Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[WhoMe?]

vote curiouskarmadog

it's right in his name that he's a wolf!

[WhoMe?]

Any noXKill's taken place before? If anyone can point me at a completed game I would like to have a read through.

[WhoMe?]

I'd point you to Mafia 59. Similar kind of setup.

cheers. I'll take a look

[WhoMe?]

Vote: whome?

Yes, you!

I wish i had a pund for eveytime someone used that in random voting. Hell I wish I had a pound for everytime YOU used that in random voting

[WhoMe?]

are you serious?

theopor_COD's vote on me was random, at least that's what I thought. you really think a lack of bolding is heinous? Until theopor pops up and informs us all of the seriosuness of his vote then I will continue to believe it is random. Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

[WhoMe?]

Karen so far;

ridiculous reasoning for a vote on me
indication to go after flyinghawk next for pointing this out
FOS on chocolateattack for voting her based on this craplogic

unvote vote Karen

[WhoMe?]

Erm yeh my vote wasn't serious. It never is page one. However we've got so many newbies in here I'm not sure if Karen realised that, I didn't expect WhoMe? to answer anything about the vote either. Further more I don't really have a great problem with her aggressive jibe against Flyinghawk, the FOS against Chocolate admittedly is scummy.

unvote

Karen - as I said, it wasn't a serious vote. Care to try again?

[WhoMe?]

you can post in threads that you aren't a player in? Live and learn, I had assumed they were locked down.

[WhoMe?]

Actually....now that I think about it....I'd really like to see what this "duel" entails. We should get two potential scums tied before deadline, and watch what happens.

Cus if we don't, it'll bug me all game, and I'm sure I'm not the only one curious about it

then be curious no more. They will have to play rock/paper/scissors, the loser swings.

[WhoMe?]

How are you making this decision exactly? We're on day one, we don't know how many scum there are, we don't know what town power roles we have, yet somehow you magically know this is stacked against us?

Seriously, if you don't want to play, request a replacement.

[WhoMe?]

Must be a spankingly good town role to give you information on people when we had a daystart.

confirm vote Karen.

[WhoMe?]

ummm, anyone think this Karen lynch is too easy? Seems like there is a rush of voting, pushing, and bandwagoning and someone who appears to be a newbie.

I thought about that angle myself, but when I had a look at her other posts, she has subbed into a newbie game, where her contributions are not of the manic kind we are seeing here.

[WhoMe?]

compared to the votes in here, the votes there are supported by the logic of the sages! Plus why are we worrying about the day ending, she's at, what L-5, and one of the votes on her is her own! Also, Day 1 is going to be the least informational of the game. On future days when the opposing scum have some idea who each other are, they are going to have to try to push through a lynch without outing themselves. What fun!

[WhoMe?]

No, I am saying we can derail this wagon at any point before lynch. Seeing who jumps on and who doesn't could be valuable. I am also saying I see no real point in a really really long day one, but I wouldn't want to see 4 quick votes end the day right now.

[WhoMe?]

Town, just watch the people voting Karen. There's probably 4-8 scumv in this game... They will be trying to start a bandwagon. Even if Karen is say part of the werewolves, (I think it's werewolves?) the Mafia guys from the other gang of scum will be trying to lynch her. If she's town both gangs want her gone. So either way, scum want her out.

so you're saying that if she's mafia she'll have werewolf scum on her, if she's werewolf she'll have mafia scum on her and if she's town she'll have both sets of scum on her so we shouldn't be voting for her? Did you miss the part where this applies to EVERYONE IN THE GAME!

[WhoMe?]

I broadly agree with zoneace's reasoning. Luckily my vote already reflects this.

[WhoMe?]

You have got to be f-ing kidding me, you have just taken the cake for the scummiest post thus far. You just told us that lynching a townies is better than lynching someone who bandwagons. Note he doesnt even say lynching a bad townie that could be scum..he just wants to lynch a bad townie. Also note he does not provide the alignment of the "bandwagoner". this guy is scum...

I broadly agree with zoneace's reasoning. Luckily my vote already reflects this.

you agree that lynching a townie is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning? Note that he never states that the alignment of the bandwagoner…

Firstly, you seem to have excluded all possibility that Karen is scum

secondly, you are going to have to explain to me why someone who bandwagons is a better play than someone who is randomly aggressive for really craplogic.

[WhoMe?]

I think I could have been clearer there

you agree that lynching a townie is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning? Note that he never states that the alignment of the bandwagoner

no what he said, and I agreed with is that lynching

Karen

is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning. You seem to have swapped out karen and replaced it with townie. This is not the point. Karen is either scum or a bad townie, there is no reason to suppose her to be 100% town.

[WhoMe?]

i'm drawing a blank. Hard to gather much info from the Karen lynch, and having quickly looked over ultima and theopor's posts I can't see why they would have been targeted. Anyone got a plan?

[WhoMe?]

ah. one of the Karen apologists. OMGUS

vote dybeck

[WhoMe?]

i wonder if it meant he could vig werewolves, or just that he was immune to werewolf NK, which would make them think he was mafia.

[WhoMe?]

As I read the current situation, both NK's went through, so the scum, assuming no investigative scum roles, can not be certain who the other side is. At the point where 1 or more NK's have failed, quick/overly forceful/crap logic lycnhes should give us leads on our scum. For now the noXkill flavour doesn't give us much of anything to base our reasoning on.

[WhoMe?]

Maybe they wanted to be sure he was on the other side. A failed NK would be an almost certain "other side" indication. Their NK choice is kind of like an investigation in the old witch trials sense, if they survive they're a witch, if they die they're a stand up guy....

[WhoMe?]

Why do you think that do you think keeping a vote on for the logest period of time is suspicious? they voted for her early and then her behavior as the day progressed just made here MORE suspicious, so they really didn't have a reason to unvote her.

This certainly explains my reasoning. I went on her with an OMGUSy type vote and then just felt better and better about the vote the more she posted.

[WhoMe?]

unvote

I need to read up on Cephrir and Greenday, then I will decide where to put my vote.

[WhoMe?]

I still have my eye on Dybeck. The town is looking at GreenDay and Cephrir. I am going to have a look at those two. If I can find so,ething I will vote one of them, with reasoning. If I can't find something and want to push a lynch on someone else (Dybeck or whomever), then I will have to build a case and put my vote behind it. So for now, I want my vote uncommitted.

[WhoMe?]

OK. after a reread I can totally get behind one of the wagons..........

vote Green Day

When he first voted Karen he came back after 30 minutes and added an explanation. I'm thinking he started worrying about a wagon vote so came back to tack a reason on to it later. I don't think it was just a mistake to leave it off, because when he voted me, and made a mistake with the tags, he posted a correction immediately.

I fully agree with you there. Karen has by far been the scummiest person. I just reckon to watch everyone voting for her as well. I know about half of them would be townies, there is certainly going to be one or two scum voting for her at the moment out of about 7 votes on her.

Surely you should be voting the person who has been by far the scummiest in the game? Unless of course you know they are going to come up town and you don't want to be on that wagon.

[WhoMe?]

Top 3

Green Day
Dybeck
Everyone else

[WhoMe?]

Is there anyone who feels lynching Green Day would be a bad idea?

I'm OK with it just going purely off the fact he isn't here defending himself. If you are town Green Day, then get in here and make a fuss!

[WhoMe?]

Toffee or plain?

[WhoMe?]

Is there anyone who feels lynching Green Day would be a bad idea?

I wouldn't mind it, except you're scum, so I'd much rather lynch you. That clearly isn't going to happen though.

in addition to not minding a Green Day lynch, you FOS'd him and put him on your scum list of 3. None of this troubles me, as I found him suspicious myself. What troubles me is this.

And then we have Thorn. You're trying to put Thorn's lynch on

ME!?

I didn't even VOTE for Thorn. I was totally against the lynch ALL DAY, until it became either her or me, at which point I STILL DID NOT VOTE FOR HER. I'm not ure how you manage to take "I know I'm town so Thorn is clearly a better choice" and turn it into "Daykill: Thorn", which is the only way I could have singlehandedly killed her.

Unvote, Vote CKD

In no way were you against a Green Day/Thorn lynch all day. This is a lie

vote Cephrir

[WhoMe?]

im still around guys. Im not inactive, I just have seen no reason to change my vote.

[WhoMe?]

OK, This game needs some serious analysis. I will be away from home this weekend, so will be away from my notes, but I will have internet access so i will be checking the thread.

[WhoMe?]

also, some quick math...we are 8:3:3

how can we be sure of this? we don;t have certain knowledge of the scum team numbers do we?

[WhoMe?]

vote ckd

- lets get that claim out of the way.

[WhoMe?]

Yes I was indeed on all the mislynches. Am I the only one?

[WhoMe?]

hmm so Im being singled out by someone who was on 2 of the mislynches himself....

[WhoMe?]

In my defence, notice that I am an early vote in all cases.

[WhoMe?]

who did you protect on nights 1 & 3 and why did you choose those people to protect?

[WhoMe?]

i'm not buying it.

if you're lying you won't be killed tonight due to the no X kill. If you're telling the truth you still won't be killed tonight because

a) you have no power on even nights
b) scum will not target you so as to set you up

I think you're lying and you think you can save yourself today AND tomorrow as when dawn comes tomorrow and you are still around, you will go all WIFOMy and claim you have been kept alive as an easy day 5 lynch.

my vote stays

[WhoMe?]

I say we are win, win. We need to lynch mafia right ?and it does not matter if CKD is telling the truth or not he has to give up a scum..If hes town then he needs to lynch scum and if hes scum he needs to show hes Town so he needs to lynch scum. Argue the toss tomorrow.Pressure on Who me and see what happens. Back to Basics. Does this make sense to anyone else but me?

VOTE WHO ME

it's even harder than that. we have had nights with fewer than 2 kills. That means that the scum team(s) have information on the other scum (or protective roles got lucky) Anyone who is a little too on the ball when hunting scum, could well be a scum of the opposing team. Just something to chew on.

[WhoMe?]

umm guys - this game is in the New York forum - games with basic roles only, does sorceror fall into this list?

[WhoMe?]

ill try to explain again

Scenario 1 you are lying about your claim and are scum.

result - you will not be killed tonight (scum cannot x kill) tomorrow you would give a WIFOM type argument about how scum had kept you alive to set you up

Scenario 2 you are telling the truth about your role

resulst you have no protect tonight as it is an even night, the scum may kill you, or they may leave you alive to set you up for a lynch the next day


If we leave you alive today the likelihood is that you will not get lynched tonight regardless of your alignment.

[WhoMe?]

OK i have read the wiki on the sorceror role

according to the wiki

sorceror = doc who can only protect against werewolf kills

ckd is claiming he can protect against both scum factions, but only on odd nights

so, the question is, how much faith do we have in this claim? I don't have any.

[WhoMe?]

CKD - that bird won't fly. You damn well asked me for clarification. Don't complain when I provide it.

[WhoMe?]

You never did, although you never said specifically that you only guard against wolves, you did say you were a sorcerer, which is a wolf only protection.

WhoMe is makin up animals .

ummm no. he claimed he could protect on odd nights. I took that to mean protect against any scum kill. If he wanted it to mean he could only protect against ww's then he should have said so. Is that in fact the lcaim you are making CKD?

[WhoMe?]

I am a sorcerer, I can protect every odd night...sorry I was forced to claim town...but hopefully we can get scum out of the wagon.

anyone else think i was making up stuff to assume this meant he could protect against both scum factions?

[WhoMe?]

i am unfamiliar with the sorceror role, hence my misunderstanding of your claim. With the clarification received I am more accepting of your claim

unvote CKD

[/b]

[WhoMe?]

I hope you have also learned that

"lynch A and if he comes up town you can lynch me tomorrow"

is a godawful play when you are a town power role!

[WhoMe?]

i'm not voting you. when you first claimed and i read up on the role i thought i had caught you in a lie, but when i learned that was just my misunderstanding i unvoted.

[WhoMe?]

seriously, there is no way CKD is the lynch for today. I just assume the people voting you haven't been around since ooba's claim.

[WhoMe?]

This was before I had read the wiki and thought i found a lie etc. The reasonign behind this was basically, yesterday he was lynch Cephrir and if im wrong lynch me. Today he was you can't lynch me im a weird ass protective role, see hwt happens tonight. I found that very scummy, especially as the likelihood was nothing would happen that night regardless of his alignment. Just seemed like perpetual stalling and very scummy also.

[WhoMe?]

also, whatis a wolfsbane's "power"? immune to ww kills? can protect others from ww kills?

[WhoMe?]

thx

[WhoMe?]

So, WhoMe... you and I (and the guy I replaced) have both voted for all three townie lynches. I can't speak for my original player, but I really did think that CKD had made a good case (albeit with a few holes) for Cephrir -- why did you vote for all three townies?

Karen - nuff said

Green Day/Thorn - the whole pushing the karen bandwagon whilst not voting onit, added to Green Day disappearing and then his replacement not posting either. Looked like scum who had given up.

Cephrir - guy seemed scummy, and then gave up at the end again. I always think a good town go's down fighting.

[WhoMe?]

And yet they both 'gave up', and even CKD voted for himself... if that's not giving up, I don't know what is. Have you considered getting your towndar re-synchronized?

the difference with CKD is that he has a corroborating claim. I don't think I even have a towndar based on this game.....

[WhoMe?]

vote Peers

Nice info tarharlindur

[WhoMe?]

People continuously miss a salient mechanic of this game.

Scum must LYNCH scum. Scum do not want to lynch town. They want to NK town.

Wolves tried to NK Peers. They failed. Now they want him lynched.

He isn't wolvesbane. Wolvesbane is dead.

Greater likelyhood is Tar is town and Peers is scum.

But that's bullcrap too. Peers is mafia. Tar is wolf making up an elaborate Tar story.

I agree we should keep your possibility in mind, and we can investigate it by getting info from Tar every day, but there is at least a chance he is town exactly as he says yes?

[WhoMe?]

seriously, why would we want to end the day before this discussion is finished?

unvote

[WhoMe?]

we have one scum unmasked. He has accused others. There's all kinds of information up for grabs. I want to hear what cicero has to say.

[WhoMe?]

whenyou claimed the discussion wasnt that interesting

I'm not scum

yes you are

repeat as necessary.

This is a totally different scenario.

[WhoMe?]

You're in an awfully big hurry for a townie, CKD. If I hammer I'll have to wait until tomorrow to make an argument that you are scum.

And if you wolves tear me to pieces in the night I'm quite unlikely to be able to do that.

Which is what I think is exactly what you want.

Now - slow your roll, lad. I'll be along in a minute.

i'm waiting for his follow up to this. You seem to be very worried about this for a townie....

[WhoMe?]

I was saying, when yoour wagon was progressing the discussion consisted of

CKD: "I'm not scum"

followed by your accusers

"Yes you are"

This is different.

[WhoMe?]

You don't see the difference?

Peers is scum, we can take that to the bank. He can be lynched whenever it is most advantageous for the town, and we now need to milk this situation for all the info we can.

[WhoMe?]

no, i read worried in your continued aggro at us not having finished peers off yet

[WhoMe?]

Yes I want to lynch scum, and Peers is the lynch for today whatever else develops. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush etc. My position is now that we KNOW he is scum, there is no reason to speed lynch him.

[WhoMe?]

ooba, given that yoiu and ckd werent given each others identities, isnt it a large coincidence you have been protecting each other?

[WhoMe?]

in my opinion we have to lynch one of Peers Tarharlindur today. Why risk a mislynch when we can strike gold

[WhoMe?]

By the way, is we are going to try and direct the scum's kill targets, does that mean we need to get claims from the people to be targeted? Do we really want more town power roles potentially outed at this point?

Vote Tar

[WhoMe?]

they don't have to take our direction. Yes they want to ekiminate wolves, but they also want to confuse us and ultimately win.

[WhoMe?]

oh and its not quite analogous. NK's won't work on scum, but will pinpoint them for future lynching IF we can believe the scum acted as directed, but if they hit a townie BANG they are gone. Or worse, if they hit a protected townie, we may thing they are scum. This needs great care.

[WhoMe?]

if we are goign the directed scum route, then isn't Peers the lynch for today? He can be overriden by his Godfather, whereas Tar is claiming Alpha wolf.

[WhoMe?]

going off tar claiming alpha, I think we can assume a symmetrical role of godfather

[WhoMe?]

Gee, what a surprise, I'm a wolf (the wolf who's been guiding the kill decisions, no less - my reasoning lies behind all three wolf kill attempts so far).

i had took this to be an alpha claim. I see on re-read that I have put too much into it.

[WhoMe?]

Tar - if we kill a mafia today, then it allows the wolves to, i don't know, fulfill their win condition. or am i missing something?

[WhoMe?]

I'm more interested inhearing the mafia target right now. As I said yesterday, there being alive could mean that they are wolves OR that they are genuine and are being set up.

[WhoMe?]

if we are going to lynch one of the claimed sorcerors, wouldn't it be better to lynch ooba, as ckd has the protect tonight if he comes up telling the truth?

[WhoMe?]

FOS TWOMZ

a tame mafia is a town advantage, especially as there was no mafia kill last night. I think Peers should spill the info now and then we can sort between the scenaios

a) he's lying

b) we have a wolf

c) we have a protected townie

d) we have a protected wolf

[WhoMe?]

... Town- please play this day right....You have let scum dominate this game.

hmm shouldn't that be WE have let wscum dominate.... are you not part of the town, was that a slip?

[WhoMe?]

if you think i'm scum then vote me.

[WhoMe?]

just reviewed again. Your stated case on me thus far consists solely of me being on all 3 mislynches. This would carry more weight if you yourself hadn't been on two of them....

[WhoMe?]

and still you haven't told us who the mafia target was last night. You're only useful to us as an information source. Spill it or die

vote Peers

[WhoMe?]

You're asking me? You're not worried in the slightest about providing good information for the town. Your agenda is transparent

1. eliminate wolves

2. out town power roles

I'm right behind you on 1, but am notwilling to help you with 2.

[WhoMe?]

cicero - does that make you immune to Mafia & wolves or just wolves? Is it the opposite side of the coin to the wolvesbane?

[WhoMe?]

unvote, vote davidangelsummers

I can't see any reason for you to lie right now, as any lie would mean you get the chop tomorrow.

[WhoMe?]

ummm good point. The only way he can survive is to provide targets, so it becomes more and more likely that the target we're given is made up to get him another day.

[WhoMe?]

Well, then. For the reason that we targetted him last night, he failed to die, and someone else has claimed BV, and the doc should have been smart enough to stay the heck out of it...

Vote: davidangelsummers

If you cant see through this then your crazy...iif your town just hold off and let scum pile on..Then your have your scum list...

See through what? Are you claiming that you're so obviously super town that Peers is automatically going to lie to get rid of you?

Fact - there was no mafia kill last night

Peers has claimed that you were that target, which makes you a prime wolf suspect in my book.

[WhoMe?]

at this point, i'm leaning towards sorcerors are kosher. Everything has been 2 sided, so why assume a protect all doc, a wolf specific protect (sorceror) and a mafia specific protect (doc) makes sense. Of course we could be looking at 4 person scum teams (god I hope not) in which case ooba & ckd could be the last 2 months, but I consider this unlikely

[WhoMe?]

The problem comes though on a night when the mafia kill goes through. You're better than a random lynch in that circumstance.

[WhoMe?]

By the way, doesn't my existence lead to the possibility of a town mafia draw if we eliminate the wolves and I'm alive?

you would each vote the other and then the tie breaking duel could come into play, or is that not valid for game winning situations?

[WhoMe?]

First of all i think the entire "There are two members of the mafia while there are three wolves" is laughable .. But why did your mafia brothers want to target DAS?

Maybe the reason we hit lots of town early on is down to there having been 2 2 man scum teams. I'm not saying it's likely, but it's a possibility.

[WhoMe?]

2 sorcerors who alternate in having the protect is equivalent to one doc. I still expect there to be equally sized scum teams.

[WhoMe?]

at this point, i'm leaning towards sorcerors are kosher. Everything has been 2 sided, so why assume a protect all doc, a wolf specific protect (sorceror) and a mafia specific protect (doc) makes sense. Of course we could be looking at 4 person scum teams (god I hope not) in which case ooba & ckd could be the last 2 months, but I consider this unlikely

EBWOP

be the last 2 wolves. wolves not months. That has to be thje strangest typo i've ever made.

[WhoMe?]

granted, but it's still one protect a night. I think you are trying to 'hide' a mafioso. When it's time to start worrying about LyLo though, I am going to include that hidden one in my sums!

[WhoMe?]

I still say we shouldn't trust peers... but I am fine with a DAS lynch for information. It kinda rubs me the wrong way that we know we have a mafiaso and aren't lynching them. But, I guess that is just me.

I agree with Zoneace that we should wait for everyone to post before ending the day.

and with this post you make my list as most likely to be a wolf. He gave us Tar. There was no mafia kill last night, why should we not trust peers? the very second we catch him lying, he is lynched. I think you are the person i would like to see mafia targetted tonight

[WhoMe?]

if they lynch a townie we haven't picked for investigation, does that mean we string up Peers? I'm not sure what the tame mafia protocol is here.

[WhoMe?]

i'm not buying it. The fact there was no mafia kill last night gives us these scenarios

1) they submitted no target, with the intention of naming someone as un NKable to get them lynched

2) they did target someone, but they have given us DAS's name in stead of the person they targetted

3) they targetted DAS

options 1 & 2 offer no advantage to the mafia, so I see no reason to think thats the situation we are in. You are a wolf DAS, nothing else makes sense

[WhoMe?]

Oh, btw I assume you would have us believe you are a vanilla townie?

[WhoMe?]

DAS - so you believe either the mafia chose not to target anyone last night, or they in fact do know who a wolf is, but are gettting you lynched in favor of their known wolf.

This is crap. That would result in Peers being speed lynched tomorrow, which would leave the mafia without their easiest route to lynching their known wolf.

More plausible is your suggestion that you were doc protected, apart from the fact that we don't know if we have one, and if we do he was prompted to protect no-one last night.

If Peers is indeed lying, then I do not understand the mafia's strategy at all, and will be locked on Peers tomorrow. I still believe you are a wolf.

[WhoMe?]

Bah, go town!

[WhoMe?]

gooooo town

Thanks Dead Rikimaru, good game. It moved along at a reasonable pace too.