NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER
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Scripten Mafia Scum
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In post 36, Thor665 wrote:I now support Csaro's lynch also.
Scripten's drunk post is also a policy lynch.
People should vote one or the other, my RVS stage is over.
Policy lynchers should be policy lynched.
Thor vote is serious.-
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In post 368, Izariael wrote:
Top scumread would be Scripten. I'm irked by everything in his ISO. Non-committal, flimsy reads and a lackadaisical vote on top wagon are raising my hackles.
VOTE: Scripten
This looks like a vote for town cred rather than a vote based on actual scumhunting.
It's fairly early into D1, and you want solid reads on people? In a large?
Also, Cho was tied with TSO atthreevotes. I think I can deal with the guilt of putting someone at L-8 or so.-
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In post 427, Muffin wrote:The pigeon thing is getting really old, really fast.
I dunno, it makes me chuckle a little.
Also, PeregrineV is mighty scummy, but he feels like almost too easy a lynch. Does the normal setup allow for vengeful scum?-
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In post 474, Izariael wrote:
Since about the time when "scum" and "active lurking" became buzzwords.
Everything is buzzword!
Best buzzword? Chainsaw.-
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In post 484, Aeronaut wrote:
Why do you support Csareo's lynch? It's not a policy lynch, because you just said you are against that. What makes him scummy?
What? I never said I did?
I think you might need to reread that exchange.
Egg:What do you like about Izar's vote on me? Just curious.-
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In post 559, Thor665 wrote:@Everyone - Pere claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now.
Heh. I like this. Not yet ready to sheep Thor, but this is a good post.
In post 562, Boonskiies wrote:Don't push me to claim, please.
What is this in reference to? I've got to admit that this game moves way too fast for random statements with no direct context to stick in my mind.-
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In post 568, AxleGreaser wrote:
In post 392, Scripten wrote:In post 368, Izariael wrote:
Top scumread would be Scripten. I'm irked by everything in his ISO. Non-committal, flimsy reads and a lackadaisical vote on top wagon are raising my hackles.
VOTE: Scripten
This looks like a vote for town cred rather than a vote based on actual scumhunting.
It's fairly early into D1, and you want solid reads on people? In a large?
Also, Cho was tied with TSO atthreevotes. I think I can deal with the guilt of putting someone at L-8 or so.
@Scripten
Please explain how you think that would get "town cred" and is not actual scum hunting.
(I fail to see your point of view) (I fail to see how you can hold your point of view.) (It feels made up.) Show me your perspective.
My explanation is literally right there in the quote. Everything about Izar's vote was based on pedantic "You use words that I'm going to construe as scummy because I said they are" logic and hyperbole. The top two wagons were on my top scumread and a town read. I don't (didn't) have a strong enough read on any other player to warrant starting another wagon.
In post 501, PeregrineV wrote:17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town.
Uh huh... Because nobody makes votes just to gain good favor with the rest of the town, right? Izar hadn't finished reading the thread, and when you sheeped them, they even seemed surprised/possibly nervous. That said, you are looking WAY scummier than they are right now.
So ready to vote PereV. (Btw uhm... muffin, your nickname for him MIGHT not be apropro. ) His (intentional(?)) misinterpretations and the fact that he's ready to vote Thor for discussing multiball are huge red flags. Does nobody else follow why the latter is so scummy?-
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In post 595, Izariael wrote:
1)My vote wasn't based at all on your WORDING of your reads.Both you and Thor seem to think that I gave a shit about how you worded it. I didn't. What irked me about your reads is that they were the most bare bones reads ever. There was NOTHING of interest there that offered a glimpse of what is making your gears turn. Anyone can say "oh, they feel like scum. I think they're town. They seem town." I don't care about that. I want to know WHY you think that. What about their behavior has driven you to those conclusions? I've already clarified this and offered you an opportunity to explain your reads, and you still haven't done so, which I continue to find scummy. 445, 458
Would you care to elaborate now? Your answers won't be alignment-indicative, but they will at least establish a ground zero for your reads. Then I can catch you lying later like the scum you are. Thanks.
My vote on Cho was due to the fact that she had very little actual content and she looked the scummiest of all the players I'd seen up until that point. Her 320 should have been more than enough for an early vote. That said, (592) has me doubting if I should keep my vote there. I don't wholly agree with it, but it felt slightly townish. In fact, I have a much better vote to hop onto. I bet you'll confbias the hell out of that one, too.
In post 595, Izariael wrote:
PeregrineV's sheep on my vote was unexpected and unusual, but it's kind of the only red flag I've seen from him. PeregrineV's play here seems consistent with what I've seen from Town!Peregrine, so I don't really have a scum read on his slot at this time. I think Peregrine has a tendency to appear pretty scummy as town, so my past experience with him has me trying to look past my initial misgivings of his play and look for alternative motivations that could come from town. I'm still undecided on how I feel about him, but it's definitely not a "he must be scum" feeling.
"He always looks scummy to me, so I'm forgiving scummy behavior." Is this not what you are saying here?
In post 595, Izariael wrote:
And this is a terrible post. If I say "@Everyone - Scripten claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now." will you think this is a good post too?
If you actually had anything and I didn't have a sexy green role PM, maybe.
It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.
In post 601, PeregrineV wrote:In post 590, Thor665 wrote:In post 126, Goofyd00d wrote:Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.
Here's another mention of multiball that didn't bother Pere.
Could be Goofy is scum.
Scumreads for everyone!
In post 603, PeregrineV wrote:
Yeah, you started with 397 and have been digging your hole deeper ever since. :shrug:
Spoiler: Heh
UNVOTE: Cho
VOTE: PeregrineV-
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In post 608, AxleGreaser wrote:
Well you may think its right there in the quote, but it still does not parse to me.
I accept that, "The top two wagons were on my top scumread and a town read. I don't (didn't) have a strong enough read on any other player to warrant starting another wagon.", is a reasonable position to have held.
Then read my (606). You could also have tried looking at Cho's play up to that point.
In post 608, AxleGreaser wrote:
You still have not explained how you see someone who you claim did this
Scripten said: "Everything about Izar's vote was based on pedantic "You use words that I'm going to construe as scummy because I said they are" logic and hyperbole."
is going to them trying to do
"Uh huh... Because nobody makes votes just to gain good favor with the rest of the town, right?"
(439). Overemphasis on my word choice (pedantry), the laughable position of a "solid null read" as contrast to my vote, (fishing for favor) and mentioning how my vote was on "the top wagon" (hyperbole) just to make sure their case looks stronger. Need I say more?
Just because a case is wordy doesn't mean it is right.-
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In post 612, PeregrineV wrote:In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.
What has Thor been saying? In your own words.
Nah. I think you can figure it out. Actually, on that note, what part of finding it likely that this game is multiball is alignment-indicative? Do you think that scum have a better idea about the setup than town do?
P-Edit: Gorramit. Ninja'd by Thor.-
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In post 658, Izariael wrote:In post 612, PeregrineV wrote:In post 606, Scripten wrote:It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.
What has Thor been saying? In your own words.
I'd also like this clarified, since it seemed directed at me but I don't actually understand what Thor comment it's referring to. Thor's address of Peregrine and I are two separate topics, so clumping them in together to say "[we're both] missing what Thor has been saying" seems like an attempt to buddy up with Thor.
Ah right. I'd forgotten about that.
My point was that the discussion was centering on an argument over whether or not this game was multiball on one side, while the other side was examining the motivations behind the discussion. PeregrineV was accusing Thor of being scum for bringing up multiball, but Thor was not claiming that PeregrineV was scummy because he disagreed. There was this cognitive dissonance between what Thor was saying and what everyone else involved seemed to be hearing. He's since explained this better than I can. (After all, I'm not in his head.)
Aneninen:I did understand. My vote is on PeregrineV right now, if you have not noticed. What was weak about my explanation?-
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In post 710, Izariael wrote:
I'm still not quite sure why your statement in 606 was directed at me then... I don't recall being involved in their multiball discussion, but have been observing that discussion from the sidelines. How did I fit in with all of this?
Misunderstanding why I liked that post of Thor's is directly related to misunderstanding the nature of that post. That is, you looked at it only in the most superficial fashion. He was (as I interpreted it) indicating that PeregrineV's motivations were in question more than his stance on whether or not the game is multiball.
In post 710, Izariael wrote:
Given that this is completely non-confirmable outside of your dying role-flip, how do you expect anyone[else]to hold this as a townread for you?
I don't. You specifically asked me a question and I replied from my specific PoV. Do you see where the context of Thor's case on PeregrineV differs from yours?
My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.-
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In post 717, Izariael wrote:In post 714, Scripten wrote:My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.
Given that it is no longer alignment-indicative to be revealing ho is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?
Because an easily-compiled list of neighborhood composition is pro-town.-
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In post 723, Izariael wrote:
But the time for being up-front and pro-active about neighborhood composition is long past. Throwing it out there now is a formality more than anything, since everyone is aware that multiple neighborhoods are in play. It might be pro-town, but I would expect scum to follow suit as well because it would be blatantly scummy not to.
Yeah. It's a null tell that is, IMO, pro-town. Knowing who can talk to one another overnight is useful information. I'm not actually sure what part of this you are questioning?
In post 730, T S O wrote:
Meh.
I just got the feeling he expected people to praise the revealing of it or something.
Nope. Honestly, I don't really know very well how neighborhoods will factor into the game, but it seems pretty likely that having information about the neighborhoods will help nail scum.-
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In post 751, Nero Cain wrote:Scripten, what do you think of me thinking you are the scum from my hood?
Kinda hard to form any real opinion on it. I don't know where your reads are, am either null- or town-reading other players in the hood, and I am speaking from a different PoV than you are. (You already know your own role. I already know mine.) There's too many variables for me to make a judgement call on that statement other than saying it's wrong.-
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In post 801, Nero Cain wrote:
Eh, the whole reason I think scum are going to be in the hoods is 'cause mods putting a scum spy in the hoods is p common these days. Nothing Dave has said seems all that scummy too me (but that could be that I haven't read everything yet) and the only really niggle that I get from TSO is like, he'll lash out at anything he thinks is criticism so him being "oh yeah I'm grumpy" and just kinda laughing it off seemed a bit uncharacteristic? Do yo have a read on TSO and Dave?
I hadn't really thought much of the hoods, to be honest. I still don't know exactly what to think, though I feel like knowing who is in what neighborhood will be useful later on.
Right now I've got a slight townread on TSO, a null read on Davesaz, and a null read on you. If I had to choose scum out of those three, I'd probably vote you. (My read hasn't changed markedly from my (362), at least among my hood.)-
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Mostly gut, based on your interactions with Toby and Csareo initially. I disagree with your (243) and (245), but they moved you out of an early scum read. (The alt-hater thing is not really alignment indicative, but I do have a thing against policy lynches.)
Since my initial read on you, you've slightly moved from minor scum to null-leaning-scum for a few things to do with TSO.-
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Not the jokes you made, obviously, but the sentiment could easily have been genuine. I've seen much less pushed much harder.-
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In post 818, Izariael wrote:In post 714, Scripten wrote:My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out,but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.
I fail to understand why you chose to include the bolded statement. It sounds like you want to intentionally include something that *could* be seen as pro-town just for the sake of appearances. I don't see why a town player would be so concerned about making surethis detailis on their ISO. As long as they can confirm that no information about the hood is being lied about, then what is it to a town player whether they or another player opened up about it?
Confirmation bias much? I said right in that post that I thought that the information was already out there. I wanted it in my iso so that when another player looks at my iso, the information is right there within my posts. You're tunneling into a molehill and making it out to be a mountain.
In post 818, Izariael wrote:
In post 805, Scripten wrote:(The alt-hater thing is not really alignment indicative, but I do have a thing against policy lynches.)
Seems somewhat contradictory to what you said here
In which you are saying you would policy lynch someone on the basis that they support policy lynches. This is like pushing for capital punishment on people who support capital punishment. Does someone else come along and policy lynch you for policy lynching someone who supports policy lynches? Where does this chain end? You're perpetuating the very thing you're trying to stop... and then now say you're against it?
You do realize that my 39 was contradictory within its own context, right?
Because it's a joke. If you read the next two posts after that, you might understand it a little better.
In post 819, Izariael wrote:
I don't actually see why a town player would specifically go out of their way to tailor their ISO to be "townier" in appearance, regardless of the details in question. It just seems like a counter-productive thing to be doing when you could be instead spending time actually, you know... looking for scum. It's like trying to coif your hair in the middle of a house fire. Like... get your priorities straight here. Survival > Appearances.
Because two sentences outweighs the rest of my posting? Okay.-
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In post 830, Izariael wrote:
Did you wind up reading 822 before posting this? I think if you had waited another few sentences to comment you would see that I've changed my mind on this.
Oh, I realize now that I'd misread your 822. My apologies.
In post 830, Izariael wrote:
And your post 39 said "Thor vote is serious" so I didn't really read it as a joke. I was aware that it was contradictory in and of itself, but I had taken it as a serious stance. If it was intended as a joke, then great. Haha.
I have a dry sense of humor that doesn't really translate well into text. I should probably stop trying to make jokes.
That said, I do have a personal distaste for policy lynches. Just that post conveying it was supposed to be funnier than I suppose people are taking it.-
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In post 948, Aneninen wrote:That"I think I can deal with the guilt of putting someone at L-8 or so."is indeed a bit WTF. (I mean, it makes no sense.)
I said that in response to Izar's point that me voting for top wagon was somehow scummy. (Did you notice that, with extra votes on her, Cho wrote a post that was town-feeling enough for me to feel comfortable unvoting her?)
More to come regarding current events when I have time.-
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In post 964, Aneninen wrote:
Which one of Cho's posts gave you town vibes?
I'm waiting for that "more to come".
(591)
While she is not a town read of mine, that post made her less scummy than other players. So I moved my vote.
I apologize, but just keeping up with this thread is difficult. My workload will be lifted come this thursday. (Got an exam tomorrow, a newspaper to write, and an essay due the day after.) I'm not exactly on V/LA, but my content is, as you have noted, lower than I'd like it to be. Larges are tough to be active in.-
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In post 1093, Egg wrote:Scripten, why do you think knowing neighborhoods will be more useful later than now?
I can't give you any real specifics. I've never played with neighborhoods before. However, more information for town is usually a good thing. I also can't see the reveal being particularly anti-town, either. Unless scum get their own neighborhood (which seems like it'd be a little game breaking), they'll probably tell their team all about the composition of their individual hoods, anyway. While this may not cover every hood in the game, it would still be more information than town will have.
Current Events
Thor v. Nero Cain looks weird. I'm not sure I'm following what Thor was doing where he told Nero that he was buddying him, and I'm not sure why Nero took what Thor said as reason to vote him. (Yes, I realize that buddying is a scum tactic. I don't think it follows that claiming to be buddying someone is also a scum tactic.)
Axle's posts are really hard to read. Like.... super hard to understand. I don't think this is a scumtell, but it's definitely an annoying trait for any alignment. TSO doesn't read as scum to me, though I don't think his push on Aneninen is strong enough to justify a counter-wagon.-
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In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote:
Well, I don't really see a reason that Thor would not elaborate on why I'm townish. Explain the town motivation there?
I think he was going for a reaction test. Like I said, I'm not wholly following what Thor has been doing.
In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote:
dislike gamr for similar reason. His "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly.Scum already know if its mb or not.
How do you know this? (Bolded)
In post 1178, TierShift wrote:
Another empty post by scripten. This happens too often. I've played with town-him before, in which he very clearly stated opinions, took sides and was very proactive.
I can't really deny that I haven't been as proactive as I usually am. The large game isn't giving me the same level of reads that I can normally get, and engaging every single player is a lot more difficult. I do plan on talking directly to more players now that I have more time.
In post 1178, TierShift wrote:
In post 1119, The Fonz wrote:At p20. Two things.
Csareo wasscumhuntingderpily. One of those last two words is alignment relevant.
please enlighten me.
Bolded. Not necessarily in agreement, though.-
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In post 1244, Garmr wrote:In post 1179, Nero Cain wrote: "If it is multiball all you had to do was wait one day and you could of keeped it hidden from scum." is p silly. Scum already know if its mb or not.
Potential scumslip
I think nero just slipped he confirmed that scum know it's multiball
Ehhh... I called it out, but I'm not scumreading him too hard for it. Jumping on tiny things like that pushes mislynches. I disagree that it's worth calling it a scumslip.
P-Edit - TBH, even if it didn't have the "or not."-
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Nero Cain wrote:Whats weird about it? Seems like it would be basic logic.
I guess I just don't see the link between the size of the scumteam and whether or not the game has multiple scumteams. (Or are we including SKs in that definition?) Or are there other aspects I'm missing?
Also, time to engage some new peeps.
Aeronaut:You said you'd be back from VL/A yesterday. Any news on that front? I would like to see your thoughts on the various back-and-forths that have been coming around.
AxelGreaser:Do you find TSO backing off on his wagon to be alignment-indicative. If so, which way do you see it moving? Also, hypothetical question. Let's say you had to start a wagon on a player who's not got any votes on them currently. Who would you choose and why?
Boonskiies:You still feeling that Cho vote? I'd like to see you put your vote to use or at least push the person you're voting for. Frankly, I'd like to see Cho actually play the game, fwiw.-
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In post 1252, Nero Cain wrote:In post 1250, Scripten wrote:I guess I just don't see the link between the size of the scumteam and whether or not the game has multiple scumteams. (Or are we including SKs in that definition?) Or are there other aspects I'm missing?
multiball is traditionally 2 mafia teams and that's the context that I've been using it in. Its a 21 player game and there's only going to be like 5 or 6 scum max. If its a 4 or 5 player team then you know there's not going to be another. If its 2 then you know there's going to be another. 3, maybe.
This is very basic game logic and I'm not sure this is a scum whine or a new player just being new and not understanding.
I've played in games that were larger and had a small scumteam with an SK or two to balance things out on other sites. I'm not wholly aware of normal setups here.-
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Literally nobody replied to any of the questions I posed earlier. Aeronaut is the only one who hasn't posted since. Reposting them.
Aeronaut: You said you'd be back from VL/A yesterday. Any news on that front? I would like to see your thoughts on the various back-and-forths that have been coming around.
AxelGreaser: Do you find TSO backing off on his wagon to be alignment-indicative. If so, which way do you see it moving? Also, hypothetical question. Let's say you had to start a wagon on a player who's not got any votes on them currently. Who would you choose and why?
Boonskiies: You still feeling that Cho vote? I'd like to see you put your vote to use or at least push the person you're voting for. Frankly, I'd like to see Cho actually play the game, fwiw.
Boonskiies:You moved your vote to sheep Thor pretty quickly after I asked you about your Cho vote. Did my question drive you to examine your vote?
I mentioned it. I said that it was a bunch of tunneling that didn't give me any sort of alignment-indicative reads, save for the very end when TSO finally backed off on his case on you. I tried to ask AxleGreaser about it since he was also slightly involved in the interaction, but he just dodged the question.
In post 1373, TierShift wrote:
Okay, scripten's ISO is weak as fuck. There's a distinct lack of opinions other than 'Pere is sooo scummy' for reasons unexplained. So scripten, I want those reasons now.
I've played with townscripten; he clearly explained his reads and had an opinion on everything. Not seeing that here.
Except that game was significantly different in context. It was, for one thing, a micro and not a large. Far fewer people to actually engage with. We alsolostthat game, and most likely in no small part due to my play. While meta isn't wholly useless, I don't think a 1-to-1 comparison is going to help much in this game, since I'm still relatively new and I'm constantly reassessing my playstyle.
Also, PereV felt obviously scummy to me. His naked vote and obvious sheeping of Izar (Who's been a fairly minor part of the game since.) were something, but it was really his reaction to Thor's push on him that made me vote him. The multiball discussion, at least from Thor's side, was not actually about multiball. It was calling out PereV on -really- scummy play. The more Thor pushed, the more PereV tried to keep the discussion on MB and setup speculation, just to push his idea that Thor should be auto-lynched if the game turned out to be multiball. I'm just amazed that so few people really caught on to it.
And yes, I realize that I'm mostly sheeping Thor's case. However, with there being so many people in this game, it's a lot tougher to push individual cases. I'm attempting to circumvent that by engaging players who have not really been pushed very much so far. I have a hunch that smarter scum will be lurking pretty hard this early on.
In post 1376, AxleGreaser wrote:In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you find TSO backing off on his wagon to be alignment-indicative. If so, which way do you see it moving?
That is the weirdest shit I have ever seen in a Mafia game. It feels wrong.
(I am probably not going to be able to say why or what.)
I have read it several times since I got back. That is not helping.
I see it moving towards sleep, I need some of that.
@Anyone who happens to know (save me finding it)
What neighbourhood is TSO in?
...Are you serious? I'm asking you to tell me if you found anything alignment-indicative in a current event. That is not a weird question and there is absolutely no excuse not to answer it.
Also, answer the other part of my post. I'm NOT liking your play so far.-
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In post 1395, TierShift wrote:In post 1393, Scripten wrote:but it was really his reaction to Thor's push on him that made me vote him. The multiball discussion, at least from Thor's side, was not actually about multiball. It was calling out PereV on -really- scummy play. The more Thor pushed, the more PereV tried to keep the discussion on MB and setup speculation, just to push his idea that Thor should be auto-lynched if the game turned out to be multiball. I'm just amazed that so few people really caught on to it.
Okay, so you really voted pere for his reaction to thor's push. What exactly was scummy in his response other than 'lynch thor if MB'?
"Lynch Thor if MB" wasn't really the response. That was just what prompted it.
It was the way in which he responded in general. Notice how Thor and others (including myself) are saying that it doesn't matter if the setup is MB or, his push was wrong due to being based on non-alignment-related opinion. Eventually the conversation drifted into PereV's push and the way he would segue into talking setup whenever the topic drifted from it. Thor's (1364) summarizes the deflective way PereV switched things around.
Hell, even when he made out like he was going to change the subject (627), he just goes right back into speculation. We've got almost 60 pages of empty posts, potential scum that are hiding behind 1v1 arguments/tunneling (Scum love those!) and evasive/dodgy persons. PereV, (not just) in my opinion, has been fostering this atmosphere and reeks of scumminess for it.-
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In post 1403, AxleGreaser wrote:
Also now that i am more awake.
No I do not provide neatly packaged simplistic statements about the people I am trying determine the alignment of. (At the moment that is TSO)
and the answer said exactly what was happening. I was tired. I did read it several times.
I did find something quite weird was going on, it was probably weird in the sense of fferlyt trajectory
in that I wonder about changes in direction of events that seemed to have no cause, hence my question about neighbourhoods.
Oh, holy crap, I misread your post really badly. Apologies, I thought you were directly referring to my question when you said "it" was weird and wrong, rather than TSO's post. That was totally my bad there, and I take back what I said about your play. (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)
Also, to answer your question, TSO is in a neighborhood with myself, Davesaz, and Nero Cain-
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In post 1404, AxleGreaser wrote:In post 1393, Scripten wrote:
Also, answer the other part of my post. I'm NOT liking your play so far.
Given that I only just stopped voting you the feeling would be mutual.
Scripten: "Also, hypothetical question. Let's say you had to start a wagon on a player who's not got any votes on them currently. Who would you choose and why?"
Well I did just start voting someone, who had no votes it was TSO. So if you are looking for me to provide original certifiably obviously non sheep input into the game that is it.
You could always read the thread carefully and see if I was me tooing in the other discussions or adding original input.
Whats the problem is TSO your buddy?
I have a townread on him, if that counts. I don't agree entirely on all of his wagons, but I think he'd be a mislynch. That's why I asked you to pick out someone scummy from the players who haven't got wagons yet. I wanted to pick your brain on the players that might be skating by.-
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In post 1407, AxleGreaser wrote:Scripten: (I don't respond well when I think my questions are being blown off.)
Really, how unusual of you.Spoiler: spoiler
Ta. for the neighbourhood thing, I had at some point searched and found that, and that does not seem like the kind of neighbourhood that could explain what seems to be a change in direction of TSO.
Time will tell.
The problem I'm finding with evasiveness is that how often scum can successfully hide in it, since it's so common for townies to play that way. It -should- be- a scumtell, to the extent that scum shouldn't be able to do it and get away with it, but it's not and that makes me frustrated. When I read your post for the first time, it seemed like you were calling my question "weird" and thus refusing to answer, so I responded aggressively to attempt to get a real answer out of you. Of course, since my reading comprehension failed so hard, I've got egg on my face right now.
That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?-
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In post 1411, AxleGreaser wrote:In post 1409, Scripten wrote:
That said, why would you expect a hood to change a player's direction, as you say?
discussing things in hood could from my external view, generate jumps and gaps in the flow/trajectory of a player.
any information exchange channel that i am unaware of might do that.
So might sitting down and thinking, whoops why did I xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <<< bunch of graphic imagery elided as pointless and tasteless.
So if TSO is the kind of player that can sit down and think oops all by himself, then I suppose no need for another channel.
I can help out here. I don't know about the other hoods (though it would make sense for them all to operate the same way), but ours does not have daytalk, so TSO either had another avenue of communication for what you suggest or came to his conclusion independently. I'm pretty sure it's the latter. Do you disagree?-
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Just go and check my wiki page. It's got a link to a few games of mine, two town and one scum.-
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In post 1444, Aneninen wrote:In post 1440, Garmr wrote:
I believe boons soft roleclaim as I don't see why scum would do it. I will agree through his done pretty much nothing all game.
Yes, he may be a town-PR, but he may be a scum too who wants to get a "free card" for a while. I still don't understand why he softclaimed at all. (Especally since it's in contract with his post. I mean with thelackof his posts.)
@Scripten. I've checked it. Your gameplay here is very far from the one you were scum in. It's not a very strong alignment tell though. That game was a Newbie and this one is a Large Normal with 21 players and the total amount of finished games is quite low.
I said as much earlier. I don't really have time to go back and ISO myself for the quote, but I believe I was talking to Tiershift.
Meta is useful, but people's playstyles change based on context and, if they are aware of their meta, they can analyze what works and what doesn't to improve their game.-
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In post 1525, Flubbernugget wrote:Scripten talk to me about your read on PV.
What would you like to talk about? I've already given pretty much all the thoughts I can on it. Just ISO me, the posts aren't that far up.
I find your (1361) and (1541) inconsistent. Most I can make of it is that 1541 invalidates 1361. Am I right?-
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In post 1586, AxleGreaser wrote:In post 1250, Scripten wrote:AxelGreaser: Do you findTSO backing off on his wagonto be alignment-indicative
been meaning to get back to this, please show me what you see asTSO backing off his wagon.
Not sure i agree he was ever on his own wagon, but I want what you saw as him backing off his wagon.
What? I never said TSO was on his own wagon. I'm not sure why you would think I'd say that? I said he'd backed off of Aneninen's wagon in (1240) and I wanted to know what you thought of that.
Why are you asking me this when it seemed like you understood when you answered in (1376)?-
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In post 1593, AxleGreaser wrote:
1250 is a quote, in the text of the question that I colour coded the same i made a typo and left out "on"
Well I kind of did, or rather guessed, when I looked recently I did not find a post that is clear enough about him backing off.
Also as that *only* backs of an interpretation of a set of three posts that should not from TSO claimed his case was have changed his whole read.
As I said I found the thread weird, and not helped by the number of posts replying without quoting or explicitly referring to what has a point where.
...
What?-
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In post 1600, AxleGreaser wrote:
The pink words are words you actually said.
When i quoted them I actually quoted them put them in pink, then when referring to the m I copied them but messed up an dleft out the wordon.
That is I typographical error
I never claimed you said things you didnt. I quoted you.
please stop jumping at shadows.
Yes. He backed off on the wagon he was pushing against Aneninen. I asked you to tell me what you thought of it. I'm still not seeing the disconnect here.-
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In post 1620, The Fonz wrote:
I don't think Thor's the type to back off when he thinks he has scum in his sights. This means I think the counterwagon on him is bad. If PV's town, high likelihood Flubber is scum trying to get townie points for opposing a mislynch, and use it to subsequently persecute people on the wagon. That seems to me a fairly common scum replacement strat. Not sure I see that from a PV buddy though - for the same reasons, "Replace in and hardcore chainsaw your buddy's attacker" is a pretty rare and bold scum move.
I don't think Flubbernugget is scum. At least, I'm not getting scum vibes from him. He's working pretty hard on Thor, and not doing a fantastic job of it, true. But his viewpoint feels organic to me, mostly in terms of tone and the way he is pushing and retracting his points. I mean, compare and contrast his play with PereV's, and you can probably see where I'm coming from with my vote.
Aneninen:I think we have a pretty good wagon on PereV. Not sure how happy I am with either the wagon on you or Axle, but eh.-
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In post 1888, TierShift wrote:I'm sort of reading and liking slandaar.
I like that he's started conversations outside the ones that were already there and that his posts seem to be discouraging tunneling. What's your take?-
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In post 1891, TierShift wrote:I feel very discouraged from reading because all the discussion before I left was nonsense and it probably is now. We nded a flip. Pere wouldn't be my first choice, but I can live with it
Agreed. Let's do something new. Who do you think would be the best choice to lynch today?-
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PereV:We have lots of time. I'd like to see you talk about something other than the setup. Can you give thoughts on things other than trying to tunnel me or your 1v1 with Thor? What do you think of Fonz? You had a sort of interaction with him.
How about Axle? Do you think his playstyle is helpful for the town? Do you think his pushes are in the right direction?-
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Spoiler: Egg
Spoiler: PereV
In post 2038, The Fonz wrote:@Scripten: I asked you to expand on why you think the way in which Flubbernugget retracted his reads, specifically, was townish. Please do so.
Ah crap. I meant to do this ages ago. Apologies. Going to make another post for that. Give me a few minutes.
Davesaz:I don't think that's a scumslip on Egg's part.-
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In post 2061, Thor665 wrote:In post 2060, Scripten wrote:These posts feel organic and natural. He doesn't keep pushing the exact same point over and over, but had some amount of ebb and flow to his discussion with Thor. Feels like a townish Flubbernugget to me.
I'm pretty neutral on that He changed his stances because I was battering the arguments. You'll note he walked away from me with no particular commentary about how he felt about it. That doesn't particularly vibe like townish ebb and flow. I'm not saying it's scummish either, but I don't get the town vibe.
I disagree. I don't really want to go ISO him again, but I remember seeing that he was scumhunting other people and generally interacting in a way that suggested that he hadn't just popped up to look like he was scumhunting you and left once he was out-maneuvered. In the last game I played with him, I was scum and drilled him really hard until he flipped town. Flubber being overwhelmed as town is perfectly understandable and this feels like how he would react under pressure in a large. It's not a strong town lean, but it's a bit more than null.-
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In post 2064, Egg wrote:Oh, and I debated a little on whether I should do this, but I see a lot of discussion on it and it's already out there and I kind of want to squash it.
I DOUBT VERY VERY SERIOUSLY THAT BOON IS A COP. I HAVE A REASON. I WILL NOT ELABORATE. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO ANYTHING ANYONE SAYS IN RESPONSE TO THIS.
I'm willing to listen to this. Do you think a Boon fakeclaim is alignment indicative or some sort of townie gambit?-
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In post 2067, Thor665 wrote:-
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In post 1822, Boonskiies wrote:Do you think it's obvious I'm a cop? I'd like to know how many people think that's obvious.
Somethin' like that.-
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In post 2170, beastcharizard wrote:So, who is town and who is scum?
I'm town. Thor's probably town. TSO and Davesaz are probably town. AxleGreaser... might be town? It's a tough one.
PeregrineV is most likely scum. Goodmorning is pinging my scum radar a bit. Boonskiies is... well, himself.
Everyone else is hinging on various levels of null for me.
Are you town, beastcharizard?