Mini 1524: Olympian Gods Mafia - Game Over

[shos]

why would I vote mollie over mala? just cuz she's annoying you? I'm entertained.

[Grimgroove]

For starters you could acknowledge my part in the pressure on Malakittens. I thrive on admiration and whither under the lack thereof.

[Whiskers]

Recently, I was happy about this,

pirate mollie, how would you call your own play in this game?

but less so about

What is Wisdoms case against Mala?

The thing you've just been discussing with him?

Did you ever make your post against mala or did you just respond to my town case?

I have made some posts against Mala, and my response to your MAla-towncase was one of them. I did promise a full ISO-case on her, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered anymore.

And, in fact, commented on it!

What is Wisdoms case against Mala?

The thing you've just been discussing with him?

Mmm, so you don't

know

. . .

It amazes me that the case that is being peddled around right now is "townies don't need to be prodded they produce content by themselves" with an AA9 in the mix.

AA9 has just replaced out. this si null.

No, it's not.

. <----------------------- the point





<---------------------- you

Grim, what is Wisdom's case on Mala? Summarize it for me, please.

Puppetmaster, you have much to learn. If you want the puppets to dance, give them a pleasant tune.
In other words: Your boring request is denied. Wisdom just summarized it himself, do you want me to copy-paste it, or what?

I have my own aerguments against MAlakittens. Wouldn't it be more interesting to have me rehash those instead?

Please, allow me:

meta meta meta meta meta meta

Also, remind me to attack penguin's wall, since it's apparently

so hard

to do. Nitpicking is my speciality, so if it

can

get wrecked, I'll be the one to do it.

[Whiskers]

(In 1300, the "please allow me" bit was summarizing wisdom's reasons, not rehashing yours. I just realized it might look like the wrong one.)

[Malakittens]

I have not forgotten about my vote. Although Mala bugging mollie for a read on her is making me strongly consider Mala-scum.

So I noted this and waited for you to post, tried to engage so I knew you were following along.

Why call this alignment indictive, but when Grim does the same exact thing you say nothing, I litteraly mean nothing out of it?

[Grimgroove]

Why did you comment on me doing it, after/before having done the same thing yourself?

[Wisdom]

So, you heard it here first, folks.

Mala/Matt/mollie is the scumteam.

Replace Mala with nacho if I'm somehow wrong there.

Everyone else is town.

I thought you were most certain about your Mala-read? The thing in bold suggests that's the one uyou're least certain about. Could you explain?

Mollie/Malakittens/MattP is the scumteam.

That's my highly educated guess.

It is the read I'm most certain about. I just don't see Nacho being scum with Mala given the extraordinary amount of WKing. I think that if Nacho is scum, Mala is town.

[Wisdom]

Wisdom, can I convince you to hop onto mollie?

No.
Not only Mala is way scummier than her, her lynch will also be a great source of information due to the variety of reads on her (strong scumreads, strong townreads, etc).
mollie unfortunately can be stupid sometimes. I agree that this is too stupid even for mollie, but I won't lynch her over Mala for that.

[Malakittens]

Why did you comment on me doing it, after/before having done the same thing yourself?

Because I wanted to bring attention to it to see if she would pick it up.

[Wisdom]

I'll try compressing all my thoughts in this single post.

Spoiler: Why Mala is scum

• She has ignored posts she should be responding to and only did so after prodded about it or didn't do it at all.
  
• She has been focusing on a single player and has done little if any scumhunting. When her one suspect posted, she didn't care about the post until later.
  
• She has repeatedly addressed, pointed out, or generally placed her focus on irrelevant things or things with zero value in regards to finding scum. Notably, some of those things could have some value to appearing less scummy. An example would be "I have to go see the number of the games I have with Nacho and with Wisdom". Nobody cares.
  
• She made a huge deal of my "tunneling" on her in the beginning of the game, back when what I was doing wasn't even remotely resembling a tunnel. She even threatened to replace out. It is completely fake if you consider that I have never tunneled on her before when she was town. I have tunneled on her twice when she was scum.
  
• Her "I thought MattP is an Actor" thing is out of character for her and looks fake. Imo, this even looks like it was pre-planned by a scumpartner, especially considering Matt's reply to it. But that's speculation. The point is it's fake.
  
• The reads she has provided do not seem natural. For example, her mollie read is weird. She used something completely null, mollie's chair thing, to enhance her townread on her, which was there since early for no apparent reason, and she has not doubted it at all despite mollie being completely weird and useless.
  
• Similarities with other Mala-scum games I have witnessed. I went into details about that in a previous post.
  
• There are times that Mala looks like she is not following the game closely, such as her "penguin is scum and you don't want to see it" to me, when I had stated that I am scumreading penguin, but some posts of her like 879(dude he (mattp) took a break) shows she is actually following and picking up even little details like that. Which means that when it looks like she is not following, it's an act.

Spoiler: Why Matt is scum

• As noted by others, he is less active and less engaged as compared to when he is town [
  counter argument
  : He claimed he is changing his play after his break]
  
• His buddying on me. People who don't know me enough get paranoid with my egocentric playstyle and think I am scum (see shos and Whiskers). Matt didn't doubt his read on me but only when people started stating their suspicion of the mutual buddying. And then found an excuse to go back to townreading me, too easily.
  
• His last posts since the "morality issue" have been centered around it. It's like he stopped caring about the game and started caring only about people "finding him immoral". What he did cannot be considered immoral, no matter which way you look at it; but even so, that's not even what's important. What's important is that he is overreacting and using that thing as a distraction.
  
• His involvement in Mala's "Actor" thing in the beginning - he reacted instantly when Mala began that, and his response was a little theatrical. It could point to it being a pre-organised plan. Again, speculation, and this point will only matter if Mala flips scum.
  
• He has stopped scumhunting (third point relevant) and has parked his vote on shos.

Spoiler: Why mollie is scum

• Her Whiskers push is too nonsensical and stupid, even for mollie. She should understand by now that Whiskers plays like that, and she should at least be ignoring him if not having fixed the issue between them. The whole thing is an act and a distraction.
  
• She is not scumhunting (above point relevant). She should have some suspects by now - she has none. When asked who she wants to lynch, she dodged and said that penguin is better than Mala. Which was not an answer.
  
• Some of her reads looks very fake. For instance, the read she gave on MattP in 1338 looks like a textbook fake townread that applies to every scenario.
  
• Meta. This is not how town-mollie plays. I won't go into details.
  
• Counter argument:
  mollie can be this stupid sometimes and focus on things that might not make much sense (hence my "when does mollie ever make sense" to Desperado). But I think she is way past the acceptable limit.

Spoiler: Why Nacho might be scum

• Meta. It's the first time I see him not being the town-leader. Or actually, I have seen him not being the town-leader again - he was scum.
  
• Extreme WKing on Mala. He knows I can read Mala, and he has seen me shouting to people to lynch her only for Mala to go on to win the game because people, including him, didn't listen. He should at least doubt his townread on her a little. Instead he is being stubborn and tries everything he can to discredit my read on her - claiming I am tunneling, misrepping my case to a bunch of bullshit that makes no sense, etc. I really believe town-Nacho would consider the possibility I am right, however small that might be in his mind.
  
• He is not scumhunting. He is not pushing anyone. I've never seen Nacho being this passive and pushing completely noone. He has been voting shos after sheeping Matt, and has not cared to try and actually read shos. He has not tried to interact with shos to see how shos might be town. He does not have other suspects! Nacho should have tons of things to say and actual suspects at this point in the game. Nothing. And again, even if he's voting shos, he is not actually pushing for him to be lynched. Which he always does with his suspects.
  
  Note: As I said, I don't think he is scum with Mala, but he could be scum with the other two. So I think that if I am somehow wrong about Mala, Nacho replacing her in the scumteam still makes sense.

Spoiler: Other people who could be scum but don't really think so

-shos: I think his posting has greatly improved lately, while his earlier play was just bad town play. Still, there's always the possibility he managed to improve his otherwise obvious scumplay from earlier and turn it into something that can make sense as town.
-penguin: More or less, same as shos. She seemed very scummy in the beginning, especially considering her meta, but her later posts starting with that wall are much better and could mean that she just had a slow start.
-havingfitz: Only due to the fact that we have not seen much content from that slot, so everything is possible. Arc was kinda town considering her meta though, so I don't think so.
-Mirari: I liked penguin's read on her. I did not like her "Mala is voting her, wagon is so good", nor did I like her "You are all crazy, Mala is town", especially considering she is still a newbie with 2? completed games. She does not appear to consider the fact Mala could be scum at all. And I don't like her sticky read on penguin either. Still, her general tone, especially early, gave me town vibes, so I can't say I can be sure about anything here.

Spoiler: The rest of the players are town

-Whiskers: I very much like the way he is scrutinizing people. I also like how he does not get swayed by whatever says but questions everything and tries to prove how it might not make sense. For example, shos stated that the penguin wall was hard to attack - he proved that point wrong. Or, while he kind of came to an understanding of why I found Mala scummy, he still called me out on the things he thought didn't make sense. Not to mention his paranoia of my playstyle and even his attempts of trying to make me play less for myself and more for the town, which are always positive points for a player who meets me for the first time. Very very town, will never lynch.
-Grimgroove: I like his reads, which align very much with mine, as well as the various theories he comes up with. I also liked the way he reacted when I semi-faked a tunnel on him early on. It reminded me of the town-Grimgroove I had actually tunneled on in another game.
-ooba: I liked him since the beginning, and he has not given me any reason to change that. I like his content, and while I might disagree with some of his reads, they don't appear fake or opportunistic.
-Desperado: He made me paranoid for a while because of his sheeping, but that stopped mattering much when I saw his aggressive push on mollie, which I very much liked. Then I was even more happy in my townread on him when he continued scumreading Mala despite my stating that she is town.

And to reiterate, the correct lynch among those 3(4?) most scummy players for me is Mala. She is the most scummy, and regardless, her lynch will be a great information source. There are at least 3 people who claim that they are strongly townreading her and at least 4 people who claim they are strongly scumreading her. While this diversity can be found on other players (penguin, for example), the reads are nowhere as strong.

[Malakittens]

None of those make me scum.

I have already said I been skimming. I don't have a lot of time on break so I skim past posts and get back to them later. Skimming isn't a scum tell. Me being prodded isn't a scum tell. You're trying to say timing, timing when I only have the night time to actually read all 7+ pages that accumulate while I'm at work. Majority of my posts are either when I'm on break or after work.

I might have been focusing on Peng, but I am hunting others. So yeah that's a lie when you say I haven't scum hunted elsewhere. I didn't have the time to read her wall until later.

Actually it's important to me, but maybe not to you. Mollie seemed to attempt to discredit Nacho's read by saying well Wisdom has better experience reading Mala. Which isn't true, you guys are on even playing fields, but you guys normally play with opposite alignments.

I'm not going to repeat myself again with this point.

I'm not again going to repeat this point either as I have done it numerous times before.

Bs you're suffering from being bias when readin them. You already admitted it. If you had a problem with the reads prior speak up (no -- I'm not just referring to the Mollie read).

Just because you have meta on that doesn't mean it's true. In fact I know 100% right now those tells are false. I also learn on avoiding usin tells in future games (not related to you, but to other players.).

Again I was skimming. Already admitted it prior to this post. Don't keep making me repeat myself. I thought you were going after someone else at the time and not Peng. Still doesnt matter your all of a sudden dropped scum read felt off because this isn't her scum game.

[Elyse]

Votecount 1.14

penguin_alien - 3 - Malakittens, ooba, Mirari (L-4)
Mirari - 1 - penguin_alien (L-6)
shos - 2 - Nachomamma8, MattP (L-5)
Malakittens - 4 - Desperado, shos, Wisdom, Grimgroove (L-3)
pirate mollie - 1 - Whiskers (L-6)
Whiskers - 1 - pirate mollie (L-6)

Not voting - havingfitz

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
Deadline: (expired on 2013-12-21 12:00:00)
MattP is V/LA until Wednesday.

Interesting Fact #15: Artemis was born a day or two before Apollo and helped her mother in birthing him.

[MattP]

I have finals, I don't have time to parse through shit right now.

I'm a neighborizer. I don't want Mala dead, I want Shos dead.

[MattP]

I'm also very very sick right now

[Grimgroove]

That explains your Mala-townread. The fever is making you hallucinate.

Your early claim would sit badly with me if not for certain factors. You can consider yourself scratched from my scumlist. Doesn't make your reads any better.

[MattP]

Also, Shos didn't improve any over the past 10 pages, you just tunneled the shit out of town and the quality of your play deteriorated and scum piggybacked you, Wisdom.

Remember when Shos had you as a scumread, and now SUDDENLY when you're pushing town players for lynch Shos is riding your coattails.

Pedit: You're just ridiculous, Grim. Shos is scum. Wisdom is so far gone that he needs a major look at himself to reevaluate his play over the last 15 pages. Then everything in the world will be back to its dandy self.

And FYI, i was REALLY straining not to self-analyze, but none of the things you scumread me for were logical and the fact you discounted a LOT of completely protown shit I was doing earlier just because of some high hallucinations you had is YOUR fault.

[Grimgroove]

Hmm, hold on. May have been too quick.

I'll put a card on the table too.

I know there is a neighborizer in this game. That's because I'm a "Virgin", making me immune to neighborizations.

Two things that make me wonder:

1. The wiki on neighborizers says they can be of any alignment (though most commonly pro-town)
2. Given my town-status, why would I be "protected" from a neighborization through my modifier if not because the tool is in the hands of a non-town player?

Please discuss.

[Grimgroove]

And even though it's not an earthshattering claim, why did you claim now? You were nowhere near getting lynched.

[MattP]

It doesn't matter that neighborizers can be of either alignment, I just tied myself to a neighbor claim making me not available for any other night role.

Town can have negative utility roles

AND if I was a neighborizer and scum there's no rational reason I would have just claimed UNLESS mala and I are scum and this was a gambit.

Pedit: Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town, and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?

[Wisdom]

and the fact you discounted a LOT of completely protown shit I was doing earlier

Scum can do protown shit too, I don't see your point. But your whining because I don't consider the protown points means you care about your appearence, so more pro-scum points for you.

[Wisdom]

I've played with a scum neighborizer before, who actually neighborized me on N1. Can easily be scum.

[MattP]

and the fact you discounted a LOT of completely protown shit I was doing earlier

Scum can do protown shit too, I don't see your point. But your whining because I don't consider the protown points means you care about your appearence, so more pro-scum points for you.

My issue with you is that you're town and currently scum are piggybacking you because you're vocal. The sooner you realize that and try to give the thread another rational read instead of tunneling, which you objectively cartoonishly are doing as of this point, the better.

[Wisdom]

Pedit: Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town, and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?

wtf is this bullshit?

There was no reason for you to claim unless you are scum and you want to confuse us. That's all there is to it.

[MattP]

I've played with a scum neighborizer before, who actually neighborized me on N1. Can easily be scum.

Scum certainly CAN be neighborizers. Scum have no reason to claim neighborizer day one and pigeonhole themselves to HAVE to then neighborize.

[MattP]

Pedit: Because Shos is scum, Wisdom is town, Mala is town, and a neighborizer won't be roleblocked or nightkilled but lends credence to my beliefs?

wtf is this bullshit?

There was no reason for you to claim unless you are scum and you want to confuse us. That's all there is to it.

You're actively being ignorant of theory of mind right now.