SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[Cephrir]

Hello friends.

I'll be catching up tomorrow most likely.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir embarks on a high-flying, swashbuckling adventure through time and space

Pedit: I don't like Xombie. Gut.

Mhm. He was a mite awkward. I wouldn't say he's the only one bugging me so far though.

TSO's posts felt awkward but not alignment indicative.

did they

His 'hi' is super sketch.

is it

You're weird. Bring back TSO.

Important stuff: Should we claim our neighbourhoods now or keep them hidden until later?

I was just thinking about this myself. One thing I'm concerned about is something that happened in Final Fantasy where we got all hung up on the neighborhood stuff and it distracted from scum hunting. Though since these are predetermined neighborhoods and we all know they exist then it might not end up being the same problem?

Didn't a game desperado ran have neighborhoods pre-setup? Was anyone here in that game? How was that handled?

As a wise man once said, "I'm gonna put this out there now, I am literally dayvigging the first person to suggest that anyone is any alignment solely because they are in X neighborhood. I will cut off your sex parts and feed them to you."

btw i think solar wind and ft are town

I think FT is town! I am not going to give F-16 an easy read ever again but he certainly *looks* townish by page 5.

Just so we're clear.

/confirm. Holy fuck we drew town. FT, how about you?

We didn't, not that you cared anyways.
It's fine, I didn't really want to play with you anyways

Well if you didn't, I'll find out soon enough now I have experience with not only yours but Tammy's scumgame as well.

Are you quaking in your boots at having to deal with me/Ffery hydra?

The person who makes this post, if town, does not turn around and ignore this post:

Heheh that's what you thought before Fantasy Camp. >_>

I don't know if Nacho or I are ones to quake in our boots but I think if we did draw scum, we'd see this post, look nod on gchat and proclaim "Challenge Accepted"

Are you quaking in your boots having to deal with a me/nacho hydra?

Though Nacho is a horrible horrible troll who is a not nice hydra partner. I was telling him last night how much I hoped we'd draw town because I just don't have the energy to play scum right now, and what do I come home to? A log of him apologizing that we drew scum, who our partners were and what our role was. Fucker. Give him a virtual kick. My heart dropped with disappointment.

I was on edge about drawing scum since the point we signed up to the point we received our role PM because I didn't want to disappoint Ffery by causing our slot to get lynched early but I was so fucking elated when we saw our role PM.

I hope so! And I hope if so we find each other early and can work together. Ffery and I keep saying that we need to work together sooner when we're town reading each other to wreck scum teams. And I was telling Bulbazack last night that I haven't been happy with most of my town games from the past year and need to fix some of the things that have been bringing it down, and I'm hoping this is one of the games that I can turn some of that stuff around in.

And then make this post:

Not sure. I don't feel the townvibes that I'm hoping you and Tammy would give off if you are town yet. There's one other thing that bugged me but I'm going to hold on to it for now and discuss with Ffery. In the meantime, I want to see obvtown Nacho and obvtown Tammy.

Because if you think you actually know what either of our scum games are like. And think your meta is so great that you know how to read us "soon enough", doesn't ignore the town dripping from our posts and claim they concern you while ignoring a post that you should have responded to.

Why haven't either of you posted in the neighborhood yet?

Well, that kinda came out of left field. You're saying this about a townread apparently? I'll agree that your posts have been dripping town. I think, anyway. But I'm sure as hell not reading either of you off five pages. I've learned both of those lessons the hard way.

seriously there has to be room for the buttfuck somewhere else

This is true love. Regardless of alignments. We will lynch each other with tears in our eyes and rents in our souls should it come to that.

Removed the double quote. I assume you only meant to quote that once?

Your relationship absolutely baffles me.

This is not a who is more town slap contest, and I refuse to get into that.

Listen, Tammy.
I know this isn't a who is more slap contest for you, and I understand that. You have the luxury of being universally townread every game and town beyond town: it's like a mercy killing when you don't get into slap contests because you know you're going to win. Now, think of me AKA the little man. Every day and every night I put countless hours and typing into these fingers just trying to get someone to trust me, just trying to get that next piece of edge but I don't need that anymore, I'm a leaf on the wind and I'm soaring into the friendliest meadows with the nicest rivers and it's legitimately just a gorgeous view when I can do whatever the hell I want and still I'll be town in the end. And it's thanks to you. And I know it's horrible for me to ask for more when you've already given so much, but just let me have this. Please.

This post is so beautiful *sniff*

Casso brought tears to my eyes with cute before but goddamn it this is too sweet~

Ok yeah, I'm not reading anything that gets posted before the game starts.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir sails his ship with casual ease, seeking fame and fortune on the high seas

For Xombie, my feeling is that he was resisting rather than facilitating progress of the game. People can get reads in confirmation stage and his Post 38 felt like he didn't like that there was a lot of content rather than seizing the opportunity to get reads. Now this can be a playstyle tell and a lot of people did similar things to that later and some people are not as aggressive as others in developing reads. But combine that with Post 41 which I really, really hated. While I liked FT's attack on Bitmap, Xombie's "

One too many towns for that song, I think. Overcompensating?

" felt fake on a gut level. I especially didn't like the "

overcompensating

" as it a) felt like a stretch to make Bitmap look scummy, and b) like he was looking for validation of that read by asking it as a question rather than directly attacking Bitmap. Plus the reasoning was super weak in a scummy way even for page 2. FT's attack on Bitmap made much more sense. Xombie's attack boiled down to having too many towns in his post. Then he joking read on T S O for saying "hi" and the "town would add punctuation" in Post 45 and Post 54 felt pretty weak. If he was town stretching for content early game, he'd have commented on something that was actually substantial.

What's your read on him?

First thought was this was a lot of words about someone who's posted so few words, but it ended up making sense.

45 taken alone feels like Xombie saw 40 and 41, read over TSO, saw the "hi," and then commented on it. The direct and immediate response to our potential concerns felt very town. I agree his attempt to justify it later in 54 was scummy, which is why I asked about it.

Nah yo. That's a pretty easy way to look involved.

I noticed what you commented on, though I was in the thick of things with nachotammy. He doesn't concern me at this time, and I feel a little bad for not really acknowledging it.

This rubbed me wrong. Hopefully it's the hydra because I don't know what I expect from out-the-gate ffery but this struck me oddly and now I am not really sure why it did but I'm still going to post this rambling mess about it 'cuz that's how I do

uh okay youre town fine

i think you are f16

your tone is fishy

i think you are scum

VOTE: solar wind

I don't know what to make of this entire interaction (but note from the future: I kinda like the list thing MS is doing, even if it's pretty simplistic)

Most players actually ask my hydra who made a particular post before voting us.

if you're scum theres nothing you can do about it anyway

so dont be twiddling your thumbs

Please, please let this be a real daycop, oh please.

FourTrouble, Farside, Ooba, Brantz, House and Rach are likely town. Discuss.

The list I posted in our hydra PT also included Imperium but townreading Tammy is town means it is harder to mess around with her and I wanted to do it a little longer as telling her about her towniness is boring - she hears it every game nonstop.

Wut

Ooba isn't close to town yet. If he's town I'll probably see it before too long, but not even close yet. Has Rach even posted? If she has it was eminently forgettable.

[Cephrir]

Disclaimer: I don't actually like this song

Disclaimer disclaimer: I will probably continue catching up tomorrow, I'm doing this cool thing where I play mafia almost exclusively at work and it is awesome

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir begins to bond with his crew and learn about their personalities and who they truly are

He said Tammy can town up even as scum. This comes after claiming that Imperium are scary as scum. So, I want that quick and easy Imperium townread explained.

I've been mulling over this. I've seen him develop quick townreads like this before, so the quickness doesn't bother me. But the combination of paranoia + townread is interesting. I'm not sure if it's a town-tell or scum-tell. Part of me wants to say scum would express it differently ("I think Imperium is town but they could be scum because they're scary goood as scum"). What do you think?

231 feels town because of how understated Metal's paranoia is. I don't think scum would have expressed it like that, so he's probably town despite the quick townread on Imperium.

These are both townposting and, surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with them. I'm agreeing with FourTrouble guys, I think we've entered the twilight zone. I think FT is town and as of this point in the read I would have called this my strongest read (but by page 15 I've come to another townread that is about equally strong :OOO)

Or yes, rather. No, it won't work. Yes, I will die.

Okay, so like. From the skimming of the most recent like 2 pages I've done, it looks like you are now saying this was a joke. I have a little bit of a problem with that, because you are actually being quite funny this game, but this particular joke, unless I am missing something that will turn up soon, is not funny. The key attribute of jokes is that they are funny, and I know you are a funny guy, so what gives? Yes, I am implying you might be scum because of the quality of your humor.

Huh must be multiball then. Gentlebird's agreement to not cross shoot each other? Nacho? Cause I'd be a little surprised if this was Tammy.

Now that I have some reason to suspect my cheeky-scumfuck-gut thing might actually have some merit because of reasons, this gives me hives. One of the meta warriors can probably assuage me on at least this front I suppose.

270ish posts in the game and 4 slots have almost 200 posts.

loooooooooooooooool

"Look at me, I am aggressively in-your-face useless! looooooooooooooooooooool"

Total garbage, as is all of the "I refuse to read the game on principle except when someone gets me to iso it apparently and also I have reads on players whose posts I am ignoring" malarkey. If only some brave hero could sweep in and vote this!

Metal Sonic appeased me.

I'm getting paranoid.

I'm leaning town on him though.

I was messing around.

Whuh? Is there some history here that I am unaware of? That didn't read as messing around at all.

Vote: Ankamius

My knight in shining armor has arrived!

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

Cephrir

has +1'd this. Be the next of your friends.

Or something.

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

Pretty much the entire game up to this point feels like noise. It's a few people talking to each other when over half the game has barely had a chance to do close to anything yet.

I also hate it when people play in pre-game, especially for several pages.

Pretty much this entire post feels like an excuse. It's one person talking to himself and spending more effort on babbling about his desire to not read things than it would take him to read them so he could say he's done something yet.

I also hate it when people take stupid stands on some kind of misguided, irrelevant ethical grounds for several pages, as though this somehow absolves them from doing anything.

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

Mudsling? I think I worked out which comment that was referring to and I don't know that mudslinging is a fair thing to call it. It was actually pretty valid as complaints go.

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

Pretty much the entire game up to this point feels like noise. It's a few people talking to each other when over half the game has barely had a chance to do close to anything yet.

I also hate it when people play in pre-game, especially for several pages.

Why do you not like it if people play in pregame, and why would a couple players trying to read each other before "go" frustrate you so?

The same reason that you don't start racing before you're told to start. It's a pet peeve.

I think Solar Wind (ffery) is town and I have a null read on Imperium (Nacho). The reason I have really good town vibes is based on ffery is because how she pegged Rach to be town based pre-game stuff in the neighborhood. Null read on Imperium because I can't figure if him asking me a bunch of questions is being lazy scum or town.

Explain pls

Do you agree with the analysis in question? Do you think there are legitimate reasons it's not in the thread?

Why are you apparently only reading people based on neighborhood things?

Tammy, is it bad of me to feel sorry for you getting jealous of everyone townreading us that you really, really want to be us - the universal townread, that I just want to give you a warm hug and say "

It's okay lil sis. I see how town you are.

"

You're a universal tonread already? Maybe a universal weak townread.

I guess these mild exaggerations are probably Falcon posts.

By #172, I don't like how Metal Sonic interacted with Solar Wind and Imperium, his lack of thoughts on them two, and how he's asking really lazy questions.

I'm going to VOTE: Metal Sonic for the time being due to his wish washy play.

X

He's been doing plenty of other things, and his play is basically the opposite of wishy-washy.

I like games where I don't have to do anything and become obv-town.

i hope you have a role that does that

so that you can like this game.



do you like this game? i like this game.

Metal Sonic is pretty town. This post gave me good feelings, and I still like the other stuff he's been doing-- the town lists, fucking with House, and sticking to his ? - Solar Wind bit; as though he's making the game interesting himself (premise: being scum is inherently interesting).

For Xombie, my feeling is that he was resisting rather than facilitating progress of the game. People can get reads in confirmation stage and his Post 38 felt like he didn't like that there was a lot of content rather than seizing the opportunity to get reads.

The comment comes from me trying to interpret what I thought of Imperium's scum claim. Scum wouldn't do that, right? I could see town. But they've been around the block, maybe they want an endgame ITYS for lols. No, it's town for reaction. No... etc. /head explode

But combine that with Post 41 which I really, really hated. While I liked FT's attack on Bitmap, Xombie's "

One too many towns for that song, I think. Overcompensating?

" felt fake on a gut level. I especially didn't like the "

overcompensating

" as it a) felt like a stretch to make Bitmap look scummy, and b) like he was looking for validation of that read by asking it as a question rather than directly attacking Bitmap. Plus the reasoning was super weak in a scummy way even for page 2.

Seriously? lol...
Have you never seen All About That Bass?
All about that bass, bout that bass, no treble

All about that town bout that town bout that town, no scum

One too many towns for that song, I think.
Overcompensating?

Rough crowd if you think I was actually calling him scum for that. Dang. lol

This post blows. [vulgar joke redacted but I'm a bit of a narcissist at times so I'm still going to mention its existence for attention or something]

Xombie won my heart for all about that bass, it's this generations I like big butts.

:X

Woop woop back to square 2.

Townreads: Bitmap
Null reads: You know who you are.

WTF. Your strongest read is Bitmap for referencing a song.

VOTE: Ankamius
because that's how I feel so far.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir shoots the shit and tosses back some grog with the lads

Looking back, I don't understand why people are voting xombie or have a scum read considering he was right about the reference.

That's all you got from that? I'm pretty sure the main issue was his awkward posts.

Pretty much the entire game up to this point feels like noise

Ya, this is kind of how I've been feeling about it. I keep trying to find a page to start on and I just gloss over all the posts. Potentially cause I'm tired, but its not like the content of anything thats happened is really enthralling. All I get is a medium-vague sense of town from Tammy for doing her whole "LOL LOOK HOW MUCH I CAN SHOOT THE BREEZE, CLEARLY IM TOWN" deal and not much else yet. Sooo you can be a little bit town for having the chutzpah to stand up to the non-believers about their spammy spam.

We are not pleased with this development. I expect you to bring insight to the table.

AP, please tell me you are kidding and not that you are scum again ready to mudsling into oblivion.

I'm not really sure how to respond to this, F16. You telling Tammy that you want to sort them is basically a non-statement. At least to me. The only potential reason I can see myself ever saying that is to try and look invested as scum. I'm not saying you are the same, cause you aren't, but from my PoV its just white-noise and it'd be refreshing to actually see a game in general where people don't just buddy up to people they like for better or worse. Stick your toes in the lake!, run through the sand barefoot! You don't have to always sit under the same tree and tell it that you really want to read it correctly this game. I dunno. Maybe I'm just the odd one out cause I like doing my own thing and I find it annoying when people (notably Especially the Lies) get pissy when I dont interact with them because we know each other. If you say things I find interesting or weird, I'll interact with you! Welp I wrote way too much about this since I don' even think the post in question is really relevant to your alignment in the first place.

This is better.

also xombies returned a not town result but maybe im insane or he's miller right

lololol

Please hold while I stare incredulously...

I mean, lol. Did you really just out yourself as scum to get

ME

lynched? Dude. I was probably the easiest person ever to lynch in here...
You don't actually think insane cop is going to hold up on my flip, do you?

I'm going to attempt to keep reading up but ... speechless.

I think this post is obviously important. What it says, I am not sure. Parts of it work for me. Parts and some other posts could be awkward player syndrome.

Town

13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt)
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho) - Times where I had my doubts and still do - town for now though.
23. Bitmap

Please put pressure on fourth. Good chance we might have scum there.

19. Ankamius

Townish

1. Angrypidgeon - I hope he's town. Like his tone. Also not sure where he's going with the house push - but not sure if scum would choose to push that avenue right now. High level scum players might - so I'm not sure.
21. House - Not strong but leaning town for claim.
17. RachMarie - Weak town - no particular reason.

Null but some thoughts

2. Metal Sonic - Did not like the entry to the thread. Then the 'let's out all neighbourhoods' was town. The leadership\posting after that was town - his list had too many town reads. [But Solar Wind had a similar list - so idk]. Can't call him town for now.
24. Xombie - I can't really place the current vote on MS. Would scum really do that?

I can't tell what this post is trying to say about Ankamius.

Would like to know if, by omission, this means you have no doubt at all about Solar Wind.

The description re: Metal Sonic sounds like a townread, so it's curious that it isn't one.

I may appreciate something else in this post because reasons, but I will need to check something. Don't expect me to follow up on this and don't ask about it.

Not liking ooba's Rach town read.

I can't even ask him to explain it, because he says "no particular reason".

How convenient.

VOTE: Rach

Because teamwork.

(Xombie towned up a bit)

...How did that add up to a Rach vote, and not an ooba vote?

FourTrouble, Farside, Ooba, Brantz, House and Rach are likely town. Discuss.

The list I posted in our hydra PT also included Imperium but townreading Tammy is town means it is harder to mess around with her and I wanted to do it a little longer as telling her about her towniness is boring - she hears it every game nonstop.

FT, House, Rach, farside, ooba, brantz made more sense to me at that time. Ooba stronger than that now, but not then.

Look, I know you guys are probably having a great big reads powwow in your neighborhood or something, but it would be cool if I got to see some of it. You could be pulling half these names out of a hat for all I know. Would like more explanation re: Rach.

Implied scum motivation for complaining about lack of scumhunting is that he doesn't have to do anything, which would be scum motivation because he doesn't have to post, but the players with the biggest voice in the game are the ones doing all the posting and he's making enemies of us as a result, which accomplishes the opposite of what he would have set out to do as scum.

Ankamius is anti-town and lazy; both those make him more likely scum than town. Yes, he might alienate a couple players, but that doesn't change the analysis. Scum can still survive having an enemy or two.

Why rail hard against him as opposed to vezok, who is more antitown and lazier?
I follow and agree when you call him anti-town and lazy, but these two things don't make a good case for scum for me.

Vezok is always abrasive and counterproductive. Ank in my one game of experience actually tries.

(Between FT and Farside with regard to read strength).

Your read strength is weird. Your reads are not.

What do you make of the fact that you think my read strength is weird?

That you're being naive about some things (Farside, ooba) and not realizing the significance of others (Rach, House). Rach opening the game with a completely

different approach from her normal scum game

should be a pretty large town marker, as should the vengeful claim out of the blue from House. Farside and ooba would have a decently easy time posting the things they've posted in thread as scum: both have individual town markers that are much more town and much more reliable than what they've dropped in thread so far.

??

I'd also love to hear what farside's town markers are or why she's town here at all.

ooba I think I can read but my bravado is baseless. Incidentally, I do not have a read on him yet.

Vote: AngryPidgeon

Dude you can't just drop naked votes on AP. That treatment is reserved for the lesser players.

So from the top, Solar winds interactions over the last couple pages are shitty. 453 and 458 are downright terrible and since I've already decided that solar and imperium can't both be town because you're trying to goddamned hard to buddy each other you can be the scum out of the two.

I think fourtrouble is scum too, the ank push is for shit and almost every other post he's made is asking random unconnected questions. Just fyi, lynching someone for being anti town is classic scum play, and vezok is town as fuck.

I'm reserving judgment on the whole xombie/metalsonic debacle. I seem to literally always scumread metal sonic at some point in the game and am usually wrong so I am a bit cautious on this issue.

I have a gut scumread on house that will take some more examining for me to explain to myself and others.

For now, VOTE: solar wind, sup man?

Also we should not out neighorhoods.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

...I cannot even words this. No. Those players are not all scum. Get real please.

^Things like that^ His entire Iso is full of em, I feel no need to quote.

"Stop making me second guess my read." Seriously, that's not a town post. That's buddying at its finest. I pull that shit all the time as scum. It's the I have you as town, but still have some doubt so I must be town.

And 458 is so waffley it hurts. He's like, ank migh be town, but he might be scum, and I had him as town, but maybe I was wrong. The subtext is, "weeellll he WAS town, but there's this thing where there might be a wagon on him and I kind of don't want to stop it."

Vezok is town as fuck because because 411, 463, and 472 aren't posts I can see scum making in this situation. They're too easy to jump on. Now, jumping on them would be shitty, but with a sheepy enough town it might be enough to get lynched and I have enough faith in scum vezok that he wouldn't put himself in that kind of situation this early.

Waffling isn't scummy, you're buzzword scumhunting.

Townreading vezok for bad posts and scumreading the big players for good posts. Hoo boy. Not sure if scum or Titus 2.0.

In other news, I hate Ank slightly less these pages, but am leaving my vote on him.

[Cephrir]

Cephrir: what do you think of ace?

I'm on page 20 and I'm pretty sure he hasn't posted.

[Cephrir]

I feel like your read on me in every game we've played together has been a mirror of what I'm saying about you.

Granted, that's often happened to be correct.

[Cephrir]

The theme of my reply is probably going to be "wow you are reading so much more into this than I did."

I just liked the nice upbeat tone I think D:

But I'll actually give your post a more thorough read later

[Cephrir]

Thursday tends to be my least busy day at work, so I should get through more than ten pages barring special assignments.

[Cephrir]

Jesus falcon.

Stop.

[Cephrir]

I can't italicize spoiler titles D:<

Spoiler: Cephrir and his mates get stranded with few resources and proceed to act out the plot of Treasure Island

I go to sleep and then 10 more pages...

FT my question becomes how do you distinguish between vezok, Ank, and blonde (who's only post in the game is 424)? Are they all scum? What makes any of them more scummy than any other?

TD's intro is awful. It reads to me as "lets pick the most townread people in the game and stir the pot to see what happens." But the tone is off for that sort of gambit.

Dear lord there is lots to still read.
Do people sleep?

This is kind of what I am feeling right now too.

@vezok: This is possibly the most content I've ever seen on day 1 of a game, why are you actively trying to not analyze any of it?

@Ank: You seem to have switched to being more involved in trying to engage in the last page or two, what changed for you? (Also knowing your own meta makes it worthless 487)

VOTE: vezokpiraka

This post doesn't make sense to me as a coherent unit. It grumbles at FT about distinguishing between several active lurkers as though that is not possible, and then goes on to single out vezok and vote him. I am surprised nobody else is noticing how odd that is.

Tiphaine, that doesn't answer my question. How is the vezok question (and my other questions) "random" and "unconnected"? Have you looked at the context in which the questions were asked? Have you looked at how the questions were answered? Have you looked at what I did in response to those answers?

They aren't, he's throwing shit.

Those of you who are already town reading me could you explain WHY?

Bit is actually better at being scum than town. Do not let the VI routine fool you.

Of the 3 votes on me his seems the scummiest. No reasoning giving just a bald vote after two votes have already been cast. It looks like he is going for low hanging fruit.

VOTE: Bit

What VI routine? I agree about Bitmap in general, as I thought he was so scummy as town in my past game with him that I tunnelled his replacement and his replacement's replacement until I got my prize mislynch. However, I do not think he's been particularly stupid this game, and I do not see any VI routine.

I have no idea why you limited your search for scum to the votes on you.

Those of you who are already town reading me could you explain WHY?

Bit is actually better at being scum than town. Do not let the VI routine fool you.

Of the 3 votes on me his seems the scummiest. No reasoning giving just a bald vote after two votes have already been cast. It looks like he is going for low hanging fruit.
e
VOTE: Bit

I'm leaning town on Bit.

You say this like you expect Rach to immediately back down and defer to you. I kinda want to ask if that's the case, but actually it has very little to do with my read of you or her, so I guess it's neither here nor there... you can still answer if you feel like it though!

But this post to Nacho feels like more along those warning lines and is where I went to start revisiting some of the posts from yesterday. He's basically warning Nacho that if Nacho doesn't agree with him 100% or if he thinks a read of his is weird, that he's prepared to take back his town read of us. Which is way way way more likely to come from Falcon scum. In Serum and Steel, every time our interaction being off and him not seeming town from it, he turned it around on me. It was always my fault for our interaction not being the same. When I tried to make sense of his reads and offer my own, he shut me down and turned it around on me. And then when I finally realized he was, in fact, scum and started pushing him, he omgus'd me harder than fuck and then drowned the game in a huge distraction designed to keep me from figuring out the game and getting an adequate push on him.

This was a giant wall that mostly had the effect of convincing me Tammy is town, but this part of it in comparison to what's happening up on page 5X does not make me feel good. I still lean town on that slot, but this prediction sure did come true.

Those of you who are already town reading me could you explain WHY?

Bit is actually better at being scum than town. Do not let the VI routine fool you.

Of the 3 votes on me his seems the scummiest. No reasoning giving just a bald vote after two votes have already been cast. It looks like he is going for low hanging fruit.

VOTE: Bit

The town read from this hydra is coming from Nacho. I don't know why you're asking for him to explain his town read on you though when he tends to town read you.

What has Bitmap done that makes it seem like we are just dismissing him as being a VI and town reading him for that?

Not all of us are goddesses of radiant town light, it makes sense for most of us to wonder why we're being townread sometimes (especially given Rach had not done much of anything) sooooo ???? And also, isn't she coming off a game wherein she fooled him? If anything that makes me townread Rach a little, because if I had just snowed someone and they gave me a free pass out the gate I'd be scratching my head.

Imp: Why did you not mention this concern of yours sooner?

As for the discussion about xombie, I thought he was a newb to mafia, which was why I felt his reaction was more questionable. Most newbs as far as I have run across are aware of gambits like that.

Doesn't this make the opposite of sense? "You must be scum" is precisely the reaction I expect from a newbie... more experienced players would suspect a reaction test. Why would a newbie be more likely to be aware of gambits? This post makes no sense at all.

I'm going go off and hate this game for a while. You and falcon need to work this out, I guess. If you want me let me know.

I would love it if you would be more of a presence for a variety of reasons.

Posturey is posturing, basically putting on false airs. I thought his response that he wasn't buddying because he had demanded that we town ourselves felt off. It felt like posturing, like no look I'm trying to read them I really really am. The response felt weird because instead of trying to understand where Tiphaine was coming from he immediately shut it down. It's a silly charge, and although I haven't played with Tiphaine, besides Final Fantasy where he was under an alt and playing differently on purpose, but I don't remember him scum hunting the way that he has here. My memory of Tiphaine though is someone who scum hunts in a weird way and tends to get mislynched for it, but in the games we played in before his chaotic style was a style that I could follow and get a read on. His entrance into the game felt more calculated than I've seen him. I've never seen him as scum though and don't know if his game has evolved, so it's something I'll look into.

I (town) was part of a mislynch on him fairly recently. The reasons were not similar.

This needs to be quoted somewhere, maybe hung up on a banner, maybe inscribed on a large stature beside the town hall.

I think TSO is agreeing more with the general message of the thing here, not as it applies to this game. I have no idea why we got sooper serial about this.

I'm very confident that F-16 is town.

Why? I would love an answer that involved meta.

Your question is dumb, and so are you.

(This is in response to FT's vote)

...no. I do not buy this reaction one bit, it looks like an overdone attempt to show townie belligerence and I hate it. You get a vote for this. FT didn't even say anything to accompany his vote, so you can't really think his reasoning is stupid. It's just needless hostility.

vezo hasn't posted much in here. :/

He's trying to stoke discussion in the hood. Thankfully, nobody is biting.

Yeah, if we talked in our neighborhoods, that would be

terrible

!

No charizard, you're being derpish.

Also, due to developments in our neighborhood I will be unvoting now UNVOTE: , I'll have a new plan tomorrow, I don't think what I just saw can have been faked, or would have come from scum, I either have a full town neighborhood or bitmap is scum, but I think I will be hunting outside it for now.

Pedit: Sonic, splain.

I can buy seeing a fight and going, oh hey, these players aren't scum together. However, the assertion that neither can be faking it is pretty tough to get to. Maybe you give players less credit than I do or something, but I don't think it's unreasonable to imagine they could have an actual, emotional fight while not both being town. Also, it doesn't sit well with me that you're backing off of your crazy assertion. No one liked it and so I suspect you may be getting off the train at the first stop because of the pressure. In addition, I see a townie who has the conviction you did, that several very good players are all scum, taking a lot more to drop it or retaining paranoia.

Brants is my neighbor and he looks quite town

I am not playing this game. If I can't see it, it means almost nothing to me, especially if you aren't going to share.

I want to punch beast

For being misleading

Well, I want to punch you for trying to out a mason? Seriously, WTF?

he is mason

1) Good job outing a mason.
2) mason doesn't mean right. The fact he thinks I'm scum is proof of that.

Where's TSO's moonlogic accusations?

He's coasting & posting fluff.

Not liking it. If there's reason that vezok should live, I'm willing to wagon T S O.

What the shit is this sequence of posts. In the first post, you think TSO is a mason, and in the second, you want to vote him....?????????????

Also, I don't care for the "moonlogic" characterization, as it's discrediting (that would be okay if he were a crazy player who actually should be discredited...) but I don't think it describes TSO well at all.

Yeah, this needs to die now. VOTE: MetalSonic

?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!???????additionalexpressionsofconfusion????

I want to punch beast

For being misleading

I never once said I was a Mason with TSO. You jumped to your own conclusions. As of this point I am confident in my TSO town read so I am going to raise hell if someone tries to lynch TSO.

You should know when I get a read on certain people I drive it home to DEATH!

I like this a bit.

Metal Sonic recently ran into a situation where he 'caught' someone and the other mason hard defended him until they outed as masons.

It's not implausible in the slightest and I feels more town than scum to have immediately jumped to that conclusion, even with the posts afterwards.

Okay, but you have no problem with him just stating they're masons?

Especially given he has a neighborhood he could use if he insisted on having diarrhea of the mouth? (Did MS think his neighborhood was town? I don't remember)

VOTE: TiphaineDeath

[Cephrir]

Was there something specific you wanted?

Not really, I just think you'd be easier to deal with at present because you aren't throwing a fit and S&S has taught me not to even try reading F-16.

[Cephrir]

These are both townposting and, surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with them. I'm agreeing with FourTrouble guys, I think we've entered the twilight zone.

Why is agreeing with me surprising?

In both our previous games, I have found your thought processes to be counterintuitive / opposite the way I think as town. I thought you might turn out to be the kind of player I just tend to butt heads with all the time. But maybe I just needed to be town.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir sits on his ass looking at maps in the captain's cabin because not much happened on these pages

I was thinking about this game and thought about the gambit MS played against Xombie. I guess I'm too influenced by the playstyle of UberNinja and drmyshotgun but when you think about it, Xombie didn't have a reaction really which is weird because when I think about it more, I would have screamed and condemned Metal Sonic and created an ultimatum to get him lynched. But Xombie didn't do that. Instead, he was like "uhhh ok" which doesn't strike me as what a town player would usually say in that situation.

Why does Xombie reacting differently than you in that situation mean he is scummy?

Hi. It's not just reacting differently than me. It's just the fact that he supposedly knows he's town and is like "uhh ok" instead of "ur scum" sort of mentality and I would assume a newer player would shift towards "wtf are you doing im town" mentality if that happened to them.

This was my thought process, plus when you look at the wording he believes the claim is fake and then votes.
It's like, oh wait I said that was scummy let me vote.

I read this post. It didn't convince me. Meh.

post 28, FourTrouble"]/confirm

Town.

/confirm

Probscum.[/quote]
I would not have this entry post any other way. By the way I'm in this game because I saw AP/mastin/ffery/Tammycho on the playerlist

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

My read's not changing, but alright, as long as you realize I get MASSIVE "I told you so" rights postgame if I'm right.

Vote: -Blonde-

.

Why are you voting blonde? Please don't do that.

???

Are you expecting AP to post while he's V/LA?

I expect nothing from AP.

What I'd HOPE for from AP would be having a constant stream of readable content where his heart was in the game rather than in whatever place his distracted mind has placed it in (via his V/LA and multi-game priorities) so that one way or another I'd have a read locked down.

I don't.

Is it a null read or leaning scum read then?

Has AP had scum games where he doesn't have this constant stream?

I love this persistence. Reminds me of me when I get a bee in my bonnet!

Hey mastin. Who would you track tonight if you had the chance, and why?

I'm not in any way saying that i'm a tracker, or anything. I'm just trying to spark some interaction.
Mightve looked like I'm a tracker looking for advice or something, in hindsight.
eye

I'm not sure I love the level of self-consciousness here.

Hypocritically, however, I'm going to note this caused me to realize my spoiler titles could be taken as a crumb. They shouldn't be.

Matin why are you voting for someone who has been pretty much a non entity in the game?

Because he's the only scumread I'm comfortable voting. You'd be my vote if not for the Rach defense squad (still calling for bragging rights if you guys are wrong and I was right), and I'm not yet comfortable enough with the idea of AP being scum to vote him. I mean, I

could

vote him, a-la a "Hi, AP" in the same vein my Imperium vote was a "Hi, Nacho" type thing (no, I didn't actually think anything they posted on page one was scummy, it's just that I wanted to vote someone on P1 and they're the people I decided to go along with), but it would be just that, whereas with Blonde, here I'm actually making an accusation, vanity-driven as it may be.

Also, what ffery said; I've commented plenty on people being town.

This coooooould be town mastin.

Mastin
I call conf bias on me. I can't remember offhand a game when you did not think I was scum and every time I turned out to be town, so I would not be pushing on bragging rights just yet.

On the contrary, I have a rather excellent history reading you. You've turned up scum when I've said you would far more often than not, and vice-versa, too. Now, in spite of being a scumhunting god, no, my accuracy is not a perfect 100%. But nor is this confirmation bias. I'm scumreading you because you're posting things which I put a fair amount of confidence behind being scum, albeit not absolute confidence. Thus, why I backed down. You're a scumread, but I'm not going to push you when you're not absolute and you've got a defense squad insisting to the contrary. I'll just gripe about it in the background. A sort of, "I'm willing to admit I could be wrong, thus why she's this high, but if not for the defense she wouldn't be nearly this high; she'd be my vote" type of deal.

I have seen reads on Rach both ways now and I don't have a read at all. Feel free to enlighten me, anyone.

{read list with ZZZX near the top}

Eh?

Yo.

Vote: Imperium

.

Why?

Because screw you all, I am a scumhunting GOD.

I'm almost willing to sheep you based on the one post he's made since yours.

Not because it's a prod dodge, but that it looks like an opportunistic way to active lurk, given the two posts prior to it.

Mastin's vote was a joke.

I'm not sure what you mean by the two posts prior being an opportunistic way to active lurk.

p-dodging right after 2 others do also? Looks pretty opportunistic, to me. Drowning it in a group of post dodges increases town apathy.

Nah mate

[Cephrir]

Yeah, catchup posts are so hard to deal with. Totally similar to completely flipping a shit.

I spoiled them so you don't have to read them if you don't want to.

[Cephrir]

That's fine.

I make them half for my own benefit anyway. Having to put things down on paper helps me think.

Pedit: I don't read timestamps.

[Cephrir]

I don't know, I'm basically not played against ffery scum. I really want to though, I've always wanted to try my hand at catching her.

I can't answer that question without offending you, I'm afraid.

[Cephrir]

I don't think I've ever intentionally stoked an argument in my entire life, mafia or otherwise.

Let's just not discuss this, I don't think it's going to help anything.

[Cephrir]

If you want to scumread me for my reaction fine, but I really don't want that to become the focus of this game.

[Cephrir]

You're really going to make this impossible for me aren't you.

As tempted as I am to make cryptic statements that could help explain my actions and probably lead to you pushing me on it until I say more than I should, I'm going to stonewall the conversation here in the interest of everyone's emotional health.

[Cephrir]

I understand. That's not how I play scum, but I understand why you would think that.

I'm just asking you to drop it.

[Cephrir]

Sorry, you're gonna have to explain because I'm not seeing some revelation here that explains your thoughts. This isn't out-of-game stuff.

Yes it is

[Cephrir]

I'm not talking about this anymore and I don't care if that bothers you.

[Cephrir]

Why? I would love an answer that involved meta.

Answer that involves meta: F-16's emotion and timing.

I'm sure you can guess that I'd like more than this. He was plenty emotional in S&S.

[Cephrir]

You won't take "you don't want me to explain" for an answer?

[Cephrir]

I really don't think this is a good idea :/

[Cephrir]

I wish I had a hydra buddy to consult.

[Cephrir]

Alright, I'm gonna phrase this as nicely as I can.

I like you. I really do. But when it comes to Tammy, based on my observations in games and some discussion thread somewhere, I think you've been a bit of a dick to her. So I interpret the continuing spat as primarily your fault. That's why I told you to stop.

I haven't been talking about it because I didn't want to hurt your feelings, but you're very insistent.

[Cephrir]

You're entitled to your opinion on that subject, but I don't think it's important right now.

[Cephrir]

I wouldn't manipulate a personal argument to my benefit on purpose as scum. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I'm soooo glad I indulged you! Wasn't this a great idea?

[Cephrir]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cephrir]

Well, I did.

[Cephrir]

I can hardly believe you think I'd resort to insulting you to get out of a teensy little comment.

[Cephrir]

Yes, because you couldn't possibly be biased about things you said.

Pedit: I'm really not super interested in doing that.

[Cephrir]

I'm gonna go back to doing my catchup now.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir tries to hold his head up through the battering storm

Oh.. they're inactive. Ok and yeah, this is my second game on this site and you guys seem to all play different from the others I've played with. But I'll change my vote then,

VOTE: Solar Wind

o.o
o.O
O.o
O.O

I dunno. I'd probably want to meta dive for similar events if it had been you or someone else where data might be available. I'm leery of assuming that everyone reacts the same way because it caused two mislynches and a town loss when someone assumed there was one right way to react to being fake guiltied.

But my problem is that Xombie doesn't have any previous games and you're assuming as a result, his reaction was townish.

Townposting.

Vezo how the h e double hockey stick does the fact I pick my fiance's favorite color prove I am town?

I need to see more from Pere before I put him in a pile, I admit I tend to read him as scum and have a bit of confirmation bias with him.

Townposting, finally.

Hi, have some reads.

farside's PV vote is town. I didn't like the PV post right before it either, but that's primarily because I don't like anything he's posted recently. They all feel like he's trying to cherrypick things that look like he's doing something but don't actually do anything.

Not a fan of mastin right now. Something about this post bugs me and I can't put my finger on what exactly.

RachMarie is probably town. She's usually difficult for me to read (I actually don't know if I've ever been able to read her before at least a couple day phases have passed), but I'm feeling town tingles from her engages. Solar Wind feels kinda sorta town for the Rach read too; partially for the read but more because of the way he put it out there. I'm wary about it because of the focus shift to other reads instead of continuing mastin's engage. It could be scum trying to probe at the read and planning to back off immediately, but it's less likely than a town engage due to how vague mastin's response was + mastin already leaning scum.

Bitmap is town.

I'm torn on Imperium. I tend to townread Nacho's posts and scumread Tammy's posts this game. I'm somewhat torn on Nacho further since I believe he's played with me enough to have an idea of what makes me tick (iirc the only completed games we have were him as scum and me as town, and both times he used different strategies against me), and the way he went about interacting with/about me feels town. It's nothing concrete and I have a method of reading him that will eventually give me a stronger read. The main issue is Tammy in that her posts ping scum when they ping anything at all, but I have a feeling in the back of my head that the more emotional type of play (at least compared to Nacho) is ringing a false positive. Can anyone who knows how to read her help me solidify this?

Metal Sonic feels so null it hurts.

iHouse's engage with Metal Sonic gives me light pings. Noting the slot down as a person of interest.

This was also pretty good. You can stop being a scumread.

"So null it hurts" K, ank is scum too.

No u.

Ok i'm here. Finished reading too. Just dumping my thoughts.

First, to xombie's and someone else who i can't remember thing about neighborhoods. Yes plural. This isn't a new mechanic is it? Been done before. Don't think so. Yes they (plural) help me.

MS is pretty much almost obvitown. Idk much about him though.

Bitmap Rach Ihouse imp and solar wind are also fairly strong townreads.

xombie i'm reserving judgement on.

Everyone else is almost as lurky as me. Except in a few cases

Read vezok ISO. Strong townread.

I'll iso the other guys in a moment too

How did you find my ISO so town? What made me a strong townread for you by just reading my ISO?

What a great question!

Liking mastin for scum.

Not providing reasons for the majority of her reads is pinging me pretty hard.

I'd like to introduce you to mastin. As someone who has been down that path (and harped on mastin all game for not giving reasons... guess what my alignment was!), let me tell you that understanding mastin is basically a spiritual experience, not a logical puzzle. I'm guessing you've not played with her.

[Cephrir]

Why? I would love an answer that involved meta.

Answer that involves meta: F-16's emotion and timing.

I'm sure you can guess that I'd like more than this. He was plenty emotional in S&S.

I haven't read that game so my read isn't based on that. When I say emotion, what I mean is, first that F-16 is a very emotional player, and second, because of that F-16 has certain emotional characteristics that I don't think he'd ever replicate as scum without having them pointed out by someone else, because they're so understated and genuine and thus go unnoticed. For example, in Mafia on the air, there was a point where Tammy said F-16 would really hate to mislynch me -- that emotion was 100% genuine town emotion, because it's based on F-16 mislynching me a lot (like almost every game we played for over a year until more recently). That kind of emotion also lines up with F-16's feeling bad about mislynching, which is of course null, but it was more particular in my case, so it needed expression, and that the particukarity of the enotion is what made it so understated yet genuine. There wasn't any manipulation involved, which is typically the case with the expression of scum emotions.

Would he not, theoretically speaking, know that you would expect that? (You don't have to bother answering this question, as I no longer need to get a read on him, and in fact never mind you've pretty much addressed this below)

There are a few similar moments in this game. F-16's first post, saying "holy fuck we drew town" and then asking if I was town is one of them. Of course, any scum can fake that but I know F-16 had just played with me as scum on a different site, and it kinda sucked because we both prefer playing with each other as town, and it sucks having to deceive one another, so that felt like a genuine emotion that needed expression in relation to a recent game we played. His follow up, wanting to immediately start scumhunting before the game has started just adds to that; you could telll F-16 was excited to play this game, and that's not something he'd feel as scum (might express it, to be sure, but his approach felt genuine). Admittedly, much of this is intuition at this point, but I've played a lot of games with F-16 so it's hard to explain.

The other thing here was F-16's response to Tammy's concerns earlier, starting in 532. F-16's town emotion is on full display. I'll explain that later tonight when I get home if you want; at the moment too busy to reread and explain those posts in-depth.

I'm completely fine with this explanation. With context, the statements you're citing move from random garbage anyone could say to actually having a particular reason to be said in this game right now versus any other time.

The stupid little argument we just had had one positive outcome, which is that he's probably town. However, I also like your explanation a good deal (it's really, really obvious you're actually analyzing him), which reinforces my existing townread on you. So basically, I'm not too worried about either of you right now except insofar as he's going to continue harping on the past two pages and I'm going to get increasingly frustrated by it.

Players of SMITE Role Madness, pick the odd one out. I even separated them with spaces.

[a bunch of quote stripes]

Yes, that sure is different from the things other people said?

This just in everyone, all townies react in the same manner to everything all the time always.

@ FT, I really don't care about you explaining to Ceph why I'm town because I am town and you are town. I really want to focus more on Ceph's actual alignment.

I'm a person too. I have questions. You don't run FT.

[Cephrir]

I wouldn't call it a grudge... I said I like you

I just think you handled one situation poorly.

[Cephrir]

I'm getting off work. Will probably only be responding to current things for the rest of the day. I try to save catchups lately so I have something to do at work. But it's possible I'll continue if I'm really feelin' it. Or, more likely, if the people who usually distract me are busy.

[Cephrir]

sorry to hear about your dog eyestott.

Hey so this is ffery.

Ceph, what is your Mastin read?

I'm leaning town right now, but I still have quite a few pages to get through.

Tammy don't leave, most of us love you

[Cephrir]

That game doesn't count.

[Cephrir]

(It's also why I said basically. But it doesn't count)

[Cephrir]

You don't mean Mafia on the Air do you? That's a pretty bad example of what I'm capable of.

I know I'm glossing over things right now, I'll get to em.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir sights land from the crow's nest and cries out to alert his mates to the coming excitement

mastin2 giving reasons for read when town.

mastin2 as scum not giving reasons for reads.

That first link is barely giving reasons. If I wave my hands around and shout "meta" will you pursue something better?

@metal!

MS: what is wrong with voting blond?

blonde is town. voting him is wrong.

Why is he town.

he is town due to interactions in our neighborhood

SHOW ME THE MONEY.

Piping into say I'm fine with everyone posting - nothing pinged my scumdar.

I really think lynching a lurker\low-poster would yield scum D1. Brantz is my pick. And not interested in lynching TD, Vezo or Mask in that list.

I like that.

Vote: Brantz

Who are you? What are you doing here? Where am I?

Why are you lynching lurkers when you are one? Do you have any opinions about anything?

Liking mastin & vezok's reaction to my posts IRT mastin.

Disliking T S O's.

Not interested in a beast lynch, but I could lynch T S O.

VOTE: T S O

-.-

Later.

^this ability is really cool.

Bad scum? Heck no.

...And there's your answer.

I don't like this answer either. I get the feeling mastin's not trying to figure TD's alignment out (i.e. her read is fake).

Meh.

I seriously still want MS dead, maybe bitmap too, that exchange was terrible.

Drugs are bad for you.

Okay. I see what you're saying. His reevaluation has hints of town. I don't see any support for his lynch so I'm willing to wait on this. Who do you want to lynch? One of the inactives?

AngryPidgeon is my biggest scumread at this point. I also dislike quite a few of TSO's posts - not sure if alignment indicative. But Ffery wants to wait to develop a read on AP and he's busy atm so won't be posting. We have a bunch of townreads as well which we'll post in a bit and then probably POE-lynch someone we can agree on if things with AP stay the same.

I feel kinda like I haven't seen enough of the thoughts here.

[Cephrir]

Oh also, I liked the Bitmap/MS exchange if that wasn't apparent.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir moors his ship in an unsuspecting port town central on the spice trade routes...

Farside, why are you voting PV right now? What do you think of Brantz and Solar wind?
eye

Pv has done nothing that comes across as town here or in the pt

I didn't care for brantz at the start because of gut but so far the push on him feels weak.
I find solar very town. I also find myself going back and forth reading imp.

So... the push on him feels weak, even though it is largely your push, and that makes him town? Wouldn't you expect the opposite, if anything, if he was town?

Can't really evaluate with blah reason from ooba.

Nothing in the game apart from a couple of town reads. There's been no post that made me go 'scum'. So I'm concentrating on the lurker\low post list - my choice from it is Brantz.

I just don't feel like my presence is actively needed. Not with the current players talking about the players they're currently talking about, anyway. If anything of interest comes up, I'll engage them a little bit, but otherwise, I'm fairly content where I am right now. I have reads. I have reasons. They're decently good. And for where we are in the game right now, that is good enough for me.

This sums up my view perfectly - I just don't feel the need to post right now.

Yeah ya do. You're rapidly becoming one of my people of interest because I know you can town, and I know *precisely* what one thing has made you look that way to me in the past, or rather what I think your playstyle is based on admittedly one game, and that is not even remotely here right now.

It's hard to put my finger on, but it feels faked. It feels like.... Like scum have daychat and are using it to pretend to do this thing, but actually, there's an easy way to clear this up.

@mod assuming someone would require non-posting for the rest of the day to complete a gambit they had discussed elsewhere or possibly with you, would you consent to not prod that person for the remainder of the day? This is purely a hypothetical game-rules question

Bad scum? Heck no.

...And there's your answer.

I don't like this answer either. I get the feeling mastin's not trying to figure TD's alignment out (i.e. her read is fake).

That's just Mastin though. Remember Tales of you?

Yes, I remember - unfortunately. I'm not sure on her alignment yet; just commenting on things bothering me. The biggest thing is that mastin dropped massive town-tells in Sabotage, so I'm not convinced she's as hard to read as she was back then. Of course, her meta is similar on a superficial level, but this feels different.

A bit, maybe. I think she is still disengaged.

Vezok is town as fuck because because 411, 463, and 472 aren't posts I can see scum making in this situation. They're too easy to jump on.

This is almost exactly how I felt about Vezok so far.

Starting to think Farside might be scum. I don't really see any progression coming from her interactions and some of her posts are just filler comments like asking that Hydras sign.

Me too kinda, but I also think I may need to consider her a player who acts opposite my expectations (what little I've seen of town farside is just not how I think at all).

I don't realllly think thats explicitly scummy of him though? I think its just F16 going overboard with what it is he does, so null. :S. Copout reads ahoy!

noting this for later in this post

What makes you think that scum already know the neighborhoods?

Considering that scum probably do have a fairly good idea of what the neighborhoods are by being in them, this post seems pretty town for not realizing that. Ya ya he could be faking it, but I don't feel like he is here. If this is multiball I'd have to reconsider this.

I can agree with this. Took me a second to arrive at the multiball conclusion, but yeah. This analysis is more than skin deep.

Yeah, AP is scum. The whole manipulate Tammy routine is the exact same shit he pulled in Tales.

Yeah so... what the hell part of 1037 did you get this from? You also accuse him of trying to drive a wedge between you and ffery (I assume pertaining to the thing I noted??) but I don't see how that's happening like at all? What am I missing?

like really can you go cry about the fact I got you lynched before somewhere else, no-one in the thread gives a fuck.

Cry moar. The entire game you've been posting absolute bullshit. My post was completely warranted by your posts in this game alone.

You're clearly determined to hate on TSO and doing it continuously and on purpose. This isn't true.

There's no way AP's last post comes from town. As soon as I convince Ffery that he's scum and vote him, I'll make my case. We're lynching AP today.

It doesn't??????????

Also, everyone notice that AP and Ffery played with each other quite a bit and even hydra with each other. Him not trying to read Ffery and only nitpicking my posts means he believes he needs Ffery on his side and as long as that happens and we're divided, we won't be effective at lynching him.

Still not seeing how he did this, please show me.

[snip]

So I expected this to be a case, and then most of it wasn't even you calling AP scummy, so I am still baffled.

Yeah, AP is scum. The whole manipulate Tammy routine is the exact same shit he pulled in Tales.

AP's posting is not giving me a read. I don't know

why

it isn't. Normally, I can get a read on him, town or scum, right or on the rare occasion wrong, doesn't matter; I can actually get a read on him. I don't know if it's me or him, but for some reason...I can't see it either way right now. His posting's null.

...

That being said

,

were

I to assign an alignment to him FROM THAT POST alone, gun to my head, I'd select town; there MAY be a marker or two that I found vaguely suggesting potential town thought, but nothing that he can't do as scum. So please hold. Trust me, AP will get read. Just give me some time to get it done.

I kinda feel this way too. Aside from the long term confidence in my read obviously. But there's a lot of words in these catchup posts, and there are definitely things that feel like thoughts, a few town twinges here and there for me, but nothing that wouldn't be super easy to fake and nothing scummy either.

I did have ooba and TD as people of interest. I just haven't updated my list since then.

In this at least, we are on the same page.

farside's a strong townread; won't be lynching there.

Help me help you.

I got prodded.

I don't really know waht to do. I feel overwhelmed with all this.

All i can really say now is that i'm adding fourtrouble to my townread list.


And i'm really not a fan of AP right now (sorry friend. i like you)

I think we have enough of that already in this game. In some cases minus the active. :/

It took a lot of will on my end to get myself involved in this game and I've gotten nothing but shotdown since I've been here. People can live without me.

Also tell F16 to shut the fuck up about Tales already. For someone who cares about "the whole picture" he sure can't stop talking about that one game.

Can I reach back into the past and give you a hug here? Hug.

[Cephrir]

While everything is still fresh for me (p. 45):

I currently am townreading: FT, Imperium, Solar <--- I'm not planning on revisiting these for a fairly long time. I fully expect the game to arrange itself so that I never need to. Chances of them and me all not being shot are pretty slim.

Further townreads: Bitmap, Xombie, Metal Sonic, Rach, beastcharizard (don't ask b/c I'm not sure)

Somewhere in the middle (these ones aren't in order) are AP, Mastin, Brantz, Blonde, ZZZX, PV, farside, Mask, Ank, TSO, vezok, Vyse.

Somewhat icky people include House, ooba, ace, TD.

[Cephrir]

Spoiler: Cephrir burns and pillages the village and brings home the plunder

AP/FT/Faraday/Xombie I want mastin opinions, go.

Absolute last person we would want to lynch today.
Scumhunting god and all.
Pretty sure she's town.

Your thoughts?

Can you explain the mastin town read to me? She is very null in my view with everything she has said thus far.

The entrance of mastin alone read town to me. I may have a soft-spot for people who make me lol irl, tho.

Mastin, you're voting someone that Nacho and I are both reading as town. :/

My read's not changing, but alright, as long as you realize I get MASSIVE "I told you so" rights postgame if I'm right.

That was one of the main posts that gave me the townread, aside from her carefree posting and

super secret neighborhood stuff

.

Oh. Ooooooooooh.

The puzzle pieces are fitting together. Townpoints for Mastin, I doubt she's intentionally running this bit solely because it's reminiscent of Inuyasha.

Trying to get yourself out of it vezo?

VOTE: vezokpiraka

You are a strange, silly person. I hope your replacement brings us sense.

Fuck this game. If you need me, I'll be active lurking.

I think we have enough of that already in this game. In some cases minus the active. :/

It took a lot of will on my end to get myself involved in this game and I've gotten nothing but shotdown since I've been here. People can live without me.

Also tell F16 to shut the fuck up about Tales already. For someone who cares about "the whole picture" he sure can't stop talking about that one game.

I threw her a fairly big bone and she is going around ignoring my reads and saying she has nothing on me. As far as I care, she is. Now I'll admit I've done similarly before, but

1) this isn't about mastin specifically
2) She owed me something after previously implying that me being away was scummy

This sequence is incredibly scummy.

I dislike the first post, and the last sentence of the third post. More because they don't strike me as terribly AP-like, than because they are inherently scummy. Second one seems genuine though.

And its town because Im town this game.

It's the little things that make the difference.

This statement means absolutely nothing in regards to AP's alignment.

It does, however, betray his alignment off of tone:























AP is town. Decently certain of it.
(Did I nearly give you a heart attack, AP? )

I reread the quoted sentence more times than I care to admit until I could make myself feel like I saw what you saw.

I don't think the fact I was eventually able to stick myself forcefully into your head should count as much of anything in terms of my actual read, but it was a fun experiment.

VOTE: iHouse

not a naked vote since I typed this.

You're a card! No seriously though this is mildly town (context: beast was recently saying naked votes are scummy)

Vote Tiphaine

I'm gonna give Ceph a chance to catch up, but I'm pretty sure he's scum.

I realize how innately silly it is for me to have a go at this, but she clearly just never even read the game.

I'm very confident that F-16 is town.

Vote Tiphaine

I hate to take pressure off vezok but this needs to happen. Still waiting for a response to my question.

Vote Tiphaine

I'm gonna give Ceph a chance to catch up, but I'm pretty sure he's scum.

This is interesting. 'I know I was voting X - but now I'm going to vote Y - but I haven't forgotten about X'.

Scum have a mental map of their current *reads* as it appears on thread at any time. It feels like you're trying to preempt any 'Why did you forget about mantis\vezo?' statements even before someone asks.

Also, the fact that we're opposed on some critical reads {TD, Brantz, AP} on scum\town ping my scumdar.

Unvote. Vote: FourTrouble

Where is the ooba I saw so long ago?

Sweet. Ceph, if you are town, obvtown up your slot quickly and we'll steamroll the scum.

Cephrir's gonna obvtown his slot up his alignment regardless. It's the "steamroll the scum" bit you have to look out for--because if there's a conflict of interest......

Tee hee.

I swear, someday I'm going to townread you instinctively just for all the ego stroking you give me and be terribly wrong. But I don't think today is that day.

[the post with the spoilers about FT, which I am snipping because you can't put spoilers in spoilers]

That sequence mostly just makes you look scummy to me. I have no idea what you are trying to do here.

FT's not getting lynched because he's town but thanks for attacking him that was incredibly transparently town so now I feel better about the townread on you and can focus on other people (@iHouse).

It was?!?

[Cephrir]

@ Ceph, why exactly do you want to hug AP?

Because angst

[Cephrir]

Restating the Fourtrouble case:
- Both scum and town move votes
- But I've seen scum be in this mindset 'I'm moving my vote from X to Y. Better let people know I haven't forgotten about X'. This protects them from cases later on, when people state 'Oh. You totally wagon hopped and forgot about X'. Call it a pre-emptive defence.

Now that by itself is a weakish-tell, but
- FourTrouble's done that twice. He mentions how he hates taking pressure off vezok to vote TD. He mentions Ceph\mantis again when voting TD for second time.
- His reads\cases seem to attack the townie under suspicion and not mention others. Basically, I think he's pushing those who scum would push.

---

Votecount 13: Anyone? ._.

FourTrouble (2): The Mask, Ooba, iHouse

iHouse (0): beastcharizard

Also, beast and one of {Mask, me, iHouse} have lost our vote.

---

Town

13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt)
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho) - Times where I had my doubts and still do - town for now though.
23. Bitmap

Please put pressure on fourth. Good chance we might have scum there.

19. Ankamius

Townish

1. Angrypidgeon - I hope he's town. Like his tone. Also not sure where he's going with the house push - but not sure if scum would choose to push that avenue right now. High level scum players might - so I'm not sure.
21. House - Not strong but leaning town for claim.
17. RachMarie - Weak town - no particular reason.

Null but some thoughts

2. Metal Sonic - Did not like the entry to the thread. Then the 'let's out all neighbourhoods' was town. The leadership\posting after that was town - his list had too many town reads. [But Solar Wind had a similar list - so idk]. Can't call him town for now.
24. Xombie - I can't really place the current vote on MS. Would scum really do that?

I can't tell what this post is trying to say about Ankamius.

Would like to know if, by omission, this means you have no doubt at all about Solar Wind.

The description re: Metal Sonic sounds like a townread, so it's curious that it isn't one.

I may appreciate something else in this post because reasons, but I will need to check something. Don't expect me to follow up on this and don't ask about it.

- Ankamius is strong town. The line "Please put pressure on fourth. Good chance we might have scum there." was directed towards the top three asking them put pressure on the fourth member in their neighbourhood. I didn't know it was TD then.
- I didn't omit Solar Wind. They're right at top as town
- Still have issues about Metal Sonic. I think his alignment will become obvious as the game goes along.

@iHouse

: I don't think they're distancing.

Okay, this moves us from 0% super-ooba levels up to about 10% super-ooba levels. Even seeing a glimmer of this before I started alluding to it makes me feel a bit better. I almost voted you last post, but am now comfortable letting you slide at least for today. I think more to work with will also help you.

I think FT is town! I am not going to give F-16 an easy read ever again

What is this a reference to? :S I only know of Serum and Steel re F16 scum games.

That's the one. And yet here I am giving them a pass for F-16's posts. But I think the circumstances are extenuating.

WTF. Your strongest read is Bitmap for referencing a song.

Really, Ceph, are you asking about it or telling me what it is? I thought Bitmap just ...looked town early game. He was doing his own thing and his posts read like he didn't give a shit how he came across. I think this should have been obvious to you.

I frequently use periods instead of question marks for some kind of reverse emphasis or something.

It wasn't obvious to me, but that's come across to me in his later posting, so I can accept you seeing it before I did.

The rest of this post hit some town notes.

Oh Ceph - I remember what I was going to respond to. You might not care anymore because I think you have Rach as town now anyway, but the first thing I did when I saw the outcome of the anyone game was to ask Nacho how sure he was of his each town markers. He still feels confident in his town read there and thinks she's more town here than she was there anyway.

That actually does make me feel better.

Caught up, bitches!

[Cephrir]

While everything is still fresh for me (p. 45):

I currently am townreading: FT, Imperium, Solar <--- I'm not planning on revisiting these for a fairly long time. I fully expect the game to arrange itself so that I never need to. Chances of them and me all not being shot are pretty slim.

Further townreads: Bitmap, Xombie, Metal Sonic, Rach, beastcharizard (don't ask b/c I'm not sure)

Somewhere in the middle (these ones aren't in order) are AP, Mastin, Brantz, Blonde, ZZZX, PV, farside, Mask, Ank, TSO, vezok, Vyse.

Somewhat icky people include House, ooba, ace, TD.

Changes:

ooba to null
gap between House and Ace is now larger
AP and Mastin can be in the townread section.
TSO to mild scum for detachment, which slipped my mind at first.
Attempt to order my null section:
vezok>Ank>ZZZX>farside>Vyse>{Brantz Blonde PV}>Mask

I'd vote ace or TD right now. They're both scum.

[Cephrir]

Well fuck, now I'm bored.

[Cephrir]

I don't think your aggravation with him has anything to do with your alignment.

[Cephrir]

Presumably my walls include at least a couple of the instances where something you've said bugged me, though I didn't quote every single post everyone made that pinged me in a direction. However, other townreads of mind disagree, and I'm certainly not interested in pursuing you right now, though I think they've given your claim too much credit. I put rather little stock in things like that.

[Cephrir]

If you really want me to go through and try to pick out every single thing, I guess I can, but I view it as a waste of time right now as playing with people in the moment is reasonably likely to change my reads.

[Cephrir]

A little bit, yeah.

I wouldn't do that to just anyone, though. It's because you're you.

[Cephrir]

<<no comment>>

but noted.

[Cephrir]

Somehow I missed all those skybird posts last page. They are okay. I like 1462.

[Cephrir]

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

What on earth makes that impossible, or even particularly unlikely?

FT, Could you link to this game please?

Yes, I can. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=59051. Also take a look at http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=59052.

You don't mean Mafia on the Air do you? That's a pretty bad example of what I'm capable of.

Yes, that is a pretty bad example of what you're capable of. Tales is a better example; I thought you were town there. But your overall approach -- what I'm calling "calculated manipulation" but really just means you drop lots of fake, understated town-tells, plus a bunch of apparently genuine emotions -- is the same in all the games I've read.

Fair enough.

Yeah, 80% of the time my scum emotions are genuine. I don't find the cog dis particularly difficult.

noting this for later in this post

Where were you going with this?

I thought I alluded to it a few quote stripes later?

He just gave a soft an agreeable answer.

@Solar, well, in the neighborhood, he asks BRantz and my predecessor to claim their roles, and then hardcore avoids claiming his own. When pestered, he says Jack of all Trades, which means he can Roleblock, Protect, and superprotect, whatever that means.

He used his "daycop" to try to incriminate Xombie casually

Why, do you really think he's a daycop?

I got the impression somewhere that you were more experienced than this demonstrates.

I kind of can't believe you thought outing his other claim was a good idea, though I also can't believe he claimed, and given the layout of my role I would not be surprised if he was lying.

So he's obviously lying about at least one of those roles. It's not like he felt safer in the hood, he even said that he thought scum was in it a few times.

I don't see a scenario where he feels the need to fake claim early D1.

Not to mention, he explicitly tries to fake a guilty on Xombie.

Where is the town motivation for that?

everywhere

[Cephrir]

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

Uh...this one? Why did you say this?

oh and it apears i'm the only one who has a strong townread on MS. So i suppose AP isn't the only one.

He was scumhunting, effectively and consistently. He was doing a good job being town.

Idk what else i can say other than he's acting like a townie. I'd rather not give a list of town posts, makes them imitatable. I prefer to point out scummy ones.

I'm not going to unvote AP. Because i don't really have much of a scumread on anyone else.

I"m going to read mastin's iso and anaka's. Cause i remember not liking the insisting "i'm town" posts from mastin, so i'll look at what came after.

You aren't reading my posts then. Good to know.

Don't know why you're getting defensive about the reasons for your reads before anyone even comes at you about it.

[Cephrir]

(Not game related) Ceph nice to meet you and I am sure that you know my fiance NS. I LOVE your avatar that warthog ROCKS ♥


Game related

Ceph goes in my town pile for now. I do want to take a look at some of his other games, but feels pretty towny to me.

Hello! You have actually played with me once before but I wasn't me! I have played with NS a few times.

Guys. I had a dream where this game ended and aceofspades won as scum.

This is clearly a sign he is scum.

Plus Vezok's dream.

My dreams have actually, legitimately, helped me get a read on players.
PV seems to be a popular target of said dreams, for some reason.

Well, God knows there's no *other* way to read PV, so might as well.

ooba, why am I scum, why is Rach scum, and why is ZZZX scum?

[Cephrir]

Also, why are you associative hunting so much (i.e. townreading Mask just for agreeing with you)?

[Cephrir]

Clarification now since Rach will probably ask and I really love revealing this: I am Chandra Nalaar!

[Cephrir]

Personlly I thought that was a pretty obvious typo.

[Cephrir]

Oh.

It's kind of sad that I still haven't stopped doing that. >.<

[Cephrir]

VOTE: ace

that's 8 I think.

[Cephrir]

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

What the fuck?

First of all, you still haven't explained that remark, which even you should be able to see appears pretty baseless. Unless you can supply a reason why you said it, it deserves a derogatory response and will continue to get one for days. Second of all, there is nothing scummy about the fact that I accidentally responded twice. Why are scum more likely to forget that? They're not. I lost track of which page I was on, but it makes total sense to me that I would respond to that twice, because it sticks out so sorely as baseless. Yeah, you're right I want you giving yourself a pass to get shut down. Why would I not want that? Your assertion that I can't be scum with ace is also remarkably simplistic, and I'm just becoming more convinced that the two of you are both scum. Since when has ace been incredibly scummy? Where the hell have you said that before? Get the fuck out with this bullshit. This whole thing is a deflection.

This is scum.

I don't think that's right, but it makes me feel better about house.

I feel worse about solar wind though :/

Are you really not done worrying about them yet?

Because I compliment his votelessness for town's sake by lowering the threshold and putting us back on square one....that seems more tow sided for him than scum losing a vote to null-vote someone.

The only thing keeping me from scumreading beast is his claim, tbh.

The reason I brought it out here instead of leaving it up to him is because I can't figure out whether it's a town-sided or scum-sided role & figured more brains on it might figure it out easier.

If I was town-reading beast, I wouldn't have spilled the beans on his reveal.

This game is role madness and I'm not gonna read into whether abilities look scummy or not. Partly because one of my abilities looks scummy on paper. If he lies, then fine, that's different, but from the sound of it I think that is unlikely.

[Cephrir]

Man, people, and scum especially get in to the most wifomy bullshit on this site and then say that you can't say what's wrong or right because scum could be pulling all sorts of random shit but you know what is almost always true? Occham, Occham is almost always true. If people do things that on a basic level don't make sense from point of view X, they usually don't have point of view X. There are times when that is untrue, but they are few and far between.

So are you going to address anything I just said

Or pretend your points are valid

VOTE: TD

[Cephrir]

Oh great! That can just be the cherry on top of this shitty day.

[Cephrir]

I'm sure someone will call that emotional manipulation though. And this too! Because that is just all I do!

[Cephrir]

...I probably shouldn't post in mafia games when I'm upset about other things, see you tomorrow.

[Cephrir]

I hate fewer things now.

I would simply like to remark that I am surprised no one else has noticed how terrible TD's posts have become. I'm disappointed. I have seen few posts so bad in my mafia career.

I fully expect to be lynched today, since apparently someone is writing a magical novel or something. I'd really have liked more than a couple pages of actually being caught up and playing the game in real time because personally I think all my catchups look the same, but sure. Whatever.

[Cephrir]

Play in real time now?

I dunno if you're my strongest scumread. But, you scare the fuck out of me when your iso feels so laid back.

Laid back? That's a scum tell for me? That would be news to me. If anything I think playing scum against this player list would make me nervous :p because if anyone can catch me it's you and mastin.

[Cephrir]

I'm glad I might not be the top of your list at least. I really am not about that life. I'm getting a bit sick of never being trusted anymore and fighting reads from big players. It sucks the fun out. Even though I recognize it's smart because it's not like I'm an asset to town anyway. That doesn't really change how it affects me.

[Cephrir]

TD, could you at least pretend to respond to me, btw? I know you're scum but if you ignore requests to back up your remarks everyone else will figure it out too. I will start quoting them every time you post if I have to.

[Cephrir]

Vote: mastin2

Your interaction with AP is fake.

I think it's much too early to call this. I don't think I'll want to lynch mastin day 1 ever, because she's so useful to keep around if town.

Cephrir is not scum. He's being pushed by scum as cw to ace.

I told Ffery in our hydra PT that this was exactly what I wanted to do. Except we're town.

Please don't make posts like this. It's not good for me.

You wanted it to come across that way, yeah.

Grump grump grump.

I'm not blind. There are admittedly two things you'd be doing incredibly right if you were scum.

This is a lot of the reason I hate playing with neighborhoods. I want to judge things for myself. I really don't care for the mindset many players have of "I'm not telling anyone about my super secret tells because meta in future games." That's not really playing to your win condition in this game, and it frustrates me.

Cephrir is not scum. He's being pushed by scum as cw to ace.

I agree with this.

I also asked for a case from people.

If need be I will have a case on a few others but so far I feel lazy/tired.

I I am starting to wonder if this might be true, but I only see a couple people pushing me who aren't SW/Imp. Certainly those other people could be scum (one of them is certainly!) I suppose.

[read list]

Why is Ooba town?

Also I think you forgot a couple people (I notice TD is missing and I don't think everyone else adds up to the right number but I didn't really check)

Play in real time now?

I dunno if you're my strongest scumread. But, you scare the fuck out of me when your iso feels so laid back.

Laid back? That's a scum tell for me? That would be news to me. If anything I think playing scum against this player list would make me nervous :p because if anyone can catch me it's you and mastin.

laid back is a thumbnail sketch. When you're scum you look more comfortable and confident. When you're town, IME you are more earnest-looking, or you're apathetic. It's a meshing of both sometimes.

This game, your demeanor and stance feel more like your scum games. I'm still kinda trying to figure out how your play in Serum and Steel compares, and I'm wondering if like in that game, if I'd been reading your early posts without "Cephrir" attached to them, how I"d feel about your contribution.

The sudden deflation and fatalism doesn't feel organic, but maybe because real life.

I can do that I guess. We know how hyper aware I am of the confidence issue though. I could go on about all the psychological little things I think might explain some/all of this, but I don't think anyone is interested and I really don't enjoy babbling about my meta. I'll do it if you really want me to, but you probably don't and it feels narcissistic.

I was having a bit of an angst attack yesterday about several other things at once. I'm better now.

[Cephrir]

I'm not going to be apathetic this game, by the way. It's my only game right now and I like my role.

[Cephrir]

I can do that I guess.

This meant "agree with".

[Cephrir]

What do you think about AP?

I currently have him as barely a townread. I think I'll want to go over him though before too long (perhaps day 2), because I have the utmost respect for his ability to sound really town. I wouldn't mind discussing what to look for with him with someone who feels they're good at it, as I have almost zero experience with town AP.

[Cephrir]

I feel similarly about Mastin, except that I have a little belief in my own ability to read her once she gets more engaged, which I would like to see happening.

[Cephrir]

Right. When I read AP's posts they feel town, but when I try to remember what they said later I tend to draw a blank. That's interesting, though? I would ask Mastin to talk about it, but I imagine she'll say something like, "Bluntly. He's just

town

." which while perhaps accurate, does not really help me

I have played one game with TD. Both town. We mislynched him, but he's way scummier here. That was also the most apathetic town game I've played in recent memory.

[Cephrir]

Does whatever the fuck this is line up with those town games?

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

^I don't even know what to call this

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

^Overstated certainty on a moonlogic case

My points are completely valid cephrir, so ima go with option two.

^Ignoring my rebuttal, not trying to push me in a remotely effective manner

[Cephrir]

words

Oh great. The S&S flashbacks are starting and I haven't even seen the case yet.

Does whatever the fuck this is line up with those town games?

Tell me, cephrir my friend, in what sane universe are me and AOS both possibly scum?

^I don't even know what to call this

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

^Overstated certainty on a moonlogic case

My points are completely valid cephrir, so ima go with option two.

^Ignoring my rebuttal, not trying to push me in a remotely effective manner

It does, p much, though his interactions with players besides you feel a little more like his town game.

Well, that's frustrating. It's like dealing with a deliberately frustrating version of Titus.

@Cephrir:

D1, I usually work with PoV. I spot town reads and I try and sort out who I'd like to lynch from the rest.

I want to remember to compare this.

I like your reaction to the suspicion\people going 'Cephrir's scum' - you move to 'mild town with paranoia' for now.
^Think you're barking up the wrong tree on TD though.

Ffery is doing a pretty solid job of talking me down for now, though I'm not going to quit hounding him.

It's unfortunate, but my main suspect still remains FT. I just don't feel good about that slot. Not a viable counter wagon today though. Also, that *nagging feeling* is telling me that ace would be a town flip.

I kinda have this too, but I literally always have this about the day 1 lynch, so I know better than to care about it.

[Cephrir]

A skim leaves me surprisingly little to say about that post. Maybe I'll try again when I don't feel like I'm about to be waterboarded.

[Cephrir]

* I don't really understand why Xombie's pre-confirmation joke-post should be a big point of discussion. Why would he go out of his way to make it look like he had a read, when he could have just been not posting along with half the playerlist?

This argument could be applied to essentially any post.

[Cephrir]

* I don't really understand why Xombie's pre-confirmation joke-post should be a big point of discussion. Why would he go out of his way to make it look like he had a read, when he could have just been not posting along with half the playerlist?

This argument could be applied to essentially any post.

I mean during Pre-confirmation stage. Nobody was going to call him out for being quiet before the game had started.

I don't think most people calculate that much. If they're reading along, they post. If scum, presumably something they think sounds townie.

[Cephrir]

Ceph, I kinda like the stuff you've said this morning, but I also kinda feel like you're echoing back what I'm saying/telegraphing to some extent, aside from the TD read, where you're taking my word for it that town-TD is no stranger to moon logic etc.. :/

You're ffery. Your meta prowess rises above all other meta. I don't believe you would make up meta even if you were scum, and I don't think you're scum. I'm fine with putting him on the back burner for a little while.

I've tried to do my own meta before. It's interesting, but I've yet to produce any results. The first time I tried it, I couldn't even see differences. The second was in AW, wherein I came out feeling like I had a handle on Lynx but then didn't feel sure matching the present game with either past game.

I am still planning on using some abilities on TD this cycle, though, and I think that will help me.

[Cephrir]

That's not bullshit and you know it

[Cephrir]

Maybe you don't know it, I guess. I believe it though and you can't stop me.

[Cephrir]

:/

[Cephrir]

Right. When I read AP's posts they feel town, but when I try to remember what they said later I tend to draw a blank. That's interesting, though? I would ask Mastin to talk about it, but I imagine she'll say something like, "Bluntly. He's just

town

." which while perhaps accurate, does not really help me

I have played one game with TD. Both town. We mislynched him, but he's way scummier here. That was also the most apathetic town game I've played in recent memory.

I played only once with td. He was town and I was scum. He was mislynched that game. My issue with him is how different he is but its not enough to push it, it is enough not to follow or trust him right now.

We're talking about the same game.

[Cephrir]

I'm gonna start off by saying I don't even do that on purpose when I'm scum and actually respond later.

You shouldn't lynch me today whether you believe I'm town or not, though.

[Cephrir]

I know this is going to sound like I'm ~discrediting you~ but that post makes it very apparent to me that you just don't understand the way I play this game, and we clearly play in such fundamentally different ways that I don't think you should even try in the future. I really thought this was going to be a big demoralizing wall of death, but it's... really not. It reminds me of pie's S&S case (deal with it) actually.

[Cephrir]

Although that one did end up being demoralizing, that was only because everyone bought it. So I guess we'll see about that.

[Cephrir]

Here are the reasons why Cephrir is scum and why we are lynching him today:

Before we begin, I'd like to take a moment to be annoyed by this language. I know you're a power player, but even your friggin' hydra partner doesn't believe we are all going to 100% sheep you. That is all.

1. He eggs on the suspicion of Xombie in Post 1236 by encouraging my and FT's pushes there and way he questioned the Rach and Ooba townreads is geared toward instilling paranoia. He continues in Post 1265 by quoting a random Xombie post with "this post blows" when the post in question wasn't all that bad and actually explained Xombie's entrance into the game.

First of all, I don't know why "egging on suspicion" is supposed to be scummy. It's called agreeing. People do it. I also question townreads when, you know, I don't understand them, and want to have them explained to me so that I can form my own opinion better. You may have noticed I've been asking everyone with a townread on ooba to explain it; it's because I don't fully get that but I want him to be town because I found him enjoyable last time we played together. You can't just say something is "geared toward instilling paranoia" without explaining why. Also, I quote things and say I dislike them pretty routinely. Moreover, this point seems to be taking the view that I am trying to mislynch Xombie to benefit my scum agenda, which does not jive with the fact that I am now townreading him.

2. The agreement with FT in Post 1265 felt odd and as FT pointed out earlier, Ceph and FT had never been town together and the way he did it feels like trying to work himself into a townbloc because FT previously mentioned that he wanted Ceph to be town.

I don't think I was particularly trying to work myself into a townbloc, but let's surmise for a moment that I was. That is something I do regardless of alignment. I always feel left out of townblocs because I am almost never included due to the paranoia I instill in people who have played with me often. AW was pretty much the first time I've really felt like part of a townbloc, and it was wonderful. I'm surprised you haven't noticed my tendency to shamelessly buddy my strongest townreads. I always do that. It feels natural to me. Even though said townreads are frequently weirded out by my trust.

3. The mutual townreads from AP and Ceph based on Ceph commenting on the quality of AP's jokes in Post 1265 and AP calling him town are super weak and the complete lack of paranoia doesn't feel genuine at all. This continues in Post 1469 where he picks out perfectly null things from AP's posts and gives them unsubstantiated compliments ("This analysis is more than skin deep") and defending AP.

Um, my comment on the quality of AP's jokes was not a townread. It was suspicion.

If you want, I can try explaining why I thought things were town. A lot of this analysis seems for some reason predicated on the idea that I am not allowed to read something differently from you. Obviously, I didn't think whatever I commented on was null.

I'm defending AP?

4. His scumread on Ankamius in Post 1265 where he rails on him for not reading the game saying "

If only some brave hero could sweep in and vote this!

" and later comment on FT's Ank vote saying "

My knight in shining armor has arrived!

" all in the same post feels like a massive setup meant to manipulate FT as opposed to a genuine read. His actual read is ridiculously weak: Ank is scum for saying he'll read stuff but not actually reading. Which I think is equally likely to come from lazy town and lazy scum.

Excuse me, I like to be cutesy sometimes. Yes, I wrote the first comment knowing I was going to write the second. And I was only ten or so pages into the game at that point, so all things considered I think that's sufficient basis for a scumread. If I actually said it on page whatever I doubt you'd take so much issue; my approach to catchups is to pretend I'm there in the moment and say whatever I think I would have said, only cutting things out if I run across someone else saying exactly what I was going to. And I suppose I have a higher threshold for what I consider worthy of comment, in the interest of keeping my walls from being completely pointless.

5. Ceph's townread on FT is unnatural to the extent that he goes to great lengths to shout down attacks on FT. Criticizing TiphaineDeath in Post 1267 for "

buzzword scumhunting

" and defending FT doesn't match with Ceph claiming that he and FT see things so differently. If he did, he wouldn't have such a confidence in FT being town that he's willing to defend any and all attacks against FT. His push on Brantz in Post 1345 when Brantz pushed against FT follows a similar vein as does his "

[your questions aren't unconnected], he is throwing shit

" to FT about TD.

Did you even talk to ffery about this post? Shouting down attacks on my townreads is textbook Cephrir. I get level-0 scumreads for it all the time. I was saying that FT and I *usually* tend to see things differently, not that we do here, where I find myself agreeing with most of his reads. Yeah, I think FT's really town. So do you. I can point at a townread this strong I've had in nearly every game I've played recently on site. I'm usually right. I miss getting to say always so thanks a lot Nacho.

6. His comment on Ffery's townread of Rach in Post 1345 ("

You say this like you expect Rach to immediately back down and defer to you

") feels manipulative as hell as he's trying to psychologically goad Rach into disregarding Ffery's read and rebelling and does not at all match up with his evaluation of Ffery's abilties as having meta-prowess rising above all others. His "I

'm a person too. I have questions. You don't run FT

" in Post 1403 to my asking FT about Ceph is in a similar vein of mischaracterizing interactions to divide the town.

That's not what I was trying to do at all. I found ffery's tone a bit imperious and that annoyed me. I get that some players have a lot of pull, but we've all got to think for ourselves as well. Since according to you I'm really manipulative and am calculating my every move, you must therefore think I did this to try to turn Rach against you, which given that I am now actively not trying to lynch you and would fight off any attempt to do so, does not make any sense. If I am coldly pushing agendas on purpose as you insist, I must be really terrible at it since I can't seem to keep straight what they are.

You were not "asking" FT about me in that post, so this is a mischaracterization. Let's take a look, shall we?

@ FT, I really don't care about you explaining to Ceph why I'm town because I am town and you are town. I really want to focus more on Ceph's actual alignment.

That's not a question. It's an attempt to run FT and tell him how he is and is not allowed to interact with me.

7. The TiphaineDeath push overall has a very manipulative edge to it i.e. he wants FT to join him in leading a TD push. Examples include the quote in Post 1345 where he quotes TD calling FT dumb, calls it belligerence, defends FT, and ends the post by voting TD.

No it doesn't. That's not manipulative. Who would be manipulated by that?

But let's suppose I was trying to get FT to vote with me here, just to illustrate how much this point sucks.

It's hard to lynch anyone without encouraging others to join you. This would then essentially be you scumreading me for trying to be a town leader. I guess only the cool kids are allowed to do that.

8. Exaggerated reactions to PeregrineV in Post 1459 ("

Who are you? What are you doing here? Where am I?

") is gimmicky and comical and sets up to potentially mislynch him when Ceph knows that PV lurks out the early days as town.

I'm trying to mislynch PV now? What the fuck? I was commenting on his lack of presence. In my experience PV lurks out all the days as everything, and it annoys me. Yes, it was an exaggerated reaction. I'm trying to have fun and throw a little humor around. I'm pretty sure that's legal in the continental US. (omg I did it again!!!!!!!)

9. The fatalism in Post 1719 feels premature as he hadn't made any effort yet to discuss my scumread on him with me nor had I actually posted a case yet which feels like he's manipulating how people perceive the incoming case. His complete lack of response or disagreement with my list of reads falls under a similar vein where he just discredits the entire wall as "words" even though it contains

absolutely nothing

about my read on him. Calling them "Serum and Steel flashbacks" makes no sense as I was scum there and he is all but certain I'm town here.

A.) I couldn't discuss your scumread on me with you, because there was nothing to respond to yet, and because you're impossible to discuss that kind of thing with anyway.

B.) It does make sense, because you honestly believed I was scum in S&S.

C.) I'll have words about your list of reads. I just haven't gotten around to it yet and nothing jumped out at me as requiring immediate comment. I am at work, you know. I've got a lull right now.

D.) I just typed "words" over your post because I didn't want to quote the whole thing. It does contain something about your read, which was the information that you are going to try to lynch me today. That made me unhappy.

10. Post 1230 - His "this post is too sweet..." feels like blatant sucking up to Nacho. He has before as scum sucked up to players in this way: compare to this post. His Post 1787 falls along the same line and his "

You're ffery. Your meta prowess rises above all other meta

" just feels gross and doesn't at all match up with his past experience playing with Ffery. The "

Ffery is doing a pretty solid job of talking me down for now

" feels more like appealing to Ffery to continue reconsidering her initial scumread on him.

I type what I feel. Deal with it. When I say nice things to people even as scum, it is sincere. I see no issue with using mafia games as a medium to inform people that I like them.

It actually does match up. I'm surprised you haven't figured out I have a high opinion of ffery's play. I've started to sheep her before, and I don't usually sheep even momentarily. I think every time I've ever blatantly sheeped and not backed off it shortly thereafter, literally ever, I've been scum.

11. Ceph's interaction with me also feels like mega-buddying at first when I said I wanted him to be town (his Post 1230) but later on switches to discrediting my read after I've called him scum (giving AP a hug in Post 1469 after AP tells me to shut up about Tales).

I buddy my townreads.

I discredit people whose reads on me are bad.

Wanting to give someone a hug is not a discredit of someone else. I'm sorry that you are apparently a robot.

Literally everything that Ceph has done this game has been trying to twist the gamestate in his favor, appealing to town players he thinks he can manipulate, and there is nothing about his reads that feel as though it genuinely came from town. I expect votes to follow or reasons why not.

These are all bold, broad, sweeping statements that you have not supplied evidence for.

[Cephrir]

For reference, the sympathy stuff he pulls shouldn't be a reason for a townread. People who haven't played with scum-Ceph tend to find these things town or go the "would scum actually do this?" route but that's not barely helpful.

Bringing up foxhound would make sense if I was actually AtEing, but I am not.

[Cephrir]

It's not a custody battle. I can defend myself. :/

[Cephrir]

I'll be back with real responses to things tomorrow, but I wouldn't mind lynching Vyse, only it's mostly for selfish reasons.

[Cephrir]

^townposting.

[Cephrir]

:/

[Cephrir]

:/

[Cephrir]

Also ceph - you were referring to nacho fooling you in that catchup wall and not being able to trust your read on him? I meant to ask about that earlier and forgot, but I thought you were responding to me when you said that and I was confused.

169. I tried to get myself lynched over Nacho, he was scum. On the plus side, it taught me never to do that.

I'm going to

UNVOTE:

for a bit as Ffery thought that his soft-claim could be indicative of town. I noticed it as well when he was responding although not wholly convinced that it is definitely coming from town. Would still like people to explain their townreads on Cephrir beyond a surface level.

Also have a feeling that since it is role madness, scum would almost certainly be fake-claiming some role as opposed to VT. As town, it is fairly meaningless. We all have roles.

My role is strong and provable.

Ordinarily I don't go in for setup spec, but this is the one ability I do engage in spec on, because scum should pretty much never have it unless it's gated more heavily than I am.

I'm still weary of cephrir but I liked his response to the case. Way lot less manipulative than I associate with scum!cephrir. Talked to nacho for a bit about cephrir, and while he's admitted he's not great at readin cephrir (we both have a tendency to town-read him/be manipulated by him) and he's not interested in lynching cephrir today.

I disagree. His response actually spent quite a bit of time discrediting than addressing suspicion normally and his response

was

manipulative.

He responded to your case on him. He discredited you a bit in pieces along the way, but not in a way that was out of the range of "cephrir-town addressing a push from someone he thinks is town" on him.

It was manipulative if he was scum. It wasn't out of range for town behaviors.

First off, he didn't discredit in NY169 or Serum and Steel. If you compare his response in Serum and Steel, it was pretty much to-the-point with no discrediting elements. There is an INSANELY sharp contrast to this post. I'll quote it here:

Spoiler: Town Ceph's response to suspicion

Well, this is annoying. I thought we were done focusing on me for a while.

I'm massively shocked and surprised that Cephrir hasn't already been lynched. He's playing exactly how he would play as scum. He's staying on top of the game, asking questions, "scumhunting," and putting on a show of being an upstanding townie. His play has several similarities to Tales of You where he was scum and is incredibly different from NY169 where he was town. Cephrir prefers playing scum to town and loves the aspect of manipulating people whereas when he is town, he struggles to keep himself motivated.

Usually, but not always. It amuses me that at least thus far, your case amounts to "Chandra is scum because she doesn't look like scum". It just so happens that I'm capable of getting into a good groove as town; it simply doesn't always happen. I was determined not to make a reference to the different account again, but I have to note that trying to maintain a slightly different persona actually is really helping me maintain my interest in this game. It gives me something to do and actually, on some level, I enjoy it for some of the same reasons I enjoy being scum.

To give an idea of the type of manipulation Cephrir is good at, it basically involves making arguments that will resonate with the most influential players in a game. In this game it is clearly xMuffiman, Trustworthy, and to some extent Pixel assuming none of them are scum with him. Now look at the way Cephrir postures around the various arguments early on in the game.

I won't argue with the basic premise here, but you know what kind of argument resonates with influential players? A good argument. Though you'll definitely see me deviating into bad arguments as scum (Xenosaga, Day 2, I knew the case on Kagami was pretty bad and helped push it through anyway).

Notice how Cephrir takes on the argument between Titus and Tammy in Post 98 by interjecting himself saying "that didn't happen" when Titus accused Tammy of rolefishing in Post 95. But if you actually look at Tammy's Post 91, she does suggest the possibility of having those who have the synth claim so we could analyze that information and Titus can be forgiven for considering it a rolefish. However, Cephrir interjects himself in there before Tammy can respond to quickly defend against the accusation which also subtly makes Titus look bad even though her concerns were reasonable.

This isn't actually an example of the point you were just making, but it doesn't count as a rolefish anyway when she was hating on her own idea.

Cephrir as scum is also fantastic at doing what the people expect of him. For instance, everyone knows zMuffin is a good scum player and inspires paranoia so the moment Ffery townreads him, he jumps in pointing out that this was "muffin we are talking about" in Post 106. This is probably not conclusive because I do think Ffery's townread was a bit hasty but this is one of the patterns I see from Cephrir about doing what is expected of him which fits with his scumplay.

If you wanted to argue this as not being a reason for townreading me, I'd be on board with this. What behavior, though, by this logic, could I possibly elicit in order to get a townread form you, other than sitting around being a completely useless townie like I sometimes do? And what's to stop me from trying to imitate /that/?

Cephrir's Post 132 feels off. He questions Antihero on his Pixel vote at a time when Antihero had telegraphed his vote quite clearly and it seems more like a move to buddy Pixel as well as instigate conflict. Post 154 is pretty damn useless as far as scumhunting goes but could possibly work as a manipulation device. His posts to Trustworthy amount to "<3" and "aww man", his posts are SKOT are more pushing, (I feel like Cephrir is picking up on an easy target), and his posts to Antihero are more defense of Pixel.

I don't even remember these posts especially and I'm not about to go back and look at them, but congratulations, you've done it, you've actually managed to attribute more intricate planning to me than I actually have even when I *am* scum! Not sure why it's so outlandish that I might have actually had a scumread on SKOT, different players are different and don't have to agree. You'll notice if you go further though that I've backed off and now consider him only a mild scumread.

It is really obvious Cephrir is scum here

Not only is this not true, it's also literally never been true.

I think you're wrong F16 and you give far too much credit to ceph about him abilities.

And I think you just can't let me have even one thing without belittling my accomplishments~

Can you explain your read there in more depth?

That is how I responded to one thing one time. If you look at my response to the case from pie, I think you will probably find me getting snippy and discrediting. Though I also see a lot more similarities here than you apparently do.

ffery here.

I'm kinda at a loss. I'm not scumreading Ceph nearly to the extent that f-16 is, and I am seeing a lot of stuff that I feel could come from Ceph as either alignment, and the overall sense I get from his reaction to our push is a slight town sense. I don't how to weigh up my low-confidence read against f-16's high confidence read.

However, I feel like the TAOS lynch if it goes through will be a mislynch, but this isn't a townread for the ages.

I'd still like to look elsewhere.

I'd love to talk about alternatives.

The only reason I kinda want to lynch Vyse is because I think my neighborhood could potentially be something I would actually want to use if he wasn't in it. That aside he's the nullest null that ever nulled a null.

I don't want to get into a back and forth wall war with a scumread but I'll address a few key points from Ceph's response in Post 1811:

5. The "

Did you even talk to Ffery about this

comment implies that Ffery is better at reading him than I am which again feels like appealing to Ffery second guessing her read. Obviously we talk about reads. We're a hydra. We don't run specific points by each other. He is presenting Ffery up as an authority in reading him so he can leverage her uncertainty. Also doesn't match up with Mafia On the Air where he suggested that I be nightkilled immediately as well as Tales where I spent the better part of late-game trying to get scum-Ceph lynched.

You are confbiasing hard on this point. I'm saying ffery knows that is part of my meta, and could easily have told you that. It's not discrediting you. Actually, you should know this too, I'm pretty sure I yelled at anyone attacking mastin in S&S pretty consistently.

6. My argument here was that the comment about Rach/Ffery was meant to inspire long-term paranoia and break up the townbloc. Ceph townreading Rach has nothing to do with that. It tries to present someone unfavorably to cause rifts among the town. Same with me/FT.

I don't know how to convince you that I am simply not doing this thing.

9. The Serum and Steel flashback doesn't make sense as I was townreading him later on in the game. I was also much less sure than I claimed to be.

It makes complete sense, because it feels the same right now as it did in that moment. I am talking about a literal flashback, not a "this game is precisely the same in every way." I don't care what happened after.

There's other little stuff littered around like complaining about the language of the post and saying that I'm making broad, generalizations without evidence when I supplied a wall full of them.

Your evidence consists largely of assertions.

Ace (My vote stays HERE)
Everyone is lurking except for a few cases. Umm what? Seriously whining about lurking but not pushing activity gets you mucho scum points dude. Not to mention the lack of logic and IIoA in that statement. Plus I hate everyone and I do not do meta or any other things that help with scum hunting just does not help. It is DAY ONE dude there is not a heck of a lot to go on or analyze unless you look at meta, how much experience players have etc. ESPECIALLY when so many are lurking.

Pretty sure that those who are out of the game, one is scum and the other is town. Though there is the possibility they are working together and came up with a scheme to prevent them from getting lynched.

Sorry for the wall but there ya go my reads meh as they are.

yes except in a few cases. That's what an exception is. And as you're quoted saying seconds later "so many lurking" so it's not like you even disagree with the assesment. I never said i hate everyone, idk what that's even refering to. So "lack of logic" indeed.

And i don't use meta. it doesn't help me. I'm sorry if you disagree. But i don't use it. That's not a scumtell. It's a fact. I don't use meta. no matter who i am.

"there's not a heck of a lot to go on (on day one)"
then practice what you preach and read my fucking meta. And you'll see that i DON'T USE IT!!! I honestly don't even understand what your case is anymore. And i wrote something very rude after this. But i think i'm being stupid and getting angry. So i'm done for now.

This does feel a bit like a mislynch. I don't know where else to go, though.

So, you will only lynch Ceph if you see him as "super-scum?")

You're not reading this post right.


Mastin, please get in here. I do not want to be forced to vote for you for self preservation today.

[Cephrir]

1. 1265, specifically Ceph's surprise at agreeing with me, is fake. Ceph's only substantive experience with me was in Mafia on the Air. I was town; Ceph was scum. I spent the vast majority of D1 (I died N1) pushing a lynch on Ceph. If you're scum, and X scumreads you, you can't disagree with X; X is right and part of what makes you scum is the fact that you know X is right. So Ceph's "surprise" can't come from Mafia on the Air. The only other game I played with Ceph was Tales, and in that game, I didn't post enough for Ceph to disagree with me. So Ceph's "surprise" also can't come from Tales.

I have observed you playing town in Mafia on the Air. This has nothing to do with what you were doing, so much as how you were doing it. I observed that your style is completely counter to mine. I thought I could mislynch you because your town play looked unlike my picture of how a townie plays. Therefore, I am surprised when I agree with you.

2. 1350 is also fake and manipulative:

I thought you might turn out to be the kind of player I just tend to butt heads with all the time. But maybe I just needed to be town.

Note that Ceph has never had any reason to think we'd butt heads if we were both town. Ceph's only experience with me has been as scum. Also note the understated manipulation: "But maybe I just needed to be town."

See above.

3. Ceph's townread on me doesn't square with Ceph's "surprise." If Ceph's "surprise" were real, then he'd suspect me for not playing the way he's seen me play in the past. Deviations from the norm are scummy, not towny; that's the entire basis of any meta analysis. But instead of scumreading me, Ceph townreads me, not despite his "surprise," but precisely because of his "surprise."

I am townreading you because your thoughts throughout the game have frequently resembled my own. I am town, so when someone else takes the words out of my mouth before I say them, I can surmise they are coming from a similar place.

As I've already detailed, I am not a particularly meta-based player. When I've played with someone many times, I start to have meta-based opinions about them, but other than that it's only a mild informant of my play.

This suggests (a) Ceph's "surprise" is fake, and therefore (b) Ceph's townread was tactical rather than genuine. There's another point here, too: in Mafia on the Air, I quickly caught Ceph, and Ceph spent the majority of D1 there trying to push my lynch. So going forward, scum Ceph is preinclined to get me on his good side lest I push him again; that explains why he's buddying me so hard. Finally, note that his play here is a response to the failure of a former strategy: in Mafia on the Air, Ceph tried to push my lynch and failed. He'd doing the exact opposite here (buddying me hardcore) and based on his fake "surpise," it's much more likely to be a scum adaptation (something Ceph is known for) than Ceph's town play.

These points look great on paper, and all I can tell you is they just aren't right.

@ FT, are you arguing that TD and Ceph are partnered together?

Yes, it makes the most sense. TD's bizarre attack on AP/Mantis, his vote for Ace, his weak push on Ceph over a stupid nitpikcy point, then the moment Ceph gets real pressure, switches his vote to you? Not to mention the other issues I have with TD. I'm very confident in both these reads.

I think you should reread the interactions I have with him because what. Oh, and this reminds me, I need to start quoting myself at him.

[Cephrir]

@TD: I want a response to this, not a "lol my points are still valid fuck you."

Above all else, I want you to explain your comment that you cannot be scum with ace and I was silly for thinking so, because I see no basis for that at all.

1579+1580=cephrir scum. He responds to my same post in two different, both derogatory ways. He planned and wanted to respond and make sure I got shut down and lumped in as scum with ace, he also forgot he had already done so, not town play. See, ace has been incredibly scummy, but he can't be scum as long is cephrir is unless we are in multiball, so cephrir is the lynch.

What the fuck?

First of all, you still haven't explained that remark, which even you should be able to see appears pretty baseless. Unless you can supply a reason why you said it, it deserves a derogatory response and will continue to get one for days. Second of all, there is nothing scummy about the fact that I accidentally responded twice. Why are scum more likely to forget that? They're not. I lost track of which page I was on, but it makes total sense to me that I would respond to that twice, because it sticks out so sorely as baseless. Yeah, you're right I want you giving yourself a pass to get shut down. Why would I not want that? Your assertion that I can't be scum with ace is also remarkably simplistic, and I'm just becoming more convinced that the two of you are both scum. Since when has ace been incredibly scummy? Where the hell have you said that before? Get the fuck out with this bullshit. This whole thing is a deflection.

This is scum.

[Cephrir]

I'm staring at this player list trying to figure out where the scum are hiding. Looking at Falcon's big ole wall o reads, on which I think my only major points of contention are maybe AP/Mastin but I'm not going to argue they're town when I'm barely sure of my reads myself and clearly need to reread both of them.

I did find one player I think might be scum in my staring. Rereading him now.

[Cephrir]

Well that was pretty fruitless.

[Cephrir]

I can't even pressure it right now. That's annoying.

[Cephrir]

I'm gonna figure out how I feel about everyone again in brief.

[Cephrir]

1. Angrypidgeon: doing this later, too much effort for what I'm doing right now

2. Metal Sonic

3. Mastin2 Dcane: doing this later, too much effort for what I'm doing right now
4. Skybird BRantz: Skybird has felt reasonably town since replace in, but lacks critical thought. This was a solid townread until I isoed it just now. I'm not so sure anymore.
5. Theaceofspade: Well, it's flailing a bit now, but I've never been good at cutting through that. Lacks critical thought. Ace, why are you voting for AP?
6. Beastcharizard: I am not really townreading this. The one reason I slightly want to is pretty perverse and I think I should disregard it.
7. Aeronaut -Blonde-: The only thing that reads town to me here is the jump on Metal Sonic. I don't think Blonde looked particularly anything at all.
8. TiphaineDeath: I'm going to worry about this later.
9. Ooba: I don't want to lynch ooba today. He's showing some glimmers of what I want now and he'll be a valuable asset if that comes out more.
10. ZZZX: If we're lynching a lurker, I'm not going to pick this one on account of reasons.
11. PeregrineV: I have a PeregrineV read on PeregrineV.
12. Farside22: very likely town, I like her scumread on rach for agreeing with her- I think she's wrong but it looks town as shit
13. Solar Wind (F-16_Fighting_Falcon and fferyllt): very likely town
14. FourTrouble: very likely town
15. Cephrir Mantisdreamz, Flames682: the best
16. Imperium (Tammy and Nacho): very likely town
17. RachMarie: a lot of transparency here and looks town motivated to me
18. The Mask: There are some okay notes here, but it's odd to me that there's a post restriction in this game. I wouldn't object to lynching this (and I wish I could pressure it)
19. Ankamius: I reread this because Falcon apparently finds it town town town town. I did not see that. Certainly exists.
20. T S O: Has felt town in a couple places. Really want to see more of you.
21. iHouse (House and Eyestott)House: I am liking House's recent posts more. Is it because he's supporting me a bit? Yeah maybe. Especially since I suspected him earlier, and I like the way he's been doing it. Not lynching here today.
22. vezokpiraka: has felt like town vezok here, I think maybe I'm getting the hang of this

23. Bitmap

24. Xombie: I am ultimately townreading the reactions here.
25. VysePresident: this slot essentially hasn't posted to me.

People left: AP Mastin Skybird Ace Beast Mask Ank Vyse

[Cephrir]

Aero is also left, lost him in the shuffle

[Cephrir]

That's not an answer.

What actions. Why not.

[Cephrir]

5) Ankamius - While I hate his entrance and lazy posts of nothing, the way he dropped the Nacho-tell in Post 480 after his initial scumread on Imperium felt incredibly understated and genuine and I loved the follow-up in Post 486.

I don't see what you are seeing here. The initial scumread on Imperium came without reading most of their posts, which doesn't seem town motivated to me. Dropping it because "wrong head" doesn't do all that much for me.

His list of reads in Post 847 feel pretty damn town and his reads on us, Imperium, Rach, and Mastin show a lot of scumhunting depth and I absolutely loved the effort he put into refining his reads in Post 1542 by ISOing his unsorted list and I think it way less likely for scum to be as pro-active since he wasn't under any pressure to do it at all.

You call that depth? It looks pretty fakeable to me.

And the Mastin read is one sentence.

Also, I don't mind the idea of someone putting effort in by ISOing, but it seems to me you are running on the assumption that Ankamius is the type of player to sit back and do nothing as scum rather than trying to look town. I have no reason to think that is the case.

6) Skybird - Although I disliked Brantz's Post 153 as most of his reads are incredibly wishy-washy, I could chalk it down to it being early game and his "My brain wants to scum read everyone who said they aren't going to read any of the discussion from the confirmation stage, but there are a lot of them so I don't think its actually a tell. resonated as it matched my thoughts exactly.

I actually don't mind his wishy washy reads. I tend to not mind that though because it reminds me of me. There were only, like, 5 people tops who said they weren't reading things... I don't see why that precludes it from being analyzed.

his vote on Vezok in Post 500 makes sense given his previous stances.

Consistency isn't hard, is it? I still feel like you're assuming these players are bad.

The rest of his posts up until his replace out felt like he was genuinely trying to keep up and follow leads and actually replacing out shows that it wasn't scum lurking it out.

Yeah maybe.

Skybird's entrance was tonally aggressive and felt town and the way she's looking at interactions between Metal Sonic, Beast, and TheAceOfSpades and her probing them further felt genuine. Overall, fairly certain this slot is town.

I don't find it tonally aggressive? The message is aggressive (MS is scum, I want to vote for him) but is not said in a terribly aggressive way ("that strikes me as X", "his post progression reads more scummy" -- that's passive voice if anything)

Skybird feels new enough that I'm willing to give her a few points for being consistent, but I would like to see her being more proactive.

More coming later. Between a more focused iso and some of your points I don't think I want to lynch Skybird today. I feel nullish on the slot now and I can do better than that.

[Cephrir]

21. iHouse (House and Eyestott)House: I am liking House's recent posts more. Is it because he's supporting me a bit? Yeah maybe. Especially since I suspected him earlier, and I like the way he's been doing it. Not lynching here today.

How am I supporting you, and why do you read that as town instead of appeasement?

I'm not saying you supporting me somewhat is a necessarily town thing, only that it is a thing (and I think that I am subconsciously affected by that). That said, I generally expect people I correctly scumread to behave more at odds with me and see me as an adversary.

I'm actually quite vulnerable to being appeased and buddied and I know this intellectually but it gives me good feels anyway and I'm not great at weeding that out of how I feel about people. And really it doesn't steer me wrong all that often, scum tend to see me as a mislynch target when I'm town more often than they try to get on my good side-- it's not worth it to get on my good side, because except when I'm really on a roll I tend not to be an influential player.

[Cephrir]

I'm not backing up your statements for you. That is not my job.

[Cephrir]

That's nice.

Don't make me use force.

I don't think I'll want to lynch mastin day 1 ever, because she's so useful to keep around if town.

Eh, I wouldn't say always, but more often than not.

I'll be staying around for quite some time this game, though.

'Cause I lied/omitted in my scumhunting god claim before, I actually auto-commute yet can still use actions during the night meaning that anyone targeting me is gonna fail including scum trying to nightkill me. It has an expiration date, though, so after that scum can kill me. So don't you dare think of lynching me before then.

Why do I feel like you're just making stuff up to draw night actions?

Shhhhhh.

[Cephrir]

TD, I need you to do me one favor. I need you to make a post that says, word for word, the following, and nothing else:

My win condition in this game is "You win when all threats have left the game, or nothing can prevent the same."

[Cephrir]

shhhhhhh

[Cephrir]

Could you explain WHY you think I am scum?

Nope, not really. It's a vanity read. I have it, but I'm not going to push it. Wouldn't call it just gut, but since I can't point to anything tangible, gut's the only word I have.

What do you think of the wagon on Ace?

Looks towndriven for the most part and I've thought Ace looks mildly (albeit not severely) scummy.

What other scum reads do you have at this point?

Well, you. And Aeronaught/Blonde. That's about all off the top of my head.

What is your logical analysis of the froo froos?

My analysis of the what what?

I'm thinking pretty hard about the conversation that Penguin and I had regarding your reads when town vs your reads when scum right now.

I would love love love to have been a fly on the wall in this conversation.

[Cephrir]

I would love love love to have been a fly on the wall in this conversation.

You can be.

It starts here: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5862832

Imma read this later. Thanks.

Mastin, please get in here. I do not want to be forced to vote for you for self preservation today.

You'd get lynched over me if I claimed and explained my actions. I'll say that much.

So, votes go elsewhere.

Like I said.
I can tell you who is town to some extent.
I have the vaguest of vague scumreads.

Don't really have much other than that.
Like as an example, I can see the Skybird read, but something else made me ambivalent when I saw an equal and opposite reason for Skybird to maybe be scum.

I really don't have much to contribute right now.

Like even you, mainly because I frankly haven't been bothering to read your posts, I don't have a read one way or the other; I've simply not put in any effort to sort you. Given your claim, probably more likely town than not, and REGARDLESS, even without any claim from you you're not someone I'd want to lynch without a scumread on you (one I most certainly haven't had even the slightest niggle of since you came in, even though it's taken you softclaiming to get even the slightest niggle of a townread), meaning definitely not a D1 lynch.

But there's not much else to say.

Read my posts

@everyone:

This --

I have observed you playing town in Mafia on the Air. This has nothing to do with what you were doing, so much as how you were doing it. I observed that your style is completely counter to mine. I thought I could mislynch you because your town play looked unlike my picture of how a townie plays. Therefore, I am surprised when I agree with you.

-- is scum. In Mafia on the Air, Ceph didn't push my lynch because I thought differently. If anything, it was the exact opposite: I repeated something in the game that had been said by Ceph's hydra partner in a neighborhood PM, and then Ceph proceeded to push my lynch under the theory that I was stealing their thoughts and analysis. The truth is that I hadn't looked at the neighborhood PM so I had no idea what was said there. But Ceph saying my thinking was counterintuitive and that that's why he pushed my lynch is pure bullshit.

Oh yeah, that too. I totally forgot about that.

[Cephrir]

Imperium, it was actually Ceph who first brought it up in the game -- Mara was just more vocal in general but that was the basis of both their pushes.

Mara was much more fixated on this way more than I was. I'm not sure whether I pushed it myself very much or not, but I think it's a stretch to call it the basis of my push.

To be fair, I am not looking at it right now.

I am reasonably certain that will get me modkilled cephrir, direct quotation and all that :/.

Everyone, please look at this and consider what it is a response to.

TD, if you are somehow town, why don't you ask the mod. By your logic, I should have been modkilled for asking the question.

[Cephrir]

Actually, I will spell it out for you.

TD, I need you to do me one favor. I need you to make a post that says, word for word, the following, and nothing else:

My win condition in this game is "You win when all threats have left the game, or nothing can prevent the same."

I am reasonably certain that will get me modkilled cephrir, direct quotation and all that :/.

[Cephrir]

I would ask that everyone refrains from speculating about my crumbs until TD posts more

[Cephrir]

Adding onto that, I'd like to note that I don't care how many town-tells Ceph drops in the game because he's quite good and can fake town-tells and they don't mean he's town. The specific point I brought up in my case isn't something town would ever do (i.e. fake an emotion, lie about their experience in a previous game to justify that emotion, and develop a townread that's at odds with that emotion, which further shows that the emotion was fake and the townread is tactical). That alone is enough to lynch Ceph, regardless how many town-tells he drops.

The only way I buy someone townreading Ceph is if they think he's telling the truth about his experience in Mafia on the Air. And yes, it's "possible" that Ceph's telling the truth. But it's so unlikely when you take into account the circumstances in that game.

I am surprised you think I'm lying about my experiences.

That's not something it would even occur to me to do. If we disagree on what I was thinking then we disagree. If we disagree about objective facts about that game, I'll chalk it up to my shitty memory. I don't really know what else to say about this.

[Cephrir]

I'm not really a lie detector. Sorry for getting your hopes up :p

[Cephrir]

I really didn't expect that to get anything at all. What it did get was certainly interesting if not conclusive.

[Cephrir]

I think what I really got out of this was a townread on TSO and a firming up of my townread on vezok.

I should do this more often. B)

[Cephrir]

Yeah I'm probably gonna have to do this from home today q.q

[Cephrir]

Are they

handwritten

notes?

[Cephrir]

Who the hell writes notes and then replaces out without ever posting them?

Scum, that's who.

Yeah, this.

It looks to me like Mastin is crumbing (rather blantantly) that she has a powerful ability

Everyone has a damn powerful ability. Also, you know part of my ability and you are like: "Lynch that guy whom I know part of his power. Who gives a shit if he is town." Like for real? Also, I can't do jack shit about it because my vote is fucking 0. I can't pressure you or anything. I am in the WORST Position game wise out of anyone in this thread because my vote is 0 and nothing that I know of can change that today.

I am not the lynch today.

VOTE: Skybird

In case this is a bastard game that is so bastard we don't know it is a bastard game and my vote on a person really does give them no vote.

You have one vote on you and you get this upset? I've had you in my scum pile since I replaced in. This post doesn't do anything to persuade me differently.

Oh, *that's* why he voted you. That sucks.

I'm probably going to table mastin and AP until tomorrow and focus on the other people on my shortlist. If I don't come away with a good scumread on any of them I will either stay on TD if he is viable or vote Vyse.

[Cephrir]

14) Aeronaut

- Blonde's posting leaves a lot to be desired but didn't feel scum motivated overall. His "

Oh and if it becomes necessary, I can prove I'm town

in Post 766 is an assertion overwhelmingly more likely to come from town. His convoluted method for suspecting Mastin and soft claiming felt very genuine in light of this. Not a fan of Aeronaut's entrance and his insisting that Metal Sonic was lying scum which felt over-the-top but subsequent explanations feel like he actually believes it.

While I agree with your assessment of the softclaim, I didn't like this in that post:

I assume that he voted for me because I haven't been involved with the discussion and he probably wanted to put pressure on me. So, if he really thought that I was top of his list at that point (Because he'd vote for the top of his list) then I'd say his voting in the game is more suspicious than mine.

In addition to a bit of cognitive disconnect between the two sentences ("I assume...So if he really thought the opposite of that") it also features a classic, "look at this guy, he's scummier than me." But the persecuted-PR vibe in the rest of the post is pretty decent.

Her changing her vote when asked to (768) read weirdly to me at first and still does... the fact she voted Solar Wind makes me think the post should have a joking air but it doesn't have that.

781 also makes me scratch my head a bit. I don't generally expect newbies to not divulge all their thoughts in thread. I would be interested in learning whether she discussed what she was supposedly doing here in her neighborhood. 783 feels a bit like a backtrack.

Funny how I cam in thinking it was odd how little you acknowledged Aero here but actually he is the less important player in this slot. Aero has just got FT stuck in his craw for some reason and it's strange to me that someone who's been semi-active since 2013 has apparently never seen a gambit before. But there's no scum motivation there except trying to have an easy scum read and, as they say...elsewhere, "dumbtell" (which I don't believe is a real thing)... so I guess I should take that at face value.

I'm a bit bothered by Aeronaut's uselessness because he wasn't useless in whatever NY game I played with him before he replaced out. On the other hand, ~reasons~.

Basically this is only not a scumread for me because of the tail end of 766.

[Cephrir]

Have you even read the thread?

[Cephrir]

18) BeastCharizard - Beast feels like he genuinely believes in his TSO townread. From experience, I find that people who are this sure are either town thinking they have found a killer tell or town who know that the target is town and I don't find it very likely Beast just decided to blatantly defend TSO (regardless of TSO's alignment) for no reason. I'm willing to wait but I'll eventually want an explanation for this read. While I wasn't a huge fan of his discrediting Metal Sonic in Post 916, his annoyance at iHouse for voting TSO rang genuine and the later vote on iHouse flows from there.

Does he? He was calling TSO super duper town forever two days into the game. TSO was barely engaged here, so I doubt he can have done all that much in their neighborhood to justify this. I feel like this is something I could easily see the beast I remember from Sabotage doing. It's entirely possible he could be scum doing that to look town, to reinforce TSO's similar read on him IIRC, and because of the personal connection he seems to be feeling there. I would really like to hear at least a cursory, general reason here, even if it's "because claim" or something equally vague. I don't think he's made literally a single post that didn't relate directly to either himself or TSO, and his whole tone is defensive rather than oriented towards scumhunting. He didn't post or do a ton in FEA either, but I remember thinking as I watched that what he did post was pretty damn town pretty consistently. I have not seen so much as a glimmer of that.

I find myself oddly hesitant to express suspicion of beast because I like him and he seems like the type to take it personally, but I'd vote this.

Remaining people of interest: Ace, Mask

I might skip Ace today because that seems like a waste of time and I've already ISOd him and come away with nullscum like 4 times.

[Cephrir]

Well, that should be enlightening.

[Cephrir]

19) The Mask - Not impressed with the abrasiveness and the generally volatile posting. I can't see where his FT scumread is coming from either. The way he was forming reads felt very mildly town like his calling House and TSO town in Post 1546 after they had an argument involving personal attacks. His reads on Post 843 don't feel like reads that scum would have and the sudden and drastic nature of his read change on AP, turning on us, and continuing to call FT scum for "prim and proper" posting all felt vaguely town but is super weak and probably one of my weakest townreads.

Yeah, the abrasiveness is excessive. I usually townread that but it's way over the top. Honestly I'm not gonna make a big post about this, I'm just gonna say I don't find any of the things you pointed out to be town. I would lynch this.

[Cephrir]

Is that not what's going on there? I really thought that had to be what was going on there.

[Cephrir]

Am I allowed to stomp through someone's line of questioning if they are scum?

[Cephrir]

I'll open that question up to the whole thread, what do you think the likelihood is? And yes, you fucking well did.

I see no reason to discount the possibility at all.

I don't know what mastin is claiming but I have at least one idea that fits better than bulletproof.

[Cephrir]

Am I allowed to stomp through someone's line of questioning if they are scum?

td isn't scum

Your fact isn't scum D:<

[Cephrir]

Face.

Your face isn't scum.

[Cephrir]

I like to give mastin time, but I will admit I would expect her to have showered me with obvtown by now.

[Cephrir]

I wonder how long it took my past mastin townreads to develop. I should give her exactly that long.

[Cephrir]

ZZZX probably isn't scum though.

[Cephrir]

Thus, why targeting ZX with investigatives/kills (or blocks for that matter) is a scumclaim.

It kinda isn't :\

[Cephrir]

I nearly giggled out loud at work at the pumbaaface

pedit @ f-16: no that's fine, I didn't think you were ignoring them.

I had ZZZX off my shortlist because I figured mastin had better reasons and there were so many other lurkers to choose from anyway. However, that doesn't seem to be the case now.

I think farside's town case on me consists mostly of things I could fake. I should read it again though, I didn't feel the need to pay a ton of attention to it given the contents not being terribly pertinent to my read of anyone.

ppedit: stop posting

[Cephrir]

I think it would be a decent town case if I was someone else.

[Cephrir]

You're so cute and fun right now it's a bit scary Nacho.

It's a good thing Tammy is so town or I'd be all like

""

[Cephrir]

Also, Nacho you showing up at deadline and trying to drive lynches through isn't sitting well with me.

Nah. Knowing he's almost certainly town it's kind of a wonder to behold.

[Cephrir]

My god your neighborhood sounds like a hellhole

To think I expected to wish I was in it

[Cephrir]

My god your neighborhood sounds like a hellhole

To think I expected to wish I was in it

i like it!
we're like a ragtag group of orphans who fight all the time in the beginning but by the end of the movie we learn the true meaning of friendship when our orphanage burns down and through a series of comical shenanigans we become drug lords in an international drug ring and we have to help each other hide our identities as kids from our adult underlings but in the end when they find out they decide to give up crime and put their effort into creating a "former criminals and current orphans" orphanage which is like a big family except one bad guy who dies

... <3

[Cephrir]

VOTE: beastcharizard

[Cephrir]

I am not really sure whether that is a good thing

Do you like being slathered in feces

[Cephrir]

beast is a much better lynch than tso.

[Cephrir]

I liked his reaction to my shitty gambit

[Cephrir]

How do you feel about the mask?

[Cephrir]

How do you feel about the mask?

i'd lynch there
i wouldn't be surprised if he flipped town

this is how I feel about peregrine

I'll almost certianly want to lynch him before too long because I don't think I have ever not wanted to lynch peregrine, except for day 1 of that NY game I played as twisted advice and I wasn't even right that time

anyway i'm off work peace

[Cephrir]

VOTE: peregrine

[Cephrir]

TD's reaction to me wasn't town. Null at best.

VOTE: beastcharizard

[Cephrir]

do you want a smug face too, cephrir?

Even if he's ton it wasn't a particularly town reaction IMO.

I do still think he is scum though, so you are welcome to smug face me if that's not the case!

[Cephrir]

I don't want to lynch Mask.

A point of agreement! Although I don't remember why I don't want to lynch Mask.

The page this was on was an okay page for him.

VOTE: peregrine

It seems like you're just voting everyone that Nacho suggests we lynch...

All the ones I'm okay with. We don't have much time and I think lending him my vote whenever he wants something I don't object to is productive. Beast is also just my favorite viable lynch.

VOTE: peregrine

It seems like you're just voting everyone that Nacho suggests we lynch...

Ceph-town plays support. Scumrir plays point.

Heh. I suppose you're right.

[Cephrir]

Is the town-lean because of how he replaced out?

Well not entirely. He's also part of my neighbourhood and from what I gathered, he fit the mould of a 'thinking'+'courteous' player. I think he was town who really wanted to play but RL got in the way. My read on his playstyle\character is that he would have replaced out a *long* time back if he was scum since he would have considered himself a burden to his buddies.
[But nothing too solid here - just enough to lean town and say I would prefer others over him today.]

This does seem an accurate representation. I don't feel strongly in favor of the conclusion, but yeah.

[Cephrir]

I don't know what we should do today. I just don't. Everything feels wrong if I stare at it long enough.

[Cephrir]

So, update:

We've both changed our mind on AP and at this point it feels like both the top wagons are going to be mislynches and I want to give Heartless time to catch up so won't be voting there either.

I'm indifferent between AP and TAOS but Ffery has a preference for not lynching AP as he can be more useful as town.

I prefer lynching Beast so I'll vote there if a wagon builds up. Otherwise, we've resigned ourselves to the notion that The Ace Of Spades is probably going to wind up lynched.

I pretty much am on board with this whole post.

[Cephrir]

I will make your life easier.

I have no vote right now and the House slot outed it because they thought I was scum. I have only defended myself. Haven't really done much contributing. The End.

I am not sure what you're trying to say here. It looks like an argument for lynching you.... was that the intent?

It's not out of the question from a design perspective.

I am in favor of not worrying about it right now.

[Cephrir]

VOTE: AP



I'll be around if we do something different.

[Cephrir]

I don't see any point in worrying about him right now because it's very obvious he isn't happening.

Also, even that looks wrong if I stare at it long enough.

[Cephrir]

(Moreover, things)

[Cephrir]

Sorry boys, I'm taken.

[Cephrir]

Is it possible that he forgot this game existed somehow....

[Cephrir]

VOTE: beast

let's play "how many times will ceph have to do this"

[Cephrir]

Someone else doesn't have a vote right now btw, but it's not likely to matter

[Cephrir]

i didn't read the last four pages, what am i doing

[Cephrir]

Holy fucking shit you people

[Cephrir]

Is this what tales of you felt like

[Cephrir]

Nacho.

Please help.

Why is this happening.

How do I make it stop.

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

[Cephrir]

Sorry ace

It's puppy time

[Cephrir]

I'm sitting on my vote waiting for the above requested count

[Cephrir]

I don't fully understand this theory thing.

Good night.

[Cephrir]

I'll make this post in two parts since I lost it the first time halfway through.

It was such a shiny theory. I'm a little sad.

There could be such a mechanic, but AP's flip said something about self-aligned.

I'm was theorising that there could be another Racist in the game. AP was a Norse Racist; we could have another pantheon racist. What I was trying to say was third party racists could have lie detector abilities.

Additional info - dram also verified that town is not excluded from winning if racist wins. Either way - not interested in lynching Cephrir.

The lie detector thing is an unfortunate coincidence. My role is quite good, and in view of this flip also incredibly scummy, but it's not as broken as AP's (because I'm town).

Cephrir is town as fuck. What os wrong with you sw?

If you ever want to explain why, I'll be listening.

Well yes. I saved cephrir last night. And there are no kills today.

I think it is possible I could've been a nightkill target, but I also think there are other explanations. I know of at least one possibility, though in light of your claim here, I feel iffier about what I know.

Also I am very glad you guys lynched ap yesterday I would be the first to die

Would vote Sonic, too.

@Mastin:

Super serious question time. Was AngryPidgeon in your neighborhood or not?

No.

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.
'Cause AP was, basically, a heavily modified bulletproof-cop-vig-survivor. His win condition is not mutually exclusive with the town's: winning when all outside the Norse pantheon is dead sounds bad (and to be fair, it largely is), but if the norse pantheon is made up of town, and they all live...then AP fulfills the wincon and so do the town members. (Admittedly, it requires careful planning to keep the norse pantheon alive and to make sure that it's town, butstill...)

So my stance doesn't change.
That was a godawful scumdriven lynch. We did not lynch scum D1. We lynched town.

VOTE: Skybird.
As good a scumread as any to start the day voting.

Bad. Skybird is in my hood and he is town

Does it not worry you that a lot of people have been saying things like this? Why do you believe you are the end all be all? I hate overconfident reads, so explain this if you don't want me to vote for you.

Aeronaut
TiphaineDeath
RachMarie
Skybird
Imperium

If you're seriously scumreading Imperium, you're going to need to present something very convincing. I'm watching how you treat this.

But AP was a townlynch, not a scumlynch.

KNEW you'd say that.

Because it's the truth, and you damn-well KNOW it is.
AP was not groupscum.
Groupscum would have no clue AP was a third party. (Unless they did, in which case they'd want him dead EVEN MORE than town would.)
Thus, groupscum had every incentive to be on his lynch.

It was scumdriven.

He wasn't groupscum and I think you are right that the wagon blew up out of nowhere easily because there was scum on it.

But, I feel quite sure that you're wrong about Imperium.

But, I don't think his wincon is as benign as you're making it out to be.

The wagon blew up out of everywhere because deadline was in a couple hours.

You could make an argument about the lack of traction on beast and ace, but I don't think that wagon especially happened because of scum piling on.

Such a wonderful day!

Mastic you are beautiful! I said the same thing about AP's lynch in my neighborhood.

On that note, I fear that perhaps another racist will target my pantheon and do not wish to disclose who else is in the PT. Could it be you, Magua??? Say it isn't so!

AP had 1 post saying he feels farside may be town (dated January 25th).

Oh, if only we could get scum to walk away. It pains me to do this but I have no other way of winning! I love you Sonic!

Vote: Metal Sonic

You should claim your motivation before I DAYVIG your face off

0/10 uncreative

Such a wonderful day!

Mastic you are beautiful! I said the same thing about AP's lynch in my neighborhood.

On that note, I fear that perhaps another racist will target my pantheon and do not wish to disclose who else is in the PT. Could it be you, Magua??? Say it isn't so!

AP had 1 post saying he feels farside may be town (dated January 25th).

Oh, if only we could get scum to walk away. It pains me to do this but I have no other way of winning! I love you Sonic!

Vote: Metal Sonic

Claim your flavor name, role, pantheon and all abilities by your next post. Or die.

I will admit to a more than passing interest in this.

Metal Sonic, Ffery thinks you are scum so you should really step it up if you want me to continue putting effort into derailing your wagon.

I'm town. I find it hard to believe that FFery thinks I'm scum after I've been sucked into a hole and r***ed by bitmap. Get bitmap's testimony I'm super OBVTOWN

I'll be interested to see if this happens. I don't see how it could since your PT apparently died and neither of you is reading the game, but uuuuuh k.

I'd really like to know who was in AP's pantheon

If I was a setup speccing man, I would suggest that hood has at least one scum.

I am not a setup speccing man.

[Cephrir]

Not sure where the Metal Sonic hate is coming from. There were a few posts that I didn't like in his entrance but nothing overwhelmingly objectionable.

For me, I'm scum reading him because he's all over the place with his gambits. Then in the hood he asks if we are town and then decides that we are all town without much interaction between everyone to be able to make that read IMO.

This continues to disturb me.

Your omgus is showing sweetie.

I posted a write up on you in the neighborhood last night and I'm waiting on dramonic's OK to post it here, so your buzzword holds no power in this case, hon.

True facts. I really liked it actually (and it's now pretty much seen the light of day) and made me wonder why I was townreading MS before.

i just took a look at cephrir iso..

it is pretty bad

what i call "horse shit"


i read it from the back to the front

the front was better but it appeared more weaselly and scummy. the back is lol.


i dont see an overpowered Pr claim. did i miss something? I saw stupid crumbs gambits that i could do

I do not believe that you honestly read my iso. Especially since you have nothing to say about my ingame interactions except "lol" and apparently did not see me softclaim several times. Maybe your eyes slid over all the words I typed but you clearly didn't read them.

I think Ceph is more likely than not to be town anyway. Why do you think he's scum?

this is a nasty as heck scummy as heck post and you appear to have more information than I do.



I mean OF COURSE you have more information than I do, everyone does, i didnt read the game.


I meant that you are scum projectioning

???????????????????????

I'm not going to be apathetic this game, by the way. It's my only game right now and I like my role.

I like my role = I know how to play this role and it's probably at least a bit powerful.

Nobody is going to say that if their role was commuter or something.

I certainly do have a philosophy about it. Time will tell whether I follow it to the letter or not. I am currently leaning towards not proving it tonight and instead arranging things so I can prove it in a more effective manner later, but it depends on how some things develop today.

Such a wonderful day!

Mastic you are beautiful! I said the same thing about AP's lynch in my neighborhood.

On that note, I fear that perhaps another racist will target my pantheon and do not wish to disclose who else is in the PT. Could it be you, Magua??? Say it isn't so!

AP had 1 post saying he feels farside may be town (dated January 25th).

Oh, if only we could get scum to walk away. It pains me to do this but I have no other way of winning! I love you Sonic!

Vote: Metal Sonic

Claim your flavor name, role, pantheon and all abilities by your next post. Or die.

I will admit to a more than passing interest in this.

Why?

Because role-related reasons.

But it's probably best that it not happen right now.

Yeah, I'm not going to read 20 odd pages of this Bullshit, I roleblocked mastin and there was no nightkill. VOTE: mastin

After everything she said yesterday? You're so dumb if you aren't scum it fucks with my head. By the way, why can't I target you with day abilities?

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Cephrir]

Odd. I wonder if someone day roleblocked me yesterday or something.

You shouldn't target someone who begs that much not to be targeted. If she's groupscum I don't think there's any chance they would be sending her to make the kill in the current gamestate, so not much to gain.

[Cephrir]

Yeah, but I now know of three possible explanations for missing kills, and you'd know one of the others too if you read the thread.

They wouldn't risk her running into a watcher. If mastin is on a scumteam, they would be foolish to risk her.

[Cephrir]

If I was scum with mastin, she would probably give a fuck about the game.

[Cephrir]

@ooba: explain what happened to at least one kill.

- TD's bramble (Although a TD scum kill is unlikely too)
- Dram's ultimate (Circle of protection)
- Any number of roles I don't know about (JK, Doc, RB etc)

---

Far side - why did you protect cephrir? ( if that wasn't farside, whoever it was I'd like to know the answer)

Reading Cephrir as not scum.

I wondered because I thought it seemed like a strange protect.

What are your thoughts on vezok?

It doesn't seem strange in light of his reads yesterday.

How in the fuck is anyone reading Post 3085 as town?

I cannot find a single thing I wrote there that wasn't null.

we're really going back there?

For the love of everything that is good and holy. I will pay for the privilege of not watching this.

[Cephrir]

Gonna do myself a favor and not read that^ until I've parsed my own thoughts on the matter.

[Cephrir]

<3

[Cephrir]

You're claiming scum and behaving guiltily. If anti wasn't in your hydra, you would be at the bottom of my scum list

I like TTH here, and that doesn't even match up with other places I've seen her so ick.

Low hanging fruit?
Isn't that what metal is?

Not really.

CEPH didn't actually fullclaim so his piecemeal claim sounds like unbelievable

What the fuck are you talking about

[Cephrir]

i realise ceph is just sitting on his big fat bum and laughing his ass off at the drama

oh man

that is so not town

A) this reads more contrived than those lines in the amazing race about how great the car they're driving is ("Ooooh maaaan this ceph rides so bad!!!!!!")
B) where the fuck am I doing that

also i saw that ceph crumbed lie detector and fake gambited lie detector so his crumbs of "omg my role is super cool" is bullshit. don't know why vezok wanted to save him.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

but ceph has townread me in the early game and early reads and that makes me happy

i never seen ceph play so i dont know his meta

I think we've played before somewhere.

[Cephrir]

Skybird
Imperium

Why is your vote on Skybird then?

Because vanity votes are for the end of the day; pragmatic votes are for the beginning of the day. The other way around just leads to too much bitterness.



(Because I felt like it. It's not like I'll be able to get an Imperium lynch anyway. Even if I push hard, and push hard, right now, and continue to push. Even if I gave it 100%. It's not happening today. Thus, my vote would be little more than just that, a vanity vote.)

:/

[Cephrir]

Farside!

Yeah tell me about it I am not even sure who has not posted yet? I need something from everyone before I can start sorting some of the slots out bah

This reads scummy to me.

Nah, we need votes on Ankamius. Even assuming 119 is okay (it's not), there's still been lots of stuff to talk about since the game "start," so the RVS vote, lack of scumhunting, and fluffy commentary is by far the worst, scummiest thing here.

Thought on rach would be lovely.

Xombie: why did you focus only on comments about you? And when you believed ms was faking a read why didn't you vote for him right then?

Vote: rach

From a low level perspective at least, there is continuity here.

Those of you who are already town reading me could you explain WHY?

Bit is actually better at being scum than town. Do not let the VI routine fool you.

Of the 3 votes on me his seems the scummiest. No reasoning giving just a bald vote after two votes have already been cast. It looks like he is going for low hanging fruit.

VOTE: Bit

You are not low hanging fruit.
Why did you focus only on those that voted you?

So here's the first sign of umbrage.

Imp: Why did you not mention this concern of yours sooner?

As for the discussion about xombie, I thought he was a newb to mafia, which was why I felt his reaction was more questionable. Most newbs as far as I have run across are aware of gambits like that.

It occurs to me that I thought this post was weird when I first read it and I noted that in my catchup yet I still don't feel satisfied about it.

Thanks Tammy especially since you often see me as scummy that makes more sense on you and Nacho, so yeah you can go in my likely town pile And that jives with what I know about Nacho who does tend to read me as town generally.


Still want to know from SW (fery and falcon) about why their early town read on me.


Farside I did not say everyone voting me was scum, I was basing my read and vote on the WAY that Bit joined the wagon, and the fact that peeps were brushing him off as town and VI. I have seen him pull some pretty good stunts as scum before and even 3rd party.

I didn't say you thought that.
I asked why you focused only on that that voted for you.

Continuity.

Xombie: why did you focus only on comments about you?

Just trying to keep up.
What do you think of the people asking for summaries and/or not reading at all?

And when you believed ms was faking a read why didn't you vote for him right then?

Idk man, can you type like this:

People are lazy, it's null that players don't want to read and ask for summaries.

Vote: xombie

That response does not awnser my question at all.


I'm also a bit paranoid about vezo. I don't recall him analysising post like he did and I think that his current post is the most town I've ever seen him. I'll put that under paranoid for now.

I think responding to Xombie's flippancy with a vote is town. Were this, say, a calculated attempt to get him to break and act scummy, his response should indicate he's not the type to succumb to pressure easily. Not that I believe most scum players do things like that.

As weird as it sounds I find it scummy he responded to the pt before posting in this thread.
My reason for this may seem odd though.
I had house as a loose town read. The play here reminded me of duck tales mafia.
Changed? Not really. It takes me something odd or flips to change reads on day 1.
I haven't attempted to promote his lynch mostly because no one is really that chatty in the pt.

On first read, I think I liked this for the out of the box reasoning, but in retrospect, I dislike the awareness of it and repetition of the point that it will sound odd.

For some reason I am having trouble caring about this iso.

i get snippy. i'm a snippy person. I felt it was a bit of a reach. Yes plural.

and i been busy. so i haven't posted, hopefully i can fix that.

idk what "you have people talking about AP " but for me it was mostly about 1058. Plus i totally disagree with his reads on farside and MS. And i don't really see how he could have those opinions

Ooba asked the say question. He is not a newb. The wording caught his eye,so your response being primary towards the newb making it read very demeaning towards him.
So you have one post from ap you don't like?
That's it?

Yea I'm not moving my vote.


Ap: I think it was that I didn't make a list. Sometimes I make list, sometimes I don't. I don't really explain town reads unless someone finds them scummy.

I feel like farside was the first person to point out how little sense ace's ap read has made

btw that still doesn't make sense to me and I would like an explanation

Cephrir: what do you think of ace?

Farside doesn't seem to be overflowing with townreads, but the ones she does have, such as myself, are handled properly. She has an issue with ace? Asks a townread for an opinion. That's consistent with the townread being real.

I'm thinking but I still have this itch about spade. Granted rach' vote and reason is God awful and Pere just jumped on without a word makes my skin crawl.
That all said I need original thought coming from spade to switch off.

this is a good post mostly, though it would give me hives if ace flipped scum

Read everything.
Still no original thought from ace so vote still staying.

blah blah consistent stances blah. doesn't back down given attempted appeasement blah.

@ Farside, can you elaborate on your Rach suspicion? You say that she is scum partly for pushing Ace on the neighborhoods plural post that Ace made. But you had pushed him on the same grounds so why does it make Rach scum?

I did notable the same ducking case or reason at all.
It's like you did not even read my case at all

Alright vezo and cephrir, I'll get off my box for now but consider me not happy with rach or her "case"

Vote: ace

actually taking townreads' opinions into account

{towncase on me}

I am mislynchable despite openly having a strong role, so why go to this trouble? Unless you want to argue it intentionally was bad, but it only could have been so from someone aware of my meta which she really isn't

I also explained my rach scum read and I still feel she's not scum hunting or progressing reads.
The case she made was nothing like mine and I'm sick of solar saying it is.

Farside pretty routinely gets upset by the same thing (lacking original thought and not digging in) which I think is town. As opposed to wanting to have all kinds of different flashy reasons to look super proactive.

Overall I think this exercise cooled my townread a bit and furthermore was extremely boring for some reason

[Cephrir]

I am looking for something from TWIE. I have no idea whether it is an accurate or useful meta thing, but I want to check.

[Cephrir]

I might not tell you what it is.

[Cephrir]

Oh?

[Cephrir]

@SW- Disagree, depending on how it's gone about.

[Cephrir]

@SW- Disagree, depending on how it's gone about.

I haven't gotten down to closely reviewing TWIE yet. Ffery has meta-concerns and at a glance, I agree but actual read will come in a bit.

I was actually talking theory. I don't have a tremendous read on TWIE yet.

Ceph - why did you do that farside ISO town case?

Heartless has been pestering me to in the neighborhood and IIRC also the thread.

Scum like to make people laugh though.

Sorry guys, it turns out I'm scum.

Might not matter though because ms keeps threatening me with his very real and not bullshit dayvig.

Weren't you the one with neighborhood issues with ms? What were they?

Immediate insistence that everyone claim in neighborhood. Decides we're all town before he claims.

When he gets back from the nether he wants us to reclaim because "we have better english" than our predecessors.

Gets asked about gambits, says he's been totally honest in the neighborhood and not so much in the main thread, but that "it slipped mind before" and does have a real dayvig and then adds it to his claim.

When pressed he then says that he wouldnt claim a dayvig in a neighborhood that he didnt think was all town, even though he declared us town before he claimed.

Response to my scum read and telling him that I dont believe his bad claim is to say that he could dayvig me to prove it.

Strange lack of response to things in thread that I think he should have reacted to. Said he didnt notice either of them when I brought them up.

Dear lord.

[Cephrir]

I think that Metal Sonic continues to be a mess and I am happy that I am already voting him.

[Cephrir]

I thought he didn't remember having meta with me o.o

[Cephrir]

So what read do you have on MS? You say you don't trust MS with his ultimate but then you vote for Rach. Can you explain that?

Rach hasn't done shit. I agree with farside's case on her.

MS is more of a null read. Just because I don't trust him with his ultimate doesn't mean I believe he's scum. I believe he's going to fuck up town with his ultimate regardless of alignment.

Given how easy it apparently is to get mutual townreads on neighbors for everyone around here...