Mafia 69: noXkill - Game over!

[ZONEACE]

Ok, i gotta post again i've done some re-reading and I think all FOSing of cephrir is also a little suspicious. He hasn't done anything, atleast in my eyes, that is at all suspcious. He so far seems substantially protown.

EVERY SINGLE REASON QUOTED FOR LYNCHING KAREN HAS BEEN BASED UPON HER BEING A BAD PLAYER!

THIS DOES NOT MATTER ONE IOTA IN THE MATTER OF SCUM VS TOWN.

WHAT ARE YOU ALL NOT GETTING HERE?

Not all of the reasons for voting Karen are based on her being a bad player, just most of them. And also, like I said before, in games that start with day the first lynch is USUALLY town because we really have no solid info to go on, so even if Karen ISN'T scum (although i believe she actually is) why not make that first townie lynch a townie that isn't helping the town. Lynching a non-hellpful townie is better than lynching an active and possibly helpful townie inspite of a few suspcions.

so with that I'm gonna

VOTE KAREN

and

FOS that would be a vote if Karen weren't there on Dybeck

for his unending defense of the player that seems most scummy now.


and I'd just like to state one more time that lynching a BAD PLAYING townie day one, is better than lynching someone who bandwagons that BAD PLAYING townie because they are a BAD PLAYING townie. our best move right now is to get rid of karen because shes likely scum and even if she isn't she's not doing anything to help the town and likely won't be able to help us in the future.

[ZONEACE]

ugh, i messed up those quote tags, could the mod PLEASE FIX THEM . thankie.

MOD NOTE:

Fixed.

[WhoMe?]

I broadly agree with zoneace's reasoning. Luckily my vote already reflects this.

[Green Day]

Unvote

I think I'm passed voting for WhoMe? at the moment. I have a small

FOS

on

Karen

, for reasons stated above by Zoneface. Sorry I haven't been talking much, I don't have enough time to do a detailed inquiry at the moment.

[ZONEACE]

for reasons stated above by

Zoneface

cough

no f

cough

[davidangelsummers]

So we got people for and against the idea of Karen..but no Karen ..When we do hear from her shes for the lynch of herself..confussed? Me too..Find out here, same mafia page, same mafia channel

[ZONEACE]

could we please get a prod on Blight, Fernando, Karen, Kison and UltimaAvalaon. Its been AT LEAST 2 days since any of them has posted on the thread and well thats a quarter of the players, and right now we're kinda dying from lack of activity.

and with that

FOS everyone not being very active

[Blight]

I'm still here, and I'm still comfortable with my vote on GreenDay.

[Kison]

I am still not feeling the Karen wagon.

[Dead Rikimaru]

Mafia (also known as Cosa Nostra) is a notorious Italian criminal secret society which first developed in the mid-19th century in Sicily. An offshoot emerged on the East Coast of the United States and in Australia[1] during the late 19th century following waves of Sicilian and Southern Italian emigration

ELEVENTH VOTECOUNT

Karen

(7) - Flyinghawk , ChocolateAttack , WhoMe? , Twomz , Sonicpulsar , Cephrir , ZONEACE

Cephrir

(3) - Kison , thinktank , dybeck

UltimaAvalon

(2) - UltimaAvalon , Honary Hitchhiker

WhoMe?

(1) - Karen

Green Day

(1) - Blight

Davidangelsummers

(1) - curiouskarmadog

curiouskarmadog

(1) - davidangelsummers

dybeck

(1) - Tarhalindur

Not voting

(3):Green Day , theopor_COD , FeRnAnDo

Needed for a lynch: 11 votes
Negotiable deadline: 22 days

If by deadline no one has 11 votes player with more votes is lynched
If two players have same number of votes lynch is decided by duel

GAME EVENT

Activity check PM sent to several players

[ZONEACE]

FOS Kison and Blight

Kison has made 4 posts, 1 was a normal first post random vote, the second was explaining what FOS meant the third was voting for someone who was voting for karen and the 4th was just saying that they still aren't feeling the Karen bandwagon. Serious lurking. very suspicious. If you aren't feeling it, then give us something else to go on. You vote for Cephrir has LESS reason behind it than any of the votes for Karen sooo, really you're doing the same thing you're accusing the person you're voting for of doing, and that just doesn't sit well with me.

as for blight, the lurking is really suspicious here also. 4 posts, 1 random vote, 1 vote for someone voting for a bandwagon (a normal day one activity) 1 post confirming the vote for that person because they had a change of heart and a 4th saying they're comfortable with they're vote. You haven't added ANYTHING useful to the game.

People who lurk, and don't add useful things to the game are not helping the town, and thusly should be looked at as suspicious.

others that fall under this are
UltimaAvalon (voted for self, and hasn't added anyhting to the thread)
Honorary Hitchhiker (only 4 posts, still has random vote on, pointing fingers at people that really aren't the target of any suspicion, general lack of substantial helpful posts)
Fernando (though not really any suspicions here, just general lack of participation)


While Tarhalindur's only posted 3 times those posts have been long logical and related to the game and helping the game along so thats why s/he (no gender noted so sorry about that). isn't on the above list.

[curiouskarmadog]

Not all of the reasons for voting Karen are based on her being a bad player, just most of them. And also, like I said before, in games that start with day the first lynch is USUALLY town because we really have no solid info to go on, so even if Karen ISN'T scum (although i believe she actually is) why not make that first townie lynch a townie that isn't helping the town. Lynching a non-hellpful townie is better than lynching an active and possibly helpful townie inspite of a few suspcions.

so with that I'm gonna

VOTE KAREN

and

FOS that would be a vote if Karen weren't there on Dybeck

for his unending defense of the player that seems most scummy now.

Are you kidding me? I absolutely agree with dybeck. So if you FoS dybeck you should go ahead and FoS me too. He is not defending Karen, he is attacking the fact that this town seems to be voting Karen because she is a bad player. AGAIN, we can not afford to lose townies (even if they are bad). We are taking on two scum groups, that both get night kills. Not to mention that they can not kill each other. OUR LYNCHES NEED TO BE ON SCUM NOT BAD TOWN PLAYERS. I have a feeling that at least one of the scum groups might take Karen out tonight.

Zoneface, you say that not all of the reasons people are voting for Karen is because she is a bad town player…ok, provide a reason people are voting for her because she appears scum.

and I'd just like to state one more time that lynching a BAD PLAYING townie day one, is better than lynching someone who bandwagons that BAD PLAYING townie because they are a BAD PLAYING townie. our best move right now is to get rid of karen because shes likely scum and even if she isn't she's not doing anything to help the town and likely won't be able to help us in the future.

You have got to be f-ing kidding me, you have just taken the cake for the scummiest post thus far. You just told us that lynching a townies is better than lynching someone who bandwagons. Note he doesnt even say lynching a bad townie that could be scum..he just wants to lynch a bad townie. Also note he does not provide the alignment of the "bandwagoner". this guy is scum...

Unvote davidangelsummers

(who by the way I still think is scum)

Vote zoneface

(who I also think is scum)

I broadly agree with zoneace's reasoning. Luckily my vote already reflects this.

you agree that lynching a townie is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning? Note that he never states that the alignment of the bandwagoner…

[ZONEACE]

Note he doesnt even say lynching a bad townie that could be scum..he just wants to lynch a bad townie.

Um actually, what i said was that most first day lynches end up being townies in games that start in day. So if Karen ends up being a townie (which is possible, hell, at this point, the odds say she is), which I don't think she is, that its not a big loss because she's not a great player, and its better to lynch a bad townie than the people bandwagoning a bad townie.

It is in the towns BEST INTEREST at this point to get rid of karen. There are a number of us that believe she is scum. Thats our reason for voting for her. Bad townies while towniers ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE TOWN, esepcially as the game progresses. If she is town, the mafia/wolves are uynlikely to target her because SHES A BAD PLAYER and thusly as the number of townspeople shrink (as they are inevitably going to do since 2 people, maybe more if theres a SK and/or Vig are likely to die each night unless we are fortunate enough to have one groupe traget the other or better yet them both target each other) the likelihood of a bad townie making a fatal mistake for the town increases, so its best to get rid of a bad townie now before they can do too much damage.

But as i said, that argument only matters if SHE ACTUALLY IS TOWN, which i don't believe her to be.

and since you said i should

FOS KarmaDog

[curiouskarmadog]

What!?….What?

Note he doesnt even say lynching a bad townie that could be scum..he just wants to lynch a bad townie.

Um actually, what i said was that most first day lynches end up being townies in games that start in day. So if Karen ends up being a townie (which is possible, hell, at this point, the odds say she is), which I don't think she is, that its not a big loss because she's not a great player, and its better to lynch a bad townie than the people bandwagoning a bad townie.

It is in the towns BEST INTEREST at this point to get rid of karen. There are a number of us that believe she is scum. Thats our reason for voting for her. Bad townies while towniers ARE NOT GOOD FOR THE TOWN, esepcially as the game progresses. If she is town, the mafia/wolves are uynlikely to target her because SHES A BAD PLAYER and thusly as the number of townspeople shrink (as they are inevitably going to do since 2 people, maybe more if theres a SK and/or Vig are likely to die each night unless we are fortunate enough to have one groupe traget the other or better yet them both target each other) the likelihood of a bad townie making a fatal mistake for the town increases, so its best to get rid of a bad townie now before they can do too much damage.

But as i said, that argument only matters if SHE ACTUALLY IS TOWN, which i don't believe her to be.

and since you said i should

FOS KarmaDog

I don’t see how any pro town person can see this guy and think, hey, now there is a townie.


Zone, a townie is a townie..we need the numbers. what part of "we are taking on two mafia scum group that cant kill each other" do you not understand? EVERY LYNCH NEEDS TO COUNT. We need to lynch possible scum every time. We dont need to lynch a townie (because she is bad)..

You even say the odds are she is town (what odds)? Are you trying to cover yourself when she comes up town so you can say "well at least we got a bad townie out of the way". Your entire post is contridiction. Please let me know, what fatal mistake can a bad townie do later? Lynch a townie? Which is exactly what you want to do right now.

Please someone see this..I feel like I am in some sort of Twilight Zone episode.

[WhoMe?]

You have got to be f-ing kidding me, you have just taken the cake for the scummiest post thus far. You just told us that lynching a townies is better than lynching someone who bandwagons. Note he doesnt even say lynching a bad townie that could be scum..he just wants to lynch a bad townie. Also note he does not provide the alignment of the "bandwagoner". this guy is scum...

I broadly agree with zoneace's reasoning. Luckily my vote already reflects this.

you agree that lynching a townie is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning? Note that he never states that the alignment of the bandwagoner…

Firstly, you seem to have excluded all possibility that Karen is scum

secondly, you are going to have to explain to me why someone who bandwagons is a better play than someone who is randomly aggressive for really craplogic.

[WhoMe?]

I think I could have been clearer there

you agree that lynching a townie is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning? Note that he never states that the alignment of the bandwagoner

no what he said, and I agreed with is that lynching

Karen

is better than lynching someone who is bandwagoning. You seem to have swapped out karen and replaced it with townie. This is not the point. Karen is either scum or a bad townie, there is no reason to suppose her to be 100% town.

[ZONEACE]

in response to KarmaDog

ok I'm gonna make this as simple as possible since clearly its not making sense.

Games that start in day likely end day one with a town lynching because there is very little SOLID INFO (ie info gained from night actions) and because there are more townies than scum. This is a simple fact you learn from playing in lots of mafia games (and i've played in 34 so I have that experience).

So, what I'm saying is that why don't we lynch the person that a good number of people (2/3s required for a lynching) think is scum because if they end up being scum then hey go us, and if they don't end up beingscum, then hey they're a bad townie, go us.

I think that scenario is win/win for the town on day one.

If we're likely to lose a townie, why don't we at least make sure that the possible townie is one that is not gonna be helpful to the town (ie KAREN)

[curiouskarmadog]

I do not know Karen’s alignment. I don’t like her play, and if I was to make a scum list she would be in the top 5-6. What I think is scummier than Karen’s play is the fact people are jumping on this bandwagon without provide content, just because she is a bad player, or without reason. Out of everyone on her wagon, the only vote I can understand is yours.

Zone said this.

and I'd just like to state one more time that lynching a BAD PLAYING townie day one, is better than lynching someone who bandwagons that BAD PLAYING townie because they are a BAD PLAYING townie. .

He states the voting a bad playing TOWNIE, is better than lynching someone who bandwagons.

Ask yourself this. Who bandwagons typically? Why is it ok to lynch a townie? He does not say someone who could possibly be scum…he says townie. I think zone’s perspective is from a non town point of view. Keep in mind there are two scum groups that want to kill each other. I think zone is pushing this lynch (the way he is) because he thinks that a.) Karen could be on the other scum group and b.) if she does come up town, he can say, “well at least we got rid of a bad townie”. I do not think anyone who is town and understands this game would want to lynch a townie.

[ZONEACE]

Ask yourself this. Who bandwagons typically?

Umm, day one, EVERYONE. thats the way day one goes. its all bandwagons cause we have nothing else to go on.

He does not say someone who could possibly be scum…he says townie.

You just aren't reading my posts are you? I've said in just about everyone one of them that I think Karen is scum. My talk about her being a townie is in the context that this is the first day, and we have no real facts to go on and numerical odds say she's likely a townie.

I think zone’s perspective is from a non town point of view.

And I think you're playing from the prospective of someone without much experience playing mafia.

I do not think anyone who is town and understands this game would want to lynch a townie.

It's not about wanting to lynch a townie, its about wanting to do whats best for the town as a whole, and right now that's lynching Karen.


anyway, I'm done arguing about this with you, cause you clearly aren't gonna understand. So i'm gonna just wait for some other players to show up and do what's best.

[davidangelsummers]

I say we ask Karen to be replaced . If Karen says No then she cant be good for town.Cuz shes wants to commit harry carry.Im sure even "I got your back Karen no matter what you do" KarmaDog can argue with that.

[curiouskarmadog]

I understand why you think i have Karen's back. I am not defending her craziness, I am attacking the weak reasoned bandwagon. Also, I agree, I would like to see Karen replaced....but given her attitude and cockiness, I doubt that she will want to, just out of spite.

[Twomz]

There may be a few people who took advantage of the fact that Karen was acting strange and bandwagonned her, but the majority of the people voting for her are doing so because they think she is scum.

I am still voting for her because after 8 or so pages she has yet to make one post that makes me think "Wait a sec, there is a chance that she is town and may be a useful player in the game." All of her posts so far have said to me "I do not really care and I am just going to call people names until they unvote me, and now that dybeck and a few others are defending me, I am no longer need to post."

Confirm Vote: Karen

FoS: dybeck, green day

dybeck for reasons mentioned, green day for this post...

Unvote I think I'm passed voting for WhoMe? at the moment. I have a small FOS on Karen, for reasons stated above by Zoneface. Sorry I haven't been talking much, I don't have enough time to do a detailed inquiry at the moment.

Because as much as I would like for more people to vote for Karen... this just looks like a set up for an accidental hammer or something. Also the fact that he is "small FOS"ing based on someone elses logic.


UA is not posting much in the other game as well, he must be busy or something, I suppose he was prodded with the others.

[Sonicpulsar]

I understand why you think i have Karen's back. I am not defending her craziness, I am attacking the weak reasoned bandwagon. Also, I agree, I would like to see Karen replaced....but given her attitude and cockiness, I doubt that she will want to, just out of spite.

I agree with Zoneace's assessment. You're clearly not really reading his posts or anyone else's that's says the same thing (my posts specifically). I think I can safely say we all think there's a good chance Karen is scum. Couple this with the fact that she's crappy town and you have an obvious choice to lynch. Few of us have claimed that "we're sure Karen is scum". We're not effin sure. But she's acted like scum and even if she's not, she's not gonna do the town much good. We (I) can't say it any clearer than that.

I'll go ahead and say it right now, KarmaDog's stock is worth about as much as Dybeck's for me now.

FOS CuriousKarmaDog

Karma, your illogical (yep, I said it) arguments continue to astound me when you say you think one of the mafia groups will NK Karen. They have absolutely no reason to. I sincerely hope the mafia guys are dumb enough to read this and it change their minds if they were going to lynch Karen because it means we'll probably have an easier game (because they're dumb). There's absolutely no reason for the mafia groups to NK a crappy townie.

From my experience (somewhat limited), mafia will tend to target the strong townie or who they think are the power roles. This early in the game, the best anyone can guess when it comes to power roles is MY assertion that power roles tend to lurk (as well as scum). Since the scum know each other (but in this game it's fun because they don't know the other group), they know when one of their own is lurking versus a possible power role lurking.

But this is all fairly moot because there's two groups. Obviously, each group can only kill the other via lynches. So, we'll have to look closely at any cross voting later in the game as each side gains more knowledge on the other side.

For now, I think Karen is our best lynch.

[curiouskarmadog]

Karma, your illogical (yep, I said it) arguments continue to astound me when you say you think one of the mafia groups will NK Karen. They have absolutely no reason to. I sincerely hope the mafia guys are dumb enough to read this and it change their minds if they were going to lynch Karen because it means we'll probably have an easier game (because they're dumb). There's absolutely no reason for the mafia groups to NK a crappy townie..

well I think that my arguements are well noted at this point, I feel like she wants to be lynched as a FU to the town. I also think she is a power role. What happens if she is replaced? Still going to pursue the lynch?

Since the scum know each other (but in this game it's fun because they don't know the other group), they know when one of their own is lurking versus a possible power role lurking.

Interesting phrasing here, how do you know the scum is having fun in this game?

[Karen]

unvote: WhoMe?

vote: Karen.

go scum!!!