I may or may not be the Kingmaker.
Also,
That is all.
I personally believe that the List of Execution is only as useful as the town/king who use it. Early on, I'd agree with some limits to the King, but we don't want the king to just blend in by following the will of the town.Mert wrote:Talking of discussion, are people happy with the "List of Execution" system that was used in the last game? To those lucky people that were in the first one, do you feel that it worked sufficiently or would you change the mechanics? To those that weren't (myself included), I guess a more general question of whether you think there should be rules that the King must follow and if so, what (and how prescriptive) should they be?
Why are you claiming? It can't possibly be a useful strategy here. (Maybe the Kingmaker should claim if on a LOE. IMOMNBTK [I may or may not be the kingmaker-since I expect to be saying this phrase a lot, I better just create an acronym now])cardb0ardb0x wrote:fine. lynch me. if, after you lynch me, i'm a townie, just please, like, examine mrbuddylee. he's kind of obnoxious. if town wins, i'll count it as a win for me even if i'm lynched in the first round.
honestly, i trust pj to make the right descision. and actually read what i write. i admit i made factual errors in my earlier posts. i know i'm easy to bandwagon. no self-respecting mafia player would NOT vote for me. Sorry for distracting everybody during the first round and wasting a lynch.
It's not as if anybody will be king permanently. If you think there's evidence that a king is scum, you should point it out for town to consider on future days.ShadowLurker wrote:Although that was a joke, I would just like to say we should ALWAYS give the King the benefit of the doubt or else, this day won't be productive at all.
So for now, assume PJ is town and his intentions are good so we won't get sidetracked.
Any day where the King is scum is likely a lost day anyways. In that case you might as well point out why he is scum; maybe you can convince town to have such a scum test a hero claim or try to execute a likely partner.ShadowLurker wrote:Yeah, I'm sure we'll get tons done in the day arguing whether over the current King is scum or not.
It's deliberate. If I actually put the quotes there, then I just get a sentence (and no quote box or reference to hiab, since quote boxes are disabled in sigs). I really should just put hiab's name at the end of the sentence and no quote tags at all, but I prefer this style.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Thok, you should fix your siggy. You need quotes around hiab's name.
Let me rephrase my question. What do you expect to gain from saying you are a townie? Even if there's no disadvantage to claiming (which I don't think is true), you can't really expect people to suddenly go "Oh my god! carb0ardb0x claimed townie! He's definately not mafia!"cardb0ardb0x wrote:Thok wrote:Why are you claiming?Other people have said this too. Here's the deal:SpectrumVoid wrote:Claiming when not under pressure is a scum-tell.
There are only mafia and townies in this game. Everyone in the entire game is trying to claim townie right now. Would someone try to claim mafia? Am I missing something?
I can appreciate that you were already planning to post; my concern was specifically about the use of the word non-comment, which seems like an odd choice of phrase. (It seemed to suggest that you'd be delibarately making a contentless response to PJ at a later time, not that you were busy and unable to respond until a later time). If you had said "I'm currently busy with a paper, and I'll comment about PJ once I get done with it", you'd say the same thing, but in a less confusing and.or worrisome manner. But maybe I'm just reading too much into your reasons for using non.Ameliaslay wrote:I thought you'd appreciate the fact that I'm intending to post, and wouldn't be posting just because you called me out or whatever.. but essentially twas a placeholder.Thok wrote:Um, then why wouldn't she just say comment? It seems like a weird choice of wording, as though she was essentially admitting she was going to make some sort of active lurking comment that didn't say anything.
I'll comment that you may have misinterpreted my comments about endgame justification; in the endgame in Kingmaker 1 it was believed to be important to keep the kingmaker hidden to prevent scum from obtaining a position where they could win the game by force (because of the no repeat kings rule and the kingmaker cannot become king rule). Obviously, that justification doesn't apply to this game, as the no repeats rule has been thrown out for endgame.I didn't really read the endgame of I, so I'd never really thought about it like that... I honestly couldn't ever think of the Kingmaker as a very important confirmable person. I'm glad you brought that out, that makes it a lot clearer in my mind..Thok wrote:I agree with the trying to keep the Kingmaker as hidden as possible; I was making this argument even before the endgame justification in Kingmaker I. I'd prefer that scum doesn't get a chance to kill a kingmaker who's good at his job in hopes of replacing him with a less talented kingmaker. (IMOMNBTK
As a person who frequently uses both FOS's and IGMEOY's in non-Kingmaker games, I could see the difference between a vote and an FOS here; it's showing how confident you are in you judgement.MrBuddyLee wrote:Pablito is definitely scum. Who else sees the slightest bit of difference between an FOS and a vote in THIS game? Only jumpy scum.
For the record, I'm thrilled with MoS's policy of not voting. No problem with it whatsoever.
Reading a few games on the site will get you a feel for how long they are. For day one of a game this size, 3 weeks to a month is close to typical, the longest I've seen is two months for a single day. Figure that you're in for a 6 month commitment (assuming you aren't nightkilled or lynched earlier); the first Kingmaker ran for about 5 months and was 8 game days long, for an average of about two weeks a game day (plus some extra time for game nights that should go faster this time around).cardb0ardb0x wrote:lol kind of, i'm used to entire games taking sometime over half an hour, as opposed to half a year... and it must kind of stink to spend 14 days deliberating and end up lynching a townie...Ameliaslay wrote:Getting antsy for it to be night?cardb0ardb0x wrote:Umm... 1 newbie question. How long are days/nights expected to take in an online mafia game? And yeah, FoSes and votes are kinda different, even though the rules of kingmaker don't specifically state so.
Gah- I hadn't been really paying attention to him in particular, and you forced me to do a reread. He's probably spent a bit too much time on theory discussion for me (which is a good way of actively lurking early in the game), but I have less trouble with his votes.pablito wrote:@Thok, what's your thought on Mert?
You seem to have a rule of voting for people who vote based off of rules. I'm curious to see if you plan to vote yourself.pablito wrote:Nonetheless,vote: ChannelDelibird. I find that both Mert and CDB are openly suspecting people because of themes (wacky voting or tying people together) and are failing to jump out of that box.
This is probably a weak case, but the patterns are too odd to not point out. Plus I find that sensible scum often hide behind such "rules" so that they can justify their votes.
I don't necessarily want you to shut up, but I think if you are town, you'd be better served by thinking through your posts more carefully.pablito wrote:Well, Thok, wrong or not, would you rather I shut up? I don't see how that helps any more. I can tone myself down, but I think pointing at some of the lesser visible players is only helping the town. While I have attracted attention, I have also pointed out some of the people that have stayed in the limelight. I know my arguments aren't always the best, but I pick up on the small things that no one else sees.
I realize that, and there are people I wouldn't vote for needing a replacement. But given the tone of some of the discussions we have (especially the references/interest in Kingmaker 1), vikingfan asking for a replacement in this game is worth keeping an eye on.Phoebus wrote:@Thok: eh...why do you want to open that can of worms?
Meta gaming so early on?
I have known cases where people asked to be replaced because they were under pressure or looked ahead and thought they couldn't handle the pressure. Yet, such behaviour needs to be monitored and remembered. Starting so early will just lead to unpleasantness.
I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about. Or rather, I sort of think I know what you are talking about, but wonder why you would try to interpret my comments in that way, since that was clearly not what I meant at all, and I have a hard time believing that my statement could have been read that way.Ameliaslay wrote:Two different situations, interesting that you bring it up… Vikingfan’s request for a replacement came late in the game when he was clearly under pressure, how can you compare them?Thok wrote:I realize that, and there are people I wouldn't vote for needing a replacement. But given the tone of some of the discussions we have (especially the references/interest in Kingmaker 1), vikingfan asking for a replacement in this game is worth keeping an eye on.
I understand how your "style of play" is supposed to work. I think you do a poor job of implementing it.pablito wrote:Thok, you'll never understand my style of play and I've accepted it. We've gone over it before.
OK, humor me. Why are you including Ubertimmy with me and Yos2?Mastermind of Sin wrote:You should also consider executing one of Thok, Ubertimmy, or Yosarian2. I bet at least one of them is scum.
You're seriously claiming that I've been "lying low"? I've already been in arguments with Ameliaslay, Vaughn, Pablito, and now you. I believe the only people with more posts in this game than me are Glork and pablito.Mastermind of Sin wrote:Also, anyone who is voting a lot of people but has no one voting them is suspect in my book. That means they're spreading suspicion around while laying low enough that no one is really watching them. Add Twomz to the list right next to Thok tyvm.
I didn't say that Phoebus's play suggests that he is protown; I said that the interaction of his play with yours suggests that it's not the case that both of you are scum. I am not ready yet to rule out the case that your scumdar is just off.Mastermind of Sin wrote:That's exactly my point. the fact that he's playing differently does not in and of itself point towards a particular alignment, but if you look at the particular playstyle he's using, while it may not be optimal protown play, there are earmarks here and there that point to him being protown, as I've already pointed out.spectrumvoid wrote:Why 'even Thok'?
Sorry about that, I meant to say you need good reasons for accusing someone. (My defence: vote counts are so confusing this game... I went by tone of posts instead of vote numbers )
Well, yes, his play could be different. But different play does not = scum or = town, it's just a matter of playstyle, not alignment.
Huh? This argument only applies if you think both of them are townies, and even then it's wonky.pablito wrote:Frankly if you execute one of MoS/Phoebus, scum and/or misguided townies may gang up on the surviving one and work him until he says something remotely scummy and that'll keep going until some day down the line when the other gets executed.