Mafia Behind the Maiden (Game over!)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: Tierce

Don't want to be stuck in a situation again where she's scum and I know she's scum but can't get her lynched because she's Tierce so she needs to die now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

I believe in SpyreX.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm not really at liberty to discuss my Tiercevote in detail.

What I will say is that there is a disturbingly high density of words that might not mean anything, and a disturbingly low density of trying-to-find-scum in her eight posts to date.

Are you a neighbor with her and she didn't say anything in your QT?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

p:edit
FOS: DDD

Claiming scum, eh? Message received.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

I believe in SpyreX.

Child Please

Could you explain your faith in SpyreX? In my experience with you, you've never been one to put your own reads as second fiddle to anyone elses.

I also suck ass in large theme games with the exception of when something different is going on for me; in WWE Road to Wrestlemania I was completely immune to NKs; in Scummies Winvitational I faked a post restriction, those are my only two large theme games where I'd describe my play as even close to good. This game, my strongest town read is basically going to have my vote until I think it's time to switch things up.

VOTE: Tierce

Questions –

DDD

– why did you choose to sheep Spyrex as opposed to Glork?

More confident in SpyreX town than Glork town; I think I've played two games with Glork and he was town both times and I don't really know how to read him, I've seen SpyreX enough times to be pretty damn sure he's town here.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: UberNinja

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tammy

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oh, FFS.

Make that five.

I hope this is because of me, is it?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You're going to have to do more than this.

I don’t think so.

Oh god. Are you one of THOSE players? ;_;

Apparently?

~~

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Toasty

~~

You know what I don’t like personally; people overly concerned with the scum win condition. Maybe it’s just me and maybe it’s a mistake but I really don’t care about the scum win condition; I want scum dead, which means my win condition is met, game over, victory. (I’m seeing Gamma and Alchemist as the two people who most irritate me in this regard from a few quick searches.)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Apparently?

CES +

Empking + Nobody Special

, I'll post very little and mostly watch type of player

Did I run over your cat in my car or something for you to spit such vile invective at me?

I just try and be what any given town needs, this one certainly doesn't need more alpha personalities nor does it need more assholes posting giant walls most people are going to ignore so if that's what you're expecting you're not going to get it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You think I'm an asshole?

I think anyone who makes a post that is 16 pages long when posted into Word is an asshole.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: Instead of saying things, then voting a person that doesn't relate to any of the said things, could you, like, explain your votes?

SpyreX has my vote until I decide he doesn't. I'm voting Toasty because SpyreX is.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have another ability but I'm not going to reveal it till later

ugh dood why

now that is a bad play

I think it's great play; now scum will hopefully kill him and we'll have one less derp to deal with in later days; huzzah.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Hindu/Implosion: No daykill? I am disappoint you two =/

If I have a vig kill, you're on the short list of people I'm shooting tonight so you do have that going for you.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

vote toastytoast

Hurr.

Word, his latest post is terrible; only nine reads and four of them are null? Wyrd is a null read due to lurking but I'm a scum read due to the same, goofier than a pet coon. If I wasn't already voting for him and hadn't pledged my vote to SpyreX I would totally move my vote to Toasty now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Its another reason I like toasty, he's willing to poke at DDD and go *here's somebody*, because he honestly believes there might be scum slipping along in that slot.

You really think it takes any courage to put my name down?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The fact that we are letting people like DDD just get by is too much. Also, DDD's decision to sheep spy came very quickly,

and seems a rash move to make

. He also did not give his reasoning behind trusting spy. I also have never seen a sheep player who votes against their better judgement. Its always "well, *this player* seems pretty smart, and his case was good, so I'll sheep!" not "im lazy and don't give a fuck, so I'm going to select a random player and sheep them even if I think there's a better lynch."

And why is that? You also seem to assume just because I don't give reasons why I think SpyreX is town means I don't have reasons why I think SpyreX is town.

The cutoff is at DDD for a reason, I assume.

Yeah, I'm not lurking; I'm just being tedious.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

YESS WE LEVELED UP TO A BIGGER SWORD DDD

Unvote, Vote: MoI

If we make this lever long enough; we can move the world.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MoI

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Code: Select all

dramonic
Alchemist
Whoever SpyreX tells me to suspect

That looks right.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Dude...

Child please.

FTFY

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

3. Debonair Danny DiPietro - Null. I know of games where DDD has been good by reputation, but they've never been games that I've been in with him.

I was totally the bees knees in the Scummies Winvitational; wasn't on the D1 mislynch; helped lynch scum D2, was killed the next night for having another scums as my target for the next day. Don't let DGB-revisionism cloud your memories.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quilford

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I was totally the bees knees in the Scummies Winvitational; wasn't on the D1 mislynch; helped lynch scum D2, was killed the next night for having another scums as my target for the next day. Don't let DGB-revisionism cloud your memories.

That was other head ... this head has played with you.

Hrmph, now I'm going to have to figure out what games I played with him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

metamafiaaaaaa

Ugh, and that looks like that's it; can't blame him for thinking I'm almost a Nobody Special grade player if that's his only experience with me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well based on Tierce's VC recap I don't think I'll be voting for Toasty or dramonic any time soon. SpyreX is still town and I'd lynch MaguaofIllusion before I lynched him.

VOTE: Magister Ludi

At least until I go review posts from scumz.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD knows the way to a mans heart though

I'm shamelessly using you for your scumfinding talents so you better make my investment worthwhile.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

See, considering I dont -have- a nation persay I kinda assumed it would work.

Hmm?

DDD, who's scum?

Not me, not SpyreX despite the above being WTF, not Glork or Tierce, not Toasty, probably not dramonic. I like Ludi for scum, probably one of MoI and GreyICE as well and then I'd start clearing out the lesser posters who aren't me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why isn't Dramonic scum DDD

In a game this big there's just no reason to put your scumpartners names out there unless you're really going to make a big showy thing of it; dramonic feels just more like a safe place for implosion to store his vote when Toasty wasn't getting lynched.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hmm?

I'm just part of the Army. No nation persay.

So something that had negatives based on nations wouldn't really apply what with just being part of the rampaging hordes.

And yet you were totally willing to country claim with MoI to possibly confirm him. If you insist on this you're going to leave me extremely confused and irritated with you; you want to straighten things out and we can still be cool though no harm no foul.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yea?

"MoI I'm just part of this army so no nation should mean this'll work."

I didnt think of the -nation- part being a huge mechanic more just a flavor addendum - meaning from what he said having none would mean it'd work.

Of course when its you be scummmmm well.

I cant imagine I'm the ONLY one without a nation.

So when you literally go back and look at your role PM there's no mention of having a country but your name is a nice shade of town green and not big scary scum red?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So when you literally go back and look at your role PM there's no mention of having a country but your name is a nice shade of town green and not big scary scum red?

Nope, no country. Just the alliance army.

And greens and not reds yes.

On a different note I yelled at Vi when this game started about getting this pm.

We're cool again bro, but you're an idiot; now find us scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We're cool again bro, but you're an idiot; now find us scum.

Oh so you are cool with him claiming to not have any country of origin listed at all in his role PM?

Pray tell why exactly is that?

Trust me, these aren't the droids you're looking for. If shit gets heavy I'll explain then, but it's not like I'm working off secret information it's all just deduction so think about my questions and maybe it'll come to you as well. Either way, SpyreX is still town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I will point you to the fact that you are now admitting I did post things about DDD that you edited out of the quote and pretended weren't there.

DDD - places a "temporary vote"(????????????????????????????????????????????????) and doesn't unvote(????????????????????????????????????????) and you have bad "feelings" about a conversation he had with Spyrex(????????????????????????????????)

DDD reads pretty scummy to me. Places what purports to be a temporary vote, but doesn't remove it, which I think is because the wagon has picked up steam. Also, his conversation with SpyreX sets off warning bells with me, though I'm not entirely sure why yet. Vote: DDD

Looks pretty accurate to me other than I was also included in some vague VCA comment as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I could lynch Dana.

Concur, also want to see Oman dead.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Before I forget -

This head also would lynch DDD out of the Gang of Six if we got that route. He's not nearly obv-Town enough for my tastes.

You're just upset I figured out the SpyreX thing while you were stuck scratching your head and making a fool of yourself.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: danakillsu

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: danakillsu

While I see that we're purging and that's fine by me, unless it's really inevitable, I'd like to go through other people first. I get that dana has support. But it's the wrong kind of support for Day 2 in a game like this, I think.

It ain't a purge; I called him out in 1851 and his posts after that conveniantly ignore it; bad feelings.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Its pretty much not a vig but whatevs.

Why's that? If it's because they didn't claim like somebody mentioned; I wouldn't claim if I were a vig in this situation.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

If it hasn't happened by now why do you think it will happen any time soon?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Please don't hammer until I've gotten people to answer my request for nation members.

Nexus, you're at L-2 by my count. Full claim, please.

If it hasn't happened by now why do you think it will happen any time soon?

I'm fairly certain there are people who haven't seen the request yet.

I seriously doubt that is the reason; furthermore if you believe that to be the case why haven't you dragged forward your request on each page you instead of reposting it the once as far as I can remember.

Not sure where I stand on Nexus' claim; would like to see the evidence others have asked for and more input from Nexus before deciding one way or another.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oman

Don't like the lack of follow-up from Nexus but I'd rather leave that decision to tomorrow and make scum deal with it tonight. I'm fine with lynching Oman even if he is getting replaced because basically nothing can redeem the slot at this point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Seriously: "nexus is not the lynch because of claim. No claim could redeem Oman though. No claim. But god, not worth voting him over nexus way back when."

I'd be willing to give Oman's replacement a chance. Yes, all Oman did was lurk and complain about how stupid I am. And that makes him friends with TSQ. Stupid ain't scum.

I've got a list of like seven town reads and two "hope scum solves that problem for us" reads; I really just want to churn the dregs and unknowns of the game as soon as possible. And Oman isn't someone who gets a free pass for acting like a moron, you don't get to use the "VI acting like a VI" defense on a player who isn't a VI.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

could someone who is town please give me a list of nething important thats happened and also whos obvtown and whos scum? we all know im not reading 98 pages lmao.

I'm town.
Tierce and Glork are awkward claim town.
SpyreX is derpy mistake town.
Toasty and TSH are VCA town.

MoI claimed masonizer that only works on certain people (perhaps people from his country?) and had no luck on N1 with SpyreX
Nexus claimed doctor that only works on people from Crimea and claimed to protect MoI last night, despite the fact that MoI didn't claim to be from Crimea and Tierce did claim to be from Crimea.

Most everyone else could use a bullet as far as I'm concerned.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nexus

Good enough for me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro.

This is our lynch for today. Speedwagon please and thanks.

You should feel bad about this vote; you should feel even worse about the way you're misrepresenting things.

I'll be back later but this is a colossal fuckup of a wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No later. You are at L-2. Claim now, DDD.

Nope. Also, there's the fact that you're just misredaing me like pants but at least a few people are sheeping onto the wagon because Nikanor is representing something he can't possibly have. Hey Nikanor, come back here and either make your lie explicit or walk it back and watch the wagon crumble, I'm good either way.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Debonair Danny DiPietro.

This is our lynch for today. Speedwagon please and thanks.

You should feel bad about this vote; you should feel even worse about the way you're misrepresenting things.

I'll be back later but this is a colossal fuckup of a wagon.

HALP I HAVENT THOUGHT OUT MY FAKECLAIM JESUS WHAT IS THIS WHY DIDN'T I SHOOT GLORK HALP HALP VI PLEASE WRITE SOME FLAVOR FOR ME.

Someone remodel his face with a hammer

Hey GreyICE, look, your follow the Nikanor "investigation" strategy isn't going to work because he doesn't have an investigation. Sorry that your pathetic vote is based on a lie.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And Glork, stop being dense as stop fishing for a claim. This is 100% day-play, but it is still absolutely the wrong play.

FTFY

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hey GreyICE, look, your follow the Nikanor "investigation" strategy isn't going to work because he doesn't have an investigation. Sorry that your pathetic vote is based on a lie.

oh wow look at that post from a semantic angle

he's nervous posting/brokenposting

he's really angry too. not keeping his cool at all which is contradictory to the strategy he's chosen to defend himself

I would snap at you, but then I remembered that despite the massive case of dumb that you have, you're actually on my town list.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Are you claiming or what

You've already voted for me, you have absolutely no leverage to ask for a claim. What are you going to do? Keep voting for me like you were going to anyways? Scary.

I do like the fact that my wagon is filled with so many suspect players and only two of the town reads in you and Glork. Kind of says something right there.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

lol

big misplay

Tim, I consider your comment on what is and isn't a misplay to be about as insightful as asking Mastin for advice about being concise.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

When did Spyrex stop being your Number 1 100% sheepable Town read?

Why not mention who are your actual scum suspects on your wagon? Just saying "everyone is suspect" when 3 Mafia and 1 likely SK are already dead looks like scum not wanting to lay down reads.

When he showed absolutely no interest in trying on D2; he was and is still town but it wasn't useful to follow him since he wasn't going anywhere.

Because I'm going to somehow get this wagon taken apart without having to claim and playing "these are my final reads" just gives some lazy asshole off my wagon permission to lynch me; permission denied.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, how many scum are there remaining?

Why do you consider Dana, MoI, and singer "suspect" still? Why aren't they among your town reads?

Do you still want Oman/Rhinox to be lynched? Why/Why not?

Where would your vote be right now if you aren't being a stubborn moron?

How do you feel about a mass claim (either a full or partial one)?

I'll give you one for free; the rest you gots to pay for and I'm pretty sure you know what my price is.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't think you're in any position to be bargaining with me. I have zero problem lynching you here and now, and what you're currently doing is not making me want you any less dead.

LLD, feel free to put him at L-1. I'll call for my hammer later.

Sorry that I won't genuflect and kiss the ring when you're displaying such incompetence.

Its like is he trying to get lynched.

I just dont see why anyone would play like that, town or scum.

Oh hey, you're thinking for once; keep going maybe you'll actually come up with something.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

pedit: ddd, you aren't as good as me bro T_T

Oh I was being serious, keep exploring that space and maybe you'll actually figure out what's up.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I like the part where the derp-town players want to lynch me before even dana can show up and actually confirm that MoI isn't lying.

Furthermore, I hate you all and I have an ability that can be independently confirmed; now get the fuck off my wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have an ability that lets me shoot laser beams out of my ass.

Pew pew motherfucker, I'm not getting off you for anything less than innocent motherfuckig child after that.

That's because you're bad at mafia and not in the ironic way that Vi and SpyreX are; I remember when you had so much potential and then you turned into a shitty Magua/MoI/Fate rip-off. Still disappointed by that.

Still, people who don't wear pants on their heads should get the fuck off my wagon.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

For a motherfucking lousy soft claim of a potentially confirmable ability in a game where scum doesn't have to live through LyLo (since we could lose well before "LyLo")?

Why the fuck would anyone do that, DDD?

Assuming you're not an idiot, you're deliberately claim stalling at a time when you KNOW scum would claim stall.

Why?

See, I keep hearing that scum would want to stall the game and not being scum I have no fucking idea why that is. I mean there's the ultimate war mechanic which tells me absolutely nothing and then there's been a random daykill except it might be from the possible SK who just died and/or which might be related to time somehow but I don't know either way being that I don't have control of the kill.

And maybe you noticed but I didn't want to claim at all, so now I'm going to try to claim as little as possible because I don't want to claim at all, and when that doesn't work because you and yours wear your pants on your heads and aren't actually trying to read me, I'll eventually make the claim that will cause my wagon to disintigrate and I'll be even more disgusted that it came to that. Ta da. So how about we skip the last phase of that and you unvote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Lulz. DDD ... claiming everyone else is Pants-on-Head when your vote pattern has been horrible and you keep floating stupid theories (lulz MoI fake-claimed the confirmation on Dana) is ironic.

Regardless of which head I'm speaking with you're allegedly a good scumhunter; and Magua read me right in Last Will and MoI read me right sometime in the near past; I kind of have to consider you pants on the head when instead of actually trying to read me you go "lol votecounts".

And it's not that I believe that you're faking it, there's just no reason for us not to get confirmation of that fact when we have the opportunity.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How about we lynch you and you flip scum and we party?

Not getting lynched, no parties, not even in the scum QT, sorry.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Why don't you give me one reason based on Dayplay I SHOULDN'T think you are scum? I'd like to see from your perspective what in your Dayplay you think is Obv-Town.

There's the fact that I don't do remotely unconventional things as scum that don't involve claiming, so I wouldn't have played follow SpyreX on day one as scum. On day two if I was scum I would've given absolutely no fucks about his country claim, and then today I only throw AtEs like this as town, I've tried to fake it as scum in the past but it's never been close to capturing my town irritation.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sheeping Spyrex is hardly unconvential for you - you sheeping is pretty standard DDD behavior and is easy to replicate as scum. The only reason I gave it so much attention Day 1 is you chose Spyrex who is either scum or just terrible and your reasoning made no sense.

Giving 'two-fucks' about a country claim is an easily faked stance so that hardly is compelling or unconvential.

AtE - nope I don't give two fucks about you trying to sell that as a Town tell.

Don't worry I knew you weren't going to listen at all; you, Glork, and GreyICE are all in alpha dog, "I can't possibly be wrong" mode so I could've laid out a thirty game town meta detailing the reason for every post I made and you would've brushed it aside. Just an FYI, it takes more stones to step back and admit you might be wrong than to buckle down and insist on being wrong.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So who is going to step up? Who is going to show some courage and back off this miserable lynch instead of getting sucked into the void of irrationally wrong confidence? There has to be someone who is voting for me already who actually has a fucking spine.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Funny you say this because are still softly floating the concept that our slot could be anything but Town today (we are not Town reads on your wagon and despite you saying "We need confirmation" the MoI faked his Masonize was clearly pointing in that direction) is indication that you haven't yourself done anything of the sort.

I'll fully admit to not thinking you were town when this day started, I will fully admit to wanting confirmation once you claimed again; now that I have it I'm not going to vote for you today, or tomorrow, or at all unless I'm given some majorly compelling reason to vote you. See how the facts changed and my opinion changed, yeah.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No I just want to know if this is how he acts if a wagon is on him. I want to know if he's the type of player who never claims. Its relevant information.

Road to Wrestlemania.

Unvote, read link, don't plan on re-voting.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So who is going to step up? Who is going to show some courage and back off this miserable lynch instead of getting sucked into the void of irrationally wrong confidence? There has to be someone who is voting for me already who actually has a fucking spine.

Erm, doesn't it take more spine to hammer someone who is basically going all-in with AtE and heavily implying he's a power role?

Nah, no one other than possibly Nikanor is going to be held accountable for this stupidity; there's no incentive for anyone to unvote when they can all hide behind Arrogance Inc.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Courage, Tim, courage.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The thing is I do think Nikanor is scum and I do have extreme reservations about this post

???

I'm not implying anything. I just really think that DDD is scum.

Then let's explore that space; give me a fighting chance Tim. I'm getting railroaded simply because of laziness, arrogance, and the fact that I won't play conventionally here when I know it's not in the town's best interest for me to do so.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Here's a hint - given lots of people feel you are scum no-one really cares whether you think not claiming is 'best for Town'. Town is in a pretty darn good spot right now (and if my set-up theory is correct could be in a much better spot than is generally known). We are hardly in a position where things are dire.

Ah so you plan on pulling a Scummies Winvitational and since the town is ahead you can fuck up as many times as you want until suddenly the town loses; clever strategy.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p2168528

Sure I've tried to fake the same reaction before as well, doesn't exactly work when there's actually a cop guilty on you. Note the "didn't claim" thing didn't come into play there and I've only not done that as town; if that town had asked for a claim I probably would've given them one.

~~

And if Glork quickhammers given my softclaim I reserve full rights to mock him forever.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

unvote
vote: nikanor

I'm glad I have an office and not a cubicle so no one just saw the triple fist pump I just did. We can do this, si se puede, yes we can.

And Tierce, what I want to know is why Nikanor is likely town?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your unvote is terrible ... I'll be mocking you endlessly for it when DDD is eventually found to be scum.

Well then, Tim is officially safe from mockery.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDDP - We don't. That's why I said likely.

Can't say I have any sort of faith in LLD here given what I know and how strongly I disagree about SpyreX and how she's sloppily sitting on the wagon of awful.

VOTE: Tammy

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

By the by:

I am still town.
Tierce and Glork are still awkward claim town.
SpyreX is derpy mistake town.
MoI and dana are mason-town.
Tim is *shows fucking courage* town.
TSH and Toasty are still VCA town

KKB, Tammy, and Nik top my list of most likeliest scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nik and LLD are pretty obviously linked

They will probably claim masons

With a claimed masonizer in the game? Doubt it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

She had a lot of heat D1

She only got to like L-8 or so.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

My "processes" are probably above your head, no offense

Lulz ...

Given that your processes are "be stubborn and wrong" I'm thinking Tim's actually right on this one.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nice buddying though - did you tired of hugging Spyrex's nutsack and wanted a new one to fondle?

Well yeah, I would've hugged yours except your play today shows you haven't got one.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I have another question, why did the Tammy wagon originally fall apart? Looking back it's filled with lots of town names and no confirmed scum.

@Tierce, and we trust that LLD is town as well?

You had me until here. I thought everything you were saying seemed to come from a town mindset and then this. Why not look at why the Tammy wagon started. Because someone didn't like my personality and others sheeped on.

You look like you're

flailing

instead of trying to find scum, which is sad. I thought you were town.

More interesting is the disproportionate rate at which scum accused other players (especially town!) of flailing. Voting people for accusing town of flailing, it turns out, would've been a more reliable basis for a lynching-vote than voting flailers, themselves. Scum seem to use it as an efficient rhetorical device-of-choice to contribute to the game and push lynches.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ddd how do you feel about any or all of greyice/hazevengmage/lld?

Scummiest to towniest is probably LLD, GreyICE, Hazevengmage. LLD looked to push responsibility away from my wagon and I disagree with the points where she's apparently most confident, while at least GreyICE was willing to own his mistake of being on my wagon, benmage is more wait and see at this time.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

GreyICE was willing to own his mistake of being on my wagon

?
how so exactly, he's still voting you and everything.

also i kind of hate trying to parse reads from other people because of wagons on themselves soo any words on greyice that don't involve that?

Sorry, he's not owning the mistake; he's owning the fact that he's voting for me (which is a mistake) instead of using someone else as cover.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

also i kind of hate trying to parse reads from other people because of wagons on themselves soo any words on greyice that don't involve that?

Spent a lot of time on his own Katsuki vanity wagon after sheeping Glork, a bit odd since I expect him to try and play town leader despite the fact that he's not very good at it. The Katsuki vote is mediocre, UberNinja vote is as well, lots of bad votes beyond that but he votes for Nexus three seperate times and when he gets off it doesn't appear like he's rolling to the next most likely wagon which earns him a decent amount of credit. I wouldn't mind him dead by vig since I imagine he'll be distracted by my very existance for the rest of the game instead of doing something useful but in my pile of non-town reads he's somewhere near the middle of things relative to that group.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Tammy is just off on another planet with her yelling; the things she's trying to attack Tierce for are basic scumhunting things.

Also, I'm with MoI on the Tammy wagon.

vote:DDD

Really, really, really?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I happen to believe Tammy's claim in terms of country and name. I don't think that they're open and shut like other people are suggesting, first our first three scum flips have all been red, but I don't believe that scum are going to be all red, there'll be one or two from some other country. Second, taking a brief peruse of the provided flavor there are some rather uncomplimentary things said about the king of Kelvas and it'd be a likelier country to find a traitor/scum aligned player in. Third, the claimed power has to be a town power but the "use it at night" crowd is forgetting that it'll be drastically harder to confirm at night which doesn't really move the needle either way while using it during the day will pretty much confirm her.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Go get your DDD lynch and then talk about how I should be ashamed.

He's not going to get it, so stop egging him on and try to get him going in a productive direction instead.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Nah, it's cool. We can let DDD live. If I wanted him dead right now, my vote would be on him.

But seriously, there's shit on that Tammywagon.

Not going to complain about this.

But how about we turn that around on you, surely the wagon on me isn't all sunshine and light, who is the scum that's voting for me?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If Tammy is using her ability at night could we use Hindu to confirm that she did in fact actually use her ability? She's town and uses the ability, nothing happens to Hindu, she's confirmed town. She's scum and is bluffing about the power, Hindu attaches to her, she's confirmed scum and we lynch her tomorrow; it sucks that we lose Hindu but we also kill scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If Tammy is using her ability at night could we use Hindu to confirm that she did in fact actually use her ability? She's town and uses the ability, nothing happens to Hindu, she's confirmed town. She's scum and is bluffing about the power, Hindu attaches to her, she's confirmed scum and we lynch her tomorrow; it sucks that we lose Hindu but we also kill scum.

Im pretty sure she's flipped as "Ducked out" via the mod. And tbh, I'd rather not die unless I have to.

Sadly for you, your survival is much less important to me than confirming town or finding scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD activity level increasing by a factor of 20 in response to wagon is interesting.

Reads are a tad -_-

No you can't scare me away by threatening me DDD

If I own the "mistake" of voting you you own the "mistakes" of days 1 and 2.

And that requires me to believe this is PYP DDD on acid.

I'll ignore the first, second, and fifth lines since they don't actually say anything useful and instead note that I never threatened you; the owning your vote comment was a positive in comparison to letting someone else own your vote and I said you were in the middle of all my non-town reads. If calling you the sixth or seventh person I'd lynch is a threat, it's a rather indirect and weak one.

~~

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kanyeknowsbest

Tammy is just a complete and utter space cadet.

And Benmage could use a sharp case of death for that terrible vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ARE YOU SHITTING ME?

DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU?

I INVESTIGATED SPYREX LAST NIGHT.

I AM A NATION COP.

I GOT THE SAME RESULT UBERNINJA DID.

Please explain how a "no result" on SpyreX on N2 is a functional guilty.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I’ve got to fundamentally disagree with LLD’s stance on her results and I’d expect maybe one more true positive at most given all the red scum flips so far and the rest to be sitting in other countries. I think that should’ve been especially evident to her with her claiming a false positive.

I think I’ve figured out what’s up with the SpyreX death and I really wish I would’ve thought of it at the time and that the game would’ve slowed down there to let him survive because I knew he was from Gallia and while there could be Gallia scum it didn’t strike me as likely with SpyreX given our early D2 convo.

Have to agree that UN’s actions don’t make sense from the perspective of a town tracker with any level of competence.

VOTE: UberNinja

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And, what did DDD claim?

I didn't.

Tim, what more did you want me to say? If you were expecting me to confirm I could but it'll only muddle the water, especially right now given that confirming means claiming.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ben, Hindu, Ludi.

That's not a bad list; I'm pretty aggravated with Hindu fucking up the Tammy confirmation. Oh and TSH, this game is moving too fast for you to sit back and consult your other head on everything, at some points one of you just needs to make a decision and go with it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What part of the TAMMY CONFIRMATION did I fuck up? The fuck is this? I was TOLD it would be a good idea and if she would EVER fucking suicide, I'm outta here like PEACE and I'll live in a world of rainbows and sunshine AND she'll be confirmed town forever and ever.

You were told to use your ability at NIGHT when she would be theoretically out of the game and thus your attempt should've failed; thus proving her ability. You used it during the DAY when she wasn't using her ability and thus it told us nothing.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

can't she just prove her ability by using it during the day? like its preeeeetty doubtful she's making that up anyway but yeah.

Somewhere between don't know and probably but everyone was like "no Tammy don't use it during the day, use it during the night" and the Hindu plan was to allow her to do that while still confirming her ability. And I disagree that it's something that could be made up, I've strongly considered a commuter fake claim as scum before.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

...........


THIS GAME.

My ability is on her 24/7 for THE REST OF THE GAME.

It doesn't matter WHEN she uses her ability, I DIE. That's that, no if's, but's, and everything else.

Your ability is completely irrelevant to the discussion, the point was to prove whether someone with an action could target her at the time. Since your action is worthless, the point was to target her without squandering a decent action in the process.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The point was to confirm she actually used her ability, thus confirming her as town.

Yes, which unless I'm mistaken you didn't do.

~~

Ben it was because Nikanor faked like he had something on me (and because my play the first two days was my typical lazy self) so the wagon filled to critical mass with a bunch of sheep and then when I managed to break it and Nikanor was forced to admit he didn't have anything it finally broke apart.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If Tammy is using her ability at night could we use Hindu to confirm that she did in fact actually use her ability? She's town and uses the ability, nothing happens to Hindu, she's confirmed town. She's scum and is bluffing about the power, Hindu attaches to her, she's confirmed scum and we lynch her tomorrow; it sucks that we lose Hindu but we also kill scum.

I was the one who came up with the plan Hindu, I didn't misunderstand.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So when/if she uses it, I'm dead. That's all and well. You're missing the part where she hasn't used it. There was no "Hindu fucked up the plan". If we both used our abilities at night and pre-planned the confirmation, I would've said my last words on D2 or whatever and scum would have a chance of roleblocking either of us and making shit hit the fan. If it was pre-planned what night we BOTH used our abilities, then it's flawed.

And Tammy confirms you fucked up the plan. Go read the post I quoted where I proposed the plan and then think about how what you did is not what I suggested.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Are we sure that it's a scum ability?

DDD said he had a role that was confirmable right? Although he hasn't been back around.

1, 2, 3 Not it. Oh and if we do massclaim at some point and I'm still alive I need to at least partial claim early in the order btw.

Would vote GreyICE, but I'm not rushing a day so that TSH and Rhinox (anyone else?) don't say a single word.

Nikanor's flavor information is helpful since as I've already said I think we're beyond or approaching the point where we've flipped all the red scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Grey, why did you not claim initially when Glork and LLD asked? It should've been clear that your wagon wasn't going to just vanish and unlike Nikanor's fakery on me someone actually was claiming a significant role related reason for your death.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Okay, look folks, here's how it comes down. LLD CAN CONFIRM ME.

Now if we let that happen,

1) scum shoot LLD, who is not part of their kill list, 99% likely.
2) scum shoot me. I'm confirmed Sanaki, you save a lynch (use it on gamma, not Tim).
3) scum let me become confirmed town

What is the downside here?

No, LLD can confirm your country and your list also omits the possible to likely existance of a scum roleblocker.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alright so I checked with Vi and it turns out the message I received was only referring to a failed neighborizer.

Which means

vote:Benmage

is better. Getting a message that says he's too intimidating to neigborize AND the lack of a kill means he's just as viable if not moreso than Grey.

Didn't you claim yours to be a day action?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

WOOOOO.

HAI GUYS.

Gamma we rock.

VOTE: Benmage

Wrong answer, Glork said wait; we wait.

I believe Benmage, at least partially.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I am not from one of Glork's requested countries and I'm going to claim my ability since I only have so much confirmability from it and because I think it could significantly effect Glork's plans.

Claim: Country Cop

N1: SpyreX - Gallia (Hence why I was annoyed with him when he claimed no country and why I solved the puzzle first)
N2: Tammy - Kilvas
N3: KKB - Crimea
N4: Benmage - Begnion
N5: Glork - (I have a result, I am not claiming it in deference to Glork, I will at his request)
N6: Hindu - Begnion (Like LLD I forgot that Hindu had apparently country claimed)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Umm...you didn't think to counterclaim?

Of course I thought to counterclaim, I decided at the time the odds were too great that there in fact could be two country cops and multiple false positives and negatives. Given the number of claims we've had I'm not sure that's accurate and felt it would be best to get that information on the board now with Glork planning things and seemingly depending on LLD's ability.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

N1: SpyreX - Gallia (Hence why I was annoyed with him when he claimed no country and why I solved the puzzle first)
N2: Tammy - Kilvas
N3: KKB - Crimea
N4: Benmage - Begnion
N5: Glork - (I have a result, I am not claiming it in deference to Glork, I will at his request)
N6: Hindu - Begnion (Like LLD I forgot that Hindu had apparently country claimed)

Why did you target each of the players you targeted?

N1 was SpyreX because I was following him on D1 and wanted to make sure that I wasn't wrong and following scum. N2 was Tammy mostly because her early wagon was filled with town reads and because I didn't think much of her votes either. N3 and N4 were both picking up information on lurker replacements. N5 I was running low on people who I was actively suspicious of and I wanted to make sure that Glork's country fish wasn't just scum looking for information and N6 was Hindu because as I mentioned yesterday/two days ago I hated his involvement with Tammy and didn't remember that he had country claimed.

Okay. Thaaaaat's pretty much exactly what I figured was going to happen. DDD, please tell me exactly what country you are from.

If you say so and Crimea.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, what's this confirmable shit?

Everyone on that list except Tammy has claimed their country.

I was vastly more confirmable before Vi modkilled two of the people I had investigated; next time I'll tell him not to modkill all of my investigations. That being said, I do have a confirmable result and if you look back I certainly hinted at my role and information I had several times.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Further, what kind of investigations are those? Tammy was pretty much town by N2. You investigated Glork N5 after he had been TURNED TO STONE?

The investiagtions he's giving are closer to what I would expect a scum rolecop to be doing.

And with the Hindu thing today, I feel certain that DDD didn't rolecop last night. Instead he chose to make the kill on Alchemist, and let his buddy the RB take his turn.

If Tammy was so town by N2 why was she picking up votes on D3 and got pressed to claim? And the Glork investigation made a lot of sense between the country fishing and GreyICE using an annoyance ability on him which could easily have been WIFOM.

And the last three lines here aren't grounded in reality at all, they're completely unsupported jabs.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

That said, even if you are a country cop, there's no guarantee of your alignment, and your play hasn't sat well with me.

Oh I'd love to hear how my play has actually been scummy outside of D1 where I was in cruise control; nobody actually gave any reasons in their rush to judgement on D3 and this should be good for a laugh.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your behavior towards my country soft claim attempts were both unique and consistent with how scum are expected to react to town wanting pseudo-information.

I'm not sure what this actually means.

Your behavior regarding Oman/Nexus is something I've already gone over.

I'm pretty sure you made the exact same play; given the information we had at the time it was the sensible play regardless of alignment.

Your reaction to tr near-lynch on you isn't as strong a tell for me, but doesn't feel like a genuine town reaction. I will need to look over this one, though.

You really do because if you think that was a scum reaction you really aren't in touch with how I play.

I also haven't parsed your D5/D6 play, but to be frank, right now I'd expect DDDtown to be more interested in a holistic, team-oriented solution to winning the game as opposed to just playing appease-the-Glork.

I'm not interested in appeasing you; I'm giving you the best shot to put together a working plan possible. I could've held back my information/role because there was no need for me to claim there but instead I think it makes sense for you to be working off the most accurate information possible. And if I think your plan sucks I'll tell you, not just blindly go along with it but I can't evaluate something I can't see.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So, he learns that I'm from Kilvas, which is a non-Daein country, and who does he choose to start his counterwagon on?

I think I've made it very clear that I don't think scum is entirely from Daein and that there are numerous false positives and negatives and when I examined the provided flavor for your country it seemed one of the more likely choices for non-Red scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Questions for DDD: At the time Grey stoned me and then flipped Daein, did you find a scum-gambit between us to be likely? What advantage would stoning scumGlork have given over someone like TSH, LLD, etc., who also have relevant roles/abilities, aside from "town cred"?

Because from my perspective I had no idea the ability would stretch over night and I didn’t even think that it would effectively roleblock you which apparently it did? Which meant I was considering more the WIFOM potential than its use as an actual scum ability.

So why aren't you giving me your input as to who are scum, who to lynch, how to handle unresolved claims/abilities, etc.? You can say you don't want to appease me until you're blue in the face, but I don't see you working towards a solution. I just see you giving me answers you think I want to here, and nothing more.

It certainly doesn’t help that you’ve already fucking back-footed me and thrown me on the defensive. When the first words out of your mouth after my claim are, “I think there’s one scum left and either DDD is solo scum or LLD + one”. And then somehow you’re surprised when I shift into survival mode?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD's countrycop list is laughable. He's today's lynch.

In what sense is what I listed laughable?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

All people who have already flipped, claimed, or been targeted by LLD?
You're a mafia country cop who's offering up ONE country that we don't already have~

I'm confused, you're seem to be arguing that my list is completely faked and then you go ahead and call me a (scum) country cop anyways; that doesn't logically follow.

Please people, don't turn off your brains and try to shift into easy mode when we're not there.

~~

Does anyone else want to claim Daein-town? Speak now or forever hold your tongues.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Hmph. You mean "I believe Benmage, at least partially" (left deliciously ambiguous, but you could argue this refers to the blue colour)
I can see that BUT if he's scum faking country cop, he'd still believe Benmage, at least partially, right?

Right and I didn't say basically the exact same thing about Tammy on D3 when her claim matched the results I got for her. Oh wait, I did.

As for the SpyreX claim, meh--you didn't exactly need a result to make the green = Gallian connection, I'm proof of that.

True enough, but I think if you go back and look at my posting in that time period given my claim things make sense.

Basically my N1, N2, and N4 results are matched to things I said in thread, my N3 investigation makes sense in terms of who I would investigate, my N5 investigation has been authenticated by Glork (though he's unduly skeptical) and I admit I messed up N6. Like Gamma said, if you want to argue I’m a scum country cop on other grounds you’re wrong but go for it but the idea that I’ve lied about my ability at all is sheer nonsense.

~~

Tierce, remember this infographic



I found the idea of two town country cops plausible with lots of unknowns still in play when there were lots of possible false positives and negative as an option and the fact that Vi isn’t afraid to design against site meta. Furthermore, if LLD got killed that would’ve solved the problem for me and I figured there was little to no chance of me dying during the night so I could always claim later.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

the idea that I’ve lied about my ability at all

Uhm. Did I do this?

No, I was just using your comment as a jumping off point to lecture TSH, et al.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your continual bringing up the idea for me to use my ability during the day to confirm myself and leave myself completely vulnerable at night makes this possibility more likely to me.

This isn't really accurate, my first and only goal is confirmation of your ability. You should note that I proposed a plan to allow you to use your ability at night and for Hindu to confirm it; except that Hindu fucked the plan up. Given that your claim is the reason you were really let off the hook on D3 and we've had no independent verification of said ability I think it's reasonable to want to see the proof.

Almost every single member of the scum team has come back red - from Daein. Duplicity came back blue and self-aligned. GreyIce, however, came back not red. He came back from Hatari, and the flavor on the first page says that she has ties to both Serenes and Daein and hasn't picked a side in the war.

Interesting, so one person did come back not solely red. Tell me, what led you to come up with this theory that at least one member of the scum team would come back not Daein?

Mod meta, if all scum were red my role would function as a fairly normal cop. Vi hates normal cops and thus the only logical assumption is that the role is useful but not a red = scum = lynch lynch lynch and not red = town = never lynch scenario. I think this is also one of two possible conclusions we can draw from LLD's continued existance, if she's not scum clearly scum must not believe she's actually a significant threat to them or she would've likely been blocked or killed at some point which suggests that our role has limited utility at this point.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I find it rather interesting that he uses as a reason for why he investigated me that he didn't think much of my votes. Does he mean the votes I placed? Day one was MoI (fine he was town), Implosion (scum), Quilford (town and who I moved to to get a lynch). Day two was Nexus (scum who I only moved from because of the arguments put forth to give another day and a lack of a counterclaim), and Oman and Nexus again.

So, what was so wrong with my votes?

Also, noted, you didn't answer this question DDD.

There's nothing OMG she's scum about the votes, but you moved off scum onto a town mislynch and while I've said the Nexus/Oman movement isn't inherently scummy it's not town either it's just rational. All in all the votes certainly are the sort where you have lots of question marks and make for a good investigation.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, who do you think are the scums, and why?

Ordered from top to bottom in terms of town scum even within the lists.

Don't think I'll vote today under any circumstances

Debonair Danny DiPietro
Danakillsu
Teleporting Speed Hippos
Glork
Tierce

Really kind of wish they were dead because I don't trust them and their abilities as far as I can throw them

Lady Lambdadelta
Hinduragi
Tammy

Lots of irritating little things, but enough town stuff to keep them from the bottom

singersigner
Gammagooey
Nikanor
Katsuki

Did you know that ML hasn't voted for scum all game unless Tammy is scum; And Toasty was blocked the night of a missing kill

Magister Ludi
ToastyToast

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Can we just go with Glorks plan? If DDD doesn't flip scum, we'd still clear a lot of things up. And yes, I realize that I am implicated with the Alchemist roleblock and such but I really feel clearing up LLD/DDD will give us the win.

Except Glork's plan is basically a lose the game special if both LLD and I are town and since I'm town we're halfway there.

Gamma actually has it right that I'm just rolling my eyes at Glork, he tossed out three reasons why I was scum, one which required further explanation he didn't give, a second which I countered, and a third which amounted to a significant misreading of my playstyle and an admission that he hadn't looked critically at my actual play in the later days of the game. It simply comes down to the fact that there's two claimed country cops except it completely ignores that I claimed today completely unprompted knowing this would be the result that I'd be fighting for my life. If I were scum why would I claim today other than WIFOM, it's seriously a nonsensical play that I wouldn't either try to delay my claim even further or come up with a fake claim that wouldn't give me so much grief.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Like I have seriously no idea what's going on in Glork's head. He seems stubbornly insistent on keeping my name in his mouth but he doesn't bother to respond or comment on the variety of things I and others have pointed out that call into question both the idea that I'm scum and that one of LLD and I have to be scum. And then there's the whole country claim where he's called the person he's looking for scum for the past day but suddenly he's shown no interest in following up with dana to get an explanation for that or a reason for him not claiming when Glork first asked for claims from those countries.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Like I have seriously no idea what's going on in Glork's head. He seems stubbornly insistent on keeping my name in his mouth but he doesn't bother to respond or comment on the variety of things I and others have pointed out that call into question both the idea that I'm scum and that one of LLD and I have to be scum. And then there's the whole country claim where he's called the person he's looking for scum for the past day but suddenly he's shown no interest in following up with dana to get an explanation for that or a reason for him not claiming when Glork first asked for claims from those countries.

rtft, scumbag

No, you?
Yeah, that feels right.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Glork: I have sent my action in on LLD, but there is nothing that says I can't change it. Also, I have considered the two of them throughout the day and feel LLD used her power in a much more protown way. She copped Spy and claimed because she had no result, and thought it was suspicious that UN didn't have a result either. This is a protown action, much more protown than waiting until today.

Good point, using your ability to push through town lynches is an invariably pro-town thing to do.

I like that again like D3 the most dubious players are quickest to jump to vote for me; LLD, Toasty, and ML have probably been most discussed for a lynch today other than me and suddenly they're all on my wagon, wonder how that happens.

I'm still not sure how Dana's ability works because I'm not sure he does, he's "supposed" to find out about nations but didn't when it came to MoI. And apparently he targets a player and the ability works on people targeting the player he targeted? At least that's what I'm getting from 4896.

Finally, if we do indulge Glork and the day has to become LLD vs. DDD; ignoring the variety of things about my play that don't make sense as scum if you people lynch someone claiming to be from Crimea over someone claiming to be from Daein then you've overcomplicated things to a degree the end result of failure is deserved.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Since you're here, DDD, how do you feel about a town with four informational roles, one of which is confirmable as being protown?

If we have two more scum and say neither of them are Daein that means between the two country cops we could only catch half of the scum team as guilties and there would be a false positive on LLD, so that if she hadn't claimed and I had investigated her and claimed my result she would've been lynched without a second thought, furthermore a tracker in a 29 player game is pretty damn unlikely to actually track the scum kill which is the only way he could get a guilty, we're talking like a 12% chance over the first 3 nights, now the role certainly has some utility in terms of confirming abilities but that obviously doesn't really mean anything and finally Dana's ability apparently lacks any sort of fine control because it returns results based on players targeting the player he targets which means he can target players likely to be targeted it's pretty much a crapshoot in terms of what results he'll get. That's really not the overpowering amount of town information you suggest it is for a 29 player game.

~~

PEdit: I will lynch LLD to save my own hide since she's more likely to be scum than I am but I'm not going to simply disregard my assesment of town power for yours because you want me to.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If we have two more scum and say neither of them are Daein that means between the two country cops we could only catch half of the scum team as guilties and there would be a false positive on LLD, so that if she hadn't claimed and I had investigated her and claimed my result she would've been lynched without a second thought, furthermore a tracker in a 29 player game is pretty damn unlikely to actually track the scum kill which is the only way he could get a guilty, we're talking like a 12% chance over the first 3 nights, now the role certainly has some utility in terms of confirming abilities but that obviously doesn't really mean anything and finally Dana's ability apparently lacks any sort of fine control because it returns results based on players targeting the player he targets which means he can target players likely to be targeted it's pretty much a crapshoot in terms of what results he'll get. That's really not the overpowering amount of town information you suggest it is for a 29 player game.

That's an awfully big "if" considering your top two claimed suspects are people who we have no country knowledge of... I like how you're trying to justify the existence of an abundance of town investigative power through speculation that the remaining scums are non-Daein. Do you have reason to believe that Ludi and/or Toast are non-Daein? If so, why? If not, why are you trying to paint them as non-Daein scum?

Look, there are two possible conclusions we can draw from LLD's continued existance and the fact that she keeps getting results:

1) Either LLD is scum

2) LLD is town and scum don't consider a country cop to be a threat to them from the the point where LLD claimed onwards.

~~

Now the first would certainly be more convenient for me because I'd pretty much be auto-town at that point. However, despite the inherent badness of her play (at least in regards to me [and SpyreX]) her claim keeps me from thinking the first is more likely. If she was going to run a Miller gambit why wouldn't she open the game with that information as is conventional? Because she is in fact a town country cop and didn't expect to get investigated because she didn't expect a second town country cop. So because I lean LLD town, the only logical conclusion is the second and that implies non-Daein scum. In this case that does conveniently circles around to support my hypothesis that the listed town power is not unreasonable.

Also, let me challenge you with this; why is that amount of town power absurd but people have been much less critical of two town roleblockers and an apparent scum roleblocker? Doesn't that seem like a lot of roleblockers?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I certainly think that 2 town, 1 scum RB is far more likely thank 4 protown investigative roles. And you know what else is more likely? 3 town investigatives and 1 scum investigative.

Hey, you know what's certainly possible 4 protown investigative roles and a scum investigative role or two. You know who could've had those scum investigative roles? How about some of the four dead scum or if there's two scum left the non-roleblocking scum? Nope, that's not possible, all of the investigative roles in the game must be alive and claimed right now.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with you, I make a logical argument why your assumptions are wrong and you counter by simply restating your assumption as fact and that always seem to lead back to "DDD = scum". Well your assumptions are wrong in theory and they're wrong in fact and I'm getting a little bit tired of trying to hold a conversation with someone who isn't actually interested in the conversation.

Pedit. Two nights ago they targeted Tammy, huh? Absolutely no chance that Toasty-scum got blocked trying to send in the kill, huh?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And N3, they ALSO killed someone on the list (who was confirmed town to boot), and N4 we can't say for sure, but there's a chance that Grey shot at Tammy as they were trying to catch her on a not-commuted night. LLD has been left alive because there are MUCH higher priority targets. You're suggesting that the scums are making strategically awful decisions for the sake of stopping a power role which might not even hit scum? Pfft.

You know something else I hate, this idea that we know who is on the list. For whatever reason, people have taken Tim's speculation as gospel when I at least have no reason to believe that's the case other than it makes some flavor sense.

I like that your argument is that I'm suggesting scum is making sub-optimal plays when your explanation of N4 is "well they were shooting at a commuter on the off-chance she wasn't commuting". Really? And I'm the one who has to depend on scum making strategically awful decisions to support my ideas?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Oh, so now we're onto the "there could be even MORE bad investigative roles" theory. Fantastic.

I hate playing Outguess the Mod like this generally, but it looks like I'm going to have to get into some game design / setup speculation, when I get home tonight.

You were the one who started it given that you've tried to reduce the day to LLD vs. DDD solely on those grounds.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: Toasty

Need to get some direction going that isn't a guaranteed mislynch. Oh and I'd jump in and answer dana's questions for Kats but that's rude.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: DDD

Mise well.

Yep, when you've got the chance to thoughtlessly pitch the game away, how can you turn that down?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: DDD

Mise well.

Yep, when you've got the chance to thoughtlessly pitch the game away, how can you turn that down?

You know that what I'm doing is not thoughtless. If my train of thought happens to be wrong, I deserve to lose. But I think you're our best shot at hitting scum today.

Not buying it; you're playing outguess the mod and not even bothering to look at my play; that's thoughtless. Lessons from the Winvitational, ignored.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your play indicates that you
A) Coasted through D1

It's what I do; go back and review our two games together or go review the other big theme games I've played; this isn't a scumtell, it's a playstyle tell.

B) Favored Oman heavily over Nexus D2

I mean in hindsight you're right, there's no defense of this. However, you, Hindu, and Tammy at the very least all had similar stances so it's really hard to buy this as an actual tell.

C) Suddenly surfaced during the flashwagon on you, refused to claim, then subsided into the background when the pressure was relieved

Would it have been the town thing to do to roll over and quietly go into the good night? And seriously, I’m scum for not claiming? Both of the scum who were lynched, claimed without any problems, fishing for information or counterclaims but somehow it’s the opposite reaction that’s scummy?

D) Claimed a role with zero confirmable results and "meh-at-best" targets

And yes, I'm speculating on setup here, too.

See, I read D and all I see is, "I don't believe your claim" but then one of your center points is lynching me or LLD because there can't be two country cops. And it’s bullshit because even ignoring the fact that I had confirmable results until a triple modkill, I had a confirmable result on you; you just decided to be an asshole and claim before I could and dismiss my result out of hand AND there’s the fact that I crumbed my N1, N2, and N4 results at the relevant times in the thread.

~~

Things you completely ignore or gloss over:
A) Day two when I bothered to figure out the SpyreX claim issue, as scum I would’ve ignored it and continued to defend him or ignored it and sold him out because why bother if I’m scum?
B) The idea of my day three reaction to my wagon being scum is just absolutely crazy to me; on what planet is that scum play?
.....a. I’m not part of team yells a lot; I can’t fake emotion that well but I think my town anger and snideness comes through pretty clearly here.
.....b. Why wouldn’t I make the country cop claim here when I was at L-1 as scum? It would’ve been so much easier and worst case scenario force an earlier counterclaim.
C) Day three (I think), when I proposed a plan to confirm Tammy as town using Hindu’s ability. That’s a brutal move for scum, especially if we’re playing the “scum want to kill country leaders” game.
D) Day five where I pump the brakes on Tierce voting for Benmage because I had a result on Benmage that I was leaning town on; again, it’s a little thing but why bother defending Benmage at all.
E) And the big one that no one has answered. As scum: why did I claim what I did today and why did I claim it today?
.....a. Surely you people don’t think I’m an idiot and only an idiot would assume that the claim of a second country cop would go over well. Why wouldn’t I fake a different claim to avoid bringing that world of pain down upon myself as scum?
.....b. Let’s assume I am an idiot to a degree and somehow despite a precedent of being pretty good at fake claiming scum I was completely stumped on possible fake claims, why would I claim today when there was no pressure for me to do so? If we’re as close to one side winning one way or another as most people think why wouldn’t I shut my stupid mouth and play for each extra day I could knowing that would help my side?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDDP, you may have done this before, but--please show your crumbs.

SpyreX dialogue: 1738, 1747, 1751, 1756, and 1759

This is supposed to look like just taunting, but it's also me trying to encourage Tim to realize that I was a PR without having to claim it.

Why was I so sure I wasn't getting lynched? Because if worst came to worst I could claim and my wagon would dissolve

Tammy crumb

Confusion on how a no result was a functional guilty, especially when I got a N1 result for SpyreX

Already I'm articulating that I don't think non-red are innocents and red are scum with the confidence LLD displayed, something I actually had to consider given my role. Also note, I say, "I knew he [SpyreX] was from Gallia" in this post because I did.

Another time when I pushed the disassociation of country and town/scum. This wasn't something that I came up with today to justify two country cops, it's been my operating premise since I decided not to counterclaim LLD

And finally believing Benamge just like I did Tammy because my results confirmed what they claimed in terms of country

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think I’ve figured out what’s up with the SpyreX death and I really wish I would’ve thought of it at the time and that the game would’ve slowed down there to let him survive because I knew he was from Gallia and while there could be Gallia scum it didn’t strike me as likely with SpyreX given our early D2 convo.

What did you think was up with 'the SpyreX death'?

I actually forgot about this until now. In Mafia in the Back Room, as town I had an ability where I would target player X and all other players who targeted player X would have their non-kill actions fail. In my mind it made sense that someone with that ability had targeted SpyreX on N2 which would explain the double no result neatly; however it hasn't really come up so no idea if I was right or wrong.

1, 2, 3 Not it. Oh and if we do massclaim at some point and I'm still alive I need to at least partial claim early in the order btw.

Please explain this.

Well obviously if I ended up last in a massclaim then I'd lose all my confirmability; I would need to at least partially claim early in the process so it was clear I wasn't just using provided information.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You mean a Rolestopper variant. I mentioned it in this game already. It's possible it was/is one of the scum's abilities, instead of an actual roleblocker.

I've never seen it given an actual name so that's probably why it didn't register for me that you'd already suggested it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Especially if they know who they need to kill. I still don't think DDD was truthful about his targets.

And I think you're just a paranoia monger who has absolutely no reason to suggest that other than it defames me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

There cannot be 2 country cops. There just can't. I won't subscribe to that BS.

So you have to be scum. And I'm now rationalizing your anti-town investigations that involve all people who have already claimed the only way that makes sense. You're lying.

So if you are actually town your rationale is to take one bad assumption and then because that's not bad enough to layer it with another bad assumption instead of examining the facts in either case. Sounds clever and by clever I mean either from scum or from town with a desire to lose.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If I'm scum, why isn't your vote on me DDD?

Oh Right. Because you're trying to hold out hope that this town will actually lynch outside of your silly counter claim and buy you an extra day.

I've already explained why I wasn't and still aren't sold on the idea of you being scum; it is however looking increasingly likely that I'll have to vote for you out of self-preservation because I'm not seeing any other compelling wagons springing up.

I also find the idea that I'm playing for one more day amusing given that I claimed today to maximize town information under absolutely no pressure. Surely if all I was doing was looking to survive one more day, I would've kept my trap shut, hmm?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You had to claim today or you were dying. You had no choice.

And if your claim wasn't "confirmable" then you were dying.

This was legit your only choice.

Perhaps you could try to limit your arguments to things that actually happened in this game and not about some convenient parallel reality where that might've actually been the case.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ddd claimed confirmable role day 3, then claimed country cop today although he HEAVILY crumbed his targets on several days since then.
lld claimed d3 to get spyrex lynched because she got a no result on him n2, and claimed results on nik n1, me n3 i think, hindu d6, and i forget the rest.

AV said something about Miller cop.

~P

LLD claims to be a country cop, town, and from Daein.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Magister Ludi

~

PEdit. Jesus fuck, Tierce had me write up a big fucking wall of my crumbs and country cop related play; go look at it Katsuki instead of herping and derping about.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Although DDD - Why did you investigate Spyrex on night one? He was such a strong town read of yours, you were willing to sheep him. Seems an odd choice. If you answered this already, sorry, but I'm not going to go look back.

Because it was a read based on his early activity which steadily declined as the first day went along; and he certainly wasn't a universal town read where he was going to die or someone I wouldn't have to worry about him. Made more sense to check him and clear him to a degree then to leave it as a question mark.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

How did his play deteriorate over the course of D1 (and, really, whose play

didn't

deteriorate over the course of D1)? Also, why investiagte him over someone else whose play was questionable D1, but who seemed more

likely

to yield a guilty result? IIRC (and feel free to correct me on this, because I'm doing it from memory), you wanted Dramonic dead, and even late in the day would follow Spyre around. What makes you decide to investigate someone you have a moderately town read on, in favor of someone you have a desire to lynch?

My read on SpyreX was primarily based around activity; in the League he was most active in about everything on D1; in Back Room he was active but only barely in the top half on D1 and was scum. He started D1 as the most active player, but he slowly started to sink down the list as D1 wore on and I wanted to make sure I wasn't just chasing a phantom. And even if he had a lesser chance of coming up guilty, I think removing the question mark was still exceedingly valuable because if I was wrong and never checked my assumption that would've been worse.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

lld claimed daein. like country daein not aligned with daein, so she shows up as equivilent to guilty if say there were another country cop in the game.

kats.
ddd even made a big post detailing every breadcrumb he ever made. read it.

I did.

I just realized something I missed the first time round.

Anyways,

Vote: DDD

Ooh sorry, you missed something this time around as well.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

godamnit this is just going to wind up as half the people who are barely reading the game not showing up or saying anything and then me or hindu or some other fuck having to hammer ddd to get a lynch.

Still don't think ddd makes any sense as daein. ddd and ludi both i guess make sense as third party but if theres another third party and we're about to lose the game because of it then this game is horseshit.

Fuck the first part; there's no way an unknown mechanic of randomness can be that bad because it'd just be crazy poor modding to do that; it'd make two town country cops look positively normal in comparison. I fail to see how my mislynch moves the game forward in any positive fashion other than the middling at best probability that LLD is scum and actually gets lynched after that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Well this is a positive, I expected to be rushed to my death when Vi started posting scary noises. I do admit to being vexed at the Ludi wagon not having enough support, will consider the necessity of moving over to LLD tonight/tomorrow.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

What makes Ludi more likely than LLD? Quite honestly I had scum reads on both of them day one and will listen.

It's just that ML has done absolutely nothing positive this entire game, he hasn't once had his vote on a scum player, hell, he hasn't had his vote on an unflipped player outside of you. And then LLD, if she was going to run a miller claim why not open the game with it instead of waiting until she claimed to do it unless of course she wasn't expecting to be investigated.

That being said, I'm not sure Glork or Hindu are willing to vote ML any more / at all and I'd need both of them to lynch ML. Not sure if the other people currently voting for ML will all move over to LLD as well so maybe both I and the town are just fucked but I need to look over them on those grounds.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'll move to LLD, I don't care at this point.

+ me + Tierce + Hindu = 7

+ TSH? = Lynch

ML isn't going to happen due to Glork/Hindu, this might.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LLD

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Alternatively, we can lynch DDD's self preserving ass.

Seriously? Of course I'm trying to preserve myself, I'm the only player I know is 100% for sure town, it would be the absolute worst play to acquiesce to my own lynch.

Alternatively, we can lynch DDD's self preserving ass.

I can pretty much tell you DDD is 100% town by now. I will bet this game on his alignment if I have to.

Good bet.

~~

At least with a LLD lynch she'll either be scum which is a fine prize or I'll get a minor consolation prize of being right about there being two town country cops.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, even though Glork wants Toasty to block me; who should I be investigating if that doesn't happen for whatever reason?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

LLD is right re: the timeline of events. DDDP had no reason to believe her claim on D3, AND he had an innocent on SpyreX from a claim similar to LLD. It doesn't make sense from town.

UNVOTE: Magister Ludi
VOTE: Debonair Danny DiPietro

L-1.

Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-1) ~ Lady Lambdadelta, ToastyToast, Magister Ludi, danakillsu, Katsuki, Nikanor, Tierce
Lady Lambdadelta (L-3) ~ Gammagooey, Glork, Tammy, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Hinduragi
Magister Ludi (L-6) ~ singersigner, Teleporting Speed Hippos

Green is not an innocent, green is just a likely innocent and I fail to see why I had to immediately think there weren't two town country cops. Remember D2, where I pushed Tammy despite having a non-Red result on her before LLD ever claimed? Yeah, because I don't agree with the one to one association you're making. I wish I could point back to the Batman Marathon game where I made near this exact move as town with a pair of town cops in the game but it was years ago and certainly lost to the sands of time. Make one unconventional fucking move and it somehow overrides every other authentic town country cop move I've made.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You made a post, wherein you YOURSELF claimed that you thought SpyreX was town because you didnt' think there would eb a scum from his country.

You notice how I didn't go, "SpyreX is innocent" when you and UN claimed? And instead asked a question about why a no result equaled a guilty? That's because my read + non-red (and even more specifically Green) meant SpyreX was town, independent of each other they were significantly less important, it was the interaction of the two pieces that meant he was town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm being roleblocked tonight Singer

Still banking on you being dead instead.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm being roleblocked tonight Singer

Still banking on you being dead instead.

It's all you got left scum bag. Bank on it all you like.

I enjoy how you've gone from not wanting to vote me today, to "I'll vote her if I need to" to outright calling me scum. Interesting how your reads change as your life is in danger. I don't think a townie would do that.

I haven't outright called you scum; again, please try to pay attention to this reality and not the one most convenient for you. I'm still banking on persuading the remaining needed players that I'm town because I am and that means your lynch because you're an unknown. A tedious unknown who is persistently wrong.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yeahhhhhh not buying it for a second.

Someone hammer this scumbag.

I like the part where I call you out for inventing something wholecloth and your response is simply to bray for my lynch. Second time it's happened. Facts are such inconvenient things.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Just to keep in this, I still think DDD is the better lynch. I'm going to read over what people said about LLD, but meh. Also, Olympics. My fake internet life may die a bit.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I really should hammer at this point.
but i'm not because i'm drunk.


alarm is set for a little before 6pm tomorrow so if you want to say something say it before then.

You should play drunk more often if it helps your judgement like this.

~~

Singer, you said you'd vote for LLD, time to put your money where your mouth is.

Tierce, seriously, you were reading me right all day and then that ruins things? That was why I think LLD might be town now, I thought it was possible at the time because it was an unprompted claim and her result was verified by UN. Basically one of them could've been scum, but certainly not both and I thought UN was more likely scum of the pair. Her claim only made it more realistic than it wouldn't be unbalanced. Go back and look at that big wall you asked from me, look at the additions you made; that's not the plays scum make.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: DDD

You're an idiot, yes you are. At least I don't have to constantly defend myself and can go enjoy the taste of wild duck cooked in honey.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

First off I do want to apologize for not counter-claiming LLD near immediately, guess there's a reason the conventional wisdom is understood to be conventional. I guess if I was designing the setup I would've done several things differently and that biased my perspective.

This group is completely useless and went into turn their brain off mode way too early: ToastyToast, Magister Ludi, danakillsu, Katsuki, and Nikanor. Because I was signalling town as hard and as often as I know how.

Tierce and Glork hurt because they were both right for so much of the critical day. Tierce was probably the only reason we got as close as we did on D7 standing behind me and then for her to flop on me hurt. And Glork was right about one of LLD/DDD being scum which I didn't want to accept and he even got which one of us was scum right initially but then hammered me basically to get any lynch instead of the right lynch.

~~

Vi, I think I mentioned it in passing but while I agree with the neccesity of the modkill it was something where you completely outsmarted yourself and created a potential hazard where one didn't need to exist. Additionally, while the core of the game might have been interesting to rehabilitate I'm not sure it works that well even after rehab. Furthermore, the blue numbers of doom was a completely bad idea; with the battery mechanic the town has some idea of what to expect, here we were completely in the dark and designing a mechnic around how a single town behaved to a different mechanic probably isn't the best idea.

Absolutely no regrets in playing the game in terms of design or playerbase but if offered the chance to do it again I probably would not accept.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

http://forum.mafiascum.net///viewtopic. ... 5#p4161535

no more fist pumps ddd?

Losing does not get fist pumps. Though it was great to break that wagon without claiming and I was impressed that you were actually willing to make that dynamic read. Too many players, including good ones and myself, are too stubborn when things change.

You made a critical error in the game. 3, actually.

Not counterclaiming me
Postulating I could be town
Claiming Crimea (though you couldn't know this would be a mistake).

Beyond that, you played a lot better than... Say.... Dana? Nik? ML? Uber?

A lot of townies who weren't so townie.

I want to apologize for all the mudslinging on that last day. I felt it was necessary to achieve my wincon, and I might have gone a little far?

I mean the first was obviously a critical error. I actually don't think the second was an error in that it could've been true and if say I'd pushed you as scum on D7 I think I would've been lynched without a second thought becuase why didn't I counterclaim if I thought you were not town? I mean maybe I should've called you scum when you went into meltdown and made the post that tricked Tierce because I thought that was a scum post but at that point the game had basically been decided except for the tears. And the last, I can't say an honest claim with the information I had was a mistake, I did a better job of keeping quiet until the last possible moment than basically anyone else.

I find the yelling in the post that you made that swayed Tierce exceedingly tedious but I didn't actually bother reading it because of that but personally I have no issues with anything you said.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I do want to apologize to DDD for choosing wrong on the last day. I was really debating back and forth. I really didn't expect LLD to be going RAWR FULL 1V1 MODE because DDD was the last target. Pretty much everyone had (erroneously) concluded that Tammy was a target... that was really what tipped me back to voting DDD, and obviously in retropsect I'm really frustrated that I didn't push LLD harder.

Like I said, you and Tierce get a pass from the rest of the clowns who voted me because while they sucked you both were large reasons why we even had a chance on D7. It makes things personally disappointing that you went against your better instincts (mostly I think because with the move your personal life is hectic) and took the easy lynch but part of the problem was that we didn't know we were in LYLO. Nothing to apologize for, just do better next time.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm not getting exactly how me not getting any town feelings from you makes me braindead, DDD. :/

Your postulations of LLD-town in a day where it was pretty much either you or LLD was odd too, felt like you wanted to delay the country cop flips.
And the CONFIRMABLE ROLE and how you went about claiming just felt scummier than LLD.

Oh well.
UN, you really need to try and stop thinking that everyone is out to get you... I mean, I knew that the shit you did coming from you was more likely to be town, but tbh, that list looked entirely like a scum tracker list...

Not braindead, but yes, you turned your brain off. I think it says a fair amount when Glork and Tierce apologized and then compare the four others on my wagon: you, Nikanor, ML, and danakillsu versus gamma, TSH, Tammy, and Hindu, which four were engaged and the vastly better town players in this game. And again, my role was confirmable until triple mod kills which I had no control over and you just made the easy/lazy mistake of different = scum. It goes back to basic things I said on D7, why would I claim when I didn't need to and why would I claim a redundant power role when I didn't need to. Both those things were completely unnecessary and a death trap and town honesty makes a billion times more sense than scum WIFOM.