Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:55 am

Post by Battle Mage »

omfg. Do we have a psychiatrist in the house? Anything to sort this guys paranoia...

The answer to both those questions is YES.
Yes i DID think a cop claim might be a good idea. And YES, i was being misrepresented by others. You see, it was AFTER i had commented on the post by Chronx, that people started jumping on me for 'trying to force a cop claim'. That is misrepresentation, because i had already retracted those previous comments about a cop claim being the obvious move.

Is there anything else? Because i honestly dont mind answering questions if it helps reassure you. What i dont like doing, is having to respond to the same flawed arguments over and over again, because 1 player in particular feels that they know better than the rest of the town, and have managed to spot something incredibly important. Then this player presents what can at best be described as circumstantial suspicion, as fact. I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.
Please, if you are town, engage brain before jumping to conclusions. :roll:

BM
curiouskarmadog wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome... :roll:

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.
Battle Mage wrote: Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM
I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:57 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Back with a vengeance. Gimme a sec and I'll catch up with on I don't already have.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:08 pm

Post by theopor_COD »

d3sisted replaces Mr.PIGG effective of now.
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:38 pm

Post by d3sisted »

Damn. At first I thought I was falling into this awesome role, until I found out CKD already blew our cover on the first day.

I'm going to be looking into the players that were on my wagon in the beginning, jumped over to PiGG's wagon, then jumped back onto mine as I feel that was a scum attempt at latching back onto a lost cause trying to rekindle the storm.

Anyway, out of all the votes on me, sonicpulsar's protrudes the most.
sonicpulsar wrote:His lack of a defense is just inexusable considering his circumstances.
I mean really, how can you say my lack of defense is scummy when I'm on V/LA?
Sorry guys, school + wrestling work is killing me,
unvote

Raffles: Whole vote on the guy before you was to get him to talk. He was lurking a bit so I wanted to pressure him into talking about his vote cause I thought it wasn't random. But mostly it was a pressure vote.

I'd like to hear more from the replacements especially for apathy before I make another vote.

Right now I think the seven pages we have are rubbish and really arn't gona help. Maybe when the replacements get here we will have some better posts.
Sorry for missing the blatantly obvious, but could someone tell me how this constitutes a breadcrumb? I'm still kinda new to the whole concept.
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:15 am

Post by Gorgon »

Welcome back from the grave, d3sisted.
d3sisted wrote:Sorry for missing the blatantly obvious, but could someone tell me how this constitutes a breadcrumb? I'm still kinda new to the whole concept.
The (supposed) breadcrumb is this:
MR.PiGG wrote:I'd like to hear more from the replacements
especially for apathy
before I make another vote.
Since Apathy was ckd's predecessor, and thus MR.PiGG's mason partner, the theory is that he was emphasising this special relationship.

Anyway, with regards to BM's supposed rolefishing. It looks to me like it's one of those things that got blown way out of proportion. I believe BM explained himself adequately, and I don't see this as something that BM should be lynched over.

ckd, do you have any other reasons than this to suppose BM is scum?
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:53 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

Battle Mage wrote:omfg. Do we have a psychiatrist in the house? Anything to sort this guys paranoia...

The answer to both those questions is YES.
Yes i DID think a cop claim might be a good idea. And YES, i was being misrepresented by others. You see, it was AFTER i had commented on the post by Chronx, that people started jumping on me for 'trying to force a cop claim'. That is misrepresentation, because i had already retracted those previous comments about a cop claim being the obvious move.

Is there anything else? Because i honestly dont mind answering questions if it helps reassure you. What i dont like doing, is having to respond to the same flawed arguments over and over again, because 1 player in particular feels that they know better than the rest of the town, and have managed to spot something incredibly important. Then this player presents what can at best be described as circumstantial suspicion, as fact. I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.
Please, if you are town, engage brain before jumping to conclusions. :roll:

BM
curiouskarmadog wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome... :roll:

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.
Battle Mage wrote: Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM
I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!
first of all BM, do not threaten me. if you think I am scummy vote for me. But I know you wont. I think you know I am a town, thus know I must be a mason. There is no way in hell that you want your vote anywhere near me if I somehow get lynched and come up Mason...so your keep your idle threats to yourself scum.

next, I didnt misrepresent you. I stated I didnt like the fact you were looking for the cop, because you indeed were, until someone said it was a bad idea. You have been playing a long time BM, you should know that in this case at this point it is a bad idea.

Gorgon, It is BM's play all game, he seems to have his hand in or be part of almost everything scummy or suspicious that has occured in this game. From the set up "does anyone know Confused" until last page "the cop should come out".

AND AGAIN BM for the 3rd time...WHY DO YOU KEEP PROVIDING LISTS OF PEOPLE YOU THINK ARE TOWN OUT OF NO WHERE? No one asked for them, yet you keep telling us who you think is town. Again, why do you keep avoiding this question. I think you are just buddying up...seems to be working.
NO YOU'RE OVER DEFENSIVE
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:59 am

Post by Hang 'em High »

Sorry I haven't posted lately -- life's had me by the short hairs this week and has been pulling hard. Things should calm down by Monday so I'll definitely post then if not earlier.
There are two types of people in the world -- those who divide people into types and those who don't.

Note: I've got LA on weekends and in the evening.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:50 am

Post by Atticus »

Well, good, d3sisted is verifying CKD's claim.

Then, there are ten people left. Two have been verified as townie (I highly doubt there would be a mafia-townie in a game so weighted towards the scum). As I see it, there's a near 50% chance that anyone I pick will be scum.

Now Gorgon, I'm not saying that you are too townie. I'm saying that you seem to be
trying
to be too townie. This arouses my curiosity, and at this point, my suspicion.

Distad, I'm not sure what you're trying to convey to me. ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon all appear to be doing the same thing (in my opinion). I don't find it likely that they are all scum, but I believe Gorgon is. The other two I suspect for the same reasons, yes.
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:05 am

Post by distad »

Well, it's not bulletproof that they are town/masons. They could still both be scum combining for a gambit. That's just me playing devil's advocate. I still think it's legit.

9 people are left, not 10.

It's fine if you think ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon are doing the same thing. You might think that now, but you certainly didn't say anything about that in your analysis. You said that you 'said it before' that Gorgon was doing that. I'm trying to find out where.
distad wrote:Atticus - I'm wondering where that earlier post was where you claimed Gorgon was unhelpful in his posts... To an extent, I agree... but based on this more recent analysis (and given how LIGHT your posts have been, I doubt it was 5-6 pages earlier...), you're now accusing Gorgon of what you accused
HeH
of just one page ago...
Atticus wrote:Alright, if I had to kill 3 people right now, they would be ChronX, HeH, and Gorgon.

ChronX because he does post often, but it seems to me he rarely has his own opinions, or is actually scum-hunting.

HeH because, like ChronX, he posts often, but it's hard to see anything that's very hard-pressing.


Gorgon I just get a bad feeling from. Not sure why.

I know this really isn't much, but I believe the mason claim, I believe I know who the cop is, BM looks town, and distad appears very honest and unscumlike.
So, essentially, you're saying that you changed this opinion after the attack went onto HeH?
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 3:28 pm

Post by ChronX »

Unofficial Vote Count

Hang em High 2: Distad, ChronX
BattleMage 1: CuriousKarmaDog
Gorgon 1: Atticus

Not voting 5

Deadline 10/3 (? not sure of this)
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:02 pm

Post by Atticus »

Atticus in Post 172 wrote:Gorgon is very hard to read to me. He posts quite often enough, but as I think of it, there weren't too many actual opinions and not enough scumhunting going on. But of course, he's knew, so I don't know him, and I can't tell if this is what he would do regardless of alignment or whatever.
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:14 pm

Post by distad »

Excellent. Thank you.
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I will likely be posting far less than I used to for personal/professional reasons.

* * *
Distad's Law: No posting after 7 drinks!
Open 36:
Um... I'm the champion of inebriated posting and I will challenge any comers to that.
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:42 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

OMG. I'm obviously arguing with the mayor of WIFOM-city here. A reasonable question to ask you would be, why do you keep having to state that i am unequivocably scum, and you are unequivocably town. I dont 'know' you are a mason. Frankly i think we may have to lynch you at some point, simply to test your claim. If you are becoming a deliberate detriment to the town, it might be better to do this sooner rather than later, if only so we can concentrate tomorrow.
Not only this but i hate the WIFOM of 'dont vote for me or everyone will know you are scum'. Please, just grow up. If you keep talking crazy, people are going to wonder about your alignment. You're right-i'd hate to lynch a mason today, when we could be lynching almost certain scum, but its you, not Pigg/Desisted, who is giving me doubts about the claim.

Ok, at last i can respond to something reasonable. Speaking from my PoV, in this game alone, i dont think a request for a cop claim is completely unreasonable. Were it not for the possibility that we have a GF, i would STILL be pushing for a cop-claim if the cop could confirm the claimed masons either way. However Chronx comments put that into proportion, and currently, i no longer want a cop claim today.
But, other than that, i stand by my original comments. Don't use the whole 'you are experienced and should know better' argument against me, because it just suggests that you know something which we don't. Either you are breadcrumbing cop yourself, or you simply dont want a cop to come forward with a guilty investigation on you.

Hell, maybe i have been part of suspicious things, but thats mainly because i like to be involved in EVERYTHING. Nothing escapes my notice when i am posting prolifically (as i have been at points during this game).
I tackle things head on when i am town. Again, if you metagame me, you will see that clearly.

I dont really understand your last question-hence i havent answered it. If you are asking why i am giving comments on my opinions of players, the answer is that information on peoples opinions is the best method of catching scum. Hell, if you genuinely think i am scum, you should be grateful that i have given you such insight into my opinions.

Perhaps if you were town, you wouldnt just be happy with lynching the player who has been most free in giving information. If you were town, you would look at other possibilities and realise that i am not the best play for today by a long-shot.

BM
curiouskarmadog wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:omfg. Do we have a psychiatrist in the house? Anything to sort this guys paranoia...

The answer to both those questions is YES.
Yes i DID think a cop claim might be a good idea. And YES, i was being misrepresented by others. You see, it was AFTER i had commented on the post by Chronx, that people started jumping on me for 'trying to force a cop claim'. That is misrepresentation, because i had already retracted those previous comments about a cop claim being the obvious move.

Is there anything else? Because i honestly dont mind answering questions if it helps reassure you. What i dont like doing, is having to respond to the same flawed arguments over and over again, because 1 player in particular feels that they know better than the rest of the town, and have managed to spot something incredibly important. Then this player presents what can at best be described as circumstantial suspicion, as fact. I'm finding it hard to keep making excuses for you CKD. If you continue this erratic and opportunistic behaviour, its going to be very tough for me to keep my vote off you.
Please, if you are town, engage brain before jumping to conclusions. :roll:

BM
curiouskarmadog wrote:
Battle Mage wrote:wtf? is it impossible for someone to change their mind around here?
I thought a cop claim was a good idea-then when Chronx made his point about a GF, i realised i was wrong.
IS THAT OK?
Wow, your behaviour is getting tiresome... :roll:

whoa what?…anybody just catch this back pedal? First he says that people are misrepresenting him by saying he wanted a cop claim. He then says.
Battle Mage wrote: Atm, i DONT WANT a cop-claim, but frankly, i dont think it would be unreasonable if i did, at the rate we are all claiming atm.

BM
I show is lie was what it is by posting two of his quote when he asks the cop to come out…NOW, he is saying he changed his mind..

Which is BM, did you change your mind (meaning you DID want the cop to come out) or were you misrepresented when people said you wanted the cop to come out.

Now he says I am the one rolefishing...what? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ASKED THE COP TO COME OUT, THEN LIED ABOUT, THEN BACK PEDALLED, then OMGUS FoSed me, bad bad play

Caught you scum.

I want to hear comments on this!
first of all BM, do not threaten me. if you think I am scummy vote for me. But I know you wont. I think you know I am a town, thus know I must be a mason. There is no way in hell that you want your vote anywhere near me if I somehow get lynched and come up Mason...so your keep your idle threats to yourself scum.

next, I didnt misrepresent you. I stated I didnt like the fact you were looking for the cop, because you indeed were, until someone said it was a bad idea. You have been playing a long time BM, you should know that in this case at this point it is a bad idea.

Gorgon, It is BM's play all game, he seems to have his hand in or be part of almost everything scummy or suspicious that has occured in this game. From the set up "does anyone know Confused" until last page "the cop should come out".

AND AGAIN BM for the 3rd time...WHY DO YOU KEEP PROVIDING LISTS OF PEOPLE YOU THINK ARE TOWN OUT OF NO WHERE? No one asked for them, yet you keep telling us who you think is town. Again, why do you keep avoiding this question. I think you are just buddying up...seems to be working.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:45 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

oh and
Vote: Gorgon


Much as it is nice that you are defending me, it is the sad truth that i dont trust you one bit. I apologise in advance if you are town.

BM
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 2:51 am

Post by ChronX »

I am going to cast a L-2 vote on Gorgon because I think his play has changed since day 1. On Day 1 he was bandwagon crazy, voting BM (random), then d3sis, Mr Pigg, Heh for the specifically stated intention of a bandwagon even though he said in the same post he was pretty sure he wasn't scum, SonicP, d3sis, Mr Pigg and ultimately...didn't have a vote registered at the deadline.

Today, he has gone 180 on HeH, pressuring him, and yet hasn't seen fit to vote yet.

His post 30, he declares himself a newbie as a way to excuse his erratic behavior, but he sure doesn't talk like a newbie since that post. He uses a lot of jargon, and he has several posts where he says things like "I was hoping no one would go down this path" or "This is surprising!".

unvote
VOTE Gorgon
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:59 am

Post by Sonicpulsar »

CKD, BM, quit bickering like school children. It's not good for the game.

I'm not seeing the case on Gorgon. Well, let me rephrase that, I'm not seeing the case on Gorgon compared to other people. Seems like others are acting similarly but arousing less suspicion (considering he's at -2 now). I totally understand the gut feeling that can be attributed some votes but I simply not seeing it here. Simply put, I don't think Gorgon is our best play today.

I'm still getting a scum vibe from Distad but apparently I'm the only one.

Atticus, if you're seriously going to go with things you said back at post 172, I'll have to re-examine your play.
d3sisted wrote:
sonicpulsar wrote:His lack of a defense is just inexusable considering his circumstances.
I mean really, how can you say my lack of defense is scummy when I'm on V/LA?
What the hell does V/LA mean?
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 7:30 am

Post by theopor_COD »

Vacation/Limited Access.

I'll sort out votecounts, update deadline asap.
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 8:41 am

Post by theopor_COD »

Gorgon (3) - BM, Atticus, ChronX
BM (1) - Curiouskarmadog
Hang em High (1) - Distad

Not committing - Gorgon, Hang em High, Sonicpulsar, Distad.

5 to lynch someone.

DEADLINE IS 5 DAYS AWAY
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:57 am

Post by Battle Mage »

I'm sure i was waiting on HeH to answer something...
Anyway, he gives me town vibes atm.
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Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:31 am

Post by d3sisted »

Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:06 am

Post by Battle Mage »

d3sisted wrote:Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX
I dont understand what you mean by that vote table. is that all votes cast over the course of the day or what? :?:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:48 am

Post by distad »

d3sisted wrote:Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX
Because I unvoted? That's crazy. You(1) acted very suspicious through most of D1 and then your(2) predecessor had been acting weird/lurking before throwing out a HUGE curveball.

This is just OMGUS.
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:26 am

Post by Atticus »

In all honesty, distad, he is no longer d3sisted. He is Mr PiGG's replacement. He knows now that d3sisted was a townie. Anyone who was voting him should be a bit suspect. I think.
"There is nothing more exhilarating than to be shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:18 am

Post by d3sisted »

distad wrote:
d3sisted wrote:Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX
Because I unvoted? That's crazy. You(1) acted very suspicious through most of D1 and then your(2) predecessor had been acting weird/lurking before throwing out a HUGE curveball.

This is just OMGUS.
It's called wishy-washy. You should know this.

@BM: Those are all the votes cast near the end of the day. Basically I was looking at who jumped back and forth between wagons as the focus shifted between me and Mr.Pigg.
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[color=red][b][i]V/LA Dec 22 - Jan 4[/i][/b][/color]
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:28 am

Post by curiouskarmadog »

d3sisted wrote:
distad wrote:
d3sisted wrote:Here's the end-of-D1 vote analysis I promised...

Player: vote

Gorgon: d3sisted, MrPigg, unvote
Distad: MrPigg, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted, unvote, d3sisted
Sonicpulsar: MrPigg, unvote, d3sisted
ChronX: d3sisted, MrPigg
Atticus: d3sisted
HeH: d3sisted
BM: Gorgon

From that, I'm seeing Distad, Gorgon, Sonicpulsar as possible scum (in that order).

Another point of interest is ChronX's most recent vote on Gorgon. By my count, that is the fourth following/BW vote he has cast this game. That exceptionally suspic if you ask me.

FoS: distad, ChronX
Because I unvoted? That's crazy. You(1) acted very suspicious through most of D1 and then your(2) predecessor had been acting weird/lurking before throwing out a HUGE curveball.

This is just OMGUS.
It's called wishy-washy. You should know this.

@BM: Those are all the votes cast near the end of the day. Basically I was looking at who jumped back and forth between wagons as the focus shifted between me and Mr.Pigg.
I dont know how much you can trust that though, if I didnt know Pigg's alignment, I would have probably voted him myself.
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