Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

In that particular case, it would be useless to bandwagon Johhan since it wouldn't wield any information, since if most of the town disagrees with me, Johhan wouldn't be in a situation where he could slip since he is under no pressure at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

wield = yield

Bandwagonning Johhan in that situation wouldn't give us any extra information, so I didn't want to. Bandwagonning works when it puts pressure on certain players; they will act differently under stress, and other players might want to save their partner, throw them under the bus, whatever. This gives us information. A small number of votes in a large game like this is not enough to put pressure.

[Glork]

I do not find I play scummy. Bandwagonning is a valid strategy to find scum.

In and of itself, bandwagoning is absolutely NOT a valid strategy to find scum. There are only a select few players who can use bandwagoning effectively. It takes a very, very specific eye (which, I will argue, you have not developed (unless you really are an alt)) to understand how to push, manipulate, and analyze bandwagons effectively. If you want an example of effective bandwagoning, look at the play of Glork/CES in Cultural Revolution Mafia. We used it

VERY

effectively, yet it took two experienced/talented mason-buddies to be able to put together such a strategy. And on top of that, I've never been able to recreate that kind of effectiveness, even though I have tried to do so since then (see: Snakes on a Plane Mafia).



Bandwagoning

has the potential to be a good strategy

. The manner in which you've been doing it, based on my observations, has not brought any of that potential to reality.

No they do not understand. They just agree "yes Albert is scummy" and don't even think of the reasoning of xyzzy, or why I must be scum. They just rely on their emotions.

You seem to be missing something. Yos was already suspecting you for his own reasons, and he confirm-voted based on your OMGUS reaction to Xyzzy/YB. YB called Xyzzy's attack "legitimate" which does not equate to "yes, Albert is being scummy." Noticing differences in behavior is a legitimate method of scumhunting, so I don't see how this is out of line at all.

[Albert B. Rampage]

1st quote: Yet I have refuted YB's attack.

2nd quote: He didn't say xyzzy's attack was legitimate, he implied his attack required a defense.

How can he come to such a conclusion ? He can't. That's why my vote is warranted.

[YogurtBandit]

An effective defense to an effective attack...

So you are saying "thats funny lol" is a effective defense? Xyzzys attack was genuine, and he hasnt even done the analysis yet.

Wrong.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Wrong.

---

An effective defense to an effective attack...

This is a sarcastic comment directed at YB; sarcasm clearly indicated by saying that I defended myself effectively.

So you are saying "thats funny lol" is a effective defense? Xyzzys attack was genuine, and he hasnt even done the analysis yet.

This is you taking things seriously and implying that xyzzys post required a defense.

[YogurtBandit]

Wrong.

---

An effective defense to an effective attack...

This is a sarcastic comment directed at YB; sarcasm clearly indicated by saying that I defended myself effectively.

Nope, it was at yos.

So you are saying "thats funny lol" is a effective defense? Xyzzys attack was genuine, and he hasnt even done the analysis yet.

This is you taking things seriously and implying that xyzzys post required a defense.

I didnt say it required a defense, but I did take it seriously. regardless, thats funny lol is still a horrible defense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

YB = Yos

I DIDNT SAY YOU SAID IT REQUIRED A DEFENSE. I said you IMPLIED it did.

I DID NOT DEFEND MYSELF BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unintended caps on the last line

[YogurtBandit]

YB = Yos

I DIDNT SAY YOU SAID IT REQUIRED A DEFENSE. I said you IMPLIED it did

Implied? No, I said Thats funny lol isnt a good defense.

I DID NOT DEFEND MYSELF BECAUSE THERE WAS NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST.

Blasphemy. You continue to throw a hissy fit over nothing at all.

Unvote, Vote:Albert B. Rampage

Fos:TCS

[Albert B. Rampage]

Saying that it isn't a good defense implies that it IS a defense, which implies that xyzzy's post needs a defense.

I win.

[YogurtBandit]

Saying that it isn't a good defense implies that it IS a defense, which implies that xyzzy's post needs a defense.

I win.

No, I was saying that if you think thats funny lol is a good defense then I said it wasnt, so you THINK that alll of the sudden it needs a defense.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bah.

Unvote

This has been a major distraction.

[HackerHuck]

Interesting exchange. Maybe Guardian can wait until tomorrow.

I wouldn't say that OMGUS is a great scum tell, but Albert's overdefensiveness on this subject has me more than a bit concerned. I notice that he didn't bother to comment on what I had to say about him.

Unvote
Vote: Albert

[Albert B. Rampage]

This whole "exchange" was due to the fact YB taking obvious sarcasm seriously. Therefore I am expecting votes to drop off my bandwagon shortly.

[petroleumjelly]

Official Day One Vote Count

Albert B. Rampage – 5 – Yosarian2, xyzzy, Glork, MrBuddyLee, HackerHuck

Guardian – 4 – Battle Mage, inHimshallibe, Shteven, AutumnEvenings
YogurtBandit – 4 – Sarcastro, Billy Twilight, HungryJoe, Jack

Glork – 1 – The Central Scrutinizer
MrBuddyLee – 1 – Mastermind of Sin
Shteven – 1 – Guardian
The Central Scrutinizer – 1 – YogurtBandit

With

18

alive, it takes

10

to lynch, and

6

to lynch at deadline!

Not voting – 1 – Albert B. Rampage

[YogurtBandit]

Oh, I had voted Abr..

Unvote, Vote ABR

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, I had voted Abr..

Unvote, Vote ABR

Hm. So you were wrong, but you vote me, interesting.

[YogurtBandit]

EBWOP: As did Guardian.

Abr is at -3.

[Albert B. Rampage]

So you admit being wrong, and regardless -no, maybe because of it- you vote for me. Well, I can expect 3 quick votes from players who want to finally end this damn day.

Bah, can't blame them.

[YogurtBandit]

So you admit being wrong, and regardless -no, maybe because of it- you vote for me. Well, I can expect 3 quick votes from players who want to finally end this damn day.

Bah, can't blame them.

WIFOM?

[Shteven]

Well that was a rather surprising turn of events. After wondering if a MBL wagon would spring up, Albert's taken the honor instead. Well, reference my post on page 49, Albert was my third choice, and for day 1, that's plenty for me.

Unvote, Vote: Albert B. Rampage

Not really necessary since he's already at 6, but who knows, maybe we'll make 10.[/b]

[Albert B. Rampage]

I claim the moral victory.

[Shteven]

Also, I wanted to add a comment about the previous situation, when yogurt/guardian are at 5 each, and not voting for each other. True, it may seem scummy to save yourself by killing someone else, but is it worth looking scummy to help the town significantly? I think so. Let's use the following assumptions:

To outsiders, both Yogurt/Guardian are probable scum. They were the leading wagons, so this is reasonable. However, let's pretend you are Yogurt. You know, 100%, from your role pm, that you're a townie. So would you want to let the town kill a townie, or would you want to give the town a significant chance to lynch scum? Yes, you may end up dying day two. But you may not. And if the town mis-lynches you on day 2, you still got scum day one (hopefully).

P.S. I am not claiming that I know yogurt is townie

I think too much effort is made to avoid looking scummy. I'm not saying go all out scummy, but if there's a simple game theoretic answer, then use it even if it may look bad. There may only be a 50% chance that the other guy really is scum, but if you are town, you know there's a 0% chance that you are, so don't let someone else roll the dice when you can make the correct decision. Part of being a townie is not just being willing to die, but also to be willing to say what needs to be said even if it may hurt you personally. Townies should be the ones leading the hunt for scum. Cops/Docs/Vigs hold back, or at least until the cop has some results.

[MrBuddyLee]

Shteven, does it bother you that your #2 suspect is on the wagon with you?