Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

[Grimgroove]

Don't be lazy Homer, come on

Did I miss something?

I guess you did. Posts 653[+post] (+ his reply to it), [post]678 and 685 are all answers to your question.

[Grimgroove]

Damnit. With fixed tags this is 653, Post 378 and 685

[Grimgroove]

678 !!

Arg, it's one of these days...

[RachMarie]

tell me about sorry about the double post uggh My browser went all wonky on me

[homertve]

Completed games I have with Syr:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=26894 Town, Global Watcher

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27202 Town VT (no PRs in this setup except for the gun bearer).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4891830 Replaces into a scum slot This link starts you on pg 60 where he replaced in.

I realize it is still a small sample, but his play in this game reminds me much more of his play when he was scum and not how he played as town.

I don't like these (sort of) posts. First of all, it's meta. One player can change his game style from one game to another, even if he had the same alignment in both of them. Secondly, I'm not going to read three full games now, so I can't (or won't) really check you on that.

[Grimgroove]

The main thing that's in Syryana's advantage right now is that RachMarie is on his wagon. Quite torn between those two.

imkingdavid: What do you make of Syryana, RachMarie, and any possible connection between them? Do you think they could be affiliated?

[Edosurist]

VC 2.1

Core_H86

(1): homertve

Syryana

(1): RachMarie

RachMarie

(1): Grimgroove

Not voting

: imkingdavid, Core_H86, Syryana, mothrax

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

In the future, don't ask for a VC in the thread. If I haven't made a VC yet, it's probably because I haven't checked it
So please feel free to PM me.

Day 2 ends in

(expired on 2013-07-03 12:45:00)

[Syryana]

Catching up in this game will have to wait until tomorrow, blinding headache

[imkingdavid]

Sorry for inactivity. Due to Father's day it was a busy weekend and today was a long day at work. I'll be sure to catch up tomorrow evening.

[Grimgroove]

Mothrax? What about you?

[Syryana]

Already in post 589 he had you in his town reads, never explaining why.
Seems he's trying to build up some strange connection with you. Buddying? Through reverse psychology trying to tell us he's definitely not your scumbuddy? Or try to imply that you are his scumbuddy?
Whatever it is, it is obvous there is some tactic behind him calling you town like that, and I don't like it.

The tactic being "I think he's town".

Why then, do I think Core is town? Answer: Go look at his ISO posts (#4-#20 are fairly indicative). See how concerned he is over the impending deadline? He's flipping out: trying to read the game, figure out alignments, figure out who to vote for, etc. He isn't understanding a lot of what we wrote and is trying to get clarifications where he can. I don't believe scum would even bother trying to to so nor do I think he's faking the panic in those posts. Looking at his meta I'm more convinced this is true: Core has three completed games on site, two of which he was scum in. When Core is town it is remarkably obvious he has much less idea of what's going on as he's not informed. Feel free to compare his completed games to this one.

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=475
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=27055

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=28979

Completed games I have with Syr:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=26894 Town, Global Watcher

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=27202 Town VT (no PRs in this setup except for the gun bearer).

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4891830 Replaces into a scum slot This link starts you on pg 60 where he replaced in.



I realize it is still a small sample, but his play in this game reminds me much more of his play when he was scum and not how he played as town.

VOTE: Syr

You go to all the trouble of providing my completed games yet you do not bother to analyze how my game here compares to any of the three games you linked.

VOTE: RachMarie

I'm getting fairly confident again in my Syryana scumread.

Why?

I don't believe you ever answered this, Grim?

[RachMarie]

Simple

If you look at how Syr posts in the two town games hes much more of a troll. Carefree and relaxed. If you look at the first run of this game that got cancelled and rerolled, he is a trollin there too.

In the game where he was scumz, less trolling more bizness.... here he is more his bizness self instead of his trollin self.

Hence my vote

[imkingdavid]

@mod please prod mothrax

-----

imkingdavid: What do you make of Syryana, RachMarie, and any possible connection between them? Do you think they could be affiliated?

I haven't noticed any sort of glaring connection between them. I'll need to take the time to iso them together and see if I notice anything.

Core - the only player you didn't give thoughts on in #675, aside from yourself (obviously) is Grim. You follow that up with #688 ("grim you town?") which is a very pointless question and too nonchalant of an attitude for being this far in the game. Please provide your read on him.

----

My suspects at this time are 1. Syr (scum slip followed by 180 degree change in attitude/tone), 2. homer (see #659), and 3. core (see #672).

[homertve]

Look at this:

I still don't like Syr's tunnel vision on Grim and Candi. One can argue that Syr's complete 180 in attitude once I pointed out his error is scummy because the "I'm stupid" bit becomes an AtE, but then again, what else are you going to do in that situation at this point, whether as town or scum?

With that being the only problem I can remember having with Syr during Day 1, sure I could still potentially support his lynch, but not before taking a look at some alternatives. Such as yourself.

At this point, David thinks Syr's

only problem

is his "180".

I replied to that on this post:

With that being the only problem I can remember having with Syr during Day 1

It's not the only problem with Day-1-Syr. The main problem with him (at least for me) is his scumslip here:

Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.

...and suddenly he doesn't think it's the only problem with syr:

My suspects at this time are 1. Syr (scum slip followed by 180 degree change in attitude/tone), 2. homer (see #659), and 3. core (see #672).

I'm not so sure what to think about it. I took some time to figure that out, so I went and read again his earlier posts in the game, and stumbled across this:

VOTE: Syr
(for the scum slip bit, which I’m not too pleased with)

So, it seems that after syr's scumslip he voted him for that, although he wasn't "too pleased with" it, then (day 2, first quote of this post) he forgot all about it, and then, after I reminded him of it, syr's becomes David's no.1 suspect again, due to his "

scum slip

followed by 180 degree..."

David, can you explain those inconsistencies?
Other players, what do you think about that?

[Grimgroove]

Already in post 589 he had you in his town reads, never explaining why.
Seems he's trying to build up some strange connection with you. Buddying? Through reverse psychology trying to tell us he's definitely not your scumbuddy? Or try to imply that you are his scumbuddy?
Whatever it is, it is obvous there is some tactic behind him calling you town like that, and I don't like it.

The tactic being "I think he's town".

Why then, do I think Core is town? Answer: Go look at his ISO posts (#4-#20 are fairly indicative). See how concerned he is over the impending deadline? He's flipping out: trying to read the game, figure out alignments, figure out who to vote for, etc. He isn't understanding a lot of what we wrote and is trying to get clarifications where he can. I don't believe scum would even bother trying to to so nor do I think he's faking the panic in those posts. Looking at his meta I'm more convinced this is true: Core has three completed games on site, two of which he was scum in. When Core is town it is remarkably obvious he has much less idea of what's going on as he's not informed. Feel free to compare his completed games to this one.

Scum:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=475
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=27055

Town:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=28979

You actually meta'd him? Wow. I will have to do the same I guess in order to find out if you're not full of shit here though .
When it comes to his behaviour in this thread, I se ea lot of questions, a lot of apologetic comments about him still catching up, but very few conclusions, apart his latest reads. Mind you, I think Core leans town as well, but to call him obvtown like you seem to do is a bridge too far.
What do you think of Core's desire to put more pressure on you? ISO'ing him it looks as if he's mainly focussed his attention on you, with a lot of wquestions in your directions. Why do you think that is?
And immediately the question for Core: Why is that?

I'm getting fairly confident again in my Syryana scumread.

Why?

I don't believe you ever answered this, Grim?

I did, on the top of this page, but I was having some technical difficulties.
I feel that I have put forward additional arguments that point to you being scummy in posts 653, 678 and 685.

[Grimgroove]

With 685 now being adressed, but with conclusions pending until I get a met-study on Core done myself. At first glance I don't see any big differences, but his posting style makes it difficult to analyze him.

[Grimgroove]

Look at this:

I still don't like Syr's tunnel vision on Grim and Candi. One can argue that Syr's complete 180 in attitude once I pointed out his error is scummy because the "I'm stupid" bit becomes an AtE, but then again, what else are you going to do in that situation at this point, whether as town or scum?

With that being the only problem I can remember having with Syr during Day 1, sure I could still potentially support his lynch, but not before taking a look at some alternatives. Such as yourself.

At this point, David thinks Syr's

only problem

is his "180".

I replied to that on this post:

With that being the only problem I can remember having with Syr during Day 1

It's not the only problem with Day-1-Syr. The main problem with him (at least for me) is his scumslip here:

Also, Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment.

...and suddenly he doesn't think it's the only problem with syr:

My suspects at this time are 1. Syr (scum slip followed by 180 degree change in attitude/tone), 2. homer (see #659), and 3. core (see #672).

I'm not so sure what to think about it. I took some time to figure that out, so I went and read again his earlier posts in the game, and stumbled across this:

VOTE: Syr
(for the scum slip bit, which I’m not too pleased with)

So, it seems that after syr's scumslip he voted him for that, although he wasn't "too pleased with" it, then (day 2, first quote of this post) he forgot all about it, and then, after I reminded him of it, syr's becomes David's no.1 suspect again, due to his "

scum slip

followed by 180 degree..."

David, can you explain those inconsistencies?
Other players, what do you think about that?

I don't want to answer before imkingdavid did, but just letting you know this post strenghtens my belief homertve is town. I think we'll have to put our heads together, just like you suggested during the previous Day.

Gonig to ISO some people today. The vote on LnGrrrR didn't really teach me anything I'm sad to say, though I did find the interaction between imkingdavid and RachMarie rather "peculiar" just before the hammer. Let's see if I can put my finger on that dubiousness so that I can further clarify.

[mothrax]

So sorry guys. I will do my absolute best to get to this after work.

[Grimgroove]

Motivation problems today, I'll have to get to that ISO business later.

Just managed to ISO RachMarie for now. Not liking her cases (including her last one on Syryana), not liking her lack of activity, but the first is probably due to the second, and both can be interlinked with her RL-issues. This makes her very difficult to read.

I just imagined how fucked we would be if the mothrax-slot is part of the scumteam. There's no way to read it at all, let alone interactions with the scumbud. If this would be the case I want to pre-emptively call the scumwin void.

I'm going to decide to trust homertve, and temporarily also Core.

Next one I'll be ISO'ing will definitely be imkingdavid.

[Grimgroove]

Ok, so I've ISO'd imkingdavid in a glimpse after all. One of the most striking things: ever since his 398 he has completely lost sight of RachMarie, even though she was his main scumread before that. And when I say completely, I do mean completely. The only notable interaction between them is the agreement on hammering LnGrrrR. What else I find strange about this "agreement" is the way it was reached: eventhough imkingdavid claims a clear preference towards lynching Syryana, the plan he suggests to RachMarie seems very contra-intutive given that stance.
I invite everyone to look at their interactions and share their thoughts. One thing about associative tells is that you cans ee them between any two persons if you try hard enough, so I want to hear your thoughts before convincing myself of this actually being something worth delving into.

[Grimgroove]

In the other direction RachMarie has been townreading imkingdavid ever since he got here.

Going to see if I can spot something similar between Crandaja (imkingdavid's predecessor) and RachMarie.

[homertve]

What else I find strange about this "agreement" is the way it was reached: eventhough imkingdavid claims a clear preference towards lynching Syryana, the plan he suggests to RachMarie seems very contra-intutive given that stance.

I remember thinking the same way. However, from their PoV, hours before the deadline, they were both voting Syr. Both Syr and Linger were on (L-2), so the only way - again from their PoV, hours before DL - the only way to get a lynch was to hammer LnG. That's why I dropped that idea.

The "David not talking about Rach" thing is pretty interesting, but I want to check it myself.

[RachMarie]

ahem Grim.

I think I have made it very clear that a NL on D 1 is bad juju. The agreement thingy was simply I was glad someone was online and able to switch so we could get a lynch before deadline.

I townread david because I think he is prob town, I cant be absolutely sure, but his posts seem to be coming from a town PoV.

oh and I AM GETTING MY NEW COMPUTER TOMORROW

[Grimgroove]

Well, with these kinds of agreements it's kind of hard to learn something from the lynch right. This makes two votes on the wagon simply the result of the desire to see a lynch. That doesn't leave much else to analyse.

My vote was there before my V/LA, mainly for reasons of LnGrrrR acting completely differently compared to "Title Pending", and would probably have stayed there considering his claim, but might have changed because of the way he "sacrificed" himself for info.
Syryana's vote was also there for meta reasons.
Candillan has had suspcions of LnGrrrR throughout the entire game, he flipped town already so looking into his reasons too deeply does not make much sense.

I get the feeling in this case scum (imkingdavid and/or RachMarie, currently I'm thinking at least one of those is scum) was helped by circumstances.

Considering how both people who were part of this agreement and were so keen on "learning from this lynch" have not bothered to analyse anything from D1 ever since D2 started, I'm feeling there's something fishy here.

The problem is, again, you both are calling in real life-circumstances to justify this, but if you can post, you might as well make it more than the constant repetition of shared computers, fathers days and carpal tunnels.

RachMarie is currently at L-2. I think it's time for an L-1. We need to get this thing forward again.

[Syryana]

Will catch up properly when I return later tomorrow (or today, whatever the hell date it is, when I wake up).

Good catch on david though, homer