Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Toaster Strudel]

Make stuff up it's more fun and you'll waste less time.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Okay.

Vote: Zindaras, Lowell

They should probably die.

[Thok]

Vote Count

King Yosarian2 (2):

Cogito Ergo Sum (2): zindaras, lowell
Der Hammer (2):
DragonsofSummer (2):
Fritzler (1): Everybody but Fritzler
KaleiÐoscøpe (2): Smashy
Lowell (2):
Mastermind of Sin (2):
Mnowax (4): MOS
pablito (2): KaleiÐoscøpe, Der Hammer, Smashy, DragonsOfSummer, Shanba, Zindaras, mnowax
petroleumjelly (1):
RafK (1): Yosarian2, Spectrumvoid, CES
Shanba (2): spectrumvoid, zindaras, mnowax
Smashy (4):
spectrumvoid (4):
ThAdmiral (1): pablito, smashy, Fritzler
Toaster Strudel (1):
Zindaras (4): mnowax, spectrumvoid

[Zindaras]

Could the people voting me (barring Fritz) explain why they are voting me?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

See [1775].

[mnowax]

To start with:

You'd better hope I become King soon, then. I'm not afraid of the big bad vote. If the King decides to execute me, so be it. I don't need votes to tell you who's scum, and I'm certainly not going to conform to anyone's wishes but my own. If you have a problem with it, I guess it sucks to be you.

Can you actually make any kind of argument why you not voting is helpful to the town?

And I don't know why you're assuming the opinion of the people who don't like your "plan" to never vote is meaningless. For one thing, our current king has already said he is going to take votes into account when making a list of people he'd consider executing. For another, making multiple people wonder why you're acting in an apparently anti-town way is bad because you never know who will be king tommorow.

Nope. It's not antitown, either. It's just how I feel. And I don't feel like voting. Also, I'm not assuming that your opinion is meaningless, I just

don't

care

. For those of you skimmers who use votes to keep track of shit, then you can assume that I find no one scummy, if it makes you happy. If you want to know who I think is scum, you'll actually have to read my posts. If you want a quick reference of what I thought, take notes on what I say. It'll be better for you in the end.

This is ludicrous! You plan not to vote in a game where the Votes mean little in terms of this game? And you don't have a reason for it! you just try to shirk it off. So you berate the people who are looking at you funnny to get them off your back. very nice. and very scummy.

My problem is that I am trying to understand why MoS would defend Phoebus for reasons I don't even understand, and for reasons I think do absolutely nothing in making me think Phoebus is pro-town. If MoS is scum, I seriously doubt he would defend his partner so blatantly and so poorly (WIFOM, blah blah, I know). If MoS is town, then he might actually be on to something, and I am just plain not understanding what he is getting at. (Of course, he could easily be town and completely wrong, in which case I will have to thwack him over the head later).

One thing about this.... the only time I can recall watching MoScum extensively was CoOps Mafia, in which he defended DGB near the beginning of her implosion. Though you say you wouldn't expect MoS to blatantly defend a scumbuddy, I've seen it in person. It's a distinct possibility.

That's because DGB was the only person in my scumgroup that could efficiently investigate people for me. I needed those investigations, so I had to stick my neck out to keep her alive for longer even though I knew it would get me in trouble. Even with what went down, I think we had a good chance at winning if not for random shit that happened afterwards.

What possible reason could I have for thinking Phoebus was more important than myself in my scumgroup, unless the mafia in this game have a bunch of special power abilities? What could I hope to gain by sticking my neck out on Day 1, knowing that once one of us died and was revealed as scum, the other would probably be executed in the near future? This isn't the sort of situation where sticking my neck out to give a scumbuddy one extra day will mean the difference between winning the game and losing it.

I would have no reason to do this except for the express purpose of trying to wifom you into thinking I wasn't scum with him, but the wifom would only come into full effect AFTER he died and was revealed as scum, so you get into the big circle of logic and points that make my head hurt, so I'm not gonna bother trying to type it all out. It's really up to you to spin the wheel of circular logic and pick a place to stop.

This part is from the Phoebus defense from MoS. Were you trying to incite the meta-gaming Wifom? I absolutely hate this line of thinking. i believe this gets dropped after this , so i am bringing it back up now. Do you think Phoebus / Dragons of summer is innocent now?

LuckayLuck: I expect he’s not scum from the sheer number of players he’s marked off as townie to highly townie, I would expect a scum player to mark off fewer townies in order to keep more viable lynch candidates around. I also don’t believe he’s working to get people to not suspect him by saying he thinks they are townie because he’s simply cast too many of those connections.

Agreed. His posts so far look very pro-town to me.

Mastermind of Sin
He starts off by saying he’s never going to vote till he’s King, certainly something I’d expect from MoS, it doesn’t really change whether he’s more or less likely to be scum because this guy honestly doesn’t care about what role he is when he does things, if he wants to do it, he’ll do it regardless of which side he’s on.

He honestly doesn’t say very much this game, he doesn’t push very hard for the people he thinks are guilty or defend adamantly the people he thinks are innocent. Basically he won’t be saying much, this is type of behaviour is more in line with general MoS behaviour, he will pursue it regardless of alignment. I’m more willing to put him in my townie column because I’ve just seen so many games where MoS psuedolurks through and will defend his lurkish strategy.

I still don't like his "I won't vote" stance, and he hasn't done as much as I would like this game,

but he has committed to strong non-logical stances on several people, just flatly declaring that cardboardbox, PJ, and Phoebus were town for no apparent reason.

This actually is pretty typical behavior from a pro-town MOS, he often "goes on gut", is absolulty convinced he's right, gives no arguments to back himself up, and then is frustrated no one listens to him. I'll take another look at him later if some of the people he's defended turn out to be scum, but for now, I'm slightly leaning towards him being pro-town. Want to hear more from him though, and it'd be nice if he'd answer my questions (such as "who would be on your LOE right now if you were king?").

Mert
The guy doesn’t really say much of substance, I can say the same thing for plenty of players so far. The easiest way for scum to hide is to stay within the current, when they see most players lurk, they will follow along and do the same.

Agreed.

In general, I like Pooky's analysis posts so far, his logic is quite similar to what I've been thinking, and he's moved up to about neutral in my eyes (he was around "slighly scummy" before, back during the pre-crash bird wagon).

I take offense to this. I would argue that I generally DO make arguments (outside of scumchat) and present reasoning why I think someone is scum. This game is an exception. Perhaps if you could link me to other games where I have exhibited this behavior, it would lend weight to your claim, because i certainly don't remember doing something like this often.

In general i agree with Yos's analysis. you have made substanceless claims about certain people, and yet give zero reason to this up to this point. I would understand this if you're picking out scum, but generally why would you point out townies? why are you so reluctant to point out too many scum? and now look at this..

I support either a Yos or Pooky execution, good finds, Glork. I'd still prefer Yos, though.

Now Yos is the top of your hit list for pointing out your play.

ill continue later, but this is just a start. Some of you are blindly standing behind MoS because his experience and playstyle are erratic and he is a veteran of Mafia. I'm not seeing past it.

[Toaster Strudel]

Okay.

Vote: Zindaras, Lowell

They should probably die.

Unassailable logic.

Vote: Zindaras, Lowell

[pablito]

Zindaras, I'm voting you to pressure you into contributing hardcore. I wanna see hardcore action coming from you. You talk about trying to jump back into the game, but I wanna see it happen. Yeah.

mnowax, who's all blindly following MoS? I'm only doing it because I'm kinda bored. And I want to see you under pressure, which you are, so I applaud MoS for making you (mnowax) sweat.

Okay, this is some good stuff we're getting. I advise that lots of people start talking soon to get some good discussion going. RafK and ThAdmiral seem to have disappeared after their nice brief stint here. I liked what they tried to say, and want to see more.

And where dat Smashy been?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Still waiting for mnowax to explain how I'm scum. So far he's just reiterating arguments that have already been used against me not once, but multiple times before in this game. No new contribution from him yet.

[Lowell]

Still here. Not reading. Yell if you need me.

[Zindaras]

I am back in the game. Not hardcore, no. But I don't think I'll reread this game. I have enough problems motivating myself as is.

[ThAdmiral]

vote: mnowax

Omgus vote and then tried to justify it, but quite frankly I don't buy it.

Unvote: pablito

I'm not sure if this guy's scum or not but he is too valuable to get rid of right now as he's pushing for lots of discussion.

[Der Hammer]

Vote:mnowax

until he says something

[Fritzler]

Fritzler (1): Everybody but Fritzler

I actually unvoted yos2 also, in 1751

thanks

[Fritzler]

Sorry I'm here. I'm just trying to develop new opinions because one of the things I thought yesterday (i.e. LL is scum) turned out to be wrong. so I have been using MoS's posts of what has happened already and reading up on what has been going on so far today. I'm not really sure who I think is scum right now but I will post them as soon as I figure it out.

you know how i know you';re scum?

You know how I know you're wrong?

But on another note I'm sorry everybody, but

Mod could you look for a replacement for me?

I'm not really feeling this game anymore, but I hope everyone else has a great time.

Mod Edit: I am searching for a replacement. Also, I'm testing my ability to make mod edits in this thread.

cuz you're a quitter

[pablito]

Der Hammer, have you read the thread, if so, why haven't you shared your thoughts on multiple people in a singular post for once. If not, please share you thoughts on multiple people in a singular post because I think you've been in the game long enough to make such a post.

Also, DoS is still a good execution candidate. That role is cursed.

And I'm starting to get fucking pissed that people "no longer care about this game".

If you even want to DARE to use that excuse, please give us the pleasure of at least detailing the specifics of why the reality of the game no longer meets your original expectations of this game. Then after doing so, please explain what could have been done to rectify that situation. Because this is not just a single person dropping out because of absence. There are multiple dropping out who simply don't care. This is a game problem that needs to be addressed. So if you're going to drop out, at least help us solve this problem. Call it an exit interview as you will.

[mnowax]

Yeah i might be lurking a bit because ( until now ) i haven't had much to say, it doesn't mean i don't care about this game. Leave the dead weight behind and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a separate note, MoS, My theory is that you have a tendency of just throwing out suspicions, which thats fine if its who you think is scummy, but you throwing the " X is town " without you really being suspicious of anyone disturbs me a bit. Thats all, it's not much, but it seems to me to be a change in play style. i don't like to meta-game, but in this case it is almost obvious to me.

Go ahead make me sweat. I am not afraid of going to the noose to show everyone I am town.

[Zindaras]

Let me put it this way: I can't motivate myself to do a whole lot of things for Mafia at the moment. Don't know why, maybe it's a lack of sleep (which I do intend to remedy over the course of the week or something). Regardless, in the frame of not rereading the thread, I will play to the best of my abilities. Just like I did in Two-Headed Mafia 2 (and, well, I

was

right about Glork in that one.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

What gave it way that game? The confession?

[Zindaras]

No, I said he was scum before he confessed, actually (and before voidybuns claimed he was scum).

[spectrumvoid]

SV returns!

I need to go check what I did during the Glork/MBL issue... I can't even remember what I did.

A tentative

vote: smashy

for his predecessor's actions.

vote: MoS

he was on my LOS yesterday.

I'm also voting Smashy for not executing me without sharing his opinions. Obviously, I know I'm not scum. But I didn't like the way Smashy hung back and abruptly made the decision. I'd also like to hear what his decisions are. (To clarify, I'm saying his a scummy king, not that he's scummy for not killing me:))

I'm going to try to start remembering who's replacing who.

[Thok]

VitaminR replaces DragonsofSummer

[VitaminR]

Will read the thread and post content soon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yeah i might be lurking a bit because ( until now ) i haven't had much to say, it doesn't mean i don't care about this game. Leave the dead weight behind and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

On a separate note, MoS, My theory is that you have a tendency of just throwing out suspicions, which thats fine if its who you think is scummy, but you throwing the " X is town " without you really being suspicious of anyone disturbs me a bit. Thats all, it's not much, but it seems to me to be a change in play style. i don't like to meta-game, but in this case it is almost obvious to me.

Go ahead make me sweat. I am not afraid of going to the noose to show everyone I am town.

Note that he once again fails to actually respond to my points against him, AND fails to finish his analysis of me that would supposedly "prove" that I am scum. Now that his OMGUS of me has been called bullshit, he doesn't want to finish it and backs off to reiterating the "theory" that he's already said. His backing off from it shows that he really didn't have proof that I was scum, which means that he's just scum OMGUSing me. Also note that on top of all this, he falls back to the "you'll be lynching a townie" defense. I think we bagged ourselves a good one this time.

Der Hammer, why did you vote mnowax saying you'd unvote when he said something, when he'd just posted on the same page and was at least giving a semblence of contribution? Your vote on him looks a lot like a scumbuddy trying to quietly jump on the wagon. I suggest we execute Der Hammer after Mnowax.

[ThAdmiral]

I suggest we execute Der Hammer after Mnowax.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves.