Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[Battle Mage]

What a crappy start. Lucky scum bastards ...

Vote: Battle Mage

because he's the only one here whose name I remember seeing in the games I've read.

damn, thats not a good way to get this game started.
ooi-what games of mine did u read? Its just i dont remember playing a game with you.
If you have read any of my older games, you will not be surprised to see me

Vote: Gorgon

yeh, i'm an OMGUSsy newb at times. Get used to it.

Actually, i just noticed, we only have a few days (this IS Speed Mafia) so lets get some activity here quick.

BM

[Battle Mage]

aww shucks. yes you can have my autograph, but only if you stop trying to murder me. lol

Seriously though, i'd be intrigued to hear your comments on my performance in games which you have read, and i feature in. Ya know, just to check you aren't sucking upto me without doing your homework first.

BM

@BM - I've seen you in lots of games ... I've gone through a bunch of games and remember having seen your name pop up regularily. It's a name that stands out too ... it's memorable.

I myself am pretty new, so this is the first time I'm in a game with any of the rest of you guys. Though of course, now I will probably check all of you guys out a little to get a feel for your style - as much as I have time for ... this is a Speed game after all.

No sweat about the OMGUS BM - you gotta vote someone, right?

Yeah, I tend to be verbose. That's something I guess you'll have to get used to.

[Battle Mage]

has anyone here ever played with 'Confused' before?

[Battle Mage]

dont worry, Jdodge always thinks i'm scum. I'm still waiting for him to actually get it right (while he is still alive)

my reason for asking about Confused, was simply that in a game like this, he seems a peculiar N0 kill, unless there was perhaps a grudge involved, or somebody had played with him before, and knew him to be a potent player.

BM

@BM - Well, the Jester game (Open 25) was a good and memorable one all around; I like the idea of the jester and would probably to like to play a Jester game at some point. With regards to your performance in that game, I think you did quite well - I didn't look at who was who before reading through (wanted to guess for myself) and it surprised me quite a bit that you turned out to be Mafia, given the seeming helpfulness of your comments, and the bussing. I was dead sure YogurtBandit was the remaining scum in the endgame ... so I felt pretty ashamed when JDodge came out afterwards and said you were obvious scum.

Learning through experience is probably the best way to get better at the guessing game, though.

Want me to comment on more games? I'd be happy too, but I'm afraid maybe it would be way too distracting for the game now in progress ...

[Battle Mage]

yes it was. and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.
ah well, not complaining. lol

BM

=Confused= is actually a she - I checked the profile.

And yeah, it's a slightly strange choice given that she's a pretty new player. That is why you say she's a strange choice, right, BM?

Anyway, you can always WIFOM choices like this to death, I guess. A possible reason for not picking an experienced player for an NK is to cast doubt on the experienced playes ... if they didn't get killed, they have to be scum, right?

@distad - Why the sudden vote change?

Anyway, a lot of players still haven't checked in yet. I think I'd like to wait for all of them to show up before letting the discussion drag on. I think a common mistake that the town does is to start out with only a part of the players actively discussing, picking at each other, while scum lurk under the radar.

[Battle Mage]

yes it was. and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.
ah well, not complaining. lol

BM

Arrogance, and on page 1 no less. Wow.

I'll wait for more players to check in before I say too much else. Someone will inevitably come out annoying or stupid and we can go from there.

lol its hardly arrogance. From what i gather, the vast majority of the players here are fairly new to the site. I know from when i was new, i generally had a tendency to get rid of the most experienced players at night, simply because they might be more of a threat during the day.
Having said that, i'd hope a half decent Doc would realise this, and probably protect the more experienced players.

Unvote, Vote: HeH

He's not giving me the best vibe atm, primarily his Post 20.

[Battle Mage]

thats a nice idea, but unfortunately its WIFOM. Besides, the Doc is DEAD. In my opinion it is fairly unlikely that we have another protection role, and whilst it is possible, i certainly wouldnt go as far as to request protection. lol

You are sort of right though, in that, if i survive to say, Day 3, you probably should be suspicious. As a rule, i survive alot longer as scum than as town, because for some reason, people just fail at reading me. Generally, if i look really scummy, i am town, and if my play is pretty clean, i'm probably scum.

With reference to my vote on HeH, i meant the last paragraph of post 20. lol

BM

Having said that, i'd hope a half decent Doc would realise this, and probably protect the more experienced players.

Not sure how this sits with me. You're pretty much asking the Doc (if there's one left; or a Nurse ... how reasonable is it to assume that's likely btw?) to protect you here. If you're scum, this would be great for explaining why you'll still be alive tomorrow (and don't get lynched, of course): "Hey, the Doc/Nurse must have taken my hint and protected me!"

Unvote, Vote: HeH

He's not giving me the best vibe atm, primarily his Post 20.

I agree he was stretching it with the d3sisted / =Confused= connection, but he was following a train of thought started by you yourself ...

[Battle Mage]

With reference to my vote on HeH, i meant the last paragraph of post 20. lol

For reference, here is the paragraph being refered to:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

I assume your vote on me is just OMGUS, but if you really think my post is scummy I'd love to hear why.

Its pretty obvious really. The number of people who came out and said 'ooh BM is still alive, he must be scum', is quite alarming. It suggests that last night, at least one mafioso mentioned killing me as a possibility. I'm going to take a guess that the reason i wasnt killed was because some bright spark said that i would probably have NK protection, and so the mafia took a shot at a random player instead.
However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy. I am sure that it is only Mafia who would take such a stance. Guess what-i don't control who gets NKed. The reason i am still alive, could well be that the mafia think they can lynch me, and in my mind, you could be a member of that mafia.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i think we have both overstated each other. I am voting for you, but that isnt necessarily a sign that i want you lynched today. Its simply that, atm, you are my top suspect. fyi, i didnt consider your comment to be an outright attempt to get me lynched-it was far more subtle. What i did consider it, is a subtle attempt to cast some doubt upon me.

However, on the up side, i am very impressed with what you seem to found with regard to Desisted. If you could post a link to where he complimented Confused, that'd be great.

in the meantime,

FoS: Desisted

also, townie points go to YYC Guy for managing to say what i am thinking, much more clearer than i managed. lol

BM

However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy.

Wow, you've totally overstated what I said, BM. Here is my exact quote:

I thought Battle Mage might be the target tonight, since he appears to be the most experiened player here. The fact that he survived night 0 makes me a little suspicious.

A "little suspicious" is a far cry trying to kill you. I didn't vote for you -- I didn't even FoS you -- let alone call for your lynching. I just stated it was a little suspicious that you weren't NKed on N0, something you agree with.

and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.

So, you thought you would be the target. I agreed and said that your survival was "a little suspicious". You then took "a little suspicious" and turned it into me calling for you to be lynched. Then you said that "only Mafia would take such a stance." Basically, you put words into my mouth and then used those words to accuse me of being scum. At best that seems like an OMGUSsy overreaction -- at worst it could mean you're scum trying to set me up by misrepresenting what I actually said. I don't know which it is, but IGMEOY.

[Battle Mage]

Oh good lord...

Analyzing night moves is always WIFOMish. I learned that one in my very first game on here.

I am CERTAINLY not reading a different game for this.

Unvote, Vote: BM

for encouraging this completely fruitless pursuit.

thats your choice Distad. I agree that, everyone is told at some point that commenting on NK's is WIFOM. In most cases, that is true. I mean, imo, its WIFOM to say that because i'm not dead, i am definitely scum, but that is significantly down to the fact that so many people brought it up, and it is so obvious. I was the first person to mention that there might be some significance behind the kill of Confused, over other new players. In my mind, it probably wasnt a gambit by the scum to cast suspicion on Desisted, mainly because, if it was, one of the mafia members would have mentioned it. Of course, this logic is only viable for me in particular, and i can see why you have your doubts, but you must realise, that from my point of view, and HeH's, what we have found MIGHT be significant.

Of course, the general feel of defense for Desisted could be another scumtell. However, i feel comfortable enough with an

Unvote, Vote: VampaneseHunter

This is a shortish game, and we need you to contribute. Having no opinion at this point is totally inexcusable. Its lurking in plain sight.

oh also,

IGMEOY: D3sisted

[Battle Mage]

hmm, i dont think HeH is the play today. Any scumtell he committed, was on me, and frankly, i think there are better targets. Namely, VampanezeHunter, who needs some good old pressure votes to make him post.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Pressure votes aside, he just needs to contribute, period.

But, you can't seriously think that HeH's continued discussion of a very weak topic to be clean, do you?

Hmm... interesting...

interesting? what do you mean?
I suppose what you are inferring is that, the act in question is unreasonable, and thus scummy. However i consider scaremongering to be a scumtell in itself, and you are looking to be guilty of that.

FoS: Distad

On the other hand, i agree with you about VH. to some extent the fact that SPAG will replace him at night, indicates vanilla, because usually, a role like scum, is required to be most active at night. so

Unvote

oh and another thing, I'm seeing the word 'scummy' being bandied about alot here. When i see the word scummy, i expect to find some evidence for someone being scum, not a meaningless comment about something barely game related.
just for my personal piece of mind. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

hmm...ok UnFoS.

[Battle Mage]

fyi, i dont think switching votes alot in this sort of game, is scummy. I mean, the best play for town in such a setup is probably alot of quick pressure wagons in order to try and trap scum. The Mafia realise that with a game like this, the town will likely need to run someone up quickly, and they obviously will panic if they accumulate a vote or two. Distads vote switching is probably an example to be followed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i'm not sure how necessary a deadline extension is here, but seeing as we aren't near deciding a lynch, and have 2 people to hear from yet, it is probably wise to take those 2 extra days.

Vote: Deadline Extend

[Battle Mage]

hmm... i can't say that i think your reasoning is absolutely reliable. In my personal experience, it can often be scum who go inactive, and replace out of games, simply because there is too much pressure on them to make good content. On the other hand, i do agree with you that, in this case, neither individual has suffered a great deal of pressure, and this is probably, if anything, a minor town tell.
Speaking of town tells, i find the following to be the absolute height of trustworthiness:

As an aside, SPAG... you might be the only Brit I've ever known to call it 'soccer'. For shame...

I called it soccer so some of you won't confuse it with that silly game that you american's play

BM

[Battle Mage]

thats ok. its acceptable for people to use their own experiences to validate their suspicions. What isnt acceptable is someone using someone elses experiences as evidence for votes, because often the experience varies from person to person.

ooc-you went to Germany 06? What games did you see?

[Battle Mage]

I tend to meta-game as well, based on people who need replaced, etc. It's my opinion that people tend to do the following:

Scum/Power Roles: More inclined to lurk. They don't want to put themselves out there too much for fear of screwing up or saying something stupid. Thus, when given a situation where they don't feel like they can contribute much to the game (the last few posts), they'll tend to lurk rather than post. There's always the classic Lurking in Plain Sight as well. But I tend to find those players just annoying.

Vanilla: More likely to need a replacement. For whatever reason, people don't like to play vanilla. I find it the most entertaining (read: challenging) simply because you don't have any gadgets at your disposal. They're also more likely to be the "strong townies" simply because they tend to feel they have less to lose for the town if they screw up.

Now, I absolutely realize everyone and their sister can think up 50 people who these don't fit, no matter the circumstances, but I'm talking about generalities and tendencies.

/soapbox

At this point, I don't think we can read much into the two guys who might get replaced. There just hasn't been enough to go on.

:good posting:

I dont necessarily agree with a couple of your generalisations, but its very interesting to hear others points of view, however little relevance this discussion actually poses to the game. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

gd luck finding replacements for those.

[Battle Mage]

we can't really have a deadline without 2 people here. SPAG, could you please like, postpone the deadline until replacements are found, then give us 48 hours from that point?
BM

[Battle Mage]

someone ought to pm Theo. I reckon he'd be up for Back-Up Modding his buddies game in his absence.

[Battle Mage]

YAY THEO.
consider yourself officially Acting-Mod by democratic decision. :p

[Battle Mage]

From what I've gathered, SPAG does this often. As in, no one is surprised. Why the hell was he allowed to mod a game then? His last post was August 31, a full WEEK ago. Seems very unacceptable, especially considering he gave no warning.

Mind you, every time I say something like in IRL, turns out the person was in a car accident or something similar. So let me just say I hope everything's alright with him.

yeh, he has disappeared like this before. We used to play mafia games on a website hosted by SPAG, and he basically went awoll, and the site crashed, and we didnt hear anything for months. lol

[Battle Mage]

lol YA RLY.

[Battle Mage]

if anyone can do it, Theo can. He's not the sorta fella who would let a game die unnecessarily.

<3 Theo

[Battle Mage]

lol the first half of your post makes no sense to me. The second half of your post, i understand, so i will respond.

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).
Again, its a great way to get info from people. I personally feel that i learn a fair bit from that discussion. Perhaps if you reread those '3 pages of BS' with an open-mind, you will agree with me.

BM

Sigh... I should really start making Raffles' laws

1. When given the opportunity, people will always assume the most far-fetched than the obvious.

Are there any rules in this game regarding with "execute" command? No. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to allow for "daykill" as an answer but then if I wanted to daykill battlemage, then I'd obviously type

daykill

: Theopor_COD (sorry I meant SPAG, he's probably more evil)

What happening here is a little joke I'm playing with Battle Mage from the game Consulmaker. I would have waited for Battle Mage to respond but since we are pressed for time and evil d3sisted practically killed it anyway...



Now while speaking of Battle Mage and Raffles' 1st Law, I might as well level some accusation to get the party started. (Honestly guys, where are the beers??) Battle Mage, I thought you'd be more experienced than to throw the town around thick metagaming concerning now deceased =confused=. You and I both well know that N0 kill means jackshit, and most likely done at random to prevent exactly the metagaming of sort like this one. Incidentally, I'd like you to give me back my time for reading 3 pages worth of total bollocks while you lead the town on this matter. It looked to me like a scum-mage leading newbie town around on wild goose chase than any traces of scum hunting.

Vote: Battle Mage

[Battle Mage]

its all INFORMATION. I've been doing my bit to get the information. Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum. Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

I dont understand your second paragraph either, as it doesnt seem to make any sense with relation to my post. Could you please try and be a bit more understandable with your posting?

BM

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).
Again, its a great way to get info from people. I personally feel that i learn a fair bit from that discussion. Perhaps if you reread those '3 pages of BS' with an open-mind, you will agree with me.

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

[Battle Mage]

its all INFORMATION. I've been doing my bit to get the information. Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum. Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

I dont understand your second paragraph either, as it doesnt seem to make any sense with relation to my post. Could you please try and be a bit more understandable with your posting?

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

Hey, I ate some pasta for dinner. That's still an information, the action is closely aligned to mafia, does this make me mafia? If you think so, lynch me.

Thing is, you don't have anything that you can serve to me on a dish as a useful information. Sure, I like the smell of roast chicken, but I'd rather you serve me the real chicken. The juicy stuff.

The second paragraph you are on about, is regards to this:

(except YOU it seems).

Go figure.

[/quote]

I hope your paragraph about food was an analogy. If not, you're starting to creep me out. lol

oh and that second paragraph doesnt make sense, because i dont think you really understood what i was meaning. Or at least, your response makes no sense in relation to what i originally said.

Oh and don't think the subtle move of suspicion towards me, has escaped my attention.

[Battle Mage]

actually Atticus makes a good point.

Unvote, Vote: HeH

[Battle Mage]

unvote desisted

vote BattleMage

I'm not sure how I feel about HeH but I really don't like how BM involves himself in every theory and spins it into something else. For example on page 4 different people expressed the theory that usually those who bail on games are vanilla town and get bored.

hmm... i can't say that i think your reasoning is absolutely reliable. In my personal experience, it can often be scum who go inactive, and replace out of games, simply because there is too much pressure on them to make good content

There are numerous examples like this.

This isn't exactly consistent with a comment you made in another game about me. In any case, you are way off the mark atm.

[Battle Mage]

its so nice to be famous. I loved that last post by Chronx btw.

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

I'm now torn between pouncing on Gorgon for his post 230, and following ChronX onto a CKD wagon.
How long do we have till deadline?

[Battle Mage]

Unvote

Where the heck is BM?

Good effing question. BM got himself replaced in another game that I'm in with him, so I don't know what's up with him these days.

@Atticus - Do you mean to say that you'll stick with voting HeH? Because, you know, it doesn't seem you're actually voting for anyone ...

a few things to say:

1. I didnt 'get myself replaced' in Jordan's game. I quit because i wanted to dedicate more time to the games i can keep up with.

2. It cant have been more than a few days since i last posted. This game is active, and i am following, but sometimes i dont get the chance to reply to everything.

3. The only thing that has been directed at me in particular recently from what i can see, is the accusation from Gorgon that i am 'following Chronx blindly', by voting for the same person. I need to reread, but Chronx gives me protown vibes, and his vote made sense to me. We need a lynch soon, and BWing seemed like a good idea at the time.
However i need to read the last few pages, as there has been some heavy posting lately. lol

A vote Count would be loverly.

[Battle Mage]

If i recall, i noticed something earlier that struck me as very odd, about CKD's play. It might not even be this game, but i need to go back and check. I'll also go and find out what was wrong with your SP vote.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Okay, I'm ready to vote again. If the next bandwagon is going to be an anti-lurker wagon, it makes sense to add to the vote that's already out there.

Vote: Sonicpulsar

ah yes. I remember now. This post just sounds like you are giving a fairly meaningless excuse for a BW vote, in order to avoid suspicion. Its a little scummy, but not really enough to go with at this stage of the day.

BM

[Battle Mage]

2. It cant have been more than a few days since i last posted. This game is active, and i am following, but sometimes i dont get the chance to reply to everything.

3. The only thing that has been directed at me in particular recently from what i can see, is the accusation from Gorgon that i am 'following Chronx blindly', by voting for the same person. I need to reread, but Chronx gives me protown vibes, and his vote made sense to me. We need a lynch soon, and BWing seemed like a good idea at the time.
However i need to read the last few pages, as there has been some heavy posting lately. lol

Wouldn't these two contradict each other? If you have been following, why do you need to go back and read? Only possible explanation is you are lying about the first, and I'm not talking about "I am following" part.

lol don't be silly. I have been following the thread, hence i know what has and hasnt been directed at me. However, i have not had the chance to fully delve into every individual post, for which i need to reread.

I think i'll try and provide some sort of LoS before the day is out, in order to compensate for my absence.

[Battle Mage]

Ok, i've read D3sisted's play, and frankly, i don't think he is the best play today. There is no denying that he has lurked his way through the day, and that he hasn't really put his obvious intelligence to good use. On the other hand, his posts, when made, have been completely reasonable i feel.
The only scumtell i can associate with him is the whole 'Confused' link. But thats not enough to go on today.

Verdict: Neutral

[Battle Mage]

Mr Pigg. Last to confirm, with HH, though it is interesting that the latter was replaced as a priority over Pigg, which could be a town-tell (because scum need activity at night). He accumulates a few early votes, which seem a bit eager. When he finally shows up, he seems keen to type the standard, meaningless content, which is often provided by scum in order to ‘lurk in plain sight’.
His most recent post is a stupid comment about the quality of the posts so far. Of course, it could be a genuine opinion, so its not a tell, but I still feel it was a rather ‘back-handed’ comment. I wouldnt mind if he was lynched today, because although he hasnt been especially scummy, his content wouldnt be missed, and i dislike letting lurkers live too long.

Verdict: Slightly Scummy

[Battle Mage]

Actually, i do have some ideas of what i am going to find. And yes, i am going to do an analysis of everyone. It just happens that i chose the 2 lurkiest players first.

I agree with what you say about Desisted, but personally, i tend to lynch people over scummy behaviour. I think we are all aware that scum are far more careful with their posts, and are perhaps less likely to look scummy than townies, but really, aside from committing 'Too Townie' fallacy, its our best bet. Really, i dont want to lynch anyone who i dont get at least some scummy vibe from. Imo, its a waste. I'd rather cross someone off the top of my suspect list, than lynch someone who i never really considered as a valuable play.

BM

I expect BM is going to do an analysis on everyone - perhaps he has some ace up his sleeve.

Anyway, d3sisted is a more logical choice than MR.PiGG in my eyes, sucky as I find MR.PiGG. At this point he's more likely to be replaced than not, IMO. I think it's very dangerous to go after someone who's in that position on the basis that his content so far is of little use, and therefore he is dispensible.

Also, BM, to be honest, I think you're concentrating too much on scumtells. If d3sisted is scum, why would something necessarily stick out as uberscummy in what little he has posted? I may be a newbie with only one completed game behind my belt, but to my mind I think it might be useful to consider people's motives as well. For instance, as town, what motivation could d3sisted have for acting the way he did? What motive does he have as scum? I myself am finding it hard to find a motive for him doing what he did as town, but then again, as I've said, I am inexperienced. Truth to tell, d3sisted's play in this game baffles me. He certainly has not been very helpful to the town so far. While this may not mean he's automatically scum, I think it is something to consider.

I know you've been looking for ways to improve your play, so that was my two cents. Of course, if you're scum, it's a moot point in this game anyway, but I think it could be useful in general.

[Battle Mage]

AntiPathy/CuriousKarmaDog. Antipathy only makes 1 post-which is a random vote on Surveysays. His comment on the doctor rang some alarm bells with me, but not a lot to go on here.
CKD on the other hand, has been posting prolifically since his arrival. He also makes a comment on the Doc, but other than that, his first posts are fairly sound. His analysis of some aspects of the game are also fair. He does try to compliment me. A null-tell normally, but the last time somebody came in and buddied up to me, they were scum, and screwed me over royally (See Shanba’s Mini). The first post of his that really rings alarm bells, is his 7th, in which he starts by claiming desperation to pounce on anything. I cant fault his honesty, but this could be an indication of scum-as it is primarily scum who have to work on bogus cases in order to get mislynches. He doesn’t want to join a BW on me or HeH, which could suggest distancing (from a mislynch). He OMGUS FoSes Chronx. I like his post 19 however.

Nothing really concrete saying CKD is scum, but he gives me bad vibes. Definitely someone to keep an eye on, but probably not the best play for today, unless we want an information-lynch, in which case, killing CKD could be fruitful.

Verdict: Instinct says Scummy. Brain says Neutral.

[Battle Mage]

The play here is to not lynch Mr. PiGG or CKD. If what they say is true, mafia hasn't got a choice but to kill one of them off, as they are powerful town roles.

CKD, PiGG are you confirmed or unconfirmed?

^Important Post Alert.
This needs to be clarified before we do anything. I'll try and finish some more of those player analyses tonight, if possible.

BM

[Battle Mage]

SurveySays/Chronx. SurveySays never posted atall, which is probably a null-tell. Its actually surprising that he was allowed to stay so long before being replaced. The first thing to say about Chronx is that his play reeks of ‘paranoid townie’. He jumps at shadows, and often votes without thinking things through. In other words, he has the makings of a great player. Lol
He makes a case on me, then looks at it, and changes his mind. This is a town-tell.
Overall, I find some of his logic dubious, but in his favour, he is dropping town-tells all over the place, and I find it very hard to see him as scum atm. I disagree with him about Pigg and CKD, but I cant say his opinion is scummy-just plain unlikely.

Verdict: Very likely Protown

I can't concieve there being a worse play than ChronX today. I'd rather we looked more closely at the people who are hiding in the shadows a bit. I have a feeling alot of the discussion here is townie attacking townie.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Have you already typed the post where, if I were to unvote, you attack me for caving to the pressure?

You are circling around WIFOMishly here, CKD. If I am right and your claim is false, you do deserve credit for solid play. You make a ridiculously scummy post like the one speculating about night kills or leaving you alive, which is an open invitation for SOMEone to jump on it because it is scummy. You can then claim it was a trap for the alleged REAL scum to fall into.

dude, calm down. If CKD is scum, this game is virtually in the bag. We will know alot more tomorrow. Hell, even if we give those 2 the benefit of the doubt tomorrow, we can still probably win the game, regardless of their affiliation. In a game with probably 3 scum, its unlikely that 2 would come forward so early on.

BM

[Battle Mage]

SurveySays/Chronx. SurveySays never posted atall, which is probably a null-tell. Its actually surprising that he was allowed to stay so long before being replaced. The first thing to say about Chronx is that his play reeks of ‘paranoid townie’. He jumps at shadows, and often votes without thinking things through. In other words, he has the makings of a great player. Lol
He makes a case on me, then looks at it, and changes his mind. This is a town-tell.
Overall, I find some of his logic dubious, but in his favour, he is dropping town-tells all over the place, and I find it very hard to see him as scum atm. I disagree with him about Pigg and CKD, but I cant say his opinion is scummy-just plain unlikely.

Verdict: Very likely Protown

I can't concieve there being a worse play than ChronX today. I'd rather we looked more closely at the people who are hiding in the shadows a bit. I have a feeling alot of the discussion here is townie attacking townie.

BM

so you are saying because he is pushing a horrible idea to lynch an unconfirmed mason Day 1 and has jumped at shadows(dont really buy this), he must be town?

wow

I dont get it...

However, there has got to be more than one scum, so I am willingly to believe that he has a partner that might be quieter or at least fence sitting....BM, who do you feel that could be?

well i havent finished analysing everyone yet, but stay tuned.

[Battle Mage]

Distad. Great activity as always from Distad. I didn’t however, like his post 5. The last sentence sounded like he was trying to cast suspicion on someone indirectly. His next post also seemed a little extreme. It would be interesting to meta-game Distad, to see if his opinion on meta-gaming is consistent elsewhere. However I don’t have time for that now. Suffice to say, I didn’t like his comments on it.
On the other hand, his post 7 was far more typical protown-Distad, as were subsequent posts by him. His post 36 completely mirrors my own opinion. Oh yes, Distad is actually pondering every post. He has done this in 2 games I’ve played with him-both as town, and I’m getting the same vibes here.

Verdict: Probably Protown

If i had to choose between him and Chronx, i'd say that Distad was probably the more suspicious of the two, simply for a couple earlier dubious posts. But, overall, Distad is definitely not the play for today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

It's more than that, though, BM. His PiGG opinion is dubious at absolute best. Taken in context with the paranoid townie bit (as you call it), it makes a little more sense. But I think that lynching either ChronX or PiGG today would be ABSOLUTELY ridiculous, and FAR more egregious than ChronX.

I still think that d3 is the best play. I just want to get an official votecount before I put my vote back on.

The bond market is getting just hammered right now, so I don't have time to look back through the last 4 pages to put together an accurate vote count. If anyone can devote 10-15 minutes for that, it would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks.

I dont understand why the play has to be one of those 3. None of them give me bad vibes, and neither do you. I maintain that we should be looking elsewhere today. However, if it comes down to a choice between Desisted and Chronx, i'll go with Desisted. Not that i really think he is scum, but i think he's a better bet than Chronx.

Also i think your post contained a pretty significant typo.

Gorgon is next on my list of analysis victims.

[Battle Mage]

I'm hyped up on about 8 cups of coffee right now (over the last 2 hours), so I'm a tad jumpy. Where's the typo? The change of format in the text wasn't expected... I added [occ] tags around that part and I guess the system formats it differently.

you said Chronx, where i think you meant CKD. Not that it matters-only a moron would have got confused. lol

[Battle Mage]

HonoraryHitchhiker/Gorgon. Again, no posts from the original player to analyse. Onto Gorgon then. His first post in the game was quite scummy, for reasons already said. Scum often comment on NK’s in a bid to make themselves look more protown. His posts about me possibly come under the category of sucking-up, but to be fair, Gorgon appeared genuine here. He managed to back up his statements which is a good sign.
In his post 3, he again makes a game related inference, but instead of being confident about it, he asks me to back him up. In this post he also comments that the discussion should halt while we wait for inactives to show up.
3 RL hours later, and he has posted again, this time with a BW vote on D3sisted. His post 6, seems a bit concerned, at the possibility of another protection role. Gorgon certainly exhibits some strong confidence issues. His post 8 is a fantastic example. Not only is everything he says followed by an attempt to fish for approval, but he also changes his mind infinite times in each post.
Again, Gorgon makes some protownish posts with regard to the town needing to lynch, which gives me a good vibe about him. On the other hand, I dislike his way of getting everyone else to do the work for him, by pressurising others to post content, and not leading by example.
Post 18 stinks of informed minorityness, and to some extent, shows the same paranoia exhibited by Chronx-only more nervous in its presentation. I’m not exactly sure what to think about it.
Lol, I challenge anyone to read through Gorgons posts, and count the times that he changes his opinion on me. Every post I seem to go from scummy-townish-scummy-townish. Rofl.
I haven’t analysed SonicPulsar atall yet, so post 25 by Gorgon could be interesting later. Post 31 is very bad. I think ive already commented on this.
On the other hand, he does seem confident about his own ability, as in the next post, he challenges me to pressure him. Could be a scumbags jerk-reaction, but more likely, he simply doesn’t think he has done anything wrong (null tell).
In post 33, he legitimately accuses me of following Chronx blindly. I don’t understand the last commented in this post, which appears to be directed at me.
Explanation needed I think.
Rofl. He also thinks that HeH’s post was a power-role breadcrumb. Boy, I hope this guy is scum. Lol
Post 42 is another good example of Gorgon trying to stay in everyone’s good books, and let us all argue the day away. Non-commital is the word I’d use.
Post 46 is interesting, as it’s the second time I’ve seen him use the term ‘BM has an ace up his sleeve’. I think he may be over-estimating me a little here. Lol
Post 53. The most recent post by Gorgon, and another absolute corker. His last post is a classic example of scum being non-commital, trying to look protown, and generally, avoid attention.

Verdict: Probably Scum

I think Gorgon is a great play for today. He has been consistently scummy looking, and i think his lynch will tell us alot.

Vote: Gorgon

[Battle Mage]

lol don't try and lay a guilt trip on me. My comments towards you aren't personal. I'm not saying you are a bad player. I'm just saying that i think you are scum. Regardless of your affiliation, you have posted regularly, which is a good trait. And besides, what right do i have to give criticism on townies who look scummY? I'm probably the biggest culprit of this! lol

With regard to the 'power role breadcrumb', your going to have to direct me to the post you mean. I don't think it really matters now about keeping it hidden from the scum (they are almost certainly going to look for this sort of thing at night. It'd be nice to know what you are talking about.

BM

Well BM, if you get me lynched, I can only say that I hope I'll do better in later games. I guess I could have been more confident in this one, my second game, and the first one with 12 players, although funnily enough you say at one point that I have been confident in my own abilities ...

At least I have been

trying

to analyse things and post regularily, but I'm sorry if it hasn't been useful.

I don’t understand the last commented in this post, which appears to be directed at me.
Explanation needed I think.

I ended that post with:

Happy with that, BM?

... because I found your comment about my post 31 annoying, and was sarcastically asking if you were happier with me voting d3sisted.

Rofl. He also thinks that HeH’s post was a power-role breadcrumb. Boy, I hope this guy is scum. Lol

Either that's a typo, or you read incorrectly. I thought Sonicpulsar's posts, that HeH quoted, were a powerrole breadcrumb. I find it a little insulting that you should believe otherwise.

[Battle Mage]

If i die tonight, the following people should be totally beyond suspicion:
Distad, Chronx, SonicPulsar.

I'll hopefully be back before deadline, and if Gorgon isnt dead by then, i will move my vote to Desisted.

BM

[Battle Mage]

well this is rich, neither one of us was NKed, YOU SCREWED UP MAFIA.

The think that they will be able to push a case against Pigg or I to get the town to do their dirty work. I dont think they will fall for it. I am interested to see who will push the case out of the gate. I am so tempted to vote Chronx, but the fact they took out Raffles (whose last post was a vote on Chronx) and Chornx would most likely come after Pigg and I day 2 seems like a set up. Lets say Chronx is town...I go after Chronx Day 2, Chronx goes after Pigg or I..that will pretty much leave everyone untouched Day 2....think it is a set up, not sure though.

going to reread, it is going to be interesting to see who actively and passively pushing a mason lynch Day 2.

Sure you aren't overplaying this a little CKD? I mean, come on! We aren't stupid-we know what your survival means. You appear to be setting up for an attack on anybody who attacks you, which is scummy. I dont find your survival atall suspicious. I mean, most half-decent scumgroups would want to avoid leaving a confirmed townie, when there was a possibility of lynching 1 and NKing the other. The disadvantage of lynching a mason, is that the other will almost certainly be NKed. Of course, should we have this WIFOM at LyLo, we could be in a difficult position with regard to them. I think it might be wise to leave the whole 'attacking us is scummy' thing for now. By all means take notes, and post them once you are confirmed, but in the meantime, anything you say on that issue is WIFOM to the rest of us, and so doesnt hold much value.

You might be better placed looking at those who AREN'T pushing the mason lynch until this point. Imo, scum are more likely to suck up to protown power roles, than directly oppose them. They will only go for a lynch on them, once they are sure that it is achievable.

BM

[Battle Mage]

how is it an 'odd' development?

In my opinion, perhaps the greatest positive we have got from the night is that the guy who died was acting incredibly scummy before the deadline. In fact, i genuinely cringed when i saw his last post-even moving him upto second scummiest player (behind Gorgon). So, i'm pleased that there is 1 less person high on my target list, as it means that we have a better chance of a good lynch today. I dont really see why Raffles was killed actually-unless the scum wanted to set up the argument that Gorgon is suggesting, or they really considered him a threat.
Gorgon also makes a good point about Raffles position on the Desisted lynch might have something to do with it, which would suggest that the wagon on Desisted was riddled with scum.

I also agree with what Gorgon is saying about the masons. Personally, i dont think we should look at them today. If we have a Cop, i highly reccommend that they come forward, if they can prove that the claimed masons are in fact scum. Otherwise, we should leave them till tomorrow at least. I find it hard to see 2 scumbags claiming masons, unless there was a 3rd member (which is likely anyway). We could be dealing with mafia power-roles here, which i am a little wary of.

I'm very interested to hear the logic behind what HeH is suggesting to be the game setup. As far as i can tell, having that many protown power roles would severely unbalance the game.

I'm a little unsure what to do now. Gorgon remains my top suspect, and yet his play today has seemed genuinely protown. I probably need to read some of the other unconfirmed players as well, but first i'd like to see some sort of player analysis from everyone. I'd especially like to see people's opinions towards:

ChronX
Distad
Gorgon
Battle Mage (me)

thanks in advance,
BM

Yes, this is indeed an odd development.

It's a good thing that both of the guys we lost are vanillas. Yes, I know it's supposedly a scumtell to express sentiments over who gets killed, but I really am glad. Also, one of the positive aspects of townies dying, obviously, is that their past words and actions are confirmed as that of a townie. We still have to judge for ourselves whether they have merit or not, but at least we know they're not lies or deception.

It's annoying that Raffles didn't state his case against ChronX - now we'll never now why he voted him ... but cdk's theory that he was killed to setup ChronX is interesting. We have to be careful here. But maybe ChronX really is scum, and this is what he

wants

us to think ... damn WIFOM. Or he just wanted to take out someone who could go after him forcefully today. Another possible reason for killing Raffles is that he opposed the d3sisted lynch. Since d3sisted was actually town, eliminating anyone who stands out by not having gone with lynching him helps blur the lines between scum and town. As it stands, BM is the only living guy who opposed it, although opposing a popular lynch can also be a tactic to look town; you know the guy's town, so when he really comes up as town, you'll look good the next day.

I find it unlikely that cdk and MR.PiGG aren't actually Masons. If cdk really is scum, he was taking a huge gamble on the fact that there might actually be real Masons out there who could take them down. It's possible of course, but it's more likely IMO that they are Masons, and that the scum are trying to muddy the waters by springing the WIFOM trap ... in a quick game, I can see this as a tactic to distract us from finding the real scum.

If we are in agreement that we probably have two confirmed innocents out of nine players, things are looking pretty good right now.

[Battle Mage]

fair enough. I would merely reccommend that you take everything said by a dead guy with a pinch of salt. Yes, Raffles was almost certainly being honest, but he didnt actually have any knowledge by the look of it. If he was a Cop or something, it would be different, but as it stands, this stinks of a setup to me.

The reason i felt Raffles was so scummy was mainly down to his last post. I didnt have time to comment before the deadline, but when i read it, it absolutely reeked of distancing from a mislynch. As it goes, i was wrong with this suspicion, but i guess being right about Desisted cancels it out right?

I've italiced and underlined a part of your post which i find a little fishy. I cant seem to shake the feeling that you are scum.

BM

how is it an 'odd' development?

Because I really was expecting a claimed mason to end up dead, as per people's suggestion that the scum wouldn't want to risk keeping them both alive, and because I believed the claim. I haven't seen many games with masons, and I've certainly never seen a game where there are two claimed masons on day 1, so I went with the expectations already voiced.

With regards to HeH's explanation, I can see how he could have got carried away with his assumption that the mason claim was real, and thus not minded his phrasing. I was mostly testing his reaction ... and I'm keeping my eye on him, not least because as he was one of the guys Raffles went after yesterday. The same applies to BM, although I'm not sure how much of that was just personal antagonism ... but I do know that he wasn't the only one to call BM scummy for dragging the NK discussion along.

Raffles is an experienced player and a good scumhunter, from what I've seen. Now that we know he's town I think it's likely that he must have been onto something. 100% of what he had to say can't all be crap, IMO. The same applies to d3sisted. At least now I know two people whose words I can trust, even if they're dead.

Btw, why was Raffles scummy in your opinion, BM?

I saw him as very aggressive, which is supposedly town-like

. The most dubious thing was voting ChronX without explanation, but I'm sure that was mostly due to time constraints.

I'm trying to play more aggressively today

, since I got called on my lack of assertiveness at the end of yesterday. We really need to bag a scumbag today or we'll be at Lylo tomorrow, and mucking around isn't helpful. I will review and post some player analyses later today.

[Battle Mage]

fair enough. I would merely reccommend that you take everything said by a dead guy with a pinch of salt. Yes, Raffles was almost certainly being honest, but he didnt actually have any knowledge by the look of it. If he was a Cop or something, it would be different, but as it stands, this stinks of a setup to me.

Yes, I will take the dead guys' words with a grain of salt and look at things from my own perspective, and yes, they didn't have any more knowledge than the rest of us, but it does help to have the words of an experienced confirmed pro-town player at hand. I'm not going to throw it all out - it will be taken into consideration when I analyse the game.

Also, you're certainly not a disinterested party here. Both Raffles and d3sisted were suspicious of

you

for the NK discussion early on, and how you flipflopped over the issue of how important it was.

As it goes, i was wrong with this suspicion, but i guess being right about Desisted cancels it out right?

Perhaps. As you say yourself, opposing the d3sisted lynch could have been scum distancing.

I've italiced and underlined a part of your post which i find a little fishy. I cant seem to shake the feeling that you are scum.

lol yes ... when you put those together like that, it does look fishy. But the reason why I'm trying to play more aggressively is not primarily so I will

look

more townlike - it's so I will actually do the town some good ... although I'm sure you'll agree that looking townlike is certainly a concern for town as well as scum. It's frustrating to play as town, trying the best you can, and then get called scummy at the end of the day. It also draws attention away from the real scumbags. I'm hoping this day will be better.

I'm still trying to find my rhythm here, and getting experienced people's perspective on what benefits the town, what looks scummy, etc. helps me with that. I found it a little odd that you were calling Raffles scummy, when he was doing what I'm led to believe a good townie must do, and what I'm now trying to do ... being agressive. But yeah, his last post before his death was the number one scummy thing he did ... I agree with that. Just wanted to be sure.

I dont think anyone could describe me as 'disinterested' here. I also stand by the comment that you should not use the comments of a dead player as evidence behind suspicion (ESPECIALLY if that player was NKed). With lynched players, it is slightly more acceptable, as there is less likely to be a motive behind their death.

And yes, i entirely agree that my play with regard Desisted could have been distancing. However, if it was, i didnt do especially well. I might have pushed an alternative wagon, but at deadline, i certainly could have made more of a show of not voting for Desisted.

I really dont think you should take my suspicion of you as an insult on your PLAY. Regardless of your affiliation, you have been a helpful player. However, looking scummy is often something that is natural to us. I believe i've said before-i am one of the biggest offenders of this. It sucks to be misunderstood, but thats the way it goes. If you die, and you come up town in this game, all the players here will use that knowledge when they play with you elsewhere. Thats adaptive meta-gaming!

I should also remind you here that aggression is not always protown. In fact, in my experience, when i play aggressively, i often get lynched more. People see aggression, and they think scum. It can also annoy people if you appear jumpy and agitated, and you get lynched. Still, i agree that aggression can be a sign of genuine scumhunting. I'm just saying that it could also be construed as scummy.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Don’t know how I feel about a cop claim quite yet. The cop has had two nights to investigate, that information would be very helpful. But I do not want to lose the cop yet. Hopefully if we get ready to mislynch a townie that he knows is innocent he will come forth, but whether he should come out before then…I don’t know.

I think, if the cop can either prove or disprove the mason-claim, he should come forward. Obviously if he cant, he should stay hidden until he can. Of course, it would mean losing the Cop, but, in killing the Cop, the scum would clear 2 people from our suspect list. I think its worth it.

@Chronx-lol i was kind of thinking along the same lines of your post, but with regard to Gorgon, rather than Sonic.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, i cant say i'm CERTAIN about their affiliation. But i am pretty confident from my analyses that Chronx, Distad and SonicPulsar are town. Or at least, they aren't people i would consider lynching at this point. I probably need to read Atticus, as i couldnt say a single thing about him atm. lol
But I'm still thinking Gorgon is a good play, though i will say more after i have seen everyone's player analyses as i requested.

The way you put it is very insightful however. I dont think the mason claim is bogus atm, so there could be 1 scum within my group of 3. But, overall, i find those 3 to be bottom of the suspect list atm.

Post 431 by Chronx deserves comment, because it raises the possibility of one of the claimed masons being a Godfather (though i had mentioned mafia power roles, i hadnt considered this aspect in detail). As such, it might not be wise for a cop claim now, unless the player in question feels they should (this is all assuming that we have a cop). Until we see what the scum are listed as, we cant really evaluate this more.

HeH-did you think i was protown yesterday, or did you change your mind after seeing the events at the end of day/overnight?

I'd still like an LoS of some sort from everyone. WE have high activity, but some people seem to have missed my request.

Please read back, and DO IT.

BM

I was starting to look at the 7 living, unclaimed players when the following post caught my eye.

If i die tonight, the following people should be totally beyond suspicion:
Distad, Chronx, SonicPulsar.

Battle Mage, can you please call out the posts that make you think they're innocent? "Totally beyond suspicion" is pretty strong -- are you really that sure? I ask this because these three are on the following list:

I think our best bet is to focus on the 7 living, unclaimed players. That's Battle Mage, Hang 'em High, Sonicpulsar, Gorgon, ChronX, Atticus and distad.

If we believe the mason claim, then 3 of those 7 are scum (assuming there are 3 scum, which I think is likely). If the three you name are indeed innocent that only leaves four possibilities -- two of whom are you and me. I know I'm innocent and if we assume for a second you are as well, then the math doesn't work as it only leaves Gorgon and Atticus. Therefore, one of our assumptions is wrong, which means at least one of the following: A) There are only two scum; B) The mason claim is bogus; C) At least one of the three you name are scum; D) You're scum; E) I'm scum.

I don't think A) is likely; a 10:2 town to scum ratio would be too unbalanced. While I tend to think the mason claim is legitimate, B) is certainly a possibility. I don't know how to judge C), which is the reason for my question above. If D) is true, then all this speculation is moot since your list of innocents can't be believed. I know E) is not the case, although obviously you don't.

I'm writing off A) and E) as possibilities, and since I think you're likely town I'm writing off D) as well (for now, at least). That means that I think either the mason claim is a lie or at least one of the three on your list is actually scum. Since I tend to think the mason claim is true, I'm guessing that someone on your list is scum. But if you've got a solid argument for why they're town I'd reassess the likelihood that the mason claim is bogus.

[Battle Mage]

I agree with you and others that BM is subtly pushing to out the cop. Personally, I wonder if we even have a cop if we do indeed have masons, as seems to be true. Doc, Cop, and Masons would be pretty heavy artillery for the town. I would rather we rely on our wits, and if we are lucky enough to have a cop, have him come forward with a sure scum hit, not with clears.

lol did you even read my last posts?

[Battle Mage]

Well, i cant say i'm CERTAIN about their affiliation. But i am pretty confident from my analyses that Chronx, Distad and SonicPulsar are town. Or at least, they aren't people i would consider lynching at this point. I probably need to read Atticus, as i couldnt say a single thing about him atm. lol
But I'm still thinking Gorgon is a good play, though i will say more after i have seen everyone's player analyses as i requested.

The way you put it is very insightful however. I dont think the mason claim is bogus atm, so there could be 1 scum within my group of 3. But, overall, i find those 3 to be bottom of the suspect list atm.

Post 431 by Chronx deserves comment, because it raises the possibility of one of the claimed masons being a Godfather (though i had mentioned mafia power roles, i hadnt considered this aspect in detail). As such, it might not be wise for a cop claim now, unless the player in question feels they should (this is all assuming that we have a cop). Until we see what the scum are listed as, we cant really evaluate this more.

HeH-did you think i was protown yesterday, or did you change your mind after seeing the events at the end of day/overnight?

I'd still like an LoS of some sort from everyone. WE have high activity, but some people seem to have missed my request.

Please read back, and DO IT.

BM

I was starting to look at the 7 living, unclaimed players when the following post caught my eye.

If i die tonight, the following people should be totally beyond suspicion:
Distad, Chronx, SonicPulsar.

Battle Mage, can you please call out the posts that make you think they're innocent? "Totally beyond suspicion" is pretty strong -- are you really that sure? I ask this because these three are on the following list:

I think our best bet is to focus on the 7 living, unclaimed players. That's Battle Mage, Hang 'em High, Sonicpulsar, Gorgon, ChronX, Atticus and distad.

If we believe the mason claim, then 3 of those 7 are scum (assuming there are 3 scum, which I think is likely). If the three you name are indeed innocent that only leaves four possibilities -- two of whom are you and me. I know I'm innocent and if we assume for a second you are as well, then the math doesn't work as it only leaves Gorgon and Atticus. Therefore, one of our assumptions is wrong, which means at least one of the following: A) There are only two scum; B) The mason claim is bogus; C) At least one of the three you name are scum; D) You're scum; E) I'm scum.

I don't think A) is likely; a 10:2 town to scum ratio would be too unbalanced. While I tend to think the mason claim is legitimate, B) is certainly a possibility. I don't know how to judge C), which is the reason for my question above. If D) is true, then all this speculation is moot since your list of innocents can't be believed. I know E) is not the case, although obviously you don't.

I'm writing off A) and E) as possibilities, and since I think you're likely town I'm writing off D) as well (for now, at least). That means that I think either the mason claim is a lie or at least one of the three on your list is actually scum. Since I tend to think the mason claim is true, I'm guessing that someone on your list is scum. But if you've got a solid argument for why they're town I'd reassess the likelihood that the mason claim is bogus.

Chronx-try reading this post please. Then apologise for misrepresenting me.

the same applies to CKD, except more significantly perhaps, as not only have you gone along with the misinformation of Chronx, without reading yourself, you have also followed up with what appears to be a rather opportunistic, and certainly, inherently weak, vote.

Distad, if you listen to anything Stoofer says, you can only progress so far as a Mafia Player (BM's 2nd law).

[Battle Mage]

oh and furthermore CKD, i dont buy the BS that asking a cop to claim is always scummy. we want information, and a cop has 2 nights of it. Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome...

What about this post (which came before)

I also agree with what Gorgon is saying about the masons. Personally, i dont think we should look at them today. If we have a Cop, i highly reccommend that they come forward, if they can prove that the claimed masons are in fact scum. Otherwise, we should leave them till tomorrow at least. I find it hard to see 2 scumbags claiming masons, unless there was a 3rd member (which is likely anyway). We could be dealing with mafia power-roles here, which i am a little wary of.

clearly a cop does not need to present themselves yet..

I think, if the cop can either prove or disprove the mason-claim, he should come forward. Obviously if he cant, he should stay hidden until he can. Of course, it would mean losing the Cop, but, in killing the Cop, the scum would clear 2 people from our suspect list. I think its worth it.

again more pushing…why not have the cop wait, until someone is close to being lynched before he comes out. Misrepresenting you my ass.

and again, why do you keep giving us your protwon list unprovoked?

[Battle Mage]

My thought on this, CKD, is that BM *is* the cop. I think he's throwing out those cop questions to try to get the scum to believe he isn't a power role and to NK elsewhere.

I look forward to your quotes. I might be wrong. Show me the argument and I'll work from there.

lol i'm not the cop. Nice work exploiting the blatant hypocritical role-fishing from CKD. His pushing to lynch me, and to out the cop, are very suspicious. His mason-claim makes him a bad play for today, but he is well worthy of an

FoS: CKD

I mean come on! At best your scumdar is so far off that you are becoming a well-meaning detriment to the town. Do you seriously think i would rolefish so unsubtly as to ASK THE COP TO CLAIM!? ffs, you obviously dont think much of me as scum...
If you have more questions, ask away. I'm getting a protownish vibe from HeH but i think i need to read the last few pages with a clear head. I still think Gorgon is the best play today.

BM

[Battle Mage]

no dude-BACKTRACKING is a scumtell. Changing your mind based on new evidence come to light, is a null tell. In fact, in most cases, i'd consider it a small town tell, as very often, newb scum play the consistency-card, to look like they feel strongly in their suspicions, but in actuality, they are avoiding commenting on new information.
lol saying your mind is made up is not a scumtell. Obviously being close-minded is bad play, but often townies are as guilty of this as scum.

I'm not commenting on the rest as i expect it is mostly valid. All i will ask is:

WHAT WAS THE POINT OF THAT POST? lol
I dont really understand what it was in response to...

BM, don't you know that changing your mind is a scumtell? Tunnelling is a scum tell too...if you say your mind is made up and you won't change it, thats a scum tell. To avoid a scumtell, you have to proclaim yourself openminded but not actually change your mind.

If you lurk and don't contribute, its a scumtell. If you are TOO protown, its a scumtell. If you are too aggressive about trying to get someone lynched, its a scumtell. Now, Atticus tells us that if you don't press hard enough, its a scumtell.

Too many players on this site believe that by badgering someone about every last electronic utterance, they can discover subliminal, unintended clues to the person's orientation.

I DO believe that scum can give themselves away, but not in direct response to "you're lurking" accusations. The flow of votes, who chooses to pressure and when, the meaty versus trivial content of their posts when not under pressure, these are the things that town can and should look for over the course of the game.

[Battle Mage]

ok thats all well and good, but how was that relevant to a particular part of THIS game?

[Battle Mage]

omfg. Do we have a psychiatrist in the house? Anything to sort this guys paranoia...

The answer to both those questions is YES.
Yes i DID think a cop claim might be a good idea. And YES, i was being misrepresented by others. You see, it was AFTER i had commented on the post by Chronx, that people started jumping on me for 'trying to force a cop claim'. That is misrepresentation, because i had already retracted those previous comments about a cop claim being the obvious move.

Is there anything else? Because i honestly dont mind answering questions if it helps reassure you. What i dont like doing, is having to respond to the same flawed arguments over and over again, because 1 player in particular feels that they know better than the rest of the town, and have managed to spot something incredibly important. Then this player presents what can at best be described as circumstantial suspicion, as fact. I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.
Please, if you are town, engage brain before jumping to conclusions.

BM

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome...

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.

Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM

I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!

[Battle Mage]

OMG. I'm obviously arguing with the mayor of WIFOM-city here. A reasonable question to ask you would be, why do you keep having to state that i am unequivocably scum, and you are unequivocably town. I dont 'know' you are a mason. Frankly i think we may have to lynch you at some point, simply to test your claim. If you are becoming a deliberate detriment to the town, it might be better to do this sooner rather than later, if only so we can concentrate tomorrow.
Not only this but i hate the WIFOM of 'dont vote for me or everyone will know you are scum'. Please, just grow up. If you keep talking crazy, people are going to wonder about your alignment. You're right-i'd hate to lynch a mason today, when we could be lynching almost certain scum, but its you, not Pigg/Desisted, who is giving me doubts about the claim.

Ok, at last i can respond to something reasonable. Speaking from my PoV, in this game alone, i dont think a request for a cop claim is completely unreasonable. Were it not for the possibility that we have a GF, i would STILL be pushing for a cop-claim if the cop could confirm the claimed masons either way. However Chronx comments put that into proportion, and currently, i no longer want a cop claim today.
But, other than that, i stand by my original comments. Don't use the whole 'you are experienced and should know better' argument against me, because it just suggests that you know something which we don't. Either you are breadcrumbing cop yourself, or you simply dont want a cop to come forward with a guilty investigation on you.

Hell, maybe i have been part of suspicious things, but thats mainly because i like to be involved in EVERYTHING. Nothing escapes my notice when i am posting prolifically (as i have been at points during this game).
I tackle things head on when i am town. Again, if you metagame me, you will see that clearly.

I dont really understand your last question-hence i havent answered it. If you are asking why i am giving comments on my opinions of players, the answer is that information on peoples opinions is the best method of catching scum. Hell, if you genuinely think i am scum, you should be grateful that i have given you such insight into my opinions.

Perhaps if you were town, you wouldnt just be happy with lynching the player who has been most free in giving information. If you were town, you would look at other possibilities and realise that i am not the best play for today by a long-shot.

BM

omfg. Do we have a psychiatrist in the house? Anything to sort this guys paranoia...

The answer to both those questions is YES.
Yes i DID think a cop claim might be a good idea. And YES, i was being misrepresented by others. You see, it was AFTER i had commented on the post by Chronx, that people started jumping on me for 'trying to force a cop claim'. That is misrepresentation, because i had already retracted those previous comments about a cop claim being the obvious move.

Is there anything else? Because i honestly dont mind answering questions if it helps reassure you. What i dont like doing, is having to respond to the same flawed arguments over and over again, because 1 player in particular feels that they know better than the rest of the town, and have managed to spot something incredibly important. Then this player presents what can at best be described as circumstantial suspicion, as fact. I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.
Please, if you are town, engage brain before jumping to conclusions.

BM

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome...

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.

Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM

I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!

first of all BM, do not threaten me. if you think I am scummy vote for me. But I know you wont. I think you know I am a town, thus know I must be a mason. There is no way in hell that you want your vote anywhere near me if I somehow get lynched and come up Mason...so your keep your idle threats to yourself scum.

next, I didnt misrepresent you. I stated I didnt like the fact you were looking for the cop, because you indeed were, until someone said it was a bad idea. You have been playing a long time BM, you should know that in this case at this point it is a bad idea.

Gorgon, It is BM's play all game, he seems to have his hand in or be part of almost everything scummy or suspicious that has occured in this game. From the set up "does anyone know Confused" until last page "the cop should come out".

AND AGAIN BM for the 3rd time...WHY DO YOU KEEP PROVIDING LISTS OF PEOPLE YOU THINK ARE TOWN OUT OF NO WHERE? No one asked for them, yet you keep telling us who you think is town. Again, why do you keep avoiding this question. I think you are just buddying up...seems to be working.

[Battle Mage]

oh and

Vote: Gorgon

Much as it is nice that you are defending me, it is the sad truth that i dont trust you one bit. I apologise in advance if you are town.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm sure i was waiting on HeH to answer something...
Anyway, he gives me town vibes atm.

[Battle Mage]

Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX

I dont understand what you mean by that vote table. is that all votes cast over the course of the day or what?

[Battle Mage]

Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX

Because I unvoted? That's crazy. You(1) acted very suspicious through most of D1 and then your(2) predecessor had been acting weird/lurking before throwing out a HUGE curveball.

This is just OMGUS.

It's called wishy-washy. You should know this.

@BM: Those are all the votes cast near the end of the day. Basically I was looking at who jumped back and forth between wagons as the focus shifted between me and Mr.Pigg.

That actually.... makes a fair bit of sense.

[Battle Mage]

BM have you undergone a gender operation?

is it appropriate for the moderator to ask game-relevant questions of a player, in the game thread?

And no, i'm still male. I'm only female in Lost Boys Mafia. lol

[Battle Mage]

How is it game relevant here? I was curious. I'll dissapear again.

p.s If you want anyone prodded shout.

lol im kidding dude. Even so, if i was scum and planning some incredibly elaborate scheme, i'd be furious right now.
Anyway, its kinda nice to talk to someone who i KNOW isnt scum.

and could you please prod HeH, as he needs to answer the question i sort of asked in post 518.

thanks dude.

[Battle Mage]

I await an answer to this question:

HeH-did you think i was protown yesterday, or did you change your mind after seeing the events at the end of day/overnight?

[Battle Mage]

interesting.

[Battle Mage]

interesting.

Care to elaborate?

No, not really. I'm currently pretty neutral towards you atm. You arent obvious town, but you arent certain scum either.

BM

[Battle Mage]

i'd be interested to see the top 2 lynches for today from everyone.

[Battle Mage]

I'm looking at Atticus or Gorgon.

How about yours?

ah yes, i have to remember to reread Atticus at some point. Obviously Gorgon is my first pick, but i'm no longer so sure about my second choice.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I'm on Gorgon.

I remain convinced there is ONE scum between HeH and Sonicpulsar, but too close to call which.

I'd say HeH is scummier than SP.

[Battle Mage]

right we have:

Distad- Gorgon, Atticus
Chronx-Gorgon, HeH/SP
Gorgon-HeH, Atticus
Battle Mage- Gorgon, ?

[Battle Mage]

ok:

Distad- Gorgon, Atticus
Chronx-Gorgon, HeH/SP
Gorgon-HeH, Atticus
Battle Mage- Gorgon, ?
CKD-BM, Chronx

[Battle Mage]

ooh, a post dedicated to me. How incredible.
^ probably construed as hyperbole. rofl.

I hadnt actually noticed that i get a little over-excited sometimes. However i stand by every one of those comments which you deemed to be exaggerations.

I agree with you about the OMGUSsy point. Of course, in another game atm, i'm about to be lynched for doing the opposite of OMGUS-attacking people NOT on my wagon. As Chronx said, its all down to interpretation.

On the other hand, your example of alleged inconsistency is wrong. I agreed with your sentiment about my survival being strange, but i still found it rather scummy to suggest it. Obviously i can not really set up a lynch on myself, but i felt your comments might have had a hidden agenda-whilst still matching my own genuine views.
This is definitely not an example of backtracking. :p

I concede the comment about my rant at CKD. It does agitate me when i see someone who is probably town, doing so much to hurt the town. If someone reaches a certain point of detrimentalness, they can be worth lynching anyway, assuming there are no totally obvious alternatives. We pretty much have to lynch CKD or Pigg tomorrow if neither are dead, and my threat was to some extent honest, though of course it was really meant as a warning.

Other than that, i think your analysis here is very strong, and fair. Protown points for giving me a decent hearing, but ofc, that doesnt mean you get a free pass from me.

Will post more later,

BM

Battle Mage

. Let me start off by saying that I entered this analysis with the impression BM was town, although I had been getting some bad vibes from him lately. I tried to put aside any preconceived impressions I had when starting this analysis. Here is what I found.

First, BM is the king of hyperbole. A few examples:

However, on the up side, i am very impressed with what you seem to found with regard to Desisted.

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful.

Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

If i die tonight, the following people should be totally beyond suspicion:
Distad, Chronx, SonicPulsar.

He definitely has a tendency to exaggerate: "very impressed", "VERY userful", "the most informative", "alot of potential", "totally beyond suspicion". At first I didn't like this, since it appears to me he is making more of something than is reasonable. However, I've come to the conclusion that it's just his style and probably doesn't mean anything. He comes across as very confident and this fits into that pattern.

I find his postings to be kind of hard to follow at times -- they come off as very "stream of consciousness" and scattered. Is OMGUSsy at times -- he tends to attack people who attack him. He even admits to it:

yeh, i'm an OMGUSsy newb at times. Get used to it.

I don't think this is scummy, but it might make me put a little less stock in some of his arguments when he is counterattacking someone.

He's not always consistent with his views. For example, when discussing the N0 kill he says:

and i agree with HeH that i was expecting me to be the target.

But then later he votes for me on that basis, saying:

However, you are using the WIFOM argument, that i have not been NKed, as a reason to kill me, which is inherently scummy.

Meanwhile, I did no such thing -- I didn't vote for him or FoS him. I merely said his survival was a little suspicious. I do think he backtracked a little here -- at first he agreed with my take and then he later voted me for the same reason. Even though I don't like this, I'm again thinking it's a playstyle thing. He seems hyperaggressive and OMGUSsy when people raise points against him.

Another example of this was his argument with CKD over BM's call for a cop claim. When CKD attacked him, BM responded very aggressively:

I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.

I read this as a simple threat: "keep pressuring me and I'll vote for you". This is again something I don't like, but it fits into BM's behavior and could just be a play style thing.

Boy this is dragging out. Sorry for making this so long, but I'm really trying to get a read on BM. His play style is difficult for me to figure out and I'm trying to be fair. Try to bear with me -- I know it's tedious. I'm now going to move on to the two most important things (IMO) about BM.

First is his pushing for a cop claim. Here's the post:

I think, if the cop can either prove or disprove the mason-claim, he should come forward. Obviously if he cant, he should stay hidden until he can. Of course, it would mean losing the Cop, but, in killing the Cop, the scum would clear 2 people from our suspect list. I think its worth it.

At first I didn't like this, but on reread I don't think it's a ridiculous point of view. After further discussion, he amended his view in two different posts by stating:

Post 431 by Chronx deserves comment, because it raises the possibility of one of the claimed masons being a Godfather (though i had mentioned mafia power roles, i hadnt considered this aspect in detail). As such, it might not be wise for a cop claim now, unless the player in question feels they should (this is all assuming that we have a cop). Until we see what the scum are listed as, we cant really evaluate this more.

wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?

Makes sense to me. After hearing ChronX's strong argument against the cop claiming, BM changed his mind. I think that's reasonable. While it's possible he is scum who was trying to out the cop, it seems more likely to me that he at first thought a claim would be good if it could clear or indict the masons and that he later changed his mind. Overall, I don't find this chain of events problematic.

The final big thing I want to look at about BM is his case against Gorgon. However, since I haven't reviewed Gorgon yet and this analysis is too damned long already, I'm going to hold off for now. Gorgon is the last person I have to review and I'll do so in a little while. I'll comment on Battle Mage's case in that review.

Conclusion: I find Battle Mage very hard to read. In isolation I find some of his posts to be overly defensive and hyperaggressive, but taken as a whole that seems to be his play style. I don't like that style of play, but that's just personal preference and in the overall context I can't say I find his posts scummy. Going in I thought his cop claim request was yucky, but on further consideration I don't find it really bad. Although I admit he's tough to get a handle on, overall I'm putting him more on the pro-town side. I reserve the right to modify this opinion once I've completed my analysis of Gorgon and BM's case against him.

[Battle Mage]

Oh My F*cking God.
When this game is over, remind to officially whip yo ass for trying to screw it over for the rest of us. Srsly, you AREN'T certain i am scum, because i am NOT. Its not as if you are a cop who has a guilty on me, because I AM TOWN. Now what you think you have, is a great case to vote for me, based on my comments during the game. But tbh, it is BS. Whether or not it makes sense in your own head, it is WRONG. When you see that, you are going to be totally ashamed, but not half as ashamed as you would be if you actually go through with this 'lynch BM, and if he is town, lynch me next' theory. Literally, that will cost us the game. You seem to be feeding the mafia everything they could possibly hope for-by offering them 2 consequtive mislynches on a plate.

Your actions appear to be in part, down to paranoia about people wanting to lynch you. As far as i recall, i made

1 post

stating the simple fact that, if we dont hit scum today, we should certainly be looking in the direction of the masons. I can sort of see why that might look scummy from your perspective (if you think i am setting up future lynches) but then, why the hell do you try and exaggerate what i have said in order to get people to listen to you?

The middle paragraph of post 603 is the most intriguing however. It appears to me, to be an attempt to push what could easily be seen as the 'easy' lynch. Basically CKD, you think i should die because i tend to naturally look scummy, and because i dont trust you. PA-THET-IC.

I cba to go into more detail about this. the sad truth is, i dont think your play is necessarily scummy. Just insanely stupid newb-townie. This is what makes your 'plan' so damn ridiculous. I KNOW I am town, and i dont think you are the best lynch here by a long way. In my mind, you are screwing the entire town over. That seems to be the opinion of the majority aswell, as you want to lynch 2 of the 3 people who have been ranked least scummy today (according to the data at the top of the page).

I'm going to relish watching you squirm post-game but for now, i think its better if we just ignore you. Tomorrow we can re-discuss your theory about me or you being scum, because, if we havent hit scum by tomorrow, i might be willing to go with that.

If nothing else, those votes will give us information later in the game. For now, i need to get to reading Atticus, before i decide who my second choice is.

BM

have to lynch Pigg or CKD tomorrow, huh? why is that..assuming we dont hit scum today, we wont be at lylo, so why? why do you keep talking about lynching the masons? I guess you just provided the mafia an excuse not to hit to kill us tonight...you are so scum..

how about this...We lynch you today, if I am wrong that you are scum, everyone can lynch me tomorrow (hell I wont even argue and will place the first vote on myself)...you have my word.

This game is pretty rich in people who understand the game theory, CKD. BM is merely stating a truism...we need to find out the status of the claimed masons BEFORE we get to LyLo. Sorry, but we just can't blindly trust your claim and keep lynching everyone else.

Ideally, it will turn out we have a cop and the cop will get negative returns on both of you. As I've explained before, until you have BOTH been investigated and cleared, cop investigation doesn't clear one of you by yourself in case we have a godfather. Of course, that opens the cop up for nightkill but buys us 2 for 1.

It is not inherently scummy for BM to point this out, IMO.

The claimed masons are still high on most peoples LoS, it is just the town's consensus you aren't TODAY's play.

Hey, thats fine, lynch me tomorrow IF BM (scum) is lynched today...that is how sure I am...like I said, I will vote myself first, so you wont have any arguement come lylo (about the masons)..but I think once BM is exposed, the other mafia will easily be found. anybody want to ask themselves, why every other post BM wants to hang a mason?..hell, he even tried to threaten me to stop him from pressuring him (would town threaten a mason with a vote?)...he tried to get the cop to claim...he has been in the middle of every scummy play or action this game.

why are you scared of this play Chronx?...you have "shown" suspicion of Bm in this game...I can probably go through this game and find at one time or the other someone has thought BM might be scum.

AGAIN, lynch BM today, and if he doesnt turn out scum, then you can string me up tomorrow without argument, I will even provide the first vote.

[Battle Mage]

lol, back to lynch the masons are we?

what happened to that top three list of yours? I guess they really werent that suspicious to you after all?...oh and look, he even includes a "even if we mislynch the masons it will still be ok" plea in his post...you dont even have a real case against me.

look how quickly he abondons his "top three" and omgus votes when I start mentioning his lynch and I call out his next move which was going to be "lets lynch who is at the top of our lists"

yeah, I think you are scum with BM and probably distad too.

unvote
vote chronx

distad, will your vote follow soon since chronx and I are distancing or was that just fluff talk?

lame. OMGUS voting at this stage, just because people think you are scummy. Thats an all new low for you.

@Chronx-i see your point-we are actually in a precarious position. Its hard to see 3 scum though, in a game with only 2/3 power roles and 10 total players. Even so, i dont think killing a mason today is atall wise. If we havent hit scum by tomorrow, we should look at them very hard. As far as i can see, we can narrow down the group to a few potential scumbags, so in theory, we should be able to pull this off, even at LyLo if necessary.

BM

[Battle Mage]

so the people who "look" the least scummy to you cant be scum?..how have you ever won a game BM?

I'll tell you how. By not assuming i am always right without good reason. If anyone here should be getting a lecture about shite play, its you. But dw, i'm saving most of my anger for after the game.

Oh and 1 tip i like to employ if i want to win a game, is not listen to BSers. Especially the protown know-it-alls who actually know jack-s**t.

[Battle Mage]

BM I too look forward to that conversation end game..

also, funny you dont mention that chronx was omgus vote as well (it came right after I said I would lynch chronx)

both your votes were stupid. but i can sort of sympathise with Chronx, as you are being really dumb atm, and its hard to resist the urge to make you be quiet. :p

Also, would you care to reference games in which you have seen me as scum, and draw your conclusions from them. You obviously think i am pretty damn crap as scum, so please provide evidence of where i have ever completely buddied upto my scum-mates, to the extent that i claim they are confirmed town. Thats truly WIFOM-hope at its finest, no?

[Battle Mage]

dont need a game outside of this one...so you think my suspicious of chronx are dumb?...so who exactly is your possible scum team BM?

i havent set myself to a team yet, until i know whether or not you and D3 can be confirmed.

[Battle Mage]

I think we should ask Theo for a deadline extension. Even ignoring this new discussion, there is no consensus among us for what else to do. No lynch isn't a mathematically viable option...it would open tomorrow at 5-3, if we mislynch we are down to 4-3 and still assuming unopposed nightkills, the nightkill puts us to 3-3 and lose. The mafia isn't going to do us the favor of solving the WIFOM puzzle which is the claimed masons.

REQUEST: DEADLINE EXTENSION

this is called speed mafia chronx

Request the deadline stay as is

you got a problem with that..push my lynch somemore scum

A thought which came to me last night, which concerns me greatly is the possibility of CKD-Desisted-Gorgon scumtrio. It would make the mason claim more viable, and would explain CKD's behaviour today-trying desperately to derail a lynch on Gorgon, even if it means sacrificing himself to do it.

oh and unfortunately our discussion may be cut short due to the deadline.

Confirm Vote: Gorgon

However, i will analyse Atticus before the day ends.

Theo

-if its not too inconvenient for you, could i please request a 90 minute deadline extension?
this will allow me to post when i get in from college, before we go to night.

thanks a ton in advance

BM

[Battle Mage]

fine lynch me then..I am tired of Chronx and BM's crap...if this town believes it then it deserves to lose...I think the only way to prove that Chronx and BM's scumminess is to know that I was speaking the truth..

lynch me..I dare you..come on BM, add your vote on...

what is your next plan BM when Gorgon comes up town?...we will be at lylo, you going to push for the mason lynch then?

this post supports the theory i posted above. It also supports the theory that you are an idiot who we should put on ignore-mode. :p

I'm going to tell you the score one last time. I DO NOT NECESSARILY THINK YOU ARE SCUM. YOU ARE DEFINITELY NOT THE PLAY FOR TODAY.

Understand?

Now grow up, and try and do the town a favour here. Either add your vote to a Gorgon wagon, or be quiet. Tomorrow you can continue trying to lynch me if you haven't sobered up by then.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Chronx, when you get back, you should vote for Gorgon. A No-Lynch today would be the epitomy of s**t.

[Battle Mage]

i would like to see everyone participating at this point-preferably with BW votes on Gorgon. :p

[Battle Mage]

BM you mean 10.30 pm UK Time? Sure thing I can't promise I'll be online but day will end then.

oh wait, i'm blind. i thought your post said 6pm, rather than 9pm. :p
original time is fine in that case

thanks,
BM

[Battle Mage]

if anyone is even thinking about listening to the monotonous droning of CKD, my response is, i will not rise to the bait.

If you want me to refer you to another game in which this exact same argument occurred, i will. Distad might get pissy over it, but i dont think Theo will have a problem as long as nothing impacting is commented on.

BM

[Battle Mage]

heh, can you understand why Bm would be afraid to lynch me today, versus tomorrow if we are at lylo?

i know i said that i wasnt going to respond to this, because a long argument like this will only benefit scum (because town won't bother to read most of it, and none of the important points will be remembered).

But i changed my mind. Anything to boost my post count. lol

I'm not afraid to lynch you today CKD. I simply think that there are far more scummy options out there that remain untested. I only want to lynch a mason in the event of us not hitting scum by tomorrow, simply because, if we havent hit scum by tomorrow, we can be almost certain that your claim is bogus, simply by process of elimination.

Would you mind answering a question for me now. Why are you so desperate to sacrifice yourself today if you are a protown power role?

btw, has Gorgon claimed? if not, i think he should.

BM

[Battle Mage]

because killing a mason tomorrow if we are at lylo has no repercussions for you. If you kill me tomorrow, the mafia wins. I don’t want you to pull that crap tomorrow if we are at lylo. If you are going to that tomorrow, stick to your guns and do it today…I think you are scared to lynch me today, because it would expose you and/or chronx. I think you KNOW that I am a mason, that is why you are not pushing my lynch today you don’t want the town see you actively push and lynch a mason. If you truly believe in a gorgon/claimed mason scum group…hit me today.

Why wouldn’t you want to hang me today? Why wait until we are at lylo?

you appear to think alot of things. shame not one of them is accurate.
What do you think of your play atm? Mainly in this game, but also overall.
Are you on a 'good run'?

(I'm trying to look for an excuse to explain your foolish arrogance)

Oh, and fyi, bossing the town around (especially me) is bad form. Not so much in game terms, but it does annoy me when newbs think they know it all, generally.

[Battle Mage]

who did I boss around? I remember YOU telling chronx to change his vote..

I am just calling you out...you know there will be little repercussions for you if you lynch me at lylo...

why not do it now? why wait till lylo? Why are looking for an excuse, you said you thought I was scum, arent I just being scummy?

I've answered these questions already. The sad thing is, i cant shake the feeling that you genuinely feel you are being incredibly clever. You actually think that you are the only person in this game with a clue what is going on, right?
I mean, Chronx, Distad and myself, must be a scumtrio, because we are bound to not only deliberately tie ourselves together, but also outright defend each other. Because we are all really crap players, who have no concept of playing as scum, and you are a genius, who knows everything, and will get a ton of praise at the end of the game for sealing the victory for the town?

Is this what you want to hear?
If so, you've now heard it as many times as you are going to this game. If you continue this ridiculous know-it-all strategy, its only going to result in two things for you. Firstly, it'll be another 'defeat' for your record sheet (all the cool kids have them). Secondly, after the game, you are going to, at best get a load of stick from the townies in the game. At worst, you are going to end up publically humiliated.

I'm sorry if this sounds mean, but i've learnt that talking nicely to you, doesn't work. Seriously, just reread. And reread again, and again. Keep rereading until you have something worth listening to. I know you wont take it from me, so take it from the fact that nobody other than you has voted for me yet. Hell, i'm one of the easiest mislynches in the world, so the fact that i've only got 1 vote atm, means i must be giving off uber-strong protown vibes. :p

On the upside, if there is an award for suicidal mason of the year, i'm definitely nominating you. :p

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hey, BM, in terms of metagame (since you mentioned it with regard to CKD being on a roll) do you think newbs are more or less dangerous than people who have established a pattern of play on here so that they can be metagamed?

I dont really see the relevance of that here, but i'm ok to go with a random theory discussion. lol

Really it depends. A definition of a newb is someone who doesnt know alot about the game, and thus can often fall for scumtells more easily. In theory they are more susceptible to typical methods of scumhunting.
On the other hand, until someone has played a few games, you can't meta-game them, and they could be genuinely skilful. Still, experienced players can avoid meta traps by switching their playstyle often. Metagaming is generally better used as a defence than an offense, because you wouldnt want to lynch someone based on the fact that they behaved in a similar way when they were last scum. But if someone is being attacked for looking scummy, a good meta defense is that they ALWAYS play like that. This has applied to me alot over my time here. :p

[Battle Mage]

The only reason mafia is keeping us alive is because they're banking on people like you to sucker into the WIFOM idea that CKD's claiming brought about. As soon as you lynch one of us, the other becomes a major threat to mafia as a confirmed townie. So what makes you think we won't lose him too overnight? Then what do we have left? Because you insist on contemplating our claims, we've gotten zilch in scum-hunting discussion. We are essentially forced back to the very beginning of the game page 1, only with 5 less town (including doc and 2 masons), with 3 scum at large. Great play.

If you want to lynch us for being scummy, that's fine. But if your lynch is based solely upon the fact that we claimed mason, then seriously.

why do you think I did the wifom comment right after I claimed..so the mafia would jump all over it and maybe keep us alive. town, the mason (roles) are the only thing that is keeping this game balanced you have to see that in this speed game. Bm and chronx are pushing to lynch or trying to discredit the only advantage the town has here and I am not sure why you dont see it...BM has been threatening me all day to get off his back..and chronx is so full of OMGUS that it is brimming over..review chronx's play..review his play, review his vote, he is trying to get his vote to catch a bandwagon...Yesterday, he was on the Pigg bandwagon, then tried to discredit the mason claim..Today alone he has voted HeH, then

Dude, I'm on your side. I'm trying to talk ChronX out of a mason lynch.

CKD, I have explained that the reason I voted is that when you asked why I was opposed to a BM lynch today and your self-sacrifice tomorrow, I gamed out the outcome of that and realized that if we mislynch BM today, we are at LyLo tomorrow. Therefor, a townie offer to selflessly be lynched in punishment for leading a mislynch today is an anti-town move. Then I thought back to my initial skepticism about your mason claim, and your play today, and I have decided that I was correct to doubt your mason claim.

Boss calling, I have more to post.

CKD has a point. Obvsly the best play would be to avoid a mason lynch altogether. But if it is inevitable, we might as well have it today and not tomorrow (in lylo).

I'm not afraid to lynch you today CKD. I simply think that there are far more scummy options out there that remain untested. I only want to lynch a mason in the event of us not hitting scum by tomorrow, simply because, if we havent hit scum by tomorrow, we can be almost certain that your claim is bogus, simply by process of elimination.

That is the hugest crock of bullshit ever.
Either we kill off one of the masons today, or never.

because killing a mason tomorrow if we are at lylo has no repercussions for you. If you kill me tomorrow, the mafia wins. I don’t want you to pull that crap tomorrow if we are at lylo. If you are going to that tomorrow, stick to your guns and do it today…I think you are scared to lynch me today, because it would expose you and/or chronx. I think you KNOW that I am a mason, that is why you are not pushing my lynch today you don’t want the town see you actively push and lynch a mason. If you truly believe in a gorgon/claimed mason scum group…hit me today.

Why wouldn’t you want to hang me today? Why wait until we are at lylo?

QFT. BM, put your money where your mouth is. I'm not about to see you vote out a mason at lylo just for the sake of voting out a claimed mason.

So don't wait until tomorrow if you're going to vote us. Do it now.

Oh god. we have a matching pair now.
Your claim is looking increasingly shady, and i'm seeing you as a better and better lynch for tomorrow.

@Chronx- i wouldnt say getting a mason role is lucky. I've been mason a couple times and its probably the worst protown power role, unless your mason partner is really really awesome.

@Gorgon-my request for you to claim stands. If you don't, on your head be it. I just don't want to see us end up speed-lynching a protown power role. I'm guessing from your lack of claim, that you aren't, so i stand by a Gorgon-lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

omg. You didnt just claim a weak power role. You just claimed Tracker. Basically a slightly less good version of a cop. It is unlikely now that we have a Cop aswell, so basically you just claimed scum's no.1 target. There were several people i wanted to see claim today, and you werent one of them.

I think it might be potent now to claim who you saw targetting me. Its likely you will die tonight, and frankly, we need all the info we can get...

In fact, due to the change in circumstances, depending on who you claim to have seen, i might be willing to go along with the request of CKD, and lynch him today. I no longer think that masons are a priority to keep around, so its a fairly decent swap.

BM

Hey everyone, I found this bit of game wisdom interesting. Its snipped out of a discussion of game balance in the mini format:

a Mason pair is a bit stronger than an RB or Vig, but not much. (Remember, they're most effective after one has died anyway.)

CKD, rant angrily all you want. The fact of the matter is, the conventional wisdom is that one dead mason makes the other one truly protown. Worst case is, you AREN'T lying, one gets lynched today, one gets NKd tonight (its not like the scum aren't going to kill SOME townie tonight) and another power role survives to tomorrow.

However, with the deadline looming and following that logic some more, I have a weak power role and I'm going to claim now.

I can follow one person each night, and see where they go but not what they do.

I followed one person last night, who did go somewhere, to BM's house. My power apparently doesn't let me see if BM was home, but since he didn't die, I am fairly certain the person I followed must be a pro town player.

I didn't follow one of the claimed masons, because if they are masons, they wouldn't go anywhere (I didn't think to ask if the masons would visit each other but I assumed not). I also figured if they were mafia, they would have the third mafia member send in the night kill so they would still appear to be home (if they somehow thought there might be someone investigating them this way).

Presumably, Survey Says had already flaked by the time of night zero, because I got no information about what he did first night.

This is as much as I can say without feeling like I am starting to quote my PMs.

The person who did something to or with BM knows who they are and can know the truth of my claim, but I would only suggest coming forward if I get bandwagoned.

We know we have a dead doc. I know what I am. I am pretty sure there is another pro town investigative role out there. I suppose a game could have doc, tracker, other, and masons, since its speed. But that is among the leading reasons I doubt the mason claim.

[Battle Mage]

why do you think we have a cop AND a tracker?
I do agree with you about the strange amount of protown power roles we appear to have here.

I dont necessarily agree with the logic that one MUST be scum, but i think the likelyhood of CKD-Pigg scumpair is increasing. Especially with posts like 691, which is a real scum-fest. The hypocrisy alone makes them a decent lynch. 693 translates to: "please get over here and BW a townie so we might survive".

However i still want to see Gorgon hang as a top priority.

BM

Wow, that's a lot of power role claims going around, and this totally changes the discussion. We know we had a doctor. If we believe ChronX, we also have a cop (or possibly a role blocker or a different investigative role) and a tracker. If we believe d3sisted II and Curiouskarmadog we have two masons. I don't think it's reasonable to think we'd have 5 power roles if it was a 9:3 town to scum ratio. Even in a speed game that's too many power roles. I guess we could have 5 power roles if the ratio was 8:4 -- if that's the case we're already in LYLO. I don't think the latter scenario is likely -- therefore, I'm concluding that one of the claimers is lying.

So which is more likely -- a cop/tracker combo or a 2 masons combo? The tracker role is considered an advanced role (according to the Wiki), so I'd think it's a little less likely to be in the game than masons (which are considered basic roles). However, a cop is probably the most common role, so on that basis I'd say they are equally likely. From a game balance standpoint, a cop/tracker combo seems much more powerful than 2 masons. I think if our power roles consist of 2 masons and a doctor we would be seriously underpowered. A trio of doc/cop/tracker seems more balanced considering this is a speed game. If that trio is slightly overpowered, it is possible the scum could have a godfather to balance things out. Overall, on the basis of role likelihood and balance, I tend to think doc/cop/tracker is more likely than doc/2 masons.

Now, I'll consider the individual players. As I stated in my earlier analysis, I've found ChronX to be pretty pro-town. Since then I was starting to have doubts based on some of his recent posts. He kept asking metagame questions that seemed really out of place and I took to be a stalling maneuver designed to distract the town. However, reading back after his claim I'm less concerned about this -- he appears to have been fishing for information that might shed further light on his investigation results. Overall, I still feel good about ChronX.

As for CKD -- at first I strongly suspected the claim was true since it seemed very reckless for a scum to attempt such a gambit. However, his subsequent posts make it clear that he is just the type of player to make such a reckless gambit. At first I wasn't keen on lynching one of the claimed masons today, but ChronX's claim has changed that. I think either ChronX or CKD is lying and we've got to find out which. I believe ChronX is telling the truth, so I'm going to:

Unvote: Atticus

Vote: Curiouskarmadog

[Battle Mage]

actually on second thoughts, would the person who targetted me last night, like to claim, so Chronx can confirm them?

[Battle Mage]

oh look BM, trying to role fish again..

anyone want to guess who this 3rd person will be?..anyone? got money on distad..just a hunch..

at any rate...BM, when you hang us and find out we were indeed town..where oh where will you try to lead this town next?

gg paranoid. :p
Yes i'm rolefishing. You have a problem with that?

also please stop spamming this thread if you dont have anything new to contribute.

I'll repeat in case Gorgon and Chronx cant both see my other post:

Gorgon-please claim your role.
Chronx-if the guy who you saw hasnt claimed by deadline, please claim who it was.
Guy who targetted me last night-please claim so we can confirm you.

BM

[Battle Mage]

had a problem with it when you did it earlier too..

at any rate, I think it is important for the town to hear your thoughts on this NOW versus later...when we come up masons...who do you think the scum will be?

also, going to be interesting to see if he blames d3sisted for our own lynch...versus taking the blame or questioning chronx's about it..

also note, that Bm has no problem with chronx (deadline) claim..

wow, failure to read alert. I'm not even going to respond to you anymore until you make a stab at telling the truth.
Currently you seem to be trying to screw the town up as much as possible, in an attempt to cost us the game. Bravo. Are you a Jester-Pair?

Of the two masons, i think CKD is the better play by far, simply because i think D3sisted might be helpful once his rather irritating sidekick is dead.

Analysis of Atticus pending. HeH-do i take it from your lack of claimitude that you are not the person Chronx saw last night?

[Battle Mage]

Chronx-if the guy who you saw hasnt claimed by deadline, please claim who it was.
Guy who targetted me last night-please claim so we can confirm you.

I'm not sure that is wise. On the plus side, this would confirm ChronX's claim. On the down side, if ChronX is telling the truth then we'd be exposing another power role for the scum. I don't know if that's a good trade at this point. As odd as it sounds, I think we can verify ChronX's claim by lynching a mason. If the mason comes back town, that means we have 3 known power roles -- doc & 2 masons. If that happened, then for ChronX's claim to be true we would have had 5 power roles. Since that's not likely, if one of the claimed masons comes back town then I'd have to conclude that ChronX is lying. We're going to have to deal with the mason question today or tomorrow. If we do so today, we'll not only know if the mason claim was legit but we'll also know if ChronX's claim was legit. And we wouldn't have had to reveal a power role to do so.

I dont think the two scenarios are mutually exclusive. Neither do i think that a mason isnt normally considered a protown power role.
My main concern is not confirming Chronx's claim. It is confirming another player, who we can then eliminate from our enquiries.

BM

[Battle Mage]

thats odd. it tends to be the other way around i.e. i usually quit games with blithering idiots in, simply because they aren't fun. I resent the fact that i'm being bullied into lynching you. But tbh, i'm starting to feel that i'd rather lynch a protown mason who keeps slandering me and confusing the town, than lynch someone i actually think is scum.
Unfortunately, your play here has been poor. You can make as many retorts as you want, but when the game is over, you will see the truth. I hope you are truly ashamed of yourself.

Oh and fyi, i'm going to make it quite clear now that i NEVER want to participate in a game with you again. Regardless of either of our affiliation, your lack of reading comprehension and total ignorance towards the game, really frustrates me.
I seriously reccommend that after this game, you do the same as i did, and seek help from an experienced player, who might be willing to train you up. Until such a time as you make significant improvement in your playstyle, and attitude, i dont reccommend you start any new games. If not for your own sake, then for the sake of everyone else on site who plays these games to have fun, and do their best.

Its a shame that it has to come to this. If you are scum i will at least take consolation from the fact that your play was slightly more understandable. Hell, i'd even take back some of the criticism of your playstyle, but not of your attitude. Regardless of affiliation, that is poor form. If you are town, i'm going to be exceptionally pi$$ed off with you at endgame, especially if we end up losing because of your antics.

Anyway, good luck with the training. If you want, i'll speak to some people, and see if they are willing to lend a hand. I may not be a great player myself, but i know lots of people who are. :p

Unvote, Vote: CKD

BM

I will enjoy our endgame conversation.

can I see why people request a replacement when you are in a game or ask the mod to not let you in games now...

I have tried to do what I can for this town...

town, tomorrow go back and reread Bm's plays... look at his actions, his role fishing, his mistruths, his crap assumptions, his bullying, the insults, his positioning, and the fact he never truly wanted the town to believe the mason claim.

BM and I do agree on one thing..if you really must hang a mason today vote me out first....

Bah, go town.

[Battle Mage]

Reading = done. What I wouldn't give to be a day-vig.

Anyways, what struck me as I read was Mr. PiGG's Person by Person analysis on what was it... page 2? I've seen plenty of scum, when feeling pressured in any way, post anything, whether it be true or not. Just a small thing to note, but it also made me laugh really hard when I read it.

Also, if Battle Mage tells the truth, he is scum to me. He looks like town. Which by his definition, means he's probably scum. (In Amazing Race Mafia, I thought he was town and ended up killing him, the tracker) Just a bit of light metagaming is what I have right now.

Gorgon is very hard to read to me. He posts quite often enough, but as I think of it, there weren't too many actual opinions and not enough scumhunting going on. But of course, he's knew, so I don't know him, and I can't tell if this is what he would do regardless of alignment or whatever.

Distad I'm seeing as town, simply because he doesn't seem to be heavily concerned about the game, but he manages to keep it in check.

Sonicpulsar is neutral to me.

And those are the people who stuck out in my reading.

This post by Atticus deserves comment. Those are the people that STUCK OUT to him?
Since when did somebody neutral, 'stand out'?
Decidedly non-commital methinks.

[Battle Mage]

ok sorry for the triple post, but i have read the entirety of Atticus's posts, and although he has done some scummy things, i dont think he is anywhere near as scummy as Gorgon, so i'm happy to leave him for today. We probably need to look at him if he is still alive tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

The deadline is way too close for comfort now. I've been all too busy today. I've also been invited to a dinner party tonight (I'm at GTM; UK time -1 hour), so I won't be around when the deadline hits. I will need to go offline at around 1.5 hours before the deadline, at the latest.

It looks to me like there's way too much suspicion and antagonism surrounding the mason claim. I think if the mason claim is true, the scum will most likely let them live another night to continue this crap. In the worst-case scenario of an actual mason getting lynched, the claim will finally be confirmed, and we'll have one definitely confirmed player tomorrow if he survives the night. If the scum kill him, at least any remaining protown roles will still be alive.

Therefore ...

Unvote

Vote: curiouskarmadog

And no, I won't claim, and I think claiming the person that ChronX tracked is a bad idea. These are issues for tomorrow, IMO. It makes me uneasy that BM is the only guy pushing for these claims ... I don't think these 'orders' should be followed unless they gain more backing.

I dont see the logic of that last point. Should you be more willing to claim if everyone asks than if one person does, in the knowledge that with lots of people requesting something, the odds of some of them being scum are higher. But w/e. The most important thing atm is to confirm Chronx, for which we need him to claim who he saw.

You're still obv scum, and whether it is a lynch or not, i still want Chronx to return so we can confirm him. This is of the utmost importance. srsly.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Bah. It sure sucks to be right. Ah well. I'm still confident we can pull this game back. Now first things first, i propose we institute a mass-claim today. Only we don't just claim randomly-we claim in a logical order. Assuming we are in LyLo, we need all the information we can get today, if we hope to pull off 3 consequtive scum lynches.
I highly suggest, nay, i DEMAND, that whoever targetted me on Night 2, CLAIM NOW. I dont want Chronx to claim who it is, nor do i want the individual in question to claim their role.

I simply want everyone to say yes or no to the question:
Did you target BM on Night 2?

After that question has been answered, i will claim fully, and then you guys should know the score, after which we can have a popcorn-style claim if you wish.
I'd like to request that nobody makes any votes before we have heard everyone's claim. With 3 scum and only 4 to lynch, it only takes 1 misplaced protown vote to cause a pathetic mislynch and its game over town.
After the claims we can discuss who to lynch-a task which will hopefully be made easier by having 3 confirmed innocents, as i speculate we may have after my claim.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well, that sucked.

I will come out now and say that I targeted BM on night 1 (where night 0 is the first night). I didn't want to do this yesterday because I didn't want to give myself away to the scum, and because of the nature of my role. I also didn't trust BM fully (and still don't trust him), but I guess this is the only way now. If BM does in fact have a good role and maybe some extra info, things may work out yet.

wow. I certainly wasn't expecting that.
I'll comment more after everyone has posted. I need to check if there is a counter-claim before i say more.

BM

[Battle Mage]

oh and Chronx-please dont confirm Gorgons claim either way at this point.

[Battle Mage]

Mod please prod Distad

who has been online but not posted in the thread.

[Battle Mage]

I targeted BM on the second night.

Gorgon, who did you target on the first and third nights?

See this is what i was expecting. HeH was hinting at this earlier yesterday. Tbh, i'm trusting his claim more atm. But i'd still like to hear from the players who haven't confirmed either way. I know SonicPulsar is one of them.

Gorgon, i advise that you dont reveal your previous targets yet. Firstly i just want to hear a full role-claim from you. As soon as SonicPulsar has confirmed whether he targetted me or not, you can go ahead and claim.

thanks for going with this btw. Don't worry, i think we should be able to resolve a few things simply by going in a chronological order with this.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Mod, please

Prod: SonicPulsar

[Battle Mage]

Hey, BM... settle down. It hasn't even been 24 hours since daybreak.

Look, I'm anxious, too. I want to find out whom ChronX can confirm as much as everyone else does. However, getting unjustly prod-happy as you have over the last 20 hours is inexcusable.

Simma-down.

And yes, this is totally OMGUS from your demanding that I get involved yesterday. You've been around this game for WELL too long to do that. It's completely uncalled for.

Yeh i know, i just want to get things moving. This is a speed game, and i'm excited because i have a great idea which could save this game yet, but the plan can only be put into action once SP has claimed whether he targetted me on Night 2.

I don't understand your last paragraph. Please do explain while we wait.

[Battle Mage]

I'm just saying that my venting was, in part, the lingering frustration from being called out 90 minutes into the day.

Ftr, I always leave a window open here at my house, because I hate needing to log-on when I get to the computer. It's not a problem at work, for some reason.

lol theres no need to get upset about nearly being prodded. Hell, you don't attack the mod when he asks you to post more, do you?
this is a Speed Game, and i dont want to give anyone the chance to lurk. I am naturally suspicious when i see someone viewing the thread and then not posting.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Awesome. that is good news. I dont know quite what i'd have done if

3

people had targetted me. :p

Now, the next thing that must be done is that Gorgon should roleclaim. Then, depending on his claim, we go on from there, by either asking HeH to roleclaim, or by getting Chronx to confirm who he saw.

I have to go out now, but i'll be back in 2 hours or so, at which point i can go into more detail. Thanks for your patience.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Right i don't know how much detail to go into now, but suffice to say, i can vouch for Chronx's innocence, 100%. I wasn't really sure where to go next with these confirmations, but i figure confirming myself might be a good start if i expect you guys to trust me. So, i'm revealing why i am so interested in who targetted me on Night 2.

It is because, on Night 2, i was roleblocked. That means, ideally, that one of the two people who targetted me is the Roleblocker, and can also be confirmed town. That is 3 confirmed townies (assuming you don't think i am scum who managed to work out he had been roleblocked, without actually submitting the choice himself :p).
Then we have the other player who claimed to target me. Now with 1 doc dead, i'm guessing that we dont have another, so i think we can safely say that this player is protown also (because if they were scum who had taken a pop at me, i would have died, due to nobody claiming to have protected me). So thats 4 confirmed townies, and with 7 players left, that leaves our 3 scum i reckon. But just to make sure everything is above board, i'd like Gorgon to claim next. I never thought i'd be so pleased to be wrong about someone, but i'm really happy that Gorgon is town, simply because i nearly made the screw up of lynching him yesterday (which might have cost us the game). Still, as his play has been suspicious to me, and we can't be too trusting, i'd like Gorgon to roleclaim fully before HeH. Once Gorgon has claimed, HeH can claim next, and once they have both claimed, i'd like Chronx to name which individual he saw.
After that, i'll make my full-claim, and then we can hear from the remaining 3 players.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Okay, I'll claim.

I'm a roleblocker, and yes, I blocked BM on the second night, on my perpetual hunch that he might be scum, and that if he were scum, he would be a likely candidate to be sent to do the nightkill, seeing that he went against the flow in general at the end of the day, and opposed the d3sisted lynch, and was therefore possibly least suspicious of the scum. Heck, I had to pick someone anyway.

On the first night, I selected randomly and blocked HeH. Last night, I blocked Atticus as a very possible scum candidate. I picked him over HeH because HeH was redeeming himself a lot by the end of the day with his analyses, while Atticus was as lurkish as ever.

Guess HeH is next.

ah thats good. I'm going to assume that HeH doesnt want to counter that, so i think we can confirm Gorgon as town, which is awesome. Now, i'm intrigued by HeH's offer of me claiming first, so i will comply, but only when Chronx claims who he saw on the second night, targetting me. Obviously if he saw HeH, HeH can also be confirmed. If he saw Gorgon, HeH still remains a suspect.

Distad's post confuses me a little. There was no real reason to claim vanilla yet. I also don't see what you mean about SP and HeH breadcrumbing. I don't see why you would question Gorgon about his Night 1 Roleblock choice. Obviously as a protown power role like RB, you want to confirm yourself as early as possible. By using his power every night, Gorgon has managed to confirm himself as innocent.

BM

[Battle Mage]

ah thats good. I'm going to assume that HeH doesnt want to counter that, so i think we can confirm Gorgon as town, which is awesome. Now, i'm intrigued by HeH's offer of me claiming first, so i will comply,

but only when Chronx claims who he saw on the second night, targetting me

. Obviously if he saw HeH, HeH can also be confirmed. If he saw Gorgon, HeH still remains a suspect.

Distad's post confuses me a little. There was no real reason to claim vanilla yet. I also don't see what you mean about SP and HeH breadcrumbing. I don't see why you would question Gorgon about his Night 1 Roleblock choice. Obviously as a protown power role like RB, you want to confirm yourself as early as possible. By using his power every night, Gorgon has managed to confirm himself as innocent.

BM

I think not, BM. You have your cake. Now go on and eat it.

I HIGHLY recommend that everyone else sit back and let this play out between HeH and BM. They are full of info they are just DYING to share once someone else shares some.

Distad, your are singing just the right tune.
Atticus, what did you find?
SP, if you breadcrumbed, let the birds eat it for now.
Gorgon, roleblocker is a bit like vig, night 1 (zero, whatever) its a huge crapshoot whether to use it or not. In a game with 1 mafia, and several protown power roles, you have higher odds of blocking the cop or the doc or whatever. Much like his cop fishing earlier, BM is either really bad at this game or full of it at the moment.

So, BM....enlighten us. Or persuade HeH.

this post makes little sense to me. Why now so cagey with information? especially such important information...
I'm not claiming until we know where we stand. That means you confirming either Gorgon or HeH as targetting me on Night 2.

Then i will gladly claim all.

[Battle Mage]

@ Battle Mage.

Let's claim at the same time. Compose a post that reveals your role, powers, what you did each night and the result of your action. I'll do the same. When you're ready, post a note and we'll pick a time to simultaneously post. That way, our claims cannot be modified based on what the other has said. If either of us fails to post at the agreed upon time they will look inherently scummy. I've got nothing to hide. If you don't either, please agree with this course of action.

lol its ok dude. I've said i have no problem with claiming first. But, the thing that does bother me is not knowing who Chronx actually saw targetting me. Not that it has any impact on my claim itself, but it does have serious impact on what we should do next.

[Battle Mage]

What a crappy start. Lucky scum bastards ...

Vote: Battle Mage

because he's the only one here whose name I remember seeing in the games I've read.

*cues the Debbie Boone music*

Memories....da da da doo doo dee da....Troubling scumtelly in his first post MEMMMMMMMMM-O-RIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES...of the way...we were.....

i'm sorry but i'm missing the significance of this. lol
Can you just claim who you tracked on the 'night in which Raffles died'.
From your posts at SP, am i to assume that you saw HIM targetting me!?

[Battle Mage]

lol its ok dude. I've said i have no problem with claiming first. But, the thing that does bother me is not knowing who Chronx actually saw targetting me. Not that it has any impact on my claim itself, but it does have serious impact on what we should do next.

I don't see why ChronX needs to say this before we claim.

QFT. If BM's claim doesn't depend on ChronX, specifically, what's the hold up?

because as well as my claim, i'd like to make some reasonable assumptions, which it is very hard to do when we cannot ascertain whether HeH is confirmed innocent or not.

[Battle Mage]

I think he's waiting for ChronX.

Well, ChronX is definitely waiting for BM ...

BM has said that he doesn't have a problem with claiming before ChronX says who he tracked, though, so I think it's just a matter of BM and HeH carrying out HeH's plan of posting their claims simultaneously. I don't see any problem with this.

lol i dont see how this solves anything. Frankly the order of claims is irrelevant. I don't care whether i go first, last or somewhere in between. But, as i volunteered to claim first, and i'm a man of my word, i shall.

The only condition i am setting is that i am not claiming before Chronx has claimed who he saw on that 1 night. I don't understand his reluctance-it cant possibly have any impact on my claim, as i am hardly under suspicion for targetting myself.
I dont really have a good reason for this request, except that there is no reason not to, and personally, i would find it very helpful (as would every protown player here). We already know that ChronX saw someone, and 2 people have claimed to be that person. I'd like to conclude this so we can move onto the next thing (claims). Plus i'd like an explanation for the strange post Chronx made on the last page.

BM

[Battle Mage]

In my mind the jury is out on just about everyone until we've gotten all the claims out in the open and can compare what people have found. I have a pretty good idea of what we'll find, but we'll have to wait until everyone has claimed before tying it all together with any confidence.

Anyway, thanks for answering. That was a rather uninteresting diversion, but it did keep us busy for a few minutes and answer some minor questions. And now we're back to waiting for Battle Mage. :checks watch:

The jury is currently out on everyone apart from Chronx and Gorgon as far as i am concerned. And hopefully you will consider me to be innocent after my claim, so there is one less chance for us to blow this game.

Fyi, i hate the fact that Chronx is witholding information here. I'd find this game so much more breakable if he could confirm HeH's claim. It seems Chronx, you are wary of how i consider you so certainly innocent.

So i'll claim. It may help when reading this claim that you reread my entire play. It should be entirely consistent with my role-i tried to leave breadcrumbs along the way to confirm myself and to make sure my information was accessible upon my death.

I would like to add now that, after my claim, i DO NOT want HeH to claim immediately. I definitely want my answer from Chronx first, because frankly, if he can confirm HeH, there isn't a great deal of point him claiming first, and we might want to change the order.

Claim will be in next post.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I AM NOT going to reveal my Raffles-night target nor my activity last night until I see what everyone else has to say.

Actually i must've missed this post. Before i claim, i'd like Chronx to retract this statement. I don't want to claim fully and then leave Chronx with an excuse to be unhelpful.

[Battle Mage]

ChronX, is the person you tracked to BM definitely either Gorgon or HeH?

Lol, it interests me greatly to see that:

1. Chronx has STILL deliberately failed to respond to the question posed by Distad.
2. Chronx has STILL deliberately failed to accept that once i have claimed fully, i suspect him to follow suit.
3. Chronx is accusing ME of stalling the game, when in actuality, the fact that the game is no moving is down to him not keeping his word.
4. Players like Gorgon (and probably others who i cba to name) also repeatedly claim that I am stalling the game, when in fact as HeH said, we not only have plenty of time, but we were also waiting on Chronx to reveal what we agreed he would do after Gorgon claimed.
5. It is the confirmed townies at this point who are striking me as so unhelpful. Which really sucks.

But anyway Chronx isnt going to be helpful today, so i will go ahead and claim anyway. I srsly hope that once you know i am innocent Chronx, you get a grip-and fast. We aren't hard up for time today, but that doesnt mean that concealing information for an unnecessary amount of time is acceptable either.

Claim (once again) pending.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Role: Jack of All Trades

Ability:
several 1-shot powers which can be used at night.

At the start of the game i had:
1 shot Cop Investigation.
1 shot Doc Protection.
1 shot Roleblock.
1 shot NK Immunity.
1 shot Redirect.
1 shot Vig-Kill.

I may have forgotten one, but i think thats it.

Anyway, here's the story which should explain my play this game:

Night 0, i used my Cop Investigation. When i first got my role, i was kinda expecting to be NKed night 0, hence my pleasant surprise on Day 1. It was obvious to use my Investigation then-at least whatever happened, i'd have some information to pass on. Knowing SPAG, and that he had 'coincidentally' given me the most powerful damn protown power role i've ever seen, i felt looking back at the signups list, i might be able to get some indication of who he had made scum. I saw that SurveySays had an interesting '/in' post, so i targetted him. I'm sure you can go back and check this for yourselves-i dont remember exactly what he said, but i remember feeling decent about hitting scum with him. As it goes, i was wrong, and the result was TOWN.
And so i knew SurveySays was town-unfortunately this knowledge wasnt very helpful when he was lurking the game away. Eventually, he was replaced by Chronx-who did post prolifically. I believe i made a breadcrumb when he replaced in, inferring "i trust you implicitly", and followed his vote. This was picked up on by Gorgon i believe, who justifiably found my vote following suspicious. With hindsight, it was stupid to follow the vote of someone just because you know they are town, but at the time i was trying to communicate to him that i knew he was town.
Anyway at the end of Day 1, i had come up with an awesome plan. I figured that my days were numbered (or nights to be more accurate), so i decided to do an analysis of every single player, with the primary intention of breadcrumbing my innocent result on Chronx, in case i died, but with the other intention of luring Distad into a trap. If i recall, my 3 innocents at the end of Day 1 were Chronx, Distad, and SonicPulsar. I should note that i genuinely found SP to look very protown at the time. I was extremely happy to see him criticise my analysis of Distad (which was total BS btw). It gave me very good vibes. Now why was i trying to lure Distad into a trap?
Simple really. With the opportunity to RoleBlock scum, but only working if i hit the one who did the kill, i figured the scum would:
1. send the person who was under least suspicion, to commit the kill.
2. have significant input from an active player like Distad, if he were scum.
I figured if i lulled him into a false sense of security, he would send the kill, and i just might be able to successfully RoleBlock him.
Of course, when Night fell, i had come up with an alternative idea. I asked Theo, and found that i was allowed to use the Redirect option in the same way as a RoleBlock, except that instead of potentially stopping a kill, i could redirect a kill back onto the scum! Unsure which one to use, and rather busy at the time anyway, i failed to send in a choice before the Day opened. I pmed Theo asking why the heck he didnt prod me, and he then told me that it didn't matter anyway because i had been RoleBlocked.
So i never got to put my plan into action, but on the upside, i still had most of my 1-shot powers by Day 2.
Now, the Mason claim was another issue to be dealt with. Of course, i couldnt confirm them either way, but i felt that because the scum weren't going to kill 1 at night, and leave 1 confirmed for the day, we had to lynch one at some point. My idea was ofc, after 1 had been lynched, should the other be confirmed, to protect them at night, and almost certainly cost the scum a kill. But more on that later.
At the time, i simply wanted to confirm them either way if possible. Knowing that we would lose 2 people before the next day, i dreaded the possibility of losing the Cop before he had the chance to claim and we could have ended up losing the game not knowing the affiliation of the masons. Of course, i knew i could offer the Cop 1 nights protection, should he claim, anyway, so i felt it was worth it. That was until Chronx brought something rather important to my attention- the fact that there could easily be a Godfather in this game. This was important for 2 reasons.
1. It meant that even a cop investigation on 1 mason wouldnt be conclusive, making a cop claim less valuable.
2. It meant that my innocent result on Chronx was now far from assured. I still maintain that until we hit scum and can ascertain whether they appear as 'Goon' or 'Member', we cannot be sure about mafia power roles. The fact that he even brought it up gave me some doubts.

Anyway it was also on Day 2, that HeH made some strange breadcrumbs. I spent most of the day trying to ascertain whether or not he was trying to communicate with me-on the assumption that i thought he might have been the RoleBlocker. Again, please go back and read my questions at this time. I tried to be as subtle as possible, but in the end, i came to the conclusion that he probably wasnt the RB.

I wont go into detail about the whole BM vs CKD issue. At the time i was by no means convinced by his claim, but i didnt think it was worth lynching him over immediately. You can see for yourselves how helpful his suicide strategy would have been for the town. It would literally have killed our chances. Of course, we wasted a lynch on him, but on the bright side, we at least got rid of a very big distraction.

And then at the end of Day 2, we had a pretty big blunder from Chronx. His Tracker claim had good and bad points. On the upside, it eased my mind of any doubts i had about him. I find it pretty damn impossible that he would not only be a Godfather, but also know who the RB targetted and when. The only possible combo that fits is a Mafia GF-RB pair. Of course, if we mislynch today and see tomorrow, this may become something you should note, but for now, highly unlikely. Hence i am 99.8% sure that Chronx is town. The only thing that gives me any doubts is the number of power role claims we seem to have. With a Doc dead, we also have a Jack of All Trades and RoleBlocker for sure. Tracker, and 2 masons in addition, PLUS we havent heard all the claims yet. Seems ridiculously unbalanced for a 3 man scumteam.
The negative side of Chronx's claim was that it forced my hand. Because he wouldn't respond to my request for him to claim who he saw targetting me on that night (because obv, i could afford them protection that night as a top priority, and scum wouldnt know they were a strong power role anyway). Because of this, i had to use my Protect on him last night. Whilst Desisted was confirmed innocent, so was Chronx, and Chronx had a very useful power role.
Hence we lost Desisted.
Anyway, thats pretty much it i think. Today i again find Chronx's play unhelpful, and ftr Chronx, in future games, you need to srsly work on looking more protown. When reading your play, i found you nearly as scummy looking as Gorgon/Distad, and i KNEW you were town. lol

I said earlier that i was relieved that Gorgon was the RB, because i very nearly considered Vigging him at times. Glad i didnt, now. lol

There may be some other breadcrumbs i left, but i cant remember them.

That is my claim. Next i want Chronx to claim ONLY who he saw target me on the Night Raffles died. I dont want a full claim-just the bare necessities to allow me to get a grip with where we are.
HeH can claim after, and ONLY AFTER, Chronx has met this request.

i hope this clears up any issues with my play.

By the way, if anyone has any doubts about my claim, i have 1 special breadcrumb up my sleeve. Unfortunately as it is slightly immoral to use it, i'd rather not unless i have to. But just so you know.

BM

[Battle Mage]

wow, s**te. Looks like i got simul-

posted

bandwagonned.
You people say

I

have no patience.
I srsly dont like the fact that Gorgon has outright lied in post 815.
I disagree with HeH in post 821. Dude, we cant go after Chronx full throttle, because he is CONFIRMED TOWN. I dont know how i can make this any clearer. We need to open his eyes to the situation and get him to contribute, but votes wont achieve that. I thought patience might work, but i guess all that patience is rewarded with around here is ridiculous BW voting.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Flavor, BM?

lol my pm didnt contain any flavour. I srsly hope you are taking the rip here...

Gorgon-you lied when you said i logged off the site, when in fact i was on the site the whole time, making my claim post.

[Battle Mage]

Yeah more or less...more of a swipe than a rip.

Actually, i dont even wanna know. Just claim who you saw on the second night already.

I dont know why i wouldnt have appeared on the list. I dont go on 'Hidden' Mode, so unless the site is broken, or you all lie, i have no idea why i wasnt listed.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM - I don't understand how you can't recall if you are missing something. Don't you still have your role pm?

no something from my role pm-something about the game itself that i wanted to comment on...

[Battle Mage]

What blunder did I make? You can disagree with my claim timing, but it advanced the game exponentially over where we would be now if I hadn't.

You and I also seem to disagree about the power of my power. My results are barely results at all. I can't determine alignment, or even action. Suppose I followed someone and they ended up at Raffles house that night. I couldn't say for SURE that they were the murderer. I could have pointed the finger and the accused could say, well, I'm the cop and I went and investigated him that night. He was town! (LOL)

I thought claiming was a chance to divert the mafia if the masons turned out to be masons. Clearly they thought d3sisted was the better townie to kill, and they would have had no reason to suppose there was still doc protection out there.

And for discussion, you sure have set up a nice WIFOM if we get through today without the game ending and you wake up alive tomorrow. Heck, you even possibly have powers you haven't told us about yet!

you clearly forget that if the game isnt over by tomorrow, assuming we dont hit scum today, there can only be 2 scum. That means you and Gorgon are no longer confirmed innocents. Do you actually deny this, or are you simply enjoying acting paranoid too much to stop and get a grip?

[Battle Mage]

Role: Jack of All Trades

Ability:
several 1-shot powers which can be used at night.

At the start of the game i had:
1 shot Cop Investigation.
1 shot Doc Protection.
1 shot Roleblock.
1 shot NK Immunity.
1 shot Redirect.
1 shot Vig-Kill.

I may have forgotten one, but i think thats it.

ah i forgot to delete that lol. As it goes, when i originally typed it up, i forgot that i had the 1 shot Vig-Kill, so i was right to make the comment. :p

@HeH-what doubts do you have about my claim? I dont think i could possibly have breadcrumbed any better, nor could i have done a better job with the night choices i made. As far as i'm aware, you werent particularly suspicious of me before today. Why has my claim increased your suspicion of me?

As far as Chronx claiming first goes, its pretty simple. As far as the game is concerned, if Chronx can claim that he saw you target me on that night, you needn't, and shouldn't claim first. It also puts us in an entirely different situation, because it gives us 4 confirmed innocents from a group of 7. In that case we can take our time to work through the process of questionning and lynching them, and hopefully win the game.
But, if Chronx can't confirm you, then time may be important, as we will have 1 innocent in a group of 4 suspects. Even worse-if Chronx saw SOMEONE ELSE target me, we have to re-evaluate our entire strategy. Mass-claims might be postponed until tomorrow, because we would have a confirmed guilty.

And in actuality, there is nothing that Chronx can say that will allow you to retract what you have already claimed. Whatever he says will have absolutely no impact on your claim, because you have already claimed to be out that night. As i've said countless times, i dont want a full claim from Chronx-just the details of that night.

What Chronx says about unconcious OMGUS is probably true. I admit that when i am confronted with attacks that i see as totally illogical, and i feel that people aren't paying attention, i find it hard just to let them be. Thats why i try to discourage personal attacks in mafia-personal emotions really screw up your scumdar.

FoS: HeH

for the whole 'i might modify my claim' argument. Srsly, if you were town, you would realise that there is no way that ANYTHING Chronx says can impact your claim as long as he doesnt go overboard with the claiming.

If Chronx cant confirm HeH as targetting me on the night i was RB'ed, i'd say my top suspects are Distad and HeH, with the 3rd scum being amongst SonicPulsar and Atticus (probably the latter).

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM should be returning from class pretty soon. I anticipate an answer by the time I get back from the gym (which I'll be leaving for in about 45 minutes, FYI).

returning from class? its late evening here. I'm more concerned with going to sleep soon. lol

[Battle Mage]

not the strongest claim in the world by a long shot. The odds of having a Tracker and Cop and Jack of All Trades (3 roles with investigative capability) is very slim, and thats without also having a RB, 2 masons and a Doctor.
I also find it hard to believe that Distad is town.

[Battle Mage]

FoS: HeH for the whole 'i might modify my claim' argument. Srsly, if you were town, you would realise that there is no way that ANYTHING Chronx says can impact your claim as long as he doesnt go overboard with the claiming.

You know, BM, your play in this game has been almost as bad if not worse than you accuse everyone else of playing. Are you deliberately misconstruing what HeH ACTUALLY said, or did you not bother to read what he ACTUALLY said?

What he said is that by going first it would PREVENT him from modifying his claim, or in other words, he couldn't be accused of doing that. You then proceed to accuse him of being scum because he wants to avoid any appearance that he is scum.

Oh, and practice typing "paranoid". You aren't going to like the details of what I have to say.

Hurry up, HeH. It gets fun soon.

SP, you around?

lol it doesnt look like it is me with reading comprehension difficulties here. However, i'll give you 1 shot to explain yourself, because i really cba to deal with another CKD.
So, here's another question. I know you have trouble answering them, but if this fails, i don't think communication between you and us is going to be possible, full stop.
How could HeH have modified his claim based upon you confirming or denying seeing him on that night?

I'm getting ready to laugh my arse off at your response.

[Battle Mage]

We have yet to hear from ChronX about who he has tracked last night and the night before; he has been suggesting that the results are interesting. I will reserve further judgement until he reveals this. Hopefully all the pieces will fall together neatly.

he has also made inferences that he has information which presents me in a negative light, which truly intrigues me. Lets hope he doesnt backtrack now there is yet 1 more reason why i am not scum.

[Battle Mage]

ok a few pretty significant problem with this analysis. The largest issue is probably the fact that if Chronx and I are scum, Gorgon has to be scum, as does HeH. 4 man scum-team would already have won i think, so your entire theory is physically impossible.

Furthermore there are a few problems with your analysis of my claim in particular. I dont know what you mean by 'reflector'-in my experience the role is typically referred to as Redirector or something similar. You should also remember that these are only 1 shot powers.
My actions on Night 0 make total sense when you think about it. I could have used NK immunity to ensure that i survive to Day 1, but as the game wore on, the chance of me dying via NK would increase exponentially. I figured that the scum are going to take a pop at me on Night 2 if they shoot me on Night 1, so i might aswell try to get some information in case they do make a cock-up. Plus i was hoping that i would get Doc-Protection anyway.

Oh and the NK-immunity is not as you say it is. I choose it as my power for 1 night only, making me immune to NK for that night. Again, a 1-shot ability.

I'm not even going to assess the rest of this analysis, because it is built entirely on lies and misjudgements and impossibilities.

ftr, i really dont like the fact that Atticus isnt saying much. If he is town, we REALLY need his input. If he is scum, i dont want to see him lurk his way to victory...

BM

Well, I'm piecing this together in between conference calls (<sigh>), but this is what I have thus far:

I believe that BM, ChronX and HeH are all scum.

1)They spent the first 4 days of 'today' bickering. It's a huge distancing ploy that kills time so that now when the information is out there, we're under time-duress.

2)BM's claim is way too powerful. Vig, Doctor, Cop, RB, NK-immune, 'Reflector' ?? Good lord. Further, his explanation of =Confused= night doesn't make sense. If he figured that he would be killed, why wouldn't he have used his NK-protection that night? And if it is a standing protection that automatically is used the first night that he is targeted, why would he be surprised at all? He couldn't have died. It just doesn't make sense.

3)ChronX comes out with the idea to lynch a mason. Unfortunately, I agreed. BM knows that they're not scum, so pushes like all hell to not kill them that day; only to revisit them at lylo. After one died, they NK the other to remove the only confirmed townie. Then, the next morning, the first thing BM says is, "I hate it when I'm right." HA!

4)ChronX states that he's a tracker (non-confirmable) and says that he tracked someone to BM. He asks who targeted him, knowing that if no one else claimed to track him, one of the scum would certainly say "I did. I'm" such-and-such role. At that point, BM states that he's confirming ChronX and whomever targeted him (because he clearly didn't die, so that person MUST be a pro-town role).

5)ChronX claims a weird result from Gorgon. The whole time, I assumed that it was BM-ChronX-Gorgon. But, by claiming this weird result, he knows that in lylo, by spinning the town against Gorgon, it would be a scum-win.

6)HeH claims cop and has night results clearing BM. This alone doesn't ping the scumdar much. BM could certainly be a Godfather. The part that gets it is that only Gorgon and HeH said that they targeted BM on the night Raffles died. But, ChronX's weird claim against Gorgon shines the spotlight on HeH.

There it is.

Care to respond, guys?

[Battle Mage]

ooh. well that is intriguing. It means that we cannot confirm HeH. But i dont understand what you are saying about Gorgon. You are saying that he definitely didn't target Atticus last night?
There is 1 potentially valid explanation for this, but with only Atticus to claim, i'm not sure whether we will get it. If not, i'm very confused...

I followed Gorgon on the night Raffles died. He went to BM's house.

The problem for me was, Gorgon has acted weird this whole game. And he was alluding to claiming due to the pressure BM had been putting on him to claim. And he hammered CKD, although claiming not to have realized he was doing so.

So I followed him again on the night d3sisted/mason was killed. Here's where it gets weird...he didn't go anywhere. His claim is that he went and blocked Atticus.

The problem I have with all of this is that I don't know what it means. Was I roleblocked but not informed, and instead just told he stayed home, as that what it would seem to me? Or did he lie? Or did he lie, but only about who he roleblocked...maybe he roleblocked ME because he doubted my claim, and THAT is what made me get the result I appeared to get. Or maybe he is a mafia roleblocker and roleblocked me because he DIDN'T doubt my claim.

I dragged out sharing this because it is so ambiguous, and I wanted as much untainted info as I could get out of people before I spoke of it. Personally, I wanted to press SP and Atticus to claim before I posted this, but I didn't think the rest of you would have any patience with that, and didn't want to jeopardize my credibility (further). I also wanted to see what people's reactions to HeH's claim would be while it was still fully in doubt (as, unfortunately, it is).

I don't know how to analyze any of this, and will gladly respond to further questions if they will help others analyze.

Another reason I followed Gorgon again is that the best experience I have with this game is the game I modded at the other site I play at (you know everything as it happens when you are modding, so it gives you pbp insight). In that game, 2 of the baddies opened the game with a love fest, but were soon openly accusing each other of being scum. Here, Gorgon opened the game blowing kisses to BM (as well as congratulating the scum on their doc kill, which is a huge scumtell); later, BM has pummelled the crap out of Gorgon.

From what I have metagamed of the original mod, he was an ambitious fellow, so I can totally see him setting this game up loaded with power roles, and trying to tweak it back and forth by also loading up the scum with tricks. Also, it took FOREVER for him to get approval to run this. So, a mafia roleblocker? I could see it. BM isn't going to like this, but I can still see him as the Godfather, although usually a Godfather has to be the killer and if he is roleblocked, the is no night kill.

[Battle Mage]

In between coaching assignments:

@BM, I said that I didn't see Gorgon do anything on the night d3/mason died. I don't know what it means. I don't have enough experience with the nuts and bolts of powerroles on this site to do more than speculate what I would have seen if he roleblocked me (its a paradox that could be handled various ways).

@complaint box: I probably won't ever mod on this site. Atticus' behavior is totally unacceptable and he would be replaced at the other site I've played. Here, it seems that picking up your prods and apologizing, while contributing NOTHING to the game for weeks, is viewed as a potential strategy to victory and not shitty inconsiderate behavior.

hmm this gives us a real quandry. Atticus didn't claim Redirector (which i was hoping he would do, as it would clear up this issue very easily). As it stands, i'm genuinely confused. Need to give this alot of thought tomorrow.

BM

[Battle Mage]

1. I didnt say Gorgon had to be scum with HeH. I'm saying that if i was scum, Gorgon would have to be my buddy, unless you seriously believe that i try ridiculously risky gambits when scum. If HeH and Chronx are also scum with me, that makes 4 minimum. Which as you well know is not the case. So just drop this.

2. We can discuss the best strategy to use when made Jack of All Trades, after the game. Until then you seem to be arguing for the sake of it. Maybe you genuinely feel that protecting myself for 1 night, even though i would be significantly more likely to die, informationless on the next night, was the best plan, but i know that you understand the logic behind what i did, as a viable alternative. So please stop feigning incredulity.

3. fyi, i've never seen a variant of nk immunity like that before. Suffice to say, if it does exist, it isnt exactly compatible with this role.
Personally i thought it would be better to take a risk on surviving N0, knowing that if i was successful, i would have some solid information to provide to the town, rather than merely my infinite wisdom. Much as we both know that i am a brilliant player, there is no substitute for mod confirmation. Mathematically, what i did makes perfect sense. Again, we can go into detail about this after the game, if i am wrong, and you do turn out to be town.

It concerns me that you feel you have 'refuted my arguments'. What you originally had was hardly a case, and frankly, i've torn that apart.

Keep digging though. Its not going to be my grave.

BM

ok a few pretty significant problem with this analysis. The largest issue is probably the fact that if Chronx and I are scum, Gorgon has to be scum, as does HeH. 4 man scum-team would already have won i think, so your entire theory is physically impossible.

Why does Gorgon have to be scum with HeH? Becaue they both claimed to follow you? ChronX couldn't know if someone else followed him, also. The plan stands on needing one person to claim him.

Furthermore there are a few problems with your analysis of my claim in particular. I dont know what you mean by 'reflector'-in my experience the role is typically referred to as Redirector or something similar.

ticky-tacky. The point is still there.

You should also remember that these are only 1 shot powers.

Not forgotten...

My actions on Night 0 make total sense when you think about it. I could have used NK immunity to ensure that i survive to Day 1, but as the game wore on, the chance of me dying via NK would increase exponentially. I figured that the scum are going to take a pop at me on Night 2 if they shoot me on Night 1, so i might aswell try to get some information in case they do make a cock-up. Plus i was hoping that i would get Doc-Protection anyway.

You can hope that all you want. But the fact is that if you don't make it past N0, you help NO ONE. It still doesn't make sense.

Oh and the NK-immunity is not as you say it is. I choose it as my power for 1 night only, making me immune to NK for that night. Again, a 1-shot ability.

In other games that I've played, a 1-shot NK immunity goes into effect the first time you're targeted to be killed. You don't have to say "I'll be NK-immune tonight." The reason I brought up both sides is that EITHER WAY, you guarantee surviving N0!!!!! No need for surprise!!!!

I'm not even going to assess the rest of this analysis, because it is built entirely on lies and misjudgements and impossibilities.

I believe that I have refuted your arguments. Please come back and respond to the rest.

ftr, i really dont like the fact that Atticus isnt saying much. If he is town, we REALLY need his input. If he is scum, i dont want to see him lurk his way to victory...

BM

Well, I'm piecing this together in between conference calls (<sigh>), but this is what I have thus far:

I believe that BM, ChronX and HeH are all scum.

1)They spent the first 4 days of 'today' bickering. It's a huge distancing ploy that kills time so that now when the information is out there, we're under time-duress.

2)BM's claim is way too powerful. Vig, Doctor, Cop, RB, NK-immune, 'Reflector' ?? Good lord. Further, his explanation of =Confused= night doesn't make sense. If he figured that he would be killed, why wouldn't he have used his NK-protection that night? And if it is a standing protection that automatically is used the first night that he is targeted, why would he be surprised at all? He couldn't have died. It just doesn't make sense.

3)ChronX comes out with the idea to lynch a mason. Unfortunately, I agreed. BM knows that they're not scum, so pushes like all hell to not kill them that day; only to revisit them at lylo. After one died, they NK the other to remove the only confirmed townie. Then, the next morning, the first thing BM says is, "I hate it when I'm right." HA!

4)ChronX states that he's a tracker (non-confirmable) and says that he tracked someone to BM. He asks who targeted him, knowing that if no one else claimed to track him, one of the scum would certainly say "I did. I'm" such-and-such role. At that point, BM states that he's confirming ChronX and whomever targeted him (because he clearly didn't die, so that person MUST be a pro-town role).

5)ChronX claims a weird result from Gorgon. The whole time, I assumed that it was BM-ChronX-Gorgon. But, by claiming this weird result, he knows that in lylo, by spinning the town against Gorgon, it would be a scum-win.

6)HeH claims cop and has night results clearing BM. This alone doesn't ping the scumdar much. BM could certainly be a Godfather. The part that gets it is that only Gorgon and HeH said that they targeted BM on the night Raffles died. But, ChronX's weird claim against Gorgon shines the spotlight on HeH.

There it is.

Care to respond, guys?

[Battle Mage]

Secondly, after reading the whole BM-ChronX deadlock, I assumed three things:
1) My theory of ChronX/BM scum pair is probably not plausible.
2) BM is indeed an idiot.
3) One of ChronX, BM, and HeH is scum. ChronX is likely to be that scum. Why? Look no further, but this is constructed while I read, so do excuse me if I repeat others' opinions.

1. This is correct.
2. This is not only incorrect, but also completely unhelpful.
3. This is improbable. For a start, if i was scum, HeH would have to be scum (or a cop with sanity issues-in this case Distad would be scum). Gorgon would also almost certainly be scum (because its the only way i would have known that i was RBed). Oh and ofc, Chronx would have to be lying, because there is no way that Gorgon would target me at night IF I WAS HIS SCUMBUDDY.
Again, i CANNOT be scum in this game. It just doesnt work, because BM-scum implicates so many other people who would have to be scum aswell, and if i was scum, the game would already be over. :p
Now remember that i have an innocent investigation on Chronx. It would be VERY unlucky for me to have hit the Mafia GF in my only investigation, so this is a pretty strong case not to lynch Chronx yet. Later he confirmed himself in my eyes, by correctly claiming to track someone to me. Now we only have 1 claimed RoleBlocker, so assuming all protown players are telling the truth, we have at most, 1 protown RoleBlocker. Assuming Gorgon is the protown Roleblocker, Chronx-scum would have had no way of knowing that he targetted me, thus Chronx is 100% confirmed town if Gorgon is town. On the flipside, if Gorgon is a Mafia Roleblocker, Chronx can still be protown. So, fighting against those 0.01% odds of Chronx scum, i think we can trust him. Then ofc we have Gorgon, who's claim fits the bill pretty well. The really confusing thing here is that Chronx has to some extent countered Gorgon's action last night, by denying it being the case. Now aside from incredibly unlikely scenarios like flawed-Trackers, i think this could well mean that Chronx was Roleblocked last night. And not necessarily by Gorgon either. It is still possible for us to have a Mafia RoleBlocker and a protown RoleBlocker. We can confirm Gorgon as a RoleBlocker, but him being Mafia RB does kind of fit aswell. I mean, he could have thought that last night, if he blocked Chronx, he might have failed to get a result, and he could safely claim whatever he wanted. A potential slip-up perchance?

Again, i find it hard to believe, but it is a possibility nonetheless. Then we come to HeH, who's claim is highly suspect. He claimed an innocent investigation on me on the 2nd night, yet when i came forward and asked him the next day whether the nights actions had changed his view about me (i thought he was the RB) he said that he still considered me a suspect. When he had an innocent investigation on me? Inconsistency ftw! lol
He also claimed an innocent investigation on Distad, which i find very hard to believe. His motives have already been assessed as flawed, but i simply cannot see Distad as protown here. In fact, i think he would be a good lynch today, simply as the 'safe option'. I dont want to take a major gamble lynching a power role who could end upto be a mafia power role if we are incredibly lucky. Rather i find it better to lynch someone who has acted scummy throughout the game, and now is nearly guaranteed to be scum irrespective of the other members. The only thing in Distads favour is that his claim is one of the most reasonable in the game. He didnt claim another power role which is good, but then, it would be VERY foolish to under-estimate Distad's intelligence. He's a strong player, and i'm sure he could have realised that another power role claim could land him in alot of bother. I dont like the way he tried to half-softclaim vanilla early on either in an attempt to increase the validity of his claim. His pushing of ridiculous ideas today is perhaps a sign of panic.

Then we have SonicPulsar and Atticus. Both claimed Vanilla, both could be scum. Neither of them have given off strong scum vibes, and thus, i think we should leave both alone for today at least. Of course we will need to look at them at some point, but for now there are better options. Of the two, SonicPulsar looks way more protown to me.

So that leaves us with HeH and Distad. If Distad is scum, HeH is also scum, so we can kill 2 birds with 1 stone today if we lynch him. Equally if HeH is scum, we can say with some assurity that Distad is also scum. Hence i reccommend one of these 2 as today's lynch.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Hmm, i don't think that is by any means conclusive. As i said, Distad is a good player. And he is patient too. I'd be very surprised if he attempted a gambit there, when both you and Gorgon were online, and could unvote at any second. In case you hadnt noticed, Distad has been my my second scummiest person since Day 1. I was wrong about Gorgon, but i dont think i'm wrong here. Of course, as i think we can be sure that HeH and Distad have the same role, i'm ok with lynching HeH today, and Distad tomorrow.

I dont understand your last comment. I hope it isnt an insinuation that i could be scum, when i have proven that to be impossible, 2 posts up.
Plus, even if i was scum, i actually dont see why it would matter whether i got a mislynch on a strong player or not. lol.

BM

I wholeheartedly disagree that Distad is the best lynch today. In fact, I think he is the WORST lynch today.

The MAIN reason for this is that at the time I voted BM, and Gorgon added his vote, Distad and HeH were both online. It would have been pretty easy for them to hammer if they were both scum. Unless they are both scum and there isn't a third, which I think is probably unlikely.

Nothing in BM's claim involves him with results on Distad, yet he has been pushing a Distad lynch hard. He even tried to set him up as a "lurker" at the start of this day.

it would be VERY foolish to under-estimate Distad's intelligence. He's a strong player

Could this be why the push on Distad?

[Battle Mage]

WHAT. THE. HELL!?
omfg. This game is confusing the heck out of me. Now NOBODY is confirmed. I don't trust Chronx anymore, and he could well be the Mafia GF. If that was the case, why would he retract his lies now?
I'd say atm, Gorgon is the closest thing (apart from me) to a confirmed innocent, we have. We know at least that he is a RoleBlocker, and thus, he is a bad lynch for today. If Gorgon is Mafia Roleblocker, we can be pretty sure that Chronx is the other scumbag, but again, we can look at that tomorrow if necessary. Now i think Distad is a good play still.

[Battle Mage]

Well, at least I got the ChronX part right. Even if only that he was lying about being tracker. (LAL?) At least that evens the balance a little.

In looking back, I think I overstepped a little on my theory. It doesn't seem super likely that HeH is scum. No one else has claimed cop, and it seems reasonable that there would be one.

BM's biggest problem with my theory was that there couldn't be 4 scum. Well, leaving HeH out, ChronX/BM/Gorgon as a trio still works. That would mean that BM is the Godfather.

I have to sort this all out in my head. I'll be back later tonight.

ah i kinda see what you mean now. But this theory is entirely dependant on me being a Mafia GF, and Gorgon being Mafia RB.
Having said that, now Chronx has retracted his Tracker claim, a Cop is far more likely. I expect SPAG to put 1 investigative role in (excluding JoAT). That means Distad and HeH are confirmed town. Wow, this game is crazy. That means 1 of Gorgon/Chronx has to be scum. Chronx can only be a GF, and Gorgon can only be a Mafia RB. Atticus or SP must be the final scum in this scenario.
I'm just finding this whole game incredibly confusing atm..

BM

[Battle Mage]

Actually this by Gorgon is a lie. I claim i was RBed before you claimed implicitly that you RBed me. You and HeH claimed to target me, after which i claimed i was RBed. Plus i breadcrumbed before this. Dammit, why does your post give me such a protown vibe when your suspicions seem so damn insane.

Again, why? Remember that I said I roleblocked BM, and

then

he came out and said he was roleblocked. If he's lying about his role and night actions, there is, again, nothing that implicates me.

For a start, if i was scum, HeH would have to be scum (or a cop with sanity issues-in this case Distad would be scum).

Or you could be the godfather. You left that out.

Gorgon would also almost certainly be scum (because its the only way i would have known that i was RBed).

Again, you only said you were roleblocked after I said I roleblocked you ...

---

Right now, my first instinct is to lynch ChronX as a liar who has, along with BM, dragged out this day unnecessarily. I believe his gambit brought the town nothing other than wasted time and greater confusion, even though he thinks it worked brilliantly. Now, 3 days from the deadline, we have little else than a few claims, one of them fake.

However, I'm having a hard time coming up with motivations for him to retract his claim as scum. He was in no particular danger, and retracting the claim greatly increases the risk of him getting lynched.

[Battle Mage]

Okay, I just actually read ChronX's latest post.

What I've done is caught you in a lie. I normally lynch all liars, but in 471, which I just finished modding, one the vanillas claimed watcher and then mason with another vanilla which who confirmed it which stirred up a whole lot of shit. I want to kill you, but now I'm worried of the results.

Now, BM, I retract calling you an idiot, and place that on ChronX.

Oh the irony. In a game atm, i'm lecturing newbs that LaL is a BS argument. Now i have the issue of whether i go against my instincts in order to stand by my own beliefs, or go with my gut, but fail to practice what i preach...

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ugh, sorry BM. I recalled incorrectly. You

did

say you were roleblocked before I said I was a roleblocker. It was only HeH who said he was roleblocked after I said I blocked him. This means that either you're some sort of protown scum role, or your claim is correct. Otherwise there is no way you could have known I blocked you that night, unless you were just guessing wildly, which is an unfair assumption.

Now, HeH says he has an innocent on you. If you are some sort of scum powerrole who can target people at night, this means you can't be the godfather as well, so HeH would be lying and is also scum. There is of course a possibilty that HeH is lying scum while you're innocent, but at least I can assume that if you're scum, HeH is scum as well ... and that if HeH is a real cop, then you're town.

Now, I agree that now that we know that ChronX is not a tracker, a cop is more likely. Also, fakeclaiming cop with two innocents seems kind of pointless to me, so I'm thinking HeH's claim is genuine. This clears you as well, BM.

So right now I think I can tentatively say that have two innocents on my list: BM and HeH. At least that's something.

a protown scum role? lol
oh and if you think HeH is town, you can add Distad to that list, unless you think he is a GF (which we dont know we have).

[Battle Mage]

christ, this game is frying my brain.
The only thing i can think clearly is that the term Prostitute, or Hooker, in Mafia is generally referencing a RoleBlocker of either affiliation, not necessarily scum. Oh yeah, and that HeH is hypocritical for not voting Gorgon when his analysis points solely in that direction.

[Battle Mage]

What I can't figure out, BM, is why you're pushing Gorgon so hard when ChronX totally played you on your recent claim, pushing our time for FOUR days while he postured with you on who would claim first, and then he finished it with a total BS claim. If your claim had been different, would he have run through his gambit? I mean, if you're not scum, how can you ride Gorgon so hard without even glimpsing at ChronX?

It just screams scumbuddies. Please tell me how I'm wrong, because I really want to vote ChronX.

err. wtf?
since when did i push Gorgon?
you don't mean the time i said he was the most protown player here, by any chance?
please go find your brain, then come back and post. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Oh yeah, and that HeH is hypocritical for not voting Gorgon when his analysis points solely in that direction.

That is asinine. I'm not voting for Gorgon because we're in LYLO and if I'm wrong we could lose. Due to the severity of voting incorrectly, I'm not ready to commit to anyone just yet. He's my #1 candidate at the moment and there's a good chance I'll vote for him. But I want to think everything through first so I don't give the scum a chance to quicklynch. How is that hypocritical?

One other note. I've been assuming there is a Godfather in the game. If there is not, then this is easy. We've got 5 dead townies. I make 6 and I've got an innocent on BM and distad, which makes 8. BM has an innocent on ChronX, which makes 9 townies. That leaves Gorgon, Atticus and Sonicpulsar as the Scum. However, I don't think that is the case. That arrangement would give us 5 power roles -- Cop, Doc, 2 Masons and JoAT -- versus scum with only 1 power role -- Roleblocker. That seems too unbalanced in favor of the town, even for a speed game. Therefore, I think it is extremely likely we have a Godfather in the game.

this is true. Also, i find it exceptionally unlikely that there would be a Mafia RB without a GF, when GF is so much more common.
But, point taken about the hypocrisy comment. I guess i was just surprised at you not voting, when your analysis indicated CERTAINTY that Gorgon was scum.

@Chronx-in games i mod, any mafia member can submit the kill. This generally seems to be the rule, but there are some exceptions.

SP's analysis is intriguing, but i feel, not very relevant to me personally. For a start, it makes a lot of assumptions that i feel are way 'out of the ball park', as you American scumbags say.
HeH made an interesting point in response, which i think is very valid. Cop, Doc, Masons would normally be balanced with 3 normal scumbags. Add in a Jack of All Trades, and you start to require mafia powerroles. Of course, i'm not going to try and second guess SPAG here, but it does make a Mafia RB seem like a possibility. It would also explain why this is a Mini Theme game, rather than a Mini Normal. Other than Mafia poweroles, this game could run as a mini normal amirite?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Ok, i've given this some thought at College today, and i'm pretty sure that we can trust Distad and HeH. The only way i can feasibly see either as scum, is if they are in a scumtrio with Chronx.

That leaves 4 suspects (discounting myself obvobv)

Gorgon
SonicPulsar
Chronx
Atticus

Now when i considered the setup, i came to the opposite conclusion of HeH. I felt that with a Doc and Cop, there is often an RB. Mafia RB could be way too tricky in a mini game. Other than JoAT, those are all pretty typical protown power roles. At worst, i'm willing to give Gorgon the benefit of the doubt for now.

That leaves Chronx, Atticus, and SP. The latter 2 have been pretty much non-entities with respect to the whole claim-controversy.
Chronx seems like a good play, simply because virtually every concievable scum combo has him at the forefront. But there is a niggling feeling in my gut which tells me that he is a bad play. It could simply be because, if i'm wrong, i'm going to get a whole lotta stick post-game for lynching someone who i had an innocent investigation on, and thus would be mathematically less likely to be scum than anyone.

So, today i'd like to kill either Atticus or SP. I'm certain that 1 of them is scum, and both is a possibility. I'm easy as to which one we kill, but i think they would be the safe option today.

Thoughts?

[Battle Mage]

I thought speed made it theme.

i'm not sure. Ima check with the list mod now.

[Battle Mage]

ok then, i think i'm willing to go with Chronx. The whole inter-mafia group bussing we seem to have going on strengthens my suspicions.

[Battle Mage]

woah, hold the phones people. I have confirmation that Speed Games do not have to be mini themes. As such, there must be something else about this game which makes it a theme game. Either it is the JoAT, which means that this evidence is null and void, or it could be a Mafia RoleBlocker, which means that Gorgon is scum.
Please hold voting for a couple hours to see if i get a response.

BM

[Battle Mage]

I suppose I don't count if I have an objection?

Distad, your logic is stupid. Blame BM for who he wasted his

alleged

protection on, not me. I urged the CORRECT play with regard to handling the masons. Also, everyone seems to have completely/conveniently forgotten that CKD was giving off more scum vibes than Roach (we've all been in games with Roach, right?).

The reluctantly OK, we'll go for the mason bandwagon crowd is MUCH more suspicious than me; I was pushing for a claimed-mason lynch all along. Why would I do that as scum? Try to answer without resorting to an acronym crutch, you are already abusing LAL.

Chronx-do me a favour. Don't blame the rest of us for your mistake. And no, i dont even mean the false claim itself. I mean the fact that you confessed at such a ridiculously inopportune time.
If you're town, there will be discussion on this at the end.

[Battle Mage]

BM, could the theme be 2 Mafia, alternating NKs?

where did you pull this idea from?
@Gorgon- i now have confirmation from the Mini List Mod that roles such as JoAT are acceptable in small doses, and that a Speed game is not necessarily themed. I await confirmation on the Mafia RB question, but i'm feeling less happy with Gorgon atm.

[Battle Mage]

HeH - I just finished a game where the serial killer was told that there were multiple cops in the game so that he could use it as a safe claim.

Occam's razor is great... unless it's a theme game where anything really could go.

I do think your logic of Gorgon holds up, though, assuming that no one (other than ChronX) has been misleading.

do tell (for the newbs like me) what Occam's razor is while i await a reply to my question.

[Battle Mage]

I'll be on before deadline tomorrow evening hopefully. will post then.

[Battle Mage]

I can still SP acting peculiar. I think we might be safest with a

Vote: SonicPulsar

today. I'll be on before deadline if this needs changing btw.

[Battle Mage]

I can still SP acting peculiar. I think we might be safest with a

Vote: SonicPulsar

today. I'll be on before deadline if this needs changing btw.

Care to elaborate? I think there's a fair consensus that most people think either I or Atticus are scum. The fact that he's lurked most of this day makes me question how you can be so sure of me.

I think there's a good chance either SP or Atticus is scum, but in my mind it's a coin flip between the two of them so I don't think it's wise to lynch either yet when it could cost us the game.

See, I don't understand this. There are way too many scenarios where he (Sonicpulasr) is not scum and we'd lose.

Moving on, I agree with Distad.

I don't think an Atticus lynch could or should happen.

Chronx is next on my list as most likely scum.

Vote: Chronx

Given the various scenarios I have come up with and others have, I think he's our best bet. I still think it unlikely (although possible) that Gorgon is a mafia roleblocker. In other words, I think the chances of Chronx turning up scum is greater than Gorgon.

Wow, backtracking.

HoS: SP

Unvote, Vote: Chronx

I've had a think, and this seems to be the safest policy. At least it ensures that we get a lynch anyway.

BM

[Battle Mage]

LMAO....crossposted.

I'm lynched. I'm vanilla town. I'll have to sneak my laptop into my management meeting to see if game is over or not.

shit, you'd better be kidding me.

In any case, the game isn't QUITE over yet. We still have a slim chance of pulling things back during the night, as long as we stop the scum from killing somehow.

[Battle Mage]

i hope so. I actually really care about winning this game atm. :p

[Battle Mage]

Wow -- go out for a meeting and come back to this. Since I really am town, unless there was a bussing (which seems unlikely) I'm sure ChronX is town. It seems pretty likely that SP, BM and Gorgon are the scum due to how quickly their votes followed one another. Looks like this is the deal:

Here’s scenario two (BM is the GF and distad is innocent based on my investigation):

Town:
=Confused= (Doctor)
d3sisted I (Vanilla)
Raffles (Vanilla)
Curiouskarmadog (Mason)
d3sisted II (Mason)
Hang ‘em High (Cop)
distad (Vanilla)

Two of

Atticus

, Sonicpulsar or

and ChronX (Vanilla)

Scum:
Gorgon (Roleblocker/Prostitute)
Battle Mage (Godfather)

One of Atticus,

Sonicpulsar

or ChronX

(Goon)

lol i was sanarthed. oh, and i'm confirmed innocent on an infinite number of levels.

[Battle Mage]

A bad day for the town, turns into an even worse night. Sonicpulsar is given the orders from his Godfather Distad to kill an innocent, Gorgon is sent to deny Battle Mage the chance to be a hero.

Sonicpulsar has no trouble in dispatching Hang em High, he reveals he was . . .

Hang em High, Cop, Town Aligned - killed ruthlessly

Sonicpulsar swiftly met back with his comrades and with little hesistation they moved quickly to the meeting hall to confront and overpower Battle Mage and Atticus, the mafia had won!!

Battle Mage, Jack of all Trades, Town Aligned - endgamed

Atticus, Vanilla Townie, Town Aligned - endgamed

The victors -

Distad, Godfather, Mafia Aligned
Gorgon, Roleblocker, Mafia Aligned
Sonicpulsar, Mugger, Mafia Aligned

GAME OVER.

damnit. As it happens, me vigging should have been the last of the scum's worries of late-the only way we could possibly have won last night is if Gorgon somehow forgot to Block me, and i managed to redirect the scum NK onto the culprit. I figured Gorgon wouldnt do the deed, and it was out of Atticus and SP. I chose Atticus, so Gorgons block was really irrelevant in the end. By the end of the game, Distad wasnt even on my suspects list.

I'm a bit annoyed that we lost this game, because i feel that, barring the strange claims, and complicated roles, we ought to have won. Distad and Gorgon were my top suspects from the very beginning, although Sonic avoided my suspicion very well, so kudos for that. I hate to say it, but had Chronx not claimed Tracker, or had Gorgon not been lucky enough to RoleBlock me, i would have vigged either Distad or Gorgon for sure. Unfortunately, the excess of power role claims proved to be more of a detriment to the town than a help.

As far as Chronx's fakeclaim goes, i dont think he should get stick for it. In fact, as someone who lies as town on a regular basis, I reckon, if you're anything like me, you can see a logic for your play which nobody else can. I'm willing to trust your judgement on that. The thing that really hurt us was not the claim itself, but the timing of your confession. It couldnt really have been any worse as far as i can see. You would've been far better off simply keeping up the lies at that point.
Anyway, you learn from your mistakes i guess.

I'm also glad that i had Distad pegged for most of the time (until the last day really). Revenge for the fact that he finds me so damn easy to read.

I'm ashamed about the whole lynching CKD thing, but tbh, we werent left with alot of choice. It was either lynch someone who was probably town, or trust him implicitly, and lose the game with 2 consequtive mislynches. There was no middle-ground, something i'm pleased to see that CKD recognises.

I stand by the statement that LAL is the biggest heap of crap ever.

Oh and as it hasnt been brought up yet, i did lie slightly about my role. I didn't have 1 shot NK immunity-i just invented it in the hope that it stopped the scum from targetting me. :p
Ooi-did you guys buy that aspect of the claim?

BM

[Battle Mage]

Could someone explain to me what insanity possessed you guys to

lynch

CKD?

probably the fact that our combined arrogance (me and CKD(mainly him)) ensured that it was 1 of us that had to go down. I dont regret the decision atall-it was either stop the distraction or lose the game automatically. Besides, until CHronx's fakeclaim, i could have protected his mason buddy anyway, and stopped the NK, so we would have had a legitimately confirmed townie. :p

[Battle Mage]

But... looking purely from logistic grounds, it's stupid. You lynched a (as good as) confirmed mason...

err hardly. how do you even come up with this stuff?

Chronx i knew BWing you was risky, but i was sanarthed (cant spell) by 2 other people. I didnt intend to hammer or whatever so early. Besides, it was hard to let your play go, when it was impossible to explain it as protown.

Player of the game should uncategorically go to SonicPulsar. All the scum did well in the end, but his play through the early parts of the game was astoundingly protown.

BM

[Battle Mage]

A bad day for the town, turns into an even worse night. Sonicpulsar is given the orders from his Godfather Distad to kill an innocent, Gorgon is sent to deny Battle Mage the chance to be a hero.

Sonicpulsar has no trouble in dispatching Hang em High, he reveals he was . . .

Hang em High, Cop, Town Aligned - killed ruthlessly

Sonicpulsar swiftly met back with his comrades and with little hesistation they moved quickly to the meeting hall to confront and overpower Battle Mage and Atticus, the mafia had won!!

Battle Mage, Jack of all Trades, Town Aligned - endgamed

Atticus, Vanilla Townie, Town Aligned - endgamed

The victors -

Distad, Godfather, Mafia Aligned
Gorgon, Roleblocker, Mafia Aligned
Sonicpulsar, Mugger, Mafia Aligned

GAME OVER.

damnit. As it happens, me vigging should have been the last of the scum's worries of late-the only way we could possibly have won last night is if Gorgon somehow forgot to Block me, and i managed to redirect the scum NK onto the culprit. I figured Gorgon wouldnt do the deed, and it was out of Atticus and SP. I chose Atticus, so Gorgons block was really irrelevant in the end. By the end of the game, Distad wasnt even on my suspects list.

I'm a bit annoyed that we lost this game, because i feel that, barring the strange claims, and complicated roles, we ought to have won. Distad and Gorgon were my top suspects from the very beginning, although Sonic avoided my suspicion very well, so kudos for that. I hate to say it, but had Chronx not claimed Tracker, or had Gorgon not been lucky enough to RoleBlock me, i would have vigged either Distad or Gorgon for sure. Unfortunately, the excess of power role claims proved to be more of a detriment to the town than a help.

As far as Chronx's fakeclaim goes, i dont think he should get stick for it. In fact, as someone who lies as town on a regular basis, I reckon, if you're anything like me, you can see a logic for your play which nobody else can. I'm willing to trust your judgement on that. The thing that really hurt us was not the claim itself, but the timing of your confession. It couldnt really have been any worse as far as i can see. You would've been far better off simply keeping up the lies at that point.
Anyway, you learn from your mistakes i guess.

I'm also glad that i had Distad pegged for most of the time (until the last day really). Revenge for the fact that he finds me so damn easy to read.

I'm ashamed about the whole lynching CKD thing, but tbh, we werent left with alot of choice. It was either lynch someone who was probably town, or trust him implicitly, and lose the game with 2 consequtive mislynches. There was no middle-ground, something i'm pleased to see that CKD recognises.

I stand by the statement that LAL is the biggest heap of crap ever.

Oh and as it hasnt been brought up yet, i did lie slightly about my role. I didn't have 1 shot NK immunity-i just invented it in the hope that it stopped the scum from targetting me. :p
Ooi-did you guys buy that aspect of the claim?

BM

I bought it. I had no reason to not. Once we knew what your role was, though, we were RBing you from the get-go. I actually sent in the orders (RB you, NK HeH) within minutes of the hammer. There was no hesitation in it.

And our experience in past games is why I left you alive through the game. I specifically stated during N0 that I wanted to leave you alive and try to throw dirt on you throughout the day to get you lynched. Plus, I figured that you could get a good read on me and trust that I was vanilla.

My only concern was that I was defending Gorgon a bit. I felt that he was key to our winning, so I kept steering things away from him. I had a little bit more sway because I kept coming up innocent in investigations.

As for vigging us, when we NK'd =Confused=, SP got the doc powers for one night. We RB'd you, but SP protected Gorgon that night, as well.

I'd wager that Spag had more power roles mixed in there, but I certainly welcomed their turning into vanillas.

My last point was something that I mentioned to Theo. I didn't enjoy finding out that BM learned he was RB'd without having to burn one of his 'options'. I was going to be very unhappy if that ended up the turning point of the game.

I dont see how me thinking you were vanilla would be a good read in the slightest...
I reckon you were right to protect Gorgon alot-Mafia RB is awesomely powerful pre mass-claim. I've never encountered a Mugger until now, so i've learnt something too. :p

in fairness to Theo on the last point, he ended the night early because obviously my choice was irrelevant. He had to tell me what had happened at that point, or i would have been mad. Besides, when a JoAT gets RB'd what happens is open to interpretation. Some would argue that said 1 shot power would not be used up atall regardless.

actually SP the reason i trusted you so much at the start was because you legitimately questioned my defence of Distad. Because i felt strongly that Distad was scum, your hard push on him gave me good vibes about you. Hence i put you nearly as confirmed town as Chronx at that point.

Something else of interest is the amount of talk we had about GF's. I wasnt sure at the time whether it was scum pushing a mislynch under misinformation, or a genuine scum slip-up. Either way it seems pretty interesting.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM had this game pretty much pegged; suspecting me and distad early and SP in the end. His trap against distad was also pretty devious, but events conspired against him. IF distad hadn't been the GF, and IF I hadn't blocked BM that night, it just might have worked. Too bad the rest of the town didn't follow along with him ... bad for the town that is.

If i had enough space in my Sig, this paragraph would totally go there.
As it goes, i really enjoyed playing with you, and i'm glad you turned up scum in a way-simply because it means i dont have to feel guilty about being harsh on you. lol
Interesting tactic of laying a guilt-trip on me btw. It sort of worked a bit. But tbh, your play got markedly better as the game went on, so i think you can be pleased with how you played.

Definitely look forward to playing with you again some time.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Surprisingly, no. In fact if i was voting for the scummiest behaviour, i'd have kept my vote on you for the deadline. But, as it happened, i felt like not no-lynching, and so it was out of Gorgon and Chronx. I chose wrong.

BM, did me calling you out on my vote have anything to do with your subsequent vote Chronx? I was hoping to somewhat bully you in to taking your vote off of me in hopes you'd vote for Chronx. If you'd happened to jump on the Gorgon bandwagon, I was gonna have to figure out a way to get the attention away from him. In fact, I think Distad had the same idea. We needed the RBer too much.

As for my mugger role, it was damn near useless. The Doc protection on N1 was nice, but turned out not needed. Other that the Doc, the only useful ability I could have acquired was your JoAL stuff. But it was told that I had only one night to use my acquired abilites or they were lost.

Also, the fact I was a mugger and we had a RBer helped make me believe the Tracker claim since the same goon would be doing the NKs and another would be RBing every night.

@Distad- actually, it was only 1 night when i made those pbpa's (a sly attempt with the main purpose of breadcrumbing my result on Chronx). So i couldnt have investigated both of you. I can't actually remember why i felt you were scum, but i remember feeling very strongly about it. If i get time, i'll reread your early play and show you the inconsistencies i found.

@Raffles-i dont really understand what you are saying. But as far as your opinion on our play goes, i disagree. we did what had to be done.
I still don't understand how Chronx seemed to know there was a GF in the game. I mean, mathematically speaking, with 1 GF out of 3+ scumgroup, someone with a confirmed innocent investigation is going to be less likely to be scum than somebody who hasnt been investigated atall. We should have realised that with Chronx (which is as much my fault as it is anyone's)

still i'm pleased to see that my scumdar is working ok these days. lol

BM

[Battle Mage]

Well if you were going to lynch a mason, you could have at least chosen less helpful of the two... like Mr. PiGG.

were you even playing this game?

[Battle Mage]

BM if you want to improve your posting, don't post content that makes others shirty with you.

I wasn't really reading after day 1. I do sort of have a better things to do with my life than reading up on the thread that I'm dead and can't post in. I know Pigg was replaced after day 1 by d3sisted, but still replacing in doesn't start you with a clean sheet.

in that case, it'd be awfully nice if you didn't post criticisms of our play which, had you been in the game for longer, you would realise are invalid. Yes, i can sometimes be a bit confrontational, but i HATE repeating stuff that to me, is obvious.

Sorry if i hurt your feelings.

BM

[Battle Mage]

actually SP, i dont think going all out to save Gorgon was a great plan. much as his claim fooled me, you were pretty much in the clear. Because we had 3 days of LyLo, it would almost certainly have come down to a choice between you and Atticus as the lynch, even if we got Chronx and Gorgon, and i expect you'd still have clinched the win.