NY 169: The EPIC XD Mafia Game of Greatness (Game Over)

[BROseidon]

hi guys

VOTE: geists

mind=blown.

[BROseidon]

Just to let everyone know this game is a town win.

[BROseidon]

(scum, just claim and save us all the time)

[BROseidon]

Are you scum BROseidon?

[BROseidon]

Yo'd be surprised how big name games can fall apart. Go look at scummies invitational. Keeping egos off the thread will probably be an important method of town powerkeeping.

Nacho's in this game.

I can't lose ^_^

[BROseidon]

Official town block application form v1

I,

BROseidon

am applying to MC Maraca's AwesomeSauce Town Block. My townreads are:

MC Maraca; ~reasons~

I think I am a good fit for the townblock because

I'm going to win this game. Duh.

Attached is my payment,

townreading you because I'm not an idiot

made payable to MC Maraca.

[BROseidon]

ftr I'm deciding right now between which not-townreading MC person to vote.

[BROseidon]

ffery is that you?

[BROseidon]

^GiF or Nero?

[BROseidon]

ffery is that you?

BRO if you can't tell when I'm posting by now you never will.

Can you get a schtick like mollie has to make it easy to tell you apart?

Also, what's your opinion on MC?

[BROseidon]

ffery is that you?

BRO if you can't tell when I'm posting by now you never will.

I still use the syryana guide to fferyposting. Need a link bro?

Yes

[BROseidon]

VOTE: geists

That's not the answer I'd expect from town-ffery.

[BROseidon]

In all fairness, MC is obvtown.

pedit: It's not a model thing, it's an "I'd expect you to have noticed something" read.

[BROseidon]

I also like how GiF moved his hydra's vote off of the obvtown.

pedit: That'd be pretty derp.

pedit2: Don't you "dude" me

pedit3: Ceph, don't believe in yourself, believe in me who believes in you.

[BROseidon]

Bro let's just move on and wagon the scum, mmkay?

Sounds like a plan.

[BROseidon]

I figured if you did and were town, that GiF would fix it immediately

[BROseidon]

Orc still owes me that nom, ftr.

And yeah, let's in-thread mason the shit out of this.

[BROseidon]

btw you should look for a backup in case I die.

[BROseidon]

Xenoblade

I'd laugh at you for trying to read that game; but we share a fellow pain of sorts.

lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

[BROseidon]

UNVOTE: geists

[BROseidon]

I did see them telegraphing it but something was off about the way ffery didn't spend time sorting you out so I wanted to probe further.

ffery not having to sort MC this game is not alignment indicative.

[BROseidon]

If you didn't do what I think you did I'm going to be incredibly disappointed :/

[BROseidon]

If you didn't do what I think you did I'm going to be incredibly disappointed :/

Guess that depends on what you were thinking?

I got something that indicates that your name might as well be green in the OP.

[BROseidon]

If you didn't do what I think you did I'm going to be incredibly disappointed :/

Guess that depends on what you were thinking?

I got something that indicates that your name might as well be green in the OP.

Well I'm town so that counts!

Not sure if confirmation of what I suspect or...

[BROseidon]

I wonder if my rants will be as effective with that seal face staring out at everyone.

No, but it also makes me not want to lynch you because OMG SO CUTE.

It's almost as cute as the avatar on the me/penguin hydra.

[BROseidon]

Also I'm lost right now beyond masoning* with MC and townreading generic.

I'm bad at larges :/

*we're not actually masons.

[BROseidon]

BROseidon, who are you feeling the least happy with so far. Not gonna expect full scum reads at this stage Roth do many having yet to put any pertinent input into this, but who is beeping on the radar at least in your eyes?

I'll get back to you after reading these ten pages.

You're scum doing this with only your best intentions in mind. It's anti-town. You need rope, but I'm already voting my other scum-read.

How is it antitown? The plan essentially gives him three days freedom as scum. This freedom is also time that I'm left alive to rampage all over the scumteam in typical Nacho fashion when he could instead just dodge me for a day and kill me in a night. He has also demonstrated the capacity to read me pretty fucking well based on the past few times we've played together, so it makes sense he would want to buy extra time to figure me out (considering he tends to be a kill priority for scum-Nacho).

If he's scum, why would you expect him to follow through on this?

Just to let everyone know this game is a town win.

I was hoping you drew scum

Why would you want a scumwin?

Thor liked MC's opening but it wasn't actually that great.

Nacho: answer me this:

Which of the following is true:

1) You're scum.
2) I'm crazy.
3) Both

Yes? Cabd forming a town block with himself in the center early game doesn't exactly seem like something that's unlikely to be coming from Cabd-scum. Why do you disagree?

:/

1. Ffery. Let's make the same deal that F-16 and I made, minus the suspecting part.

These deals are just really, really odd.

It's three of the stronger slots in the game trying to posture around each other for... reasons...

Only real town motivation I can see behind it is to prevent paranoia from ripping the town apart at the seams, which can happen very easily in a game like this.

I still think BRO deserves caution, but his "meh I fucking suck at large games" seemed a lot more honest than any BROscum play that I've seen. It's more about what he's not doing than what he is doing!

I don't like how you're hiding behind a single comment to justify reading me, then throwing out some high-level "What he's not doing indicates he's town" reasoning without substantiating what those markers are. It makes it look like you're setting up for a potential "gotcha" moment on me that people'll trust because of your authority/experience with me.

improvements in her play lately that suggest her town game is getting more obvtown early.

Evidence?

Firstly, Nacho in Buzzword went up against Orc because your slot (squared) did. He immediately dropped suspicion on Orc once he returned from a brief period of inactivity – the scum motivation clearly being he didn’t want to go against you. Here on the other hand, you indicated that Brian suspicion is unjustified – or at least, that is the implicit vibe I received from you. Tammy opposed the push as well. Assuming she is town, Nacho as scum would be pushing a player that could alienate his biggest threats – this is something I haven’t seen a parallel with in Buzzword. Let’s say he wants to push the Brian lynch, who will help him? Not you, Tammy, or even Cephrir who despite saying that Brian was trying too hard now has a townread on him. Probably not Pitoli who he is voting. Perhaps he expected me to help but I made it clear I am not sure either way about Brian. So, I am not seeing the same parallel w.r.t Brian and Orc. What did I miss?

This is how you make an argument, people.

Tammy’s town, don’t want to substantiate why because ~reasons~

Although I don’t get where these pitoli reads are coming from because by page 18 I’ve forgotten that she’s even posted. I guess that’s implicitly bad, but still…

How about we just lynch you now and get the game over with?

That would bring the “BRO getting mislynched” statistic in conflict with the “BRO always wins with Nacho” statistic. It’s better to let scum NK me, because then I’m conftown AND the “BRO almost always wins when not mislynched” stat comes into play.


^_^

Stopped quoting shit because MS hates me, but I’m hard townreading Tammy after the fight. Also townreading Brian, but not as strongly.

Gut-feeling off about Ceph, but I’m gonna table that for a bit. Also disconcerted by the lack of presence from a handful of players (gutbunny, Desp, Sak, Domo, GM, pit). Other than that…

VOTE: Casso

We have a date, Nacho. I apologize for not being super-available for the next 24 hours.

[BROseidon]

I don't get it. Do you agree with it? Your vote doesn't make sense based on this statement.

The point I was making is that you use specific evidence to back up a claim; a lot of people on this site have a hard time with that, and it pisses me off.

My dance with Nacho has nothing to do with your argument, though. It's something else that I'm looking at.

[BROseidon]

Looks like BROseidon misinterpreted it too since he believes casso is scum.

I see why you got that impression, but I more just ignored his argument because of what I stated above.

I also expect Nacho to be a strong enough player that a meta argument built around a single game is insufficient to demonstrate anything.

[BROseidon]

I have 16 pages to catch up on :/

Should I catch up on them straight, or just play, reading back for stuff as it becomes necessary?

[BROseidon]

i'm in favor of not reading what i missed at this time

I'm doing this.

If anything important happened b/w my early-ish post and 986 that changes how I should be reading things, let me know.

[BROseidon]

Hi muffin. You're scum again aren't you?

Is muffin more of a guilty child than me at this point? I'm sort of curious...

[BROseidon]

Explained above!

Can you quote it for me? I'm too lazy to dig through your ISO for it.

[BROseidon]

Wait nm I realized that it's in the same post and that I just skipped it in reading the stuff to me first :/

[BROseidon]

You're closer to naive than crazy.

This implies that you picked up on the same thing that I did and think it's fake.

Why would scum-cabd open the way he did. There's enough of us here that more than one or two of us would catch what he did, so if he's scum faking it would be glaringly obvious later.

[BROseidon]

What impresses me about your scumplay is that you always manage to find something to do early on and generally don't have slow starts. Large Normal? Nope. Touhou? Nope. Xeno1? Nope. Here, you begin with a strong townread and then go "welp, I have no idea what's what" which seemed genuine because I know you have no problem faking those things as scum.

Now I need to have a scumgame where I fake confusion at the start...

Fuck that's gonna be hard...

[BROseidon]

I don't like the BBQ wagon. I don't like Nacho. We're 40 pages in and he doesn't know who he wants to push instead.

Do you think scumCho could fake the read-trajectory he took on me?

[BROseidon]

In all the back-and-forth's I think Roflcopter is slipping through the gaps. I find him scummy. It boils down to the fact that Rofl is much more involved and passionate about the game as town than as scum. Information through lots of posts is good and pro-town. It is a natural scum-move to feign tiredness and groan at the massive amount of content that was generated. This especially holds true for players like Rofl who strongly prefer playing town to scum. There are a few others that are doing this but Rofl sticks out. I'll get back to this after reviewing Rofl's meta when I find a block of time.

Dude there's a difference between "a lot of activity that's good for town" and "so much activity that shit gets lost in the mass."

This game is moving towards the latter.

[BROseidon]

Hi muffin. You're scum again aren't you?

Is muffin more of a guilty child than me at this point? I'm sort of curious...

You two can duke it out for the title.

That would've required me to have rolled scum this game :/

[BROseidon]

UNVOTE: Casso

[BROseidon]

@BRO: I think you're scum. Prove that you're not.

The only "prove" in this game comes in the form of dead people.

Or ICs.

I guess this is normal so masons with a partner dead also count.

[BROseidon]

cephrir, listing koreanbbq as a scumread while jumping on every koreanbbq counterwagon since 2013

brought to you by outsized overreactions to being labeled as bbq's scumbuddy

What do you think of bbq/ceph/DOMO as scummates?

[BROseidon]

VOTE: DOMO

Gonna do some rereading of 165 to figure out what's driving the gutread here.

[BROseidon]

Holy shit you rolled scum didn't you?

[BROseidon]

care to give me your thoughts on DOMO?

why not hop on the SC wagon?

...It's like you didn't even read my post.

I looked at the sequence of posts after when I said "fuck it I'm not reading 16 pages of catchup" and weighed two possible narratives, going with the one I thought was more plausible.

[BROseidon]

I can't be scum though, I didn't do a bullshit list of reads when I joined up late.

Wow.

Such logic.

So stronk.

Such relevance to what I think my gut was honing in on.

[BROseidon]

Hey yeah. Bro are you ignoring meta entirely? This Domo doesn't seem the same to me at all...

I'm gutreading it as close to early 165. I need to go back and refresh my memory to see if what parallel's I'm feeling or if I'm just crazy.

Oh wait, I'm crazy regardless ^_^

pedit: That post, no.

[BROseidon]

I saw you voted him and I wanna know if we're thinking the same thing about him. 0.0

But you somehow missed the part where I said, "This is a gut read, I'm going to go look at stuff later to figure out what my gut's picking up on?"

[BROseidon]

Hey Rev, you can stop asking me why I'm reading you the way I am because the answer right now is, "gut."

I need a nice cup of hot cocoa and a decent block of time to parse through early-mid day 1 165, this game, and Xenoblade to figure out why my gut went off.

Then you'll have your answer.

[BROseidon]

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.

I wanna talk about this.

[BROseidon]

My problem is that most of the town looking players are very good players (Cephrir, Pieguyn, Giests). I wouldn't put it past any of them to be capable of getting me to townread them as scum so I am not as complacent as I would be if I had townreads on players of average skill.

...give me a scumteam that you don't feel would be capable of all slipping by you given this playerlist...

[BROseidon]

9. Stuffed Crust (Mac + Varsoon) - Half of varsoon's shit has pinged me, I dunno.

I wanna talk about this.

I'm around.

Solid, just got out of my LoL game.

I find Varsoon to be disturbingly agreeable.

[BROseidon]

I don't follow

[BROseidon]

Does your meta binder have instances of town Varsoon being that agreeable?

[BROseidon]

Ugh that's 2 games I need to look at now.

[BROseidon]

-I am picking up on less crumbs than I normally would because iPad. I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

...an iPad makes you worse at reading?

dafuq?

[BROseidon]

I also don't think that's a scumtell for me.

Nice scumclaim. Don't think? You should KNOW if you're town.

Yeah I feel really good about this lynch now.

...oh fuck no not this again.

Why are semantics so hard.

[BROseidon]

I didn't react to any of it because I didn't notice it. I picked up on some of the waves crashing on shore but missed the ripples, meaning that the majority of my reactions are questions, which are the types of things I would rather keep to myself.

...

Why do I not believe this.

[BROseidon]

I'm not sure how many people caught it aside from me.

Probably even fewer people saw me fakeclaiming back ^_^

[BROseidon]

Anyone from Xenogears who didn't catch it deserves scrutiny, though.

[BROseidon]

Something is significantly wrong with you if you're still thinking I'm scum after this.

Eh, I'll probably paranoia around day 4-5.

When I feigned suspicion on you/ffery for crumbing unrequited lover, I was being serious that there are very few things you could pull that would completely stun me at this point.

[BROseidon]

Anyone from Xenogears who didn't catch it deserves scrutiny, though.

Why do you expect town to "catch it?" From experience, I find town are a lot more oblivious to PR claims although it depends on the player.

49 was pretty explicit

[BROseidon]

@Mc Maracaracaracrara: Eeeeh, what'd you and BRO think is weird about me, again? I'm Varsoon, I don't really need to justify myself beyond that. Also, I never believe anyone's claim/crumb until they can prove it.

...Cabd and I had a mini convo about it.

ISO me

[BROseidon]

Anyone from Xenogears who didn't catch it deserves scrutiny, though.

Why do you expect town to "catch it?" From experience, I find town are a lot more oblivious to PR claims although it depends on the player.

49 was pretty explicit

I think I am missing something. Why wouldn't scum who played the gears game catch the same thing?

If I were scum reading that, I would try to ignore it as much as possible, townread the two people masoning for other reasons, then shoot it at night in the midgame before they're revealed. Especially since they might have also picked up that I crumbed mason-bodyguard, not just mason, so they'd assume I might die protecting a target anyways.

That's the point; anyone who didn't phone in on it seems like they were trying to ignore it b/c it was fairly explicit.

[BROseidon]

And why would the optimal response from town who caught the crumb be any different? Wouldn't they also townread the two players for other reasons and leave it be? It is suboptimal to say anything about the crumb. What exactly do you mean "phone in on it?"

Respond the way ffery did, which is to acknowledge it subtly enough that the message would slip through only to me/Cabd/other townies in the know.

You're talking to the guy who used a cross-game reference to slip a large amount of information about an incredibly relevant setup issue to one person in a 19 person game. There are ways of doing this sort of thing in a way that's obfuscated enough that most people won't pick up on it.

[BROseidon]

Why is everyone voting this

I just

Don't

Understand

I'm still voting on a gut read that I still haven't gone back to parse.

Everyone else is voting based on reactions from my push.

[BROseidon]

don't like any of the top three wagons.

roflcopter,

pitoli

and Brian are all three better votes than those three.

Has pitoli posted anything?

I only remember that she's in the game because there's this push on her for some reason that I can't understand because I don't remember her as having posted anything.

[BROseidon]

Mafia is srs bsns in a player list like this. Step up or go home, son.

You know it's a srs bsns player list when I'm not calling everyone morons every other post.

[BROseidon]

EBWOP:
Add Sakura to the people I'm suspicious of.
If I had to make a scum-pool now, though?

Pieguyn,
Sakura,
Desperado,
Casso.

Feels right to me.

Vote: Stuffed Crust

what happened to you being sure that one of Korean/SSK was scum Varsoon?

you know who likes to create arbitrary dichotomies? scum.

what's weird about my voting pattern?

and you saying this reeks of scum-desp is seriously the fucking dumbest thing you have ever said. justify it

Desp did you role scum?

[BROseidon]

nope

Then why are you using the same argument against Varsoon that scum-you used against me in Xenogears?

pedit: not really, I play day 1 predominantly by small-scale associative tells to try to build out the larger game narrative.

pedit2: that's because you're forced to respond in the pro-town way to avoid looking scummy. It's like how I can't question day 1 miller/pgo/hated/etc claims until at least day 2-3 because if I do it day 1 then I'm obviously scum.

[BROseidon]

woohoo am now fully caught up, just in time to board my plane!

[BROseidon]

@Mod V/LA through monday

[BROseidon]

I'm not catching up on this much shit.

Someone tell me the important shit to look at so I can skip the fluff.

[BROseidon]

Someone answer my question about what the relevant content for me to read over the past 30ish pages is.

[BROseidon]

You should probably ask someone like someone like Tammy who has a 100% accuracy rate in reading me. On the plus side, I can say in endgame that I can read you but you can't read me.

I want to see if Tammy responds to this...

^ This is junk. Yeah, I was waiting to see if other people would support the vote before I voted you. It isn't scummy, it is null. Town test to see whether a lynch is viable and so does scum. It isn't alignment indicative.

What is the town motivation in backing off a push b/c it's unpopular?

Well, you are in luck because I am town. But I don't know who the scum are.

If F-16 is scum this might be multiball. The phrasing here is weird and points to that.

Okay, Tammy is obvtown. Pieguyn is town. Stuffed are town (I think). Not sure about Arthur but Tammy reads him as town so I am not too worried. MC was annoying and I scumnread them for a while but I really don't have a read on them now that I think about it. Geists are town but don't sheep ffery because she is wrong about me. Nacho and I made a peace treaty to not nightkill each other if one of us is scum. I don't have a proper read on his and Thor's hydra. Brian is acting much like he did in Mentor and Mentee. DOMO looks town. KBBQ are also annoying and not engaging although I don't think it is alignment indicative. They pretty much scumread Stuffed and assume that if they were wrong, I would be scum for townreading them aka "whiteknighting." Cephrir looks town. I don't like the muffin wagon either.

Re this and your previous post: Why only who's town? Why not talk about scumreads?

also is it just me or is Broseidon's ISO pretty underwhelming...it's almost like Empire lurking as scum or something and doing as little as possible

Combination of V/LA last weekend, and the rate at which this game is moving relative to other games (I tend to post more in games where I'm caught up, and let games where I'm behind get further behind).

Haven't full ISO'd muffin, but his posting from my catchup point looks town.

Who is pick for a scumteam?

stuffed crust, maraca, geists, domo, dayne

I feel like Cephrir makes a lot of sense with DOMO-scum, although I guess it could just be him getting hard-duped into moving in lockstep with the scumteam again...

it isn't a bus until one of them is dead

DOMO tried to bus his entire scumteam sans Cabd in NY165 from early day 1.

Fuck it Desp's town and less lost than I am right now. Sheeping Desp time.

Hey Desp who do I vote?

[BROseidon]

@F16: You liar tell when stating that you're town but then don't liar tell that you don't know who scum are.

@Desp: What's the MC case? I've been townreading them all game and I get back to a bunch of "MC is scum" posts.

VOTE: MC

[BROseidon]

@F16: You liar tell when stating that you're town but then don't liar tell that you don't know who scum are.

What's a liar tell?

Language use that's indicative of lying.

[BROseidon]

Current lurkers: SSK, BRO, GM, Sakura, Brian, and until the last day or so, you. BRO lurking as town is not unusual. SSK is pro at lurking whatever his alignment. I want to know what Nati's currently thinking about him.

Of those 6, the two I most worry about are Sakura and Brian right now.

Interesting lack of GM in your analysis of the lurkgroup.

[BROseidon]

Town: Desp, Bert, Muffin, Tammy

Scum: DOMO, Ceph, MC?, geists?, Casso?, SAD?

[BROseidon]

I'm having a hard time putting the pieces together this game.

The fact that the game is moving super fast and is a lot of inane back and forth isn't helping.

[BROseidon]

Town: Desp, Bert, Muffin, Tammy

Scum: DOMO, Ceph, MC?, geists?, Casso?, SAD?

Why do you have Desp and Muffin in your townpile?

Where is GM? Where is Sakura? Where is SC? Where is BBQ?

I'm like 50% gutreading 50% sheeping Desp right now.

SC I'm still torn about b/c last time I saw Vars-scum I misread it horribly.

BBQ I haven't read the vast majority of their posts b/c those posts are in the like 45 pages that I've skipped.

[BROseidon]

I'd also settle with knowing how he went from obvtowning me for my gambit to voting me without even fully catching up merely because desperado thinks I'm scum.

Vote on DOMO wasn't doing anything, something needs to happen b/c this game is going nowhere fast.

So I sheeped a townread that I know gets good scumreads faster than I do.

[BROseidon]

Who's muffin hardbussing?

[BROseidon]

Every experience I've had with scum-muffin has involved him very aggressively going after one or more of his scum mates early. Here he just sits around lost for a while before launching a not very aggressive push.

[BROseidon]

Baezu and Amrun

[BROseidon]

I'm also a lil' worried about Pie 'cause he seems like he's on every major wagon.

Why is this indicative of scum-pie?

[BROseidon]

Hi!

I'm drunk...I have five minutes, and you know what I think?

Let's lynch mc Maraca.

Because holy fucking shit not only are they fake as shit, but they have 340 posts. On day one. They are drowning out the game in noise.

So everyone should join me on the protwn, let's do shit for town and let's get rid of bloating the game scum wagon.

EVERYONE WITH ME!!!!!!!

I don't really like using post count as a gauge for scumminess.

Like, the AP/me hydra backends games faster than they move when we're at full force, so we end up with like 30-50% more posts than anyone else+another like 60% in our QT.

[BROseidon]

@mod can we get an extension deadline to compensate for the site being down. Again

[BROseidon]

I can elaborate if you want

Yes

[BROseidon]

I don't know what a scumpie looks like, do you?

Though vote hoping like that is just scummy/crappy play. I mean, wouldn't you be worried if I were vote hopping like that?

The issue I have with this logic is that aggressive bandwagoning isn't intrinsically scum; when I was newer I was super jumpy as town, and can still be a jumpy player as either alignment. The quality of how the wagoning is being executed is the more relevant information, and you don't bring that part up.

and I haven't seen scum-pie either

[BROseidon]

11. BROseidon - Less coasting, but I'm a little concerned about the lack of parallel thought that we usually have when we're both town.

You mean like in Xenogears?

[BROseidon]

3. Casso the King of Seals (Nachomamma8 + Thor665)
4. MC Maraca (Cabd + Ms Marangal)
10. pieguyn SonOfZeus
16. Ser Arthur Dayne
18. DOMO

The lack of Ceph in this list is disconcerting.

Also the postings prior to this feel super hedged from you :/

[BROseidon]

I think I've also played in a game with BROseidon but he is null in this one to me.

We were in Red Wedding together but I replaced out and Cabd took over my slot.

[BROseidon]

Hi!

Guess what. I'm back and about to piss off a few people~

Mara's cool with it so whatever.

I wifomed the mason retract but

I am seriously a mason

. (Yes tammy you get to fucking get over yourself) No, not with broseidon. Who I'm partnered with should be obvious but we're not talking about it in any way shape or form today.

The real main reason I'm claiming is this, though.

We have daychat

This means scum has daychat too, most likely not as a part of a role, but merely granted by the setup mechanics. (I just checked, you don't have to have an encyptor to allow daychat in normal games) I decided my lifespan shortening a day or two is worth the info this grants; because hey, I'm pretty shit for reads this game anyways.

k

UNVOTE: MC

[BROseidon]

I think I've also played in a game with BROseidon but he is null in this one to me.

We were in Red Wedding together but I replaced out and Cabd took over my slot.

No I didn't. I replaced killa apple.

Okay then I forget who replaced me.

Oh wait I don't remember his name but he got mislynched pretty late or something

[BROseidon]

I am not sold you are town. Still null at this point. You could be an actual Mason. You could be a VT fake-claiming Mason. Or you could be scum fake-claiming Mason. Regardless, Mara made a dumb move earlier in the game. If you were competent town, I'd expect you to own up to it and back off. You didn't. You continued acting as if you were in the right and OMGUSing me. That makes you (Mara) either scum or incompetent town. I am not sure which. That's why you are in my annoyance pile. Only incompetent townies tunnel mindlessly. I backed off of voting you several pages ago so if you are actually town and this ends up being TvT, it is not my fault and you better not blame me at endgame, just saying that now.

Dunno what you're going on about but I do know this post rubs me the wrong way.

It rubs me hugely the wrong way too. Getting mastin/katsuki vibes from Anything Goes from this post.

Would like Tammy's input on that, actually.

pedit: I'm pretty sure that my stance on certain claims is pretty well recorded. Day 1 mason claim doesn't get lynched on day 1. Ever.

Theory-driven play is fun!

[BROseidon]

I actually want to have the other mason out to believe the claim. No, I don't care about keeping them hidden, you're the main wagon right now and I'm hesitant to believe the claim.

No.

Second mason claims round before expected LyLo.

[BROseidon]

And I really want/need to know why ffery chose to hide behind you for this talk. Does she now consider herself weak to my gambits or some shit like that?

10/10 would ask.

[BROseidon]

She'll probably spend the rest of the day ranting at me and mara about how horrible of players we are, so you might be better off bolding that and super sizing it.

I'll do it if she skips it. She already thinks I'm a huge dick from the Anything Goes BS. No need to fan the flames there.

[BROseidon]

F-16: If you think i'd fakeclaim mason at this stage in the game as town, you are showing that you have clearly not ACTUALLY meta-checked the kind of gambits I pull; or you're choosing to ignore that for your own agendas. I take risks, but not the kind that might out a real set of masons were I to be VT.

I think the lack off cc to your original fake-claim would tell you that there aren't real masons which makes it an amazing fake-claim as scum or VT. Out your partner.

You've been on site for more than twice as long as I have.

So why don't you understand a simple textbook play?

[BROseidon]

I was going to make a scumteam A and a scumteam B

Why?

Was this a Nero or Gif post?

[BROseidon]

Even if you think it's a fakeclaim you still run with the textbook play.

[BROseidon]

11. BROseidon - Less coasting, but I'm a little concerned about the lack of parallel thought that we

usually

have when we're both town.

You mean like in Xenogears?

key word bolded.

Hence "maybe town" rather than "not very town".

Fair enough.

[BROseidon]

If it were GiF I'd be having a conversation with him about that post.

[BROseidon]

Bert down, MC up, you up, F-16 down.

Imply a null category in the middle.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: F-16

[BROseidon]

But what's more disconcerting is the AMOUNT of naked votes suddenly moving over to him with no noticeable indication from these people they were swayin that way.

Would you define my vote as a naked vote?

[BROseidon]

V/LA til after Christmas.

So glad you allow players like GOodmorning to coast like this. Have you isoed her posts? Since the self aware hand waving of being called suspicious for doing nothing she has fluff posted and prod doded her way along.

Had there not been a potential mason link thrown out I would put more energy into this, but just wanted to say those of you auto clearing her on this behaviour disgust me. That's not mafia, that's making up the numbers.

Sakura hana is almost the same, except she is now in focus so I expect to see something from her.

Scumlurk vs. townlurk.

Townlurk is bad, but ultimately comes from town.

GM's lurk looks like townlurk right now.

[BROseidon]

Bert, why did you vote for someone based on gut when there are some who have ligitimately bothered you?

wtf is this question?

[BROseidon]

Ok so MC Maraca, BROseidon, Ser Arthur Dayne, why are they voting F-16?

A lot of F-16's interactions with Cabd/Mara rub me the wrong way. He's super trying to discredit them for bad reasons. It's like what I tried to do with Bauss in 167 with a lot less caps.

pedit: null to null/town range, but fuck if I can read either head effectively.

[BROseidon]

Please do explain how her posts are townlurking?

Lack of precision/agenda/intentionality.

Lack of caring about how it'll be perceived.

Scum lurks are typically far more precise in their nature b/c they come from a place of not wanting to get noticed. Town lurks happen for other reasons and are typically far less molded.

[BROseidon]

wtf is up with the activity this game and why are we wagoning Sak?

[BROseidon]

wtf is up with the activity this game and why are we wagoning Sak?

Because apparently "she's scum" is a good reason to lynch someone.

If you flip town I'll be all over it like white on rice.

[BROseidon]

are all acceptable lynches. As an added bonus there's likely scum in that group.

Why is that an added bonus and not a given?

[BROseidon]

You guys do realize the MafiaSSK wagon literally gives 0 percent of actual helpful information right?

I never found this argument compelling.
He has a better chance of being scum than anyone we were wagonning before, and he has a higher likelihood of being lynched than the other players who might be scum. He's also a player who is not likely to obvtown unless roles, and thus makes a decent lynch.

So this is at least partially policy/utility then...

[BROseidon]

Note to self: through 145.

[BROseidon]

I've like, super power skimmed most of what I'm behind on.

If SSK is around for too long, I'm PLing that shit. I'll leave "too long" ambiguous for now. Only concern I have is that he's a strong scum PR gambiting to stay alive as long as possible.

Also, if anyone expects me to remotely keep up with this spamfest while I'm V/LA, they can go eat some durian. Or something.

[BROseidon]

Bro: Not playing the way I've seen him play scum, and when he does bother to grace us with his presence I like him.

My apologies for having a normal post count in this spamfest of a game.

[BROseidon]

A few points:

1) You fuckers need to slow the fuck down. I have ~120 posts by early day 2 and that's considered lurking.

2) Ceph/DOMO spat is weird as, especially given their day 1 interactions that looked like potential buddies. Could be some sort of a distancing play? Someone who's not on vacation should probably look at that.

3) Has Norlkaz done anything this game?

I'm off to the beach. Cheers!

[BROseidon]

I think that the Bert has a certain something that he never really came close to having in BRO-game

I think it's his caring.

He was super-apathetic in my game.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: SSK

I doubt there's both a towndoc and scumdoc, and gunsmith+vig heavily implies scumdoc.

[BROseidon]

No I have a cop guilty on geists.

Rev you're doing it wrong

[BROseidon]

In all seriousness though I've never seen duplicate roles in a game.

Not counting masons and vanilla.

[BROseidon]

Works for me.

UNVOTE:

[BROseidon]

Hey guys I just realized that SSK could be another scum fake-claiming his buddy's doc because he knows that there probably isn't a real doc in the game (and thus they'd be trying to bait out a JK/BG, since we probably do have one of those).

Discuss.

[BROseidon]

And if you're scum doc, I might do something terrible to an innocent kitten in anger. If you're scum doc, just claim now. Think of the kittens.

In all fairness scum should have just scooped at the start of the game b/c I rolled town.

[BROseidon]

Anyways, ive been deliberately not reading because after FEA and Marketplace my patience for huge fast moving games is at an all-time low. That said, I find Gunsmith not suspect in the least. I had a strong feeling this game would be influenced by the MTGS crossover game which had a similar setup(doc+vig+gunsmith vs Jailor+2 goons). So, I dunno. Working through this.

You should probably swap doc and gunsmith alignments.

Scum have a doc this game, 100%, which then implies a non-doc town PR (JK being more common than BG)

I'm thinking setup looks something like:

Gunsmith
Mason
Mason
JK (BG)
JOAT
Vig
Maybe town BP if the designer/reviewer understand that Vig is an anti-town role, but probably not b/c people are generally under the impression that Vig is a pro-town role because it allows town to do things at night.

Vs.
Goon
Goon/Traitor
Goon/x-shot Strongman
Doc
RB

[BROseidon]

i kinda agree with him that the stuffed crust wagon is difficult to analyse because of the way it happened, so i don't have a problem with the fact he hasn't put much effort into analysing it

You and SAD both ignoring the buildup on the SC wagon is strange. Yes, the flash wagon at the end is hard to analyze, but you have the entire day leading up to it where SC was constantly under pressure to look at.

[BROseidon]

Hey everyone in marketplace quick question:

Did muffin aggressively bus one or more of his scum mates there early?

[BROseidon]

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat

Tammy being dead means I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who reads Latin.

[BROseidon]

Kinda. Nacho bussed Doctor Pepper, who was on Muffins team.

That completely doesn't answer my question. Like, at all.

[BROseidon]

Then I don't know what you want. You wanted a black ad white answer, but the truth isn't black and white.

Scum team 1 was Empcho/Muffin/DP.

Empcho got a wagon rolling on DP . So IMO, Muffin didn't bus.

So, if I said that Muffin bussed DP then that wouldn't be factually true 'cause Empcho had more to do with the bussin' of DP then he did. If I said that Muffin didn't bus then that's not factually true either 'cause DP was on Muffin's team and DID get bussed by his team.

I also don't remember if he was on or off the DP wagon and if he said anything to Empcho about maybe not bussing DP.

This answers my question.

[BROseidon]

@Norlkaz:

why am I scum? also, who is scum on the assumption that I'm town?

you're aware that by forming a scumteam based entirely off me everything gets fked up if I'm town right? mb it's just me but that way of forming reads often leads to confbias and large potential for error if your initial assumptions (me-scum) are wrong. why would you take that kind of approach in forming your reads? like I can't see why you'd do that given how prone to error it is 0.0

Cabd/ffery/GiF/Nacho/Desp?

How does this compare to how people responded to me in Xenogears for primarily pushing associative cases off of Mala?

[BROseidon]

Hey guys, I apologize for the lack of activity. I'm back from vacation now, and I should be getting to this game tomorrow. Catching up make me just not want to post :/

[BROseidon]

His doctor claim has gone uncountered. I find it unlikely we have no protective role.
Doctor is valuable here because we have a lot of other roles claimed AND we're on evens with our vig dead.
The high likelihood scum will shoot him if we leave him alone is a factor as well.

Why the fuck would another protective role claim when SSK is relatively useless to scum at this point and will get auto-sorted eventually.

And yeah I haven't caught up yet. Hadn't played LoL in a while and my LP had decayed to -7, so I had to go stomp some newbs as Leona.

[BROseidon]

@Norlkaz:

why am I scum? also, who is scum on the assumption that I'm town?

you're aware that by forming a scumteam based entirely off me everything gets fked up if I'm town right? mb it's just me but that way of forming reads often leads to confbias and large potential for error if your initial assumptions (me-scum) are wrong. why would you take that kind of approach in forming your reads? like I can't see why you'd do that given how prone to error it is 0.0

Cabd/ffery/GiF/Nacho/Desp?

How does this compare to how people responded to me in Xenogears for primarily pushing associative cases off of Mala?

You're making my head hurt.

What day of Xenogears are you talking about and who are you asking about it?

Days 2-5.

Desp sticks out for attacking me for using that sort of associative tell argument against him/muffin/someone else maybe Aj?, but I remember other people doing it as well after I posted my massive catchup at the start of day 2 (mollie maybe did? I don't want to go reread it b/c the me/mollie fight was incredibly frustrating and stupid and I'd rather not relive that)

[BROseidon]

No. The push on Nero Cain became a bus eventually, but when DrPepper was lynched the push to bus was mostly pushed by me and he followed along because DrPepper was getting lynched with or without him.

ftr this drops my muffin town read into a null to null-scum read then.

The initial town read was based on him usually hard-bussing his scum mates as scum, since he'd done that in every scum game of his that I'd seen. That said, if he has a recent pattern of not doing that, then that's less valid, and the apathy could easily be coming from the place of muffin liking town more than scum.

[BROseidon]

yeah, well i happen to have a very rare affliction that i'm pretty sure nobody else in this game suffers from, and i'm actually rather sensitive about it *sob* *sob*. the truth is... i'm australian

lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Australia's awesome, though. I'd totally move to Sydney or Melbourne (or possibly other cities but those are the only 2 I've been to)

[BROseidon]

I was already dead, so I probably didn't follow that stuff closely enough. Mala was lynched on day..3? I forget who was lynched day 2. Nick maybe. Is this how you remember Mala defending against your associative arguments?

Anyway, was the pushback about associative tells because mala hadn't flipped at the time? Anyway, I don't think what pieguyn is doing is an attack so much as a defense. It's further than I would push back, though. I'd probably just ask something like "what would me flipping town do to your reads?" Or "pretend I'm town. Which of those reads is still valid?"

Yeah, Mala was lynched on day 3, but there were a fair number of people scum reading her (she would have been lynched day 2 if Majiffy had let mollie push the way she wanted to instead of on to nick, or if me/other townies had just said no to mollie/jiffy and pushed Mala through anyways). Still, a lot of people didn't like that I was working primarily through associative tells to try to discern scum, instead of gunning for the scummiest individual players, and a fair number of people attacked me for doing it.

Rest of your post is something of a decent answer.

[BROseidon]

3736 is mind boggingly dumb. Like how in the world would it be a given that there were scum in my list of day 1 acceptable lynches unless Bro is scum and knew there were scum in said list lynch. Someone tell me why town would ask that?

4197 is, I think, a scumtell, since its putting pressure on any multiple claim and is like a lie 'cause he HAS played in a game with multiple docs.

Wow, you're pushing those posts late...

1) I'm saying why would you consider it an added bonus instead of something you'd hope you'd be right about? The way you phrased it implied that the driving force behind those lynches

wasn't

that you thought those people were scum, but rather other reasons.

2) I've been in a game with multiple docs?

[BROseidon]

I still haven't gotten to the SSK wagon in my catchup, but it's possible.

But I'm also going into that highly doubting that he's town.

Has anyone mentioned the possibility of scum bussing?

[BROseidon]

Cabd claimed masons with you, called you town for ~vague meta reasons~ for a while, then retracted the fake claim, then reiterated the claim. It's pretty clear you two are masons together unless you're not actually masons together, in which case you should probably say something.

Why the fuck would you say this.

If he's not the other mason, the town play would be to pretend to be the other mason until the round before expected LyLo, when the real mason would come forward.

[BROseidon]

OK in all seriousness, yes Nacho's walls do remind me of his wall on Brian Skies's meta which Falcon called out in Mentor/Mentee 254. Nacho isn't usually this verbose? He's talking out of his you-know-where maybe, but I won't interrupt his walls while he is in his charming world of charming people. CRAZY THEORY: He knows this is the Nacho we all want to say, and so he is overdoing that aspect of his ID.

They remind me of this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5175588

We were both up all night working on our walls for that game.

Didn't you/Nacho also do that in 167?

[BROseidon]

When I played with her, her scum game was kinda crap and whenever she showed that kind of emotion meant she's town. However, I haven't played with her in at least 6 months, likely closer to a year. People change their playstyles, and she could've easily developed the ability to fake that kind of rage as scum *shrug*

She was recently scum in Anything Goes and she tried really hard to fake frustration at me/AP for scum reading her/the rest of her scum team. It felt very fake.

Her emotion here felt very real.

[BROseidon]

I'll do what ffery won't.

VOTE: SSK

Why aren't we lynching him?

[BROseidon]

If SSK somehow flips town this wagon needs a good look at. Those townies who are voting for him, it's premature ejaculation, pure and simple. The only reason I can think of to lynch him today is in case he's actually scum RB'er faking doc, but no-one is arguing this, and more to the point, he's not fighting his lynch in a manner that makes me think he's important to scum. If he's scum, then good chance he's being bussed to take heat off other scum. And if he's town, this is a fistpump lynch for scum.

I do not like this lynch.

So much of this.

[BROseidon]

Also,

VOTE: Casso

Subject to change based on the rest of my catchup.

[BROseidon]

I've played SSK before. He's naturally scummy. I think he is scum here, but he could just be the world's scummiest townie and actually a fucking doc. So please let's not kill him, because doing so is PREMATURE EJACULATION at best, and a horrible mistake at worst.

I think it's more likely that he's town fake claiming doc than it is that he's actually a town doc.

These are both less likely than him being scum, though.

[BROseidon]

He is a claimed doc that didn't die in the night... Only me and koreanBBQ pushed this to my knowledge so why would scum leave a town doc alive and NOT toss the suspicion about? Makes no sense and several scum suspects of others actually defended him.

Eh? I definitely soft-pushed it.

[BROseidon]

MafiaSSK (8)

-

zMuffinMan, geists, Desperado, Casso the King of Seals, Sakura Hana, Bert, Generic, Cephrir

If SSK is scum, I expect 2 on this wagon.

If he's town, I expect 3.

Certainty is +/- 1, which I guess makes this fairly imprecise :/

[BROseidon]

I believe that if there is a gunsmith and a doctor in this game, then scum will have some method of countering it that's better than a mafia doctor (likely a roleblocker). If scum have a roleblocker, then they will probably block SSK-town and kill you (pretty much the same actions they would take if SSK-scum). This means that leaving him alive will do nothing for the town since he's likely to be lynched anyways and won't be able to use his night action. I would be all for leaving him alive if he showed some semblance of towniness, but he hasn't. At all.

...wat

So you kill a PR so the RB can't block that PR anymore, but can instead block the OTHER PR while scum then get to PR-hunt with their shots.

#logic.

pedit: So basically, Nacho does wall readlists as either alignment, and he's good at imitating his town thought process as scum.

So what should I look for if I reread that wall, then?

[BROseidon]

There's close to a week left till dl so this quick sudden surge on SSK looks p bad. Out of Hana, Bert, Gen, and Cephir, I'm looking at Bert and Cephir.

Why are you only looking at 1/2 the wagon, especially when 1 of the people you're ignoring is the guy who's wagon was being countered by the SSK wagon?

[BROseidon]

His doctor claim has gone uncountered. I find it unlikely we have no protective role.

I'm going to go back to the setup-meta point and say that we probably have a JK/BG who can't be 100% sure on the CC, and even if they were biasing towards my train of thought on this would STILL not claim b/c

[BROseidon]

I'm getting a lot of mileage off that line.

[BROseidon]

{casso, bert, desp} would be my first guesses

I also put Ceph in here, in the order of like Casso-Ceph-Bert-Desp.

The people who are commenting on Desp not having that strong of a presence here should read Anything Goes. I don't think his presence there was particularly strong either. In that game it was b/c DGB/Kuribo/Katsuki/TammyMina/MeAP made it pretty hard for anyone else to get heard. This game feels similarly needlessly loud/spammy, although with the spam being substantially less yelling and ad homs and more just... spam...

Since Tammy's dead, I guess Cabd's the only person who I could expect to comment on this, unless anyone has like 4 hours to burn and wants to hate themselves forever.

[BROseidon]

si.

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=29987

Docs blocked different kill mechanics, though.

That'd be like saying FBI Agent and Cop are the same role.

[BROseidon]

I am very very skeptical of this answer. I'm like 99.9% GIF spent a large part of day 1 wanting to kill SC and I'm pretty sure that I spent atleast a post talking about Muffin/SSK etc. So this whole "well I didn't think you thought they were scum" seems rather detached from the game.

That doesn't change the fact that your phrasing was weird and makes the earlier reads feel less legitimate as a result.

[BROseidon]

{casso, bert, desp} would be my first guesses

Why not Cephir?

wait wtf why are you thinking about things the same way I am.

Please stop being too much the voice of goddamn reason. I'm already getting scum vibes from you for the same reason I got scum vibes from Desp in Anything Goes.

Which I know is wrong, but my gut/paranoia are still very strong.

[BROseidon]

SSK is almost certainly scum bc setup. there's a gunsmith and a vigilante so it makes sense to put a scumdoc to counter both of them

Scumdoc only checks Vig.

pedit: What I'm most concerned about with Nacho is how quickly the SSK wagon moved once Nacho was under pressure. Regardless of SSK's alignment, someone wanted to move attention elsewhere fast.

[BROseidon]

B. There's somehow an imaginary rule that goes with gunsmith setups or whatever that a doc can only be balanced for scum? Guess what? I'm a town doc in this setup, so that is very clearly wrong.

It's not an imaginary rule. It's a common setup core because it gives scum a stronger position than having a cop/GF does while fulfilling the same purpose.

[BROseidon]

It makes no sense to me why a townie would fakeclaim doc.

There are reasons.

If you want to bring in one of the 2 non-normal roles that may be in play the number expands tremendously.

[BROseidon]

Okay, caught up.

Vote's staying on Casso.

Working on the assumption of a scum team of {Casso, SSK, Ceph/Bert/Desp, X, X}.

I think I may need to up both my numbers in 4652 now that I think about it a bit more. 4/3 +/-1 makes more sense given that MC/GM/myself/DOMO were all off the wagon.

[BROseidon]

ftr Bert/Desp could also be in one of those X's. Those three don't have mutual exclusivity.

[BROseidon]

Oh yeah I should also mention that I'm paranoid as fuck about BBQ, but I know that I unreasonably bias towards being paranoid when I feel like other players are being too reasonable.

[BROseidon]

We're looking at 4 or 5 scums, right?

I think casso bert SSK look most likely, with people like pie, ceph and SAD making up the next group.

Probably 15:5.

Possibly 15:4:1 or 14:3:3, which would require that a kill was blocked last night, or both targeted Tammy.

[BROseidon]

Just because it's out of character, or...?

I don't get what you're asking here.

[BROseidon]

I remember vividly how being alive 3 days after claiming tracker in the NY 165 game affected the remaining town players.

I remember most of the game treating you with conf-town status b/c of outing Cabd->Orc and being incredibly frustrated that we couldn't shoot you.

Also, remember that you were protected during that entire interval AND there were missing NKs all over the place that game because FUCKING STUPID WHITE MAGE AG:LKDHG:LAHSGKL:AHGKAHDJG":LAHGKL:AJG:LAHGJ:LASHGKL:AJGSJG:

[BROseidon]

I'm practically confirmed townie and so far I've mustered up generic's vote and arguably bro's. Does that not say something about how willing scum are to lynch casso? If he's town, then those already on him are likely to be scum, and I'm as scum as empire is.

I'm sticking with you as long as we're both alive.

[BROseidon]

pedit - god yeah that white mage. Greatest mislynch ever. AP became my hero as I wacthed that unfold.

AP is a god among men.

Okay back to catchup spamming.

[BROseidon]

I also put Ceph in here, in the order of like Casso-Ceph-Bert-Desp.

i'm more like casso-bert-desp-ceph of those 4, but i still don't really see ceph as scum here

when/why did you start scum reading ceph, btw?

My first instance of a scum-Ceph read was on day 1, based on associative stuff from DOMO. Since DOMO's obvtown now, a lot of that early logic doesn't apply, but I've also cued in on scum buddying town early and dual-scumread the interactions before (Katsuki/DGB in Anything Goes in particular. Scumread both for how they were interacting (among other reasons), but the awkwardness I was reading in the interaction ultimately was driven by katsuki-scum). I still have a gut-scumread on Ceph.

[BROseidon]

Yes but the difference is nero and casso. Here it's casso on the ropes. Why aren't scum seizing on a fistpump mislynch? Because they're scared to? Or because it's not a mislynch?

mm, i think casso is scum here, but this line of thinking got me into a sort of confirmation bias in xenogears with nacho in an almost identical situation. and i'm still unsure why scum weren't all over his lynch in that game. *shrug*

They were too busy bussing each other into the ground.

[BROseidon]

Can we put ThorCho out of their misery yet?

[BROseidon]

Why is it strange that they were being the voice of reason and saying things you agreed with?

Oh.

I'm just naturally paranoid about anyone that I deem as being "too reasonable"

[BROseidon]

DOMO, i'm gonna abuse my confirmed town status here a bit and tell you as nicely as I can to drop it. There's things going on outside the game, and the site in general right now, that has ffery on the very edge of her play.

I agree that you're taking this too far, DOMO.

I know I said I'd sheep you till hell freezes over, but we're aware of this train of thought, and we can address it should the prerequisite set of flips happen. It's not the best thing to push right now.

We need to push through a Casso lynch right now.

[BROseidon]

That SSK is probably town too, and thus doc. Also, that BRO, generic and bert all look dodgy for sheeping me as I tried to muster up votes for you.

I'm shamelessly sheeping you till death do us part. Don't worry.

[BROseidon]

Also, huge props to empire for the relentless VC updates. Best mod I've seen so far.

Bork's the only one I've seen do better.

But I'm pretty sure Bork cheats and has a script that steals page-tops.

[BROseidon]

Bro, this is I'm not sure what - a warning I guess. I'm teetering on the precipice of massive paranoia about you.

Is this at F16 or me? Kind of hard to tell from context :/

[BROseidon]

fwiw if Casso is town then SAD is scum

also, if Tammy is good at reading casso that might explain the tammy kill 0.0

tammy is good at reading 75% of this playerlist. we all benefitted from her death.

Wow.

Just, wow.

That's one hell of a slip.

vote desperado

I want to lynch this now :/

[BROseidon]

Are you sure that's a scumslip?

Protip: It wasn't. Desp is just shitty at grammar, apparently.

Anyone who wanted to jump on that (who has English as their first language) should probably get at least a wagon tomorrow.

[BROseidon]

Get in line.

And such a bold statement without the fucking vote. Never had you down as a pussy bro. Testing the water to see who will join you?

No, lynching scumcho first.

[BROseidon]

BRO is sheeping DOMO and ignoring me completely despite having enough information to make a read of me on his own. I know he can see how frustrated I am with this lynch, I know he knows exactly how I feel at this moment because he's been going down angry, swinging, overwhelmed with the nothing cases on him but he's pretending he doesn't see any of it at all.

I don't see the same emotion out of you, that's the problem.

In Xenogears we had a back and forth so intense that I flipped a shit, self-hammered, and couldn't see through my rage to change the course of the game.

Here, I don't see that frustration.

[BROseidon]

BRO has recently shown he will throw out a wide vague net to allow him to point a finger of suspicion on someone yet not get his hands dirty to do it. That's leaves a shitty taste in the mouth.

lolllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Looks like my Kuroko-style is running out. Too bad subs don't exist in mafia.

I don't have a grasp on the game flow this game, and there aren't any players that I have other trump cards on (Ghostlin, Rach, etc), so I'm finding it hard to have the impact that I normally have.

[BROseidon]

Once I hit my stride, scum'll lose.

I'm like Kagami waiting to get into "the Zone."

...I need to stop reading basketball manga.

[BROseidon]

Closing the door - to pre empt what the person you are arguing with will post next to spin such a response as scummy. Generally seen as a scum tactic because of the nature of its purpose, to promote your opponent as scummy by creating a supposed template of how a scum player would respond.

wtf?

I anticipate as both alignments. I literally anticipated out an entire game during day 3 in Anything Goes.

[BROseidon]

And as for BRO, I've never left him. Notice how I kept goading him with you? He's just not here and you thought you could join the attacks on me and hope I wouldn't bite back.

I'm not gonna bite. This game doesn't need more noise.

[BROseidon]

@mod V/LA through Saturday

[BROseidon]

I know we should use the day yada yada but...

MafiaSSK's going to being annoying as fuck.

[BROseidon]

I've done some reading. I agree SSK is today's lynch. I still want Casso and Cephrir dead.

Today, my task is going to be over figuring out that messy pile of people I don't really know about.

P-EDIT

CASSO NO ES TOWN

STAHP

Would scum-Casso suggest a flashlynch on his buddy near the deadline?

When SSK is already dead? Easily.

[BROseidon]

Hi.

The scumteam is Bert/Cass/mafiassk/BRO.

gg.

yes/yes/yes/no.

So close to competent. So close...

pedit: That's worth basing your argument on. 5 demerits to you.

[BROseidon]

f-16 you're forgetting that Bert puts in less effort as scum b/c of personal reasons.

[BROseidon]

VOTE: SSK

[BROseidon]

So, I've been thinking about this and re-evaluating my thoughts. Why not lynch a different player than SSK today? SSK as scum is harmless to us since we already lost the vig. I doubt it makes much difference whether we lynch him now or later. The key reason I feel this way is that as time goes on the skill of the town deteriorates as the competent townies get killed. We should lynch the best scum (the ones capable of talking themselves of out trouble) while the competent townies are still alive. That way, we ensure they don't come up with a crazy way to wiggle their way out of lynches later on. On the other hand, SSK can be lynched anytime. I found it interesting he didn't claim to be roleblocked or anything but scumclaimed right away. Anyone can lynch him anytime. It is a foregone conclusion. On the other hand, the best scum players are usually only lynched when the best townies are still alive and they are far more of a threat. ffery, what are your thoughts about this? Also, Sakura's responses were meh. I didn't really find anything that made me go "well, that explains everything." It is still a matter of weighing whether she genuinely believed in that tell enough to outweigh her ignoring it in two other games.

SSK likely not scum doc.

Would rather lynch the confscum so that he stops posting about cheese.

This town isn't weak enough for attrition to cause too much damage.

[BROseidon]

Can we stop voting ssk now so ffery and i can talk? i dont even care if everyone else prod dodges until we're done.

I'm gonna take you up on that kthx.

[BROseidon]

SCUMMIEST: Cephrir > Arthur > Norlkaz > zMuffin > Sakura > BRO :TOWNIEST

Generic, Pieguyn, and Bert read very town and KBBQ and Casso get a pass for today. The others are confirmed. So, I'll probably start doing the interaction analysis with SSK starting with Cephrir.

wtf why does Casso get a pass.

*someone* counterwagoned him yesterday on scum, and I'm still gonna bet that it was scum.

[BROseidon]

Ffery/cabd have your goddamn convo so we can put an end to this god forsaken day.

[BROseidon]

Would rather lynch the confscum so that he stops posting about cheese.

Fyi this is a really scummy statement regardless of whether it is meant to be a joke or not.

Your definition of "scummy" is bad and you should feel bad.

In a game with this much noise, the last thing we need is more noise. The "we need strong townies pushing better lynches" argument is invalid in a game with reasonable depth (like this one)

[BROseidon]

I'm open to a massclaim here; we're clearly already down our two best roles and are going to have to lynch scum today and go it mountainous.

Uh, what?

Vig is anti-town.

[BROseidon]

ffery and cabd connect already so we can end this day.

This "we should lynch not-ssk" is bs.

[BROseidon]

I have about as much respect for this statement as "Creationism should be taught in schools so students can see both theories."
Vig is more powerful than cop. You can wrongly argue against that and I won't be mad, but "vig is anti-town" is actively irritatingly stupid.

Vig is so powerful that it makes town win rates go down.

Wait...

[BROseidon]

One of the greens posted it in an MD discussion at one point.

I'm sure Cabd could go dig it up.