Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Was that randomized or were the night actions in ?

Damnit, some of the 2 best players are out...cunning mafia.

Vote: Johhan

This guy always ends up lynched anyway, lol...

[Albert B. Rampage]

I believe it the NKs were done manually. The deadline to get night actions in was 2 hours, but the deaths were reported 43 minutes after.

[Albert B. Rampage]

• TCS is good at talking, but his strategy as pro-town is only average, based on the only game I've played with him.
  
  Battle Mage pretty much gets himself lynched all the time when he's pro-town.
  
  I don't know HackerHuck too well, but he doesn't seem to dig too deep.
  
  Johhan always gets himself lynched somehow.
  
  I haven't seen BBB, N9V, Haut Boy or Jack do anything spectacular either.

On the other hand, I've read through some successful games SpectrumVoid had played, and JDodge is a dangerous scumhunter, he talks himself out of many situations and has a pretty good read.

I don't have a very good read on the other players, but I've surveyed a few of their games very quickly. These are only my first impressions, and are by no means a rating scale.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hm, this is interesting~♥

Albert: I think Coron wanted to know who you thought might think they were good rather than who you think is good.

Johhan

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Albert: Well, the only game you saw me in, I was scum, and in a position to speed lynch (which I took.)

Also, JDodge and SV being good mafia players is probably why they were taken out. They could be big threats to the mafia, right?

Yes that is correct, you are right on both points.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Glrok: Why is MBL a bad boy?

That sounded kinky.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pardon me if I'm missing a lack of seriousness (as it is nearing 3:00 AM in my part of the world), but why are we depending on Glork when for all we know he could actually be scum~♥ I know there's that shiny "Paragon of Mafia Hunters" award, but really...

I believe it the NKs were done manually. The deadline to get night actions in was 2 hours, but the deaths were reported 43 minutes after.

Then why did you ask if it was randomized or not?

I gave it some thought, re-read the post, looked at the time, then posted my thoughts on the subject.

It would make sense for the post to come exactly 2 hours later if they were randomized.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Only average!

I'll show you average:

vote:Albert

lol sorry

I was being generous

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol i seem to be getting more and more games like this. i dont think Albert is anywhere near as scummy as some people here, so i wont wagon him to save myself.
what i will say is, once i am dead, ffs kill Guardian, Glork, and keep a close eye on HungryJoe too.
now hurry up and kill me. i DO hate a dragged out demise...

lol BM...every single game, eh ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

lol guys, c'mon, history has taught us that BM is always townie

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: HungryJoe

I'm uneasy with a BM vote, and the only other bandwagon is on me, so let's see if HJ can defend himself against Glork's arguments.

Maybe Glork can expand on HJ's behavior ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Woah woah.

That just makes 2 votes on HJ. What's wrong with applying pressure ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, true, but I disagree with the BM wagon, and obviously my own wagon.

I was looking for either a) a Johhan wagon or b) someone who is not TCS, as I'm getting a pro-town read from him.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why a Johhan wagon?

Inactive, and OMGUS-ing.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, true, but I disagree with the BM wagon, and obviously my own wagon.

I was looking for either a) a Johhan wagon or b) someone who is not TCS, as I'm getting a pro-town read from him.

This is a funny thing to say, but I get nervous when someone claims to get a pro-town read on me. So few people do, it's almost like they have knowledge of my alignment.

I know you find it suspicious. I know. I knew it when I said it.

Still that other thing you posted out of this thread makes me think your town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I did. But nobody else would, so I decided to apply pressure to someone else.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Never, ever, ever say a vote is temporary.

[Albert B. Rampage]

We are just at page 6, these are my initial impressions, that's all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

...so because they're just "initial impressions," they aren't worth pursuing?

Why ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've pursued Johhan, but because the evidence was nowhere near overwhelming, I go looking for more information, that's all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Heh. We seem to be having a fundamental breakdown in communication, Albert.

Why did you not pursue more information regarding

Johhan

and choose to go after somebody

who was being suspected by somebody else

?

Double-posted that last one.

I don't want to bandwagon, bandwagonning is the means I use to gain information, being the end.

Also, how can I pursue it if he is inactive...?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bah, I guess I'm not the worse lynch for today

[Albert B. Rampage]

HJ is very convincing.

Unvote, vote Glork

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah I do look suspicious, but I'm not scum. I do believe that Glork is suspicious too, so I vote Glork.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hmm...

I claim vanilla townie

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hmm...

I claim vanilla townie

It's better to get lynched than claim vanilla. FYI.

I agree. But its better to lynch mafia and have a vanilla than lynch vanilla and have mafia.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's better to get lynched than claim vanilla. FYI.

This comment seems to assume the accused is town.

FOS: TCS

BS.

Unvote, vote MBL

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's better to get lynched than claim vanilla. FYI.

This comment seems to assume the accused is town.

FOS: TCS

BS.

Unvote, vote MBL

What?

Even if you disagree his comment makes sense. For mafia it is clearly not better to get lynched than claim vanilla, So that comment indicates townieness. I disagree with MBL because you could still make that comment while being unsure of Albert's aligment, making the comment on the off chance he was town for example.

Your vote is poor.

Who are you talking to ? Rephrase that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

TCS's vote is on Albert.

If you think Albert is scum, then you don't tell him "u shuldnt claim vanilla", you tell him "BS". If you know Albert is town (because you're scum), you feel comfortable chiding him for being a townie who just made a bad play.

That makes slightly more sense.

Unvote

[Albert B. Rampage]

Er, sorry, newb alert, why is this? Getting lynched being better, that is.

Because if I claim townie and am not lynched, it makes it easier for scum to NK power roles.

If I am lynched, my claim would have been useless.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I greatly disapprove of YB's logic.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because my wording meant what it meant, your trying to distort what I say in such a fashion that will benefit you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Thread's kind of moved away from this earlier point by now, but I wanted to catch up and say the main reason you never claim townie is that townies are expendable. If you have no power, you lend your aid through a vote, but if you can't convince everyone, let yourself go.

Sure, it's not optimal, but it's day 1, do you really expect to get scum every time? Maybe you're all that much better than me, but...

Another thing is that while I do know most of the basic tells, I wonder if it's correct to assume that everyone knows the finer details about the differences between claiming townie/cop/doc/vig. That said, in this particular case, it's been mentioned that albert has played many games, so I figure

this was either a goof or an intentionally bad move (as in, I'm always actting scummy, now please ignore it).

My vote will stand on albert for quite some time, unless some really awesome evidence comes along.

Claiming townie is not scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Especially if your bandwagonned.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Especially if your bandwagonned.

Doesnt make much sense to me...

You don't make much sense. Why would I claim if I wasn't bandwagoned ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Especially if your bandwagonned.

Doesnt make much sense to me...

You don't make much sense. Why would I claim if I wasn't bandwagoned ?

It just seems like its a way of escaping..

A way that's not scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Especially if your bandwagonned.

Doesnt make much sense to me...

You don't make much sense. Why would I claim if I wasn't bandwagoned ?

It just seems like its a way of escaping..

A way that's not scummy.

Ok. I just find it weird that by claiming town it helps..

I didn't say it helped, I said it wasn't scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Damnit do we have to quote the whole thing ? Bad habits die hard.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I must have heard that a thousand times over on this site, jack.

[Albert B. Rampage]

It's similiar to albert's always scummy play, maybe you don't like it, but it's fair.

What the fuck ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

vote: Shteven

He is clearly seeding an attack on me with his "albert always plays scummy" comment. I don't like it, it sounded like a set-up.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Could you clarify your point Guardian ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Second point: In YOS joining, I advise people to read the few posts that I and YB had right before he joined. I don't want them to get swallowed in all the noise.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why was everyone getting so excited about playing with AutumnEvenings ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why did Jack suddenly bite and voted N9V ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yosarian2 makes a good point, I'd like to see his defense on that.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What does Glork have to say on TCS/Guardian ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, vote Guardian

Just to put pressure and get a claim.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Not really.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Not really.

I posted too quick. I think Snitchkin (whatever his name is) is scummiest, but between Guardian and TCS, I trust TCS more. Guardian doesn't appeal to me as a day1 lynch, but I still want a claim to see what happens.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wow, good thing I posted before Glork.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Shteven*

[Albert B. Rampage]

Pushing for claims "because [you] want to see what happens" is scummy and/or absolutely terrible play. Take your pick. Either way,

STOP THE MINDLESS BANDWAGONING MENTALITY OR PERISH IN FLAMES

.

Live with it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Basically exactly what I'm doing. If somebody insists on behaving in a certain way, and their stubbornness gets to the point where their mere presence in a game -- regardless of whether they are pro-town or not -- then the town lynches them to show that they are serious about their disapproval, and that such behavior will not be tolerated in the future.

The concept of "Lynch All Liars" is a metagame policy which is designed to discourage pro-town players from lying -- and it really does work. Similarly, bandwagon players that you don't particularly suspect for the sake of forcing a claim because you feel like it is a horribly detrimental attitude which Albert has adopted. It's harmful to the town, and any player who insists on being a burden on the town should be disposed of.

No! I can change!!

Seriousssly, I promise I will be helpful on Day2. But you guys have all contributed to bore me with all this senseless and baseless metagame attacks. So I am fine with surviving, and I am fine with a lynching.

If I live, there's a strong chance my interest will pick up - but the way your acting now will probably never get to see that, Glork. Too bad.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Okay sorry about the last line in the last post. The truth is I was really looking forward to playing with JDodge and SpectrumVoid, but alas I am stuck with the likes of BM and you. And so I'm bored. But I don't want to ask for a replacement because I honestly think this game will pick up soon. But for that to happen, there has to be action and drama. Hence the bandwagonning, hence the pressure, hence the claiming, etc.

I'm trying to stir up the pot. If you are too terrible a player to understand that your actions have no effect on me, Glork, then by all means, try convincing everyone to bandwagon me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Argh, double-post.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

Damn, why do I always finish my posts with some attack ? Didn't even notice that until a re-read. Sorry Glork.

And that post was directed at Glork obv.

Also I meant double-post as in I didn't see any posts after my own when I submitted.

---

Glork, I don't want to waste your time, but can you explain why my bandwagonning is so harmful besides the fact that its difficult to read my play for mafia hunters ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Also, I find it amusing/ironic that you insinuated that I'm "terrible." Clearly, that mafia-hunting award shows that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Clearly.

But Glork, why would who I think is scummy matter, when there are more experienced players who can more easily find the scum ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I miss the simple times when we could just all follow Glork and if he mislead us we would chop his head off and elect a new leader.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'll try to post something before monday.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EDIT BY WAY OF POST

[Albert B. Rampage]

edit by way of post... >.>

But in all seriousness, let's hang Guardian... or TCS... or... Glrawk.

lol what ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah, I was and I got one. Do you hate me ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote

until I get a strong case on someone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert's excuse is that he's waiting for a "strong case on someone". Insufficient reason not to vote D1 imo.

I meant until I make my own case on someone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I started a re-read and only got up to page 13...wow. Its long. I'm losing the will to continue.

Mod: will you hate me as much as the players if I asked for a replacement ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I started a re-read and only got up to page 13...wow. Its long. I'm losing the will to continue.

Mod: will you hate me as much as the players if I asked for a replacement ?

Why are you losing will? Is coming up with cases on people you know not to be your scum buddies difficult? You could at least help us find the SK.

I fail to help or contribute in any way. Looking at my posts, I would lynch myself if I didn't know I was town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert: It's not cool to ask for replacement just because you can't find any scum. You're in the game, play it; if you don't re-read the thread, your replacement would have to anyway.

A more experienced player, savvier with the playstyles of each person would likely help the town in ways I cannot, and see thing that I do not see.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I've never been in a game this tough, day 1 with 26 pages ? C'mon put yourself in my shoes. Plus I'm playing with the likes of Glork and MBL.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright I'll soldier up then. But I warn you not to blame me for all that anti-town behavior when I'm found as townie. And don't judge me on this game's performance.

Mod, I'll stay in this game.

Like previously, content coming up before monday.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright I'll soldier up then. But I warn you not to blame me for all that anti-town behavior

when I'm found as townie.

And don't judge me on this game's performance.

Mod, I'll stay in this game.

Like previously, content coming up before monday.

So you are confident you will be lynched?

No, but at the end of the game everyone's alignment will be known, and I will be criticized for my bad play at the beginning.

[Albert B. Rampage]

All this fatalistic requesting for replacement then deciding not to etc. does nothing to convince me you are town, by the way, so if you indeed are, then do something about it.

I'm not asking you to believe I'm town. I'm asking you not to criticize my play when the game is over. Even if the town loses.

[Albert B. Rampage]

<snip>
I'm not asking you to believe I'm town.
<snip>

Albert, if you're not even asking us to, then why should we? :\. Statements like that really don't help you out at all.

I meant that I don't ask you to believe I'm town because I'm whining like a bitch and threatening to slit my wrists. I'm staying so I can help find scum, and that will be enough to prove me town or scum. Now gimme til monday.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Interesting discussion, I'd like to see Billy's reply to this.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Alright I'll just state my views on the last couple pages for the appetizer:

I was curious about all this talk on lurking when the only apparent lurkers were me and Johhan out of 18 players. On further investigation, I find that it is Glork who first brought up the lurking theme when he commented on

EBWOP: I know 8 pages in 2 days is hard, so I don't fault him for that, but I had him marked down for lurking before that anyways.

with

MoS: MBL lurked hardcore in Committee as town, did he not?

This caused a small chain reaction which I think later seeded the "lynch all lurkers or not" discussion.

There's some more jibber-jabber, then AE posts this, in reference to Mastermind of Sin post 608 that said Billy seemed pro-town:

MoS--sure, I'm up for a party. But what makes you think Billy is pro-town? I have so little read on him that I'm kind of baffled at how you reached that conclusion.

YB responds with this, which seems a lot like annoyed sarcasm:

Billy has posted like 5 posts, and they all seem pro town I guess.

AE later makes this lurker-hunting post:

Billy Twilight's last post was on Monday and he said he'd try to get a re-read and post in by Wednesday. It's now well past Wednesday. And I found Yogurt's and HungryJoe's reaction to my question to MoS about why he called Billy pro-town rather interesting. Especially since Yogurt seems scummy to me, as does HungryJoe (who, it's worth noting, echoed Billy in 107 on the subject of Yogurt).

So

unvote, vote: BillyTwilight, re-FoS: HungryJoe and Yougurt

.

This caused BillyTwilight to post content, while mentioning that he hates lurker-hunting. Yosarian2 approves of AE's lurker hunting tactic. This erupts into a full-fledged disagreement between Billy and a whole crowd of people(AE, Yosarian2, HungryJoe).

I will also go out on a stretch and say that others have a similar attitude towards lurkers, including Glork as in:

I should also point out that I have made D1 policy lynches on terrible players before. In Normal 51, I pushed (and got) a policy lynch on a player who insisted on making two-word posts and not contributing.

In my personal opinion, BillyTwilight's arguments hold more water then his opposition. This is bordering on WIFOM, but lurker-hunting will more than likely expose a power role, lynch a bored townie who continues to lurk, or both. Lurking, while anti-town, cannot possibly be categorized as a scum-tell for reasons already mentioned by Billy.

YogurtBandit seems the most opportunistic so far, so I will

vote: YB

.

FoS: Yosarian and HJ

for rushing to AE's defense too quickly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Lurker

is

unsportsmanlike. MoS, I didn't say it was about MBL, I said Glork replied to your comment with that quote. Gently correct me if I'm wrong.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The "like" and "I guess".

[Albert B. Rampage]

The "like" and "I guess".

That was the reason you voted me?

Yep. Pretty much. *Brims with pride*

[Albert B. Rampage]

YB, were you sarcastic ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

YB, were you sarcastic ?

No, I was being serious.

What is your attitude towards him now ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I completely disagree with AE. She keeps bringing back the "Billy posted after I voted for him" argument, ignoring that he would have posted anyway. What is she trying to do ?

Unvote, vote: AE

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well he has addressed the issue already, and AE shouldn't continue with this WIFOM crap.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because there's no way to prove whether he would or would not, and since he said he would in a direct reply, we should just leave the matter alone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert... There is something called circumstantial evidence, and I feel that your are

blindly ignoring it

for no good reason.

(shrug)

[Albert B. Rampage]

I didn't say he is town; what kind of thought process did you undergo ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, I implied he was telling the truth because I believe him, and am talking from my perspective.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because I think he is pro-town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So, you believe him because you think he's pro-town, without being able to explain why, and because of that you think it's scummy AE dosn't believe him? Isn't that kind of a circular argument?

We are going in circles.

I don't see him do anything scummy --> I think he's town --> I think he's telling the truth --> I think AE is scummy

[Albert B. Rampage]

If I were scum with who ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seriously, is he retarded or something ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Not only can you get something from the tone of responses to that question, but there's also a chance of a scum slip-up. You never know what you can get people to do when they're tired/drunk...

Autumn, I'm working on my Glork analysis, but off the top of my head I'm solidly on the fence regarding him. Don't tell him this, but I'd almost never be in favor of a Glork lynch D1. That doesn't mean I don't want him on the hotseat though.

lol yeah, I don't play drunk. I totally should 8)

[Albert B. Rampage]

As a mafia, I tend to attack my scumbuddies and go hard after them. So in this case, probably Stcevhen(whatever his name is) or AE.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't see the HH/ABR connection.

HH sounded like he wanted to lynch me instead of vouching for keeping me alive.

Unvote, vote: Shteven

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm leaning on YogurtBandit, but its all good.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm leaning on YogurtBandit, but its all good.

Why?The others have given diffrent reasons, but it sounds like all that you are trying to do is to seem like you arent following anyone while You really are. usually you would say, "I agree" and vote someone, but there it seems like its trying to cover up what you really say. But its all good?? Again seems like a cover up, saying, I wont vote for him yet, I agree, but I wont vote.Its just too contradictory and I really dont like that post.

I'll be waiting to -1 you, so I don't put my vote yet.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What? I attackled Albert because he was trying to be subtle following a bandwagon, Then he said he would wait till I was at -1 to Hammah.

I said I was waiting you be -2 so I would -2 you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

waiting you be at -2, to -1 you.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Yos

The reasons for voting YB are already highlighted by other players and I find myself agreeing with them. Both Guardian and YB can be lynched today. They're all on my suspect list.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Why YogurtBandit=scum:

Post #'s 78, 79: I don't like the first sentence in post #78. It seems to come more from the psychology of scum than town; in a way he states "I wish that BM looked scummy enough to lynch, but he doesn't right now so I am just going to FoS him."

Post #85: Votes BM over really shitty reasoning. He follows TCS bandwagon call and claims that he read BM's "scumtell" and that was reason enough to vote him. First, the scum tell came before YB's post #81, so he had already read that "scumtell" and not seen anything there to vote for, but when TCS voted, YB was quick to follow. This was the 7th vote on BM's early wagon, and unjustified to boot.

Post #99: Unvotes BM because he gets a "pro-town" feel on him, although Battle Mage did nothing between post #'s 85 and 99 that I can see that makes him more protown. However, YB did pick up a few votes in the interim, from Jack, BBB and BM; couple that with several people commenting that BM's wagon looked suspicious makes me feel that YB's distancing from the wagon was scum trying to back off from a town lynch that had soured. He also IGMEOY's Jack in this post, which seems OMGUSy to me.

Post #'s 101, 103: Nothing much here; BBB does point out that Yogurt's post #99 has a weird vibe because he attacked Jack for FoSing BBB for voting YB. I think this is evidence of scum not thinking things through. He wanted to go for Jack because of Jack's vote and call for a wagon, but didn't think through exactly what he was doing, just threw the IGMEOY out for no really good reason.

Post #120: He defends himself against my post #106, where I ask for clarification on post #99. His answers are unsatisfactory. Says he doesn't exactly know why he thought BM was protown; reasons that it might be because BM said that he acts scummy as town, etc. Not a satisfactory answer to why he claimed suspicion of Jack as well and criticizes BM for his playstyle. Although the last part seems ok out of context, in the thread he was merely echoing the thoughts of others from that part of the conversation. I find scum do this often, to seem as though they are contributing without saying anything substantial or that hasn't already been covered in thread.

Post #124: He's back on the BM wagon, with an FoS instead of a vote this time. Again the reasons are not great (same old BM acts scummy on purpose but maybe this time he is scum argument). I don't like how he said "I don't feel like voting you now," then FoSes him instead. Seems to me like he learned his lesson from the last time he tested the BM wagon-waters and is more hesitant about throwing down a vote on him.

Post #136: Chastises Albert for not voting his conscience. The first of several posts where YB adopts a preachy posting style. It's very manipulative and soapbox-like, and again contributes nothing to what has already been said in thread. Follows that with an Albert vote, jumping onto the next burgeoning bandwagon available.

Post #138: Chastises Albert for joining bandwagons.

Post #162: Completely useless comment about when a lynch will happen.

Post #165: Answers a question from Jack intended for Glork. He does this several times in the thread, might be a personal scumtell from him. I think he thinks answering questions in game makes him look more town and helpful, even if those questions are for other players and have nothing to do with him.

Post #173: Unvotes, but HoSes Albert and BM. I don't understand why a player has a vote on someone, then out of the blue unvotes them but leaves a large amount of suspicion on them. He gives a terrible reason for this (they keep flip-flopping, so I will unvote them, but I will keep an HoS{? - wtf is the point of an HoS?}, because I hear of their scummy behavior). He then begins questioning HJ. Asks him for anything he sees different or more scummy about BM's play, makes a statement that doesn't even make sense to me about how HJ would only think the way he's thinking because scum would think that way, and another question about asking Glork something about his behaviour that also doesn't make sense to me. I think the most significance in this post is not the content itself, but where it was directed. Glork at the time had attacked HJ for HJ joining the BM wagon, and HJ obviously began to defend himself. Everyone knows Glork's reputation for scum hunting, and whither or not Glork is scum a newb scum is likely to follow where Glork leads. This is the first mention that I can see from YB to HJ, and his timing seems funny to me. I think he saw Glork attacking HJ, and knowing Glork's ability to get people to follow him he jumped in early as well, hoping that a wagon would form against HJ. Otherwise I don't see the point of this post, as the questions for HJ are not well thought out don't really add a lot to that conversation.

Post #246: Clarifies his unvote of Albert, then FoSes Albert (again) while twisting a statement of Albert's way way out of context. He then asks Guardian why Guardian thinks TCS might be scum.

Post #248, 250: Unsatisfactorily defends his twisting of Albert's words.

Post #252: Defends Guardian against Jack, again answering a statement (not really a question) for someone else.

Post #261: Rolefishing, and stupid to boot. Let's not try to out any masons or other power roles on day 1 please.

Post #264: Back on the soapbox. Basically comes down to not liking Jack posting short posts. He defends Guardian again. Claims he's not attacking Jack, but then FnoSes him (btw, I hate these various levels of FoS; not saying they are scummy, but they

are

stupid).

Post #'s 268, 270, 272, 274, 276, 278: Very weird conversation about claiming town (I think about claiming vanilla town). Can't tell if YB was trying to get Albert to slip up or if it was just banter.

Post #'s 282, 286, 288, 292: Extreme soapboxing here. Attacks Jack for his jokey playstyle, takes the game to a role playing extreme, and culminates in a Jack vote - which is strange. He doesn't give a reason for voting Jack; in fact, Jack hasn't really done anything since YB's earlier FnoS (boo!), yet YB votes him. It seems the vote is placed more because Jack refuses to change his play style than anything else. I don't know that this is scummy, but it could be opportunistic, and its definitely trying to be manipulative.

Post #'s 297, 298: Addendum to the conversation about taking the game seriously.

Post #301, 304, 308, 319, 345: Nothing here, except a small attack against BM and more defense of Guardian.

Post #348: Asks TCS why he joined Guardian's bandwagon

Post #349, 353, 355, 357, 360, 367: Begins a particularly suspicious lurker-hunt for N9V. The timing is incredibly strange and out of the blue, and is a distraction from the Guardian wagon that is forming. I find it most suspicious because he doesn't vote for N9V. When people start voting N9V he attacks them for it, and "takes the high road" of asking for a prod. During this part of the game Guardian constantly refers to YB as noob town. All in all a fairly good distraction away from the Guardian wagon that was forming.

Post #381: Back tracks a little on Guardian, and wants Guardian to answer some points that AE made. Although not as bad, this still falls in the answering/commenting on other people's questions.

Post #393: Good vote for TCS.

Post #399: His first "random" pbpa. Target: TCS. Not a lot of content. He accuses TCS of a bandwagon mentality, although he has mostly bandwagoned throughout the game himself. I really don't mind this post too much. It's a little forced and has a strange feel to it, but TCS isn't a very townie player so far in this game, and I don't mind the vote.

Post #402: Defends himself against AE about his early BM votes/FoSes. Basically a repeat of the unsatisfactory answers he gave me in post #120.

Post #405: Attack's Jack for attacking him.

Post #410: "Random" pbpa. Target: MBL. Again mentions masons. A completely ridiculous and unneeded post. Puts a bunch of "HMMMMM"s in there, which means absolutely nothing. This post seems ridiculously scummy to me and makes his post against TCS look bad. It's like he thought, "well, I did one pbpa and I better do another just to make sure people don't think its strange that I did the first one". This is probably one of the scummiest posts in the game, regardless of player.

Post #'s 425, 426, 439, 441: Defends his "random" pbpas. He can't seem to decide if they were just random, or there were specific reasons he picked those players (especially MBL). Its all rather ridiculous and senseless.

Post #447, 448, 450, 452: Begins his silly "Confirm Vote: TCS" campaign. I am torn a little on this, because I do think TCS has been acting scummy. However, rereading YB gives me the impression that YB is jumping on a screw-up by town. All of YB's posts have actually given me a more townie feel about TCS. YB accuses Jack and TCS of "staging" some posts about TCS always acting scummy or somesuch. Also attacks Jack for defending TCS on metagame information.

Post #'s 455, 459, 460: Guardian in post #453 offered up some kind of picking-out-a-movie-randomly explanation for YB's "random" pbpas. YB latched on to that description and again defends his calling those pbpas "random". When Jack questions him on it he kind of brushes it aside; he then continues his attack on Jack because Jack doesn't feel we can read too much into TCS acting scummy.

Post #467, 470, 474, 481: More attacks of TCS. TCS again goes after Guardian, and YB again defends him. Then Guardian tells YB that his (Guardian's) logic is hypocritcal in post #468. This is a very interesting conversation. It seems that Guardian is trying to coach YB away from defending him so much because he feels he is getting in real trouble. However, this all culminated with another Confirm TCS vote from YB.

Post #'s 516, 520: Another confirm vote for TCS (woohoo!). Again points out TCS contradictory play; YB's really latched onto that and trying for the kill, I think.

Post #'s 625, 627: Again answers someone else's question, this time AE's question to Jack about me.

Post #640: Don't like the way he was baiting Albert here.

Post #692: Defends Guardian against Glork, again.

Post #747: Again answers questions for someone else, this time from MBL to Guardian.

Post #754: Confirm Votes TCS.... Again! YAY

Post #'s 823, 827, 838: The answers to MBL's hypothetical question. Not sure how I feel about these posts, mostly because I am not sure how I feel about how "fair" the question is, and if it really accomplishes anything.

---

What I read from all of this. YB has had 127 posts so far this game. The vast majority have been inconsequential, and most aren't listed in the above analysis. This bothers me, because it feels like a player is trying to look very active without at lot of contribution. YB also constantly accuses people of bandwagoning, although (especially very early) he partook of wagons almost exclusively. His early vote/unvote of BM reeks of scum being caught jumping on a wagon with no reason and then backing down and trying to save face. He seemed very quick to follow Glork's lead in going after HJ. His "random" pbpas are forced and he made several attempts to defend them that seem to slightly contradict each other. He's been OMGUSy with Jack and TCS and he became very manipulative and preachy with Jack about his playstyle.

My biggest problem with YB is that he attacks players who are under scrutiny, but his questions and assessments of their play don't often make a lot of sense. He follows other players leads (even his attack against TCS originated with other players pointing out TCS' on-again/off-again scummy behavior).

Then there is the thing with Guardian. Both players have constantly backed each other up; Guardian even seemed at one point to be asking YB to stop defending him because he thought he was in trouble.

FoS: Guardian

.

On a side note, with this pbpa I feel much better about TCS, simply because of the way YB has gone after him. I don't think they are mafia together, and TCS could be a a SK, but coupled with TCS' play in Clue and the style that he seems to be adapting lately, he's lowered on my radar now.

unFoS: TCS

.

Top two candidates for lynch are YB and Guardian.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Tell me, was this RR player good ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Im think Im going to do a re-read, I know Ive confirmed voted TCS 6 times, but I'll look for other suspects.

FOS: YogurtBandit

By all means, stick to your guns. I don't see why you would need to look for anyone else if you've confirm voted me six times already. Clearly I should look to you like the most obvious lynch. The only reason you would need to do so is if you were just hunting for another wagon to hop onto.

I think we can consider YB confirmed town... no scum would really be this pigheaded.

vote: Shteven

I get the feeling I might be suiciding by hopping so much, but whatev.

I really don't feel comfortable with YB

or Guardian, so here goes.

?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I had already indicated not being willing to pick between YB and Guardian.

I missed it, quote it for me ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

My vote stays.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Because of Sthven(wtv his name is)'s mass OMGUS'ssing and his statements about his votes.

[Albert B. Rampage]

YB - I'm really quite disappointed that you went to all that trouble to make such a long post and your conclusion was that Jack should be punished for lurking. The fact that there are others who are contributing less than Jack and others that appear scummier, your PBPA selection seems more than a little OMGUSsy. That said, since you chose someone who wasn't really high on the radar screen it makes me think that the biggest bandwagons are all on scum or that you're likely not scum.

QFT

[Albert B. Rampage]

Actually, to be perfectly honest, I'd be happy to hammer just about anyone at this point, solely to end this torturous day.

Scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

*avidly raises hand* I am!!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Listening

[Albert B. Rampage]

A claim is indeed in order.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Okay this is my strategy:

I'm going to use Glork as a shield and hide behind him until all his suspects are lynched and then I'm going to throw myself off the regional mountain to avoid getting lynched.

I'm still feeling the YB wagon is good, and a Shteven(unpronounceable name) lynch would be great.

[Albert B. Rampage]

God this game has been dragging so long I don't even remember my role.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Damn, good thing I claimed vanilla townie else I woulda forgotten my role.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's funny lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm still waiting for his analysis.

[Albert B. Rampage]

An effective defense to an effective attack...

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm still waiting for his analysis.

Unvote, vote YogurtBandit

[Albert B. Rampage]

All 3 posters above me have no reason to be suspicious of my last "exchange".

xyzzy says: "I can't put my finger on it, but he's definitely hiding something" to which I laugh, and Yosarian calls that a "defense", which makes no sense. YB QFTs, which is equally, if not more ridiculous. Guardian also makes an inexplicable FoS.

Before xyzzy even opens his case. That is idiotic at best.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert: xyzzy made sense, and you tried to laugh away his post. That looked a bit scummy to me. Now, you want to wait for his analysis, I understand that, but then you OMGUS voted Yogurt for just agreeing with me that your "defense" post was iffy. Now THAT was scummy.

Made sense ? MADE SENSE !?!?!?? LOL!!!

*Sigh*

I'm nearly done with my analysis of this crazy game, but I want to point out the general theme of the analysis:

ABR is scum.

I know, I know, he always acts scummy, but he's acting entirely different. He's... still throwing scumtells all over, but it's not the ones he usually throws. I can't put my finger on it, but he's definitely hiding something. Not acting normal AT ALL.

Vote: ABR

What makes sense out of this ? Besides flawed meta-gaming theories, what is there to this post that makes sense ?!?

I took your post as a joke. YB QFT-ing is NON-SENSICAL. What's this about a "defense" ? His attack consisted of "I have analyzed things and I will show you later, but for now I think Rampage is suspicious". How is one supposed to defend against that ?

FoS: Guardian, Yosarian2

[Albert B. Rampage]

Albert, you are throwing a major hissy fit because someone is suspicous of you.Xyzzy did make sense. He said he thought you were scum. maybe you just dont want to understand that.

Confirm vote: YB

Yosarian said he made sense before he exposed his reasons, you quoted him for truth. Scummy as hell.

[Albert B. Rampage]

What exactly made sense ? He didn't say anything. Yos and you don't even know my playstyle, YB. How can you say his meta-gaming theories make sense or not ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, Vote: Albert

Xyzzy's post made perfect sense:
-He pointed out that you claim to always play scummy
-He accurately stated that in spite of this claim, you have repeatedly given off

SEVERAL

scumtells
-He stated that the sheer volume of your scummy behavior cannot be excused by your earlier claim to "scummy play"



Now, you've gone and given off another gigantic scumtell via mass OMGUS. That's certainly enough for me.

1) I claim no such thing.

2) So have other players.

3) Once again, where did I claim I scummy play ?

This is baseless.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP Again: Xyzzy furhtermore asserts that while you may appear scummy in all of your games, you exhibit a

different kind of scumminess

this time around. Remember how BM said (and I paraphrase) "guys, if you think I'm always scummy, you shoud look at whether this is typical BM-play or unusual BM-play. That'll probably lead you to deciding what my alignment is." That's exactly what Xyzzy did, and it is

the correct way to approach "always-scummy" players.

So in that respect, his claim also makes sense. Now granted, I expect him to explain *WHY* he thinks you are behaving differently this time around, but in the meantime, he has at the very least provided his reason for switching.

EXACTLY

. How are Yos and YB supposed to say that make sense when they don't know my playstyle "as well" as xyzzy ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Asking for a replacement is anti-town. That's what I was referring to. Go fetch me another quote.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You stated that you enjoy bandwagoning just for the sake of getting information and forcing claims. Shteven's response was that he won't go read up on other games just to see if that kind of play is consistent with you being town. Nevertheless, I remember giving you a firm lecture on why your chosen playstyle was both scummy and bad strategy.

You came to that faulty conclusion yourself, dear sir. With your famous "when one quarter of the town acts scummy on purpose, I get mad" speech.

I do not find I play scummy. Bandwagonning is a valid strategy to find scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EXACTLY

. How are Yos and YB supposed to say that make sense when they don't know my playstyle "as well" as xyzzy ?

Because the point is that they understand

WHY XYZZY MOVED HIS VOTE TO YOU

.


Durr.

No they do not understand. They just agree "yes Albert is scummy" and don't even think of the reasoning of xyzzy, or why I must be scum. They just rely on their emotions.

[Albert B. Rampage]

<snip>
I'm not asking you to believe I'm town.
<snip>

Albert, if you're not even asking us to, then why should we? :\. Statements like that really don't help you out at all.

I meant that I don't ask you to believe I'm town because I'm whining like a bitch and threatening to slit my wrists. I'm staying so I can help find scum, and that will be enough to prove me town or scum. Now gimme til monday.

???

Again referring to asking for a replacement. You are searching in vain, I have never said I always play scummy. In many of my ongoing games I am not at all scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Heh. We seem to be having a fundamental breakdown in communication, Albert.

Why did you not pursue more information regarding

Johhan

and choose to go after somebody

who was being suspected by somebody else

?

Double-posted that last one.

I don't want to bandwagon, bandwagonning is the means I use to gain information, being the end.

Also, how can I pursue it if he is inactive...?

Yes, that's what I

just said

. BANDWAGONING IS THE MEANS I USE TO GAIN INFORMATION, BEING THE END.

Means to an end. Bandwagonning is the means, gaining information is the end. If I am not going to gain information, then I won't bandwagon.

Verify your quotes before making a fool of yourself.

[Albert B. Rampage]

In that particular case, it would be useless to bandwagon Johhan since it wouldn't wield any information, since if most of the town disagrees with me, Johhan wouldn't be in a situation where he could slip since he is under no pressure at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

wield = yield

Bandwagonning Johhan in that situation wouldn't give us any extra information, so I didn't want to. Bandwagonning works when it puts pressure on certain players; they will act differently under stress, and other players might want to save their partner, throw them under the bus, whatever. This gives us information. A small number of votes in a large game like this is not enough to put pressure.

[Albert B. Rampage]

1st quote: Yet I have refuted YB's attack.

2nd quote: He didn't say xyzzy's attack was legitimate, he implied his attack required a defense.

How can he come to such a conclusion ? He can't. That's why my vote is warranted.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wrong.

---

An effective defense to an effective attack...

This is a sarcastic comment directed at YB; sarcasm clearly indicated by saying that I defended myself effectively.

So you are saying "thats funny lol" is a effective defense? Xyzzys attack was genuine, and he hasnt even done the analysis yet.

This is you taking things seriously and implying that xyzzys post required a defense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

YB = Yos

I DIDNT SAY YOU SAID IT REQUIRED A DEFENSE. I said you IMPLIED it did.

I DID NOT DEFEND MYSELF BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unintended caps on the last line

[Albert B. Rampage]

Saying that it isn't a good defense implies that it IS a defense, which implies that xyzzy's post needs a defense.

I win.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bah.

Unvote

This has been a major distraction.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This whole "exchange" was due to the fact YB taking obvious sarcasm seriously. Therefore I am expecting votes to drop off my bandwagon shortly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, I had voted Abr..

Unvote, Vote ABR

Hm. So you were wrong, but you vote me, interesting.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So you admit being wrong, and regardless -no, maybe because of it- you vote for me. Well, I can expect 3 quick votes from players who want to finally end this damn day.

Bah, can't blame them.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I claim the moral victory.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can you clarify what information you will get ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

The only thing I can do to save someone I know is town:

Vote YogurtBandit

[Albert B. Rampage]

Two people from each wagon, please vote Shteven. We can

do

it.

Its 6 to lynch at deadline.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think learning YB's alignment would be more useful than mine.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Can somebody save me by voting YB ??

[Albert B. Rampage]

Guardian ? MoS ?? BM ???

Saaave meeee

[Albert B. Rampage]

wtf ? Its 10 to lynch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

How can BillyTwilight and Glork's posts not convince you ?

If they are scum, there is no way I would be scum with them any way! They would be supporting me knowing full well I would be lynched anyway, and they would be proven right!

Unvote me and vote for YB!

[Albert B. Rampage]

God YB is so scummy, come on guys lynch me tomorrow and get YB today.

[Albert B. Rampage]

And Albert, the only reason you are voting me is to save yourself.

I went after you since the beginning of your wagon...

[Albert B. Rampage]

1. Shteven - town
2. MrBuddyLee (MBL) - scum
3. HungryJoe - scum
5. The Central Scrutinizer (TCS) - town
6. Coron 6. inHimshallIbe - town
7. ~N9V~ 7. Mastermind Of Sin - definitely town
8. HackerHuck - ?
9. BattleMage - ?
11. Guardian - definitely town
12. Glork - leaning on scum
13. Albert B. Rampage - town
14. Haut Boy 14. AutumnEvenings - town
15. Billy Twilight - most definitely town
16. Jack - ?
17. Yogurt Bandit - scum
18. Nik Zero 18. Yosarian2 - ?
19. Johhan 19. Xyzzy - lurker
20. BeanBagBoy (BBB) 20. Plessiez 20. Sarcastro - scum

[Albert B. Rampage]

There's no time to present my arguments, the deadline is too close anyway. Vote me away, I've made my peace.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If this

Hey guys, sorry I wasn't able to post. I had a hard time getting to a comp the last couple days of the conference and spent yesterday catching up on some rest.

The quick wagon on Albert reeked of scum.

xyzzy: Albert look scummy, but he somehow looks different-scummy that he usually does when he looks scummy but turns up town.

Albert: Whatever

Yos: That's not a good defense!

Albert: When he actually posts an analysis I'll answer it

YB: So you are saying that laughing off that post is an effective defense!! BAHHH SCUM!

Albert: You guys, how can I make a defense against an argument that has no substance?

YoS, YB, Guardian, Glork, MBL, Hackerhuck, Shteven: YOUR SCUM!! Your overreacting! Give us a real defense, you always play scummy but this time its different!

Albert: I never claimed to intentionally play scummy.

YB: Yes you did! right here...

Albert: No

YB: Then maybe here...?

Albert: No.

YB: Ah, now I got you! How about right here!!

Albert: No. Stop twisting my words into arguments that they aren't.

YB: Albert's at -3! Vote everyone! Save me!

Glork: Um, wait a sec, this bandwagon smells, Albert's probably town.

And so forth and so on...

Ok, so that's a sweeping generalization, but when I read through that section thats the feeling I got. First of all, xyzzy

never

backed up his argument against Albert with something that Albert could actually defend against. Albert did get over-defensive about the wagon, but I can forgive him that. He's gone from being a suspicious player to having a huge wagon form on him in the space of a couple of days right before a deadline. I see it as frustration more than anything else.

YB on the other hand is the scummiest of players (surprise!) on the wagon. The way he dug for anything that he thought could be the "nail in the coffin" so-to-speak and was repeatedly rebuffed by ABR is telling. Maybe it's just that I see scum in everything YB does, but how can you guys not see how hard he's stretching to get a lynch on the first big wagon that comes along that might save his bacon? This after YB was stuck on TCS for so long. YB, what has Albert done (besides laugh off an attack that he couldn't bring a real defense against) in the last 7 pages or so that have so convinced you he's scum?

Going back to case building against YB, since it's been ridiculously hard to get people to vote for him.

Post #1090: His defense of my analysis of his play. Most of it is pretty lackluster, just confirming that he was doing what I said he was doing but trying to act like it was town play.

However, What I am really not liking from BT right now is the fact that he's speculating everything Ido and trying to make me look bad. Which I have done too Albert, I know, but BT is going, "im not sure if he's trying to be nice, nut iot sure seems like a scummy thing, or Hmm, That could be scummy, but Im not sure. Im really starting to think Billy is Trying to get even more evidence on me.

Yeah, I was trying to show more evidence against you. That's what you do when your scum-hunting.

Im sorry, I wont post frequently anymore when I play games. The thing is, Even if I do contradict myself on the bandwagon thing, I have reasons more than others who just say "I agree With Billy Twilight, Yogurt is scum, I finished my Re-read, I still think YB is scum, I think YB is scum for talking about I think he is scum" So, Some of the pepole who are on my bandwagon for that, you are contradicting yourself. Sarc, I mmainly pointing at you because BBB (Plessiez) Was voting me without BT's pbpa, and you all of the sudden come in and re-vote me after reading this pbpa. Let's face it, This bandwagon is easier to jump on than Guardian's, Which is the operfect oppurtunity for scum. FOS:Sarc. I think I will Do some more pbpa's of the pole on my bandwagon, and Im sure I'll find at least 1 person acting more scummy than me.( Look at Jack, and BT, barely posting, Lurking, Starting Bandwagons, Looking Pro-town). I actually belive MoS is the only one on the bandwagon that is Pro-town for the most part, since his case one me contains more info from himself and less info from Billy's Pbpa, but maybe that just what he wants. Bt's Contstant, "Maybe Yes, Maybe No" Comments about me are odd, I definetly think he's signaling his buddies or He wants to point Fingers at me( Fingers of suspicon, in a way, but not nesscarily, since he's voting me anyways.) I think I will look for connections between Billy and the pepole on this bandwago(Jack,HungryJoe,Mos,Sarcastro/BBB)I still think this pbpa is more of a (and this will sound really stupid when Isay it) "Scum Roundup" Than an Actuall acusation.

But Billy does have good stuff on me, I must say, So Im unsure about Billy's intentions. I will say, He's made it very easy for pepole to vote me and get away with it. If thats what you wanted Billy, Good Job. Fos: BillyTwilight

How is YB still not lynched? He effectively says, "BT, you got a good case against me," then he says, "but everyone who's been swayed by this case is scum. And I am going to FoS Billy for bringing a case against me that makes me look like scum. Like Jack, he's been lurking and starting bandwagons and looking protown, and with all this evidence against me he's just trying to point more fingers against me to signal all of his scumbuddies who just jumped right on the wagon with him, because even though I know he has a good case against me no one who is pro-town would actually be swayed into believing this unless they had their own reasons to be voting me." Please.

Lets see, when forced to claim he accuses Jack of rolefishing in post #1117. Then he continues the OMGUS in #1137, accusing MoS of being scum with me. By post #1143 I've become the godfather. It'd be nice if YB actually attempted to back up his accusations of me with anything other than OMGUS reasons. I've already talked about his crashing on the Albert wagon, but to reiterate, he jumped at the first chance he could of getting someone lynched instead of himself, even though he's been consistently on TCS the last month or so. At this point his OMGUSy play is ridiculous. YB, I suppose now I am the godfather, Sarcastro, HungryJoe, Jack, Glork, and Albert are all scum for voting you; I guess you'd include in that list TCS, maybe Guardian and MBL, and who know who else from the way accusations have been thrown around by you the last 15 pages or so.

There is a lot else to comment on, but I don't have the time right now to pick through the posts and hit them up. Albert's play has looked bad the last several pages, but I think it's bad/frustrated town play, not scum. Or at least, not scummy enough to lynch him

en lieu

of YB.

and this

The hop-off by Glork was a little too blatant, but I've seen it done by experienced players before.

vote: Albert B. Rampage

over Yogurt almost entirely because Glork hopped off and I think Glork is scum. Also Albert's lynch gives us a lot of info to work with at this point, what with all the attention on him today. Other than these two facts, Yogurt and Albert are even money in my eyes. However, those two facts are enough for me to make a call.

That's amusing.

Here, TCS uses the *ONE* upside I mention in the Albert-lynch (lots of info) while simulataneously positing that I'm such a n00bscum that I'd hop on my buddy's wagon to help get it rolling, then make a big deal about bailing when it grows, after citing a semantics/wording based attack from inHim that concerns exactly that one upside that I was trying to get at.

I can taste the irony.




And inHim, I still maintain that you're blowing a lot of air. The difference between me saying "Information" and "Good information" or "The most information" is the only thing that is keeping your attack afloat. You are arguing a point on semantics and

nothing more

, and claiming that I'm "leaving wiggle room."

What exactly do you think I am leaving wiggle room for?

To switch to Albert? Hardly. I've already made my stance very clear, and I'm sticking with my YB-vote (not that it's going to matter at this point anyway). Note that I emphasized that (good) info was the *ONE* upside I saw to an Albert-lynch. I stated that my projected chances of Albert being scum are 30%, which is only 2.22% more than the chances of any random player being scum. Simply put,

I was not going to, and do not plan on joining a lynch on Albert today

. If you think I'm leaving "wiggle room" for something else, speak up, because I have no idea what else you could mean.

I think that you are really, really,

really

reaching here, and it bothers me quite a bit.

FoS: inHim

.... I find you at least 2.5 times more likely to be scum than TCS. While his gut/play aren't helping his resume, your logic is astonishingly horrid.

can't sway you, believe me,

nothing

can.

I honestly don't know who is scum and who is not yet; only YB seems most likely scum due to the fact that its so hard to get votes on him even tough he has said plenty things worse than me.

Guardian and Billy T are almost sure to be town because of the way other players have been going after them, and I can't conceive any possible scum teams with these two.

Glork would probably help me out if he was scum. MoS I am getting a town read on him because of his fairness in judgment.

YB is just almost assured scum, really. I think Sctevhen is town now, because he's played a bit better.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote, Vote: YogurtBandit

Hurry, we can still rally before it's too late! Down with YB, kill the crapwagon!

Yaaaaaaaaa

[Albert B. Rampage]

You haven't been pro-town at all...

[Albert B. Rampage]

No, because the reasoning behind his analysis of the current situation are sound.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Actually...

thinking really hard, YB is probably not scum either. In that case it would be too late to catch scum anyway.

I give up. This game has been too much for me from the beginning.

[Albert B. Rampage]

MBL, Sarc, Yogurt, Glork, Hungry Joe. Two sentences on each, how tough is that compared to "MOS, save meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"?

MBL

MBL is lurking, this is not usual play for him, not sure what to make of it, though. Pops up out of nowhere to say YB made a scummy post, doesn't explain why it's scummy, then disappears for several pages, not responding to people's comments towards him. Still has not explained Glork's early questions about the SV kill remark. I don't understand his eventual explanation of that remark, and he gives no reasons for his suspicions. MBL makes a bad conclusion about BT parroting people, when it's obvious he was stating his opinions on the discussion and trying to get answers about people's actions. Wow, every post MBL makes seems scummier than the last...MBL is really pushing overly hard on TCS regarding the townie claim from Albert, I think he's scum that latched onto something to try and start pushing a bandwagon against TCS eventually. MBL seems to be *trying* to make Glork look scummy in [538]. There is no reason for a scum Glork to have *forgotten* that reason while a protown Glork would remember. It is completely understandable that Glork wouldn't mention that on accident. MBL is trying to make a molehill out of an ant farm.

Sarcastro:

42 pages and it's still Day One?! It's like my own personal hell.

I'm tempted to just agree with Glork and vote for this Shteven fellow, but I suppose I'll read the thread first.

And then I'll agree with Glork.

Actually, to be perfectly honest, I'd be happy to hammer just about anyone at this point, solely to end this torturous day.

I found these two posts scummy because of the wording and style of writing.

YB:

Im sorry, I wont post frequently anymore when I play games. The thing is, Even if I do contradict myself on the bandwagon thing, I have reasons more than others who just say "I agree With Billy Twilight, Yogurt is scum, I finished my Re-read, I still think YB is scum, I think YB is scum for talking about I think he is scum" So, Some of the pepole who are on my bandwagon for that, you are contradicting yourself. Sarc, I mmainly pointing at you because BBB (Plessiez) Was voting me without BT's pbpa, and you all of the sudden come in and re-vote me after reading this pbpa. Let's face it, This bandwagon is easier to jump on than Guardian's, Which is the operfect oppurtunity for scum. FOS:Sarc. I think I will Do some more pbpa's of the pole on my bandwagon, and Im sure I'll find at least 1 person acting more scummy than me.( Look at Jack, and BT, barely posting, Lurking, Starting Bandwagons, Looking Pro-town). I actually belive MoS is the only one on the bandwagon that is Pro-town for the most part, since his case one me contains more info from himself and less info from Billy's Pbpa, but maybe that just what he wants. Bt's Contstant, "Maybe Yes, Maybe No" Comments about me are odd, I definetly think he's signaling his buddies or He wants to point Fingers at me( Fingers of suspicon, in a way, but not nesscarily, since he's voting me anyways.) I think I will look for connections between Billy and the pepole on this bandwago(Jack,HungryJoe,Mos,Sarcastro/BBB)I still think this pbpa is more of a (and this will sound really stupid when Isay it) "Scum Roundup" Than an Actuall acusation.

But Billy does have good stuff on me, I must say, So Im unsure about Billy's intentions. I will say, He's made it very easy for pepole to vote me and get away with it. If thats what you wanted Billy, Good Job. Fos: BillyTwilight

How is YB still not lynched? He effectively says, "BT, you got a good case against me," then he says, "but everyone who's been swayed by this case is scum. And I am going to FoS Billy for bringing a case against me that makes me look like scum. Like Jack, he's been lurking and starting bandwagons and looking protown, and with all this evidence against me he's just trying to point more fingers against me to signal all of his scumbuddies who just jumped right on the wagon with him, because even though I know he has a good case against me no one who is pro-town would actually be swayed into believing this unless they had their own reasons to be voting me." Please.

Lets see, when forced to claim he accuses Jack of rolefishing in post #1117. Then he continues the OMGUS in #1137, accusing MoS of being scum with me. By post #1143 I've become the godfather. It'd be nice if YB actually attempted to back up his accusations of me with anything other than OMGUS reasons. I've already talked about his crashing on the Albert wagon, but to reiterate, he jumped at the first chance he could of getting someone lynched instead of himself, even though he's been consistently on TCS the last month or so. At this point his OMGUSy play is ridiculous. YB, I suppose now I am the godfather, Sarcastro, HungryJoe, Jack, Glork, and Albert are all scum for voting you; I guess you'd include in that list TCS, maybe Guardian and MBL, and who know who else from the way accusations have been thrown around by you the last 15 pages or so.

There is a lot else to comment on, but I don't have the time right now to pick through the posts and hit them up. Albert's play has looked bad the last several pages, but I think it's bad/frustrated town play, not scum. Or at least, not scummy enough to lynch him

en lieu

of YB.

My suspicions on HungryJoe rest primarily on his actions early in the day, in regards to me and BM. He made several comments I deem false, and his OMGUSy attitude in general makes me lean towards him as scum.

Glork because I think that if he were town, he would have kept his vote for me. I don't buy this "informational" argument.

There you have it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Its the same one lol

[Albert B. Rampage]

The wagon on Albert just now was crazy, also I think Albert will be more helpful in the following days. I still love you lots YB <3. Please be scum.

QFT

[Albert B. Rampage]

So Albert, whatever happened towards your whole, "Now I thionk Yb is town" run?

I still think I'm more useful than you, and I am confirmed 100% town to myself while you are not.

Could I please have summarized statements about why people think I am scummy? inHim explained himself reasonably well recently, but backed off a bit when he realized he was mistaken reagrding my behavior. The best TCS gave was "gut" earlier in the game, then "based on his convo with Yos2." Shteven's is based primarily on Burden of Proficiency, and I think we all know how I feel about that. Others have said that I look scummy, but have either declined to give me reasons, or they have cited other people as their references.

I want summary posts from Albert, Guardian, TCS, and anybody else who thinks I am likely to be scum. Because while there is a lot of noise coming in my direction, I honestly don't understand why most of it is there... which makes me wonder.

If you already think I'm likely innocent, what information will you gain from my lynch ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I thought you concocted a better plan that would require knowledge of my alignment, what with this post:

At this precise moment in time, no.

when asked the reasons why my lynch would provide information.

As I said in the initial post, I am less suspicious of you than the others mentioned.

[Albert B. Rampage]

MBL, you still think I am more likely scum than YB ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm torn, really.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Deadline extension ?

[Albert B. Rampage]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!