Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Jack]

Shteven/Jack: If you could quote exactly which posts/lines you find off-base and

why

you don't like them, then perhaps I could actually respond to your inklings.

Why are you so eager to?

Because I often see bogus wagons spring up this way. Two or three players get "feelings" or "vibes." Somebody else (a scumbag) decides to "agree."

No one is voting you. I would call this overdefensive.

[Guardian]

YB is just noob town... FomS everyone suspicious of him.
Glork is being atypically overdefensive.
BM is still scum.
Albert is still town.

[Battle Mage]

YB is just noob town... FomS everyone suspicious of him.
Glork is being atypically overdefensive.
BM is still scum.
Albert is still town.

lol consistent BS doesnt make you any more town-looking.
if you have a real contribution to make, please do. if not, dont spam the thread.

[Guardian]

Bored plus time = pbpa

Page 1

Albert laments death, and innocuously votes Johhan not that scummy imo...
nik bandwagons...
HH votes Albert right after... BM omgus's albert so does Johhan
bbb's post has actualy content.

scum:
???

Page 2

glork votes mbl for speculation...
I continue joking...
Shteven posts a content less post
HB points out some actual reasons why Albert may be scum. (answering his own question)
jack joins the vote albert for voting johhan wagon.. scummy
mbl votes me for my joke...
Glork answers my question about the nk specualation... I wonder if this is indeed a known scum tell. It makes some sense though.
BM ignores me saying I was joking and votes for me and gets into a spat with glork.

scum:
jack???
bm???
albert???

Page 3

mbl defends his page 2 vote on me and doesn't get that I was joking.
bbb's post is scummy to me for some reason tied to glork.
n9v gets on the easy wagon
so does shteven, but in a non scummy way.
bm says he got pm at the beginning of day. he could easily be lying.
bm continues thinking I am scum...
hm gets on bm wagon, makes sense...
bbb looks more townlike
hj votes bm and asks for a defense

scum:
bbb???
n9v??
bm?

Page 4

tcs laments bm's play
tcs and yb get on the wagon for bm's scummy oh just kill me ness.
jack admittedly fishes for yb
bm finds me scummy for unvoting him and looking for scum........
bbb & bm vote yb to try and get a scumbag.
jack accuses bbb of following
yb flops around

scum:
bm?
yb??
bbb??

Page 5

bbb gets on the bm wagon, hoppy...
bbb tries to throw suspicion on yb for interesting reasons...
glork looks at hj for his attitude towards bm, asking for a defense and whatnot
bt unvotes....
albert tries to start a counter wagon on hj
glork's list of potential scum is actually who I am thinking atm yb, bbb, albert, and hj.
albert flops around

scum:
bm???
yb??
bbb??
albert??
hj??
jack???
n9v???

Page 6

albert says he just tried to apply pressure to someone
yb votes albert for some ok reasons.
jack doesn't want a bm lynch
I vote BM for hist bad logic, but in retrospect pretty bad reasons.

Page 7&8

bbb unvotes, flopping again
shteven makes a long post, thinks albert is a good call
glork gets overdefensive
yb defends glork
mbl thinks yb is scummy
hj points out some flaws in the argument against him and suspects glork, and is frustrated with bm's play.
glork discusses hj
bm points out mbl's short post is scummy
yb makes a long post where he is suspicious of bm and albert
i point out my initial impressions... which I now disagree with. bm could still be scum though - asking to be killed is dumb.
bm trolls me.

scum:
mbl??
hj???
n9v??
bm??
glork???
albert??
jack???
yb???
bbb??

I've got to go so not much postgame analysis, but I wanted to post this before I got off... I think YB has been pretty town of the four I was suspicious of on page 6... hj too, and bbb. albert not so much though. his voting reasons and skittish behavior are telltale scum looks for me. I want more from n9v and nik0 definitely! prods? bm could definitely still be scum, asking for death is telltale. I now get the albert case and am suspicious of him.

ciao till later!

ps: i didn't have much time to edit this so sorry if it is wrong in places
pss: I have finished the dear old Camino de Santiago, and am loving relaxing in Spain!!!

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bah, I guess I'm not the worse lynch for today

[Battle Mage]

ah thats better. something we can actually comment on. well for starters, i think some of what you said is actually wrong. i dont remember saying MBL was scummy-MBL never looks scummy to me. lol
asking for death is not a scumtell. even if it was, i cant recall anyone doing that here. why mention it?
BM

[Guardian]

All the votes on the Vote Count are scattered.. I predict there will not be a lynch until page 15 and beyond..

Glork, What is an Inkling?

This is a scummy post.

^This

I interpreted this post as you saying MBL's post was scummy. No?

lol before i die, can somebody explain the scumtell i have committed?
apart from pointing out the logical fallacy of YB, i havent actually said anything. lol
man, id hate to be the remaining protown players, when this happy wagon turns sour

OK, my bad, you don't request death, only come close to it by insinuating that it was enivitable and getting all accepting of it and saying that you'd hate to be the remaining pro town players.

...

If you aren't the play for today, Albert indeed looks like an ok play, as does YB. I would not be upset with putting some pressure on Glork, too, his extreme defensiveness was odd for me. Although he did defend me earlier <3.

[HungryJoe]

I will furthermore point out that just because a player gives a reason for voting somebody does

NOT

automatically make them less likely to be scum. You seem to be implying the opposite. In fact, I would argue that in a significant percentage of cases, people who throw on supplementary, or additional weak reasons are scumbags who join the wagon, hoping to fan the flames against their victims.

Maybe so, Glork, but as a townie I would find it hard to get on a bandwagon without showing some kind of reasoning. I mean, I haven't been in that many games, but jumping on a BW without a good reason is not exactly pro-town here.

HungryJoe's FoSes of me and Albert seem too OMGUSy for my liking. My vote stands as is.

Take it that way if you like, it was just looking an awful lot like you and Albert were being a little odd to me, didn't seem right, I guess. Albert jumps onto whatever you're saying for little/no reason, and then you reprimand/FoS him. It just kinda looks like a good scum telling a bad scum "No! Get away!", I guess. And you're definitely not voteworthy, it's just something I feel is worth noting for later reference as a bit suspicious.

[HungryJoe]

Also, if I do seem a tad overdefensive (which, upon looking back, I guess I kinda do), it's just me. When I make arguments/defenses, I get a little bit wordy and do my best to be thorough. Can't help it, I just like to try and leave nothing out.

[Albert B. Rampage]

HJ is very convincing.

Unvote, vote Glork

[HungryJoe]

Okay, two parts here:

First, responding to YogurtBandit, cuz I totally missed his questions for me the first look.

dont change what he said Glork. he said he expected you to play well here as town. i dont know why you are defending him, when his obvious intention was to set you up for a lynch tomorrow.
trying to get him off the hook on semantics is a poor show... Rolling Eyes

This is the post that I really went after BM originally for, just because he was pressing a case that was really unfounded. Pressing hard, when it was pretty obvious to me there was no ground unerneath it. I thought that was pretty scummy, so I voted.

lol i seem to be getting more and more games like this. i dont think Albert is anywhere near as scummy as some people here, so i wont wagon him to save myself.
what i will say is, once i am dead, ffs kill Guardian, Glork, and keep a close eye on HungryJoe too.
now hurry up and kill me. i DO hate a dragged out demise...

lol before i die, can somebody explain the scumtell i have committed?
apart from pointing out the logical fallacy of YB, i havent actually said anything. lol
man, id hate to be the remaining protown players, when this happy wagon turns sour Wink

These are the reasons I kept my vote on BM. With a lack of defense and him asking for death baltantly and then insinuating it again, he's just doing a lot of scummy stuff here that I'm not going to ignore.


Part two:

What? I just made a post in which I was trying to say "Albert and Glork look a little bit suspicious here", and you jump onto my boat and vote for Glork?

...what? O_o

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yeah I do look suspicious, but I'm not scum. I do believe that Glork is suspicious too, so I vote Glork.

[Battle Mage]

no lol. i was agreeing with MBL, that YOUR post was scummy.

All the votes on the Vote Count are scattered.. I predict there will not be a lynch until page 15 and beyond..

Glork, What is an Inkling?

This is a scummy post.

^This

I interpreted this post as you saying MBL's post was scummy. No?

lol before i die, can somebody explain the scumtell i have committed?
apart from pointing out the logical fallacy of YB, i havent actually said anything. lol
man, id hate to be the remaining protown players, when this happy wagon turns sour

OK, my bad, you don't request death, only come close to it by insinuating that it was enivitable and getting all accepting of it and saying that you'd hate to be the remaining pro town players.

...

If you aren't the play for today, Albert indeed looks like an ok play, as does YB. I would not be upset with putting some pressure on Glork, too, his extreme defensiveness was odd for me. Although he did defend me earlier <3.

[Glork]

Part two:

What? I just made a post in which I was trying to say "Albert and Glork look a little bit suspicious here", and you jump onto my boat and vote for Glork?

...what? O_o

...this after joining my HungryJoe vote rather than voting where his own suspicions laid. Somebody does indeed seem

very

content to vote wherever he thinks momentum may lie.

Maybe so, Glork, but as a townie I would find it hard to get on a bandwagon without showing some kind of reasoning. I mean, I haven't been in that many games, but jumping on a BW without a good reason is not exactly pro-town here.

...my point is that I wasn't convinced that you jumped on the wagon with "a good reason." The "supplementary weak reason" that I was talking about which I found scummy is exactly what I was accusing you of doing.

The "meh, go ahead and lynch me" attitude is

NOT

a reliable scumtell. Not in the least. My past game experience has shown it to be no better than 50-50 in determining whether a player is town; if anything, I'd say it actually leans slightly in the

town

direction. This is why I saw your reasoning as being shoddy at best.

However, now that I think about it... if you're new-ish, I wouldn't expect you to know that fact, and I understand how you can see the "I don't care if I die" attitude as being very anti-town. So I must necessarily retract my primary reason for suspecting you.

Unvote

... in spite of the "double-OMGUS" that I mentioned a short time ago.

I still find it beyond confusing that, while Albert has stated his own suspicions of Johhan for being inactive and for OMGUSing, and has stated that he would like to see a wagon on Johhan, he

still

decides that he'd rather just follow somebody else's lead... this time jumping onto me.
I also find it interesting that Albert laments over the two deaths, calling them "two of the best players" in the game... like Coron said, I would place multiple players (MBL, Glork, Coron for sure... possibly others such as TCS or HackerHuck) above SV and/or JDodge in terms of "good scumhunters." But if Albert thought they were "two of the best," that would certainly give

him

incentive to kill one of them.
I was hesitant to join the Albert-wagon earlier, because it grew so large so quickly... but I am now thinking that his mob-mentality attitude is not a pro-town sentiment. Call it OMGUS if you will, but

Vote: Albert

.



Also...

Mod(s): Prod Coron, Johhan, and Nik Zero, and ~N9V~ (in 5 hours) in accordance with Rule #10, please.

[Battle Mage]

OMFG! GLORK IS AN OMGUSSY NOOB!

/btw, im kidding. but in a truthful sort of way.

[Jack]

But if Albert thought they were "two of the best," that would certainly give him incentive to kill one of them.

This is exactly what you were attacking MBL for.

Vote:Glork

[Glork]

But if Albert thought they were "two of the best," that would certainly give him incentive to kill one of them.

This is exactly what you were attacking MBL for.

Vote:Glork

No. I was attacking MBL for calling the SV kill "odd."
...and I kept it there for his refusing to explain why he thought it was odd.

Don't paint my primary reason for voting Albert as being his early-game comments. It is a known that lamentation (or celebration) over night-deaths is a common scumtell, and that is what I was getting at. Either way my main reason for voting for Albert is his bandwagony nature. Do

not

strawman me, Jack.

[Glork]

EBWODP: In fact, note, Jack, that I didn't even call it

scummy

what Albert did. I called it

INTERESTING

. That part of the paragraph was more my thinking aloud as to whether Albert's initial comments were significant -- whether he was trying to be the "good little townie" by being sad about the "good scumhunters" who died.

[MrBuddyLee]

Albert and Guardian appear to be scum. I'm satisfied with finding two today.

sv was an odd kill because when she's town the town loses and when she's scum the town loses. Extrapolate from that as you will.

<3 Jack. Whether you're wagoning scumbuddies or playing well, I'm buying it so far.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day One Vote Count: #7

Albert B. Rampage – 7 – HackerHuck, Johhan, ~N9V~, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, YogurtBandit, Glork

Battle Mage – 3 – Haut Boy, HungryJoe, Guardian
Glork – 2 – Albert B. Rampage, Jack

Guardian – 1 – MuddyLeerB
Johhan – 1 – Nik Zero
YogurtBandit – 1 – Battle Mage

With

18

alive, it takes

10

to lynch!

Not Voting – 3 – beanbagboy, BillyTwilight, Coron

Coron, johhan, Nik Zero, and ~N9V~ have been prodded.

[Jack]

But if Albert thought they were "two of the best," that would certainly give him incentive to kill one of them.

This is exactly what you were attacking MBL for.

Vote:Glork

No. I was attacking MBL for calling the SV kill "odd."
...and I kept it there for his refusing to explain why he thought it was odd.

No.

MBL seems to want to begin the often-fruitless process of "nightkill choice speculation." The only ones among us who could have any legitimate insight into the scums' kills would be the scums themselves. MBL is experienced enough to know by now that talking about N1 kills (especially in a night-start game) is rarely (if ever) useful.

You said alberts comment was interesting, since he said they were two of the best, and implied that he might have killed them as scum for that reason. This is clearly nightkill choice speculation.

Don't paint my primary reason for voting Albert as being his early-game comments. It is a known that lamentation (or celebration) over night-deaths is a common scumtell, and that is what I was getting at. Either way my main reason for voting for Albert is his bandwagony nature. Do

not

strawman me, Jack.

I'm not. I think your nightkill speculation given earlier comments is fake and scummy.

EBWODP: In fact, note, Jack, that I didn't even call it scummy what Albert did. I called it INTERESTING. That part of the paragraph was more my thinking aloud as to whether Albert's initial comments were significant -- whether he was trying to be the "good little townie" by being sad about the "good scumhunters" who died.

You said it was interesting and then voted him. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, and the implication is clear there.

[Jack]

Fudged the quotes on that last:

But if Albert thought they were "two of the best," that would certainly give him incentive to kill one of them.

This is exactly what you were attacking MBL for.

Vote:Glork

No. I was attacking MBL for calling the SV kill "odd."
...and I kept it there for his refusing to explain why he thought it was odd.

No.

MBL seems to want to begin the often-fruitless process of "nightkill choice speculation." The only ones among us who could have any legitimate insight into the scums' kills would be the scums themselves. MBL is experienced enough to know by now that talking about N1 kills (especially in a night-start game) is rarely (if ever) useful.

You said alberts comment was interesting, since he said they were two of the best, and implied that he might have killed them as scum for that reason. This is clearly nightkill choice speculation.

Don't paint my primary reason for voting Albert as being his early-game comments. It is a known that lamentation (or celebration) over night-deaths is a common scumtell, and that is what I was getting at. Either way my main reason for voting for Albert is his bandwagony nature. Do

not

strawman me, Jack.

I'm not. I think your nightkill speculation given earlier comments is fake and scummy.

EBWODP: In fact, note, Jack, that I didn't even call it scummy what Albert did. I called it INTERESTING. That part of the paragraph was more my thinking aloud as to whether Albert's initial comments were significant -- whether he was trying to be the "good little townie" by being sad about the "good scumhunters" who died.

You said it was interesting and then voted him. It doesn't take a genius to put two and two together, and the implication is clear there.[/quote]

[~N9V~]

Sorry, I'm here. Will have a post on Saturday. Don't have time right now.

[BillyTwilight]

I still think Yogurt Bear looks bad, maybe worst. Albert is awfully bandwagony, but this whole game has been bandwagonny, as well. MBL, what is it exactly about Guardian that you don't like? His original joking around with Glork?

Jack, I think you

are

straw-manning Glork's reasons for voting Albert. First of all, it's not the main point of his argument, more like an addendum. Secondly, his original statement said night kill speculation is "rarely, if ever, useful"; maybe this

could

be one of those rare times that it is useful. Finally, and what makes the second point above inconsequential, Glork NEVER DID what you are saying. Glork's original point was that the town sitting around talking about a Night 0 kill is usually fruitless; what Glork did was find an interesting point in another players speculation of the night kill. He was doing what town is supposed to do; look at peoples posts and their reaction to events and see if they can deduce alignment from those posts. His point was based on what another player SAID, not on his own speculation on who he thinks would kill SV or JDodge. I see these as two entirely different tactics, with the former being constructive and the latter being less so.

[MrBuddyLee]

MBL, what is it exactly about Guardian that you don't like? His original joking around with Glork?

Do you really not find anything suspicious about the totality of Guardian's posts? I'd like to hear your analysis before I elaborate.

Glork brings up essentially the same point I did, that sv isn't necessarily a logical kill, and then reasons that someone without a ton of sv knowledge aka Albert might have committed the kill. I don't have a problem with it. I presently think he was just making early-game hay when he chided me for doing the same thing.

BT parrotted two players in that post. Sketchy.