Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)

Grimgroove · Post Post #400 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:45 am

I'm still not sure what to make of Rach. While I'm glad she has made a post with content, showing that she does actively follow this game, it's not a post that made her easier to read. There also seems to be some inconsistencies inthere. LnGrrR's absence from there is, as you noted, a very interesting one, but I also find it interesting how she "blames" Syryana for trying to go for an easy lynch by voting her (RachMarie), but considers me and homertve town for doing the same. Seems rather odd, Syryana's reasons to vote her were just as good as homer's or mine I'd say.
Another oddity is her inactivity for so long, up until this point so late in the daystage. I believe her when she mentions all the practical reasons that prevented her from being more active, making her inactiveness no longer scummy, but why chose to be active in other games over this one. Still trying to figure out if it could be something role-related.

That said, yes, I will remove my vote. Again, not because I'm clearing her (though I hope this will be the starting signal to more active gaming from her part), but at this stage I think the LnGrrrR-Candillan thing is much more interesting.

Not saying one of the two will definitely be scum, but my gut right now tells me this is the case. What do you guys think about this?

While during my reads list I had more of a scum-lean on Candillan than on LnGrrrR, both are pretty equal right now.

LnGrrrR does appear townier than Candillan, but LnGrrrR seems less townie than in "Title Pending", and Candillan seems more townie than in "Title Pending". I know, meta and all that, but there is something

different

about LnGrrrR that makes my gut scream: Watch this guy.

I like Candillan's case on LnGrrrR, but the main problem is that it took way too long to compile, and the thing that caused him to look in that direction was OMGUS, there's simply no denying that. Whereas Candillan gave the impression of having a case in his head all this time, it took him an awful lot of time to actually put it in words.

LnGrrrR has been tunneling. Plain and simple. I also don't like how inj his last post, he's saying Candillan is "misrepping" him over trivial matters. Sounds like LnGrrrR has reached the stage where everything that comes close to being an argument against Candillan will be used, regardless of its inherent value.

If you ask me which lynch would be the most interesting, I'd say it would have to be among the Candillan-LnGrrrR duo. The postives and negatives for both sides, not making this an easy decision. Right now I prefer my vote on LnGrrrR. Candillan responded to my comments in a way I feel is adequate. LnGrrrR did not, and also my question to him about RachMarie was too colourless (329). But the main thing that irks me, I must admit, is the difference with "Title Pending". Anyone else notice this?

I'd like to ask everyone to give their opinion on Candillan and LnGrrrR specifically at this stage.

I'd also like to refer to my reads on both of them in post 302.

Grimgroove · Post Post #401 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:45 am

VOTE: LnGrrrR

homertve · Post Post #402 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:26 am

In post 398, imkingdavid wrote:homer - Can you re-explain your reasons for voting Syr? Just from skimming your iso, you vote Syr during RVS and never change it until just now when you voted Rach and then moved it back to Syr.
Also, you name your top three as Rach (for active lurking), Raven (for lurking), and Syr (I don't see reasons in my skim but I may have missed them). What are your thoughts on a Candi lynch?

As I said in my 252, I think Syr's scumslip is pretty convincing, while his explanation isn't. He said that "Grim is very good at appearing reasonable and logical as either alignment" while he only saw him playing as scum. It seems like he's a scum knowing for a fact that Grim is town this time. That's why he's my main suspect at this time.

Also, as I said on 366, at this time I don't think Candi is a scum and I think we shouldn't lynch him today. Would you consider a lynch on Syr?

In post 400, Grimgroove wrote:I like Candillan's case on LnGrrrR

Can you explain to me that case and why do you think it's a good one?

In post 400, Grimgroove wrote:If you ask me which lynch would be the most interesting, I'd say it would have to be among the Candillan-LnGrrrR duo.

Something in this sentence gives me a bad feeling. Shouldn't we go for a "good" lynch rather than an "interesting" one?

In post 400, Grimgroove wrote:I'd like to ask everyone to give their opinion on Candillan and LnGrrrR specifically at this stage.

I think I need to ISO both of them more carefully for that, yet I don't have time to do it today. I will however try to do it as soon as possible.

LnGrrrR · Post Post #403 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:44 am

Candi, not sure if you missed it in the messed up quotes, but Id like to hear from you how you think Grim could "act townie" without posting the way he is now.

You said there are different ways of acting townie, so Id like to see you give some examples.

LnGrrrR · Post Post #404 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:08 am

In post 400, Grimgroove wrote: LnGrrrR has been tunneling. Plain and simple. I also don't like how in his last post, he's saying Candillan is "misrepping" him over trivial matters. Sounds like LnGrrrR has reached the stage where everything that comes close to being an argument against Candillan will be used, regardless of its inherent value.

I won't deny that I've been tunneling him, but only because he has posted so many scummy things.

- His awkward multiple "I'm town" jokes
- His awkward "I don't have a meta" argument
- His null means scum or town comment, which makes no sense. Null does mean they could be either, but he tries to play it off like moving someone to null from scum makes no difference. Remember, he made a comment that he though Grim and I might be a scum team after he listed his reads, and now Grim is upgraded to town with no posted reason.

He's given me bad vibes since the beginning, and has done nearly nothing to alleviate them.

As far as my comments on Rach, they were colorless because she hadn't posted much at that time. I thought her post 263 was slightly townie.

Frankly, it seems like besides Candy and I's arguments, most of the other cases have been on supposed "slips". They all felt like pretty bad arguments to me, which is why I agreed with Rach. Not to mention that we have had a lack of participation from 2 or 3 spots now.

Grimgroove · Post Post #405 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:09 am

@Homer: While it goes without saying that I want a "good" lynch, there's no way to know for certain we will have a good lynch at this point. There's a lot still wrapped in question marks.
The reason why I say it should be interesting is that it gives us a perspective on how people feel about both players, what both players bring up and if their points were to be taken seriously, or were just a ruse. Since both players have been fairly active, there's a lot to work with once either of them flips. This makes their lynch more interesting than the lynch on a lurker.

I understand why you don't want to let the Syryana-thing go. I must shamefully admit he played on my emotions perfectly (maybe without the intention, we'll know later) and I can't help but believe him for now. I do wish he'd get more involved in the game again.

As for Candillan's case, I especially like his points about LnGrrrR"s "Switzerland complex" (which I feel is valid) and his buddying towards me. I have noticed somethnig similar to. Even in his last post LnGrrrR insists on the point of "how could I act townie" in this game. Too much importance is given to the topic when it comes to the discussion between Candillan and LnGrrrR and both calling each other scum.

What I don't like avbout Candillan's case is the easy leap from anti-town to scummy. Refusing to acknowledge a case is not necessarily close-mindedness, and the latter is not necessarily scummy. I also don't like how he starts his case with "to be honest". It sounds like the introduction to a broken promise. His post before this one spoke about a case on LnGrrrR incoming, and while it raises some good points, it does leave something to be desired for. Candillan seems tor ealize this, hence the "to be honest". It's too apologetic.

As you can see I'm still torn between the two. Hence why I ask for your opinions on this as well.

In post 383, Candillan wrote:To be honest, the part that initially bothered me about you was the fact that you called Grim town for something he did as scum. Then, from that discussion, you twisted my case into "whatever he does that's town is scum, and whatever he does that's scum is scum" which was a blatant misrep that you still haven't rescinded. My case was different, and you refuse to acknowledge it. Closed-mindedness is anti-town at least, if not scummy. Your dismissing of him as town for something he did when he was scum still rubs me the wrong way. I don't think a townie would do that, and it seems as if you know he's town.

Then, you made post 194, which read as super scummy. It made it seem like you were justifying him being alive so you could pin blame on him D3 for still being alive.

Also there's the point about the Switzerland complex he's having. He isn't making enemies of anyone aside from me. He hasn't listed any scumreads aside from me, and that, especially, bothers me. Not because of OMGUS, but because he's trying to get you all to warm up to a mislynch by getting on all your good sides. He didn't even deny it when he was asked about buddying to Grim.

Is that enough?

imkingdavid · Post Post #406 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 10:34 am

Grim wrote:LnGrrrR does appear townier than Candillan, but LnGrrrR seems less townie than in "Title Pending", and Candillan seems more townie than in "Title Pending". I know, meta and all that, but there is something different about LnGrrrR that makes my gut scream: Watch this guy.

I was not in that game and don't really have time to read through 15 pages right now. If you have some time, would you mind giving a brief summary of how you think he's being different? Based only on his behavior alone in this game, I don't really find him as scummy as Candi or Syr. As for Rach skipping him in her reads, one could argue that if Rach/LnG are scum, she just "slipped" by "forgetting" to mention her partner. But to be honest, I'd rather not get into all that at the moment.

I will concede that the whole "how could I act townie" question and related stuff is kinda... interesting. But not enough to get my vote at the moment.

homertve wrote:Also, as I said on 366, at this time I don't think Candi is a scum and I think we shouldn't lynch him today. Would you consider a lynch on Syr?

Well, he is one of my top three, so yes.

Grim wrote:I'd like to ask everyone to give their opinion on Candillan and LnGrrrR specifically at this stage.

I think I've addressed both of them adequately, but let me know if you think I'm missing something.

Edosurist · Post Post #407 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:24 am

VC 1.9

LnGrrrR

(2): Candillan, Grimgroove

Candillan

(2): LnGrrrR, imkingdavid

mkfuba07

(1): RachMarie

Syryana

(1): homertve

RachMarie

(1): Syryana

Not voting

: mkfuba07, Bane

Bane and mkfuba07 are receiving prods.
In the future, if I haven't responded to a request within 24 hours, send me a PM.

Day 1 ends in

(expired on 2013-06-07 22:43:00)

.

Bane · Post Post #408 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:31 am

ack sorry. I forgot about this.

I'll post tonight when I get home.

RachMarie · Post Post #409 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:36 am

Ugh sorry I forgot LGR will go back and look at his ISO...

Had not switched votes yet because I was waiting on an official VC.

RachMarie · Post Post #410 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:42 am

Ugh more posts and MS did not tell me again... Previous post was for the last page.

Now that there is an official VC

VOTE: Candi

Grim if you look at most of my posts you will see they are not super heavy on ISOs and content. Plus having to find a bunch of replacements for the games I am modding kinda took most of my thinking time.

Going back to ISO LGR don't know how I missed him.

Good to see Bane getting back into the game.

Candillan · Post Post #411 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:26 pm

@Grim it took a while because I haven't been home at my computer often, and when I was, I was exhausted :/
Also, the to be honest was for the fact that it was the point on you, not the OMGUS.
More later, not home yet.

Syryana · Post Post #412 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:43 pm

In post 381, LnGrrrR wrote:Syr, why do you believe Candi is town?

Gut feeling, and I don't think Candi woulda passed up on a lynch on me the way he did.

In post 385, imkingdavid wrote:This lack of activity from certain players is really starting to piss me off. Several of us have posted our thoughts and carried on conversation at a reasonable pace, but a significant number of players are either AWOL or are purposely active lurking.

Neither Bane nor mkfuba have even visited the site since Friday. Rach has posted something like 35 times since her last post in this thread but has avoided this game specifically.

Yes, very yes.

In post 389, RachMarie wrote:Now both Bane and the mk dude need to be prodded... and I am feeling that probably both will end up being replaced (which makes 3 for the one slot uggh not good...) And we still have nothing of substance from that slot it is a big black hole. That bothers me because if that slot is scum, we are less likely to lynch it because two dudes in it both did nothing but lurk, if that slot is town it is extremely anti town of both players to just flake out and lurk. That was my point.

And Syr you have been playing long enough you should have recognized that and tried putting some pressure on that slot.

A choice between putting pressure on a slot that hasn't posted anywhere on site or a slot that has posted on site but not here. Hmm....

In post 390, RachMarie wrote:1. I am under a fair bit of stress due to a lack of a hearing aid and being 80% deaf, good newa is soon I should have some money so I can get a mold made so I can borrow an over the ear hearing aid until my insurance finally gets off the dime and replaces it.

2. My computer with all my notes and such for all my games died on me. I am sharing a computer with my fiance, which means less time and less notes for me to have. I completely lost ALL my notes I had for this game and a few others and had to start over from scratch.

I'm sorry to hear this

In post 390, RachMarie wrote:I do find Syr to be hard for me to peg, he does a fair bit of trolly behavior in his posts (more so in non newbie games).

Yeah it took me a while to get back to this game because I knew I would have to redo all the ISOing after losing my notes

That does not necessarily make me scum however, and I am wondering if you are going after an easy lynch. I would say I am an easier lynch than shaboo/mk dude since it is clear that slot is about as non existent as can be, while I have posted some just not as much as I should be.

Umm... Lynching the IC is an easy lynch? Instead of lynching the flake? What?

In post 404, LnGrrrR wrote:- His awkward multiple "I'm town" jokes
- His awkward "I don't have a meta" argument
- His null means scum or town comment, which makes no sense. Null does mean they could be either, but he tries to play it off like moving someone to null from scum makes no difference. Remember, he made a comment that he though Grim and I might be a scum team after he listed his reads, and now Grim is upgraded to town with no posted reason.

First two points are null, awkwardness isn't a scumtell
Can you point out where he said the third part?

In post 405, Grimgroove wrote:I understand why you don't want to let the Syryana-thing go. I must shamefully admit he played on my emotions perfectly (maybe without the intention, we'll know later) and I can't help but believe him for now. I do wish he'd get more involved in the game again.

I really wish I was that good as scum

I'm happy with my vote where it is

Someone mentioned they wanted more activity from me, talk to me yo

Candillan · Post Post #413 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:33 pm

Okay I'm home but I'm about to pass out. I'll respond tomorrow if I can!

homertve · Post Post #414 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:30 pm

I reread the "Candillan vs. LnGrrrR (and vice-versa)" thing and the more I think about it, it seems to me like a case of two towns tunneling each other. I can't explain exactly why. They both have "cases" on each other, but they both seem to climb on a tall tree, which they can't (or won't, if one of them is actually scum) climb down from. It doesn't seem to me like a master plan of a scum trying to mislynch the other (but I could be wrong). However, if I have to choose between the two of them, I'd say LnGrrrR seems to me more calculated and dispassionate, which in my eyes seems less townie as Can's behaviour (which is somehow desperate), but again, I think there are more chances they both town.

In post 410, RachMarie wrote:Good to see Bane getting back into the game.

Well, he isn't back. He just dropped by to say hello and vanished again.

Bane · Post Post #415 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:35 pm

actually, i'm sorry,

replace out i guess. Maybe sometime in the furture i'll be able to play with you guys for real.

Grimgroove · Post Post #416 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:36 pm

Really sorry to hear that Bane

In post 414, homertve wrote:I reread the "Candillan vs. LnGrrrR (and vice-versa)" thing and the more I think about it, it seems to me like a case of two towns tunneling each other. I can't explain exactly why. They both have "cases" on each other, but they both seem to climb on a tall tree, which they can't (or won't, if one of them is actually scum) climb down from. It doesn't seem to me like a master plan of a scum trying to mislynch the other (but I could be wrong). However, if I have to choose between the two of them,
I'd say LnGrrrR seems to me more calculated and dispassionate, which in my eyes seems less townie as Can's behaviour
(which is somehow desperate), but again, I think there are more chances they both town.

In post 410, RachMarie wrote:Good to see Bane getting back into the game.
Well, he isn't back. He just dropped by to say hello and vanished again.

Completely agree with the bolded part. Thank you for putting your finger on it, had a hard time doing it myself, but this is what I feel when reading LnGrrrR's posts too.

Grimgroove · Post Post #417 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:45 pm

Just saw that the deadline will be smackdab in the middle of my three-day trip to Barcelona (Friday til Sunday), for which I'm leaving tomorrow evening, so I'll have to reach a personal decision on who to vote at the end of this daystage by then. I don't see any way of coming online while I'm in Spain.
I just hope this won't prove to be a blockage on the proceedings, because with two inactives, every vote counts just the more...

Syryana · Post Post #418 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:50 pm

In post 416, Grimgroove wrote:I'd say LnGrrrR seems to me more calculated and dispassionate, which in my eyes seems less townie as Can's behaviour

I just did a side-by-side of LnGrrR's ISO in this game and the last one. The difference in tone is amazing. Look at the old game and you can feel the mood in L's posting: emotes, punctuation, word choice. In this one, he uses none of that and feels like this:

Spoiler: It's LnGrrR

Like the difference is astonishing.

Grim, before you leave, talk to me. Who do you wanna lynch today? I'm thinking Rach/LnGrrR scumteam, personally.

Grimgroove · Post Post #419 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:57 pm

I'm thinking along the same lines, though one of the two inactives might very well still be part of the scumteam as well.
But with Syryana, homertve and imkingdavid all leaning town for diverse reasons, and a Candillan-LnGrrrR scumteam being hard to imagine, the scumteam you suggest is entirely possible and not far off my mind either.
There's very little interaction between them, and it's difficult to see from the topic what they think about each other.

I have a preference for lynching LnGrrrR today, he's got more postings we can work with after he flips. I don't feel we got enough from RachMarie already in this regard, I don't think her lynch would teach us as much as LnGrrrR's would.

Syryana · Post Post #420 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:03 pm

In post 419, Grimgroove wrote:I have a preference for lynching LnGrrrR today, he's got more postings we can work with after he flips. I don't feel we got enough from RachMarie already in this regard, I don't think her lynch would teach us as much as LnGrrrR's would.

You have a point. LnGrrR's interactions are a lot more varied and intricate than Rach's.

VOTE: LnGrrR
L-2

LnGrrrR · Post Post #421 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:53 pm

@Syr, I looked back at Candi's reads and here they are:

Post 199: Has Grim at the bottom of his scum list (with Crand and I)
Post 313: Of four slots from town to scum, has Grim at slot 3 (with you and me at the scummiest slot 4). Crand/David jumps to super-town.
Post 392: Candi says that Grim is a null read, not a scum read.
Post 396: Candi says a null read means it could be scum or town.

Ok after review, I can see where Grim might have raised up in his eyes. Point retracted.

Im obviously not convincing anyone else, so Im goin to step away for a bit, and then look at some other slots. Hopefully the lurkers will post while Im gone so I have some more info to look at.

LnGrrrR · Post Post #422 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:53 pm

Oh and L-2.

I'm vanilla town.

LnGrrrR · Post Post #423 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:59 pm

If I am going down, I request 24 hours or so to reread the thread fully and provide whatever reads I can. If you all have me as scum Im obviously not doing the job I should be as town, so Id at least like to help in some way.

And re the whole "how could Grim be townie" argument, the reason I kept bringing it up is because the whole idea of making someone scummy for a town action is just... Mindblowingly illogical to me. It actually annoys/ pisses me off to some degree, especially when people are totally fine with semantic "yes/yep" and "town this time" arguments.

Reads and possibly a wall of text incoming in the next day.

Grimgroove · Post Post #424 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:10 am

Do you always claim at L-2? I thought the general procedure was to wait until someone showed intent to hammer at L-1?

Yes, I think the main problem is your Switzerland-complex and tunnel, both of which are interlinked I guess. Your focus has been to singularly on Candillan, making your actions here less pro-town than they were in the previous game, where you provided reads on

everyone

, and questioned

everyone

. Besides the content, there is also a difference in tone. You seem more... serious, darker even. It's really weird but I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed.
Please do provide your reads, have been very interested in seeing those for a while.

Though I half-expect scum to fakeclaim a powerrole, I don't find your VT-claim very convincing, mainly because it comes a bit too soon.