Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[Whiskers]

vote: Wisdom

You fucking ninja'd my First. Die.

[Whiskers]

Also,

I

was going to random vote for Malakittens.

Also, you took up the last slot on the "Display posts by user" drop-down menu, which is usually reserved for me. That one isn't really your fault but it's sort of a pet peeve of mine.

Vote Harder: Wisdom

[Whiskers]

Pirate Mollie is super scum or super new noobie noob?

Can't tell.

Also shos, you're terrible at reaction tests, unless you are scum who is sloppy on purpose.

Daykill: shos

[Whiskers]

well that is kind of what I think too. it seems like he would be more reactive

xposts

And yet you're voting Nacho~

oh look some1 I have never played before thinks I am scum. I am shocked I tell you simply shocked

Oh, why do I get the feeling

you're

going to be my favourite little player in this fun little game?

Pirate mollie, I was annoyed with the way you treated me in mykos game. However I'm going to be much more calm and rational this game than I've been before. I think taking a break from games was good.

Not to worry, I'm going to be much

less

calm and rational than I was before I took

my

break.

[Whiskers]

wis you are starting to freak me out

Why not vote him if he's starting to freak you out?

Because that would give associative teeeells.

its been an hour

Yeah because
It's not like Day phases are
y'know
three weeks long
or anything.

[Whiskers]

And where the hell is whiskers? the moment we started asking questions.. He vanishes.. Something cooking.

Heh.


Also, didn't anybody else realize? Everybody saying that Nachomamma got really defensive: did you forget that

just before that

, he was saying that a townie getting voted would get really defensive? I don't think he's suspicious for being "defensive" about being voted-- that's a playstyle thing, everypony is different-- no, I think he's suspicious for being defensive because I believe he's intentionally doing it, playing to a sort of idealized town meta.

To recap:
"It's town to be a horse"
*bees a horse*
See?

[Whiskers]

Everybody saying that Nachomamma got really defensive:

btw "everybody" looks like it's just MAlakittens and pirate mollie, I think. Did a quick scan.

[preeedit]
(but malakittens says there're two before her? Who are they?)

[Whiskers]

I think he's putting on an act.

[Whiskers]

To rephrase,

NO NO NO NO NO

This is when I first thought Nacho was going to "freak out" to look town.

if he was town he'd be panicking, calling me scum with whiskers, screaming his pretty little head off

And then everybody (again, "everybody" is like, two people) went, "WHOA, HE SURE IS DEFENSIVE!" And I was like, "9___9 jeez you guys didn't anybody read this post (32)?"

[Whiskers]

Sorry but this makes no sense, and the only feeling I get from your posts is that you're trying to be manipulative.

Ok.

@whiskers please explain this post
that really makes no sense. as repeated in 101.

99 was a response to Wisdom.
100 was the explanation for that, since I realized it might raise some questions.

Quote please, yes.

Wisdom is playing townily.

I'd rather Mala answer that before Whiskers does.

Which is why I specifically didn't answer it when you asked Mala... although, I guess I ended up doing it anyway, which makes me wonder why Nacho is asking this in the first place...

This post in particular of Whiskers' 3 early game posts looks contrived. His antics do not seem genuine as expressions of his personality. My impression of those 3 posts was Whiskers trying to talk about things for the sake of talking.

The daykill bit is a little unusual for me, usually when I do stuff like that, I get lynched. So I don't do it anymore. But I've got kind of a fetish for daykills-- expect to see me asking about them later in the game.

I don't think Whiskers as scum would try to push a theory this early in the game.

I should point out that I don't really play my scum game different from my town game. At all (except maybe not daykilling people wildly). That's the only reason I'm good as either.

[Whiskers]

if he was town he'd be panicking, calling me scum with whiskers, screaming his pretty little head off

[@Whiskers]

So your entire case hinges on a comment that Nacho made that was specifically referring to Wisdom?

Nacho wasn't saying "all town freaks out and gets defensive," he was saying that Wis should have been freaking out.[/quote]
Why do you think this is a Wisdom-specific meta that Nacho is using? Have you played with Wisdom before? Do you agree that, him as town, would go all muppet-armed over being Random-Vote-Wagonned early Day 1? Do you agree with Nacho's meta of him?

Or if not, what makes you think that Nachomamma is referring only to Wisdom with this comment? What makes you think that it was a comment about Wisdom, not a comment about town-play?

[Whiskers]

I understood that it was a relative tell that he was talking about.

what is funny is I don't really think that nacho was being defensive, I was mostly trolling him and pushing his buttons and while I get why arc and mebbe even mala followed my push cos they he and I are pretty good friends and sometimes nacho can be a blank slate that is best observed through other people's eyes when all you see is an empty canvas but i find your push to be weird.

Hey, thanks for answering a question I addressed to someone else.

I don't think he was being defensive either. My quote that made me think he was trying to play to that "relative tell" was "NO NO NO NO NO."
That's not a real defence. It's not real defensiveness. But is it "screaming his little head off"?

So, misrepping, too.

I like you a

lot

.

[Whiskers]

VOTE: Malakittens

I also think one of mollie/Arcangel is scum, but not both.

Huh.

Why?

[Whiskers]

Hey, thanks for answering a question I addressed to someone else.

your welcome since I answered after the person who you addressed to answered!

Wrong again! You answered

immediately

after I asked it, in the very next post, in fact. As in, my question was 120, and your answer was 121.
So are you lying, or just stupid?

okay. so you think he was being defensive yet faking defensiveness.

wow cool. try reading.

tbh I am not even sure what we are talking about even more

tbh i am not even surprised.

idgi

of course you don't.

[Whiskers]

Because you're scum

Yeah, but

why

? Isn't wiki-crawling in a theme game something that's really, really town to do?

Or I guess, thinking about it, it's really, really not-telling. But it seems like informative, useful, so therefore pro-town.

[Whiskers]

Why do you think this is a Wisdom-specific meta that Nacho is using? Have you played with Wisdom before? Do you agree that, him as town, would go all muppet-armed over being Random-Vote-Wagonned early Day 1? Do you agree with Nacho's meta of him?

Because he was taking to Wisdom, yes, yes, yes

None of this is even considering the laughable suggestion that Nacho would, as scum, telegraph his own future towntells in thread. That is pants on head retarded.

Oh, ok.

I haven't played with Wisdom (ok, I probably HAVE. But I don't remember it.) so I don't know if it's in his meta to become stupid when getting wagonned.
In fact, That's kind of dumb. Anybody who isn't a brand-spanking-new player, knows not to flail wildly when getting Day 1 wagonned. Almost always, they go away on their own. And never-ever does flailing help the Day 1 random-vote speed-wagon to

not

go through.
So if that's what Nacho's talking about, then he's fucking stupid.
And you're fucking stupid for, er, agreeing with... well, the

notion

of it, whether that's what he meant or not.

All of that aside.

Yes, of course he would say what is town

before

he did it. Doing a thing and then announcing that it was town

afterwards

would look really scummy. It's the same thing, basically, just the process ends up making you look better or worse.
And, why not? Why wouldn't he say, "This makes

a player

Wisdom

town", and then turn around and do it himself? If people bought the premise that it makes

someone

town, then how could it possibly hurt him to do it?
Better yet, what he did, he did in a joking manner. Again, "NO NO NO NO NO" is not real flailing, more like pretending to flail. It's Day 1. It's not out of place. But again, he said, "This is a town thing to do," and then he

did

it, however silly it was.

Or, I could grab Malakittens' reasons for having him be

actually

defensive. If he's actually getting oddly defensive about something, then it's really interesting, because it means he's probably not doing it intentionally, he's doing it honestly. Which, I suppose, would make him towntelling. Accidentally. So probably town.

Anyway, it was just an idea that I had. Not to undermine myself, but I'm not using this magical theory to lynch all the scum on page fucking 7. I just wanted to point it out.

[Whiskers]

It's not a tell that would apply to nacho or others,

Why not? Is this one magical thing what makes you unique, your defining characteristic in an otherwise entirely standard, white-rice, mafia player?
Argh. I'll quit.

[Whiskers]

Aw Maaaaaan! There's like, four more pages!

Whiskers isn't your point about nacho more concerned with nacho than wisdom? If nacho is scum wouldn't it be more likely that wisdom is town?

I... I suppose? Or,
"Yes" and "I suppose," in that order.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers -

Leaning town

Huh, nevermind about my other read then...

As for whiskers I haven't had time to check and I always mix him up with rd.

Here's the difference: RD is good, Whiskers is just hateful.


Also it took me like, 5 minute to figure out who the hell "Penny" was.

Oopsie daisy.
Why leave yourself out, Wisdom?

makes me not mind my vote on Mirari.

Yeah, really.
That was a stupid thing for Mirari to say. Stupid at best.

[Whiskers]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Desp

You are sheeping and echoing everything I do.

I'll sheep this.

Thoughts:
I don't think Mala is scum.
I don't think penguin is scum, but most of all, penguin is being more useful than most of you. I'd policy not-lynch her.
I don't want to vote pirate mollie

because I hate her

and voting out of emotion gets me lynched.
Arc is another possible vote.
Shos posting the roman guy and a big x is meaning that he is not roman, but instead an early scot, and so we should all vote him for being an anachronism.

have to get dressed & to the bus in ten minutes for school. two pages left to read.

[Whiskers]

Nah, that was a stupid thing for penguin to say. Mirari's post was null.

Also, the buddying here.

[Whiskers]

Hey guys do I teach my Persian [Slash], getting rid of [Faint Attack]?

[Whiskers]

Whiskers is voting Wisdom because he believes(?) him to be scum while calling out Nacho for faking defensiveness. I wanted to see Whiskers opinion on that matter. My statement also conveyed my own thoughts, from the early game I thought Wisdom was town and Nacho was scum. My townread of Wisdom has been solidified over the most recent pages. I am reconsidering Nacho.

Whoa, whoa! No, no, no. I'm voting Wisdom because he posted before me while I was writing my "First!" post. I'm leaning town on him.

Unvote

, if that helps.

Also, does anybody want to remind me why shos is scum?
Also, does anybody want to remind me why Mirai is scum?
Also, does anybody want to remind me why penguino is scum?

[Whiskers]

He's doing a catchup that looks good. And I know, Information over analysis, and I also know, that a catchup is really easy to make look good. But I'm not really reading anything into it more than gut right now.

Just seems to me that, Town outnumber scum (although, now that I think about it, we don't know that. But still, it's assumed), so I'm doing a more of an "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Or maybe, "Neutral until suggested otherwise." You say shos is scum, I'm not really sure why.
Those three players, in fact, look just fine to me-- null, meaning "Don't lynch them." Mirai is my least-favourite of the group, but if I recall correctly, that can be blamed on OMGUS.

[Whiskers]

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

Erp-- you probably don't like me much here then either, do you?

[Whiskers]

I didn't mean it like that-- I mean that you must think I'm scum, since your description of shos's play-- what you claim makes him scummy-- pretty much exactly describes my.... ME.

Also... Is this some new thing where every player has individual tells and nothing else matters? Like, when there's a new player, you all dance around shrugging violently, unable to read them at all? I'm not sure I like that-- I'm not going to be able to take your word for it, that shos is scummy for the "melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments," if none of it also makes ME scummy.

I won't be able to take anything any one of you says seriously, in fact.

What I'm seeing, with the Nacho-Wisdom bit from before, and now with the MattP-shos bit:

Whoa! Malakittens is totally [ALIGNMENT] because she's a cat!

Oh man, you must think

I'm

[ALIGNMENT] too, then, since I'm also a cat.

Oh, by no means. It's only applicable when Malakittens does it.

[Whiskers]

@whiskers
It's called meta, and for many of us it's a

primary scumhunting tool.

You'll have to deal with it.

That's stupid.

That's

so

stupid.

If it worked, it would take any fun in the game, out of the game.

Also, it's not consistent or reliable.

Also, it's

stupid

to rely on as your

PRIMARY SCUMHUNTING TOOL ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME??!

[Whiskers]

VOTE: whiskers

sorry wis I think she is faking it. it is a new fad for scum to fake meltdowm over nothing and say they hate you for it.

Does that make me a hipster?

Let me rephrase that other post: meta is a tool that you use to research your reads and make solid your suspicions. It should not ever be your entire case, as that is

fucking stupid.

[Whiskers]

248 is perfect. PER-FUCKING-FECT. works perfectly with my mala scumread.

Seriously
Look at stuff like this

This is not only not "perfect", this is only a stupid thing I came up with the time and thought it will be funny. BUT OF COURSE, it goes with your scumread, let's mention it and say how awesome it is.


How the fuck anyone can think shos is town is beyond me.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: shos

Let's do shos first.

See, I was about to do this, because, yeah, filler.

But then,

my read on matt - it's not stupid it all. this is not a decline of activity, this is not-existing-of-it. Matt has posted like, what, 7 posts the entire game? and take a look at their content; do you remember ANYTHING that he said apart from 'shos is scum'? no. you know why? because he NEVER SAID ANYTHING APART FROM THAT. I did not mention scummatt being inactive, no, but I did mention that matttown is superfuckingamazingly active, didn't I? and last time I checked I want to lynch people who are not town. I'm not voting him, no, because that's only meta and I'm not going to push a lurker policy lynch(did that for the first time this month lol) and PA and mala are more likely scum; but I can't ignore his inactivity, especially when he DOES jump and post once in a while, showing that he IS reading the topic and is INTENTIONALLY lurking.

I read this.
And then I looked at MattP's ISO.

And while I'm sure it'll come back to bite me in the arse, when shos eventually flips scum, I'm not comfortable lynching him right now. Matt's posts are all one line, with maybe one sparse handfull of exceptions.

Vote: MattP

It means one of a few things: MattP is scum, MattP is a power role, MattP is nightkill-baiting. I don't really care which though, because active lurking is still lurking, and lurking is inherently pro-scum (& therefore anti-town).

And yes, I know, his activity has picked up a little bit while he and Wisdom 69'd. But what has been added to the collective knowledge pool? Nothing. They're discussing which one of them is misunderstanding the issue.

[Whiskers]

Shos is actually right when he says MattP only had like, seven posts. Here they are now:

Spoiler: Information

Pirate mollie, I was annoyed with the way you treated me in mykos game. However I'm going to be much more calm and rational this game than I've been before. I think taking a break from games was good.

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

But it's ok, sooner or later he'll probably accidentally post his scum role PM on the thread or something and we can all lynch him without much of a discussion.

I never said that I'm reading shos this way because I know shos's prior play. I don't remember anything about his prior play. What I'm saying is that the way he's posted in THIS game with NOTHING else to reference is scummy. I am further saying that you asking me to somehow make my assessment mathematical and foolproof and use it to additionally incriminate you is ridiculous since there's no way I can state that something that shos is doing is in ALL situations scummy or that what he is doing is scummy in essence disregarding tone or the uniqueness of his posts. You are not posting verbatim the words he is posting so you can't ask me to compare your posts word for word to his.

I additionally never stated that you are a scum or town read to me, I am saying that you trying to make me compare yourself and shos on a certain checklist is impossible. That is it. Shos is scum because his posts are scummy. If you would like me to somehow articulate the reason into words, I would best describe the reason as "melodrama and inconsequential theoretical arguments". The ACTUAL reason is that his posts are scummy. Pigeonholing my reasons into discrete categories opens the room for the type of responses that you made to my post, which is why this never should have happened. Why don't you wait for Shos to post his scum role PM by mistake in the thread like I suggested earlier.

I have 7 definite town as of this point, myself included. Whiskers is in that pile. Pirate Mollie is in that pile. They shouldn't be voting each other

Wisdom is in that pile. Malakittens is in that pile. They shouldn't be voting each other. Any questions?

Btw, I never fucking voted for PMollie. Not paying enough attention, I guess.

Spoiler: MattP joins the game

Well, he did say that his first catchup made him think shos is scum and the later ones changed his mind.

1) Shos posts a catchup post
2) GG says Shos is not a townread
3) GG makes a post that has nothing to do with shos and shos posts another catchup and a reads list
4) You ask GG what he likes about Shos
5) GG says he likes the content of Shos's catchup posts and at best the idea of catching up could be seen as null BUT the CONTENT is towny

I don't see the part where GG says that Shos's content prior to

I don't understand the penguin-votes from the previous page.

Townreads are coming in. shos is not one of them.

Is not towny

Oh sorry, I missed

3.5) GG says he likes Shos, and especially liked his catchup posts (which in 2 he had said he did not like the initial posts by shos)

GG never even brought 2 back up in his convo with you (unless I missed something)

And now that I've made this more complicated than it needs to be, in a nutshell please just refer to this to see the lie from GrimGroove

And the last three are one right after another, three consecutive posts. One of them was an EBWOP.

His next post is this:

That was earlier when I didn't like his first catch-up, especially him asking me to explain something I already had explained, which gave me the impression he was pretending to follow. I didn't realize he was slowly going through the topic from the beginning and hadn't read myexplanation yet. Now I've got a slight townread on him, liked his latest catch-ups and reads.

^
Here, this is the answer to my "You said you're not townreading shos. Are you scumreading him?"

That's fine, the game would have been less fun if he made such a stupid scumslip anyway. [:

Pedit: Shos, I can't be bothered with explaining all of my reads. I'm too busy reading your huge catchup walls and figuring out how to make my "eighth" post of the game. Oh, there, I did it!

No, seriously Wisdom. He doesn't do much.

[Whiskers]

@whiskers
No, it means Matt wants to post one-liners, and it's perfectly fine. That's not what active lurking is. He has provided tons of content and he still does.

tbh I don't like Whiskers right now, but I think he's more VI than scum.

@Whiskers
Activity means nothing. Amount of posts means nothing. What matters is quality. And Matt's posts have it. Period.

Yes, but no.

@Matt, why are you voting me?

Well, because you're mafia

Wow. Much content. So quality.

[Whiskers]

(or maybe you don't have daytalk! Gotta avoid "scumslipping" about mechanic knowledge or Whiskers may Mr. Literal me)

Says the guy who told me to wait for shos to post his scum role PM.

Or, wait, was that a joke? Sorry. Figured it must be another "reaction test".

[Whiskers]

I said your content posts were filler.

Dear Mirari,
Please read MattP.
Truly, An Cat

[Whiskers]

(or maybe you don't have daytalk! Gotta avoid "scumslipping" about mechanic knowledge or Whiskers may Mr. Literal me)

Says the guy who told me to wait for shos to post his scum role PM.

Or, wait, was that a joke? Sorry. Figured it must be another "reaction test".

Yes, I wasn't being literal with either point. You're very literal. We continue in this limbo. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

Oh, I was just kind of taking up shos' cause from

Spoiler: here

If someone puts wisdom at l-1 I'm going to hammer

But actually

23 - reaction test

seriously? you think that was a reaction test? that was such an obvious rvs lie,

Ty for choosing one miniscule, inconsequential, snarky post of mine to make a point.

Here, let me choose another minuscule, inconsequential, snarky post of yours.

Aw man pirate you couldn't have waited just a little longer?

Another

Spoiler:

I could, if I felt he was scummier than mala.

Well I'm not gonna try to dissuade you, I'll let the duck quack for itself.

Another

Also, does anybody want to remind me why shos is scum?

I think I would find it more helpful if you reminded me why he's not scum so that I had something concrete to reference in my response.

Another

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

Erp-- you probably don't like me much here then either, do you?

Oh, I'm sorry for giving the impression that I don't like shos much. I think he's a very nice guy. He just drew scum. Regardless, I have no possible way of comparing you with shos in any form because you're both two unique lil snowflakes in a winter wonderland

Another

o no im out of popcorn how am i suposed 2 reed these posts lel

Another

In fact... most of your "useful" posts-- with some quality of content, you know-- are in discussions with Wisdom. In which one of your says something, and the other one can't understand it, you both make a few more posts and it amounts to nothing.
Or, you know, "nothing" to everybody except for you two, 'cause you guys are just getting loads and

loads

of reads and shit, out of inconsequential chit-chat made between the two of you.

So we have the Townleader scum, the active lurking scum (buddied), we just need to suss out the third, bussed scum, and we'll have a whole prospective scum-team.

---

Interestingly enough, I think the fact that Wisdom can't understand and has to dip his fingers into every post MattP makes, makes Wisdom more likely scum, than Matt-- but also that WisScum means MatScum is more likely. Like, MatScum is 25% and WisScum is 50%, but if Wisdom flips scum. MatScum 50%.

[Whiskers]

Yes, I wasn't being literal with either point. You're very literal. We continue in this limbo. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

Also, seriously? In a game based 100% on communication, you're going to try your very hardest to obfuscate the actual meaning of things? Fuck you, mate.

[Whiskers]

Yes, I wasn't being literal with either point. You're very literal. We continue in this limbo. I don't see the point you're trying to make here.

Also, seriously? In a game based 100% on communication, you're going to try your very hardest to obfuscate the actual meaning of things? Fuck you, mate.

"Oh, I wasn't being literal when I said you were too literal. What I actually meant was that shos is scum. But not literally. By that I meant he is mafia. But not literally. By that I meant is that his role in this game is of the

Mafia

faction. But not literally."

I-- what?

"What I actually meant is that, by using a complicated series of deeply meaningful exchanges with fellow player Wisdom (but not literally, he probably has a different name IRL), I believe I have found evidence to suggest that shos is, not literally, scum."

But, but, where have you had any meaningful exchanges with Wisdom? Where is the evidence you're using?!

"My, how literal!"

[Whiskers]

Wisdom can't understand and has to dip his fingers into every post MattP makes,

And he is now even using misreps to make conclusions. This is done by scum, every time.

Whoa, whoa, I thought we could only use meta, man. Only meta tells are effective in scumhunting. It is the

major scumhunting tool!

[Whiskers]

Where the fuck did I not understand something Matt said, Whiskers?

Nearly

every post Matt makes, you make a corresponding post asking him something about it-- and then go off to have a nice fun conversation in which nothing happens and no conclusions are reached.

Spoiler: Figure 1

So Matt, if you were willing to hammer me, why don't you vote me?

You think I was going to hammer you then?

@Matt
I don't know, you said you would

I'm simply surprised you didn't consider it being a lie

Maybe I did

Righty-o

Spoiler: Figure 2

I'll go ahead and own up on this one-- I mistook what the quote chain started with (it was a post from shos).
So instead, this is a case of MattP sticking his fingers in

your

post, needlessly, and without consequence.

Why are you trying to discredit mollie's read?

Why are you trying to discredit mollie's read?

You could have coupled that question with a vote, yes?

I could, if I felt he was scummier than mala.

I could, if I felt he was scummier than mala.

Well I'm not gonna try to dissuade you, I'll let the duck quack for itself.

Spoiler: Figure 3

And this one is a bit of a stretch-- you weren't actually interacting with MattP

directly

... you were just finishing his conversation for him.

Also, does anybody want to remind me why shos is scum?

I think I would find it more helpful if you reminded me why he's not scum so that I had something concrete to reference in my response.

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

But it's ok, sooner or later he'll probably accidentally post his scum role PM on the thread or something and we can all lynch him without much of a discussion.

Oh, well I think he sounds like scum. That's probably where we disagree. It's his melodrama of his tone and fixation on inconsequential, theoretical arguments more so than the quantity of his text during his catchup.

Erp-- you probably don't like me much here then either, do you?

Oh, I'm sorry for giving the impression that I don't like shos much. I think he's a very nice guy. He just drew scum. Regardless, I have no possible way of comparing you with shos in any form because you're both two unique lil snowflakes in a winter wonderland

Because she is town.

Trust me on penguin, grim. She is different as town.

@whiskers
It's called meta, and for many of us it's a primary scumhunting tool. You'll have to deal with it.

If we use it, it means it works for us.

Why such an overreaction anyway?

Then nearly every post until 406 is directly addressing you, or in reply to you, not counting the reads he posted twice.

Spoiler: Figure 4

Here is MattP talking to someone other than you:

Well also btw Grimgroove scumslipped so we have GG and Shos as scum

How is it a scum slip? My opinion was that it was a preemptive announcement. Finally you realize I am town. What can I do to convince you ooba is town?
I'm with you on the penguin scum read. Why is her vote still on me? She has forgotten about her vote.

This confusion was cleared up later between myself and Wisdom.

I am pretty certain Ooba is town, as I said prior. I am LESS certain than I could be if he stopped using pictures and wrote more text. He'll eventually do this and within the next few RL days I'll settle my feelings. I don't really need convincing as of this moment.

I don't have Penguin as a scumread, I have him as "Eh" along with Desperado. Grim and Shos are my scumreads.

(however 427 makes me read P_A as scum. I think given a Grim/Penguin/Shos scumteam, where all three are in the spotlight, it's not unworldly that they would all mass buddy to try to get themselves out of such a ridiculously dire situation on page 18 of the game. Regardless, Shos is the only player I would lynch today, and I can worry more about relational tells tomorrow.)

Here is you getting jealous and butting in:

It would make more sense if penguin/Grim were scum WKing shos-town though :/

Nacho sheeping people felt a little weird, I'm too used to him being the leader. At least he agrees with the reads.

MattP is perfectly fine with the arrival of his boyfriend:

It seems that a strange rift has formed between one group of people (Shos, Grim, Whiskers, Penguin) and another (everyone else) where the former is scumreading Mala, myself, and Wisdom; and the latter is scumreading Shos (and to varying degrees Penguin, Whiskers and Grim). There is essentially no fluidity between the reads of these two groups, aka there is no single person that scumreads BOTH someone from [Mala, MattP, Wisdom] and [Penguin, Whiskers, Grim, Shos].

Very strange, slightly unsettling. Potentially a great thing.

Pedit: Nacho has sheeped me before, and I thought he was scum that game, and he was town.

EBWOP: Well, I thought he was town and then scum when PoE left us in a terrible situation where pretty much everyone left was town as fuck. We chose right in the end anyway.

Then there's another mini conversation about how Grimgroove is town or something where you were being townies, you know, the uninformed majority, and then all of a sudden one of you (in that case, MattP) taps the other on the shoulder and says, "Oh, by the way, only other player of my alignment, I have arrived at the conclusion that this and this."

---

And I can't say that makes you scum. But I can say that no other players in the game have the relationship that you have. It's really great that you trust each other

so much

. You must be so happy together.

[Whiskers]

Also I'm pretty sure I just quoted about 90% of Matt's ISO, and probably 50% of yours. You two talk to each other. A lot. And to other players? A lot less.

[Whiskers]

hahahahaha what

If you don't think I'm scumhunting the how about you shut the fuck up and leave me alone then?

wat

[Whiskers]

Figure 3 - This is completely incorrect, I was responding to your post where you said that each player has his tells and stuff. Nothing to do with your discussion with Matt.

Incorrect. It was responding to my post where I said that each player has his tells and stuff. That was the tail end of a conversation I was having with Matt.

Figure 4 - I was responding to 430, which was not addressed at Mirari, but was a general comment about what the scumteam is.

You're right, it was not addressed at Mirari-- which was my whole point. How I'm seeing it-- MattP and Mirari were talking, MattP brings up his reads and what the conversation has changed for him, you jump in and go, "Uh, uh, uh! It would make more sense if

this!

"

What you don't like is that me and Matt know each other are town and are working together, and you try to call that buddying or whatever. Too bad.

What I don't like is that you and Matt are working together like you both know the other one is a townie, which you couldn't. I don't like it because town never does this. You're playing like a hydra.

You still didn't explain where I didn't understand something Matt said.

It was a generalization, perhaps a bad one. Still, for an example, see Figure 1.

Figure 1 - I pretended I didn't understand he was reaction testing me to see his reaction. It was genuine, he immediately revealed it was a test and was confused at my reaction. Conclusion reached? He is town.

Oh riiiight. It was all a teeeest.

That's the other thing, I've never seen a town game so calculated. Everything works out exactly like you plan, doesn't it? Sure, I've seen people

claim

that all of their bullshit was "a reaction test". I guess it looks the worst when it doesn't work you. But yours has worked out. Which is odd.
So let me back up a minute and ask, Why are you and MattP reading each other perfectly this game? Not only do you both

know

the other one is town, but you both know when something the other has done is a reaction test.

And you still have not explained how penguin has been any useful. Don't think I'll drop it.

I'll get to it, clearly I'm busy.

[Whiskers]

Like Whiskers' ISO makes it pretty clear he thinks Wis and Matt are scum together. How are you missing that??

Sorry to shoot you down, mate, but I don't think they are scum together. I think they

could

be scum together, and something if definitely fucking up. But I don't think I've ever really pushed any of my scum reads.

Hmm. Come to think of it, I'm not sure I actually

have

any scum reads. I just have people who I shout a lot at. I'm a digger, so maybe someone will get something useful out of my posts. But I'd work best with concrete information; cop reports, flips.

If I had a vig-kill, my shot would be Miss Mollie, not because I think she's scum, but because every time she posts, I want to wring necks.

Also, kind of had Desperado in my "scum reads" for being worse than Matt-- short posts, not very many of them to begin with-- but I'm not sure I can vote him at this point, what with him being the Champion of Mt. Whiskers at the moment. ((Malakittens should see this paragraph and think I'm scum, it was in my meta to scumread people who townread me.))

Anyway.

Unvote

Vote: pirate mollie

[Whiskers]

EBWoP, this was supposed to be attached to the last one.

Why is Whiskers scum?

the pissiness looks fake and it looks like she is trying to work at coming up with a reason as to why nacho is scum and I am not town scum reading nacho but if whiskers flips scum nacho is for sure town but to me it is more about the fake meltdowns

Why... nacho is scum?
I called nacho scum once?
I don't remember that.
Let me go ISO myself.

Nope. You're still stupid.

See below.

[Whiskers]

I'm reading Wisdom well. I know he's town. In fact, he's my strongest townread. He's reading me well. That's great. That's going to cause huge overlapping of reads and in-thread mason-like discussion. It happens, and it's not exclusive or selfish or scummy, having someone you can trust is very powerful.

Oh. Ok.

Us working together like this, even if you think we're gaining nothing from it, is astronomically beneficial. We will never lynch each other and we will defend the other hardcore, and that will prevent a mislynch we are both positive of.

Whoa, what?!

Anyone being annoying and bullying us for that is more likely scum trying to damage a strong town-town alliance than paranoid town trying to break apart supposed buddying.

But-- wait, I thought you thought I was town?

[Whiskers]

From experience, when I am sure about someone being scum and someone disagrees, the one I thought is scum is actually town, and the one who disagreed is scum WKing the town.

Btw, what is WKing? I've been around for a while, but I've never heard this one, and it seems like only you are using it. This isn't an accusation or anything, I'm just not sure what it means.

every1

sigh.

[Whiskers]

So let me back up a minute and ask, Why are you and MattP reading each other perfectly this game? Not only do you both know the other one is town, but you both know when something the other has done is a reaction test.

What was "I will hammer Wisdom" if not an attempt to make me react and see what I will do?

Idk, RVS bullshit. And if it

was

a reaction test-- and you recognized it as one-- I'm pretty sure the townie thing to do would be to ignore it, rather than carefully crafting your reaction to paint you in a townie light. But that's nothing I'd call you scum for. Especially considering the way it fizzled out without going anywhere...

I officially also have no idea who you suspect anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0U0AlLVqpk

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, if you DON'T have a scumread on me why aren't you trying to work with me? I think I'm a pretty rational guy. It seems that if you just stopped throwing insults and snark at me and tried being cooperative it would make a whole lot more sense. Your antagonism towards nearly every player in the game is irrationally unproductive.

No, I actually kind of... Well, no, I'm not trying to work with you. But I'm no longer trying to work against you. TBH, I read you as more-town than Wisdom (but I'm not accounting for the fact that, the more posts you have, the more scum you'll seem).

[url="post 534]http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5500518[/url] started out with me reading it and going, "Yeah... I'll buy it. From you. Seems honest enough." And then I read the rest of the post.

And, now that I think about it, it's really weird that

again

, I'm doing something, and shos is doing something, and you scumread shos for it, but I'm somehow shielded from the scumread. Argh. I can't pretend that doesn't look like something scum would do! Placate the loud, obnoxious one, and go for the easier lynch. You can always Nightkill me anyway, if you have to.

But whatever. Point is, I trust you more than you think I do.

[Whiskers]

Then Whiskers why are you pointing things that should be making you think I am scum, only to say that you don't want to call me scum afterwards? What's the point?

I'm not, I mean [this particular thing is a difference of opinion or playstyle, and that's not telling], but that's not the only aspect of it. Also the other one you're thinking of ("You must be so happy together") was because I feel like you shouldn't have had such strong townreads on each other. I still don't, really. I was suggesting that you weren't

necessarily

scum, but if not, you were dating. Get it?

Btw to answer you, I wanted to see how Matt would react if I acted like I thought he was serious. I succeeded. If I had ignored it, neither of us would have got a read on each other. Why do that?

Because... why

would

you do that? I know, you just told me. But I've never seen that done before, to my knowledge. I guess it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. "It's weird."

Idk, RVS bullshit. And if it was a reaction test-- and you recognized it as one-- I'm pretty sure the townie thing to do would be to ignore it, rather than carefully crafting your reaction to paint you in a townie light. But that's nothing I'd call you scum for. Especially considering the way it fizzled out without going anywhere...

Except instead of ignoring it he turned it around back on me by asking ME a question so that I was in the spotlight? And then I asked HIM a question about his question? And so on for a few posts. And the amazing this is that within five minutes we both had townreads on each other! Call that effective!

Yeah, ok. But looking back on your exchange, it was something like,

M: I'll hammer Wisdom!
W: Why didn't you vote me, if you were willing to hammer?

btw, you don't vote someone you say you'll hammer, because then you can't lay down the hammer, duh. I've been thinking this every time I read that post.

M: You thought I was going to hammer?
W: mebbe
M: Did you consider it being a lie?
W: mebbe
M: Right-o.

Why do you have a town read from this? I could see why,

maybe

Wisdom would get a townread on

you

. Maybe. But not the other way 'round.

[Whiskers]

And then there was this.

-snip-

Btw, I did believe it, I've seen day-1 Day-1 speed-wagons go through and lynch.

[Whiskers]

btw, you don't vote someone you say you'll hammer, because then you can't lay down the hammer, duh. I've been thinking this every time I read that post.

If you are willing to hammer them, you think they are scum. Therefore, you should be voting them. That's what I used.

I don't know why we're still discussing this.

The bolded is not-true, but if that's what you used, that's what you used.

[Whiskers]

Mollie, what's your main?
I mean, I was gonna say, "who are you" but I've already seen you have at least two alt accounts (both have join dates within a month of this one, so er, why do you have so many fucking accounts?), so what account is your main? I'm curious because I actually thought

you

seem kind of inexperienced, though that's mostly the way you put no fucking effort into anything and don't seem to be able to do things like use bbc tags correctly.

Also, are you posting from your phone?
Or are you going out of your way to be extra awful? I'll forgive "cos". I'd even forgive that you generally have no grammar. But you'd have to try extra hard to type the numeral 1 everytime you want to say "one". You're going out of your way to look stupid. Why?

also,

!!1!!!

Also, did you notice people are putting you on their scum-list? Maybe you should go annoy them instead.

[Whiskers]

strong town players do it all of the time. there are some players I can read in 1 post

Yes, but no.

There are players who

think

they can read others in one post.
Even if they can, there's

no

reason for other players to not be suspicious of them both. In fact, I'd say it's far more likely to see two scum who 100% know each other's alignments than two townies, because

townies don't know each other's roles.

So, if you can read people in from one post, I'd say,
There's a great chance of you reading them wrong and not realizing until they beat you as scum (of course, those don't count, brilliant scum play, or you have an off day, or some fluke).
There's a great chance of you thinking you can read them from one post because you go "oh they're town" and they flip town, as the majority of players would do, since the majority of players in any game are town.
There's a great opportunity for you, as scum, to claim to have read your partner as town after his first post. You're totally sure of it, because you are such an experienced mafia player!
There's a great opportunity for your friends, who know you can "read them after one post," to manipulate you into reading them as town after one post, thereby gaining a lovely white-knight for the rest of the game.

But please, bring me examples of you having read people after one post. No doubt you'll prove me wrong in the end.

[Whiskers]

dear mollie:
"skelda always looks this scummy!"

((Nacho, can you explain this to me? I don't get the joke))

[Whiskers]

answer not good enough try again what is your dealio

It's because you're annoying as fuck.
Maybe I'll build an actual case on you someday.

Whiskers, my understanding is that because you are not good at reading people, you think no-one is. You're completely wrong.

No. I'm not good at reading people, but townies do not know the alignments/roles of other players, because that's the whole point of the game. You can read people, but [any of my previous posts].

If you have someone else's role PM, in addition to your own, that's information that might be useful to the town-- or at least, you should tell us you have, instead of just acting suspicious.

[Whiskers]

@ nacho

I don't think scum desp would push me either but I also expect to him to be able to read me a bit better as town. matt, wis are solid town reads, arc has slipped a bit and mala is unsure. I think shos looks like pondscum but I thought that in sabotage too. I will lay off whiskers for now but jesus christ don't let her skate.

eta: xposts

So let me see if I've got this right:
Desp - null, should be reading you as town no matter alignment.
MattP - Town. Very vocal and largely unanimous townread.
Wisdom - Town. Very vocal and largely unanimous townread.
Arc - null, some support for his lynch but not enough to state an outright scumread without looking bad.
Mala - null, some scumreads, some townreads, but not enough for a confident scumread without looking bad.
shos - scum, everybody thinks he's scum, pretty much, especially buddies MattP and Wisdom. Also, "I might be wrong," so none of the blame can go to you when he flips the wrong way.
Whiskers - null. Scum, but not enough support for a lynch, so you can't well voice your unpopular opinion any longer. It could get you into trouble.

[Whiskers]

If Whiskers was scum he would not point out that I'm giving him preferential treating for behaviors I'm picking at Shos for. End of story.

Yeah... tbh, I would. I'd use it against you and try to get you mislynched for it.
When I

wouldn't

do it is when we were

both

scum together.

[Whiskers]

I'd use it against you later. Just because you wouldn't be lynched

now

doesn't mean you could never be lynched.

[Whiskers]

Because really the only time the chair is posted is when she's town. I mean she might do it as scum, but I have never seen it before in the games she's played with me.

So, there's no reason for her not to do it as scum.
It would be playing to her town meta and make her look townier, in a time when her alignment is doubtful.
The previous is so true, that it strengthened your town read on her.
Hnnng, so there are lots of reasons why she

would

do it as scum.

It's WIFOMy, and also null.

[Whiskers]

EBWOP: not "lots of reasons," more like "a very big reason."

[Whiskers]

She has reasons that she could do it as scum sure. One for WIFOM is correct, but she

is

playing to her town meta before

before

the chair. So her using it to make her look townier in my "eyes" isn't a factor so not sure why you are using this as an argument against me.

I'm not using it as an argument against

you

. I'm using it as an argument against the idea that it should make it more town, or possibly, by extension, an argument against

her

.

Remind me what it is about her play here that's to her town meta, please. I say "remind" because I'm pretty sure you already mentioned this. A Quote of your own post would suffice.

[Whiskers]

matt am I allowed to talk to you this game or are there rules

What does this mean, even?

Pirate Mollie is super scum or super new noobie noob?

Can't tell.

oh look some1 I have never played before thinks I am scum. I am shocked I tell you simply shocked

Also, this post is kind of great. It tells me that this has happened before. It tells me that people who have never played with you before, read you as scum, even when you're town. Meaning, even your town play is scummy.
And you're so proud of that!
It means that, you rely on players you have a history with, to come in and townread you-- based on meta, nothing more-- and save you. It means you can't hold your own. It means that, Oh My God,

You Suck

.
And you're so proud of it.
That's why "I hate you," hun. You're smug and sarcastic, but without the skill, or at least the luck, there's no reason to keep you around.

[Whiskers]

Yes it's an argument against me because you are trying to discredit my town read on her.

Ok, well, the connotation is that I'm attacking you, which I'm not. You can't argue that, I am not attacking you. I am saying that, this thing that's making you read her as

"Even MORE Town!!"

shouldn't. Because it's null. That's why I'm "using it as an argument against you."

Also,

Remind me what it is about her play here that's to her town meta, please. I say "remind" because I'm pretty sure you already mentioned this. A Quote of your own post would suffice.

[Whiskers]

Just read up.

Seeing Mollie as town which is my first town read.

So, this is the first place you townread Mollie, I assume based on meta, since you really haven't given any explanation for it here (or after, you just keep going, "oh, she's more town now," or "Oh wow, now she's even More town!", and meta seems to be the theme of the game.

So let's look at her posts up until this point.
post 24, Introduction post. Like an RVS, you get one.
post 25, More introduction. I'll even be generous and let it slide, since it's the next consecutive post in the game.

what do you think of your wagon

Wow, great question! In Wisdom all but dismisses it. Either that was a satisfying answer, or Mollie forgot she asked? Or it was one of those "just for show" questions. She'd rather post,

post 31, where she uses emoticons and shit to blow off my assertion that she's going to be terrible.

lot of known faces...

hey mattp, long time..

aww...my dear mollie is here I also think Nacho is scum, he cheated me on the other game. lets lynch him first. Wisdom can wait.

VOTE: Nacho

okay!

VOTE: nacho

Erm... I'll call this RVS? Although, now I wonder why you didn't vote Wisdom, since he was being wagonned in RVS, and considering you said you didn't like him being so calm. So yeah, no reason for you to have not voted him, but whatever.

post 43, Here you agree with Nacho, saying, Yeah, you thought he'd be more reactive. Again, why don't you vote him if he's acting strangely?

post 44,Ok so, this is interesting. Apparently it's in Wisdom's town meta to flail, but when Nacho even brings up the fact that he was voted, it

so

defensive, and totally suspicious. Right?

post 45, Lol. This is where my suspicions are really confirmed, imo-- you're terrible. This and post 71. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but when I saw this initially, and, hell, still-- when I see this, it looks like you're voting me because I left the thread for an hour. I've seen this kind of behaviour before from noobs from other sites, who expect the game to go by much,

much

faster than it really does.

post 46, Mollie townreads Arc. Why? No one knows.

post 61, post 63, and post 65, Mollie says Wisdom's passiveness is "freaking her out" and uses Wisdom's meta to say how weird it is that he's so passive. of course, still no votes. Why?

cos I don't want to

cool.
And I know, I know, I know I don't know her meta. But this is town? Like, this is how

anyone

plays? This is totally anti-town.

why are you asking me this vapid question as if you don't know me

And she's proud of it.

post 68, votes me.

its been an hour

See above.
post 72, the address to her last post.

VOTE: Whiskers

who are you

What do I say about this?

What do I say about

most

of these? pirate mollie's town meta is to be useless and anti-town? Cool. Cool. Let me just--

Unvote

There. There we go. There. Cool.

[Whiskers]

So I notice, there's a lot of short posts, a lot of consecutive posts, also a lot of useless posts... the only posts worth anything, IMO, were #43 and #63.

How is this telling? How is it even telling, as far as meta goes? Like, how can you look at these posts and say, "Oh yeah. ScumMollie would

never

be an insufferable, apathetic, player." Or are you seeing it and going, "ScumMollie would

definitely

vote her scumreads!" or "ScumMollie always plays protown"??

Yeah, Mollie. I want to see some games where you've correctly, confidently read a player after one post of theirs, using meta tells alone.

[Whiskers]

except here is the thing: I think you are an alt. apparently an alt with a problem with me.

OMG LOOOOOL.

THIS is why I think you're a noob.

Also you have no idea how fun this was to read, although it could be partially because it's 6 AM and I haven't slept.

Man, the last person to tell me I was an alt... Jeez, I don't even remember who it was. Someone in pretty much exactly your position.

there is no way you would get this from this game alone.

Smarter than I look, eh?

wtf mebbe

I[/v] should be the 1 to replace out wis and matt are already getting paranoid about me

Ah yes, the appeal to emotion, in which, "If you scum read me, I'll just quit!"

[Whiskers]

You have not answered my question.

I answered you the first time. Here:

shos, you are obvious scum, I don't need to say anything. I will, if people are stupid, but I don't think it will be needed.

Hi, I'm stupid. Could you please give some sort of reasoning for a case on shos?
I know how infuriating it is to be lynched for no clear reason. Even if you don't want ScumShos to have an opportunity to defend himself (which is what you're doing, taking away his chance to defend himself), it's kind of common courtesy to help him figure out what he did wrong.

Speaking of which, shos-- remember that bit I had earlier? With Nacho and his Wisdom-tell? The one where he said townWisdom should be flailing... Yeah, don't do that. Since there

is

no case on you, your best shot at surviving Day 1 is

not

sitting around going, "WHY MEEEEE," it's providing useful content and pro-town posts, despite the very real possibility that you'll be lynched. Remember: if you're town, you still win with the town, even after death, so help us out while you still can. Help us out as a soon-to-be-confirmed townie.

[Whiskers]

i answered you that the answer is that i dont wanna answer

change that to "I don't need to lose my time quoting all your posts and showing how you're scum when it's obvious", and it's accurate.

If your time is so valuable to you, that it can't be spared on playing the game, then don't sign up for the game. Or, since you've already signed up for the game and are now in the middle of it, replace out.

[Whiskers]

OK? Because seriously, you've now had three players come up and say, "Hey, what's the case on this guy? What's scummy about him?" and you've not shown us a thing.

[pre-edit]

Could you please give some sort of reasoning for a case on shos?

k
For starters, he's not scumhunting and he does not have anything resembling a scumread (besides the one on myself, which is ridiculous).
Is that enough for you?

No, not really. For more players doing this, see Mawlie, ArcAngel. shos is expecting standard mafia play-- you accuse someone, make a case on them, and then talk it out. You're not providing that, so he's whining. That's human nature. There are three courses of action: 1, you make a case on him, and he'll talk about that. He, like all mafia-players, wants to talk about himself and will want to take care of disarming the case against him

immediately

. 2, you drop the case on him, in which case he'll dick around for maybe an IRL day, and then start doing more-useful things. 3, you'll continue on as you have done, and he'll continue to whine, until the Day-phase ends and fewer and fewer people are willing to put up with the minor annoyance. And sure, you'll get him lynched this way, but by no means through clever scumhunting, and not because you convinced the other townies. It will be because there are no other leads (you and he wasted this Day, when you could have been useful), and will push through the easiest lynch. And it will be a slow and tedious Day-phase.

You have this wrong impression that everyone will play the way you want. It's terribly wrong, I'm afraid.

No.
Fucking, no. Ok? Stop telling me what impressions I have. You're fucking wrong. Stop putting words into my mouth. Go die.

[Whiskers]

That was another [pre-edit], btw. That's three posts for the price of one!`

[Whiskers]

Please, you won't teach me mafia theory.

Perish the thought.
I'm just worried that what you're doing isn't going to find the scum. Nobody can double-check, because you can't be assed to make a case or have any sort of real argument. And you're not convincing people to lynch your scumread, because you're doing nothing

to

convince them.

Argh. It's going to come down to "we've got nobody else so let's lynch shos" and it's going to be boring as hell. Whatever. When he flips town, because you're playing a solo game, expect me to use it to discredit you at every opportunity.

[Whiskers]

Dear shos: attack somebody.

[Whiskers]

because you're playing a solo game

How the fuck am I playing a solo game when there are like 5 people agreeing with me?

Agreeing with... what? As there appears to be nothing to agree with, this should set off big, red, throbbing, warning flags.

And wow, first you dislike when I work with Matt and then you dislike when I "work solo", as you put it. Is there a way I can play that I can satisfy your desires?

Because basically the same thing is going on. You're playing in a way that's useful to you and to nobody else. Even if you claim to be getting reads, who else is getting reads from you and MattP having ridiculous reaction-test battles that seem to go nowhere and end after five posts, or afterward, from treating each other like confirmed town? Who else is getting reads from you

not

attacking shos?

Well... arguably, I am. I'm reading these things and saying, possibly wrongly, "Ah, MattP and Wisdom know each other's alignment; they must be scum," and "Wisdom just keeps repeating 'because he's scum', he must not have a case on shos; Wisdom is pushing a lynch based on nothing; that is anti-town behaviour; Wisdom is scum." But that's not the kind of read I mean.

And you know what?

This

one I think

is

a difference in playstyle. I expect you to be, idk, transparent, to an extent. I expect you to have some basis for your attacks and for you to share that info with the rest of the town. I expect you to have more on your major scum-spect than "C'mon guys. GUYS. C'MON." I expect you to want other players to share your reads, and I expect you to try to persuade them. But you're not really doing that-- you only did that with MattP. I

expect

you to do it with

everybody

. I don't understand why you don't, I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't,

[Whiskers]

what I am confused about is this insistence that I am a newb when you can click on my wiki and see the 60 something games I have played on here. it is fucking bizarre.

Experience =/= skill.
Experience =/= maturity.
I don't mean that you are

new

, or a

"newb"

by the strictest definition of the word. I mean that you are a

noob

,

From the Urban Dictionary:
[quote="Urban Dictionary, "Noob", entry 1"]A. INTRO
II. Defining 'Noob'
Contrary to the belief of many, a noob/n00b and a newbie/newb are not the same thing. Newbs are those who are new to some task* and are very beginner at it, possibly a little overconfident about it, but they are willing to learn and fix their errors to move out of that stage. n00bs, on the other hand, know little and have no will to learn any more. They expect people to do the work for them and then expect to get praised about it, and make up a unique species of their own. [/quote]

[Whiskers]

note to self:
read http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5502557 later.

[Whiskers]

^Keep in mind, Confirmation bias.

[Whiskers]

:/

wis... You are mala, I am you.

"What's wrong with

shos

whiskers?"
"meh."
"God damn it, why won't you help??"

[Whiskers]

ArcAngel9

, is there a mechanical reason you're not posting much?

[Whiskers]

How? I am asking you to read Whiskers and you tell me "it looks like his town game and one post like his scum game".

That's helpful? Comment on his content, comment on his exchange with mollie, comment on his exchanges with me. You have seen the guy in another game.

You don't need to have "Seen this guy in other games" to do any of those things. Why ask Mala, specifically?

Actually, nevermind, I think I know the answer.

[Whiskers]

Yeah okay. I have interacted with most of the active players besides {Whiskers/Nacho}. I am chasing my strongest scum read, but that means nothing to you, apparently. This is Penguin's scum game, but you're not seeing it. As I stated last time I chased her when she was scum she shrughed me off very similar to what's she's doing now. She's not posting, but coasting. This IS her scum game. When she was town and I did go after she reacted differently. She was engaging most of the players and this game she is not doing that at all. Plus I noticed in her town game she moves her votes around faster than she does in her scum games. All of which she's not doing.

Yeah see,
You're losing the Whiskers vote on this one because your case is, "meta, meta." If all you have are meta tells, it's not a case I'm interested in falling for, especially not on Day 1. From the look of what you said here, you

should

be able to just go, "She's lurking", simple as that, and then go "ergo, she's scum." Which isn't really a strong case either, but it's stronger than "Meta, lol," which is maybe not exactly what you're saying, but it's exactly what I'm reading in your posts.




In other words, this.

While I don't disagree with the meta itself; why are you not waiting for her to actually post, but instead are encouraging people to speedlynch her? Why do you rule out that she is just inactive for her own reasons and jump to the conclusion she is inactive because she is scum?

[Whiskers]

And since there

weren't

another seven pages today, I suppose I'll ask this instead:
Wisdom, why now,

not

shos? I know there was a big block in there that I didn't really comprehend, but why is it a penguin lynch, instead of a shos lynch?

[Whiskers]

There wasn't a single thing in your catchup that offered anything insightful or clever in thought. Everything was too straightforward, and that means to me that you're not really thinking too hard.

Idk, mate. She gave me some stuff that I thought was useful-- and this isn't stuff I just agree with or stuff I've heard before. I've taken all that out. This is, IMO, new. Or at least, things I missed. Or, things I've said but I can't recall anypony else saying.

I'm not getting 'scum' from the

shos

ISO. Reading through his posts, I find myself nodding along.

Desperado

's willing to engage with mollie over the weak Whiskers scum read and tells Wisdom off. I disagree about shos, but I think he has a point with mollie.

Mala

isn't town interacting with other people's reads.

MattP

, still don't see him laying out anything that convinces me shos is even scummy, let alone scum.

Mirari

, -snip-

where it takes more than one post for Mirari to explain why ooba votes are bad. It's not helpful and reads as artificial to me.
-snip-
This is odd. You don't mention Mala that I can find anywhere else before this in your postings, yet suddenly her being on my wagon makes it so much better. And to say that she's 'on my wagon' is a mild way of putting it; she's been on my wagon forever pushing my lynch. This isn't some surprising new development that represents someone changing her mind about me.

The Whiskers conflict read as a good way for

mollie

to kill time. The chair discussion also seems null. Yes, I've seen town-mollie pull it out, but I certainly wouldn't draw conclusions from it, given that the goal of the game as scum is to play a town game in any aspects that don't damage your team's chances. The chair pic falls under that category.

[Whiskers]

@Malakittens

, are we going to have to lynch [you/peng] today? Is it going to end up as a 1/1? Is that what you're hoping?

[Whiskers]

Ok, I read about half of this post. Almost half. After that, I didn't care anymore, because it was another god damn catchup following points I

don't

care about.

But I do need to comment on something.

Fuck this game.. Go slow damit.. I am 20 pages behind to catch up..

are you fucking kidding me?

20 pages behind on page 34? that's like a minute past RVS. I've done this before, we can force-replace you in need. either get the fuck working on this game this sunday or switch the fuck out.

/sorry for being rude btw I'm alittle angry at lurkers lately

No.
No, you may

not.

You are

eight

pages behind. Most of the substance you've posted has been catchups, iirc. That's super easy to fake as scum. And you've been at to date recently, so you shouldn't be behind this much. I'm reading from this, that you're waiting, holding back, until you're behind-- So you can do a big long catchup. And in that catchup, you call out somebody else for being behind? No.

Another issue worth noting? Everybody

else

was out of RVS by like, page 5.

Anyway,

vote: shos

I'll probably move my vote later, but I'm kind of tired of all of *gesticulates grandly* this.

[Whiskers]

I'll probably move my vote later

Why?

Because I am a huge faogt.


...Ok, actually because I don't really have a strong case on him

either

, and feel like I shouldn't be voting someone who is very likely to be lynched, if I don't have a case I feel is strong enough to warrant lynching him.

But jesus christ.

Hypocrisy at best, scum hypocrisy at worst.

Actually, incredible idiocy and blind, unknowing hypocrisy at worst. Nevertheless,

[Whiskers]

I'm inactive on weekends.

Post 1023, your big wall, was on a friday.

it's simple.

---

Ok, it's not that simple. I went and actually FOUND this,

I have lots of things to read now and not too much time, and I wanna do it today so that tomorrow I can comment from work. so pardon me ignoring current activity and going 7-8 pages back.

Which means I misread you. You were not behind 7-8 pages, correct? You were just re-reading part of the game, starting 7-8 pages from the end?

[Whiskers]

I can't quite make out what you said.
I mean, most of the words are there, but some of them don't make sense in context, and there's a particular verb I'm not getting.

[Whiskers]

What

I

want to know, is why you didn't answer any of

these

,

Spoiler:

along with I'm only willing to hammer Wisdom

That's not what he said, he said that if someone puts me to L-1, he will hammer.

Why didn't you ask me about that earlier?

I didn't care about it, I found it stupid and I had better things to care about. But now you keep repeating it in your attempts to justify your reads, which is bullshit.

I'm aware Shos has been buddying Grim.

You said they both were hardbuddying each other, so no, you are not aware.

The wagon on Shos built a built quicker than I expected which leads to me that Shos could be town.

The speed of a wagon has no bearing on the wagonee's alignment. Find better excuses.

So having a Peng flip would give me more information on others players.

So now it's an information lynch? I thought you were just sure that penguin is scum. You can't even be consistent.

It's not "typical" bullshit scum make up. This is how I form some of my reads early in Day 1; I have been known to do it with some of my hydras and sometimes my partners don't even understand. It's just how I think; how I play; how I hunt. If that makes me sound scum so be it, but that's my thoughts on the process of the Shos-wagon.

It is. "hey guys it cant be scum-scum, it must be town-scum, and this one is the scum, lets lynch". Forced conclusions based on nothing that scum make up all the time.

Any why, despite not answering them, Wisdom unvoted you. Meta, I'm sure.
But I want Malakittens to answer

first

, then Wisdom.
Not, of course, that Malakittens actually does answer most of the stuff addressed to her.

[Whiskers]

Yeah, actually. My thoughts were that I was no longer voting/bullying mollie, and so she popped up from her absence and stopped OMGUSing me.

My thoughts currently are approximately the same, except I wasn't voting her, and iirc she was on V/LA. Regardless, it's an odd time to come back into the thread (and confirms to me that it was OMGUS vote, not a scumlynching vote).
It's a good ol' scum move-- you're getting too much heat? Step away from the thread for a couple of days and let the attention slip onto somebody else. What's more, I suspect mollie is hoping I'll work my magic on shos, pretty much bringing whatever is left of the game to bear on him, and ultimately pushing his wagon through.
That's why it's "interesting," with a vote. She wants to see his wagon through.

Of course, I can't prove any of that.

Btw, I'm pretty sure that puts shos at L-1.

[Whiskers]

It's L-2 by my count.

Sigh.

Opportunity: lost.

But that's interesting, I have a different theory. She is going to support your vote was a bussing vote and push you after shos flips scum. Knowing mollie, that "interesting" was "I caught your buddy". Whether it's scum mollie bussing shos or town mollie continuing to be stuck I'm not completely sure, but I'm leaning towards the former.

Might have been useful to have asked

her

about this, since if y'do now, she can basically copy and paste this post as an answer.

oh baby oh. you caught on to my seekrit plans

wis there are no words

Oh shut the fuck up. You're insufferable.
Seriously, god forbid I should have thoughts or ideas? And under no circumstances should I have answered a question posed to me by another player! What the hell is your problem? Your posts aren't even game related-- this should have been a refutation from you-- they're just you, being an annoying cunt. Go away.

[Whiskers]

penguin, what do you think of the mollie/shos connections I've pointed out?

Can you summarize these for me? If you want to wait until penguin has answered your question (if you feel it would have some bearing on the answer), that's ok. But

I'm

not sure what you're talking about.

[Whiskers]

How can you not know? One is what I just told you, mollie bussing shos and hoping to frame you as the partner.

Yeah, but, your post didn't suggest that. Your post suggested she thought

I

was bussing shos. With a possibility that she would also bus shos and blame it on me.

Idk... I guess I took away a different message.

[Whiskers]

btw mollie didn't deny my theory, but only said I am wrong about her being scum, so I guess we can treat it as a fact.

pedit: It's that and 678/680.

Why do you think shos is town? :/ He doesn't make any sense as town.

Also, 678/680 doesn't make a whole lot of actual sense.

I'm getting a feeling there's some confirmation bias going on here, too but.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, why'd you stop being hostile?

Hmm?

[Whiskers]

Post 1067.

[Whiskers]

Interesting Fact #12: Dionysus took Hestia's throne at Mount Olympus.

That's because she wasn't using it properly.

Interesting Fact #11: Hestia is the only Olympian for whom no myths were created.

sheesh.

Looks like our scumteam is shaping up to be Hestia and her fanclub.

[Whiskers]

Post 1067.

I missed that, but I was having this thought last night. Your meanness has significantly decreased.

But I guess it was just a little subconscious phase. How disappointing. I thought it would have been a pretty towny thing to change after:

post

Without even bringing it up. Because following that post you immediately cut down the 'tude.

Why that particular post? Would it have been less towny to have changed before that post was made?

I don't get angry for the fun of it. Usually the meanness is accompanied by frustration. Though, the bit where I took one of Mollie's posts and explained to her how I could infer from it that she was awful, that was not out of frustration, and it was extremely satisfying.
But yeah, for the most part, I don't antagonize a pony just because she happens to be nearby.

[Whiskers]

I meant after this post for you, Whiskers. 767 was for PM.

Ah, that makes a bit more sense.

No, this is my first time reading that post-- or at least, the first time I'm comprehending any of it. I pretty much skipped over that seven pages, shortly before and a while after shos made that wallpost that I promised myself I'd read at some point.

[Whiskers]

She said shit that I sympathized with based on my experiences being wrongly tunneled. It made me feel for her. On two separate occasions.

It's possible her angle this game is to play a sad little emotional thing (which has been my angle as scum before too) but idk. I wouldn't lynch her today. I wouldn't even get close to considering it assuming her play is consistently at the level it currently is.

..What the fuck?
So now we're buying into AtE? Really?

Also, it really pisses me off to consider that someone that's scum that another player is beginning to tunnel for it would threaten to replace. It's such disgusting form.

Yeah, it is. Which is why it's so reprehensible that players in this game have done it. Does it make them town, to threaten to replace out? No.
Two reasons. The first reason, is that, if this were the case, it would become a towntell to threaten to replace out. And then everybody would do it.
Second reason is that,

it's no less disgusting for town to threaten to replace out, than for scum to threaten to replace out

. I don't care what alignment you are! If you do this, it reflects that you are a shitty person, or, if you don't want to go to that extent, that you are behaving in a shitty way.

[Whiskers]

I have seen people skip RVS, but I don't believe I have seen him skip it along with I'm only willing to hammer Wisdom felt to me like he had a vote restriction which then was proven wrong when he voted later in the stage. I commented on this in the early game.

This is not what mattP said. he said that if wisdom got to L-1 he would hammer. he never said that he will hammer ONLY IF IT IS WISDOM, and he never said that he is unwilling to do anything else.

Wisdom brought this up.
Post 975

for the tenth time, grim and I did not hardbuddy each other. I buddied grim in 2, 3, MAYBE 4 posts, and that was because grim was at the time the only one(except maybe wisdom) to actually follow my logic and listen and understand. he understood the logic hundreds of posts before my wall, after which everyone suddenly got it in a second. but grim never buddied me, and my buddying consisted on 2 I LUV Us and 1 OMG U SO CEULZ.

Wisdom brought this up.
Post 970

earlier you said taht we should lynch peng because it is her scum game omgwtfbbq. now you say that a peng lynch will be a good information lynch.
which is it? why do I get the feeling that you're just trying to lynch peng, no matter why/how? are you a lyncher?

Wisdom brought this up.
Post 977.

damn you wisdom for being town again. however, in one thing you are wrong: the speed in which a wagon rises and collapses is definitely not null. if you present stupid shitty reason (or none at all) to vote me and all of a sudden I'm L-1 (which has almost happened lol), then there's no way in hell that the wagon is town driven. you could be town, but either you, or the people who suddenly agree with idiotic logic, have to be scum, and that wagon is most probably on a townie. you will almost NEVER see quickwagons rise on scum, unless there's some definite proof or something unrefutable. what happened here? you said 'he is scum it is obvious' and suddenly 5 votes? do you think that makes sense?

And now, let me weigh in on this, though I know Wisdom has responded already.
There is certainly some merit to this. A wagon with no resistance necessarily has no scum resistance. If scum aren't resisting a wagon, there's a good chance the wagon is on someone they want, or don't mind seeing, lynched.

But on the flip-side,
the shos wagon

has

had some resistance. I can point at myself to support this statement, but I also remember Grimgroove is always brought up as "buddying" shos-- although, I guess I also remember that, "No, he didn't." But Grimgroove townread shos initially, right? And agreed with him on several points, right?
So... yeah. Not as if we couldn't be your scumbuddies.
To recap;
what shos says here is correct-- the speed at which a wagon builds, proportionate to the information and evidence available, can reflect on whether or not the wagon is on town. In some case.
However, this wagon did not build high enough or quickly enough for this to be one of those cases.

---

Ok tbh, let me just announce here that this started out as a post that was supposed to defend shos. All of the things I said, "Wisdom brought this up", they all could be suffixed with "And Malakittens ignored it."

[Whiskers]

so I'm removing peng from today's lynch.

Lol, as if you had any choice in the matter.

[Whiskers]

Yeah, it's really just irritating and hurtful. I don't understand that sort of behavior in games..

I don't understand behaviour like this,

oh baby oh. you caught on to my seekrit plans

wis there are no words

If she doesn't want to play, maybe she shouldn't sign up to play. Posts like this make me want to throw my laptop through the wall.

Also, let me go ahead and take this time to say,

Also, it really pisses me off to consider that someone that's scum that another player is beginning to tunnel for it would threaten to replace. It's such disgusting form.

Yeah, it is. Which is why it's so reprehensible that players in this game have done it. Does it make them town, to threaten to replace out? No.
Two reasons. The first reason, is that, if this were the case, it would become a towntell to threaten to replace out. And then everybody would do it.
Second reason is that,

it's no less disgusting for town to threaten to replace out, than for scum to threaten to replace out

. I don't care what alignment you are! If you do this, it reflects that you are a shitty person, or, if you don't want to go to that extent, that you are behaving in a shitty way.

Yeah, this? I know this was originally about Mala. But my response was written originally with Mollie in mind-- this draft I posted is a very tuned-down version of that original post.
I really really really really really really really

hate

pirate mollie's style of not-playing.

oh baby oh. you caught on to my seekrit plans

It makes me want to hurt her.

This wasn't even necessary. She didn't need to post it. It had no relevance to the game. I wasn't talking to her, I was answering a question. She didn't refute, she didn't even discredit. She just posts, in the least-readable way possible. It is incredibly stressful to have in my,

MY

game. If I can hurt her back by calling her mean names, then that'll have to do, won't it?
I stand by my word choice. And I don't expect you to like it. But you had sure as hell better understand why.

[Whiskers]

By now i already hav. It doesnt cssy you are town. It says thatyour lay sucks snd itscreally hardvto reaf yiu.

Stop.
Stop.
Just stop it.
Stop.
Wait until you can post at a computer, or can be assed to spell correctly, or use t9, or SOMETHING.

I can't read these posts. Not, "I'm having trouble reading these posts," but, "you're not posting words."

Same thing goes for when you're too smashed to try spelling. Just stop, and wait. Write yourself a note if you have to. Posts like this aren't doing anybody any good.

[Whiskers]

Wisdom, can you link me a game where scumMala does what you describe her doing in 1116? If you can bring me a nice example or two, I'll sheep you there.

[Whiskers]

You think I tried to get a townread on my scumbuddy with her threat to replace out?

You wouldn't have gotten a townread from somebody threatening to replace out in any

other

case.

[Whiskers]

Le sigh

Wow, good refutation!

Let me just go ahead and ignore everything you say from here on out.

[Whiskers]

blargh.

evreybody is just so wrong sometimes.

i want to point out all the wrong but there;s jsut too much

i will let them just eat each other apart.

[Whiskers]

But I don't like at all how you try to argue that I am tunneling, especially when you've seen me being right about Mala before. If anything, you are the one who is unreasonably convinced that Mala must be town.

Grim might just be right about you being her buddy.

9__9



Sorry hun, but this

really, really

reads as, "You disagree with me? You suggest I might be tunneling? SCUM! YOU ARE THE SCUM!!"

[Whiskers]

Seriously, she is pushing penguin, right? She is like 100% sure penguin is scum. penguin posts a wall after days of inactivity, and

Mala completely ignores it and responds to completely irrelevant things (that might hurt her image if she didn't)

. Then after I prod her and ask her why she is not responding to it, she decided to do so.

Why are you ignoring this? Why the hell would she not respond to it the first chance she got?

I do have to ask though, why is [other parts of the game], including [the wagon/attack on her] "completely irrelevant? Mala is only allowed to talk about the scumread she's tunneling? Er...

I didn't expect a town reaction because her doing nothing was already something not town.

Ah, I see.
Confirmation bias.

Gotcha!

[Whiskers]

Since I have reminded her twice that her ignoring me is a scumtell, she did not have that option.

Doesn't matter. The tell you're using is,

Mala scum ignores Wisdom.

What occured (according to MattP) is,

]Mala did not ignore Wisdom.

ergo, Mala is not scum, right?

Reminding her that it's a scumtell doesn't matter. She

knows

it's a scumtell. Why wouldn't she have kept on ignoring you then?

The matter is, was she ignoring you, or not?

[preedit]

Good, that's how it should read. I don't like people unreasonably disagreeing with me.

It's not unreasonable. Also, this is threatening. I think there's a mafia-lingo term for it but I don't remember atm.

[preedit]

I do have to ask though, why is [other parts of the game], including [the wagon/attack on her] "completely irrelevant? Mala is only allowed to talk about the scumread she's tunneling? Er...

Because when you are town, priority is catching scum. When you are scum, priority is maintaining a good image so you don't get lynched.

I'm pretty sure you know this isn't true. If people think you're scum, they won't listen to you. If people don't

like

you, they won't listen to you. If you have a "bad image," then you get lynched. When you are lynched, you can not catch scum.

[Whiskers]

when you are scum, and make cases or something, you need to fabricate stuff. fake stuff.

Incorrect.

scum HAVE to fake. this is just scum behaviour.

INCORRECT!!

Actually, there's some truth to the first one. You do need to fabricate stuff to make cases. As town, because you have a very small amount of information. As scum, because you have to pretend you're town.

[Whiskers]

What is Wisdoms case against Mala?

The thing you've just been discussing with him?

Mmm, so you don't

know

. . .

It amazes me that the case that is being peddled around right now is "townies don't need to be prodded they produce content by themselves" with an AA9 in the mix.

AA9 has just replaced out. this si null.

No, it's not.

. <----------------------- the point





<---------------------- you

[Whiskers]

Grim, what is Wisdom's case on Mala? Summarize it for me, please.

Puppetmaster, you have much to learn. If you want the puppets to dance, give them a pleasant tune.
In other words: Your boring request is denied. Wisdom just summarized it himself, do you want me to copy-paste it, or what?

I have my own aerguments against MAlakittens. Wouldn't it be more interesting to have me rehash those instead?

Please, allow me:

meta meta meta meta meta meta

Also, remind me to attack penguin's wall, since it's apparently

so hard

to do. Nitpicking is my speciality, so if it

can

get wrecked, I'll be the one to do it.

[Whiskers]

I like you guys.
I get to feel all revengy about mollie, and I don't even have to call her any body parts.

Of course, this also means that I get nightkilled tonight, so

[Whiskers]

Did you all suffer a collective stroke?

*snicker*

[Whiskers]

I'm not getting 'scum' from the shos ISO. Reading through his posts, I find myself nodding along.

Yeah, that's because they're all catchups and he's basically surface reading and repeating what everybody else has already thought. The fact that you came

even later

to the party does not make his posts good, nor does it make them hard for scum to have written out.
Refuted.

Wisdom looks town, mostly because it seems like he can't help himself as town from tunneling, being fixated on his reads, and generally not changing his game overmuch. Not what I saw from scum-Wisdom in Newbie 1448.

However, he said he was changing his playstyle for this game. Hm, Wis-scum playing like Wis-town? That'd be a change, eh?
But let me be a little more concrete here--

you

certainly aren't-- just because Wisdom is doing inherently scummy things, and its in his meta to do scummy things, does not mean Wisdom is town. Same thing with Malakittens (I'm pretty sure it was her who said that (We've played together in the past)). Same thing, this game, with mollie (who says, "people who don't know my meta scumread me all the time").
Refuted.

GG is paranoid and suspicious.

Oh, so town? Seems to me that town, being the uninformed majority,

needs

to be both paranoid, and suspicious.
But I'm reading that wrong. You don't mean suspicious of

other players

, you mean that you are suspicious of

him

, right? Why?

Not looking for the easy buddy with shos, and he's not afraid to tangle with Nacho. His refutation of the 'Mala goes and looks up Actor to see if that could be MattP's role' supposed town tell is in line with my opinion as well.

...ok, I understood you right the first time, I guess. I rescind my snark pertaining to this portion of the wall.

Whiskers is town. Sorry, but scum don't see someone with an emotional playstyle and say, 'gee, let's push that person's buttons for funsies.'

What? Why wouldn't they? That's incredibly fun (see also: trolling, griefing), and when you're a pretty-much-unanimous townread (whiskers seems to be) what would stop you?
Refuted.

AA9 is saying all the town-AA9 things, but in a game like this where she knows a decent number of people, I'd expect the interactive part of her style to be more front-and-center. Heaven knows I get being behind, but it's a drastic falloff. On the other hand, her defensiveness about it is townish, so I'd let it slide pending further info.

I don't recall any defensiveness about it. In fact,
I just looked up his ISO. you

must

be referring to this post, because in all ten of his posts, this is the only one where he's defensive, and the only one where he's responding to somebody calling him out on being behind.
So... wtf are you on about, P_A?
Refuted.

Desperado's willing to engage with mollie over the weak Whiskers scum read and tells Wisdom off. I disagree about shos, but I think he has a point with mollie.

It's interesting-- I know I'm reading this way later than you wrote it. But in the last couple of pages, three or four other people have told mollie off over the weak whiskers scum read.
Err, I'm blending points.

Nevermind, I'm just going to move on here.

Mala thinking that MattP would indicate his role so early on looks like hopeful scum. I don't think that Mala would pull any fake emotional stuff, so I think her frustration with Wisdom is genuine.

You're kidding, right? I'm pretty sure Mala uses AtE consistently and without remorse.
Also, Mala thinking outside the box is null, at worst, and town, at best. Look, there's this stupid thing that we do here in the game of mafia, where we sometimes thing that Scum is playing brilliantly, and if you are playing brilliantly, you must be scum. No. Players play brilliantly, as town

or

scum. When you can do something brilliant as scum, why

wouldn't

you want to do it as town?
Also, if she was correct, and Matt could only place the hammering vote on a wagon, then yes, it's something that Matt would have crumbed early on.

Seems easy enough to attack so far. But I haven't really moved into the meat of the thing, have I-- the Mala-case.

[Whiskers]

okay I don't want to lynch whiskers anymore

Too wordy for you?

[Whiskers]

okay I don't want to lynch whiskers anymore

Let me rephrase my last post:

Why did you want to lynch Whiskers before, and what changed between then and now, that makes you no longer want to lynch Whiskers?

[Whiskers]

havingfitz replaces ArcAngel9.
Welcome!

Oh, cool!
I've also played with fitz before.

Shit, somebody get RBD in here.

[Whiskers]

okay I don't want to lynch whiskers anymore

Let me rephrase my last post:

Why did you want to lynch Whiskers before, and what changed between then and now, that makes you no longer want to lynch Whiskers?

you were actually cogent for once

Right but I want to know what changed since then.

[Whiskers]

-snip-

^this post

Ok well, let me reiterate that you're clearly stupid.

That post was, frankly, filler. It was me being contrary for the sake of it. I argued with things I don't care about, things that have no bearing on the game.

So basically, you just want me to contribute more non-game-related material. Or how else should I interpret this?

[Whiskers]

okay I don't want to lynch whiskers anymore

who do you want to lynch

I still want to lynch whiskers for being a creepy stalker but gun to my head I would say penny over mala

And yet, let's look at your votes:

Spoiler:

lot of known faces...

hey mattp, long time..

aww...my dear mollie is here I also think Nacho is scum, he cheated me on the other game. lets lynch him first. Wisdom can wait.

VOTE: Nacho

okay!

VOTE: nacho

VOTE: whiskahz

VOTE: whiskahz

I have never ever seen ooba troll before. ever

VOTE: ooba

VOTE: whiskers

sorry wis I think she is faking it. it is a new fad for scum to fake meltdowm over nothing and say they hate you for it.

Ok, I read about half of this post. Almost half. After that, I didn't care anymore, because it was another god damn catchup following points I

don't

care about.

But I do need to comment on something.

Fuck this game.. Go slow damit.. I am 20 pages behind to catch up..

are you fucking kidding me?

20 pages behind on page 34? that's like a minute past RVS. I've done this before, we can force-replace you in need. either get the fuck working on this game this sunday or switch the fuck out.

/sorry for being rude btw I'm alittle angry at lurkers lately

No.
No, you may

not.

You are

eight

pages behind. Most of the substance you've posted has been catchups, iirc. That's super easy to fake as scum. And you've been at to date recently, so you shouldn't be behind this much. I'm reading from this, that you're waiting, holding back, until you're behind-- So you can do a big long catchup. And in that catchup, you call out somebody else for being behind? No.

Another issue worth noting? Everybody

else

was out of RVS by like, page 5.

Anyway,

vote: shos

I'll probably move my vote later, but I'm kind of tired of all of *gesticulates grandly* this.

interesting

VOTE: shos

GG's 1200 is pretty muc similar to what I just posted.

mollie's vote in 1030 makes me wonder. Mollie, explain this.
*snip*
coming to think about it, I have something to say about mollie's vote on me. sure, pres, but I want mollie to answer before I say it out loud.

Mollie, you're here. do tell.

Nacho, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I agree with wisdom. I would also like to add, on the ignoring bit: see whiskers' post somewhere about how I parrotted/said the same thing/repeated/posted again things against mala. at first I thought whiskers was mocking me for my catchup as not being genuine, but then he added that 'these are all things that have been said AND have been ignored by mala'. Do you, as town, ignore so many things that are directed at you?

@post 1208 and 1211: no. we prodded mala like a thousand times. townies don't need a prod to do that. we told her she did nothing so she did something? how bout replace it with a timeline:
1. X says mala does nothing. 2. Y says so. 3. Z. 4. A. 5. B. 6. X. 7. X. 8. B etc etc until 123123123. Mala posts a readlist with short explanations.

What town reaction were you expecting?

I was expecting town ACTION. not REACTION.

shos it is by poe and I am sorry for that. will you plz look at whiskers omg I feel like I am speaking into the void.

not liking groovy kid.

VOTE: leap of faith

So... right. You prefer Penguin over Mala,

why?

And, clearly, you prefer neither, since your vote is on... um.

VOTE: leap of faith

Uh... what the fuck?

But more importantly, there's

not

a gun to your head, and we've still got quite a bit of time until deadline. Why don't you answer the question:

Who do you want to lynch?

[Whiskers]

I bet whiskers has called me stupid over 20 times and other names

and no1 but desp does anything about it

@ nacho

what is up cos you usually defend me and you are not

Maybe it's because you're not getting

any

heat or attention, except from me. Because, as Grimgroove said, "your play this game has been bad."

and you're not a threat. Just an annoyance.

Now.

Why didn't you answer my question in the post you quoted?

[Whiskers]

Her conviction

There is a clear difference in the presentation of the reads of one another between you two

It's a playstyle thing, mate. Conviction=/=accuracy.
for instance, mollie has conviction in her reads.

Of course, I see what you're saying: Mala's conviction comes from having more-current, more-intimate experience with Penguin's playstyle and thought process. Right? That makes some sense. I'm not sure how right it is, but I at least comprehend it and agree that it's reasonable.

How refreshing!

[Whiskers]

Because you just said you want to lynch her and penguin?

I never said that

fuck this wis are you scum

You did.
Here, let me quote it.

How is he retarded? He's right, you dodged my question about who you want to lynch.

no I didn't. I answered you.

So the answer is peng and mala, and among them you prefer peng?

yes

If you do

not

want to lynch mala and penguin, then

answer the question,

okay I don't want to lynch whiskers anymore

who do you want to lynch

I still want to lynch whiskers for being a creepy stalker but gun to my head I would say penny over mala

So... right. You prefer Penguin over Mala,

why?

And, clearly, you prefer neither, since your vote is on... um.

VOTE: leap of faith

Uh... what the fuck?

But more importantly, there's

not

a gun to your head, and we've still got quite a bit of time until deadline. Why don't you answer the question:

Who do you want to lynch?

I have not said this in a long time on this site but you are fucking retarded and I will vote you for being an ass

Oh wait, I forgot. I'm fucking retarded and being an ass.

Is anybody else seeing this?

Mollie, do you like chunky peanut butter?

I like jelly but if there was a gun to my head I would each chunky peanut butter.

That's stupid, you've shown no interest in chunky peanut butter before. And even now, you're licking the jelly spoon! Do you

really

like chunky peanut butter?

J33z wh1skerz u r a retarded @ss!!1!

So you

do

like chunky peanut butter. Right?

yes.

Come on mollie, have some chunky peanut butter with me!

EW WHY WULD I DO THAT I DON'T LIKE CHUNKY PEANUT BUTTER!!

But, but... you just

said

you liked it!

WOW I NEVER SAID THAT. WISDOM R U SCUM??!

[Whiskers]

Ah, I see.
Confirmation bias.

So why call out this part of the post for confirmation bias when clearly 979 of wisdom's had it all written over it?

Ok.
To me, it's a little bit different.
In 979, there's an oppourtunity for you to redeem yourself. (although reading it a fourth time, maybe I was giving Wisdom too much credit).

Here, he's just saying, "IT'S TOO LATE. SHE'S SCUM. NOTHING SHE CAN DO WILL MAKE HER SEEM MORE TOWNIE BECAUSE I'VE ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND!!!"

There, he was at least asking you for reads. *shrug*

[Whiskers]

Love mollie's town list.

Also agree with Mirari's post - except add Nacho to the town pile too.

I think penguin is our best bet for hitting scum, shos being second best
VOTE: Penguin

Could you be, uh, a lot more specific? Mollie hasn't posted reads for ages, and "Mirari's post" that you quoted didn't mention anyone being town-- or, it omitted many players from being scum, and nacho was already one of them.

Because idk if you realize, but there's been pages upon pages of play since your last post. So just saying "I like Whiskers' post." as if there has been only one is really, really useless.

[Whiskers]

hey guyz so what do you think about chicken fucking? I personally like it. the feathers feel so good against my skin. I also have the intellectual capacity of a turnip. I am in love with pirate mollie that is why I feel compelled to mention her in every single post. I wonder what mollie thinks of chicken fucking.

tmi dude tmi

This is game related, how? You're not good enough to get away with posting filler. Taking a quote, changing its content to something irrelevant, and laughing about it, is a waste of bits.

See, this is the other reason I wanted to know if you were an alt account, earlier on: You play like an alt. You play like somebody who doesn't give a shit if people don't like them, or if they get banned, because "you're just an alt" and you have a main account that you can go back to.
That's all.
Of course, I dropped it, when you said you weren't an alt.

You, on the other hand, seem to still think that I am one? Look at our join dates, hun.
Wait, wait, nvm. I realized I was trying to use my brain to forge sentences to communicate with you. And every time I do that, you ignore it entirely.

Vote: mollie

[Whiskers]

Why?

[Whiskers]

@ooba:
Also, if Nacho and Wisdom are in your "town block," what is your opinion on Malakittens? Especially considering they've been fighting over her?

[Whiskers]

CHUNKY PEANUT BUTTER!!

If you can draw the comparison between this and what was actually going on at the time, then... I'm running out of ways to say, "you're stupid." But maybe you could ask me to explain it to you. Or tell me you don't think it's game related. Or not useful. Or

something

.

Please do

something

, mollie.

[Whiskers]

*can't

[Whiskers]

Because you were instantly dislikeable. within like, two or three posts.

That doesn't matter,though. in this, just like everything else in this game, you're ignoring 60% of the evidence and information around you. And I have to assume it's because you're -- well, no, I have a couple of options here.
Either you're dumb and aren't ignoring it on purpose. You're just not seeing/understanding it.
You're ignoring it for some reason-- the guess would be that you're trying to condition people to seeing you play poorly, then one game, spring the not-dumb play on them.
You are someone's alt-- or some similar explanation. Because you're playing like an alt.
You are scum playing dumb.

I dislike you, right now, for your inability to

do

anything. For instance, wisdom asked you a question. You tried to answer it, but didn't really. When I called you out on it, you called me retarded. Wisdom said, "No, whiskers is right, you didn't answer it." You said, "Yes, I did" and the whole exchange until it ended up that Wisdom was parroting your answer back at you, and you said, "I never said that!"
That's stupid.
Or trying to look stupid.
Or not caring about looking stupid.
Or playing stupid.

[Whiskers]

I can't even call you a hypocrite cos it is what scum do

So now you worry more about your appearance than the facts?

Also, point out where I'm a hy-- actually, no.
I can refute whatever you throw at me, but you don't listen.

[Whiskers]

Wisdom, can I convince you to hop onto mollie? I mean,

everybody

hop onto her? I know Malakittens' lynch is more useful (because she has posted any content), and you're worried that scumMala will kill you in the night.

But I posit that Mala is also much more useful to the town than mollie, and alive, Mala will only be found scummy and caught later on. Because she'd have to kill both you,

and

me before she was out of danger. Mala, unless she has improved tenfold, will not get not caught as scum. And then I will blow her up.

She'll scumtell again. I want to get mollie out of my way while you still think mollie is part of the scumteam, before you change your mind again.

[Whiskers]

Whiskers, I just realized you have ignored me 100% during this game. Why?

Nothing to say, or always better things to talk about. I have townread you and scumread you. What is there to say?

[Whiskers]

Recently, I was happy about this,

pirate mollie, how would you call your own play in this game?

but less so about

What is Wisdoms case against Mala?

The thing you've just been discussing with him?

Did you ever make your post against mala or did you just respond to my town case?

I have made some posts against Mala, and my response to your MAla-towncase was one of them. I did promise a full ISO-case on her, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered anymore.

And, in fact, commented on it!

What is Wisdoms case against Mala?

The thing you've just been discussing with him?

Mmm, so you don't

know

. . .

It amazes me that the case that is being peddled around right now is "townies don't need to be prodded they produce content by themselves" with an AA9 in the mix.

AA9 has just replaced out. this si null.

No, it's not.

. <----------------------- the point





<---------------------- you

Grim, what is Wisdom's case on Mala? Summarize it for me, please.

Puppetmaster, you have much to learn. If you want the puppets to dance, give them a pleasant tune.
In other words: Your boring request is denied. Wisdom just summarized it himself, do you want me to copy-paste it, or what?

I have my own aerguments against MAlakittens. Wouldn't it be more interesting to have me rehash those instead?

Please, allow me:

meta meta meta meta meta meta

Also, remind me to attack penguin's wall, since it's apparently

so hard

to do. Nitpicking is my speciality, so if it

can

get wrecked, I'll be the one to do it.

[Whiskers]

(In 1300, the "please allow me" bit was summarizing wisdom's reasons, not rehashing yours. I just realized it might look like the wrong one.)

[Whiskers]

Huuuuungggggh. I'm sitting here moaning reading this post, moaning through all the wrong.
You start off kind of good-- and by good, I mean only "plausible," but then you just fall off a cliff into ridiculous bullshit.
I'm going to be using coloured text within your quote, instead of quote tags, since you rarely quote me back anyway.

Why Mala is scum

• She has ignored posts she should be responding to and only did so after prodded about it or didn't do it at all.
  
  It's not up to you what posts she "should" be responding to. It's her prerogative.
  
  
• She has been focusing on a single player and has done little if any scumhunting. When her one suspect posted, she didn't care about the post until later.
  
  Pretty sure this is incorrect-- The bit about "focusing on a single player." Also, why does it matter that she didn't "care" about the post until later? She was busy. "She

  should

  have cared" with no reason

  WHY

  , is still not a reason.
  
  
• She has repeatedly addressed, pointed out, or generally placed her focus on irrelevant things or things with zero value in regards to finding scum. Notably, some of those things could have some value to appearing less scummy. An example would be "I have to go see the number of the games I have with Nacho and with Wisdom". Nobody cares.
  
  Again, who is deciding what is irrelevant? Also, I'm afraid I can't let you both attack someone for "talking about irrelevant things," & fucking ignore mollie.
  Also, everybody wants to not look scummy. it's not a scumtell.
  
  
• She made a huge deal of my "tunneling" on her in the beginning of the game, back when what I was doing wasn't even remotely resembling a tunnel. She even threatened to replace out. It is completely fake if you consider that I have never tunneled on her before when she was town. I have tunneled on her twice when she was scum.
  
  She made a big deal about how you tunnel and how it's unfun. It was preemptive. It was, "Don't you dare START tunneling me"
  
  Also, completely irrelevant is the fact that you've tunneled her before, and what alignment she is. It is something that YOU are doing, is not a tell on HER. That would be like saying, "I only get do a funny dance when malakittens is town. Look, I'm not doing a funny dance!"
  
  It is not indicative of jack shit.
  
  
  
• Her "I thought MattP is an Actor" thing is out of character for her and looks fake. Imo, this even looks like it was pre-planned by a scumpartner, especially considering Matt's reply to it. But that's speculation. The point is it's fake.
  
  You don't know this, unless you're her scum-partner. "It's fake," I mean.
  Further, I have said it seems a towntell. At least

  one other person

  says it's a town tell. Worst case scenario, it's null, until she comes out and says, "it's fake."
  
  
  
• The reads she has provided do not seem natural. For example, her mollie read is weird. She used something completely null, mollie's chair thing, to enhance her townread on her, which was there since early for no apparent reason, and she has not doubted it at all despite mollie being completely weird and useless.
  
  Pretty sure other people have done this. The chair thing, specifically. Like, "Whoa, mollie posted a chair! That's her town meta!"
  That's seriously just as bad as you saying "Mala's getting tunnelled by me. That's her scum meta."
  
  
  
• Similarities with other Mala-scum games I have witnessed. I went into details about that in a previous post.
  
  One of your strongest points... though it's not saying much. I'm not mudslinging-- I think it's unfortunate that you don't have a whole lot of not-stupid attacks on Mala.
  
  
• There are times that Mala looks like she is not following the game closely, such as her "penguin is scum and you don't want to see it" to me, when I had stated that I am scumreading penguin, but some posts of her like 879(dude he (mattp) took a break) shows she is actually following and picking up even little details like that. Which means that when it looks like she is not following, it's an act.

Actually... another good point.

[Whiskers]

Hmm, hold on. May have been too quick.

I'll put a card on the table too.

I know there is a neighborizer in this game. That's because I'm a "Virgin", making me immune to neighborizations.

Two things that make me wonder:

1. The wiki on neighborizers says they can be of any alignment (though most commonly pro-town)
2. Given my town-status, why would I be "protected" from a neighborization through my modifier if not because the tool is in the hands of a non-town player?

Please discuss.

Huh, I didn't know you were scum!

Grimgroove/shos for possible alternate scummers.

Let me go ahead and answer your question:
You wouldn't be "protected." The fact that you used that word shows that you're trying to twist what's really going on, to put Matt in a bad spot.
Instead, you are "immune" to Neighborization. You can't be Neighborized, no matter how hard we try.

And since I'm in favour of giving town lots of info, let me go ahead and barf onto pile as well;
I am a Neighborizer, also.
Which means that I'm in a good place to judge MattP's claim.
So, MattP. Tell me more about yourself.

[Whiskers]

There's one thing I'm proud of, and it's that any scumreads I've had this game (except Shos to a degree) I've been fair too and tried to be rational and talk things through with them rather than be a vitriolic, counterproductive individual. It's a shame to see that you're completely incapable of this at the moment.

((Also this, we have to give him credit for. I really appreciate this, it's the worst thing in the world to be ignored, especially in Mafia.))

[Whiskers]

So, Grimgroove/shos, I say for a couple of reasons.
shos' early full-on fellatio of GG
shos' current piggybacking of Wisdom, the most-aggressive of townleaders in this game (And this is really blatant and bad, you guys. Please realize that.)
Grimgroove's piggybacking of Wisdom. This is a little less obvious... or, I guess, "more subtle." Grimgroove is, of course, doing other things and participating in other parts of the game, so it looks less bad. But GG's play has become much more biting in this later portion of Day 1, where it was fairly sweet and mellow in the very beginning of the game. It also seems that he's largely mirroring Wisdom's posts when he can, attacking players Wis is attacking, even if he says he prefers someone else's lynch.

Just pointing out a connection I see, for the other players to be cognisant of.

[Whiskers]

I am a Neighborizer, also.

Wouldn't that constitute a counterclaim?

No.
Go back to Epicmafia.

...
ok seriously though.
It's a fucking theme game. Theme games are by no means balanced, and are just as likely as not to have 10 mafia godfathers with daytalk, sitting around two VTs, cackling with glee.
Or, just as likely as not to have a town entirely made of Docs.
Or Non-Sane cops.
Or, fucking cults.
Or ponies.

Since "neighborizer" isn't an extremely powerful role-- in fact, I'd say there's not a whole hell of a lot of use to be had out of it, unless you KNOW someone is town and they need to speak with YOU, PRIVATELY-- yeah, sure. Throw in six or seven of them.

HOWEVER.
I believe I can make the assumption that his role Neighborizer, and

my

role Neighborizer, will be similar enough-- by which I mean, exactly the same-- that I can prove the validity of his roleclaim. Because, ok, there's no real reason for him to lie; Neighborizer is equally likely to be town or scum, right? But if he's lying scum, then he's lying scum.

[Whiskers]

Part of me wants GG to flavor claim, though.

Well yes, certainly.
I'll support this, but the first thing I want, is for Matt to tell me more about his role.

In fact, I'd really prefer it if we didn't have a whole lot more people commenting about this particular topic, until he does that. It'll colour his response.

[Whiskers]

Actually, Mala, sweetie,

Since you're online, you can answer some stuff for me too.

Have you been Neighborized? (By Matt)

Because it seems as though you have. I just want to make sure I fully understand the situation.

[Whiskers]

Actually, Mala, sweetie,

Since you're online, you can answer some stuff for me too.

Have you been Neighborized? (By Matt)

Because it seems as though you have. I just want to make sure I fully understand the situation.

I havent recieved word of it yet.

Is that a yes, or a no? Or if neither, please expand on your answer; I don't understand what you're saying.

[Whiskers]

And wow whiskers. Matt says some bullshit about scum piggybacking me, suddenly everyone is scum piggybacking me. Way to prove me wrong on how you're not swayed by people's bullshit.

No, no, it's just that she brought it up. I'm not being swayed; I saw it and recognized it before. I even made a post that basically quoted a shos post, and said "Wisdom did said this already" to everything he said. With links to where you had said it.

And GG has been a little unsettling lately. I'll ISO for the parts I'm talking about, if you want-- it's just as likely I'm confused and am thinking of the wrong player (in which case, it's them who is copying you, instead). Sorry for not mentioning it right away?

[Whiskers]

Ok so here's the thing:

I have finals, I don't have time to parse through shit right now.

I'm a neighborizer. I don't want Mala dead, I want Shos dead.

I misunderstood why MattP posts this. I thought he was saying he neighborized Mala, and that's why he didn't want her dead. Otherwise why the fuck would his claim change anything? Who cares if you're a neighborizer, how is that related to lynching Mala!?

Hence the Q to Mala.

Also, I need to mention this to MattP:

AND if I was a neighborizer and scum there's no rational reason I would have just claimed UNLESS mala and I are scum and this was a gambit.

Er, isn't that kind of the theory that's going around right now? That you and Mala are scum together? So... yeah, why wouldn't it be a gambit?

ALSO!
If you were a neighborizer and

town

, there's no rational reason you would have just claimed. Since your claim holds no weight (because it is a weak-ass claim, which could be town or scum, and isn't very powerful; in other words, a "safe" claim), and because your claim has no weight (because what role you are has very little to do with us lynching Mala).

[Whiskers]

Maybe they're "copying" me cuz I'm fucking right. Unlike you and nacho and whoever who are on a mission to prove how every word I post is wrong and tunneling.

Dude.
You're saying, "she's scum because I'm tunneling on her."

Yes, I'm telling you you're wrong.

[Whiskers]

No, you're telling me that you don't understand why she is scum. Which is okay, because no matter how hard I try to explain, you can't see with my eyes. And that's why I don't bother with cases.

Ok, let me rephrase what I said, then, because I understand there's a slight difference between what I said and what I actually meant:

I'm telling you your reasons for thinking Mala are scum, are wrong. I don't understand why she's scum, because you use reasons like "because I am tunnelling her, which I only do on scumMala" to pad out your case.

It's like

No, I had an epiphany while sleeping that you might be scum. Dead serious. >.>
I have caught scum by dreams before. Cause I over think something. D:

Vote: Tech

Dream told me so. <3

Ok? It's silly.

I am not saying Mala is not scum. I am saying, Mala is not scum for the reasons you've presented. And maybe she is scum for

some

of the reasons you've presented. But whether or not you tunnel on her, has no bearing on her alignment. And yes, when I subtract the reasons you've give which are ridiculous and inane, I find your case is sort of lacking! As in, it doesn't make me want to commit to a lynch.

[Whiskers]

It is completely fake if you consider that I have never tunneled on her before when she was town. I have tunneled on her twice when she was scum.

The most recent time.

[Whiskers]

And now I'm going backwards through your ISO and I can't fucking find it. I'm

sure

you've said that before-- "I only tunnel on Mala when she is scum. I'm tunnelling on Mala. Mala is scum."

But fuuuuck.
Reading you in ISO is like, "oh, here's all the mala-based posts all at once." Almost makes me want to vote her.

Unvote

So, maybe; after MattP and I are done with our claim game.

[preedit]

Whiskers let matt do the flavorclaim first please notvyou

No shit?
Yeah, of course. He'll also be claiming the rest of his role, which is actually important. Flavour can come after that. And

my

flavour can come even later after that, if I bother claiming it at all.

Remind me when you started calling the shots, shos? Because last I heard, you're just a bird twittering around Wisdom's head, parroting back his arguments a couple of pages later. And before that,

you

were today's lynch.

@Wisdom: Yeah, ISOing you, I saw where it originated from, basically. I'm not sure where I got the idea that it was the other thing-- But boy, was I sure that it was the other thing!

[Whiskers]

Now, I think I'm going to drink an energy drink, have a cake doughnut, and go to sleep.

[Whiskers]

Stop shooting people down like an ass, reminding me that 'i dont call the shots' is completely unnecessary. I have my own ways of scumhunting and this one requures matt to flavorvlaim first so i said it. You could just shut up you know itd make no different result than the 'no shit'

Yeah...
sorry.

Basically, Mirari's post reeks of confirmation-bias. Which I still find interesting given that he didn't comment on Mala at all prior to the PA wagon observation.

It might have been Mirari's play that I was thiking of earlier, not GrimGroove's.

[Whiskers]

There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.

Why?
Why can't there be two of every animal?
I just want to point out that, I'm the "other neighborizer," and I'm the "unanimous townread." So maybe it should add some weight that I'm the one saying this?

My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?

[Whiskers]

ok I'm wrong on someone, possibly on mollie. Mirari is scum.

You have

the worst

OMGUS, you know that? Worse than mollie. Actually, maybe not the worst, just the most aggressive. It's taking over your face.

You're losing face

to OMGUS!

[Whiskers]

I'm Apollo

Wasnt it clear that Matt was to favor claim first?

Um, He did?

[Whiskers]

Day Neighborizer

So that's why you asked Mala whether she was already neighborized. You assumed Matt also works at day.

The weird thing is that Mala answered "I don't know" as opposed to "no", as if she also knew the neighborizers are supposed to work at day.

Exactly. Or, I'm not sure if that's what it is "As if," but it certainly was a weird way to answer it. If you have been Neighborized-- that's fairly straightforward.

wtf?
Mirari did not suspect me, what OMGUS?

Read my actual points on her.

No, no, I mean-- Mirari (from like, three pages ago) disagrees with your reads. He's scum.
Much in the same way mollie was a stupid ass and couldn't answer your question and went, "Whoa, I never said that! Are You scum?!??" and was generally too stupid to understand what was going on. She's scum.

Just, like... people you disagree with become scum. People who agree with you and support you become town.
And you clearly don't use this for all your reads. I'd say it applies to MattP some, but you've also given a bunch of support for why he's scum. So maybe it was seeded from this OMGUS, and thn you built a case. Possibly same for Mala, Idr where that originated from.
And you don't base all of your townreads on it. But things like townreading shos? Who you spent a good chunk of the Day attacking and trying to lynch? There's POE, and there's that reverse OMGUS thing going on.

Just sayin'~

My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?

Not alignment indicative - flavor wise this is pretty strong - esp. the day\night dual nature.

Also - if possible, I would like the neighbourizers to consider me when neighbourizing. It should be beneficial.

Yeah, maybe. Will you be more talkative if I neighborize you than you have been in the thread? Because if not, it'd really be a waste, wouldn't it?
Also, since I'm a Dayborizer, would it really be useful to you?

[Whiskers]

Whiskers - what is your flavor?

Peppermint.

[Whiskers]

Just, like... people you disagree with become scum.

You are misunderstanding me, once again. I did not call her scum because she disagreed with me. I called her scum because of what she was posting, and I analyzed it right after that. Did you read it?

Perhaps.
Maybe it's that you don't really look at a person, usually, until they do something to cross you.
Which is understandable. I guess it's just what I'm seeing looks badish.
Dont' worry too much about it.
Gtg take a final test.

[Whiskers]

town don't challange their townreads, they push their scumreads.

Er, wrong?

Matt never said if he was a day or night. Whiskers asked me if I was and I replied idk because I didn't know. You're stretching trying to say I knew if it was day or night.

It doesn't matter. If you have not recieved a link to a QT, then you've not been neighborized, have you now?

[Whiskers]

Anyway.

Vote: Malakittens

Scum can go ahead and quickhammer, if they want.

[Whiskers]

That's L-1, so intent to hammer as I won't be claiming without it.

No, Whiskers, I didn't recieve a link.

My lynch

isn't

the way we want to go Day 1. It will probably do more damage than good.

Perhaps.

Regardless, there's a good chance that's the direction we'll go.

Let us make the best of it, and make sure you're helping town right up to the last. Because you still win with us, even if you're lynched.

[Whiskers]

Or to word it differently, here is how I am thinking:

-If I don't accept there are two neighborizers, the one lying is Matt.
-If I do accept there are two neighborizers, one of them should be scum -> That one is Matt.
-If Mala flips town and her role is real, it's practically confirmed that one of them is scum since if they were both town they would make her very strong by not neighborizing anyone.
-Therefore, if Mala flips town, Matt being scum is even more likely than if she flips scum.
-The only actual case Matt is town is if Mala is scum lying about her role and both neighborizers are actually town.

Tell me where you disagree.

I actually disagree.
This is based on the fact that we claim D1. Which we wouldn't necessarily do.
It is based on the idea that, even if Mala is a QT Cop, we still wouldn't neighborize. I basically see no reason to not neighborize, since Mala's role indicates Lovers already (iirc?), and is very, very weak to begin with. It doesn't get stronger with our promise to not neighborize, it just makes

us

weaker.

But I do have to say, the association between Mala and Matt keeps getting stronger and stronger, with the claims.

[Whiskers]

Grim's role suggests that being neighborized is bad, which means there must be a role that is hindered by it.

...whaaaaat??

No.
No, no.

It means that His is a Negative Utility Role, and that, due to Mala's claim, neighborizers are also damaging to that role's power. It means that the setup was built with layers, if everybody's claims are truthful.
And, now I consider, "I know that there are lovers," and I wonder if Mala & Matt are them. I'm not pushing this angle, but it's a suspicion I have.

[Whiskers]

Why are you even commenting on outdated things?

I can't imagine why. I'm probably not reading currently. This has happened before.

Hey Wisdom, Nachomamma is basically doing the same thing I do-- calling bullshit where he sees it.
He's going through your cases, albeit that they're old and you are no longer 100% sure about them being scum, like you were at the time, and hitting every point on the list. Providing a counter argument.

If you're reading me as "obvtown" and "conftown" for this, why aren't you reading him for it?

ALSO, the bit he says about his meta is, IMO, bound to be more valid than what you have to say about his meta. That's not a slam on you, or a prejudice toward him, but he says that those town games you make reference to are old games, and that his current town meta is different anyway. FURTHER, I disagree that having limited means to play the game does not change your playstyle. When big posts are a pain in the ass, you don't make as many big posts.

[Whiskers]

Hmm, hold on. May have been too quick.

I'll put a card on the table too.

I know there is a neighborizer in this game. That's because I'm a "Virgin", making me immune to neighborizations.

Two things that make me wonder:

1. The wiki on neighborizers says they can be of any alignment (though most commonly pro-town)
2. Given my town-status, why would I be "protected" from a neighborization through my modifier if not because the tool is in the hands of a non-town player?

Please discuss.

This claim reads pretty incredibly town.

I disagree.
His #2, particularly, seems incredibly manipulative and threatening.

Actually, I don't think we ever got an answer to that:

@GRIMGROOVE

, does your role PM say "immune to" or "protected from"?

[Whiskers]

town, why continue to push like that even when shes not getting lynched anymore

IMO, it's because he's not paying close attention, and he

can

.
The last several pages up until the claim were, iirc, shos sitting a page or so behind you and ctrl+c, ctrl+v your arguments into his posts. Continuing to attack Mala after she's claimed is fine-- you did it, after all, and it's fine if you think you have a good reason. But he continues to attack after you've made a case for MalaTown. And he doesn't refute any points on the case. He doesn't discuss it. He just says, "I only have five minutes" (not paying much attention) "vote for mala, mala is scum".

The other thing I see, is that it

could

be that he doesn't want to look like he's straight-up sheeping. He sticks on the Mala wagon for a few more posts after you do, because if he switched immediately as you did, then wouldn't it look scummy? Or at least lazy?
Anyway, it's oppourtunistic. He doesn't want to move off of mala because he knows his lynch is a very viable alternative.

[Whiskers]

Mala is good town.

BAAAHAHAHAAHAA, WHAT!?

Heheheheh. Since when?
Remember that game I posted quotes from where Mala was talking about having dreamed someone was scum?

[Whiskers]

You are sadly mistaking yourself for a townleader. Again. First try to hold on to a read for longer than a page and then come talk to me.

Lol.
You say this as though you're not one of the people following him/trying to stay on his good side.

That takes one slot from scum to town. Instead of 6 antitowns there are 5.

Well, I'm not exactly fucking sure what this is referring to, since you gave it no context.
But I'll assume you mean the same thing that Wis and GG are arguing about at the same time as you posting this: Why are all three Neighborizer claims town?
With regards to Mala's role:
A scum neighborizer is antitown.
A town neighborizer is antitown.
Two town neighborizers and one scum neighborizer equals three antitown roles.
Three town neighborizers and no scum neighborizers equals three antitown roles.

The end.

[Whiskers]

So well mindtricks dont work so laye at night so lets just vrute force; what eould you think if there were FOUR nei xlaims? Five? Wgeres the limit?

Would you stop fucking posting?
You're reaching mollie levels of bullshit here.

[Whiskers]

IF THERE IS A COP THAT CAN ONLY COP TOWN ON ONE PLAYER AND ALL OTHERS ARE MILLERS OR SCUM AND NOBODY KNOWS THAT IT IS FUCKIN NOT MAKING ANT KINDOFCSENSE

IM DRUNK AND IT STILL MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL.

No, you're fucking stupid. That does not make no sense.
Mala's role has the potential to work with a town comprised solely of Neighborizers. But, it's likely it will be useless.
Like, say, A Cop, in a town of Millers. What about this is impossible? Unlikely? In a theme game?

[Whiskers]

Oh shit, right.

Unvote

[Whiskers]

I just don't understand why he's getting a free slide. I'm not town reading Whiskers and so I want to know why others are yet no one wants to give me an answer.

>he

[Whiskers]

Sketchy people:
Whiskers

Could you please expand on this?

Like I told you at the time, there's no way a townie thinks someone is lying yet they don't consider the possibility he might be scum. Lying mainly comes from scum.

Sigh.
You

know

this isn't true.
Mafia lies. Town lies. It's just good play. In the scenario Mirari is describing, TownMatt lied to protect himself, a super-power-role.
Whether or not you believe Mirari really believed this, please don't say such silly things as "Lying comes from scum."

[Whiskers]

@Mirari: Dude, even playing forum mafia on different

sites

is vastly different. IRL mafia is more like playing EpicMafia than Forum mafia. In IRL, you can't quote somebody, you can't "catch up" and bring up old posts. You can't take back what you said, before you post it. You have a tone of voice and a facial expression in IRL. You don't have days upon days to rethink and consider what you're going to say and how to phrase it.

Lack of even a little paranoia and complete confidence simply don't come from town.

Btw, this is what I had a problem with early on in the game between you and MattP.

[Whiskers]

What is your opinion of the people who are still voting Mala since Elyse's most recent post? There's a reason they are on my sketchy list. Whiskers is sketchy for the potential "loophole" explanation of avoiding Mala's role (it didn't happen but it could have).

Oh, ok.

Wait, I'm sketchy due to hypotheticals?

: (

[Whiskers]

As far as neighborizers go, what about having them neighborize one another? It lets them use their roles without giving everyone a QT and so maximizes Mala's role's utility. And since there is a good chance of having a scum neighborizer, it lets the town one(s) sort the scum one(s) a bit.

Your theory is that all male gods are neighborizers and most of the female gods are neighborizable? But I haven't seen anything to indicate that male gods can't be neighborized.

I'm also glad that PEnguin brought this up, since I was pretty much thinking it the whole time.
well, not the whole time. But "why not neighborize each other, and have one person be a hub of the neighborhood?" a couple of times, and "why not neighborize males" when Wis brought up that aspect.

[Whiskers]

I think everyone is getting confused about the lover thing because Wisdom chose a very poor word to describe the flavor of his speculation. Couples would be better.

I don't see the utility of neighborizers using their power anymore. The gambit and under the radar potential has been lost and I am not sure having them target each other will help with reads as they would all know it is coming.

Using Mala to target the scummiest one of the bunch tonight I think is the best coordination.

Penguin, don't look at me, blame Wisdom for the incoming case. Probably won't be here until tomorrow.

No, he didn't. Mala chose that word, because iirc, she misread her role PM and mistook it for being Lovers

The utility of neighborizers is the same as ever. The only one who is influenced by this is Mala. I'm not complaining exactly, but I will question the idea of putting her power role above everybody else's in terms of importance. Also, her "guilty" is not a condemnation as it does not necessarily mean the player is scum.
So to recap: The utility of neighborizers is the same.
Oh wait, I just processed the rest of the post. ok yeah, I guess that makes sense.

[Whiskers]

Could you please expand on this?

I caught this before fully leaving but it is for a few reasons. I explained it slightly earlier but I wanted to wait until you saw it so I could see your reaction.

When I said you were scumreading Nacho + Wisdom for Nacho's comment saying Wisdom is trying to do this town thing to look town, you made a post that said "Golly no!" or something really disingenuous and moved your vote.

I don't know what you're referring to. I hope you mean "tomorrow" as IRL, not game days.

You claimed and didn't in my opinion try to parse the situation as much as I thought you would have based on your early game play.

I was hoping to disprove matt's claim. I had forgotten I was a Dayborizer by that point.

Your claim itself I feel is more likely scum than the other 2 neighborizer claims.

I agree. Mine stands out a lot and it seems like, since town can already talk during the Day, and scum would really benefit more from doing so privately, it is more of a scum role. Of course, I can't tell you I'm scum. But I do certainly think my role is scummy.

If there are no more neighbors (praying to Olympic godz at this point), your claim seems to have safety built into it from a design perspective. Right now Mala can check to see if people have a QT. If you are scum you will have a QT. You using your power on D1 makes it so that you will have a QT and thus avoid being hit by her cop ability. An activation of a Godfather ability in my opinion.

I haven't used my power. I use my power at night, and I don't get a QT until the next Day.
So, Mala should Cop me, read me Tonight, while I neighborize her. Then she knows I'm town, and we share a DayQT.

Actually. I take that back.

I don't know if everybody's role is like this, but mine says, I neighborize someone, share a quicktopic with them, "located here" and gives a link.
So technically, I already have a QT.
Checking the QT, it says I'm allowed to talk to myself pregame, but can not talk there when night starts.
I probably should have checked the QT before now (I didn't think I needed to; I had nobody I was neighbored with), I could have left them some thoughts or something.

Oh right, so I should point this out, too:
That means I can technically neighbor Night 1, but effectively it doesn't work until Day 2.

[Whiskers]

Mala is good town.

BAAAHAHAHAAHAA, WHAT!?

Heheheheh. Since when?
Remember that game I posted quotes from where Mala was talking about having dreamed someone was scum?

No offense, but screw you.

That game was over a year ago and plus some.

If you are going to sit here and be bias saying I can't improve over a year or more then there's legit something wrong with you. It was one game and one mistake. If you oversee that and be still want to be judging of my play here based on that then I really don't know what type of player you are in general.

Ok, ok, I won't say I'm actually judging your current play on that game. But that game was standard wrt your play at that time!

I don't think you're a terrible player-- but I'm not expecting you to be a particularly

good

player, either. Which is what shos is saying you are, so he can lynch you.
Also btw shos, "Burden of Proficiency".

[Whiskers]

If other neighborizers have QTs set up, then they should definitely neighborize one another and/or Mala.

Whiskers, I do disagree that 'town lies' should be put up there with 'scum lies.' On the whole of it scum should be lying way more than town, and nearly any lies town would tell could be ones scum would find useful too. Not everything, but mostly. IMHO, if you think someone is lying, even if you can see the town motivation, there's likely a potential scum motivation there too.

Fair enough. Mostly, I'm just saying that "lynch all liars" probably isn't a good way to deal with things, especially since the argument was "he's lying to protect a strong townrole," and

especially

because we've come to the conclusion that he probably wasn't lying at all.

[Whiskers]

I don't know if everybody's role is like this, but mine says, I neighborize someone, share a quicktopic with them, "located here" and gives a link.
So technically, I already have a QT.
Checking the QT, it says I'm allowed to talk to myself pregame, but can not talk there when night starts.
I probably should have checked the QT before now (I didn't think I needed to; I had nobody I was neighbored with), I could have left them some thoughts or something.

Oh right, so I should point this out, too:
That means I can technically neighbor Night 1, but effectively it doesn't work until Day 2.

Malakittens, thoughts on this?

[Whiskers]

Btw you technically lied about your claim. Now that there are 2 night neighborizers and your claim is the odd one out, you switched to "no I'm a night one too I just create daytalk". Why didn't you clarify that at first?

Sorry, I didn't know I switched.


When I claimed, being a Day-Neighborizer. I guess I didn't go into specifics beyond that.
But, when I checked my role PM recently, I saw stuff that I hadn't really processed before, or forgot about.
Whether or not you want to discount this, my role

still

makes the least sense amidst all these claims-- with regards to setup, at least.

[Whiskers]

Day Neighborizer

So that's why you asked Mala whether she was already neighborized. You assumed Matt also works at day.

The weird thing is that Mala answered "I don't know" as opposed to "no", as if she also knew the neighborizers are supposed to work at day.

Exactly. Or, I'm not sure if that's what it is "As if," but it certainly was a weird way to answer it. If you have been Neighborized-- that's fairly straightforward.

Wait... here you agreed that you neighborize at day.
So how come you say you neighborize at night now?

Because I forgot.
A better answer is, because I wasn't worried about when the neighborization was fired, but when it took effect.
The real answer is, I was agreeing with the second part of your post. I had assumed that Matt was trying to clear Mala somehow, by claiming to be Neighbored to her. That would require him to have Neighbored her pregame, which I was betting wouldn't work, and therefore a lie, or to have Neighbored him during that Day, Day 1 (which in retrospect, should also have been a lie, since

I'm

the god of sun) (and should also have been a lie because, even if his role worked like mine, it means he would have to neighborize pregame anyway).
And, reread that quote! I was agreeing with the first part of the second paragraph-- that it was weird the way Mala answered.

So yeah, basically I was hoping MattP was going to claim to have neighbored Mala, and I would be able to really tear into him, giving us a nice, clean lynch for the day. That was not the case.

[Whiskers]

To say it again, in case I wasn't clear, "Day Neighborizer" may have been a bad way of putting it. I am a Neighborizer whose neighborization results in a Daytalk-only thread.

[Whiskers]

I don't think I believe you. Who forgets their role like that?

Idk.
Lynch me for it.

Actually, let me rephrase that: the problem is arising from what I meant being different from what you

thought

I meant. Whether or not I forgot, doesn't matter. If I had remembered, I would have said the same thing.

[Whiskers]

-You asked mala if she had already be neighborized. That meant you assumed Matt neighborizers at day, which in turn means you thought YOU neighborize at day.

Incorrect. I thought Matt didn't neighborize at all, because I thought Matt was lying. I was hoping to catch Matt & Mala in saying that MattP neighborized Mala during pregame, which didn't make sense to me-- since that wasn't how my role worked.
Actually, at that point I forgot that I was a Day Neighborizer at all. I realized afterward that my whole "FULLCLAIM, NOW" was to compare his role, which I assumed was a standard neighborizer, to my role, which was not-- which didn't mean there would be conclusive evidence whether or not his claim was true. I decided to keep up the questioning, such as it was, for the time being. It never hurts to put pressure on a claim.

-You didn't correct me when I stated the above, and instead said "exactly".

I said "exactly", because I assumed Matt was going to claim something

weird.

-You didn't correct ooba when he said to use your day-shot on him if you haven't used it yet.

I... I don't think he

ever

said that. He said something like, "Neighborizers should consider neighborizing me."

-You didn't correct mala when she told you "don't do it yet" (in regards to neighborizing ooba).

Again, I'm pretty sure this was to everyone-- don't neighborize yet. And since it's become, "Nobody neighborize at all, ever," Yeah, I think you're mistaken here.

Of course, I'm wrong on at least one account:

Yeah, maybe. Will you be more talkative if I neighborize you than you have been in the thread? Because if not, it'd really be a waste, wouldn't it?
Also, since I'm a Dayborizer, would it really be useful to you?

I would say that if you have your day-shot still left today, you should use it on me now.

^P-edit: Lol. Does your neighbourizing power flavor mention the "Sun" by any chance?

There simply can't be two town-neighbourizers. This isn't about outguessing the game moderator. It just makes no sense.

Why?
Why can't there be two of every animal?
I just want to point out that, I'm the "other neighborizer," and I'm the "unanimous townread." So maybe it should add some weight that I'm the one saying this?

My role does not overlap with his. I'm Apollo, a Day Neighborizer. Which, when I think about it, seems a lot more like a scum role, doesn't it?

If you haven't used it yet. I'm gonna ask you to wait before doing it.

Don't knowledge this, but ponder it for a bit, pls.

[Whiskers]

Yeah right.

Whiskers/Desp/nacho

That fits. I've had a blue-balls sort of town read on Desp for a while, and was trying to support Nacho in defending Mala against your weird shit.
So, definitely links there.

[Whiskers]

VOTE: ika

This post tells me that our strong, fearless, beautiful leader, Wisdom, also has no direction right now. After having lost the Mala/Matt/Mollie/Mirari bit, he's grasping for something to hold on to, to cling to, until he can regain his footing.

Which is fine, but I think he should realize that. So I'm pointing it out for his benefit.
It's ok to have a moment of downtime while you figure out your next target.

[Whiskers]

we disagreed. it's that simple, and doesn't make us stupid, or scum

It does. There's no way you can't understand that the setup points to a role like mala's existing or how the flavor further confirms it. There is absolutely no chance mala is scum, so still pushing that is either stupid or scum acting stupid.

Actually-- the setup points to a role like hers, but with so many Neighborizers, what's to say she's not a scum QT Cop?
It's a non-normal cop to begin with. If all (or most) of the Neighborizers are Town, scum might want to know who is in communication with whom.

Did she know what the neighborizers do flavor-wise? Why did she say all that stuff about lovers if she didn't?

Also, this is speculation on your part. We all kind of patted you on the back for it, but nobody is certain how true it is. Except Elyse, I suppose.

[preedit]
got ninja'd

[Whiskers]

But the ika vote made a ton of sense?

Who do you think ika replaced?

[Whiskers]

After having lost the Mala/Matt/Mollie/Mirari bit

Mala is town.
Matt gave me enough town feelings to make me not want to lynch him.
Some of Mirari's posts made me think I might be wrong about her.
Who does that leave?

I'm not lost at all.

So, can I ask you to think over-- not necessarily consider, or entertain, but to discuss with me-- the idea that Mala's role might actually be a scum one?

[Whiskers]

what's to say she's not a scum QT Cop

And scum need a QT Cop because..?

And town need a QT Cop because...?

[Whiskers]

what's to say she's not a scum QT Cop

And scum need a QT Cop because..?

And town need a QT Cop because...?

Because it can occasionally give information as to the alignments of players.

Or, it can give scum information on who is talking to each other. Find power roles. Suggest scumpairs during the Day, based on what you've learned.
I just remember a bunch of people saying, "But, but, then the whole town would be neighborized! They

can't

all be town!"
And then, Neighborizing would be negative utility, as Mala can't "Cop" as effectively.
Except, assuming no massclaim Day 1, people would already have Neighborized, right? Actually, I may be wrong here, Idr when everybody else's delays... happen.
ALSO,

with

our massclaim, there's no need to suss out powerroles-- at least, not neighborizers.

[Whiskers]

And town need a QT Cop because...?

One of the neighborizers is scum and mala can catch them in a lie. Or find someone with a QT who hasn't been neighborized.

Like, seriously?

Er.
How would knowing if they have a QT help Mala, or any of us, know if they're scum, if they're

also

a neighborizer?
I could see you using the power to clear people-- and if it were a scum role, you have the opportunity to clear your scum-mates.

[Whiskers]

The only power roles that QT cops can find are neighborizers, and they can't even find those very well. This would be the most useless rolecop in the entire world and I have no idea how you could use it to clear partners.

Lovers, Masons, alternate scumteam,
You'd use it to clear partners by doing what mala is doing, and saying, "Ah, Whiskers is clean! No QTs there."

[Whiskers]

Btw you technically lied about your claim. Now that there are 2 night neighborizers and your claim is the odd one out, you switched to "no I'm a night one too I just create daytalk". Why didn't you clarify that at first?

Sorry, I didn't know I switched.


When I claimed, being a Day-Neighborizer. I guess I didn't go into specifics beyond that.
But, when I checked my role PM recently, I saw stuff that I hadn't really processed before, or forgot about.
Whether or not you want to discount this, my role

still

makes the least sense amidst all these claims-- with regards to setup, at least.

So, what is your full claim again? You neighborize pregame and it takes effect N1? Who did you neighborize?

No, this,

Whiskers...do you neighborize N1 and get to talk D2?

[Whiskers]

I don't think lovers or masons or alternate scumteams exist.

Perhaps not, but we do have a ton of neighborizers. So yeah, let's say that's all scum-QTCop can detect.

Sigh. idk. Maybe the people being neighborized would have a particular value for you to kill them. Maybe you really do become Lovers after you Neighborize-- except I guess one guy has two shots. Maybe there was no specific purpose in designing the role into the game, as trying to outguess your players almost never works and railroading them makes them feel dissatisfied. Maybe I'm wrong.
It was just an idea that I had-- because really. A Town QT Cop is not really any stronger or weaker than a Scum QT Cop. They're

both

useless.

Don't think lovers are a thing this game thanks to all the neighborizers; the reason for giving the neighborizers the choice to neighborizer seems geared to give them the chance not to give mala false positives. Masons probably don't exist for similar reasons.

I have never seen Neighborizers who are compulsive. Just the idea is stupid. In other words, don't you

always

have "the choice to neighborizer"

[Whiskers]

I do agree that your claim switch is weird as hell at best, though. If scum were informed of multiple neighborizers I'm some way then I would expect the situation to play out exactly the way it did here (scum claims neighborizer with specifics being a bit off, gets cornered a bit thanks to setup speculation, switches claim) which shakes townreads a bit.

I still hold that I didn't switch claims. Read Penguin's post regarding it.

But not enough because that would be incredibly impressive for a mod hosting her second game. Remember that this is a mod hosting her second game.

...Not enough what?
And, why would I know this is a mod hosting her second game?
And, what does it have to do with anything?

[Whiskers]

using a past persons post to vote me is bad reasoning, i am not molli.

Your alignment is the same as mollie's, no?

unless if the mod decided to magicly trll me, then it is the same.

however using their post against me is bad reasoning. i did not make those post therefore they are null to me.

That's... not true. It just means that you can't defend against attacks on Mollie, and it's (therefore) potentially oppourtunistic to attack them. Still, if Mollie was scum, it might be possible to use her posts to catch and lynch the slot as scum. It's not null.

ika is providing tons of content guys

trollalt is trollalt

something tells me your not use to playing with a player like me...

i am no alt of anyone. i just come from another site where things are diffrent on how we play and do things

Oh, hun...

Oh, hey, ooba? Remember how I said IRL was different from forum mafia, and even different forums have vastly different games? Case in point.

ikea, you might want to... er, learn how

we

play and do things. I guarantee that you'll be thinking more deeply than you ever did on that other site.