mini #585 - A Tempest Has Formed (Over), Thanks Patrick!!

[Patrick]

Votecount

Elias_the_thief (2) -- populartajo, Alabaska J
Skruffs (1) -- iamausername

Not voting: Elias_the_thief, Cream147, CoheedCambria09, Evilgorrilaz, Gaspode, Matt_S, Skruffs
10 alive, 6 to lynch.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Agree with you there! I would have happily had alvinz lynched from near the start, until the end. Judging by alvinz' alignment, that makes our interactions very interesting!

So? Waving around that you were on the lynch of a mafia member doesn't mean too much. Its the same thing as waving around the fact that you weren't on a townie lynch, and therefore must be town. Not to mention you could also be SK.

Coheed: I more meant "Why were you asking for a vanilla townie to claim to test your sanity", telling the scum who you intend to investigate means nothing, and you should be trying to investigate scum that haven't claimed yet. That's how I play a cop.

When was this? I seemed to miss this.

[Matt_S]

Are you suggesting that Popular doesn't have the right to make cases about alvinz' possible partners, now that he knows that alvinz was, in fact, scum? Or are you saying that he was defending alvinz today so the cases he makes are probably flawed or intentionally setup because he's alvinz partner? Or what?

I know you can't possibly be saying that popular thought alvinz was town yesterday so he can't look at alvinz in a new light with new information, so I'll assume it's one of hte other two.

Yeah, I am trying to insinuate that popular was alvinz' partner, and is trying to set up a mislynch. And he says he' "pretty sure" Elias is scum, even though, as Elias said, there's no case on him that doesn't involve alvinz' posts. Scum posts can be pretty ripe with false connections, or attempts to mislynch, yet popular goes with the assumption that it was distancing or something. I don't see how alvinz' attacks on Elias look like anything but trying to get an easy wagon.

[populartajo]

Tell me one thing Matt. Can you have a read of a player that almost didnt play D1?
Ill post what Elias had to say about Alvinz.

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Also, I like Alvinz response.

This was probably a subtle way to support Alvinz and to give the impression that Cream was a possible good lynch.

Alvinz: Says he doesnt mind bandwagoning, next post fos's evil for bandwagoning. Contradict yourself much? Moves on to make some reaching attacks, specifically, about the Tajo-Marmalade connection, and his attacks on me for being a lurking IC. Backs off from initial attacks on me, defends himself *decently*, goes into useless squabble with Cream. I have a neutral to scum read on him.

Why the change of thought, Elias? Why is Alvinz now defenfing himself *decently*?

Alvinz: Who? Basically nothing up until page 16 so hard to read. Then a lot of wierd small posts. I have a neutral to scum read on him still.

Great. Nothing up until page 16 so hard to read.
Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed. I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.
Add this to what Alvinz thougt about him and voila, what do you get?
Elias is a decent case. Period.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Jesus, Matt, I didnt push his lynch because my read all D1 was agressive silly townie. Why would I push his lynch?
Now can you point out those Cream's interactions? Im not seeing them.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Jesus, Matt, I didnt push his lynch because my read all D1 was agressive silly townie. Why would I push his lynch?
Now can you point out those Cream's interactions? Im not seeing them.

And Elias obviously thought alvinz was more town than Mellowed, so why push the alvinz lynch before Mellowed?
And really? You can't see the huge argument over petty things?

[Cream147]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

[Skruffs]

Oooh. Evilgorillaz, think you goofed there and just cleared someone of being on the mafia team.

[Matt_S]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

Not everyone pushed as hard as you did that early on. It reminds me a lot of my first game as scum.

[Elias_the_thief]

Tell me one thing Matt. Can you have a read of a player that almost didnt play D1?
Ill post what Elias had to say about Alvinz.

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Also, I like Alvinz response.

This was probably a subtle way to support Alvinz and to give the impression that Cream was a possible good lynch.

Or, it was a genuine praise of a decent response. Are you telling me that you didnt think that was a good response? If I recall, there was at least one other person who said the same thing, possibly two. This is completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Says he doesnt mind bandwagoning, next post fos's evil for bandwagoning. Contradict yourself much? Moves on to make some reaching attacks, specifically, about the Tajo-Marmalade connection, and his attacks on me for being a lurking IC. Backs off from initial attacks on me, defends himself *decently*, goes into useless squabble with Cream. I have a neutral to scum read on him.

Why the change of thought, Elias? Why is Alvinz now defenfing himself *decently*?

Because he made additional posts after the original response that were not as good? Again, completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Who? Basically nothing up until page 16 so hard to read. Then a lot of wierd small posts. I have a neutral to scum read on him still.

Great. Nothing up until page 16 so hard to read.
Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed. I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.
Add this to what Alvinz thougt about him and voila, what do you get?
Elias is a decent case. Period.

Um...I didn't push him because there were several players that I thought were scummier. This is your most retarded point yet.
"ZOMG WHY DIDNT YOU PUSH YOUR LIKE 4TH SUBJECT IS YOU SCUMBUDDIES?!"

Summary: genuine praise of a good response, followed by a genuine change of opinion after subsequent posts, followed by a failure to attack a suspect low on my list while attacking higher suspects. Is this honestly the best you can do? And listen: YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE, UNLESS YOURE A RETARDED TOWN OR SCUM. FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY ABOUT ME INDEPENDANT OF CONNECTION AND THEN I MIGHT SAY YOU HAVE A CASE.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Oooh. Evilgorillaz, think you goofed there and just cleared someone of being on the mafia team.

Oh?

[iamausername]

YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE

I pretty much disagree with this entirely. However, I don't think the alvinz/Elias connection is nearly as strong as the alvinz/Skruffs connection, and I think Skruffs also looks scummier independently.

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

[Matt_S]

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

I feel better with Cream's connections. My lack of comments about your post was tacit opposition. It's not necessarily a bad case, but Cream going Rambo on alvinz seems so much better to me.

[populartajo]

Tell me one thing Matt. Can you have a read of a player that almost didnt play D1?
Ill post what Elias had to say about Alvinz.

Dont try to tell me anger is a scumtell. I'll hunt you down and kill you.

Also, I like Alvinz response.

This was probably a subtle way to support Alvinz and to give the impression that Cream was a possible good lynch.

Or, it was a genuine praise of a decent response. Are you telling me that you didnt think that was a good response? If I recall, there was at least one other person who said the same thing, possibly two. This is completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Says he doesnt mind bandwagoning, next post fos's evil for bandwagoning. Contradict yourself much? Moves on to make some reaching attacks, specifically, about the Tajo-Marmalade connection, and his attacks on me for being a lurking IC. Backs off from initial attacks on me, defends himself *decently*, goes into useless squabble with Cream. I have a neutral to scum read on him.

Why the change of thought, Elias? Why is Alvinz now defenfing himself *decently*?

Because he made additional posts after the original response that were not as good? Again, completely inconsequential.

Alvinz: Who? Basically nothing up until page 16 so hard to read. Then a lot of wierd small posts. I have a neutral to scum read on him still.

Great. Nothing up until page 16 so hard to read.
Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed. I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.
Add this to what Alvinz thougt about him and voila, what do you get?
Elias is a decent case. Period.

Um...I didn't push him because there were several players that I thought were scummier. This is your most retarded point yet.
"ZOMG WHY DIDNT YOU PUSH YOUR LIKE 4TH SUBJECT IS YOU SCUMBUDDIES?!"

Summary: genuine praise of a good response, followed by a genuine change of opinion after subsequent posts, followed by a failure to attack a suspect low on my list while attacking higher suspects. Is this honestly the best you can do? And listen: YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE, UNLESS YOURE A RETARDED TOWN OR SCUM. FIND SOMETHING SCUMMY ABOUT ME INDEPENDANT OF CONNECTION AND THEN I MIGHT SAY YOU HAVE A CASE.

Elias you know this isnt going to work twice.
1. Do you sincerely think that even if Alvinz had said "Elias is my 90% possible scumpartner" we should ignore him? Come on, read his posts and how they involve you. Its a DECENT connection.
2. Its hard to make a case against you when all D1 you have a)lurked to boredom b)write general comments about everyone and c)only push one case, conveniently.
My point is that Alvinz was a heavy suspected player. WHy not going after him if you thought he was a decent lynch? In fact, why not commenting anything about him in the last stage of the game? How convenient, lurking again.
3. Why so overdefensive, huh? Disliking my logic much?
4. What do you think of Skruffs?

[populartajo]

YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE

I pretty much disagree with this entirely. However, I don't think the alvinz/Elias connection is nearly as strong as the alvinz/Skruffs connection, and I think Skruffs also looks scummier independently.

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

I cant believe I missed that post. Im rereading and post my comments about it later. The fact that Skruffs has missed it makes me wonder.

[populartajo]

He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

Maybe because he had a scum read on Mellowed? I don't see how that says anything about his alignment on day 2.

What I said

Additonal fact. He never pushed Alvinz lynch although he was neutral.scum to him, instead he almost went full against Mellowed.

I dont blame him for that but I feel he could have pushed Alvinz case better.

Matt do you think Im scum with Alvinz?

You know, you could have also pushed an alvinz case yet didn't. You're actually my number 2 pick for alvinz' buddy, because Cream's interactions yesterday seem like blatant distancing.

Distancing huh? I had my vote on him for most of the day. I endorsed his lynch happily throughout the day. I took my vote off him when coheed looked a better candidate, and then moved to Mellowed before going right back to alvinz. Surely there's a line to draw between distancing and genuine suspicion. Or should suspicion of someone be avoided where possible because it may look too much like distancing.

Not everyone pushed as hard as you did that early on. It reminds me a lot of my first game as scum.

I dont think Cream and Alvinz (assuming it was their first time as scum) would have done that. Its too much fire attraction and an unnecessary one at that stage of the game.
Also could you link me to that first game?

[Matt_S]

Also could you link me to that first game?

There you go.

[Skruffs]

YOU CANT MAKE A LYNCH OFF OF A CONNECTION CASE ALONE

I pretty much disagree with this entirely. However, I don't think the alvinz/Elias connection is nearly as strong as the alvinz/Skruffs connection, and I think Skruffs also looks scummier independently.

I'm slightly confused by the fact that my last post appears to have been ignored entirely by everyone.

I cant believe I missed that post. Im rereading and post my comments about it later. The fact that Skruffs has missed it makes me wonder.

I just want to point out that you are suggesting or insinuating that if two people do the same thing, and one of them is you, the other person is suspicious.

I completely missed Iamausername's attack against me because it was on a previous page; thank you for bringing it to my attention though, I will read and respond to it.

[Alabaska J]

I am okay with a Skruffs lynch. iamausername may be on to something here.


Also, pop, you reasoning is hella wack sometimes. :/ I'm going to do a reread of tajo day one to see what to make of his play. I agree that Elias is probably alvinz's buddy, but some of tajo's posts seem off to me, and just because he agrees with me doesn't exempt him from being scum.

In summary,

FoS: Skruffs and populartajo

.

[Matt_S]

Skruffs has seemed odd most of the game, but Skruffs defending Mellowed-town oddly doesn't seem as odd as Cream attacking alvinz-scum oddly. I really don't feel that Skruffs is the play for today.

[CoheedCambria09]

Sorry for not posting in a while, I was away all weekend, will reread and post soon.

[Elias_the_thief]

Elias you know this isnt going to work twice.

Just noting how retarded you'll look if I'm lynched.

1. Do you sincerely think that even if Alvinz had said "Elias is my 90% possible scumpartner" we should ignore him? Come on, read his posts and how they involve you. Its a DECENT connection.

Try to pay attention. I never said anything about ignoring the connection you are attempting to construct. His posts are almost indisputably the result of backpedaling independant of me. Even if they werent, you havent shown any strong argument as to how I connected myself to him. As I said before, lynching on connection cases alone is retarded. Its called buddying up, and retarded townies such as yourself are why it works.

2. Its hard to make a case against you when all D1 you have a)lurked to boredom b)write general comments about everyone and c)only push one case, conveniently.

You admit its hard to make a case against me. If this doesnt seal how contrived this attack is I dont know what will. My "general comments" were in depth analysis of every player in the game. If you can't make a case from that, maybe it shoult tell you I'm town. As for my lurking, I'd like to point out that I was doing so as a result of a combo of finals and RL issues, and while I'm not going into details, I'd like to point out that youre a complete douchebag for suggesting otherwise.

My point is that Alvinz was a heavy suspected player. WHy not going after him if you thought he was a decent lynch? In fact, why not commenting anything about him in the last stage of the game? How convenient, lurking again.

I dont recall calling him a decent lynch, firstly. Secondly, I HAD HIGHER SUSPECTS. Youre basically suspecting me for NOT following the crowd? You are a complete idiot. Again. RL issues, you asshole.

3. Why so overdefensive, huh? Disliking my logic much?

Yeah, go suck a dick. My defense has been perfectly in proportion to your attack, this is my standard playstyle, and overdefensiveness isnt a scumtell. Your logic is terrible though. You're basically suggesting the same points over and over again and hoping that no one notices thats I've defeated them.

4. What do you think of Skruffs?

I think I need to reread.