they are lurking is not townly at all, especially if they have only posted one thing. The scum record was just tagged in for fun hence the parenthesis and "not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might" which shows that it was merely a small joke.

Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner. Now that we know Alvinz is scum I think this post pretty much tells us that Elias could be scum, (notice the unsureness of "hey it might") but he's not on his scum list BY FAR, although his previous post said that he was leaning toward Elias.

Elias wagon? Hmmmmm.... just for fun. xD Vote: Elias the Thief Obviously temporary until I pick up some more scummy stuff.

Make sense now.

[populartajo]

In conclusion and for the people who hate to read.

Possible nonscumpartners (take in count that they could be the SK) :
Evilgorrilaz, Gaspode, Marmalade, Cream, Matt_s.

Possible scumpartners (they could also be the SK) : imausername, Coheed (I forgot he claimed cop so Im wating for his response), Skruffs, Elias the thief.

Possible SK : Gaspode, Cream.

I only based this post in Alvinz actions so if you want to post anything sincere about your relationship with Alvinz that could help us to reduce the possibilities, go ahead.

Im deciding Elias relationship with Alvinz is too strange to be true. Here we go again.

Vote : Elias the thief

[populartajo]

The SK (And it is most likely an SK, serial killers traditionally STAB to death, where as vigs have shootings or bludgeonings) is a threat to the mafia, so the mafia will be trying to focus attention on the SK.

Fos: Cream

Fos: populartajo

for saying coheed should only report unless he was RB'd. Coheed should decide, himself, if he wants to reveal any results he may have gotten, and if he WAS roleblocked, he DEFINITELY should say as such. If he has an innocent, he may not want to report until the day has progressed some.

Fos: cream

again for the equivalent of "Good job doctor" except at Alvinz.


More later! I wasn't even aware day had ended until this morning.

Actually, I was saying that Coheed should report any results right now, thats my opinion. If he was roleblocked then its obvious that he has no info, right? If he has a guilty, dont you want to know who he is?
Any comments in Elias?

[populartajo]

Well, I came home today and logged in and saw this game was day again, but guess what, no pm from patty. So I come in here and see that Mellowed was killed I had investigated him after he cliamed doc (two power claims, suspicious) and i assumed thats why I never got a pm telling me his alignment.

Mmmm.

[populartajo]

Popular, your post on the Alvinz/Elias connection is very convincing. You picked up things I wouldnt have. I'll have to keep a closer on on elias today.

What was the "mmmm." meaning? It kind of confused me to as how you felt.

Mmmm = thinking.
Any reason why you investigated MM? Who was your second option and why?

[populartajo]

I will have a detailed post later today explaining exactly why this connection case is retarded and probably lead by scum tajo. tata for now.

Lulz. Retarded FTW again? This should be fun. I want my revenge.

[populartajo]

I investigated MM because of the doc claim. The claim seemed suspicious to me. To power roles in one day seems unlikely.

Second in line was Evilz. No particular reason other than I have been suspicious of him (gut feeling) and it would bring closure for me to know where he stood.

Fair enough. I believe your claim.

[populartajo]

I will have a detailed post later today explaining exactly why this connection case is retarded and probably lead by scum tajo. tata for now.

Lulz. Retarded FTW again? This should be fun. I want my revenge.

At the expense of the town?

You know Im not scum Elias.
If you were town you wouldnt suspect me. And you dont need a detailed post to say why that connection is retarded and why I am scum, unless you exactly dont know what to say.

[populartajo]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

[populartajo]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

[populartajo]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

You are simply restating what I'm asking you about!

WHY

would he think you are not scum??

What exactly do you want? There are many reasons why he would think I am not scum. The one Im looking for is that he's probable scum, therefore he knows my allingment, although he could be town playing poorly but I doubt it knowing him as scum. My point is why he, assuming he's town, would say this is all orchestrated by tajoscum when my case is extremely decent against him.

[populartajo]

Well, I came home today and logged in and saw this game was day again, but guess what, no pm from patty. So I come in here and see that Mellowed was killed I had investigated him after he cliamed doc (two power claims, suspicious) and i assumed thats why I never got a pm telling me his alignment.

Assuming you're telling the truth, make sure you ask him for your result. It will help with finding your sanity immensely.

And popular, didn't you say that you thought alvinz was town yesterday?

People get bad reads. Alvinz early play (defense against Cream is notable) was very similar to the silly cop in NG556. What are you trying to say?

[populartajo]

by detailed i mean more than two sentences and I'm too busy to write it now i have a chem final tomorrow and studying takes precendence, ive just been on the site once in a while to check on things. Thinking youre scum makes me scum? How does that one work?

IMO, you're scum for the strange relationship you had with Alvinz all D1. Blaming me and calling me scum for "leading" a decent case against you didnt help you very much. Using that logic, anyone that had catched that interaction would have been scum? See my point?
Check my big post for details about that interaction but if you want a summary its pretty obvious that Alvinz tried to bus you subtly at the beginning of the game ("hey, it might") but when things seemed to get out of control he almost defends you.

I agree. I leaning towards Elias because he is definitely experienced, (2128 posts!), and his scum record is considerably high and has been scum 11 times (not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might! ). IC's usually won't lurk like that.

I'm not sure at all, but if there is one scum in those group of lurkers, then I'd say Elias.

This is his inmediate next post:

I don't think Elias is scum at all (lynch all lurkers is a bad policy), but, what I meant was that if there was scum in that group then I would say Elias. I'm not starting a wagon at all. I was just agreeing with Gaspode on the lurker opinion and giving a thought on it.

Non of that was "evidence" to support a Elias lynch, because he is BY FAR, not on my scum list, because lynching someone just because they are lurking is not townly at all, especially if they have only posted one thing.

The scum record was just tagged in for fun hence the parenthesis and "not like it has anything to do with this game, but hey, it might" which shows that it was merely a small joke

We have already stated that Alvinz was probably scum for the first time and that "neutral-almost townie- I dont have a read" players are his possible scumpartners.

[populartajo]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

You are simply restating what I'm asking you about!

WHY

would he think you are not scum??

What exactly do you want? There are many reasons why he would think I am not scum. The one Im looking for is that he's probable scum, therefore he knows my allingment, although he could be town playing poorly but I doubt it knowing him as scum. My point is why he, assuming he's town, would say this is all orchestrated by tajoscum when my case is extremely decent against him.

My god popular, you are not making any sense. Let me try this one more time. If he is town, why

wouldn't[

he think you're scum? Just because your case is "good" doesn't mean you can't be scum. Can you

please

correctly answer my question.

This pyramid is making no sense.
Look, Alabaska I dont think he's town therefore he knows my allignment.
Yes, he could be town (Ive been wrong many times) but I seriously doubt it. The way Alvinz has behaved D1 when talking about him is too strange and sometimes contradictory. (Check my big post for details) Rereading the game, I thought this was a good case and Im waiting for his response with the pressure he deserves.
My case is good, any people could have done that with D1 information. In fact Im sure many people agree with me here.
Does that agreement make all scum? Does the pointing of this case make me inmediately scum?
Well, Elias seems to think I am. Why dont you ask him what does he think of you?
I dont understand what you want. Seriously.
Do you think Im scum,. Ok, push my case, Ill try to answer everything you want, becuase its OBVIOUS my relationship with Alvinz is not the best of the world, but that DOESNT mean you're inmediately scum, do you get my point?

[populartajo]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

I dont know what do you want. Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER? I believed alvinz was town yesterday. Did you read the game I was refering to? Now, of course that Alvinz coming up scum tells us TODAY many things and all his posts should be analysed with extreme attention.
People, look at this way. It was probably alvinz's first time as scum, therefore he made the typical newbie mistakes and its a safe assumption to think that everyone that he suspected really hard (spreading suspicions for posterior lynches) is now confirmed as non his scumpartners, and people who got reads as neutral or prob townies are people that we should look for.
This isnt too hard.

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

Yeah, if you know where to look.

I think Elias is a decent start. In fact Im pretty sure he's scum.

[populartajo]

Tell me one thing Matt. Can you have a read of a player that almost didnt play D1?
Ill post what Elias had to say about Alvinz.

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Also, I like Alvinz response.

This was probably a subtle way to support Alvinz and to give the impression that Cream was a possible good lynch.

Alvinz: Says he doesnt mind bandwagoning, next post fos's evil for bandwagoning. Contradict yourself much? Moves on to make some reaching attacks, specifically, about the Tajo-Marmalade connection, and his attacks on me for being a lurking IC. Backs off from initial attacks on me, defends himself *decently*, goes into useless squabble with Cream. I have a neutral to scum read on him.

Why the change of thought, Elias? Why is Alvinz now defenfing himself *decently*?

Alvinz: Who? Basically nothing up until page 16 so hard to read. Then a lot of wierd small posts. I have a neutral to scum read on him still.

Great. Nothing up until page 16 so hard to read.
Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed. I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.
Add this to what Alvinz thougt about him and voila, what do you get?
Elias is a decent case. Period.

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Jesus, Matt, I didnt push his lynch because my read all D1 was agressive silly townie. Why would I push his lynch?
Now can you point out those Cream's interactions? Im not seeing them.

[populartajo]

Tell me one thing Matt. Can you have a read of a player that almost didnt play D1?
Ill post what Elias had to say about Alvinz.

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Also, I like Alvinz response.

This was probably a subtle way to support Alvinz and to give the impression that Cream was a possible good lynch.

Or, it was a genuine praise of a decent response. Are you telling me that you didnt think that was a good response? If I recall, there was at least one other person who said the same thing, possibly two. This is completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Says he doesnt mind bandwagoning, next post fos's evil for bandwagoning. Contradict yourself much? Moves on to make some reaching attacks, specifically, about the Tajo-Marmalade connection, and his attacks on me for being a lurking IC. Backs off from initial attacks on me, defends himself *decently*, goes into useless squabble with Cream. I have a neutral to scum read on him.

Why the change of thought, Elias? Why is Alvinz now defenfing himself *decently*?

Because he made additional posts after the original response that were not as good? Again, completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Who? Basically nothing up until page 16 so hard to read. Then a lot of wierd small posts. I have a neutral to scum read on him still.

Great. Nothing up until page 16 so hard to read.
Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed. I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.
Add this to what Alvinz thougt about him and voila, what do you get?
Elias is a decent case. Period.

Um...I didn't push him because there were several players that I thought were scummier. This is your most retarded point yet.
"ZOMG WHY DIDNT YOU PUSH YOUR LIKE 4TH SUBJECT IS YOU SCUMBUDDIES?!"

Summary: genuine praise of a good response, followed by a genuine change of opinion after subsequent posts, followed by a failure to attack a suspect low on my list while attacking higher suspects. Is this honestly the best you can do? And listen: YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE, UNLESS YOURE A RETARDED TOWN OR SCUM. FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY ABOUT ME INDEPENDANT OF CONNECTION AND THEN I MIGHT SAY YOU HAVE A CASE.

Elias you know this isnt going to work twice.
1. Do you sincerely think that even if Alvinz had said "Elias is my 90% possible scumpartner" we should ignore him? Come on, read his posts and how they involve you. Its a DECENT connection.
2. Its hard to make a case against you when all D1 you have a)lurked to boredom b)write general comments about everyone and c)only push one case, conveniently.
My point is that Alvinz was a heavy suspected player. WHy not going after him if you thought he was a decent lynch? In fact, why not commenting anything about him in the last stage of the game? How convenient, lurking again.
3. Why so overdefensive, huh? Disliking my logic much?
4. What do you think of Skruffs?

[populartajo]

YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE

I pretty much disagree with this entirely. However, I don't think the alvinz/Elias connection is nearly as strong as the alvinz/Skruffs connection, and I think Skruffs also looks scummier independently.

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

I cant believe I missed that post. Im rereading and post my comments about it later. The fact that Skruffs has missed it makes me wonder.

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

Not everyone pushed as hard as you did that early on. It reminds me a lot of my first game as scum.

I dont think Cream and Alvinz (assuming it was their first time as scum) would have done that. Its too much fire attraction and an unnecessary one at that stage of the game.
Also could you link me to that first game?

[populartajo]

RL issues, will post ASAP. Posting this in all my games.1

[populartajo]

I sincerely dont see Cream-Alvinz.
I still think Elias is scum.

[populartajo]

I sincerely dont see Cream-Alvinz.
I still think Elias is scum.

good for you tajo. good for you. But next time, try supporting it.

LOL, I already did.
And you havent destroyed them for me. The Alvinz-Elias connection is IMO very powerful. The only problem is that you're good at scum and that you'll always have an excuse but meh, time will tell.
One question, when did Alvinz stop being town for you?
Just curious, am I still scum?

[populartajo]

Hi Xtoxm are you the SK?

[populartajo]

I hardly think that's any of your business...!

What makes you think we have an SK?

Ill let you reread first.

[populartajo]

Populartajo basically just claimed mafia, in other news.....

When did this happen?

[populartajo]

Hi Xtoxm are you the SK?

This post indicates that you already know that he is not in the mafia, and/or you are not interested in knowing if he is in the mafia. Trying to find the SK and not mafia is a mafia-tell.

This post indicates that you arent reading the thread or that you need some sleep.
......
Skruffs, what do you think of my Elias case?

[populartajo]

Already sent to the mod, but figured I'd post here too.

Starting monday, I'll be working at an overnight summer camp, and I'll probably only be able to post on weekends. If this is a problem, I can understand and will accept replacement, though I'd like to stay in the game. Sorry for the inconvenience.

I'm home now until sunday because of unforeseen medical problems, but due to the circumstances I won't be able to post exactly (I'll be heavily sedated most of the next couple days). So yeah. Just thought everyone should know I'll be inactive.

That's sad Elias. I was having a lot of fun geting you angry.
Actually I already know why you are scum.

[populartajo]

I repeat, I dont see Alvinz and Cream (notable newbies) fighting each other to death if they were both scum. It seems improbable to me. Therefore, Cream is prob town.
Doesnt anyone want to know how I just found out Elias is scum?

[populartajo]

Just noting how retarded you'll look if I'm lynched.

Elias seems to be so sure about me being townie. And how retarded Ill look if I get to lynch him.
Why cant I be scum? Will I look retarded if I get to lynch him?
His first reaction was to call me scum.
Now Im retarde townie.
This is what I call backpedaling.

[populartajo]

Alabaska is probably town. Rereading and pretending Im not populartajo, I see what he sees. It would probably be helpful to know that Elias was scum in my first game as a townie and that's why it sometimes feels like Im too familiar with him and such. (Appartenyl this is what I suppose Alabaska feels like busing)
@Alabaska English is not my native language, therefore I think I dont understand what you exactly want of that question. Can you rephrase it?
In other news, Elias is the play today, guys.
Skruffs is a good candidat too.

[populartajo]

Si!

[populartajo]

I know my actions were scummy but why I am scum for bringing a decent case to the table?
He could suspect me (its natural when someone attacks you) but he got extremely agressive when I wrote that post. At the level of his experience, he should've realized that I could have been a retarded townie. (Not that Im one but you get the point)
Finally, he realized. Add that he NOW thinks Im a retarded townie and you have a more than decent case.

[populartajo]

LOL at your traductor.

[populartajo]

A Skruffs lynch is still not part of my schedule for today, though I'm a little disappointed in Skruffs' play today compared to yesterday. It seems a bit OMGUSy. Oh, and an Elias lynch isn't on my schedule for today either, but I'm really just not seeing much of a case there. In other news, I'm bumping Cream down to below populartajo, because of Cream's good behavior lately.

So what

do

you want to do?

Lynch popular.

Wow, why?
What happened with Cream?

[populartajo]

Why I am scum Alabaska?

[populartajo]

Poro, who are you replacing?

[populartajo]

I agree that they make an unlikely pair but remember we have a SK and I have a bad feeling aobut Gaspode. Poro apparently is not reading the game.

FoS : Poro

Im feeling a little bad for Elias. I know he's busy and it would suck to ask for a replacement. I still think he's scum but I want to hear what he wants to say against my attacks. I even miss when he calls people retarted.
Also what happened to Skruffs. He usually posts more.

[populartajo]

Fuck Im wrong. Poro is replacing Evilgorrilaz.

[populartajo]

Skruffs, what do you think of my case against Elias?

[populartajo]

I can see a Matt vote too.

[populartajo]

EBWOP
Matt lynch*

[populartajo]

I don't recall hearing about this before, but I don't recall a lot of things.

I feel strangely left out of post 1059.

[populartajo]

Guess I was wrong with Elias. Sorry guys. Ill go wiith my second suspect.

Vote : Skruffs.

Reason : The only one makes sense killing imausername is him.

[populartajo]

vote: skruffs

I've decided this would be a good time for a pressure vote. L-2 will make him talk. PLEASE no one else vote yet.

I'm also gonna place down an

FoS: populartajo

in conjunction with my suspicions from yesterday.

Really Alabaska? If IRC yesterday you had a theory that I was scum with Elias and Alvinz. But Elias came up town. What suspicions are you talking about?
And yes no one votes for Skruff until he comes here.

[populartajo]

vote: skruffs

I've decided this would be a good time for a pressure vote. L-2 will make him talk. PLEASE no one else vote yet.

I'm also gonna place down an

FoS: populartajo

in conjunction with my suspicions from yesterday.

Really Alabaska? If IRC yesterday you had a theory that I was scum with Elias and Alvinz. But Elias came up town. What suspicions are you talking about?
And yes no one votes for Skruff until he comes here.

A situation that looks like a bus can also be scum pushing for the lynch of a townie. I stand by my feeling but now with a different interpretation.

How convenient. So am I always scum?

[populartajo]

Ive heard that a FoS is some form of subtle attack but hey you never know.

[populartajo]

vote: skruffs

I've decided this would be a good time for a pressure vote. L-2 will make him talk. PLEASE no one else vote yet.

I'm also gonna place down an

FoS: populartajo

in conjunction with my suspicions from yesterday.

Really Alabaska? If IRC yesterday you had a theory that I was scum with Elias and Alvinz. But Elias came up town. What suspicions are you talking about?
And yes no one votes for Skruff until he comes here.

A situation that looks like a bus can also be scum pushing for the lynch of a townie. I stand by my feeling but now with a different interpretation.

Is this a case?

[populartajo]

vote: skruffs

I've decided this would be a good time for a pressure vote. L-2 will make him talk. PLEASE no one else vote yet.

I'm also gonna place down an

FoS: populartajo

in conjunction with my suspicions from yesterday.

Really Alabaska? If IRC yesterday you had a theory that I was scum with Elias and Alvinz. But Elias came up town. What suspicions are you talking about?
And yes no one votes for Skruff until he comes here.

A situation that looks like a bus can also be scum pushing for the lynch of a townie. I stand by my feeling but now with a different interpretation.

Is this a case?

Not really. That is more of a summary of my beliefs. I haven't posted why I feel that or really any evidence today. It wasn't meant to be a case. Read: I'm not attacking you right now; I'm waiting for the whole Skruffs thing before even thinking about doing anything,

Fine.

[populartajo]

Why are we puting Skruffs at L-1 this fast?

Unvote.

[populartajo]

Answer the question please Xtoxm.

[populartajo]

I feel good with either Skruffs or Matt lynched.

[populartajo]

:/ shit forgot who you replaced.

unvote

You should stop being so cavalier though. Throwing off my scumdar.

Skruffs or pop today for me then.

vote: Skruffs

for now.

Hey why me?
I concur with Xtoxm. Id be really mad if Alabaska isnt town.

[populartajo]

Better question Matt. Why do you think Xtoxm and Skruffs are town?

[populartajo]

There is more that I need to say, but this is a good start. I think if other people looked at this, especially knowing that PopularTajo faked an assumption about Alvinz as a reason to both clear himself and to fake incriminate Elias. His eager vote on me in the beginning of the day after he took up Alvinz's case against Elias (successfully) just confirms to me that he is definitely mafia.

I think you're exagerating things a little bit. I admit I didnt research how many times Alvin had played as mafia BUT I know that his first game in the site was NG556, not much ago. In fact I could say that his next game was probably this. As I see, you like to research things that may incriminate me, but Ill bet a million dollars that you didnt read that game. Go read it and then come back to agree with me that his play as a newbie cop in that game feels similar to his play as scum here. He even posted his PM that modikilled him. Now my assumption was that it was probably his first time as scum and that he could have made the typical mistakes newbie scum do.
This is called scumhunting, dude. I pushed Elias case and he came up town. What do I do now? I push my second suspect.
As I said Skruffs is a decent lycnh. Id be very surprised if he's town. He has spent all the game pointing out little and sometimes silly things about almost all players. This last post is a good try but Im town, Skruffs.
Matt in the other hand makes me wonder. I can see him as scum but his last post feels extremely townie and I support now the pressure to Alabaska.

[populartajo]

Im EXTREMELY busy lately. Just catching up in all my games.
Lets look at this list, kay?

Alabaska J replaces Marmalade
Cream147
Matt_S replaces Hypatia
populartajo
Porochaz replaces Evilgorrilaz
Skruffs replaces ashmite84
Xtoxm replaces Gaspode

Now. We know Alvinz is scum and we have a SK left. We dont want to lynch the SK today.

Conclusions.
-I find Cream, Porochaz, and Xtoxm impossible candidats for scumpartners. See their behaviors D1. (Cream and Evilgorrilaz were likely targets for scum D1 and Gaspode attacked Alvinz all D1) As I said before, I think its valid to assume that Alvinz was newbie scum and therefore we cant expect some extreme tactics of bussing.
Notice that we can have the SK here. As I said earlier Id suspect Xtoxm more of the three since I had a feeling about Gaspode's D1 last post.

- This leaves Alabaska J, Matt and Skruffs as possible scumpartners. Im 90% sure that we have one scum here maybe both. I also think that we have only two more scum to go and one SK so we have to lynch one of these guys. Lately Ive been thinking about Alabaska and I feel hes playing more poorly than scummy. Also when he entered the game he suspected both Alvinz and Elias. Notice that he can also be the SK. Therefore, we only have to decide between Skruffs and Matt for the mafia lynch.

- Obviously I know Im town and therefore I sincerely think that we have to lynch Skruffs. Matt makes sense lately but I can see him as the other scumparnter, specially for the backtracking of my case when he replaced earlier. I definetely dont think any of them is the SK. Im picking Skruffs for this post

Alvinz, do you have any reason to think the mafia have a roleblocker?
I'm willing to vote Alvinz just for somehow thinking the mafia would have a roleblocker.

However he never votes for him and his next post is in D2. Notice also that its the first time he really suspects Alvinz. Nothing to comment about the nurse thing, also. When Id have expected at least a comment from a player so meticulous like him that jumped before against me, Evilgorrilaz and Matt for sillier reasons.

Vote : Skruffs

[populartajo]

Not enough time for answering to Skruffs.
I suck at Maths. How the hell can we, as town, win this game? Only if the SK and scum kill each other?

[populartajo]

But Im not mafia. You know something. Fuck it. Im the other lover. How about that Skruffs.

[populartajo]

Pop, you really didn't have to claim...Only AJ is pushing you and he's mafia...

Though looking through iam's, I think only you and me are the only ones he didn't attack at some point, and everyone's convinced i'm SK anyway...

I sincerely dont see scum killing me tonight. Im so the easy target.
And not only Alabaska was pushing my lynch. Skruffs and Matt were ready to vote for me.
Have we lost the game already now that scum knows I am the lover?

[populartajo]

Hmm... Cream, do you have any complete games as scum?

Matt, stop. Cream is not Alvinz scumpartner. He can be the SK but we dont want to do this today.

[populartajo]

Presumably, populartajo, you beign a lover means you will probably die after the lynch today (As it says "shortly thereafter" in the role pm), which makes being a lone-lover-suicide situation unremedyable by doctor protection. Regardless, I don't think you would h ave been targettd by scum anyways; you have been set up for a lynch tomorrow just like I have been for today.


BTW: What makes you completely sure that cream is not alvinz' partner?

The big fight they had D1. The fight that Matt still thinks shows them as possible scumparnters.
As I already said Alvinz attacked sincerely Cream, a possible easy target for scum at that time. I simply dont see them as scumpartners. Fighting against each other if they are both mafia in a situation where one has to be the winner and the other the loser is suicide for scum in D1.
Ok Skruffs I want to see the same dedication you had with me for your Matt case. Ready, go.

[populartajo]

Why do you think hes town?

[populartajo]

Im starting to have a bad bad feeling about Poro.

[populartajo]

Why do you think hes town?

I don't necessarily. Getting a neutral read.

Quotes?

[populartajo]

Yeh..I'm thinking AJ Matt scum and Poro SK.

Why not Skruffs
Fuck. Eveyone is so scummy.

[populartajo]

Nah I changed my mind on that one.

?

[populartajo]

Ok since Im dying tonight, I did a reread and came to the conclusion that Skruffs is 100% scum. Even before, when ashmite was in the game I can see a strange relation between him, posteriorky his sucesor Skruffs, and Alvinz. Specially ignoring him when he was doing scummy things and jumping in another easy targets at the time like Cream.
I can see if he has an answer to some question Iamusername posted D2.

Also, I meant to ask earlier, Skruffs; when you placed alvinz as top three scummiest, what was your reasoning for doing so? Why did you find him suspicious at that time?

He refers to this post. The context is that Skruffs is defending MM, (prob earning some townie points)

My scumlist:
Matt_S
Cream147
Alvinz95

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:10 am for reference.
...........
The SK is either Alabaska or Xtoxm, maybe Matt. Ive been thinking lately in Ala since Im really geting protown vibes from Xtoxm and really bad vibes from Alabaska.
.........
This would leave Poro, Matt and Cream as possible scumpartners. Since Poro was Evilgorrilaz I see this impossible. I find it very strange that Poro isnt posting but Evilgorrilaz was pretty townie at the last stages of D1. Im hoping for his posts.
.......
Cream is V/LA and we really need him posting. I dont see him as scum since he was the easy target for Skruffs and Alvinz almost all D1. But theres the tiny possibility of he being the SK.

Hopefully the NKs help us more.

But in all the possible scenarios, my verdict is :

Scum : Skruffs.
Please more votes on him.

[populartajo]

Also, Mod VC
and in case unvote vote: Skruffs

[populartajo]

How can you people be so blind? Read Alvinz post in isolation and you are going to get that the only person that makes sense as a scumpartner is Skruffs.
Sigh, lets do this.

People alive and their relations with Alvinz the Godfather

Alabaska J replaces Marmalade

Alvinz came up with a "scum communicating in thread" theory involving me and Marmalade at the beginning of D1. Marmalade didnt post much but at some time he suspected Alvinz. Then Alabaska replaced and came up with his Elias-Alvinz-Tajo theory. Soon after the wagon that finished in the nurse claim began.
Conclusion : Not many links. The attacks can be bussing though, taking in count that at one analysis Alvinz made, he attacked me for subtly suspecting him and left Marmalade when he was doing the same.

Cream147

Now pretty obvious here. Cream and Alvinz attacked each other to the point where one of them had to be scum. Alvinz was extremely sincere when attacking Cream and the later too.
Conclusion : not scumpartner.

Matt_S replaces Hypatia

Hypatia was a pretty strange player. I had a bad feeling about her. When Matt replaced he attacked me and then backtracked when I showed him that Cream was pretty suspicious for just being agressive against Alvinz. Alvinz FoSed him after his first post.
Conclusion: Not many links. The attacks can be bussing though. Theres however one thing that makes me think that Matt isnt the scumpartner. Skruffs had a suspicious top 3 and he put Matt at the top, followed by Cream and finally Alvinz.

populartajo

Im the lover dying tonight.

Porochaz replaces Evilgorrilaz

Evilgorrilaz was the easy target for Alvinz. All the attacks against him are from the typical scum trying to lynch the most suspicious player.
Conclusion : not scumparnter

Skruffs replaces ashmite84

Scumparnter. I have already said too much about you. Ignoring Alvinz scummyness, jumping against silly details, questions that dont have answers yet. Alvinz NEVER attacked you and your only attack agains thim was a "Im willing to vote him because for thinking that somehw the mafia have a roleblocker" when a player like you would have already destroyed that scumbag.
I sincerely cant believe how blind I was about you. Iamusername was so right about you.

Xtoxm replaces Gaspode

Gaspode attacked Alvinz all D1. And he seemed pretty sincere. However Alvinz almost ignored Gaspode all D1. This can be related to the fact that Gaspode didnt post much or that he was indeed difficult to attack sine almost all players thought he was the most townie of all.
Conclusion : Not possible scumpartner. Small possibility of bussing.

As usual theres the possibility of me being wrong so Skruffs if you want to claim, claim now.

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote Matt

I still think Skruffs is scum but I also think Matt is.

[populartajo]

I think Alabaska can be the SK.

[populartajo]

Id really like to lynch Skruffs. Im still waiting his case for Matt.

[populartajo]

Briefly back on.
As I have said, I have missed both nights, because patrick couldn't change the title in time, didn't prod, etc. I was not near the computer around the time of either lynches and so I didn't get a night choice in. I *would* have targetted MM n1, but it wouldn't have saved him as he was killed twice, and I *would* have targetted the cop last night, even though it would mean preventing him from getting an investigation in, because it would have kept him alive AND would not have prevented him from getting an investigation - the mafia roleblocker already prevented that.


Xtoxm, what do you mean? 2 lovers =/= a power role, if one dies the other dies too.
That leaves a jailkeeper and a cop.

populartajo, if you were to travel a year into the future, and then read your play in this game, you would be embarassed for yourself. You want to lynch me unless I can get a great case on Matt_S, even though I have claimed a power role.

LOL.
You said you suspected Matt. Now explain why. Im not asking a great case just an explanation.

[populartajo]

I still think Skruffs is the lynch of the day. Xtoxm just gained some sxummy points lately. Going to reread this game soon but nothing is going to change my mind about Skruffs. He's the lynch for the day. Im 100% sure he's mafia.
Whats concussed?

[populartajo]

1. You're listening to someone else because they're confirmed, as if a confirmed townie has more insight than yourself.
2. Gaspode used a ton of FOSes rather than votes and seemed noncommittal about everything, which is how I picture a serial killer acting.

And please lynch this guy next.

[populartajo]

Wheres Skruffs?

[populartajo]

I just arrived to the conclusion that Xtoxm, Poro and Cream cant be mafia.
I am the lover.
So we need to pick between Alabaska, Matt and Skruffs.
Actually a JK is a pretty safe claim for scum since we have certainty that there isnt a doctor in this game. And believe it or not, Alabaska is right. When MM claimed doctor Skruffs kept thinking that he was town.

WE NEED TO LYNCH SKRUFFS NOW.

Read this scummy gem, cortesy of my free time.

MM claims doctor. Alvinz believes it and assumes there is a roleblocker. Iamusername votes him and Skruffs jumps softly against him:

Alvinz, do you have any reason to think the mafia have a roleblocker?

MM: You are the "Day 1 Scum lynch", the player that everyone finds easiest to lynch day one because they make no sense. I don't think vote hopping on day one is a scum tell, so I don't agree with the case on you. It has nothing to do with you being scum or town; the players voting you are exhibiting behavior that I think is scummier than yours.

I don't remember any cop claims, when did that happen? Coheed's a cop? Okay.

I'm willing to vote Alvinz just for somehow thinking the mafia would have a roleblocker.

We know he never voted for him and then dissapeared until D2.

....

Matt, what happened with Cream and your theory?

BTW, I think that the scum are Skruffs-Alabaska and Alvinz.
The SK is either Matt or Gaspode.

[populartajo]

I sincerely think that Alvinz, Alabaska and Skruffs are scum.

Skruffs my problem with that post is that if you were indeed the JK, a protective role, you would have known NAR was lying, therefore he would have been scum in your eyes. However, I dont see any of that reasoning in that post. You were still thinking that he could have been town or scum but that there were scummier persons at the moment.

MM: You are the "Day 1 Scum lynch", the player that everyone finds easiest to lynch day one because they make no sense. I don't think vote hopping on day one is a scum tell,

so I don't agree with the case on you

.

It has nothing to do with you being scum or town

;

the players voting you are exhibiting behavior that I think is scummier than yours.

This is only the tip of the iceberg. I sincerely think that of all the connections of the remaining players and Alvinz, yours is extremely scummy. Not voting for him but willing to vote him even though you had jumped against others for less scummy behavior. Its convenient also how you dissapered when all the nurse situation exploded.

................

Alabaska why do you believe Skruffs but at the same time you think hes suspicious for his reaction?

[populartajo]

Matt, just curious, why Poro?
And I forgot Skruff,s why did you say you suspected Matt?

[populartajo]

Unvote Vote: Alabaska

[populartajo]

Unvote

[populartajo]

What just happened here?

[populartajo]

And why are we believing him?

[populartajo]

Why don't you just read what I said??

Theres no way Poro can be scum with Alvinz.

[populartajo]

EG was the easy target for Alvinz D1. All his attacks against him are pretty sincere IMO.

[populartajo]

Alabaska why did you kill MM D1 and why did you pick imausername D2?

[populartajo]

What the hell are you on about?

I just looked through Alvinz posts, he barely talks about EG, only some very light attacking at the start.

I can very easily see Alvinz as scum with EG.

vote Poro

Alvinz: newbie scum.
Possibilities of busing his partner at the beginning of D1 : 1%.

[populartajo]

What the hell are you on about?

I just looked through Alvinz posts, he barely talks about EG, only some very light attacking at the start.

I can very easily see Alvinz as scum with EG.

vote Poro

I had to check back if what you were saying was true but it isnt. EG was STRONGLY attacked by Alvinz. There are like 5-6 posts really hard against him.

[populartajo]

Alabaska why did you kill MM D1 and why did you pick imausername D2?

MM claimed doc and I wanted the Doc out of the way. After submitting my kill I preceded to hit my head against the wall multiple times, b/c mafia would obv go for MM.

iamausername was to frame Skruffs for being the SK. Never really worked as we ran into a scenario where lynching the SK meant a game loss for the town and was out of the picture :/

So yeah basically Poro and Skruffs are mafia.

More votes on Poro please.

Need to reread something before answering. In the meantime, how do you plan to win?

[populartajo]

Wrong, Xtoxm. I know alvinz. I know hes uncapable of doing something like that. I mean, look at this "busing". Do you sincerely think it is?

Evilgorrilaz: The least townly because of his likeness of bandwagons. Dangerous if he successfully starts a bandwagon. Good person to look out for.

Least townly: Evilgorrilaz is the least townly mostly because of his odd behavior, and bandwagons. If he does it again for a bad reason, then I'll consider a vote.

I'm still for Evilgorrilaz as scum right now...

Who we? You have just mistakenly given your role out maybe. For now...

Vote: Evilgorrilaz

What kind of partner goes against your "slips"?

[populartajo]

In conclusion its possible to bus your partner. I mean, its part of mafia. But the way Alvinz suspected Evilgorrilaz ISNT bussing. Its just too much. It sincerely looks to me as newbie scum going againts the easy target. In fact when EG stopped being it, the attacks ceased.

[populartajo]

Xtoxm. Poro isnt mafia. And could the attacks may be weak because alvinz possibly was newbie scum? And the last one sounds more like "damn, I want you dead".
Just saying. I think you can do better.

[populartajo]

No, it doesn't, it really sounds like Alvinz is EG's scumbuddy.

And what do you mean, "I can do better"?

I sincerely expect more reasoning of your part. Try rereading Alvinz posts and you will realize that busing that hard at that stage of the game for no aparent reason is a bad choice for newbie scum.
Now try to read them as EG being non scum and Alvinz being newbie scum. Do you see a case of scum trying to get a mislynch on someone for a crappy reason as "love of bandwagons"?

Matt also came up with Alvinz-Cream theory but again its almost impossible that scumpartners get that attention that early.

And why are you so sure Poro is scum with Alvinz? Why now? Did you reread the game before?

[populartajo]

Sorry guys. I need to go. Listen to the lover. PORO ISNT SCUM. CREAM ISNT SCUM ALSO. If Im wrong Ill eat my hat. Dont do anything stupid until I come back.

[populartajo]

Xtoxm how can you win if you claim SK?
And why are you asking Matt what does he think? Do you suspect him?
Poro's response is indeed a bit sad but theres no way he can be scum. No fucking way. The fact that you and Matt did what you did as newbie scum doesnt change the fact that alvinz was dumb enough to claim nurse. I dont expect from him that level of busing. I expect from him the weak attacks against a nonmafia player like EG, the easy target. I cant be wrong.

[populartajo]

I still think you're scum.

You also have no information. You also can be wrong.
Poro isnt scum. Can be the SK but he isnt scum. His relation with Alvinz is too indicative of allignement.

You havent answered what kind of scumpartner would point out your slips, even the dumbest ones. Its unnecessary attention. Also the attacks although weak seem sincere to me. They were totally looking for his lynch and they fit his dumb and agressive personality. You are just being stubborn.

Xtoxm, can you explain how can the SK win? And who is Poro's partner? Skruffs? Poro-Skruffs is totally discarded in my mind.

[populartajo]

I dont know, in this situation it would be benifical to hear how the SK (if it is Alabaska J as Xtoxm "thinks") could win now cause the way I look at it there is absolutely no way he can win now, providing town/mafia arent retards.

Thats what I was thinking.
Assuming we lynch scum today and scum kill two townies in the night, what happens in a 1 mafia 1 Sk and two townies scenario? Havent we lost already?

[populartajo]

Xtoxm explain clearly
a) who are the scum and why?
b) why cant you be mafia?

[populartajo]

1. Poro and Skruffs.

2. If I was scum with anyone but AJ, i'd have hammered him for the win. Apart from that, day 1 practically confirms i'm not mafia.

You forgot the "why?" part.
And why would you be confirmed for D1 play? Alvinz didnt mention you at all even though Gaspode was crazy against him.

I thought he was about to unvote and vote Poro. Oh well.

Also, Skruffs claim is consistent with my experience with him claiming.

Show us, please.
Also I sincerely think Cream and Poro arent mafia.

[populartajo]

This game.
Rereading and really worried that the players I think are town arent giving a shit about it.

[populartajo]

Damn. The only logical conclusion I can get is that Skruffs is incredibly scummy.
Ok, maybe we need massclaim.

[populartajo]

Xtoxm, Matt, Poro, Cream. In tha order.

[populartajo]

Poro-Skruffs. Interesting.

[populartajo]

EBWOP.
Skruffs, how did you know MM was NAR?

[populartajo]

Xtoxm go.

[populartajo]

Vanillas, do you realize that lying pretty much loses us the game, right? Just saying...

Fuck, this pretty much confirms Skruffs as a power role. And he's the only one I can see as Alvinz partner.

Again I dont think Poro is scum. Im willing to believe Ala is SK. The problem is that the options left are only Skruffs and Poro, since I dont think Cream is scum.

Wait, what about if there are only 2 scum and 1 SK? Is this possible? That would mean tha lovers and cop for town are pretty reasonable. Also Alvinz did slip at some point of the game that he only had a partner.

Thoughts?

[populartajo]

Mmm. This is weird.

[populartajo]

What do you think of Xtoxm pop?

I dont think he's scum. I hate his latest indecision but I have an overall town read from him.
Poro, why did you want to lynch the SK? And why did you think he's scum even though he didnt hammer Ala, yet you believe Ala is the SK?

[populartajo]

Rereading Matt.

[populartajo]

Good post, Cream.

I just had a thought - Perhaps Matt is the best lynch for today? The way I see it, there's still an outside chance of Poro being SK...But with Matt, he's mafia in both scenario's. Perhaps we should lynch him?

Pop, what you think?

Mmm but if Ala is the SK wouldnt he have hammered him?

[populartajo]

There must be something wrong if the only player I think is town at the moment is Cream......
Xtoxm, have you heard of games wuth lovers before? Any idea of the town-scum ratio?

[populartajo]

I think Alvinz did slip that he only had one partner. And with that in mind, I think that bussing in D1 is almost impossible. Thats why Poro and Cream cant be scum.

Matt, in the other hand, knowing that he cant win if Ala is the SK, makes sense now as a extremely possible scumpartner. Ill reread him soon.

And there's Skruffs that if he's indeed the jailkeeper he should roleblock Alabaska and be killed for scum. However if he's scum he wont win this night.

But only and only if we have two mafiates. Should we take the risk and lynch Matt?

[populartajo]

Why are you sorry? Hes definetly an anti town role, which means one less scum no matter who we lynch.

An Xtoxm lynch still seems the way to go to me, it seems like the obvious option. Hes been the scummiest all day and I think it would be a big mistake to lynch anyone else... also a miller is nothing like a lover stop painting it that way. Can anyone else, ie. Cream, Skruffs, Pop, Matt...(NOT Xtoxm) I need to know why a Xtoxm is the wrong way to go because I just dont understand why he is out from all of you.

I think that if you reread what Gaspode had to say about Alvinz D1 you would change your mind. Actually, can you do that and show us why should we vote for Xtoxm?

[populartajo]

Wait, if we're believing that Alvinz has only one partner. Why dont we kill Ala?

[populartajo]

Ive heard that Xtoxm is extremely vocal when he's town. I would consider him protown if he hadnt been that indecesive
So, Im defintely not voting for Xtoxm, Cream, Poro or Ala.
I want to vote for Skruffs but Im believing his claim for now.
Who's left?

Unvote Vote: Matt.

[populartajo]

pop why are you not voting for the two scum

you are horrible at being a confirmed townie

Err, why should I listen the SK that could be scum faking his claim?
I think it would be a good idea to hear Skruffs' case against Matt.

[populartajo]

Please tell me Matt is scum.

[populartajo]

Come on come on come on.
Just in case. Lynch Alabaska tomorrow.

[populartajo]

Well, I think a Poro lynch tomorrow is a better idea, unless someone get's killed at night.

Why? If Matt is scum then its
a)one scum and one SK left.
b)one SK left.
In all scenaries, lynching Ala is the best option since you're preventing a kill tomorrow's night. Right?

[populartajo]

I am quite certain that Poro is an anti-town role, and I fear if it got to a 3-way with me against Poro that I would be lynched, so i'd rather lynch Poro first.

Xtoxm stop thinking just in yourself. If Matt is scum then who do you prefer lynching : the claimed SK or a player that could be town? Have you realized that tomorrow 1 SK=1 mafia?

[populartajo]

....................................