Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[Syryana]

VOTE: Grimgroove

Policy.

[Syryana]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Candillan

Wayyyyy too eager to show he's town

[Syryana]

sigh
this already
Syryana I am town this time though ^_^

The question is, are you?

Yup.

Hi everyone,

Since I wasn't in the original game, I think I need to introduce myself.

I'm homer. I played this game before (off site) and this is my second game here (the first one is still ongoing after I was NK, so I think we're not allowed to talk about it).

VOTE: Syryana
Welcome to MS, homer!
Because he changed his vote too quickly.

[Syryana]

sigh
this already
Syryana I am town this time though ^_^

The question is, are you?

Yup.

Hi everyone,

Since I wasn't in the original game, I think I need to introduce myself.

I'm homer. I played this game before (off site) and this is my second game here (the first one is still ongoing after I was NK, so I think we're not allowed to talk about it).

VOTE: Syryana
Because he changed his vote too quickly.

Welcome to MS, homer!

Botched that up. Fixed.

[Syryana]

sigh
this already
Syryana I am town this time though ^_^

The question is, are you?

Yup.

VOTE: Syryana
A "yes" would have been more convincing than a "yup".

Are you for real?

[Syryana]

Basically, Edos accidentally put the link to the Scum QT in the role PM examples. Crand saw them, and knew we were scum. He told Edos about this, and then asked to be replaced because he can't scumhunt when he knows who the scum are. Edos posted saying that Crand was being replaced because of the debacle, which ended up unintentionally confirming his slot as town. Because of that, Edos figured it would be better to just restart the game.

...At least that's what I think happened.

Pedit:

Grim, why are you re-RVSing?

Syryana, you too. Unless you believe that your vote on me was a legitimate vote.

That's pretty much what happened.

I will answer your question to me in a bit.

[Syryana]

What do you mean, 'for real'? Don't you agree? A "yup" shows half-heartedness, where a "yes" would have shown more commitment to what you are saying.

@Candillan: because it keeps things moving. A single static random vote doesn't do it for me, I prefer to move it around for minor reasons and see where that takes me.

I asked if you were for real because I couldn't tell if you were serious or trolling. And I'm not entirely sure what planet you're from, but on mine, yup means yes.

Hi everybody. Sorry for brutally crashing the last game into the ground!

VOTE: Ravenpaw

Calling me darling gives me bad vibes.

Where did she call you darling?

Here.

I can't see this anywhere, neither here or in the "title pending"-game.

Are you referring to your scumQT conversation and have we got a nice scumslip on our hands?

Let's see!

VOTE: Crandaja

(out of RVS)

You didn't look very hard. Opportunistic much?

VOTE: Grimgroove

[Syryana]

My mistake, but I only looked at the last couple of posts by Ravenpaw, which is only sensible.
I feel my point still stands.
Why on earth would Crandaja be referring to a word in a post made 12 days ago? Why would that kind of thing stick and why would bad vibes from that post be carried over to a new game?
He didn't mention it gave him bad vibes back then, why now?
I would also prefer it if you would let Crandaja answer that question this time around. Don't see why you're so eager jumping to his defense.

I'm not so much defending Crand as attacking you. It raises my suspicions when someone that played the way you did last game (i.e. made great arguments and generally obvtowned the slot) starts shooting off half-cocked and making arguments like these (e.g. "darling, was that a SCUMSLIP?!" or "I don't like the word yup, you must be scum").

I do, however, like your point about the darling thing being last game. Seems pretty forced for an RVS post.

Why not answer it right away? You even took your time exploring the other topic for the word "darling".

And about me being opportunistic, I don't think that's really an argument. I saw a possible scumslip, let my enthousiasm get me carried away and indeed saw an opportunity to lynch scum. Maybe it's opportunistic yes, but that kind of opportunism doesn't make me scum.

I didn't answer it because my re-RVS post/vote on you was intended to garner a reaction from you. I hadn't as yet gotten it, so I refused to answer Cand at that time. What I was looking for: if you were serious I figured it was an opportunistic attack to paint me as scummy early, since at the end of last game you admitted I'm one of the biggest obstacles to your scum wincon.

As for taking the time to look in the other thread, you directly said there was no mention of it in this thread or title pending. I decided to verify that statement. Turns out it was a lie and I nailed you for it.

And it is scummily opportunistic, because from my POV you seized on a silly thing, call it a scumslip, and voted Crand. Scum like mislynches.

My main beef with you right now is that in the last game you obvtowned like crazy; excellent logic, walls of well reasoned arguments, good reads. This game, you're hopping all over everywhere, attacking me, attacking Crand; it's shooting from the hip playstyle. I can't decide if you're this different because it's your town play or if you've drawn scum again and you're breaking from your own playstyle so as not to get caught.

While I'm chewing over that:
VOTE: Crandaja

[Syryana]

I'm gettin my reaction tests mixed with my reaction tests

The re-RVS was a reaction test on Cand

The question at Grim was looking for a response from Grim

[Syryana]

Cand, why do you have a townread on me already

[Syryana]

I feel slightly better about you now

[Syryana]

I would also like to point out that finding the darling thing took like 30 seconds

I highly recommend CTRL-F to everyone, as well as that little button that says ISO right next to the Post number of each post. It shows you all posts by that user by themselves.

It's really awesome for finding things some specific person has said quickly.

[Syryana]

If you hadn't read, how would you know we're out of RVS?

[Syryana]

We need more input from people that are not me, Cand, or Grimgroove

The mod has more posts than everyone else

[Syryana]

Yep

Threads been open for 2 days, we have 3 pages and 3 people making those pages

I dont want Lurkfest 2.0

[Syryana]

You are quite right. I hate lurking.

Here's my thoughts at this point:

Syryana - He was the second one to vote Grimgroove, and then, right after the third vote to Grimgroove, he pulled his vote and moved it to somene else. Is it because Syryana and Grimgroove are scums? Did Syryana wanted his first vote to be on his scum-pal and then, when he saw a wagon coming he decided it was too risky?

This isn't the first time someone's scum-read me for having a jumpy vote. If you want, feel free to look at what happened in this game before the reroll; you can see the same behaviors there.

Grimgroove - His RVS was Candillan. He then started a very stupid "yes vs. yup" discussion. If my theory is right, it could be planned by those two in advance.

You have a theory: Grim and I are scum together. However, in reference to this point, you are making the evidence fit the case, rather than making the case fit the evidence. I agree with you that the "yes vs. yup" argument was extremely stupid, but does the exchange between Grim and myself sound forced and planned? What about that exchange makes you think he and I are scum together?

Candillan - He points out in post 33 how

Syryana

's explaining

Grimgroove

is a scum and then voting

Crand

is odd. I think it's another evidence of Syryana and Grimgroove both being scums. I hope I'm not tunneling here. Anyway, to me Candillan lean town right now.

You are leaning town on Candillan because he pointed out the oddity in my post. Yet in the same post, he says he's leaning town on me for it. Why do you think that is? Also, did you see my reasoning near the bottom of that post as to why I'm voting Crand over Grim?

[Syryana]

I don't like my "yes vs yup"-thing being called

stupid

several times now, but I guess that given the opinion of the majority, it was. I still don't like "yups" and I never will, but maybe we're from a different generation.
Anyway, regardless of this, even if it was stupid, there's only so many ways of getting out of an RVS asap, and I'm still glad we made it out relatively fast, even with half of the people not participating.

Grim, you have my apologies. I did not intend to offend; where I come from "yes, yeah, yep, yup" etc. are all synonyms and to have someone claim otherwise just made my head explode.

It's not the actual jumpiness, it's the timing. Here you did it right after he got his third vote. Before the reroll you just jumped from one to another (at least in the first three pages that I skimmed over there).

I'd tell you my reasoning behind it, but I can't discuss an ongoing game. Let me simply say I'm rather paranoid of derp Page 1 RVS lynches right now.

Also, did you see my reasoning near the bottom of that post as to why I'm voting Crand over Grim?

No, I didn't see any reasoning for that. Can you elaborate?

My main beef with you right now is that in the last game you obvtowned like crazy; excellent logic, walls of well reasoned arguments, good reads. This game, you're hopping all over everywhere, attacking me, attacking Crand; it's shooting from the hip playstyle. I can't decide if you're this different because it's your town play or if you've drawn scum again and you're breaking from your own playstyle so as not to get caught.

While I'm chewing over that:
VOTE: Crandaja

[Syryana]

Syryana - Oh, wait, did you mean that in 32 you were referring to Cran in the last paragraph? I thought you were still talking about Grimgroove!

Ohhh, I see now. You weren't asking why I wasn't voting Grim, you're asking why I'm voting Crand. I'm retarded. That paragraph I linked is about Grim.

I'm voting Crand because I found it suspicious that his RVS reason to vote Raven was based on a post made two weeks ago. I didn't know why that stuck in his mind and I was pressure voting him. Now I'm thinking about it, this was his response:

I have some problems with this. You ask where she called me darling, then 25 minutes later you say you can't see it in Title Pending. ISO button makes it really easy to see all of Raven's posts and one of the only interactions we had between one another was the one where she called me darling. Its really not hard to find if you looked in that thread (which you said yourself you did) especially not in 25 minutes.

I think your first statement that its only sensible to check the last few messages is flawed. If you think its not important to check the thread than it wouldn't have been so important for you to not find it there. Without doing the search how would you know if she said it or not? Why do you assume its from the scum QT without reading the whole thread?

When I was doing an RVS at the start of this game i didn't want to vote Grim right away to avoid getting him too close to L-1 without any discussion. I saw Ravenpaw's post and decided to vote her as my RVS. It was the only thing I really remember about her from last game.

Also Cand why do you keep putting the third vote on people so quickly without discussion? You've done this twice already in this game alone and I don't like it.

His response was interestingly defensive. I mean, it was an RVS vote, so why get so defensive about it? In this post, Crand:

• Attacks Grim for not noticing that Raven called Crand darling in the previous game (note, I had already done so and over half his post is dedicated to lashing Grim for not noticing/not properly using search tools)
  
• Defends his RVS vote by explaining he wanted to vote for Grim but didn't want to put him at L-1 (nobody asked him this question, so why is he answering it, again overdefensive)
  
• Asks Cand why he keeps putting the third vote on people (it looks like a deflection, note how he implies Cand is scummy for putting people at L-2)

So, all in all, I'm pretty happy with my vote where it is.

[Syryana]

I want votes/reads from Rach and shaboo.

I'm still pretty happy with my Crand vote, though.

Cand case is interesting, we'll have to see where it goes.

[Syryana]

@Mod, requesting prod/replacement on shaboostein, whichever you deem appropriate

[Syryana]

The only thing I see from Syryana is his case against me (hence his vote) and while I don't agree with it I get what he's trying to do so I don't have a great read on him.

What are you trying to say here? What am I trying to do?

I was going to mention how weird #141 was, but Cand beat me to it.

[Syryana]

Whoa. We have a new mod?

[Syryana]

I don't find him scummy anymore.

Why not?

[Syryana]

Him being Crandaja

[Syryana]

I am calm.

Grim, if you can't restrain yourself we're going to have to take steps.

Here's the thing Candy (and others): If I were to give null reads to town comments, just because that person was scum once, then nearly every "townie" comment could be misconstrued as as a scum/null one.

What you're suggesting is that Grimgroove couldn't possibly provide any townie vibes his game, because any townie vibes could theoretically be scum vibes. I don't feel like poisoning that well.

This.

[Syryana]

SO MANY WALLS, I MAKE MOAR

As I said before its not OMGUS. I don't care about you voting me but you made a pretty significant accusation and contradicted yourself instantly. This and the ridiculous yes vs. yep paint you as a scum.

Can you link where Grim is contradicting himself? Also, why does the yes vs. yep argument indicate Grim is scum?

Candillan, Crandaja, Ravenpaw are in my top 3 scumreads. I'm planning to give a full reads list (probably tomorrow) of every player here to clarify this. Need to IC some more people.

I assume you mean ISO, not IC? I will be interested to see your cases.

This and the ridiculous yes vs. yep paint you as a scum.

Since shaboostein is being replaced, and this really rubbed me the wrong way:

Shaboostein is not being replaced yet, I don't think? What rubbed you the wrong way about Crand's post?

Grim, I think the yes vs yep argument was pretty weak too, but it was coming soon after RVS and it was an attempt to generate discussion/content, which is why I don't see it as that scummy. If you had pulled that argument now that we have decent data to go through I would've found it much worse.

You, I like you.

PS: This post gave me massive scumvibes. Hard to put my finger on why it does, but I'll try to elaborate later.

Do elaborate. I liked that post.

So much to do! I guess I should be glad activity is so low here. What is it with you guys? It's even worse than before, on top of RachMarie and shaboo being their usual inactive selves, Ravenpaw seems to have decided to join them and also Syryana seems less involved than last time.

What conclusions do you make about the lack of activity from myself and Raven?

Why is it a bad thing to pressure you? If you're town, pressure brings out the town in you. There's no need to be so sensitive to someone trying to pressure you.
Starting from the second sentence you're dismissing what I said with mere hollow phrases but you did not prove that my argument does not make sense. It does. I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did. It makes absolutely no sense to do this as scum: the risk of it flying back into my face far outweighs the supposed benefit of pressuring someone you know is town based on a false argument. If you know it's a false argument, you know the pressure is not going to ammount to anything. I didn't know it was a false argument, and therefore used it until shown otherwise.

There is a scumslip in here. Town points to whomever finds it!

So much to do! I guess I should be glad activity is so low here. What is it with you guys? It's even worse than before, on top of RachMarie and shaboo being their usual inactive selves, Ravenpaw seems to have decided to join them and also Syryana seems less involved than last time.

Yeah I realise I should be giving this game a lot more (as well as my others) but there's just a lot on my plate atm. Sorry.

What do you think of Candillan?

So Grim could be town or scum, and you're pretty much hoping he's town with the knowledge that he could be pulling the wool over your eyes easily? Don't wifom him to scum, just don't be so quick to call him town.

What if he isn't night killed so scum can pin him as scum in LyLo? That's what scum did with me in 1335, because I could easily be pinned as scum.

Also, self meta is also dumb. Don't trust that. Especially when the game he also did it in was a scum game. >_>

You need to not WIFOM too. And self meta is dumb, yes (I personally think it's scummy, which is why I threw a fit about it last game)

What is your read on me?

Hard to say. As I've stated before, I've been having a tough time of assembling reads this game.

Why?

How am I "walking it back"? I'm saying that I don't have a good read on anyone in this game. (Aside from Homer and Syryana, of course.) All the rest of you are null, and I'm having trouble discerning which two are scum. How is that scummy?

Yes, but that doesn't address what I was saying. My point is that it's odd that you'd write him off as town so early when he's been doing the same things he did as scum. You shouldn't do that.

If you think I'm scum, who would be my partner?

Pedit:
Oh, no, it was that I was an easy wagon in that game. They kept me alive to wagon me to death in LyLo.
Similar situation, though. It was a "how come he's still alive?" situation at its fundamentals.
Also, I was town that game.

Are you really going to only suspect Grim if he gets to D3 and is still alive?

There's a scumslip in here too.

LET THE NEWBIE 1368 SCUMSLIP SCAVENGER HUNT BEGIN!
VOTE: Candillan

[Syryana]

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?

Yes, it would have. You don't get town points for finding your own scumslip!

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Oh, did you find that one too?

I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.
2. Those odds are extremely low.
3. I'm still town.

This is quite possibly the most awful rebuttal I've ever seen. Sorry, but good lord. Of course you don't find the interactions between the two of you suspicious. Appeal to probability confirms your alignment.

Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.

Or you're scum, and you're not wanting to call any of us town because you need to mislynch people. Besides, finding teams is a complete waste of time on Day 1.

Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?

I flipped a coin.

Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.

Because his posts come from a town mindset.

If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?

It probably got lost in the walls or I wasn't paying attention.

UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~

If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:

TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM

I forgot to ask, why are me and homer town again?

Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.

I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?

No. I'm also rather disappointed you didn't attack Cand's last post.

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Did you actually find it or are you pretending you did?

I did find something. Not sure if it's what he found, though.

Let the rest look for it. Neither of you are getting points for finding scumslips.

[Syryana]

PS: you just asked the same question to Candillan (why he thinks you and Homer are town), yet you dismissed my post where I did it with a simple "no".
This makes me a hurt gladiator

I dismissed it with a no because I thought you were saying that was the slip. You also didn't directly ask Cand about it.

[Syryana]

Syryana, you forgot to reply in your eagerness to dismiss my percieved scumslip from Candillan. Also, when it comes to scumslip, the one you pinted out from Candillan is dissappointingly weak. When I think of "scumslip" I think of something scum would say that would incriminate close to 100%. Like a reference to a QT for example. Not something that can be interpreted in any way, or which simply consitutes a choice of formulation. Scumslips are about meaning, not formulation.

Of course you think it's weak. He's your scumbuddy. And what did I forget to reply to?

I'm sorry that you have to read through the meta discussion, blegh.

@Grim, I think that scumslip was quite the nice catch, actually. Unfortunately, it wasn't actually a slip.

If you buddied me any harder...

I like the way Grim analyzes things. It gets him some town points in my view (BTW, Syryana, where's the scumslip in Grim's post? I can't find it). However, I didn't understand this part:

I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?

I think the "of course" part is just a reference to a previous post, in which he said this:

I am seriously trying to gather reads, but I've been terrible at it this time around. I do seriously see Homer and Syryana as townie, though. I was leaning town on you, but your jumping on this case is making me doubt that somewhat. It seems a wee bit too convenient.
Also, if you really saw this as being so scummy, why aren't you voting me?

Rach, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked you in 136.

imkingdavid and mkfuba07, welcome! As soon as you catch up, I want to here your thoughts on the game so far.

I will reveal Grim's scumslip later today. I was hoping to hear from the new people/Raven/Rach first. Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.

[Syryana]

It felt like trying to get a piece of both sides of the argument, trying to soothe both me and Crandaja. The fact that if I would use the "yes yep" thing later in the game is entirely irrelevant (I didn't and will not), yet he's adding it. If find this addition very odd, and the motives I see: 1. He's trying to make up for his "buddying" towards me (calling me town while nobody else does, there's even disagreement on how similar I act compared to the previous game from what I gather, yet he's claiming that I do behave the same. Even I disagree with that, given the negative attention I have not been entirely able to get into the game as much as I'd like to) by awkwardly showing others I'm not outside of his scope of criticism. 2. As I personally feel this entire yep-yes thing has been dragging on long enough, I also see it as an easy way to come off as a sensible guy who sees both sides of the story. Too easy and with no added value. Why do you like it so much?

This?

Well, he's agreeing with Crand that the "yes vs yep" thing was a silly argument, but he doesn't see it as scummy like Crand did because of the timing of the argument. It doesn't read like buddying to me and scum would be more interested in coming down on one side or another in the hopes of getting a mislynch.

How would you know? You only knew me as scum in the previous game, and now you're supposedly assuming I'm scum as well.

This may sound a bit arrogant (and if it does my apologies), but if you can fool me as thoroughly as you did last game I'm fine making the assumption that you can look town as either alignment, particularly since you have admitted you play the same way regardless.

Pedit: Trying to drag this into WIFOM-land?

[Syryana]

Of the points in that leprechaun-flavored quote; I have responded already to points 3 and 5, point 1 I am still waiting on, point 4 is your answer to my question, point 2 is also no longer of relevance since I'm not interested in Crand anymore.

So I'm not entirely sure what you're wanting a full response to.

It was already WIFOM to start with, don't pretend otherwise.

The scumslips are not WIFOM. Your response to Candillan's was.

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

[Syryana]

You claiming that my response to Candillan's scumslip is easily explained by him being my buddy is WIFOM.

Why aren't you interested in Crand anymore? Simply because he's replaced? the slot got an entire refresh? You realize the slot has still the same role behind it, do you?
Post 178 is as much about me as it is about Crand. What do you think about it? What was it that made you interested in the answer to your question (2) and why isn't it anymore?

How do you read Ravenpaw?

Ah, I thought you were saying the scumslip itself was WIFOM. Fair enough.

As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.

Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.

I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.

Into the arena I go, my emperor.

What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.

Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?

I still find this laughable when it comes to scumslips. I hope for your sake you have a better one on me, considering how you've been raising expectations.

Funny call on Grim, I missed it.

Like I said earlier: I think he's pretending he found it. Late ron he claims to have "misread the quote" and dropped the whole thing. Very silly. Would still like to see how he misread it, and what it was he saw.

I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.

Bad argument, but it doesn't change the fact that it's up to you (Syryana) to show where they're bad in order for you to back up your opinion on me and Candillan being scumbuddies.

2. Those odds are extremely low.

Very bad argument indeed.

3. I'm still town.

Meh, not a tell either way.

Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.

IWondering why he's not trying a different approach if his current one isn't working. But I also see some possible pairs so I do get what he's trying to say. (Crandaja-Ravenpaw; Syryana-LnGrrrR, for example)

Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?

fair question

Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.

fair question

If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?

fair question. Surprised you didn't refer to the fact we had a discussion about self-meta in the previous game, where I already made my point on self-meta clear. Why would you use it against me now, when you didn't then?

UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~

If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:

TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM

Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.

I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?

PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?

I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).

A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.

I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.

About your scumreads: Candillan's in there for show. Look at your voting patterns. You voted him once early early on in the game (in RVS actually) and you haven't touched him since. If Candyland gets lynched, or close, you can bus him with almost no repercussion. However, judging from your knee-jerk reaction to my scumslip proclamation (e.g. can't find the slip, calling it lame, not attacking Candillan's horrendous rebuttal until I mention it), you weren't serious about your scumread on him. Though you've made any number of references to things Candillan's done you don't like, you've never made any effort to push a wagon on him.

Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)

Why did you put scumslip in between " "s here?

Because you don't think it's legit.

[Syryana]

How do you read Ravenpaw?

I forgot to answer this. Answer: I dunno, she's being a lurky-pants.

[Syryana]

And the gloves come off. It's about damn time. I'll be breaking my responses into smaller, easier to read posts.

As a general rule, I like to get input from replacements. I don't erase what their predecessor did but I do like to judge the replacement on their own merits.

How does this compute with "I'm not interested in Crand anymore"? (post 229

Wrt 178: He was being anti-town about it, yes. I don't see it as scummy, though. You go after him, he OMGUS' you, then tunnels you thereafter. Seen it happen with newbies before. Hell, I've done it myself.

Why did you think he was scummy, if not that?

Originally the "darling" comment and I found his responses inadequate.

I was interested in fleshing out your thought process. I thought Crand was scummy myself and wanted to know how your reasons matched up with mine. Since I've now found the scumteam, I no longer care.

Your conviction is either has proven to be a powerful tool in the past and you're using it with bad intentions, or I'm afraid we're dealing with a "Caesar".

Caesar indeed. Do elaborate.

Into the arena I go, my emperor.

What is it with people buddying me this game? First Candyland with all his "Syr is so town" stuff and now you with the "Caesar/Emperor" comments.

Do you seriously consider this at buddying? My goodness . I thought the reference is clear. Twice when I've used this symbolism it was referring to your attitude of pitching me against Candillan, just like Caesar would do to his gladiators. You sit there on your tribune and let us sort it out. I'm playing along but don't think I don't notice what you're doing. I don't like these puppetmaster-questions, as the "assignments" you give already show your clear bias.

Ah, you're being insulting. I see. So, I'm Caesar because I'm pitting you and Candillan against each other, is that it? Kindly point out where I'm "playing the puppetmaster". Also, since you apparently find this behavior scummy (you've certainly implied it) why haven't you confronted me about it instead of making snide little comments?

I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?

Scummier, mainly because of his 3 numbered points. Now you answer the questions contained therein please. I get the feeling you've been buying an awful lot of time for yourself lately.

I have answered all the questions contained therein in #207. Again with the insinuations.

PS: What's the point of not sharing my scumslip? Why does it give townie points to whoever finds it? Why wouldn't scum be able to find it?

I have proclaimed Candillan to be among my main scumreads before, and I'm sure if you ISO me you'll find reasons why I did (in attendance of my full reads list). Why then proceed later on to claim I'm dismissing arguments against Candillan simply because they're directed against him (cfr. his scumslip).

A thing that strikes me as very odd, and this is directed to both Ravenpaw and Candillan: what happened to your buddying? I've seen close to none of it this game.

I'm not sharing your scumslip because I want to see if anyone else finds it. Besides, watching you squirm makes me giggle.

Squirming? Misrep.

No, interpretation.

[Syryana]

Other priorities. You can only have one vote on one person at a time. Are you saying that when you have your vote against someone, you don't have any arguments against anyone else? That you don't bother to make comments about them? Even if I didn't vote, I'd like to think my comments on Candillan helped other people to think about him in a scummy light. What do you think of the references I did make? Did they sound insincere by themselves, or just because there was no vote accompanying them.

This is important, so it gets its own quote. You have misrepped what I said. My point was not that you never had a Candillan scumread, or that you cannot have more than one read/argument/whatever at a time. I said that of your scumreads, Candillan is the one you have pushed the least. In your 60+ post ISO, you have four posts indicating a scumread on his slot: your agreement with LnGrrrR's case (#108), your ISO of Candillan (#112), your response to Candillan's response (#152), and the post where you call Candillan one of your top three scumreads (#173).

My point here is, though you have made a few mentions of what you find scummy in Candillan, you have made no move to push his wagon or pursue that read. It is especially noticeable when Candillan makes what is (in my opinion) the scummiest post in the game, #199, you don't even glance at it twice, instead concentrating on me pretty much to exclusion of all else until I directly ask you to look at it. That's why I feel your scumread on Candillan is not genuine.

[Syryana]

I'd also like to make yet another additional point on Candillan's supposed scumslip.
What everyone is doing, both town and scum, is somehow conveying the message that they're town, in between the lines. Some are more blunt and state it directly, but that would be showing a certain eagerness to show that you're town that is not appreciated by everone.
Fate has it that this happened in this very topic, on the first page. Candillan stated in caps that he's town this time. Syryana changed his RVS vote (let's assume re-RVS) and said Candillan was too eager to show he's town. Granted, it was a possible RVS and therefore not necessarily a serious motivation, but it could be taken as one. I myself don't find the simple statement "I'm town" convincing at all, and in fact think it has a more scummy aura around it.
Anyway, moving to the "scumslip". Candillan said "I was town that game", Syryana would have preferred "I was town that game, too".
Given the RVS argument, I can easily see Syryana use the wording he supposedly preferred against Candillan just as easily, by saying he's too eager in emphasizing he's town in this game.
This wasn't a scumslip. This was simply Candillan not being over-eager to state he's town (for a change).
Given Syryana used both arguments (though yes, once he used it in RVS), it seems like he's betting on any horse that could get Candillan lynched, even if they're running in opposite directions.

And yet you do not find it odd, given Candillan's eagerness to show himself town in both this game and the prior, that he simply stops doing so in that post? Given his state of mind at the time (I believe he admitted a couple of posts later that he hadn't slept in 48 hours, the madman) do you find it feasible that he suddenly stops playing what seems to be his normal game and directly implies he is not town?

[Syryana]

It isn't buddying. It's a read. I read you as town. That comes with a lack of suspicion angled your way with an added hint of friendliness for not being scum. Sorry if that doesn't float your boat.

If it was just a hint it wouldn't bug me so much. I'll dig through your ISO for examples in a minute.

[Syryana]

Syryana, do you honestly think Grim and I are a scumteam? That push is quite odd, to be honest. I don't understand how you could see our interactions as being scummy, and your points on this don't make sense to me. You're saying that we're scumbuddies because the way we're acting independently is scummy, and also that the way Grim is interacting with me is scummy. What do you think of the way I interact with Grim?

I think many of you are operating under a chicken and egg misinterpretation here. I am not calling you and Grim a scumteam due to associative tells (indicators the two of you are a team). I am saying that you made a scumslip and Grim made a scumslip. Since there are only two scum team members, that means that since you scumslipped and he scumslipped, you must be a team together. Looking at the interactions between the two of you this game, I find the idea plausible. I have not at any point pushed the idea that the interactions between the two of you are scummy, merely that they do not show you aren't.

[Syryana]

Why is it a bad thing to pressure you? If you're town, pressure brings out the town in you. There's no need to be so sensitive to someone trying to pressure you.
Starting from the second sentence you're dismissing what I said with mere hollow phrases but you did not prove that my argument does not make sense. It does.

I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did.

It makes absolutely no sense to do this as scum: the risk of it flying back into my face far outweighs the supposed benefit of pressuring someone you know is town based on a false argument. If you know it's a false argument, you know the pressure is not going to ammount to anything. I didn't know it was a false argument, and therefore used it until shown otherwise.

The slip is the bolded. Grim is arguing that he would not have used the scumtell approach if he knew for a fact that it was not true, since it would come back to bite him in the ass. (For reference, the scumtell-approach referred to here is the "darling" comment, see post #26).

In context, Grim is arguing with Crandaja. Crand thought Grim was scummy for interpreting the "darling" RVS vote as a scumtell. Grim counters by arguing that he would not use such an approach as scum. He says specifically:

I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did.

So Grim's argument is that he's not scummy because using such an approach as scum when he knows the accusation is false would be ludicrous. However, since Grim did

not

know the accusation was false (he admits he did not notice the "darling" comment came from the previous game, I caught him on that myself), he essentially admits here that he did in fact use the scumtell-approach. Look at his word choice: "I would not have used". Not "I would not use" or "Using that approach would be foolish", etc. He admits he used the approach.

If we temper the above statement with the following facts:
Grim did not know the accusation was false.
Grim used the scumtell approach.

The statement becomes:

I used the scumtell-approach because I didn't know it wasn't true.

Ergo, Grimgroove is scum and tried to force a mislynch on Crandaja.

[Syryana]

I'm not implying I'm not town ever, lol.
Wouldn't that be playing against my wincon?
Yeah but the fact that you bring up Grim's ways of dealing with me, you're talking association. You can't say you aren't.
What if one of us flips town?

Not deliberately, no.
It would be if you did it deliberately. That's why they refer to it as a slip, since it's unintentional.
That's true. I am saying that associatively, it makes sense for you and Grim to be partners based on the interactions between you. I was merely clarifying that those associations are not what led me to the scumreads on you two as individuals.
Then I will re-evaluate my stances.

[Syryana]

I still don't see your point I'm afraid.

Hypothesis: "I wouldn't do this as scum if I knew it was wrong."
Evidence: "I did this."
"I did not know it was wrong."
Conclusion: "I did this as scum."

I don't know of a better way to put it.

[Syryana]

No reply?

Forgot to go back to it. The two statements have nothing to do with each other. I'm not interested in Crand because I've got two solid scum candidates. If I were interested in Crand, I would judge his predecessor on his own merits (which his intro post was excellent, by the by).

I have confronted you with it. I was under the assumption the "little snide comments" were not lacking in clarity. And you did notice in the end, didn't you? Still don't see how you could possibly percieve this as buddying.

Because your snide little comments were lacking in clarity. If I were to refer to someone as "my emperor", that seems to me a clear acknowledgment of superiority, which I interpreted as buddying.

Where you're playing the puppetmaster:
post 207: "No. I'm also rather disappointed you didn't attack Cand's last post."
post 229: "Since we're speaking of Candillan, what do you think of his response to his "scumslip"? (#199)" (referring to the same post)
post 233: "I'll ask more directly: does it make him scummier or townier?"

Hah, that's not puppeteering, that's trying to get you to take a stance on Candillan's scumposting, which up to that point you were staunchly refusing to do.

1. Again? I never made insinuations unless I have something to back them up, making them more than just insinuations. Show me where I made insinuations before.

Your Caesar comments leap to mind. Several comments on "squirming", "buying more time", etc. Subtly implying that just about every damn thing I do is scum-motivated.

2. You didn't. I see two questions you hadn't answered at the time, and only one you half-answered at this point. The questions are about my interactions with Candillan and about my stance on self-meta.

Just restate the questions.

[Syryana]

Looking at my supposed scumslip I'm even more confident in saying you've got absolutely nothing on me.

You scumslipped again. Town wouldn't be concerned about whether or not I "had something" on them.

[Syryana]

...I feel really fucking stupid. Like ungodly stupid.

That being said, I hate that in my mind I am able to use this logic to clear Grim as a townie.

Why is this a bad thing? At least something useful came out of my dumbfuckery.

Unless I'm missing something, your case against him here is a twisting of words to make him look scummy. I did not like your supposed Candi "scum slip", and I do not like this supposed Grim "scum slip". I am happy with my vote where it is.

Fair enough. What do you think of Cand/Grim's responses to my accusations?

There is no scum motive in saying that; I was falsely accused of attempting to shoplift from a jewelry store and simply stated a fact that the accuser had no evidence to convict me of anything.

I think you need to stop fabricating scum slips in posts just to further your agenda, which I can only assume is detrimental to the town as a whole.

Yeah, we've established I'm a damned idiot. I'm curious though; if I'm scum like you think, what's the point of saying the bolded? As scum the whole point of my existence is to be a detriment to the town. Why are you telling me to stop being anti-town if you believe me to be scum?

[Syryana]

Why do you think it's "the scummiest post in the game"? I think at this point you are trying to deflect us from your scumslip to other's supposed scumslips.

I liked the way David analyzed things. I think your 289 is you trying to cover your not-so-honest mistakes and I don't think you are a "dumb" or "idiot". I think you're just a scum.

What is it with all these replacements requests in this game? Is it normal?

Largely because I got to the point of confirmation bias about it. I reread the post today, and I realized that what I thought were deflections were actually just legitimate questions and that I was placing too much importance on Candillan's appeal to probability.

I did not make a scumslip.

When I flip town, who will be your scumreads?

[Syryana]

No big deal, but for the record, the last quote in your post (#289) you have attributed to yourself, when I actually said it.

I'm not interested in credit. Stuff happened, Grim townread resulted.

Scum slip: "is to be" vs "would be to be"
It's the same thing you tried to pull on Grim.

Noted.

[Syryana]

Sorry to hear that but why is it only after imkingdavid said his thing you realized this? I said almost the exact same thing with regards to my supposed slip in 284 and you didn't even respond to that.

@Imkingdavid: If you're not comfortable with that reasoning making me almost as good as conftown, you can always try taking it into WIFOM, but I don't think that would be a healthy exercise.

About the Caesar-thing I feel I have to insist on apologizing again (without expecting Syryana to accept those apologies, but I kind of feel bad about it), but I really felt the comparison was more funny than mean at the time. At least it was meant this way. I happen to like metaphors and thought it worked quite well in this case. I shall refrain from this practice in the future.

You're fine, I'm not offended. And I didn't realize it when you said it because you did not explain the logical jumps in simple words of one syllable or less like david did. Besides I was so far convinced you were the scum you could probably have posted your role PM and I'd have called you a liar at that point.

I'll take a look at David's logic again later after I get done responding to the rest of this.

Pedit: Okay.

[Syryana]

I don't think Syr is scum, I don't think Grim is scum. The argument felt pretty townie from both sides, both of them defending their viewpoints and pointing out various points about the others.

Why not? What do you think of the arguments against me? What do you think of my "scumslip"?

[Syryana]

I'll deal with the part of this that concerns me first, this topic has more than enough walls in it.

Post 67 I find interesting for two reasons, and both show Syryana having been a bit hypocritical later on in this topic: 1. He's using self-meta, something he later (and before) claimed to hate. When Candillan asked him why Syryana hadn't critisized my use of self-meta (when I referred to making silly arguments to try start off the Title Pending game just like I did here with yes-yep), Syryana said it was mainly because he missed it in the midst of walls (post 207). I think it was because this attack would have made him an obvious hypocrit. 2. He says homertv is making a mistake by assuming Syryana-Grimgroove is a scumpair and then later try to make the evidence fit the case. Syryana did the same thing with me and Candillan.

You're absolutely right, on both counts. I

did

use self-meta even though I hate it. I also am guilty of the same thing I warned homer against: I found what I thought were damning scumslips from both of you and went balls to the wall to prove myself right.

His post 169 sounds odd because of the sarcastic joke. I take it he agrees with me I'm in no need to calm down. While this post gives off the vibes I'm leaning town for him, there's a drastic switch in his next post 198 where the scumslip thing starts. About that I don't feel like adding too much, as I feel an adequate summary has been given by imkingdavid in post 253. I would like to point out Syryana's own scumslip in post 222, where he claims that I'm able to appear reasonable as either alignment. Given he only saw me as confscum, it's as if he's implying I'm conftown here in this phrase. Only scum would know I'm town but not treat me as such. I realize it's debatable but I find this slip more telling than the ones he had on me or Candillan.

I was making an "Anger Management-esque" joke at you, yes. I was in fact leaning town on you at the time. Then, in my next post, I was approximately like "Is that... yes! It's a scumslip!", at which point the whole balls to the wall snowball started.

Again, it's not a scumslip. I was mightily impressed at how townie you looked as scum last game and I find it a reasonable assumption to make that you can do it as town too. So I was telling homer (albeit in a roundabout way) that being reasonable and logical is not a towntell for you; it is null.

Syryana's my main scumread, BUT I'm wary of a tunnel. His attack on me was quite intense and given my personal involvement I want to be wary of any OMGUS'ing or tunneling because of what happened. The switch in 198 was very striking, and right now I feel it's scummy.

But the possibility exists this is just Syryana getting carried away with the scumslips he found, convincing himself he's right up to the point of no return.

I was almost on the same track in my case against Crandaja but I got proven wrong more quickly (also because I shared the scumslip I thought I found immediately). But the fact that his arguments don't sound "honest" still makes him scummy in my book. Another reason why the argument would hold up for me but not for him is that the Crandaja-scumslip I found was objectively refutable, while those Syryana tried to use were more debatable and open to subjective interpretation, making it entirely possible for people to follow his train of thought. It's only when imkingdavid stated his opinion that Syryana turned around his cart, claiming he was feeling stupid.

Not that I expect you to believe me, but the bolded is exactly what happened, for the record.

[Syryana]

I don't even know anymore Cand, I need to step back from this game for a while. Come back later, with a clear head, reread everything. Most of my viewpoints are tainted by bias in one way or another at this point.

[Syryana]

Nice catch on how Syryana hasn't been here since his 180. I didn't really notice, but that may just be because it's the weekend. Almost no one posts here anyway. I wouldn't expect much from the weekend, lol.

I actually have been around and posting on site. I've just been deliberately avoiding this game; as I said in my earlier post I wanted to leave for a bit and come back with a clear head, as my game before I left was pitiful and frankly unacceptable. I needed a few days to air out and get a fresh perspective.

I'll be rereading the game more in depth later tomorrow, but I can say just from looking at recent posting that RachMarie is getting very suspect. She still hasn't done anything except pressure another lurker slot; no reads, no desire to move the game along, nothing. Heck, she didn't even comment on the large mess that was me vs. Grim. That said:

VOTE: RachMarie

Furthermore, I can now say with nearly 100% certainty that both Grimgroove and Candillan are town. Here's why:

I somehow find Syryana's defense strangely convincing, despite the lack of actual arguments. It just sounds very genuine. Not really sure what to make of that.

The things that made Syryana go Town-->Scum were the Slip Grim pointed out and the sudden 180 on Grim.

It could be taken as an AtE, but I'm just stating the facts as is. I'm not sold on a Syryana lynch, as I would prefer a LnGrrrR lynch.

In the above quotes, you can see both Grim and Candillan are expressing reluctance towards my lynch. There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy" etc. Both Grim and Cand know what a pain in the butt I can be, both from this game and the previous one. Here they both have a golden opportunity to mislynch me and come off smelling like roses, yet Cand outright refuses to lynch me (though he now has a scumread) and Grim expresses reluctance and doubt since he believes my departure posts were genuine. I do not believe either player would pass up this opportunity to lynch me if they were scum, not when both have fairly ironclad reasons to see me strung up. Therefore, both are town.

[Syryana]

A couple of things I noticed from homer:

First, you mean "if", not "when".
Second - Well, I do have other suspects as I already said before and there are other players to consider, such as shaboostein / mkfuba07, or rach, that didn't answer to what I asked her on 136 for example. Also, she almost didn't say anything about anyone except david.

I meant "when". It may be an "if" for you, but it's a "when" for me. Who are your "other suspects" and why? I'm assuming you are not including {shaboo/mkfuba, Rach} in the list given the structure of the sentence.

Ok, I think you are referring to the "I was town that game" scumslip, right, Grim?

Well, I can see how they both scum, and one of them (Syryana) is trying to buss(*) the other one (Candillan). It wasn't a great attack to begin with ("I was town that game" as opposed to "I was town that game too") and he did thought at that time he caught you in another scumslip, so he would have the chance to divert his vote to you. I'm not saying they both have to be scum together, but IMO it is a possibility. Is it too far fetched?

--------
(*) - I hope I'm using the term "buss" in the right context. It

is

only my second game on this site.

You are using the term "bus" correctly, homer. It means that one scum partner is attempting to get another lynched in order to gain town cred. However, I ask you this: Assuming I am scum and Candillan is my partner, why would I attempt to bus him on Day 1, particularly when he's not in any particular danger of being lynched?

[Syryana]

MAH BEARD
IT HATH BEEN STROKED

Uhm but in all actuality you can't confirm us as town just because we're against a potentially easy mislynch. In fact, one of the reasons why I lost 1335 was because I saw someone as being town due to them not wanting to jump on a mislynch wagon.

You don't have a beard. Besides, the very fact you would even bring this up proves my point, at least about you.

Also, I'm not saying you're town purely because you're avoiding an easy mislynch, I'm saying you're town because you're avoiding mislynching

me

. After the events of last game I find it highly unlikely you'd pass up an opportunity to get me dead with no repercussions. Hence the townread.

[Syryana]

Last game has no bearing on this game. If someone were to want to jump on someone this game based on something (anything) from last game, I would find that scummy. However, just because someone doesn't jump on someone for something in the previous game doesn't make them town; it's just expected that that wouldn't happen. More of a null read IMO.

As for the first half of your quote, personally when I play I always try to point out both sides of a situation, whether I'm scum or not. If I'm scum I'd obviously try to do so in a way in which I still end up on top, but I don't see Candi as any more or less scum for doing this.

You misunderstand. I'm not townreading them for actions they took this game; I'm townreading them for opinions they expressed in postgame w.r.t. threats to their scumgame. I find it terribly hard to believe that they'd pass up an easy opportunity to mislynch me in this current situation after admitting that I'm a big obstacle to them winning as scum.

W.r.t. second half of the quote, I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think your playstyle really applies to Candillan. AFAICT he doesn't even have any completed scumgames and I don't think a response like that would have occurred to him so readily as scum. Perhaps I'm underestimating him, but I still think I'm right.

Homer, thanks for posting your reads. I wanted to make sure you actually had reads and weren't just blowing smoke out of your ass

RachMarie needs death badly. She's been avoiding the hell out of this thread.

[Syryana]

I would love to see Rach follow up on:
Rach (#341) wrote:
meanwhile moving along to ISOs and giving my reads.

She did say she would post on Sunday but never did (#365).

She was posting a lot elsewhere on site, but avoided this game, hence why she needs lynching.

I'm not voting Candi either.

[Syryana]

Syr, why do you believe Candi is town?

Gut feeling, and I don't think Candi woulda passed up on a lynch on me the way he did.

This lack of activity from certain players is really starting to piss me off. Several of us have posted our thoughts and carried on conversation at a reasonable pace, but a significant number of players are either AWOL or are purposely active lurking.

Neither Bane nor mkfuba have even visited the site since Friday. Rach has posted something like 35 times since her last post in this thread but has avoided this game specifically.

Yes, very yes.

Now both Bane and the mk dude need to be prodded... and I am feeling that probably both will end up being replaced (which makes 3 for the one slot uggh not good...) And we still have nothing of substance from that slot it is a big black hole. That bothers me because if that slot is scum, we are less likely to lynch it because two dudes in it both did nothing but lurk, if that slot is town it is extremely anti town of both players to just flake out and lurk. That was my point.

And Syr you have been playing long enough you should have recognized that and tried putting some pressure on that slot.

A choice between putting pressure on a slot that hasn't posted anywhere on site or a slot that has posted on site but not here. Hmm....

1. I am under a fair bit of stress due to a lack of a hearing aid and being 80% deaf, good newa is soon I should have some money so I can get a mold made so I can borrow an over the ear hearing aid until my insurance finally gets off the dime and replaces it.

2. My computer with all my notes and such for all my games died on me. I am sharing a computer with my fiance, which means less time and less notes for me to have. I completely lost ALL my notes I had for this game and a few others and had to start over from scratch.

I'm sorry to hear this

I do find Syr to be hard for me to peg, he does a fair bit of trolly behavior in his posts (more so in non newbie games).

Yeah it took me a while to get back to this game because I knew I would have to redo all the ISOing after losing my notes

That does not necessarily make me scum however, and I am wondering if you are going after an easy lynch. I would say I am an easier lynch than shaboo/mk dude since it is clear that slot is about as non existent as can be, while I have posted some just not as much as I should be.

Umm... Lynching the IC is an easy lynch? Instead of lynching the flake? What?

- His awkward multiple "I'm town" jokes
- His awkward "I don't have a meta" argument
- His null means scum or town comment, which makes no sense. Null does mean they could be either, but he tries to play it off like moving someone to null from scum makes no difference. Remember, he made a comment that he though Grim and I might be a scum team after he listed his reads, and now Grim is upgraded to town with no posted reason.

First two points are null, awkwardness isn't a scumtell
Can you point out where he said the third part?

I understand why you don't want to let the Syryana-thing go. I must shamefully admit he played on my emotions perfectly (maybe without the intention, we'll know later) and I can't help but believe him for now. I do wish he'd get more involved in the game again.

I really wish I was that good as scum

I'm happy with my vote where it is

Someone mentioned they wanted more activity from me, talk to me yo

[Syryana]

I'd say LnGrrrR seems to me more calculated and dispassionate, which in my eyes seems less townie as Can's behaviour

I just did a side-by-side of LnGrrR's ISO in this game and the last one. The difference in tone is amazing. Look at the old game and you can feel the mood in L's posting: emotes, punctuation, word choice. In this one, he uses none of that and feels like this:

Spoiler: It's LnGrrR

Like the difference is astonishing.

Grim, before you leave, talk to me. Who do you wanna lynch today? I'm thinking Rach/LnGrrR scumteam, personally.

[Syryana]

I have a preference for lynching LnGrrrR today, he's got more postings we can work with after he flips. I don't feel we got enough from RachMarie already in this regard, I don't think her lynch would teach us as much as LnGrrrR's would.

You have a point. LnGrrR's interactions are a lot more varied and intricate than Rach's.

VOTE: LnGrrR
L-2

[Syryana]

Grim, claims usually occur at l-2, because if you wait until l-1,

then the scum can just self-hammer to deny information to the town

.

Now

that's

a scumslip.

[Syryana]

It's not really. I'm just reaction testing you. I think you meant to say

quick

hammer, not

self

hammer.

Also I giggled when you rolled your eyes <3

VOTE: RachMarie

[Syryana]

While a quick hammer is possible, I have read a few games where at L-1, the scum voted themselves as the hammer, so there would be one less vote for townies to pry info from. (Then again, I believe it's mentioned in the newbie thread to refrain from this, but still something to be aware of.)

Wait, so you meant self-hammer?

VOTE: LnGrrR

[Syryana]

Why the vote-change?

I switched cause I liked his reaction and was under the impression he misspoke

[Syryana]

Yes, I meant self hammer. In some situations, if the scum sees no way out of a lynch, then if you/they/town/whatever pronoun you want to put here waits until L-1 for the actual claim, then scum can vote themselves as the last vote.

That means the next day you have one less vote to analyze, because obviously you're not going to get any info from the scum's self- hammer.

Yeah, but if you're worried about a self-hammer, you're scum.

[Syryana]

But your vote was put in place before the supposed scumslip. Was his reaction really enough to nullify the other reasons to vote him?

Nope, but then again I'm not exactly thinking the straightest in the world right now teehee

[Syryana]

PEDIT: Syr, that logic makes no sense. How could I be worried about a self- hammer if I'M the one getting run up? I only brought it up in the first place because Grim asked why I claimed at L-2 instead of L-1. The reason to claim at L-2 is more so to prevent self-hammers than quick-hammers, in my opinion.

My head just exploded

[Syryana]

No offence, but you are both being very weird.

You have no idea Grimmy-poo

[Syryana]

I explained to you someone should always claim at L-2. If you want, I can replace "you" with "the town".
"Grim, claims usually occur at l-2, because if the town waits until l-1, then the scum can just self-hammer to deny information to the town."

Nononononononono

you should never claim at L-2

L-2 is recoverable

Claiming at L-2 outs power roles early for no reason

Claiming at L-2 because you're worried about self-hammers is silly

Why are you worried about self hammers

If you're town you won't do it

If scum does it who cares, their claim was gonna be a lie anyways

[Syryana]

But "the town" doesn't have a say in when the claim comes. That's up to the claimer.

@Syryana: Are you drunk?

I plead the fifth

[Syryana]

Glad to see a replacement for at least one person. Looking forward to your reads.

QFT

[Syryana]

I'm here just reading the 19 pages. My third game taking my time trying to take advantage of all the content and interactions between players hoping to find a consistent scum partnership. Don't plan on readng previous game treating this as a new game and never used meta as a tell. Hi all!

Welcome! We look forward to your reads.

[Syryana]

I didn't attack you o_o
How did my post look like an OMGUS attack?

He's saying don't OMGUS him yet, he's not done

Also, everyone misspells my name as 'Candillian'
There's no second "I" ;~;

Hush, Candyland

[Syryana]

Ah, alright, I'll OMGUS him when he's done, then.

This is acceptable.

[Syryana]

I'm not fully caught up but we have Aprox 25 hours to lynch. Someone please explain the case on Lngrr to me.

Long story super short, the tone in his posts this game is dispassionate and emotionless compared to last game.

Spoiler: Longer now

Spoiler: Longer then

[Syryana]

Also, Syryana, I'm offended. That was nowhere near my case on him. ;-;

I posted my case on him. Why would I post yours?

[Syryana]

Can you provide specific examples of posts last game vs this game to better illustrate your point?

Also, is his change in tone the only reason you find him scummy?

Although, I suppose given your "100%" confidence in Candi being town, you're just going for the next most probable lynch, no?

Gimme a minute on that one.
Yes.
I'm not lynching LnGrrR because I don't want to lynch Candyland; I'm lynching LnGrrR because nobody wants to lynch Rach.

[Syryana]

So it's basically meta? Not sure if I like that. And by not sure I mean I don't. Anything more specific?

Part meta, part tone analysis.

Spoiler: Have a look at LnGrrR last game

Not posting IS scummy. That said, if someone comes out and says, "Hey guys, I'm ACTUALLY town, but I just figured, why don't we mass claim all the power roles so we can coordinate during the night chat? "... Then I reserve the right to swing my vote over to them.

Numberfour, technically we don't have to lynch, but its better for us to lynch because otherwise we give the mafia a "free" kill. Also, you're off my list.

You know we are eventually going to have to lynch right? If we don't lynch the first day, then we are one person down, and we have no way to reliably look at info for the first day and analyze based on scum/townie flip. So we would be back to square one. How a person votes for a lynch is probably the most important information to review. Or we could just all talk about sports and the weather until the mafia picks us all off one by one.

Grimgroove is quite correct in his assessment of what list I was talking about. Thanks for saving me the trouble of explaining.

That said UNVOTE: , VOTE: Archetype.

It's likely that he will be prodded anyways, but I haven't read enough from others to get any strong townie/scum reads.

EBWODP: Er, I meant quieter, not quoted. Damn you autocorrect!!!!

Maybe the title is "Title Pending"

Blah!

VOTE: RachMarie

There

Yeah I get that slow games suck but what if he's a PR? And if he never comes back then we'll get a replacement, so either way it's better to wait and see. In the meantime if Number4 is scum, there's still one other scum we can be hunting for while we wait for him.

The other scum is probably Rachel :p

God, we would've lost so bad. Though I think Candy and Raven's overt buddying would've caught up with them.

Spoiler: Look at him now

OOC: Thanks Candy. I'm near the St Louis area. So far nothin too bad, though our tree in the backyard broke a little and we will probably have to take it down. No more shade for us.

The second spoiler doesn't actually even need the spoiler, really. I grabbed all the posts with an emotional tone (be it joking, happy, sad, whatever) from the first game I found on quick inspection of his ISO from the first game and this game. See the difference? You can see his mood in his posting in the first game: cracking jokes, easily interacting with others on a not-game level (e.g. joking, little asides not related to Mafia, etc.). Here his posting is almost purely mechanical; he's simply acting and reacting in accordance to stimuli thrown his way. It really shows when I can only find one post in his entire ISO (excluding RVS, that's silliness by default) that isn't mechanical. It really helps a lot if you do a side by side of his ISO there and his ISO here, the difference is much more noticeable.

And some of you are probably wondering why I find this such a strong point against longer; the reason is that tone, above all other things in this game, is the hardest to fake. I know this is true from personal experience, both in my own scumgame and that of others. Longer was more easy-going, less purely reactive in the prior game. He shows none of that here and has been pretty much pure game-face (Mafia is srs bznss ) since the start of the game.

Pedit: Core, it was mostly a joke. I'm pretty much saying that I think Longer is scum based on his tone this game. This post should clarify it for you.

[Syryana]

Where is the pressure of your votes?(Syryana?)

What?

What throws me off is seeing your join date and knowing you (syryana) can't be that good of scum.

You really ought to read my wiki before making assumptions about my play.

Pedit: Candillan is town. I think he mentioned somewhere that he has me as leaning scum.

[Syryana]

I understand the time crunch and your willingness to lynch but can you currently justify a "candi" mislynch? (not voting but if he turns town..?) where does that put you with us?

If I have no other choice, I will vote Candyland. Though I believe he is town, we desperately need the information a flip provides and a no-lynch essentially provides the mafia with a free kill.

That said, I will not vote him while even a sliver of a Longer/Rach lynch is possible.

[Syryana]

Uh.....

Neither LnGrrR nor Rach are putting pressure on me.

My vote isn't going anywhere.

[Syryana]

Take your time. The world doesn't end for another 21 hours.

[Syryana]

Sorry to quadruple post but if Syryana could give me something to seperate himself from candillian I'd feel much better about him(syryana)

What sort of separation are you looking for..?

[Syryana]

Well to be flat out I want to know your not scum buddies(everyone keep in mind I'm 10 pages behind (don't want to appear VI))

I have no way to prove this. Nobody playing this game does.

Hey since your on right now you could make this easy for me and let me know who your current FOS is

LnGrrR.

[Syryana]

do you have more on Lngrrrr than OMGUS? and yeah not knowing current vote count but would you lay a vote on candillan

I already posted my reasons for voting LngrrR. #498. I also already answered your other question in #503.

And my vote on LnGrrR is not OMGUS.

[Syryana]

Not blaming you for anything old boy, just pointing you towards the answers to your questions.

[Syryana]

Catching up.

[Syryana]

Okay, so I'm at L-1 now. I'm vanilla town.

Reads:

Never ever lynch these:

Candillan(caveat: if for some reason he's still alive after tonight remove him from this list)
Grimgroove
CoreH86

Probably town, but if it's him versus the above three, lynch him

Imkingdavid

Should be lynched if he makes it to LyLo

homertv

Kill it with fire

LnGrrR
RachMarie
Mothrax

Cand, Grim, Core are all townie as all get out. Never ever ever lynch them. David looks pretty town, but something about him bothers me and I can't put my finger on it.

Homer bothers me because he hasn't really put in any effort to investigate alternative reads; he's been tunnelling me pretty much exclusively all game (I believe he voted Rach once, but that's all). He's had suspects, but has made no particular movement to scumhunt or really do much of anything. He asks questions, yet does nothing with the answers. I don't really see any smooth flow with his suspect pool, either; he picks up and drops alternatives to me with no particular explanation as to why (#366, #454 stick out in particular, Rach's reads list should have in no way caused him to drop a scumread on her).

LnGrrR I have already made a case for. He's just not playing the same as he did before. Rach is lurking like a boss, actively avoiding this game while being active elsewhere. Her reads list in #390 (her only actual post of substance) is pretty patently awful: buddying the heck out of homer, her reasoning for finding me scum is pure OMGUS, the whole thing is superficial and contains little in the way of actual analysis. Mothrax is also on this list; I really didn't like his(her?) entrance; he's not really explained any of his reads (or much of anything for that matter) in depth since replacing in. He pulls one post from me he doesn't like, one post from LnGrrR he did like, made some remarks on two things from Cand he didn't like. Reads are nebulous and I particularly don't care for how he explains away Rach's behavior as "Rach being Rach, it's null".

I'll be around for a while, so let me know if you all want anything else.

[Syryana]

If you want to make a case that I am Lurking fine I will agree with the fact that I am lurking due to not having a computer of my own atm, plus lack of hearing aid which drains me and makes me sleep more. If you want to make a case that I only do not post in this game, not buying it. Go metastalk me. That is the most I can say because of ongoing games.

I can't discuss ongoing games so I'm somewhat limited in what I can say about this. However, I will say that metastalking you is an excellent idea and I recommend everyone draw their own conclusions about your activity levels from that.

Also, I'm not trying to diminish your personal problems. That's really none of my business.

OMGUS oh really? Keep in mind when I am reading someones ISO and making notes in a notepad file about them I am foucused on them not on me so yeah really not paying attention who is or is not voting me when I am putting together reads, my focus is to analyze their ISO in entirety of the game and make notes then make my case on if I think they are scumz or town.

Your reasoning for having a scum lean on me:

That does not necessarily make me scum however, and I am wondering if you are going after an easy lynch. I would say I am an easier lynch than shaboo/mk dude since it is clear that slot is about as non existent as can be, while I have posted some just not as much as I should be.

Yeah not liking it.. You can go in the leaning scumz pile.

In short, your reason you think I'm scummy is that I'm "going for the easy lynch", in this case you. You make no mention of the scumslip argument (which was quite a few pages long and really should have been in here somewhere) and call me scummy purely for finding you suspect. That's OMGUS. Furthermore, I've no idea where you got the notion that you are an "easy lynch"; you're the IC, people abandoned your wagon shortly after you made a reads post.

Having 3 potential scumspects on Day 1 is really not that unbelievable especially with only 7 playing so not able to fully read.

I don't recall saying anything about you having three scumspects.

Dude I could point to a number of games where I voted for someone who was voting for me and was town. I was not voting for them because of them voting for me. I have also both as town and scum read peeps as town who were voting for me.

Whoa. Massive scumvibes from this. You voting for someone that was voting for you (and you both being town) is completely besides the point. The point is that your scumread on me stems entirely from the fact that I suspect you. Voting has nothing to do with it.

3. I never said Rach's reads made me stop suspecting her. I think that her explanations to her absence earlier in the game were good. That's all.

What do you think of Rach now?

[Syryana]

Yeah, no. We're not lynching the doc.

I don't think an alternative wagon to LnGrrR/me is a good idea either. We've had enough claims for one Day.

So we're pretty much down to picking between LnGrrR and me.

[Syryana]

I have no idea what you're trying to say, Candyland.

[Syryana]

All I'm saying is that there are ways for me to not die tonight.

What ways would these be?

[Syryana]

It would be pretty dumb to jail you even if there is a JK. Jailing you might save your life, but it makes you basically useless as jail is a roleblock. Better to try to jail the killer IMO.

[Syryana]

.... I don't even.

[Syryana]

I was kidding yeeshus
Wait did you guys really take that seriously

You, no.

Rach, yes.

[Syryana]

Catching up tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Hey Grim. Wassup?

[Syryana]

Kay

[Syryana]

Why did the fact that the scumslip you thought you saw me make was no scumslip at all, automatically (?) result in a townread on me? Why couldn't I be scum who simply didn't slip?

I didn't get a townread on you because of the scumslip-that-never-was. I got a townread on you because you admitted that you thought I was being genuine. If you were scum you had some pretty solid reasons for lynching me and no reason whatsoever to doubt that. Instead you admitted your confusion: I still looked scummy, but you were having doubts about me cos of *reasons*. I thought that was genuine as hell and thus townread. If the whole scumslip thing hadn't happened then you'd have never said that and I wouldn't feel so good about you. I didn't mean that the scumslip thing cleared you, as david was pushing.

[Syryana]

At this point my vote was still on you, right after a readslist in which I called you scum.
It is only later, in post 315 where I start getting soft.
I'm starting to fear I have made a fatal mistake there. Your incorrect answer isn't helping my fears.
Who are your scumreads right now?

Huh. I thought your "getting soft" had come before I said that. I think what happened was at the time I agreed with David's logic on the truth behind the "slip" but I was ultimately more convinced by your "weakness".

Scumreads are Rach/Mothrax/homer.

Homer bothers me because he hasn't really put in any effort to investigate alternative reads; he's been tunnelling me pretty much exclusively all game (I believe he voted Rach once, but that's all). He's had suspects, but has made no particular movement to scumhunt or really do much of anything. He asks questions, yet does nothing with the answers. I don't really see any smooth flow with his suspect pool, either; he picks up and drops alternatives to me with no particular explanation as to why (#366, #454 stick out in particular, Rach's reads list should have in no way caused him to drop a scumread on her). ...

Rach is lurking like a boss, actively avoiding this game while being active elsewhere. Her reads list in #390 (her only actual post of substance) is pretty patently awful: buddying the heck out of homer, her reasoning for finding me scum is pure OMGUS, the whole thing is superficial and contains little in the way of actual analysis. Mothrax is also on this list; I really didn't like his(her?) entrance; he's not really explained any of his reads (or much of anything for that matter) in depth since replacing in. He pulls one post from me he doesn't like, one post from LnGrrR he did like, made some remarks on two things from Cand he didn't like. Reads are nebulous and I particularly don't care for how he explains away Rach's behavior as "Rach being Rach, it's null".

I'm not sure which of those three is Town (at least one of them must be, but I can't tell which). I don't like Mothrax's almost total lack of explanations (short of various I don't like this or that). Homer in particular bothers me; though he quickly unvoted yesterDay when I mentioned he's tunneling, toDay he comes back and immediately votes me again with no mention of introspection or whatever it was he promised to relook at yesterDay (i.e. the LnGrrR flip changed nothing, nor did his "step back"). The problem I have with Rach toDay is much the same as well; lurking, promises of things (where's the VCA?), etc.

What do you think, Grim? Who are you finding scummy currently? Other than me, naturally

[Syryana]

Syr, I disagree with you on that. Now, maybe it's because I'm new here (this is only my second game here), but if we have a JK in this game, and he would jail Candy, last night kill was prevented and our doctor was still alive. I understand what you are saying, but the bottom line of that is that if he would jail Candy we were in a better place right now, wouldn't we?

Here's the thing though. Let's assume the JK jails Candi, and the scum attempts to kill Candi. Candi remains alive today. However, Candi is unable to use protection (hohoho) and the scum knows the JK is likely to jail him again the following night, giving scum free reign for other kills while the Doctor remains useless(thanks to the jail) and the JK is useless (due to tying up the Doc).

Furthermore, we as a town wouldn't know the reason for the no-kill in that scenario. JK could have jailed Candi. Candi could have protected someone else. Scum could have simply no-killed. There's a whole host of scenarios that could occur, many of which are bad for us (e.g. Candi protects someone, assumes that person is town due to no-kill and claims as much, when reality is JK jailed Candi and Candi was targeted, or scum no-killed and thus JK AND Candi make wrong assumptions about their targets, etc.)

We're getting a bit far afield here. Why are you bringing this up now? What are your responses to my case against you?

[Syryana]

I'm just going to ask you straight up since I'm a sucker for codes: is there a reason why you capitalized those D's in the words that have "day" in it?

Yes. ToDay = this game Day. Today = this MeatWorld day. Sometimes I forget, but I try not to.

I like David's #659, particularly the bit about homer's switch from "LnGrrR will give us info" to "What info did we get from LnGrrR". Though I will say that homer's unvote in whatever post that was seems more likely a knee-jerk reaction to my calling him on his tunneling moreso than "distancing". Unless we're talking about different unvotes.

Im here Im here...

have we gotten an updated vc yet?

Why do you need a VC to talk about goings on? Reads? Thoughts on Lngrr flip? Thoughts on toDay's lynch target? Hmm?

Also, I'm not lynching Core, ever. Dude's town as fuck.

[Syryana]

Are you serious?

Yes. Why?

[Syryana]

Catching up in this game will have to wait until tomorrow, blinding headache

[Syryana]

Already in post 589 he had you in his town reads, never explaining why.
Seems he's trying to build up some strange connection with you. Buddying? Through reverse psychology trying to tell us he's definitely not your scumbuddy? Or try to imply that you are his scumbuddy?
Whatever it is, it is obvous there is some tactic behind him calling you town like that, and I don't like it.

The tactic being "I think he's town".

Why then, do I think Core is town? Answer: Go look at his ISO posts (#4-#20 are fairly indicative). See how concerned he is over the impending deadline? He's flipping out: trying to read the game, figure out alignments, figure out who to vote for, etc. He isn't understanding a lot of what we wrote and is trying to get clarifications where he can. I don't believe scum would even bother trying to to so nor do I think he's faking the panic in those posts. Looking at his meta I'm more convinced this is true: Core has three completed games on site, two of which he was scum in. When Core is town it is remarkably obvious he has much less idea of what's going on as he's not informed. Feel free to compare his completed games to this one.

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=475
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=27055

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=28979

Completed games I have with Syr:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=26894 Town, Global Watcher

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27202 Town VT (no PRs in this setup except for the gun bearer).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4891830 Replaces into a scum slot This link starts you on pg 60 where he replaced in.



I realize it is still a small sample, but his play in this game reminds me much more of his play when he was scum and not how he played as town.

VOTE: Syr

You go to all the trouble of providing my completed games yet you do not bother to analyze how my game here compares to any of the three games you linked.

VOTE: RachMarie

I'm getting fairly confident again in my Syryana scumread.

Why?

I don't believe you ever answered this, Grim?

[Syryana]

Will catch up properly when I return later tomorrow (or today, whatever the hell date it is, when I wake up).

Good catch on david though, homer

[Syryana]

Simple

If you look at how Syr posts in the two town games hes much more of a troll. Carefree and relaxed. If you look at the first run of this game that got cancelled and rerolled, he is a trollin there too.

In the game where he was scumz, less trolling more bizness.... here he is more his bizness self instead of his trollin self.

Hence my vote

This is awful. In the first game you linked, there is no trolling (unless you count RVS). In the second, the major mechanic is completely different. Rather than voting for lynches, a townie has a gun and can shoot mafia. If mafia is shot, the townie keeps the gun, else the shooter dies and the shot townie becomes the new gunbearer. I trolled the hell out of that game because I could, and if someone interpreted my trolling as anti-town or scummy, I get to start shooting people. Win-win.

You say I trolled a lot in the previous game? Funny, I don't see it.

This meta analysis (if you can call it that) is bad and you should feel bad. Your first game has no trolling, the second game has a totally different mechanic, you lied about the previous game. Your so-called analysis boils down to "he trolls a lot, and here he isn't, he must be scum". I know you can do better than this, hence you are scum.

With at least 3 inactives and 1 person asking for replacement, we've got more than half of the crew not here, there's not much left to be done for those who are here, is there?
Not even taking account of the fact that all these replacements are not making it easier to read slots, making this a very scumsided game if you ask me.

I agree with you.

However, I want to try and analyze the six slots in the game (other than me) -

1.

Grimgroove

- very active, always trying to move the game forward. I believe he's town and I hope he's town.

2.

Syryana

- was my main suspect on day 1. I still didn't dropped the idea that he's scum, but at least he's here, and, well, I guess I could be absolutely wrong about him and he could be town.

3.

imkingdavid

- when he just entered the game, he had a big "I'm town" reading from almost all of us. My suspicion towards him started with his "

the only problem I can remember having with Syr during Day 1

" remark, to which he never answered. However, I do believe that his decision to leave the game has nothing to do with his role here. It's very difficult to read this slot, in my opinion.

4.

RachMarie

- she's at L-1 now and she has a new computer. She needs to start playing the game now. No more excuses.

5.

mothrax

- I will say it again. She - didn't - say - anything - since - this - day - started. It's very anti-town to behave like this.

6.

Core_H86

- Anti-town? Core is the definition of anty-town-behaviour. He wasn't here for more than three days, then he popped to say nothing and vanished again.

You have been removed from my suspect pool.

[Syryana]

So.... dead site. Sup?

[Syryana]

Site is back up, but I had mod stuffs to do plus working on catching up on work that I got behind on while sharing a computer.


Will get to this tomorrow

Still waiting.

[Syryana]

Never played that one. Only GTA I ever played was IV. And I was talking in that accent for like a year.

[Syryana]

(how far did we get? Two extra pages?)

Count your blessings mate, when we replace david and mothrax the replacements will hate us that much less.

[Syryana]

Ehrmagerd, it's Enormis! Let meh feel yo presence!

CoreH86

, quote the following, and fill in your read next to each person's name (minimum of "I think X is town/scum", preferably decent reasons too):

RachMarie:

Syryana:

Grimgroove:

imkingdavid/Enormis:

Crandaja/Mothrax:

homertve:

[Syryana]

Wow. Content. And stuff.

Will catch up tomorrow.

[Syryana]

Enormis/RachMarie scumteam. Cool.

[Syryana]

Your argument was "She's my scumpartner, don't lynch her" right? Yeah, don't like that one.

And yes. She lurkin hard and she scummy. Gud nuff.

[Syryana]

I told you lurking is null.

And i seem to recall you being able to put a case whenever you lynch people. Could you do that for me for your case against Rach? Because all you have against her is lurking --> which is null because she is sick.

Its legit.

Rach, are you fine now?

Lurking is a scumtell

She's scum

And you're scum

And must needs be lynched with fire

[Syryana]

I disapprove of your avatar change, scum. And you have seen nothing of spite yet.
VOTE: Enomis

[Syryana]

I guess you don't have a case other than lurker on Rach then. Cool.

I like my avatar change.

Not completely fine but trying to keep up with work and games anyways.



LnGrrrR (5):

Candillan

,

Grimgroove, Syryana,

RachMarie, imkingdavid


RachMarie (2):

Grimgroove, Syryana,

homertve


I find it hard to believe that BOTH Grim and Syr could be town based on this VCA...

Most likely they are not both scumz however with one on and one off the wagon.

So if it is not Syr it has to be Grim.... Those are the two I would support for a lynch today.


Where is the massive trolling which is your usual MO as Town? Syr?

What do you base your reading of me as scumz simply on the whole lurking thingy?

You were also definitely more trolling in the first go round of this game than in this one and that you cant explain away by being a different format.

Tell me what you know of my MO. For example, how do I normally troll?

Are you seriously positing that one of {me, Grim} must be scum? Why are you ignoring david? Why are you ignoring people not on the Longer wagon?

As for the case on you, if either you or your scumpartner enomis were reading the game you'd know what the case on you is. Lurking is only a part of it. Just to make it easier, let's put it like this: actively avoiding this game(and I frankly am tired of the various excuses, sorry to be a dick but I simply do not care anymore particularly when you're perfectly able to post at least brief content in other games), incredibly superficial analysis (see your case on me, your last post, your reads list you gave way back on Day 1, etc.), no desire to be pro-town whatsoever (even at L-1 didn't faze her) that david/Rach five minute voteflip on Longer was suspicious as fuck.

Pedit: Just as weak as everything else in the game, you sure you read it?
Pedit2: Ugh
Pedit3: I don't even
Pedit4: Bus your partner now?
Pedit5: The one where I voted you
Pedit6: He gets it
Pedit7: Rach calls me out for trolling, then doesn't recognize trolling when I slap her in the face with it

That's a lot of fucking pedits

[Syryana]

@Syr: There is no brief content in my 3 ongoing games with her. It's either bah post by her or nothing else.

Metastalking is a wondrous thing

The readlist is weak yes. But i can account this to her having a ton load of games/being sick and thus could not think about the game. Well, This is at least a valid point of why she is scummy but i don't see this point alone convincing you that she is scum.

It's not the only point....

She can't be pro-town when she doesn't post. How do you define pro-town?

The opposite of anti-town.

[Syryana]

bah you cant suddenly start trolling after not trolling just cause I pointed it out Syr...

Oh, so you think I was trolling because you pointed it out? Isn't that cute.

So if I flipped Town, who would you look at Syr>

And if you are town, then what about Grim ?

If you're town, it's enomis/mothrax. Everybody else is town.

Was focusing for the one ON the wagon and looking for patterns there Syr.

Yet you are not looking at everyone on the wagon. Why is that?

[Syryana]

I mentioned homer is still prob town

david who is now Eno duh... I stated was also prob town.

Why is homer prob town? Why is david prob town?

plus they were on different wagons

So? Why does this matter?

you and Grim were the only two on BOTH wagons.

Are you saying it is not possible for two townies to be on two lynching wagons?

I'll read the meta later, I don't feel like it right now.

[Syryana]

Way to not answer the question. Thanks.

[Syryana]

Metastalking is when you click their username then use "Search User's Posts". Then you skim their activity. In multiple instances Rach was posting at least minimal content in other games but not this one. She was therefore actively avoiding this game.

In the above quotes, you can see both Grim and Candillan are expressing reluctance towards my lynch. There's a decent case against me: the "scumslip", the 180 on Grim, "twisting words to make people look scummy" etc. Both Grim and Cand know what a pain in the butt I can be, both from this game and the previous one. Here they both have a golden opportunity to mislynch me and come off smelling like roses, yet Cand outright refuses to lynch me (though he now has a scumread) and Grim expresses reluctance and doubt since he believes my departure posts were genuine. I do not believe either player would pass up this opportunity to lynch me if they were scum, not when both have fairly ironclad reasons to see me strung up. Therefore, both are town.

My experience with Rach tells me she lurks a lot regardless of alignment. My problem here is her lack of genuine contributions, to put it shortly.

[Syryana]

Ermm... The posts she post in the game with me are "Have been sick will catch up soon" or " Sharing computer. Will be getting computer soon". And one she didnt even post anything. <-- This counted as minimal content to you?

No. I'm not allowed to elaborate further since I'm not able to discuss ongoings. You should stop that too. Just go read her sequences of posts, it's there.

Wait i read up that post, i still don't see any scumslip thingy. If it's the one Homer is talking about, it isn't a scumslip at all. I find it weird that you think a scumslip on you is an actual case when you can't make a scumslip if you are town. What? You are also saying "you twisting words to make other people scummy" is a decent case? So you admit to doing this? WTF were you doing.

I said that I understand why other people think it's a scumslip. I also said it wasn't a scumslip.

I have no idea what you're trying to say re: "twisting words".

I think your points on Syr are good ones Eno.

Why are they good? In fact, what are his points?

[Syryana]

On page 14 so far.

Scum
{

Candillan

, LnGrrrR, imkingdavid}
Town
{

RachMarie

, Grim,

Syryana, Ravenpaw

}
Bolded are stronger.

Missing someone, not sure which slot it is. Also Cand you mentioned having a completed town game; can I see that, please?
I'll finish my re-read when I get home tonight.

I am mildly disappointed that this post did not contain "Vote: syranasergistbad".

Uhhh what the fuck happened at the end of d1. There

was

plenty of support for a Syr wagon, David and Rach both claimed preference for a Syr lynch over an LGR lynch and yet... quickwagon?

Both of you have a lot of explaining to do ASAP.

How the hell did you get from ^ that (also includes your prior reads list):

Ok my final reads are such:
I have strong

town

reads on

Homer, Eno.

I have weak

town

reads on

Grim, Rach.

(Note: Associatives will condemn either one of these players as scum depending on different flips)
I have a weak

scum

read on

Core.

I have a strong

scum

read on

Syryana.

VOTE: Syryana

I'm heading out to go get intoxicated. Peace.

To ^ this? And you even spelled my name right while voting? You must be scum.

Syr is scum from vote hopping, jumping opportunistically on wagons.

Rach is still slightly town because I have experience with reading her. However her play has been troublesome so she has moved from strong town to just barely leaning town; I have associative tells with certain players that will better discern her alignment.

I would love to know two things:
1) Where you got vote hopping/opportunism from
2) What gave you a strong townread on Rach in the first place?

I disapprove of your avatar change, scum. And you have seen nothing of spite yet.
VOTE: Enomis

Syryana, care to explain your move away from the RachMarie wagon on to the enomis one? Is enomis a stronger scumread for you, or do you just think his wagon will get more support?

My enomis vote was a troll to start with. It became more serious when he failed the shit out of the reaction testing. Rest assured, if someone votes for Rach I will quickhammer the shit out of it.

Scum is in {Rach, enomis, Majiffy}.

Dunnoe? Because i get the feeling Syr is trolling me and pretending not to get my argument because he is good enough to get me.

I am trolling you. Or I was. Do you know why?

Yes, I did, and I didn't find them convincing. Grim's examples was far more convincing.

I have no idea why you find Grim's examples far more convincing than mine. Because both are actual facts that happened and i don't get why grim's examples were far more convincing?

Calm down and decide, are you using evidence to fit your reads?

He seems pretty calm to me. The semantics argument is silly.

[Syryana]

Oh, and by the way, your tail is on fire.

I laughed IRL

[Syryana]

I can explain Rach fully, thank you, along with Syryana.

Do it, then.

[Syryana]

VOTE: RachMarie

[Syryana]

Best course would be to lynch someone toDay, then if the game isn't won no-lynch tomorrow to get to 3P lylo. That way it leaves us the best possible chance of finding scum in LyLo.

As to whether the lack of a kill was due to a JK's actions or scum attempting shenanigans, only time will tell.

I've no idea who I want lynched toDay though. Need to reread things.

[Syryana]

Hallo. Sup?

[Syryana]

I just ISO'd Core. I suggest everyone does the same thing. I think
VOTE: Majiffy
is the most reasonable thing to do after having done this. I don't really see the scum-Core as much as I thought I would have.

Look at mkfuba/Rach interactions.

And let me get this straight...

you believe I'm scum, but I didn't know the setup until recently?

Fucking retard.

You could fake the shit out of that, don't be disingenuous.

Syryanisturgisbad vote Core.

Why?

[Syryana]

Or, I don't know, read the fucking thread maybe.

Nah. I'll just throw my vote on someone at some point. Preferably a hammer.

[Syryana]

I think we should lynch Core. Don't think Jiffy is scum atm.

VOTE: Core

Also the two of you should stop bickering.

[Syryana]

Please?

[Syryana]

a) Because I think it's between him and enomis, everyone else is town, and I feel better about a Core lynch than an enomis one
b) Just a feeling, this reminds me of when I last played with him as town in Micro 182 (though he was more willing to explain himself in that game now I think of it)
c) Not necessarily. I occasionally replace in and don't even bother to read the prior pages. Though Majiffy supposedly did, now I think on it.

Hmm.

UNVOTE:

Seems like I'm going to have to do a proper reread.

[Syryana]

Why?

[Syryana]

Because of his L-1 on RachMarie which was crucial given the dynamics of the game. This game was moving forward like a rusty old cart and his L-1 was the push it needed to reach the finish line.

Best way to bus your partner; do it when no one thinks you should. This applies both to enomis' vote and my hammer.

Because of the plan he suggested during Day 3. It's not an amazing plan, but it's obviously made with the mindset of town. Just look at the way he tries to defend and from which angle. There is not the slightest hint at scum-perspective.

I'll go read the plan to confirm, but this sounds like a valid point.

Because of the way he tried to defended RachMarie at first. Unlike Majiffy, he truly thought to have a point when saying we were random lynching a lurker. He still insists on that today. However wrong, it is a townish thing to do to try to prevent town from doing that, and it's not a scummish thing to do to openly and insistantly defend your partner like that.

The part about lynching a lurker could come from scum or town. The last sentence is WIFOM.

And before you compare with Majiffy: Majiffy never presented any argument as to why RachMarie could be town (where enomis was considering her mostly a null-lurker, Majiffy actually called her town), and he also didn't truly engage in discussions about her. He just sat there calling everybody stupid and not voting RachMarie.

Hmm.

Pedit: Nice catch, homer.

[Syryana]

VOTE: Core_H86

[Syryana]

It would be so much easier to listen to you if you didn't turn every time someone didn't listen into a war.

[Syryana]

Oh. We won. Haha. I wanted to be that hammer. Bah. I had my sight on core/syr.

You were so wronnggggg, yet so riiiiiiiight