Mini 490: Speed Mafia - GAME OVER.

[Sonicpulsar]

Thanks for joining us Theo, it's greatly appreciated.

Unvote

til I hear from the new guys.

[Gorgon]

Greetings to the new guys. Much thanks for helping to salvage this game.

I particularily like Raffles' contribution ... BM's NK ponderings never sat too well with me, at least not how they seemed to drag on.

Anyway, the player list would now look something like this:

Mr.PiGG

Battle Mage

YYCguy

Raffles

d3sisted

Hang ‘em High

Sonicpulsar

Honary Hitchhiker

Gorgon

SurveySays

ChronX

VampanezeHunter

Atticus

Antipathy

curioskarmadog

distad

Mr.PIGG has been gone for a while now, though. Hope he turns up soon.

[ChronX]

OK.

Raffles post is very well said, I too was getting dazed by all the WIFOMy (and somewhat pompous) metagame crap.

I don't like BM's distancing of the possibility of getting or not getting NKd; it seems he is setting up the WIFOM argument for when he doesn't. Beyond that, nothing suspicious enough to warrant a more formal declaration.

D3sisted is giving off a few scumtells. Vote hopping around, maybe looking for traction on someone. In post 148, he seems to be looking for a BM bandwagon to start: "Well I'd like to say it's a vote".

Defensive/sensitive...going after YYC for "faking" a die roll. Didn't react well to the pressure of accumulating a few early votes, including the reaction to YYC.

And bringing up the whole FoS/vote thing with Vampaneze when the game was still in random voting seems like trying too hard to show how hard they are working for the town.

vote d3sisted

for these reasons, plus he would have been my random vote if I had been around for that, due to having a name too similar to Distad

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok…rereading now…taking notes as I go.

We lost the damn doc..


Making my own list so I know who replaced who.
Mr.PiGG
Battle Mage
Raffles, YYCguy
d3sisted
Hang ‘em High
Sonicpulsar
Honary Hitchhiker Gorgon
ChronX, SurveySays
Atticus, VampanezeHunter
CKD, Antipathy
distad

Page 1. Random votes, OMGUS votes, conversation about Confused, Foses…not much there.

Page 2. More random and OMGUS votes. Useless conversation about dice roles. Semi-useless conversation about the NK (but you got to start somewhere), some overstating (mostly by BM). Noticing the lurkers.

Post 36: BM hopes that someone will protect the more experienced players. (this post does not sit well with me, if there is anyone else alive that would/could protect, almost seems like BM is directing their decision, why?)

Post 37: ha, Gorgon mirrors my thoughts.

Post 38: granted I have not played with BM that often, but this is another strange post. Takes it upon himself to tell the town how to read him.

As a rule, i survive alot longer as scum than as town, because for some reason, people just fail at reading me. Generally, if i look really scummy, i am town, and if my play is pretty clean, i'm probably scum.

almost wish I had time to metagame the imfamous BM to see if this is true or not.

Post 41: BM’s discussion about why he is still alive.

Post 43: HeH, feels that BM is misrepresenting him.

Page 3. Lots of voting and unvoting..but not too much else.
Post 52: d3sisted, thinks that HeH is grasping at straws when mentioning confused and d3sisted in the same game. (did HeH ever make an acquisition? I thought HeH was just having conversation with BM)

Post 55: Pigg joins the game, posts a mini PBP, thinks YYC faked a dice role.

Post 57: BM starts to pressure Vamp for lurking.

Page 4. conversation about not having a lot to say.

Post 78: D3sisted does not like Pigg’s play.

Post 80: Gorgon votes PIGG.

Vote count at this point.

.

Current Vote Count

Mr. Pigg 2 - Sonicpulsar, Gorgon
Battle Mage 1 - Hang 'em High
Gorgon 1 - d3sisted
Hang 'em High 1 - YYCguy
d3sisted 1 - Vampeneze Hunter
SurveySays 1 - Antipathy
YYCguy 1 - Mr.PiGG

----Deadline extension conversation----
----metagaming conversation: lurkers: bored vanillas or sneaky scum?---
---little conversation about the game---

Page 5

---replacement conversation---
---Theo enters the scene---

Page 6

---SPAG conversation---

Post 135: Distad votes me before I get a chance to say jack.

---Raffles votes BM---

Current page.

ChronX votes d3sisted…

Caught up…

Thoughts post to follow.

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

Theo, can we prod or replace Mr. Pigg too?

This game is hard to really judge at this point. out of 7 pages, if you take away random votes, useless conversation, replacement requests, replacements, and SPAG hating...you have 1-2 pages of real information.

General thoughts. I didnt like BM’s thoughts on why he is still alive, Confused, and the directing protections of another possible Doc. Do I think it is scummy?..ehhh..hard to tell.

I didn’t like Pigg’s comment about the fixing of a dice roll, do I find that scummy?…ehhhh.

I didn’t like d3sisted representation of HeH metagaming the confused/d3sisted game, but do I find that scummy?…ehhh. Seemed to me HeH was just giving information to BM about Confused. But I can see why d3sisted would attack it.

Personally I ame more concerned with the lurkers in the game. However, one of those lurkers is a guy I am replacing, so can I blame distad? No guess not…Guess I could ask why I got picked over the 3 other active lurkers…but really, there is no answer.

SO when is our deadline?

Think I will need to go back and seclude some posts and posters…don’t have the time now, but will tackle it in the next 24 hours.

[distad]

Unvote

My vote really was just to have fun with you, ckd. I've never played with Raffles before, so you won by default.

I would have loved Antipathy to contribute... at all... but we got exactly the WRONG group for a Speed mafia game (all the way up to the mod)!

[Battle Mage]

lol the first half of your post makes no sense to me. The second half of your post, i understand, so i will respond.

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).
Again, its a great way to get info from people. I personally feel that i learn a fair bit from that discussion. Perhaps if you reread those '3 pages of BS' with an open-mind, you will agree with me.

BM

Sigh... I should really start making Raffles' laws

1. When given the opportunity, people will always assume the most far-fetched than the obvious.

Are there any rules in this game regarding with "execute" command? No. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to allow for "daykill" as an answer but then if I wanted to daykill battlemage, then I'd obviously type

daykill

: Theopor_COD (sorry I meant SPAG, he's probably more evil)

What happening here is a little joke I'm playing with Battle Mage from the game Consulmaker. I would have waited for Battle Mage to respond but since we are pressed for time and evil d3sisted practically killed it anyway...



Now while speaking of Battle Mage and Raffles' 1st Law, I might as well level some accusation to get the party started. (Honestly guys, where are the beers??) Battle Mage, I thought you'd be more experienced than to throw the town around thick metagaming concerning now deceased =confused=. You and I both well know that N0 kill means jackshit, and most likely done at random to prevent exactly the metagaming of sort like this one. Incidentally, I'd like you to give me back my time for reading 3 pages worth of total bollocks while you lead the town on this matter. It looked to me like a scum-mage leading newbie town around on wild goose chase than any traces of scum hunting.

Vote: Battle Mage

[theopor_COD]

unvote

Theo, can we prod or replace Mr. Pigg too?

He's been prodded, he may not be aware things are moving again.

[Mr.PiGG]

Sorry guys, school + wrestling work is killing me,

unvote

Raffles: Whole vote on the guy before you was to get him to talk. He was lurking a bit so I wanted to pressure him into talking about his vote cause I thought it wasn't random. But mostly it was a pressure vote.

I'd like to hear more from the replacements especially for apathy before I make another vote.

Right now I think the seven pages we have are rubbish and really arn't gona help. Maybe when the replacements get here we will have some better posts.

[curiouskarmadog]

Sorry guys, school + wrestling work is killing me,

unvote

Raffles: Whole vote on the guy before you was to get him to talk. He was lurking a bit so I wanted to pressure him into talking about his vote cause I thought it wasn't random. But mostly it was a pressure vote.

I'd like to hear more from the replacements especially for apathy before I make another vote.

Right now I think the seven pages we have are rubbish and really arn't gona help. Maybe when the replacements get here we will have some better posts.

I assume when you say apathy you mean me (im the replacement)....going to do a closer look at some posters soon (next 24 hours).

[Raffles]

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).
Again, its a great way to get info from people. I personally feel that i learn a fair bit from that discussion. Perhaps if you reread those '3 pages of BS' with an open-mind, you will agree with me.

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

[theopor_COD]

Curious - I missed your earlier question regarding the deadline. It's in 9 days time. When I've got complete mod-powers everything will be updated on the front page.

[Atticus]

Hey guys, I will be reading and posting as soon as I can. Seems though we only have a little bit of time left. I'll try to post by tonight. Uh, my time.

[Battle Mage]

its all INFORMATION. I've been doing my bit to get the information. Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum. Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

I dont understand your second paragraph either, as it doesnt seem to make any sense with relation to my post. Could you please try and be a bit more understandable with your posting?

BM

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).
Again, its a great way to get info from people. I personally feel that i learn a fair bit from that discussion. Perhaps if you reread those '3 pages of BS' with an open-mind, you will agree with me.

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

[theopor_COD]

Ok guys deadline is in approximately 8 days time.

Front page has been updated.

I'm going to send prods shortly for those who need it.

Time waits for no man.

[Atticus]

Oh, jeez, I didn't realize there would be so much content in each post. Heh. May take longer than expected.

[Raffles]

its all INFORMATION. I've been doing my bit to get the information. Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum. Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

I dont understand your second paragraph either, as it doesnt seem to make any sense with relation to my post. Could you please try and be a bit more understandable with your posting?

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

Hey, I ate some pasta for dinner. That's still an information, the action is closely aligned to mafia, does this make me mafia? If you think so, lynch me.

Thing is, you don't have anything that you can serve to me on a dish as a useful information. Sure, I like the smell of roast chicken, but I'd rather you serve me the real chicken. The juicy stuff.

The second paragraph you are on about, is regards to this:

(except YOU it seems).

Go figure.[/quote]

[curiouskarmadog]

since we are all on a time limit we should all make a case against 1-2 people. If you currently have a vote on someone, maybe it could benefit the town to reinstate your case, we need to start talking or this Day 1 lynch will be completely random (more so than a usual Day 1 lynch). Going to go back and reread some points that struck me "funny" and will try to put up a case agianst someone in the next 24 hours.

[Gorgon]

Man ... I don't know.

Reading over, I think I'm agreement that there's not really all that much that's useful in the posts so far. BM seems to be the only one who thinks so, but who knows. Maybe he has an ace up his sleeve. He says this all this NK discussion might be useful 'later'. Now, this could be true, but what if he gets killed? What good will his info do then? He says that "Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum", but it seems he's the only one with any idea how one would go about doing this. I would prefer that people share any insights they have right away. Also, why would this info only be useful 'later'? Why not right now? What's your big secret, BM?

And oh, I could easily see this 'my info might be useful later' thing as a ploy to stay alive.

BM also says he doesn't understand this:

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

I think it's pretty clear to me. BM defended himself from Raffles' accusation that the BM-led NK discussion is distracting by saying that Raffles was the only one to base his suspicion on the NK convo. In this quote, Raffles replies to say that him being the first to offer an argument does not nullify it.

Also, I can point out that Raffles was, in fact, not the first to criticise BM on these grounds. It was distad:

Oh good lord...

Analyzing night moves is always WIFOMish. I learned that one in my very first game on here.

I am CERTAINLY not reading a different game for this.

Unvote, Vote: BM

for encouraging this completely fruitless pursuit.

So, if I have to point fingers, I'd say BM sticks out the most, for being way too confusing and distracting at times. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with his playing style, but it still bugs me. Do I vote him for it? I'm not sure. Not yet, anyway.

Also, Mr.PiGG (whom I seem to be voting for) is a little suspicious for ... well, his die roll accusation, mostly. Also he seems a little reckless in general. It's pretty weak, I know ...

[Battle Mage]

its all INFORMATION. I've been doing my bit to get the information. Later on, someone else can process it, and we have a good chance of using against the scum. Personally, this is one of the most informative early game stages i've experienced, and we have alot of potential to use this stuff later on.

I dont understand your second paragraph either, as it doesnt seem to make any sense with relation to my post. Could you please try and be a bit more understandable with your posting?

BM

Well name me where it has come I quote: VERY useful. Granted it can become useful much much later when we have exhausted everything, but even then an argument based on N0 metagaming WIFOM is not a strong case.

I find your attitude to rasing suspicions particularly dangerous. If no one else speaks the same pitch as I do, does that mean my argument is nullified? I damn well hope not. Does an argument only become verified when everyone else follows it in the same manner? If that's the case, scum would always win since they can voice their opinions in a co-ordinated manner.

Hey, I ate some pasta for dinner. That's still an information, the action is closely aligned to mafia, does this make me mafia? If you think so, lynch me.

Thing is, you don't have anything that you can serve to me on a dish as a useful information. Sure, I like the smell of roast chicken, but I'd rather you serve me the real chicken. The juicy stuff.

The second paragraph you are on about, is regards to this:

(except YOU it seems).

Go figure.

[/quote]

I hope your paragraph about food was an analogy. If not, you're starting to creep me out. lol

oh and that second paragraph doesnt make sense, because i dont think you really understood what i was meaning. Or at least, your response makes no sense in relation to what i originally said.

Oh and don't think the subtle move of suspicion towards me, has escaped my attention.

[Hang 'em High]

WARNING: Far-fetched hypothesis coming up.

Consider the following scenario. Battle Mage is scum and decides to try and use the N0 kill to not only deep-six a townie but to also cast suspicion on another townie. To do this, BM metagames to see if he can find any connection between two townies -- a grudge from another game, for example. While doing so, he discovers that =Confused= and d3sisted played together and that d3sisted made some complimentary comments about =Confused='s play. Bingo -- just what he was looking for.

He then NKs =Confused= and launches the trap by posting this:

has anyone here ever played with 'Confused' before?

And then later this:

my reason for asking about Confused, was simply that in a game like this, he seems a peculiar N0 kill, unless there was perhaps a grudge involved, or somebody had played with him before, and knew him to be a potent player.

The some sucker comes along (namely me) and takes the bait. Following BM's lead I metagame, find the connection between =Confused= and d3sisted and FoS the latter.

While it looked like his plan had worked, many people (including me) thought this was a pretty weak case and discussion about it died down pretty quickly. To get it ramped up again, BM posted this:

However, on the up side, i am very impressed with what you (Hang 'em High) seem to found with regard to Desisted. If you could post a link to where he complimented Confused, that'd be great.

in the meantime,

FoS: Desisted

He later wrote:

I was the first person to mention that there might be some significance behind the kill of Confused, over other new players. In my mind, it probably wasnt a gambit by the scum to cast suspicion on Desisted, mainly because, if it was, one of the mafia members would have mentioned it. Of course, this logic is only viable for me in particular, and i can see why you have your doubts, but you must realise, that from my point of view, and HeH's, what we have found MIGHT be significant.

Which basically describes the theory I'm presenting here and then dismisses it as a possibility by saying that scum would have brought it up. But maybe it is a valid theory -- and he's the scum who brought it up. Continuing the conversation, in a later post he wrote:

The meta-gaming with regard to Confused, was VERY useful. You must realise, that even if YOU dont believe that it was a valid policy, the comments made by people can be very insightful. It's a two-pronged sword as it were (also known as a fork).

Secondly, a N0 kill does not mean jack-shit. Commenting on kills can be WIFOM, but even then, nobody has yet cast the majority of their suspicion based on this convo (except YOU it seems).

First, let me say that I think the metagaming of the N0 kill could

possibly

have value; I definitely wouldn't go so far as saying it was VERY useful.

Now what does all this mean? Not much, probably. I warned you up front that it was far-fetched, but I still think there is a small chance that it is valid. I see three possible reasons for the N0 kill. One: d3sisted is scum and was impressed with =Confused='s play in an earlier game and decided to kill her off. Two: Battle Mage is scum and proceeded with the course of action I outlined above. Three: The N0 kill was random and we shouldn't read anything into it. I think the third case is by far the most likely. However, I do think there is a small chance that one of the other two possibilities are true, so I thought it was worthwhile to put them out there for consideration.

[distad]

I'm leaning more toward 3. '1' seems weak. '2' is weaker. I'm not as concerned with BM right now. I've recently played a couple of games where he was scum/lyncher in both, and I pinpointed him both times. I don't get the same read from him in this game. Further, if "scum would have brought it up", I find it hard to believe that *he* brought it up after saying that. He's far more careful than that.

That said, I don't have anything better at this point.

I'll put together a person-by-person breakdown later this evening (hopefully).

[Atticus]

Reading = done. What I wouldn't give to be a day-vig.

Anyways, what struck me as I read was Mr. PiGG's Person by Person analysis on what was it... page 2? I've seen plenty of scum, when feeling pressured in any way, post anything, whether it be true or not. Just a small thing to note, but it also made me laugh really hard when I read it.

Also, if Battle Mage tells the truth, he is scum to me. He looks like town. Which by his definition, means he's probably scum. (In Amazing Race Mafia, I thought he was town and ended up killing him, the tracker) Just a bit of light metagaming is what I have right now.

Gorgon is very hard to read to me. He posts quite often enough, but as I think of it, there weren't too many actual opinions and not enough scumhunting going on. But of course, he's knew, so I don't know him, and I can't tell if this is what he would do regardless of alignment or whatever.

Distad I'm seeing as town, simply because he doesn't seem to be heavily concerned about the game, but he manages to keep it in check.

Sonicpulsar is neutral to me.

And those are the people who stuck out in my reading.

[curiouskarmadog]

Jesus I am reading these posts looking for anything...anything at all to jump on. I like the creativeness of HeH’s post. He also seemed to be creative when metagaming and trying to link it to d3sisted. Is this scummy? Seems pretty ballzy if it is. Granted, he does say the BM theory is a stretch. That would make BM one hell of a player me thinks. I don’t know BM that well to make that interjection. Is it possible that BM set up that metagaming “trap”? yes. He did ask the question, prompting people if any one knew a connection. Another theory is that BM and HeH are scum together, BM set the ball, HeH spikes it…again weak. In a speed game a quick connection is important. However, during my read, I got the initial reaction that BM was just trying to start conversation, but again I don’t know. My theory is that in a speed game….scum would try to lurk (as best as they could) or post but not really have a lot of content. Like I said before, this game does not have a lot of content in general to go on. Having 4-5 replacements is not helping. It appears that all of the replacements have come in posting content.

We need to get discussion started…(again) maybe we should discuss if we had to vote today who would it be for. Since it is my suggestion, I will go first.

Top two:

If I had to vote..it would be on HeH…I think so far he has posted two stretchy scum theories to see if anyone will bite on them. I think the BM theory is more plausible than the d3sisted’s…. again, this is a weak case, but I have nothing to go on.

Next would be d3sisted. I think that anyone who is lurkerish might be scum trying to hang low. By my count, he has not posted much content in about 2 weeks. Again weak by itself…

[theopor_COD]

Alright guys I've got some news on the AWOL mod. One of his close mates posted this on another forum -

Hello guys,

I don't often post on the forums other than in the legends and in the mafia games, but I would just like to enlighten the situation with Sean, aka SPAG.

I'm afraid it's bad news. He was involved in a footballing accident during a match which resulted in him damaging his back. He is still currently in hospital and is partially paralysed from the waist down, though it's thought to only be temporary and through physiotherapy he should be able to be active again at some point.

He will be carrying on with PFF and Mafia when he gets back from hospital, but as you can guess he will have other priorities. I hope he has a speedy recovery.

Paul

Let's hope he's back soon.