NY 178: MASQUERADE -- GAME OVER

[AxleGreaser]

Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.

Here's another mention of multiball that didn't bother Pere.

That is on one level a factually true statement, You make lots of those habitually. ta.
(but I suppose its possible it may have bothered him but not been publicly examined yet for some reason. but never mind.)

It didn't 'bother' me much either.

I find this comment of yours to be quite different in nature to the other one.

Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

@Thor

Do you actually think they are so very similar (tone, context, intent, and what not) and thus that anyone reading you saying one of them ought, form the same conclusion as when they read Goofy said the other?

I am rather curious because I don't think you think that. I even think you wouldn't actually claim to think that as town or scum or 3rd party.

My conclusion either you are 4th party, or I misunderstand something. I know which is more likely.

I am rather interested in the answer that you choose to give me to this question.

[Izariael]

I was trying to point out that a 5 neighborhood is suspicious

in a time of the game where people were trying to deny that the neighborhood even had one mafia any

. I wasn't implying this game had to be multiball

(I'm catching up and still at post 601, sorry if this is no longer relevant.)

Correct me if there was a different post you were referencing, but the closest I see to this is goodmorning's post:

I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

in which

she doesn't deny the possibility of mafia in a neighbourhood

but does not want to scumhunt on the assumption that there is, which I find to be a far townier perspective that what you are saying she said. It's borderline misrep.

[Izariael]

What do you think of scum being in the hoods?

Do you think that if there's more than two hoods they should claim so town atleast knows the number of hoods?

At this point, it's become clear that there are multiple neighborhoods. If the wording of the opening neighborhood post is the same for everyone in such a hood, then I think we may have 4 neighborhoods in total (possibly with 1/4 players each?), each neighborhood being a different "corner" of the room. Is there anyone who isn't part of a neighborhood that could shed some light on this? (Yes I am in one myself)

Regardless, I think it might behoove us to go ahead and lay out the neighborhoods on the table since their existence is already known. Does anyone object to doing this?

[Izariael]

That post was me saying "yes" to Nero's question and then basically rephrasing his suggestion because I think the neighborhoods should claim regardless of how many there are, be it one, two, three or more.

[Izariael]

Hmm, looks like Muffin also suggested it in 541. I don't think I saw this previously This post gets a thumbs up from me.

[Izariael]

Izariael

- Check out

her

posting in the linked Newbie game.

Completely off-topic, but I shed a tear of joy when you finally spelled my name correctly and a tear of sadness when you got my pronoun incorrect. It's a whirlwind roller coaster of emotions right now.

[davesaz]

I don't have any previous backgrounds with neighborhoods to say whether it's good to completely out them or bad. I read the wiki article which gives odds of scum in a hood depending on hood size, and assumed that the article is based on totally random hood assignment. My approach to it will most likely be to just ignore them and hunt scum the same way I would normally. The night talking thing is interesting, though the sites I played on before tended to allow private communication unless the game rules said otherwise, not like this site which prohibits unless allowed.

[Izariael]

You saw the reactions to the Scripten vote. What do you think of them (the reactions)?

I have to jolt over to work, but there were a couple of other players that I'd townread for their reactions, I just need time to find the posts in question. I'll get to this later.

So I did initially like AxleGreaser's 568 as it brought up a question that I had not thought of or addressed in my response to the post (445). However during some re-reading tonight I noticed that it did bear a resemblance to your [PeregrineV's] comment from earlier:

17. Scripten- early scumvibes. Some wording makes me wonder.392- A vote on him for "town cred" can only be town cred if Scripten is scum. Stuff like that keeps me from calling you town.

Whether it is coincidence that he chose to address a similar concern or if it was hiding a scummy vote is something I have yet to decide. For now I'm giving it a townread.

I did like Egg's reaction to the votes, as well as the post in general. (486) His Aneninen segment struck me as a bit odd in tone/motive, but overall it felt like a town thought process.

I thought I had another reaction I specifically wanted to comment on, but I can't find a post that is reminding me of who it was... so I'll just leave it at these two additions for now. Maybe my memory will get jogged later

[Muffin]

Does anyone object to doing this?

Given they've already been exposed, I definitely agree that the pro town move is to lat out who is in which neighborhood.

[Thor665]

no

When did you claim to be in a neighborhood?

This just seems really silly though. Like what was your point?

I asked it because the way you phrased it didn't come across as a claim, but rather a comment on a previous claim.

Why did you wait to claim to be in a neighborhood till this moment?

What do you think of scum being in the hoods?

Do you think that if there's more than two hoods they should claim so town atleast knows the number of hoods?

That it is likely.

Yes, i do think this.

I have said both of these things before and was even debating it with Goodmorning - why didn't you hop in on that?

Considering 4 is the meta for almost garunteed, I would say 5 people in a hood contains a scum, and maybe even multi factions.

Here's another mention of multiball that didn't bother Pere.

That is on one level a factually true statement, You make lots of those habitually. ta.
(but I suppose its possible it may have bothered him but not been publicly examined yet for some reason. but never mind.)

It didn't 'bother' me much either.

I find this comment of yours to be quite different in nature to the other one.

Well...first off multiball is a pretty safe assumption, and second off being wishy-washy is actually pretty solid scum play.

Why?

Do you actually think they are so very similar (tone, context, intent, and what not) and thus that anyone reading you saying one of them ought, form the same conclusion as when they read Goofy said the other?

Pere claims to find both of them scummy, so I suppose the answer is 'yes'.
I'm actually bewildered he finds either of them scummy, but he claims he does and is being strange about explaining them.
You seem to have missed all of this discussion though, and are asking me something meaningless.
It doesn't matter if I think he should or shouldn't - what matters is he claimed he did. Would you like to discuss that?

I am rather curious because I don't think you think that. I even think you wouldn't actually claim to think that as town or scum or 3rd party.

Pere *has* claimed this...so what do you think that makes him?

My conclusion either you are 4th party, or I misunderstand something. I know which is more likely.

What is a 4th party?

I am rather interested in the answer that you choose to give me to this question.

I am interested in your response now as well..

[Izariael]

It's actually hilarious how badly both you and PereV are missing what Thor has been saying. I'm just pointing out how obvious it should be to everyone else. All of these attempts to outguess the mod/setup are really just moot points.

What has Thor been saying? In your own words.

I'd also like this clarified, since it seemed directed at me but I don't actually understand what Thor comment it's referring to. Thor's address of Peregrine and I are two separate topics, so clumping them in together to say "[we're both] missing what Thor has been saying" seems like an attempt to buddy up with Thor.

My point was that the discussion was centering on an argument over whether or not this game was multiball on one side, while the other side was examining the motivations behind the discussion. PeregrineV was accusing Thor of being scum for bringing up multiball, but Thor was not claiming that PeregrineV was scummy because he disagreed. There was this cognitive dissonance between what Thor was saying and what everyone else involved seemed to be hearing. He's since explained this better than I can. (After all, I'm not in his head.)

I'm still not quite sure why your statement in 606 was directed at me then... I don't recall being involved in their multiball discussion, but have been observing that discussion from the sidelines. How did I fit in with all of this?

@Everyone - Pere claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now.

Heh. I like this. Not yet ready to sheep Thor, but this is a good post.

And this is a terrible post. If I say "@Everyone - Scripten claimed scum. I caught him. You may sheep me now." will you think this is a good post too?

If

you actually had anything and

I didn't have a sexy green role PM

, maybe.

Given that this is completely non-confirmable outside of your dying role-flip, how do you expect anyone to hold this as a townread for you?

@PeregrineV:

I'm actually very curious to know your stance on this. Do you think his bolded statement is something that should reassure us of his towniness?

[goodmorning]

I was trying to point out that a 5 neighborhood is suspicious

in a time of the game where people were trying to deny that the neighborhood even had one mafia any

. I wasn't implying this game had to be multiball

(I'm catching up and still at post 601, sorry if this is no longer relevant.)

Correct me if there was a different post you were referencing, but the closest I see to this is goodmorning's post:

I was ignoring the Neighbourhood claim because it's not particularly beneficial to out it atm.

Yes, I'm in a Neighbourhood with 3 others and Cho. No, I don't think we can say there's absolutely Scum in the Neighbourhood, though it is likely.

Neighbour claim is indeed completely irrelevant to what's been posted thus far.

in which

she doesn't deny the possibility of mafia in a neighbourhood

but does not want to scumhunt on the assumption that there is, which I find to be a far townier perspective that what you are saying she said. It's borderline misrep.

This was basically the post I was going to make, so instead of making that post I'm quoting this.


I think perhaps the number of Neighbourhoods would be useful to know, but then I think if it turns out everyone's in a neighbourhood then they could easily have been generated randomly, which would tell us nothing.

[Izariael]

Does anyone object to doing this?

Given they've already been exposed, I definitely agree that the pro town move is to lat out who is in which neighborhood.

Muffin you silly beaannnn, you already suggested this. You've had your cookie... let the other kids come up to the counter.

At this point in time I don't think it's alignment-indicative any more

so I don't know why I bothered to ask really. There's really no town motivation to hide the neighborhoods any more, and scum would be silly to try to stop it from happening. Revealing them is more just a formality than anything now.

The way I see it, scum will be talking amongst themselves on night 1 (if they didn't already do so on night 0) and revealing to one another who is in their neighborhoods, if applicable. Town may as well be on the same page now by opening up before we've lost any numbers. The more people we lose the easier it would become for scum to fabricate details.

My neighborhood consists of Aneninen, Boonskiies, Cho, goodmorning and me.

[TierShift]

Spoiler: I don't like this post

I'm seeing TSO as town. I have been in some pissing matches (looking at you Thor), but TSO took it to another level. I know effort doesn't indicate alignment but TSOs effort and willingness to respond to everything indicates null town at the least.

The content of his effort doesn't

feel

scummy.

I think he should try not to tunnel so much because it gives scum some leverage when pushing a wagon.

Cho or tier could be scum but Chos posts are horrible. I think he jumped on an easy wagon and he has been ambiguous about it.

Sheeping isn't towny at all this early.

youre hiding behind someone else's actions with out even having a real read on the person you are sheeping.

Has a slight buddying feel to it as well.

This is after a quick read and a phone post. I would liketo touch on the Nero/Toby duel after I reread.

My strongest town read is good morning

. Not any easy reads either way.

-shitty phone post

I find myself agreeing with most of this post upon catching up on the thread. Even beyond this post, I'm willing to give the slot a town pass for now. Csareo seemed like he dove off the deep end but forgot his little floaters...

-------------------------------------------------

On my first read-through, goodmorning was top townread, but now that I've gone back I'm kind of second-guessing that read. Didn't care much for 239 in particular, her defense of T S O seems a bit excessive, and then it gets followed up by this:

So I've found myself defending TSO. That's pretty strong for me. This is where I figure out whether it's because of circumstance or is an actual townread.

I seem to have concluded that TSO is Town.

I'm putting her as town for now, but this did smell a little funky. Smells like goddamn "eau de oiseau" or something...

-------------------------------------------------

I'm hesitant to lean town on T S O. I'm not sure that his interaction with Csareo is alignment-indicative, but it seems genuine. Probably gonna hold back on a read for now until something piques my interest from him.

-------------------------------------------------

Top scumread would be Scripten. I'm irked by everything in his ISO. Non-committal, flimsy reads and a lackadaisical vote on top wagon are raising my hackles.

VOTE: Scripten

Well, your presented case on him is pretty paper thin as stands, so it's not like you're even seeing anything.
My read on him is more one of gut and 'I agree with that' but I like how he singled out Tier as looking town and didn't mention GM - which is where I'm at and feels a logical town place to be rather than a scum looking to toss out some easy town reads.

I like you, thor. You're probably town. I like the non-read on gm that I am feelng myself.

[@pere:]
Your post here is shockingly empty.

Agreed.

Disclaimer: this is my first large game and I have no idea how to approach it.

VOTE: TierShift
Deal with it.

This would be the scum approach to dealing with a previously unknown environment.

If this is a serious post, please elaborate.

[Scripten]

I'm still not quite sure why your statement in 606 was directed at me then... I don't recall being involved in their multiball discussion, but have been observing that discussion from the sidelines. How did I fit in with all of this?

Misunderstanding why I liked that post of Thor's is directly related to misunderstanding the nature of that post. That is, you looked at it only in the most superficial fashion. He was (as I interpreted it) indicating that PeregrineV's motivations were in question more than his stance on whether or not the game is multiball.

Given that this is completely non-confirmable outside of your dying role-flip, how do you expect anyone

[else]

to hold this as a townread for you?

I don't. You specifically asked me a question and I replied from my specific PoV. Do you see where the context of Thor's case on PeregrineV differs from yours?

---

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

[goodmorning]

ey

ey tier

you wanna stop kissing ass for five seconds and read thor again?

[T S O]

I hope you weren't expecting to get towncred or something from that.

[Izariael]

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

Given that it is no longer alignment-indicative to be revealing ho is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?

[TierShift]

Yo yo gm soon I'm only on like page 18

[Izariael]

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

Given that it is

was never

alignment-indicative to be revealing

who

is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?

EBWOP.

[Scripten]

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

Given that it is no longer alignment-indicative to be revealing ho is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?

Because an easily-compiled list of neighborhood composition is pro-town.

[Izariael]

Spoiler: I don't like this post

I'm seeing TSO as town. I have been in some pissing matches (looking at you Thor), but TSO took it to another level. I know effort doesn't indicate alignment but TSOs effort and willingness to respond to everything indicates null town at the least.

The content of his effort doesn't

feel

scummy.

I think he should try not to tunnel so much because it gives scum some leverage when pushing a wagon.

Cho or tier could be scum but Chos posts are horrible. I think he jumped on an easy wagon and he has been ambiguous about it.

Sheeping isn't towny at all this early.

youre hiding behind someone else's actions with out even having a real read on the person you are sheeping.

Has a slight buddying feel to it as well.

This is after a quick read and a phone post. I would liketo touch on the Nero/Toby duel after I reread.

My strongest town read is good morning

. Not any easy reads either way.

-shitty phone post

I find myself agreeing with most of this post upon catching up on the thread. Even beyond this post, I'm willing to give the slot a town pass for now. Csareo seemed like he dove off the deep end but forgot his little floaters...

-------------------------------------------------

On my first read-through, goodmorning was top townread, but now that I've gone back I'm kind of second-guessing that read. Didn't care much for 239 in particular, her defense of T S O seems a bit excessive, and then it gets followed up by this:

So I've found myself defending TSO. That's pretty strong for me. This is where I figure out whether it's because of circumstance or is an actual townread.

I seem to have concluded that TSO is Town.

I'm putting her as town for now, but this did smell a little funky. Smells like goddamn "eau de oiseau" or something...

-------------------------------------------------

I'm hesitant to lean town on T S O. I'm not sure that his interaction with Csareo is alignment-indicative, but it seems genuine. Probably gonna hold back on a read for now until something piques my interest from him.

-------------------------------------------------

Top scumread would be Scripten. I'm irked by everything in his ISO. Non-committal, flimsy reads and a lackadaisical vote on top wagon are raising my hackles.

VOTE: Scripten

Would you care to be specific about what you don't like? This is an incredibly vague criticism that leaves a lot to the imagination.

[Thor665]

ey

ey tier

you wanna stop kissing Smurf for five seconds and read thor again?

After he does I look forward to hearing what he should have seen.

A neighborhood just got claimed, how are you feeling about that?

[Izariael]

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

Given that it is no longer alignment-indicative to be revealing ho is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?

Because an easily-compiled list of neighborhood composition is pro-town.

But the time for being up-front and pro-active about neighborhood composition is long past. Throwing it out there now is a formality more than anything, since everyone is aware that multiple neighborhoods are in play. It might be pro-town, but I would expect scum to follow suit as well because it would be blatantly scummy not to.

[T S O]

My neighborhood is davesaz, Nero Cain, and TSO. I believe this may have already come out, but I'd like it in my ISO for people to see.

Given that it is no longer alignment-indicative to be revealing ho is in your neighborhood, why is it important to you that this is in your ISO?

Because an easily-compiled list of neighborhood composition is pro-town.

What's pro-town about it again?