mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Patrick]

Prod: All who have not posted since daybreak .

I only prod people who haven't posted for 72 hours, and that doesn't include nights.

[populartajo]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

You are simply restating what I'm asking you about!

WHY

would he think you are not scum??

What exactly do you want? There are many reasons why he would think I am not scum. The one Im looking for is that he's probable scum, therefore he knows my allingment, although he could be town playing poorly but I doubt it knowing him as scum. My point is why he, assuming he's town, would say this is all orchestrated by tajoscum when my case is extremely decent against him.

My god popular, you are not making any sense. Let me try this one more time. If he is town, why

wouldn't[

he think you're scum? Just because your case is "good" doesn't mean you can't be scum. Can you

please

correctly answer my question.

This pyramid is making no sense.
Look, Alabaska I dont think he's town therefore he knows my allignment.
Yes, he could be town (Ive been wrong many times) but I seriously doubt it. The way Alvinz has behaved D1 when talking about him is too strange and sometimes contradictory. (Check my big post for details) Rereading the game, I thought this was a good case and Im waiting for his response with the pressure he deserves.
My case is good, any people could have done that with D1 information. In fact Im sure many people agree with me here.
Does that agreement make all scum? Does the pointing of this case make me inmediately scum?
Well, Elias seems to think I am. Why dont you ask him what does he think of you?
I dont understand what you want. Seriously.
Do you think Im scum,. Ok, push my case, Ill try to answer everything you want, becuase its OBVIOUS my relationship with Alvinz is not the best of the world, but that DOESNT mean you're inmediately scum, do you get my point?

[Cream147]

If you were town you wouldnt suspect me.

[devil'sadvocate]Why not? You were scummy yesterday and now you are tying him to the godfather.[/devil'sadvocate]

I make a decent case against him (he should have expected it as Im expecting someone to make a case agaisnt me) and he inmediately says that all this is generated by tajoscum. Really? I guess this also means you're also my scumpartner. Yeah, right.

This doesn't answer my question.

Oh yes it does. If he were town he wouldnt have said I am scum.

You are simply restating what I'm asking you about!

WHY

would he think you are not scum??

What exactly do you want? There are many reasons why he would think I am not scum. The one Im looking for is that he's probable scum, therefore he knows my allingment, although he could be town playing poorly but I doubt it knowing him as scum. My point is why he, assuming he's town, would say this is all orchestrated by tajoscum when my case is extremely decent against him.

My god popular, you are not making any sense. Let me try this one more time. If he is town, why

wouldn't[

he think you're scum? Just because your case is "good" doesn't mean you can't be scum. Can you

please

correctly answer my question.

This pyramid is making no sense.
Look, Alabaska I dont think he's town therefore he knows my allignment.
Yes, he could be town (Ive been wrong many times) but I seriously doubt it. The way Alvinz has behaved D1 when talking about him is too strange and sometimes contradictory. (Check my big post for details) Rereading the game, I thought this was a good case and Im waiting for his response with the pressure he deserves.
My case is good, any people could have done that with D1 information. In fact Im sure many people agree with me here.
Does that agreement make all scum? Does the pointing of this case make me inmediately scum?
Well, Elias seems to think I am. Why dont you ask him what does he think of you?
I dont understand what you want. Seriously.
Do you think Im scum,. Ok, push my case, Ill try to answer everything you want, becuase its OBVIOUS my relationship with Alvinz is not the best of the world, but that DOESNT mean you're inmediately scum, do you get my point?

This pyramid stopped making sense a long time ago. It's become a useless argument which ceased to help the town several quotes back. If it's anything popular, I agree with you (agreeing for the win!) that Elias is possible scum. I'm still not sure enough for a vote yet, but the case which you put forward was exactly what I was thinking overnight.

[Elias_the_thief]

Wow, did anyone read what I posted about this case? About how his weird behavior is completely explainable by scum backpedaling from the pressure caused by the original action? Or the part where I talk about how its retarded to push a connection case with no reason to suspect me independantly, as it could very well have been buddying up to a town player? (as far as I'm concerned it was entirely backpedaling).

[Evilgorrilaz]

Sorry been gone the past few days, RL being a pain. Rereading now.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Okay a few things to note: (All of these are assumptions, but they are highly plausible assumptions)
1) There is a rber (Rereading alvinz makes me think he did sorta give it away)
2) There is no real doc (I disagree with albaska because since there was no counterclaim, scum would have no reason to believe in a different doc and would have targeted Mellowed. Now it could be the doctor only gets 1 block in, but if Patrick put the possibility of more than 1 party, I am thinking that maybe there would be an indicator of a doc protection)
3) Town has more power roles (investigative, mason, etc.) (Balance issues)
4) There is an SK (Multiple parites)

I am going out on a limb here, but I think Gaspode might be alvinz's partner. Alvinz starts out positive with him, but then basically ignores him for the rest of the day. Gaspode going after alvinz all day could simply be trying to bus, although that theory falls a bit short since he wants alvinz lynched even though alvinz was under no pressure. Still, I find him to be suitable candidate for a scumbuddy.

[Skruffs]

Can we please just lynch someone, I havent been posting much, I acknowlodge that. But now with MM claiming cop I'm dead tonight, so It doesnt really matter to me what happens.

What did you mean by this?

And why did you investigate a claimed doctor? A claimed doctor is scum-kill bait.. you make your own decisions but if you h ad investigated anyone else you would have had a result on someone that nobody would have information on.

I would think that Patrick would have sent a result to Coheed if coheed had a result. He would not have NOT sent one just because Coheed's target had died.

You say you based your investigation because you didn't think there would be two power roles, BUT...

I'm not lying, my claim is true, thats why I wanted Night and why I was getting so p*ssed off, because now I'm screwed if we don't have doc.

And Just a note, I'll investigate someone tonight, and tell what I find out, but I don't know my sanity, so, my proposition is that a normal townie tell me that they are normal townie, and I will investigate them and see what happens. This is all depending on us having a doc.

lastly: Why did you decide to target MM, someone that you never seemed to be suspicious of, and not Elias, someone that you had your vote, on and off, all of yesterday, as well as today?

Note: I am not insinuating you are not a cop, Coheed, I am merely bringing up some points that strike me about your behaviors that I'd like to see handled today rather than yesterday.

[Skruffs]

I need to look at... well.. pretty much everyone else to figure out the rest of this.

However, this is turning out to be a fun game.

[CoheedCambria09]

@Skruffs- First off "cop" was me not thinking, it should have been "doc". My point was that I beleive the scum would have Roleblocked MM and then killed me. They did the opposite, Roleblocking me and killing him.

My not so good playing as a cop is because I've never been one before. I wanted to know if he really was the doctor, because that would mean I might just live a bit longer. I also didnt really trust his doc claim. I thought it was false and if it turned out to be we would have another scum to lynch.

[Cream147]

I think that coheed is actually cop. I don't think he'd make up having not received the post (though he might have said that he was roleblocked in a different way).

[Matt_S]

I'll believe Coheed's story for now, at least until another night. The no pm thing is just weird though.

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

[Cream147]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

[Matt_S]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

[populartajo]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

I dont know what do you want. Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER? I believed alvinz was town yesterday. Did you read the game I was refering to? Now, of course that Alvinz coming up scum tells us TODAY many things and all his posts should be analysed with extreme attention.
People, look at this way. It was probably alvinz's first time as scum, therefore he made the typical newbie mistakes and its a safe assumption to think that everyone that he suspected really hard (spreading suspicions for posterior lynches) is now confirmed as non his scumpartners, and people who got reads as neutral or prob townies are people that we should look for.
This isnt too hard.

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

[Matt_S]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

Yeah, if you know where to look.

[Patrick]

Votecount

Elias_the_thief (2) -- populartajo, Alabaska J

Not voting: Elias_the_thief, Cream147, CoheedCambria09, Evilgorrilaz, Gaspode, iamausername, Matt_S, Skruffs
10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[populartajo]

Do you want me to still defend him even though his allignment was MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER?

Ignoring that for a moment, you misread alvinz yesterday, yet now you expect to be able to read him like a book. Mafia isn't that simple.

Ok. Give me another plan for today.

Notice how I subtly attacked Cream a few posts ago?

Dont you think we can get info of Alvinz posts?

Yeah, if you know where to look.

I think Elias is a decent start. In fact Im pretty sure he's scum.

[Alabaska J]

popular, is spanish your first language?

[Cream147]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

Agree with you there! I would have happily had alvinz lynched from near the start, until the end. Judging by alvinz' alignment, that makes our interactions very interesting!

[iamausername]

Skruffs is scum. Check this out:

This is interesting to me. I don't know if this is a tell or not, so I will broadcast this out and see what others think. The argument that bad logic just confuses the town - I'm just trying to put my finger on it.

I guess what I got out of this was the idea that, scum know who town are and are trying to get other townies to lynch town. Townies, though, do not know who anyone else is. So in effect, scum have the advantage, especially day one, of knowing which wagons are actually dangerous on scum and which ones are helpful to them. Townies have no way of knowing wether the case they have on someone is good or bad until the person is lynched and their role revealed. So on day one, especially, when one player is criticizing another for not having 'good logic' or a good case, I tend to look at the criticizer - because it means they might have ingame knowledge.

Hmm, yeah, that sounds reasonable. Hey, Skruffs seemed awfully certain that Mellowed Man was town yesterday, didn't he?

---

Let's also take a look at his interactions with alvinz.

Skruffs says in this post that alvinz is in his top 3 scummiest players (in third place, natch), but I don't think I ever saw Skruffs explain what he found scummy about alvinz. In fact, the only thing he's said regarding alvinz's alignment up to this point comes in his very first (real) post in the game:

alvin95 - your post 42 really seems to cover all the bases. You agree that EG is scummy for something, and then defend the reason he had for doing it; it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself and/or explain something to children as you explain why the wagons can be good. Wagoning is effectively a tool of the brutish against the quiet.
-56 - this seems like less of a safety post. My guess is you are town.

Interesting. Skruffs then decides that "either Coheed or popular is the vote for the day", despite neither of these players appearing in that top three just now. Someone calls him out on this, naturally, and he explains:

I was pretty sure that my top three were cream, matt, and alvins, but

alvins is the only one that more than one player is interested in

,a dn the day is going on long enough that players are startign to lose interest. Me sayign tha tPop. or CC had to be lynched today and now was to restart the game, to get rid of applayer that is negatively contributing (IE trying to get the town to carry them) and get hte game on.

So, why was popular/Coheed the vote for the day and not alvinz, again?

I'm willing to vote Alvinz just for somehow thinking the mafia would have a roleblocker.

And yet no vote. That won't fly.

Vote: Skruffs

.

[Skruffs]

Anyway, it's interesting how popular is making scum connections based on someone who he thought was town. You can define interesting however you wish, but I'll define it as questionable.

I don't find it that interesting. I assume you're suggesting that he and alvinz are a scumpair and he's deflecting attention away.

Popular believed alvinz was town yesterday, yet is making cases based on alvinz' actions yesterday. Of course, the fact that you don't find that interesting reminds me of how you interacted with alvinz yesterday. Given alvinz' alignment, that is much more interesting.

Are you suggesting that Popular doesn't have the right to make cases about alvinz' possible partners, now that he knows that alvinz was, in fact, scum? Or are you saying that he was defending alvinz today so the cases he makes are probably flawed or intentionally setup because he's alvinz partner? Or what?

I know you can't possibly be saying that popular thought alvinz was town yesterday so he can't look at alvinz in a new light with new information, so I'll assume it's one of hte other two.

Point: Nobody except scum knew anyone else's alignment except their own yesterday. I think we need to look back and see what happened when Alvinz was under a lot of pressure and how it got transferred to MellowedMan, who was, AS I WAS SAYING all day yesterday, the "Easy Lynch". I say that because I know MM's track record, and I pulled up references and all that crap to explain my point. Players who were ignoring or deflecting attention away from alvinz and onto MM need to be investigated.

Coheed: I more meant "Why were you asking for a vanilla townie to claim to test your sanity", telling the scum who you intend to investigate means nothing, and you should be trying to investigate scum that haven't claimed yet. That's how I play a cop.