Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[Mantisdreamz]

/confirm

[Mantisdreamz]

also mantis you need to get in here so I can get a read on you!!!

heya

i don't suppose you would want to give me a summary on your take of things?

[Mantisdreamz]

Why don't you read the thread... It's 3 pages long..

i know i'm tired. I usually would have no problem doing that.

anyway, i figured it will also help me to get a sense of pirate molly

[Mantisdreamz]

alright, will be back in a bit with thoughts.

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, ProHawk
Shrimp85 (L-3): Pirate Mollie, Adam-12

, Malakittens

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

looks like a scummy question:

@Levi: Why did you prolong the pre-game?

inferring that that was indeed what leviathan did.

[Mantisdreamz]

is this a question for the sake of a question?

@Shrimp: So is your vote serious or not, I can't seem to tell...

[Mantisdreamz]

No, first time together. Adam, whats your read on mollie?

I would be interested in this as well.

[Mantisdreamz]

is this a question for the sake of a question?

@Shrimp: So is your vote serious or not, I can't seem to tell...

If you read his vote post he at the same time mentions his vote as RVS in a playful manner & as a serious vote for a scum tell. I hold that as disingenuous voting where he can swing responsibility both ways. So, no not a useless question at all.

It looked like shrimp maybe voted molly just as a joke at first. but then, when it was brought to his attention that malakitten was actually serious about her vote on leviathan for not confirming right away, and then saw molly's post where she somewhat furthered the idea by asking mala if it was because she thought leviathan wanted more time in pre scum chat... then his vote turned to a serious one.

i don't know if that makes sense.

guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't find shrimp all that suspicious. and i am wondering about molly myself.

[Mantisdreamz]

though Adam, i do think it's a bit scummy to be asking multiple players how long they have played mafia before. it could be a normal thing to ask... but, it kind of appears like simple questions to ask and kind of seem like filler posts

[Mantisdreamz]

is this a question for the sake of a question?

@Shrimp: So is your vote serious or not, I can't seem to tell...

If you read his vote post he at the same time mentions his vote as RVS in a playful manner & as a serious vote for a scum tell. I hold that as disingenuous voting where he can swing responsibility both ways. So, no not a useless question at all.

It looked like shrimp maybe voted molly just as a joke at first. but then, when it was brought to his attention that malakitten was actually serious about her vote on leviathan for not confirming right away, and then saw molly's post where she somewhat furthered the idea by asking mala if it was because she thought leviathan wanted more time in pre scum chat... then his vote turned to a serious one.

i don't know if that makes sense.

guess what i'm trying to say is that i don't find shrimp all that suspicious. and i am wondering about molly myself.

Did you read the link that Mala provided about this?

no, i don't think i did

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: Or let me put it another way, you don't think scum would not confirm because they are chatting in the Q/T & would be otherwise occupied? Isn't it a reasonable motivation for ultimately falling asleep instead of confirming?

I wouldn't really think so. Scum don't want to look obvious. they will look obvious by avoiding the thread and even avoiding it initially.

[Mantisdreamz]

Molly i was being kind of lazy with this post. But i still would like to hear your thoughts at the moment. You really think Shrimp is scum?

also mantis you need to get in here so I can get a read on you!!!

heya

i don't suppose you would want to give me a summary on your take of things?

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-4):

Shrimp85

, ProHawk
Shrimp85 (L-4):

Pirate Mollie

, Adam-12
Mantis (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Adam-12 (L-4): Shrimp85

Not Voting: Code, Guille, Levi, Mantis, Mala

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

@Adam, so you don't believe Leviathan's explanation?

Well, lets let everyone settle in so we can discuss it.

what should we discuss about it?

[Mantisdreamz]

Well the "otherwise occupied" is what really sticks for me.

Yea... but when it all comes down to it, do you think it's a good solid reason for a vote?

[Mantisdreamz]

Well the "otherwise occupied" is what really sticks for me.

Yea... but when it all comes down to it, do you think it's a good solid reason for a vote?

Yes.

we are talking about the suspicion on leviathan, right?

[Mantisdreamz]

EBWOP: Adam, you don't have to take this grilling from Mantis,

he

she isn't even laying down a vote... fencing all over the place.

Sorry Mantis!

haha

well I was all ready to vote Adam before the last page or so. I still have him in my mind but am not as certain

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

That's not true. i logged onto ratskep just before work in order to proxy my vote, not here though.

time to go back for a read.

Molly, i asked you for the summary at the time, because i was exhausted and really didn't want to read. i also asked you if you really felt that Shrimp was scum, but i don't think you answered that. when i was reading last night, i didn't get a very scummy impression from him. which is why i said i was wondering about you, since you had your vote on him. Also, you placed your vote on leviathan... and i was disagreeing about the whole fact that any votes should have been placed on him, because he didn't confirm right away. I don't think that you normally would follow with that logic. i know that you don't like talk of role pm's or anything that is kind of outside the actual game. And that thing with lev, was somewhat similar to that kind of thing.

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, i also wouldn't say i

think

for sure you are scum... i'll do a reread of the last several pages

what are your thoughts on Adam?

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, who is scum?

i just said

. i'll do a reread of the last several pages

!


but off the top of my head, and from last night's reading,
i think malakitten and leviathan look town

[Mantisdreamz]

not sure about scum though.

i saw a few guille posts while i was skimming.. and those didn't bother me.

[Mantisdreamz]

sorry i mean, guille votes. votes on guile.

[Mantisdreamz]

though, i don't really get this post (at the time didn't get it much either)

Its a major wagon atm.

Ok, forget it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

because Adam, weren't we just talking about how you think it's not unreasonable for Levi to be possible scum because he took long to confirm?

and then it seemed like a few posts later, you were stating that Levi was obvious town. how did you make that leap?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: Have you read Mala's link, re: prolonging confirmation?

no, i wasn't quite sure where to find it. Do you know a post number off hand, or a page whereabouts?

[Mantisdreamz]

Wow, you guys are getting me wrong.

I reviewed Shrimp's overall post history and I seriously don't think he believes what he is posting itt.

Adam, where do you get this conclusion from? I's complete BS.
I don't understand how you all are so confident about lynching Leviathan93 for logging in a bit later. Leviathan93 is one of the newest players.
Don't you even see that that's not a clear scum tell? We have all day, don't try to quick lynch, it would be a waste of all the

precious time

town could use for their benefit.

for some reason, i can't see you being serious and typing out precious time.

[Mantisdreamz]

Shrimp's reactions seem town to me:

First off, I want to say that mantisdreamz seems to be the only one understanding why and what I did. you can see that in post post 87.

Now, my vote is without a doubt going to Adam-12.

His posts are full off useless questions.

Not at all. In both cases valuable information was concluded from that question.

Where is this valuable information?

How long have you been playing Mafia Levi?

filler

@Shrimp: How long have you been playing Mafia?

filler
[quote="adam-12]I think I will do this:

Vote Shrimp

I got no explanation as to why you wanted to vote me in this post.

@Mala: How much do you remember playing with Mollie? Was she town or scum?

Useless

I reviewed Shrimp's overall post history and I seriously don't think he believes what he is posting itt.

This is bullshit, and almost certainly a lie.

I think that he has far more experience that what he is portraying here; i.e. he's not a complete newb to Mafia or this site.

I never stated that I WAS a noob, I DO have more experience indeed.
This post is deceiving BS.

I think he has also tried to avoid responsibility for all this by claiming to be drinking.

This is also a lie, since I never stated that.

So you guys have played together before?

Another filler.

Well, lets let everyone settle in so we can discuss it.

A call for action, but a useless one, it's obvious we have to discuss...it's another filler to make him seem active and pro town.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

Now Levi IS obviously town?
Why?

Ya well, there is no reason not to bring it out I guess, I think everyone here (and anyone else reading this thread later) knows that Levi is town.

No,this is NOT the case, there is no confirmation on Levi's role,where did you get this from?

In fact, my read on Leviathan93 has increased mainly because of these posts.

basically i'm just a simple blacksmith.

Blacksmith? I'm pretty sure there is no such role.

aren't blacksmiths townies? =P point is, i'm claiming i'm a townie.

it's like you don't even know how to claim townie.

I apologize and want to clarify my use of the term "blacksmith" It was an expression I was using to show a just a townsperson. nothing special about them. i could have said baker, or candlestick maker.

Why would you use different words? You get a role in your inbox, and that is what you are.
You can't suddenly change to a candlestick maker.
This seems like you're trying to cover up your scumslip.


VOTE: Adam-12
Almost every post you make is scummy in one way or the other, unbelievable.

And a big

FOS on Leviathan93

Sorry for the long post, but it was necessary.[/quote]

[Mantisdreamz]

though, i don't really get this post (at the time didn't get it much either)

Its a major wagon atm.

Ok, forget it.

Levi is obviously town, his explanation proves that whereas Shrimp's explanation proves he is scum.

The point is that the original case on Levi IS a good reason to vote (the only problem is Levi is town).

because Adam, weren't we just talking about how you think it's not unreasonable for Levi to be possible scum because he took long to confirm?

and then it seemed like a few posts later, you were stating that Levi was obvious town. how did you make that leap?

There are two separate things here:

1) The CASE against Levi which is strong but was dismissed by you and Shrimp
2) Levi's alignment which appears town (with the caveat about a bad newbtown claim but I actually doubt that actually)

So its one thing to talk about the validity of the case (to validate motivations for initially pushing it and invalidate motivations for decrying its validity)

but its something another to talk about his alignment which was made clear subsequent to the case being generated, right?

No of course that's fine to talk about his alignment, when you exclude the whole nonsense case on him, from the beginning.

what has he done though that looks horribly scummy?

also Adam if you are town.. i'm thinking that the back and forth between you and Shrimp is town on town.

[Mantisdreamz]

Shrimp is town. Please place a vote so I know who the scum is and thanks!

i'm not sure what this means? are you thinking i am scum, and that i'm going to place my vote on my other teammate, in order to look good(town cred, etc?)

[Mantisdreamz]

Replying to This post

Try this link:

^^^^ Sorry this link

thank u!

Vote Count

Mantis (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Adam-12 (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Prohawk (L-4): Malakittens
Guile (L-2): Adam-12, ProHawk, Leviathan

Not Voting: Code, Mantis

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Replying to This post

Try this link:

^^^^ Sorry this link

just read it. that's not always going to work

[Mantisdreamz]

guille missed that Adam said his case on Shrimp evaporated

I like Mala's posts up to this point.

Quite a bit of pages last night. Good information.

Vote Adam

It seems like he is focusing all his attention on shrimp, especially on something that was quite minor, IMO. It will be interesting to see where he goes from here after he backed down from his Shrimp crusade.

There is something more from him that caught my eye. His questions are loaded questions. I only see scum intent in loaded questions.

My runner up scummy is Pirate Mollie. This one is more gut that anything else, and that I don't see much scummyness from the other posters.

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

i still can't believe you said that i leave you to die as scum. No, i night kill you night 1 if i am scum!! and the part about this morning is not true.

mollie. for real now i think you are scum

VOTE: pirate mollie

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

That's not true. i logged onto ratskep just before work in order to proxy my vote, not here though.

time to go back for a read.

Molly, i asked you for the summary at the time, because i was exhausted and really didn't want to read. i also asked you if you really felt that Shrimp was scum, but i don't think you answered that. when i was reading last night, i didn't get a very scummy impression from him. which is why i said i was wondering about you, since you had your vote on him. Also, you placed your vote on leviathan... and i was disagreeing about the whole fact that any votes should have been placed on him, because he didn't confirm right away. I don't think that you normally would follow with that logic. i know that you don't like talk of role pm's or anything that is kind of outside the actual game. And that thing with lev, was somewhat similar to that kind of thing.

I was wanting to see where the leviathan votes led to so that is why I voted him. I thought shrimp guy looked squiffy and that is why I voted him and I have since given a reason. I still think he looks a bit squiffy the only way I can internally resolve his dialogue is that he is still somewhat new.

playing off of a "/confirm" in thread is no different than applying pressure when I know other people's work/sleep/posting habits and schedules. not the same thing.

playing off of a role pm is something I hate cos it invariably outs specials by the very nature that is used in the role pm. you are conflating the issue.

maybe it's not the same thing entirely..
but it is still not enough for people to call out scum on him.

i'm not getting your read on Shrimp either. he's coming across as town to me.
why do you find him squiffy?

also mollie, i'm not going to lie, i think you are scum at this point. apologies if you are not. i'm not seeing your votes (leviathan, shrimp and now me) because i said i was wondering about you?

[Mantisdreamz]

^I also asked you what your thoughts on Adam were

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

i still can't believe you said that i leave you to die as scum. No, i night kill you night 1 if i am scum!! and the part about this morning is not true.

mollie. for real now i think you are scum

VOTE: pirate mollie

you left me to die in the tortured artist game and the nightless2 game are you being for realz.

look who has just jumped on a tard fight.

In the nightless game i was trying to work with you! i don't remember exactly what happened in the tortured artist game though, but i'm thinking that you were at least night 1 or night 2 kill.

[Mantisdreamz]

molly, what are your thoughts on guille?

[Mantisdreamz]

i think he looks scummy

[Mantisdreamz]

^I also asked you what your thoughts on Adam were

not sure. he seems to be trying to work things out or do you not think this.

no, i do think this now. originally i wanted to vote him, but now he doesn't look so bad. And i really do believe Shrimp is town. If both Adam and Shrimp are town, it would be worth looking at who, if anyone, helped feed the suspicion on each other. Or.. who stayed out of it.

what do you think of prohawk? rethink this when I flip cos I am pretty sure I will be the lynch I can see things heading in that direction.

i've got prohawk as mostly town. I have never played with him before... so maybe he's good at playing scum. But nothing has seemed to be scummy so far, from his posts.

[Mantisdreamz]

also hawk boy I think you are letting shrimp guy off too easy but will you plz vote mantis with me her number one scum tell besides leaving me to die is thread avoidance and she was on this morning.

i still can't believe you said that i leave you to die as scum. No, i night kill you night 1 if i am scum!! and the part about this morning is not true.

mollie. for real now i think you are scum

VOTE: pirate mollie

you left me to die in the tortured artist game and the nightless2 game are you being for realz.

look who has just jumped on a tard fight.

In the nightless game i was trying to work with you! i don't remember exactly what happened in the tortured artist game though, but i'm thinking that you were at least night 1 or night 2 kill.

in the tortured artist game you left me to die and I had to face 48 hours of ganging it cost town 2 days cos gib asked me to save myself so I voted praying. you were scum.

in the nightless2 game you let jason and I tear each other to itty bitty pieces you were scum in that game too!

however you are going after me on here so there is a difference.

I am not scum mantis.

You and Jasona were an entirely different entity from the game I don't think even town or scum could have stepped in on that 4 day argument! lol

Well, you say you are not scum, and i hope you aren't, because i'd like to work with you as town here. But, i'm still cautious and not entirely sure.

[Mantisdreamz]

guille missed that Adam said his case on Shrimp evaporated

I like Mala's posts up to this point.

Quite a bit of pages last night. Good information.

Vote Adam

It seems like he is focusing all his attention on shrimp, especially on something that was quite minor, IMO. It will be interesting to see where he goes from here after he backed down from his Shrimp crusade.

There is something more from him that caught my eye. His questions are loaded questions. I only see scum intent in loaded questions.

My runner up scummy is Pirate Mollie. This one is more gut that anything else, and that I don't see much scummyness from the other posters.

Looks like a scum skim to me...

It really does in a way. I was thinking, maybe he prepared that post a little while before he posted it. And missed out on some of the current going ons ...... maybe i should take a look at the time stamps again.

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe it's not the same thing entirely..
but it is still not enough for people to call out scum on him.

Even with a link proving the same?? How can you believe this??

yes!!! I don't think that just because it worked in one game that it should be really considered in another game that the same thing is happening. I think it was just fluke. It's like saying that the first person who /confirms in a game is town. and that's nonsense.

Vote Count

Mantis (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Adam-12 (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Prohawk (L-4): Malakittens
Guile (L-2): Adam-12, ProHawk, Leviathan
Pirate Mollie (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, who is scum?

i just said

. i'll do a reread of the last several pages

!


but off the top of my head, and from last night's reading,
i think malakitten and leviathan look town

Mala looks town? I thought you didn't like the Levi case??

No, i don't/didn't like the levi case. And i knew by me thinking that Mala seemed town, that there was a bit of contradiction there. It was the way that Mala worded herself and went on a huge hunt to see who had been online

and now that i know that she had actually found scum by doing that in another game (BY FLUKE!).. her actions seem like an eager townie, possibly finding the same results in this game, as she did another.

[Mantisdreamz]

possibly thinking*** that the same thing was happening in this game

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm not sure what this means? are you thinking i am scum, and that i'm going to place my vote on my other teammate, in order to look good(town cred, etc?)

Are you glued to the fence or something? You don't need to read between the lines, I don't leave a whole lot of space. Your vote will obviously be for scum, so when you put it down I will know where to go. That is unless you are scum and you would vote for one of the elite.

On second thought I like your idea even more. Please do share who your teammate is and if we should go after him with a watcher or a tracker...

i missed this post earlier.
the last sentence made me laugh

I think i'm posting too much in this thread now though

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: mollie
VOTE: guille

[Mantisdreamz]

Just a quick post
UNVOTE: guille

To prevent a hammer
I didn't realize i had put him at l-1

[Mantisdreamz]

mantis shrimp guy is grooming you.

That occurred to me, but not sure he still doesn't seem that scummy.
What do u find scummish exactly?

[Mantisdreamz]

mantis have you looked at any pairings. this is something that I really didn't have much experience with cos most of the games we play are larger but in the couple of completed games on here it was interesting to go back and see the relationship between the 2 scum. it was really interesting in the newb game.

not sure cos I am still trying to figure out if bussing is a huge thing on this site cos of the style of how people are lynched. would someone bus their teammate in order to gain town cred on d1 and then play the game like an indie? I dunno. I could see them fosing them even voting for them but not pushing their lynch but then in my newb game I let scum slide cos of this very same thinking. well that and cos majiffy was retarded enough to give them a town read when I was questioning them right before he died.

I get the feeling that busing is fairly common.

So you asking me about pairing prompted me to go back and do a re read. (by the way) - i saw that you said that I will probably go all weird on you, since you've tricked me as scum, probably the last 3 times you were scum. you saying that and recognizing that, actually makes me feel better about you. But, there's still a niggle.

Anyway, your question about pairings prompted me to go back for a full read.

if i were to say right now. I think Malakitten and Prohawk look like they could be a scum pair.

I've got a whole bunch of posts waiting in my browser that i want to comment on... so i'll post those very soon. warning, it will probably be a WOT.

I'll also say, i think Adam and Shrimp look very town to me. And i feel pretty certain about that. (hope i'm not wrong)

Mollie, i'm also, just got right now, going on the basis that you are town. Even if you are not, i'm still just going to blind myself right now... because, i know that i probably could very well get trolley tracked on you, even if it's not correct.

Also - yes, i know that i said Mala looked like town earlier because of the way she went about her case on Levi at the beginning. but .. who says scum can't do that?

actually, this post here.. your response to her. is similar to how i feel, after doing the full read: ( i bolded the part of yours that i agreed with

#146I already asked them to stop the conversation regarding role PM's.

where did you do this?

thinking you are pretty disengaged despite my liking you intro into the game.

Why am I disengaged?

also, prohawk seems to be skirting along the edges too. posting short blurbs each time.

Adam and Shrimp, on the other hand,have been posting long ass posts. that seem like reactionary town to me.

This post of Adam's:

Ok, based on all this posting from Shrimp I think his mindset is clear when he voted for Mollie and I think he really believed it. I can even support his vote, after a fashion.

When I ISO'ed what I thought was his sitewide posting history earlier I thought I found a condemning quote from him but upon going back to try and find it again, I can't find it. I had several pages open at the time and was also working. I'm not sure who the quote was actually from but its not from him.

This means my case on him has evaporated.

I'm sure someone will say something like, "Oh, look he votes you and you cave" or "The wagon dissipates and you hop off" but I really don't care. The most important thing is the integrity of my play.

I need to digest the recent flurry of posts and re-read the day to find a new direction.

Unvote

Seems very town to me.


I may as well add one more post here.

Molly, one of the reasons i was concerned about you, was because of this post:

Hey Mollie, did you forget that you are scum?

haha, not scum but good try so wtf do you make of the blacksmith bizness that malacat and levianthan were banging on about I am town it is not in my role pm nor does the term blacksmith indicate the flavour what are they talking about do you know?

Because .. we have the role pm's all listed there in the OP (or 3rd post or so of Majiffy's). nowhere does it mention blacksmith. So it seemed like you could have been trying to throw some extra suspicion around on Levi.. ***


*** i'll address this in my next post, that i'm not entirely certain Levi is town now, as much as i was before.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: What is your take on Mollie at this point?

i'm going to leave her alone right now, because i don't want my extra paranoia-suspicion, of her in her last few games (where she was scum), taint my read on her now.

[Mantisdreamz]

Adam off the top of your head, what is your opinion of Malakitten and Prohawk?

[Mantisdreamz]

Well first off, I don't think it is constructive to talk about pairings without flips and I think were better off not going down this road until at least D2.

But:

I have noticed some shifting regarding Mala's posting. I am still processing it all and am not sure what to think at this point.

I have not seen a single thing that Hawk as done that leads me to think he is scum as long as he keeps posting.

no, i felt that way with Pro Hawk too. but compared to everyone else (not including guille or code-x), he seems to be laying back and taking it easy. (not really getting overly riled)

[Mantisdreamz]

also, why exactly is it no good to talk about potential pairings?

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis vote on me in # is bad. She points out misinformation in #202, and even after mentioning me as scum several times, she doesn't vote until #229, with a vote on Mollie in between.

I think she was warranted on calling you scummy. What you have done so far IS scummy. Personally, I didn't find what she did regarding the error as scummy; just pursuing a valid scum suspect.

I did actually misread guille's post. in post 202.

[Mantisdreamz]

few things i have wanted to comment on...

Levi

mafia talk time? they can do that?

I thought you could only do that during a night thing.

and go where mollie? hasn't the game just started?

as for being on the sight, I'm always on the sight or at least I always have the sight on tab on my computer even if i'm sleeping. that way its easy access to follow my games and see who post what and I can be updated faster and respond quicker.

and i think that Shrimp kind of had the right point here, when he said:

mafia talk time? they can do that? I thought you could only do that during a night thing. and go where mollie?

I understand that this can be seen as a response from a true townie, but this can just as easily be scum pretending not to know. (or even actually not knowing, he is new.)
The whole "go where mollie?" Is also pretty ridiculous... It's obvious Pirate Mollie did not mean to go to a certain location or anything.
To me it seems more like a noob claim.

^I was looking at the first post and thinking that it might be noob scum going overboard with appearing noob and asking just a whole bunch of questions (i bolded them)

@adam, I appreciate that. =)

and I agree with adam, I did not feel like Mala was being sarcastic towards me in voting me for not confirming when I should of. she felt like it was something scum would do possibly from her experience in playing the game.

though, I will say it was an innocent misunderstanding on her part

, because I know my reason for acting the way I did and stated it for y'all to see.

^my bold. leviathan... why do you assume that it is an innocent misunderstanding on Mala's part? You don't think she could be scum trying to paint you under a bad light? Are you scum, and know that she is town?

how are we out of the RVS stage? I have no idea who I want to lynch yet. but I will state what I believe from what we have.

Mala seems an adamant experienced scumhunter.
Adam seems to be innocent
Prohawk intimidates me but I have nothing

Shrimp just seems to be plain wrong about stuff

mollie seems to just jump on someone elses decision.
leviathan I state I am plain white townie.

This is my analysis.

[/quote]
^bolded. At this point, Shrimp had voted pirate mollie. Did you know that she was innocent, hence why you say he's wrong? or i guess he was also wrong about reading Mala's post as sarcastic as opposed to serious. But coule you expand on all of this?

[Mantisdreamz]

also, why exactly is it no good to talk about potential pairings?

It is really tinfoil hat without some flips (specifically scum flips). It creates a false sense of certainty and moves the scum hunting analysis into the realm of "pairings" which is deceitful. Its wine you don't wanna drink until you have something solid to go off of (scum flips).

we all know that it is wine in front of us. But i don't think it hurts to speculate right now.

[Mantisdreamz]

I have noticed some shifting regarding Mala's posting. I am still processing it all and am not sure what to think at this point.

could you try to explain?

[Mantisdreamz]

Nice try Mantis

Long Posts

equal

Town.
Shots Posts

equal

Scum.

You will most likely not see walls come from me unless we make it to lylo and it is necessary to fish out the last scumbag. Regarding being riled, lead a wagon on me to L-1 and you will see me riled at the rest of my town buddies' foolish blindness.

@Mala - No Intent, Nor Desire oh astute one. You along with Mollie fell into my trap - try not to be too befuddled.

@Rest -

Does anyone

not

see the fishiness in Molly?

She won't put any heat back on me for catching her scumminess early on (in fact she tries to buddy up), until she gets something that she has backup on (Mala) and that appears scummy at first glance?

hmmm

[Mantisdreamz]

also, why exactly is it no good to talk about potential pairings?

It is really tinfoil hat without some flips (specifically scum flips). It creates a false sense of certainty and moves the scum hunting analysis into the realm of "pairings" which is deceitful. Its wine you don't wanna drink until you have something solid to go off of (scum flips).

we all know that it is wine in front of us. But i don't think it hurts to speculate right now.

Speculating in private is fine if you want to but posting about it will affect public mindset and thus potentially votes and that's anti-town.

but you've said that it will create a false sense of security. But just because you say that, i don;'t see how it will create that. how is it much different from stating your scum reads and who you think could be certain scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

I have noticed some shifting regarding Mala's posting. I am still processing it all and am not sure what to think at this point.

could you try to explain?

Well there some issues on the table but I am working through it as we speak. I think Mollie noticed the change too. I'm 4 pages back atm. I will update when I'm done.

sounds good.

[Mantisdreamz]

also, why exactly is it no good to talk about potential pairings?

It is really tinfoil hat without some flips (specifically scum flips). It creates a false sense of certainty and moves the scum hunting analysis into the realm of "pairings" which is deceitful. Its wine you don't wanna drink until you have something solid to go off of (scum flips).

we all know that it is wine in front of us. But i don't think it hurts to speculate right now.

Speculating in private is fine if you want to but posting about it will affect public mindset and thus potentially votes and that's anti-town.

but you've said that it will create a false sense of security. But just because you say that, i don;'t see how it will create that. how is it much different from stating your scum reads and who you think could be certain scum?

The problem is we don't have flips and are uncertain of alignments. Using "pairing" to scum hunt without scum flips is a false scum hunting technique; its illusory. Scum hunting is based on scum tells by individuals, when the individual actually flips scum then its safe to hunt by pairings.

yes but it also gives you the chance to step back and see who has interacted with who. for example, i would say that you and shrimp are not scum together. someone may also say that mollie and i aren't scum together.

i'm not going to argue it though, i think i can see somewhat what you mean.. in that, it's best to just focus on one person at a time... and being that that can even be difficult in itself (to find one scum).. that it's even more wifom to look for 2 at once.

but still it's still good to look at who has kept a distance from one another.

[Mantisdreamz]

Hunting by pairings is like eating donuts, you get a quick high but ultimately no nutrition and a sugar/carb crash. Individual scum tells are the meat and potatoes of scum hunting.

that doesn't even make sense! you just thought it sounded good to say it.

[Mantisdreamz]

EBWOP: That quote should not have been in there.... please disregard.

how come you had that post of Mala's in your quoting memory?

[Mantisdreamz]

Malakitten, why are you sticking up for Guille so much?

[Mantisdreamz]

Mala, you have talked a lot about Levi, and how he shouldn't have claimed town. and also how his list of too many town reads, looked off. now you are sticking up for guille.

i have to do check back, i admit. but i'm getting the sense that you're really not getting too much into scum hunting.

i do recall one long post of yours where you summed up everyone. i'll take a look at that again. but other than that post, you haven't said much.

are you still happy with your vote on Pro hawk?

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: Malakittens

[Mantisdreamz]

Mala, do you still find pro hawk suspicious and are you still happy with your vote on him?

[Mantisdreamz]

Malakitten, why are you sticking up for Guille so much?

Not the best question to ask at this particular moment 9.9

Maybe we can shelve this until after Guille starts posting regularly?

Pretty please?

I was trying to respond to this earlier.. but, it confused me too much. i wanted to ask you why that question to mala should be shelved? but since you seemed so adamant about not asking this question, i didn't actually want to ask you.

[Mantisdreamz]

Ok, I think I have misunderstood the term "groom" and I suspect it comes from another site. I thought it meant setting someone up for later lynch but I think what it really means is "buddying"??

it is a type of buddying I guess. when I think of "buddying" I usually use the word "cosying", grooming is a sweet set up for endgame or a midgame nk flip. cosying supports reads while grooming supports character does this make sense.

or you could say grooming is something that scum do to one or more town persons. they'll agree with their reads, and might even put a very townish read on them in order for them to feel positive about the groomer.


mollie, the post where you said that my foses and vote looks terrible.. maybe. I'm on mala. but, if you are town, as well as adam and possibly shrimp (from my perspective). that leaves only guille, code-x, mala and prohawk and levi.

-there's no read on code-x
-guille looked bad to me because i thought he was posting and pretending that he didn't realize that adam gave up his scum read on shrimp. but it turns out i misread his post. he's more unsure to me now.
-have to admit now, with levi, that he could be trying to play the noob card

that leaves mala and prohawk. I don't pretend to be that certain that both are scum, or even one of them. but they are playing kind of low key, to an extent and they appear somewhat townish. But they are really not putting themselves out there that much or flailing around. scum do that.

but i'm not really against levi being scum.

i still have put you on a 'don't go there' thing right now.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: What do you think about my post regarding Mollie? Does it make any sense? I'd rather hear your full opinion in your own words than address any specific concerns/thoughts that I have.

i've got to properly read the last 2 pages or so but i'll get back to you on this in a bit

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-3): Guile, Malakittens
Leviathan93 (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Code-X (L-4): Leviathan93
Pirate Mollie (L-2): ProHawk, Shrimp85, Adam-12
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code-X

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, how certain are you that shrimp could be scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

it all falls apart when you have to marry the idea that I am okay with getting lynched. like

really

I am okay with getting lynched.

speaking of cognitive-dissonance you have been treating me like town and trying to milk me for inside scum play but keeping your vote on me. lol

^Adam, maybe you should remove your vote from mollie, if you are town.

[Mantisdreamz]

Hate getting behind...

Adam, you asked me a question in 338, but I think you got it figured out. Let me know if you still need it cleared up.

Mollie, you are only the evil scum-lord to me. (You should really try to point out my intense tunneling on you instead of your AtE... it doesn't seem to be working out so well)

Lev - Really need to hear your so called town-case on our evil scum-lord here. Spill the beans.

Mala - That goes for you too, you have been very quiet about this Mollie bizness.

hmmmmmm

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe pro hawk and levi?

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, how certain are you that shrimp could be scum?

not certain at all.

can't tell if he is retarded or scum.

could you see a pro hawk and levi team?

[Mantisdreamz]

i'mj ust doing a thorough reread now and missed this before

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep. the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose but it is untrue that I am trying to fight for survival I am telling mantis I am town so that we can team up and pressure some player's asses we have until the 17th.

i am up for that.

just asked you a question about levi and prohawk, you may have already responded.

[Mantisdreamz]

I would like to note that I particularly do not like this quote:

but addressing the subtle observation factor...just coming off of 3 games where I was scum. the audio one on this site, TO and ratskep.

the eau de scum perfume has not worn off I suppose

This is a very clever statement that sounds good on the surface but really boils down to saying, "I know I looked scummy but I just played 3 games as scum in a row and so its not my fault" but at the same time she demonstrates deep knowledge of scum game play (especially evidenced by her most recent posts). I find this to be manipulative and a serious case of cog-dis; which is she, an expert player or one that is swayed by forces beyond her control?

My opinion at this point is that she is trying to weasel her way out of suspicion in any way that she can and the cog-dis here is pretty good evidence of that.

it all falls apart when you have to marry the idea that I am okay with getting lynched. like

really

I am okay with getting lynched.

speaking of cognitive-dissonance you have been treating me like town and trying to milk me for inside scum play but keeping your vote on me. lol

^Adam, maybe you should remove your vote from mollie, if you are town.

Because she is saying she wants to be lynched? Frankly, in evaluating her defense overall, I don't get a solid townie feel from it. I think she is a master manipulator and I am definitely feeling that but I don't like the cog-dis at all.

not necessarily just because she says she wants to be lynched. but an overall feeling im getting from her recent posts.

i'll ask you this way... if you put mollie aside who would be your other top choice? and then after your top choice, who would be your second choice?

[Mantisdreamz]

Also I have a really busy day tomorrow so I probably won't be on at all to do any vote counts after I go to sleep for the evening.

slacker.

[Mantisdreamz]

Ok, on Levi. For him to be playing the newb card is deeply as he is playing it, he would have to be skilled scum and from reviewing his sitewide ISO, he just isn't. I read him as genuine inexperienced town.

the last sentence... that's the whole point though. that you read him that way (if he is scum).

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-3): Guile, Malakittens
Leviathan93 (L-4): Pirate Mollie
Code-X (L-4): Leviathan93
Pirate Mollie (L-2): ProHawk, Shrimp85, Adam-12
Malakittens (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Code-X

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

I am not getting a good handle on who is scum period which is why I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team.

I still think hawk boy or levi is the best way to go preferably levi

who provided a list of everyone appearing innocent or innocentish. but hey my self worth is not invested in being right all of the time there are better things to base that on.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

before this post though, i had pro hawk as possible scum. And then questioned about Levi.

so how do my foses look terrible? granted.. i did have a vote on Mala at the time.
But, i'm also wondering why you said that busing is unlikely?

[Mantisdreamz]

Ok, on Levi. For him to be playing the newb card is deeply as he is playing it, he would have to be skilled scum and from reviewing his sitewide ISO, he just isn't. I read him as genuine inexperienced town.

the last sentence... that's the whole point though. that you read him that way (if he is scum).

Ok, but the idea that he is "playing the newb card" is just not applicable here. A case for newb-scum is possible but I haven't gotten that feel from him unless you mean Blacksmith Gate.

no, i'm not bringing into mind the blacksmith stuff he mentioned. What i have in mind is all the questions... (which, for a new player is perfectly fine).. but i'm talking about some of the questions that just seemed over the top. i'll look back and post some, because there were a few that stuck out to me

[Mantisdreamz]

I just caught up to this post which i said i would respond to earlier

@Mantis: What do you think about my post regarding Mollie? Does it make any sense? I'd rather hear your full opinion in your own words than address any specific concerns/thoughts that I have.

I'm guessing that you mean what you wrote about her here:

Mollie -- Upon my re-examination of Mollie I did come across something I missed earlier but stands out to me now. Across many of her posts she seems preoccupied with being lynched and declaring that she is not scum. These declarations have also been accompanied by AtE which I found odd; such as, "When I flip re-examine this" and "I am looking to be the next lynch, I can see things going that way" and "Let me post these reads before people follow Hawk in lynching me". Her vote for Hawk had no explanation. She also directed the tracker/watcher in post #247. She also tends to describe her behavior as scum to show herself as town (self meta); such as, "I WoT as scum" and others. What I liked about Mollie was her level head, strong demeanor & mafia skills and these traits created a town profile in my mind that sort of hid these other subtle signs of scum-conscious behavior. The easy scum tells are usually the ones that result in a D1 lynch of a townie. I am always in favor of the more subtle tells because they're the ones that tend to catch scum. I think a vote here is in order.

i do think it makes sense. and that it looks bad for her. in the last several posts i've made, (before i saw the post you made on her).. i was saying that she seemed better to me overall. I do have history playing with mollie.. and i have often been tricked by her as scum. But.. there have been a lot of scum games that she has played in which she hung back and made long-ish posts, that made a lot of sense. There have also been games that i've played when she was scum and took an OMGUS route. (she doesn't always take the same route of playing scum)... and I thought i saw some of that in this game earlier. She was my initial scum read, actually along with you.

However, for some reason, her latest posts, past 3-4 pages or so have not bothered me. So even though she did get defensive about her lynch.. i know that she hates being mislynched as town. so that could account for her response. .. to bring some actual facts into it, I liked that she has more of a town read on you. And when I asked her about how sure she was on Shrimp being scum... she did not say "yes!" and bring up a whole case on him.

I don't know if all that helps much.

basically though i wouldn't like to see her lynched today.

Adam - what are your thoughts on pro hawk again? i think you were saying that you thought he was town. but can you say why exactly?

[Mantisdreamz]

^scum

I was just going to ask you if you thought he looked scum with that post.

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

++

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

i think that she's town. pretty certain actually.

[Mantisdreamz]

In my process of evaluating her defense, her initial responses got me to doubt the validity of Number 2 and forced me to look deeper into her recent posts. That's when I discovered the cog-dis and identified that she was being manipulative. That's when the case started to stick for me.

++

^was cleaning my keyboard, and had this post quoted. did not mean to submit.

[Mantisdreamz]

i think that she's town. pretty certain actually.

And... what revelation have you that we don't?

i've played with her many many times before and her posts look genuine to me right now.
thinking that guile is scum and i want to vote him but am going to check to make sure i'm not hammering (in order to give him leeway time to claim if he has to)

[Mantisdreamz]

i think guille is making a huge case on mollie because, i think scum were banking on her getting lynched. and they want to keep it that way.

UNVOTE: malakitten
VOTE: guille

[Mantisdreamz]

@Pirate Mollie

: The only other game that you used the word Grooming was the Newbie 1286 game. I don't want to read through it, can you give me a summary of where that got you, considering you were town in that game.

i've heard her use grooming countless times before.

Conclusion: Adam has the best case on Mollie, and I agree with him. She is inconsistent. She overreacts to certain accusations and her OMGUS is off the charts.

i like how you added in that Adam (who is most likely town) has a good case on her. maybe you are buddying up to him?

[Mantisdreamz]

ctrl+z works wonders.

No...fricken way. I never knew this.

Pirate mollie

throw something in there about retarded town herd mentality and I might actually think you are not retarded.

you are very busy ad-hominemming. And this is working against you really.
Your whole post in post 415 is full of personal insults.

I find this voting guille pretty ridiculous.
I am pretty sure both scum are on that wagon now.
That wagon just grows way too fast, at first the reason was because he didn't post much, but now?

Prohawk, Mantisdreamz and Pirate mollie, I would like to know clearly why you find Guille2015 scum.
Just for informations sake.
I really can't find any scummy behavior in Guille2015.

I don't like Mantisdreamz because I believe mantis is just following whatever Pirate Mollie does.
At first you have a scum read on mollie, and then later on you want to team up?

i'm not following her. just believe her to be town right now. and my vote on guille is because of the town read on mollie. i know that she has done some scummy looking things technically... but the way she is coming across seems genuine to me. and i am taking a big leap of faith here cause she as often tricked me as scum. which is why at the beginning i was super conscious of her and also paranoid. especially with her vote on me and other things like voting levi. but that was before when i had a town read on levi. i don't anymore. and i think that he could very well be opportunistic noob scum. one of his posts, or several of them actually, have contained many questions that look like he could just be taking advantage of the noob card.

if she is town, i think scum are definitely taking the opportunity to pick out discrepancies in her posts, and then running with them.

i certainly hope that i'm not wrong on this, cause it will be very embarrassing. but i really don't think i am.

and guille with his 2 huge posts with a bunch of links, doesn't make me feel good about him. like i said before, if mollie is town, i think scum are really banking on getting her lynched today. and by guille making huge cases, it will provide town with all sorts of 'evidence' to lynch her. and then, when she flips town, guille will point back to his posts and say 'well, look at everything i had on her!' why is he going to such huge effort to get her lynched?

i'm going to do a reread.
and will have some thoughts in a bit. i want to go back and confirm my read on mollie at this point. to make sure i'm not just being an idiot.

[Mantisdreamz]

also, pro hawk kind of looks better to me. maybe he is the type of player to lay back. not sure.

[Mantisdreamz]

I am not getting a good handle on who is scum period which is why I am good with my lynch at least it will provide info for my team.

I still think hawk boy or levi is the best way to go preferably levi

who provided a list of everyone appearing innocent or innocentish. but hey my self worth is not invested in being right all of the time there are better things to base that on.

thinking on all of this mantis your votes and foses look truly terrible.

before this post though, i had pro hawk as possible scum. And then questioned about Levi.

so how do my foses look terrible? granted.. i did have a vote on Mala at the time.
But, i'm also wondering why you said that busing is unlikely?

it is your vote on malacat. also I said that the scenario was unlikely not that bussing was unlikely. sorry I got weird on you I guess it is cos I am surprised that you are trusting me at this point after I just flipped scum but then the other scum team must have thought I was town too or they would not have killed me. you are dead in that game btw.

if malacat can do what she says she can do then give her til d3.

I keep coming back to hawk boy cos of how sticky his vote is and he is not even trying to look anywhere else this is what I did in the audio game it gave me leeway to prime you and maestro for an endgame scenario as in I left you 2 alone and made so much noise with thor that it allowed the both of you to lay on the periphereal so that there was no clearcut path that pointed to either of you when I was lynched. I can't wrap my head around a town motivation for a vote to be that sticky and would like for pressure to be placed on him to draw out his other reads so that he can be held accountable later in the game.

I don't like how adam is treating me as town but is okay with my lynch or his suck up posts to hawk boy but I am still going with that he is town. adam, when I flip I would like a short 5 paragraph essay on why you suck at mafia and why preference of style over substance is bad. throw something in there about retarded town herd mentality and I might actually think you are not retarded. hint, look up confirmation bias. this is all predicated on that you are town of course and do it in post game plz.

shrimp guy looks opportunistic as fuck but again retarded town herd mentality/confirmation bias and all. adam and shrimp look like they might be classic forum mafia xenophobes as in they don't know how to assimilate different playstyles or lateral thinking unless you pretty it up for them. I had to deal with a ton of it in my first game on this site in the titanium game where I was lynched d1 as town. adam if you are town and into the meta thing you should go read that game I had scum in my sights in my very first post got talked out of it but then had him back cos like you, he treated me as town but lynched me anyways. there was another player who did this too but he said if there was more time he would have kept me in the game. he ended up facing a ton of fire throughout the game but I understood where he was coming from since he had just subbed in. I am not sure how adam fits into this train of thought but I think shrimp guy might just be dumb but who knows.

so if I step away from a d1 town pile on and look at who is skating on the edges it puts hawk boy, malacat, guille and levi in the forefront. not touching malacat til d3 and hawk boy is getting his hands somewhat dirty so if I work from a hawk boy might actually be town axis that leaves guille and levi. guille got super cranky and looks like he is playing it safe cos why has he not followed his "gut bad pizza read" read and just vote me already cos there is the possibility of knowing how I will flip that's why. that is what I mean by playing it safe.

wow what a nice brain dump.

i think it was a good brain dump too. and is one of the reasons i'm trusting you at this point.
i like the end conclusion with guille and levi being scum. i can see that.

as for adam treating you as town though.. i don't really think he is so much. him asking you questions doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks you are town.


also adam and shrimp, if you think i am town at all.. can you please trust my read on mollie?


yes. i am focusing on her a lot. but it's because she has been a focal point for a lot of players, and also has been within the last few pages.

you guys are on the wrong track though. and i think you are both town, so that's why i'm directing this to you

[Mantisdreamz]

Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day.

[Mantisdreamz]

Congratulations, you have a vote-count now!

[Mantisdreamz]

Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day.

I don't get the Levi scumread. All I really see is that you assert that it's plausible that prohawk and levi could be scum together (#386). You definitely had him as town earlier and I don't get the reason for 1) the change in the first place or 2) how that would hold up now that you think prohawk's looking more town in #485 (which I also don't get). Explain?

i liked pro hawk's vote switch to guille.

i had levi as town at the beginning for a reason that i have no recollection of right now. <- i bet someone's going to try to use that sentence against me.

levi does not seem that town to me right now. need more participation from him.

[Mantisdreamz]

And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.

no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc

note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.

Talking about grooming, if grooming is such a scum tell, then what's mantisdreamz doing in post 488.

also adam and shrimp, if you think i am town at all.. can you please trust my read on mollie?

I'm not going to agree with your read on mollie.
In post

206

you say you have a huge scum read on mollie, and then later on you want to team up.
Totally switchy.
In post

381

you even tell adam to take his vote off of Mollie, because if he doesn't you're calling him scum.
Sounds like a threat.

Ok! that's nonsense!
here's what i said in post 381:

^Adam, maybe you should remove your vote from mollie, if you are town.

where on earth do you get the part where i'm calling him scum if he doesn't??

also, yes i was paranoid of mollie at the beginning. reads tend to change as a game progresses you know.

I do not agree with almost anything you have been doing lately, so no, I will not trust your read on mollie.

ok.

Vote Count

Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-2): Shrimp85, Adam-12, Guile
Guile (L-2): ProHawk, Pirate Mollie, Mantisdreamz
ProHawk(L-4): borkjerfkin

Not Voting: leviathan93

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie did you see my post to shrimp above? he completely twisted things around!

[Mantisdreamz]

You are definitely number one scum read, and Mantisdreamz is climbing up that ladder too.
your excuse for team working is because you have apparently played so many games together.
I don't trust this at all, I'm going to ask you one question.
Do you two know each other personally?
It might be that one or even both are scum or town, but that you two would work together regardless of each others alignments.
If you did know each other personally, there would be no stopping from you two communicating outside the game.
Which would ruin the game completely.

I see your suspicion, you're wondering since i switched on my mollie read from scum to town, it makes you wonder if there's outside communication going on.

well, i don't know her in person but we have known each other for quite some time over several forums.

i know you'll just have to trust when i say, that i wouldn't and i know as well that mollie wouldn't break a game that way.

i've got the time today, so i've been trying to just go over the thread, and maybe see if i've missed anything.

it's true that i have been kind of adamant about her being town now, but i have to check myself maybe. cause nothing is certain in this game really. At least not at this point.

[Mantisdreamz]

Ya he did have a good point there. I'm glad you guys are following the rules even on Skype.

indeed. i haven't signed onto skype since i've signed up for too many games on here anyway


bork - one thing in one of your posts that i didn't like much, was you said that there's no point in going back and commenting and that many things since, if you were scum, you could easily manipulate things. (i think it was something to that extent that you said)

but, if you were town, you really wouldn't worry about those things at all, or worry how you look.

[Mantisdreamz]

i liked pro hawk's vote switch to guille.

i had levi as town at the beginning for a reason that i have no recollection of right now. <- i bet someone's going to try to use that sentence against me.

levi does not seem that town to me right now. need more participation from him.

You didn't really answer me. I don't really care why you initially had him as town, I care more why you first say 1) Levi and Hawk makes a likely team and afterword 2) Prohawk looks more town now. This looks like a backhanded way to switch your read on Levi without a reason.

what do you mean by switching my read to levi without a reason? do you think that since i named prohawk as looking not too bad now, that i'm going to say the same thing about levi?

[Mantisdreamz]

ProHawk: Does me being quiet = scummy? You played before with me and you know exactly what I'm doing.

I am disappointed in this. Nuff Said. Please re-read #378. Quiet

equal

scummy. Quiet wasn't the key word, Mollie was.

Mollie! You almost took my advice, but what I

really

like is how you bait Adam into tunneling you with this AtE "you think im scum but treat me like town" BS, and then accuse him of being sticky. Its quite comical indeed. Your AtE attacks and cries are like a spotlight in my face, can't see much of your content around the blinding light. Dial it back a notch or two. You are looking like a promising lynch today, but I did find one gem in all of the scummy fluff.

guille

got super cranky

and looks like he is

playing it safe

cos why has he not followed his "gut bad pizza read" read and just vote me already cos there is the possibility of

knowing how I will flip

that's why. that is what I mean by playing it safe.

ALL of his posts (few I might add) are like this. What is the deal with these fence sitters this game? Guille, you are taking your sweet time which just may be how you play, but its lookin bad to me. I would much rather see you take time to compile a complete post, instead of leaving us with bits and pieces and have to wait a whole day to get part B.

Sorry Mollie, its time for a new angle.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guille

Anyone else notice how he managed to make it all the way to L-1, with my voicings of impending doom causing the not so innocent to lash out in anger and he

fails to even mention

anything about it?

Well, there is more where scum Guille is concerned, lets see if anyone else can find the clues...

Guille its time for some real fire beneath your wings. Wagon Ho!

yea, it is curious that he didn't really mention it.

[Mantisdreamz]

mantis why are you enabling jerome on the zombie board there is a reason none of us are on it and teeth was a dummy I was going to die anyway that's how a suicide bomber works you know if you would get on skype I wouldn't have to be telling you this stuff in a game thread, lol.

Lol.

see skype comment from one of my previous posts tonight.

jerome really tries though. he thinks he's doing good

[Mantisdreamz]

2) What info has he divined from it so far?

You're joking right? Can someone please tell me this is a joke? Go read Guille's posts and tell me what info Guille has given anyone since my vote switch. All I got was Guille saying basically "Good luck with that" and then a vote post on Mollie.

sorry bork that line is kind of funny for some reason.

..

Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day.

^this is something i said earlier. oh i guess Shrimp didn't misrepresent it.

either way, I was thinking levi or guille. but thinking on it now, these 2 have been low posters and i doubt that both of the low posters are scum. that's way to easy to look at it that way. so i'd like to take back this comment.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis -- I still don't understand the scum read on Levi.

due to these posts at the beginning.

this post:

mafia talk time? they can do that? I thought you could only do that during a night thing. and go where mollie? hasn't the game just started? as for being on the sight, I'm always on the sight or at least I always have the sight on tab on my computer even if i'm sleeping. that way its easy access to follow my games and see who post what and I can be updated faster and respond quicker.

^all the questions.


and then this post:

@adam, I appreciate that. =)

and I agree with adam, I did not feel like Mala was being sarcastic towards me in voting me for not confirming when I should of. she felt like it was something scum would do possibly from her experience in playing the game. though,

I will say it was an innocent misunderstanding on her part

, because I know my reason for acting the way I did and stated it for y'all to see.

^my bold. it makes it seem that he knows malakitten is town. why would he be so sure that it is an innocent misunderstanding?


that's pretty much it, to be honest. that and thread avoidance. maybe he has been really busy though, i don't know. either way, those posts don't make me feel that great about him.

and then he claimed blacksmith.

[Mantisdreamz]

either way, I was thinking levi or guille. but thinking on it now, these 2 have been low posters and i doubt that both of the low posters are scum. that's way to easy to look at it that way. so i'd like to take back this comment.

Meaning what? What do you think about Guille and Levi?

i think they both seem scummy, but i'm hesitant in calling them both scum, because i don't really think scum would both be low posters.

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: Mantis
I think equating activity level to towniness is a cop out.

no it's not.

and plus, that's not really what i'm saying. i was saying that i don't think both scum players (say, guille and levi) would just say, hey let's just not post much.

i was saying that i think at least one scum would probably be relatively active. so no - i don't think that activity level equates to town, since i just said at least one scum would probably be active.

[Mantisdreamz]

i'm saying that both of them seem scummy to me. but i am probably wrong on maybe one. NO. I do not think that both SCUM WOULD NOT put effort.


or maybe even wrong on both. people can seem scummy and still be town, borkjerfkin.

[Mantisdreamz]

Furthermore, your attack on Guille in #484 seems to me like you're saying Guille is scum because he's pushing a case for a Mollie lynch. That's it. You're not commenting on the validity of the case or any opportunism with regard to the wagon hop, just the fact that he's making "long posts with links". How does that even remotely tell alignment?

i think pro hawk summed it up well in one post of his, where he said that sometimes scum will go to great lengths to build cases on a flaily looking town.

guille even went to the point of pointing out how mollie used the word "grooming"


mollie - you know Martin from tr? that is his scum tell. he focuses on one person, and finds a really good case on them because they contradicted themselves, at some point.

[Mantisdreamz]

adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.

@Mantis: So is that correct or is it you want to wait until later. I don't recall you commenting on this yet?

no, i don't think i have commented on it.

i'm not going to say much right now. But, i am second guessing (sorry mollie). Just reading through guille's posts - i like them.. they come across as calm and they're clear too.

speaking of, guille. guille you said:

And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.

no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc

note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.

hmmm. Your original statement had no dash. the original is ambiguous so I can understand any confusion.

yep, i realized my mistake in post 547.


anyway,
UNVOTE: guille

There are a few things that mollie said that i didn't like. the tanking thing and the scum perfume. those do stick out to me.

and mollie, i haven't heard you say those kinds of things before. they can be seen as excuses.


going to take a slow re read of maybe the last 8 pages or so. and maybe do a reset, since guille isn't seeming as scummy to me, as before.

[Mantisdreamz]

Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.

oh i tend to repeat myself, i become disillusioned into thinking that the more i say what i think to be true, the more it will come across as true!


anyway, what did you guys think of guille's latest posts?

[Mantisdreamz]

I am having personal issues in my life right now but I am going to fight to catch up -- it just might be a little slower than I would like.

hope everything is ok *hugs*

there's still plenty of time till deadline, so i wouldn't worry too much about not keeping up to date every day

[Mantisdreamz]

Calm... a little too calm if you ask me. He was up on the lynching block twice. Oh Guille, you have earned bonus points for making more than one post today, but you still failed to comment on your wagon which you promised to do.

true.


here's the vote count
Adam-12 (L-4): Malakittens
Pirate Mollie (L-3): Shrimp85, Guile
Guile (L-3): ProHawk, Pirate Mollie
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
borkjerfkin (L-4): Adam-12

Not Voting: leviathan93, mantis

[Mantisdreamz]

Even though I think Mantis is scum hunting I think she can benefit from your advice as well since I have encountered several posts now where she pretty much says the same thing.

What I meant here was that you seem to make statements that make a conclusion but don't give us insight as to why so we can properly gauge your perceptions.

I can see that. i tend to play a lot by gut feel.. which, of course doesn't always work. but sometimes does very well.
but can be more difficult to explain.

[Mantisdreamz]

i think that's why i was saying that mollie seemed very town. she appealed to emotion and the fact that there were inconsistencies seems more likely a town thing to do. i've seen town, quite a lot, just say things off the top of their head. and sometimes that involves discrepancies, which scum love to latch onto.

that's why i thought guille was scummy.

but, i am second guessing now, because like i said in post 634 (repeating yes), that there have been a few things that really could be seen as excuses on mollie's part.

[Mantisdreamz]

9. that is her own personal opinion or feeling. how can you disagree with this? are you saying shes lying? shes trying to be helpful and not necessarily accuse him since she points out that meta alone is not really all that valid. town points

i'm a she

[Mantisdreamz]

sorry mantis.

if it came across as curt, that's not how i was saying it. : )

[Mantisdreamz]

levi -what are your thoughts on shrimp?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Levi: I believe you are town.

agreed, after hearing his most recent posts

[Mantisdreamz]

lol just saw this in post edit:

That, but I think they were asking if scum were allowed to talk during the pre game confirmation stage.

Oh. Yes, they are/were.

based on this post. I also was thinking that the

those of us who are scum

knew that one could use the quicktopic chat thing before the game. this I would rule is their experience told them that. Shrimp guy and I are the ones I know that apparently did not know this was possible as shrimp guy did say that he didn't know. he could have been lying but all in all hawks post about him making a unintentional town tell seems to be understandable. therefore. I feel me, shrimp, adam, hawk. as town. mala could also be possible town and is leaning that way, but i'm worried about a wrong gut feeling with her. that leaves, mantis, possble scum, and guille as well with a possible borkkhfergnin or whatever his name is. but i think borkergin is town.

LOL.

VOTE: leviathan

i think he means those of us amongst us who are scum

[Mantisdreamz]

those amongst us who are scum

[Mantisdreamz]

adam, hawk boy, does that explain why mantis thinks that I am town? when you have played together that much you pretty much have a good grasp of their meta. while mantis and I both have the potential to sneak past each other as scum it is very rare that one of us will give the other a super strong town read and it not be correct.

@Mantis: So is that correct or is it you want to wait until later. I don't recall you commenting on this yet?

no, i don't think i have commented on it.

i'm not going to say much right now. But, i am second guessing (sorry mollie). Just reading through guille's posts - i like them.. they come across as calm and they're clear too.

speaking of, guille. guille you said:

And in one of your latest posts, you say " Adam, levi or guille should be lynched this day. "
I really don't agree. Adam-12 is seriously getting a town read from me, and Guille has done nothing else than make a case on those he finds suspicious.

no, i said: Adam - levi or guille should be..... etc

note the dash, i was speaking to him. but on second thought, i shouldn't be telling people who to lynch i guess. I have adam as town as well.

hmmm. Your original statement had no dash. the original is ambiguous so I can understand any confusion.

yep, i realized my mistake in post 547.


anyway,
UNVOTE: guille

There are a few things that mollie said that i didn't like. the tanking thing and the scum perfume. those do stick out to me.

and mollie, i haven't heard you say those kinds of things before. they can be seen as excuses.

going to take a slow re read of maybe the last 8 pages or so. and maybe do a reset, since guille isn't seeming as scummy to me, as before.

do a site search of my posts yes I have brought up tanking on this site before.

the scum cologne is something that I have noticed cos after a player comes off of a series of scum games they tend to post from a scum motivation i.e. obsessed about indies, special hunting, etc I am thinking of borealis that is why I track on her so hard.

also I am not going to go ballistic on you if you vote me I went ballistic on gib cos he should really know better and his vote started off as a drunk vote.

k. remember the post where you said that scum might boil down to levi and guille.

and then i agreed with you.. and shouted out to adam that he should vote one of those 2.

later on, i got to thinking that levi and guille were both somewhat inactive at that point, and i retracted my comment about both them being scum, since it seems as though at least one scum member would probably be putting in more effort. in other words, i got thinking that both were somewhat easy lynches.

do you agree with me on this?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mod: Please prod Mantis

no need for prod. i am here. i've been trying to keep up to date through my phone on breaks at work. i'll be able to catch up fully tonight, i think.

there was a post Adam that i know you asked me to answer a few times. will find it now...

[Mantisdreamz]

k, it was this one

i know that she hates being mislynched as town. so that could account for her response.

So she is lying about the oppressed-lylo-martyr-logic?

What about being mislynched as scum?

This question is real.

I'd like Mantis' input on this.

i don't know if i mentioned it earlier, but i have never seen mollie say that she was 'tanking' for town, before. actually yea, i did mention it i - i agreed that it looked like it could be an excuse.

the lylo martyr thing, i have seen her say that type of thing before, as town... being a distraction, etc. but just because i've seen her say that as town before, doesn't mean she is.

there have been quite a lot of things that have stood out. One simple thing at the beginning that i originally questioned but kind of ignored, was her statement at the beginning that she had Prohawk as town. also, mollie using prohawk's words that: 'scum usually try to blend and hide', against him. she said that well, since i'm not blending and hiding and you think me to be scum, you're contradicting yourself.

...or something of that nature.

anyway, even if mollie is town, maybe she should be lynched because she's drawn so much attention, that being around at endgame is probably not a good thing to have.

[Mantisdreamz]

also, shrimp i'm not following mollie around like a puppy. i got over enthusiastic in thinking she was town. i dislike that statement of yours.

[Mantisdreamz]

also

I feel bad that I have to take a stand on this but, now that the Mod has weighed in, I think discussion on the topic of cheating in the way that has already been addressed should never appear in this thread again.

I don't want to see even a defense offered by the accused parties. Instead just +1 this post if you would.

This post brought to you by the Anti-Flamewar Society: "Bringing a more peaceful Mafia game to you today!"

+1

[Mantisdreamz]

The sites that I play on we do not even have an rvs stage most of us will just jump right in and get our hands dirty.

@Mantis: Is the statement from Mollie correct here or is it only true that some games don't use RVS; in other words is this a relative truth (some games) or an absolute truth (all off-site games)?

this is a tr statement.

the closest thing, is that sometimes for the few few pages, everyone is fluff posting and joking around with each other.

also, there will be random votes, as in someone comes into the thread with a policy vote on another, or something like that. but that kind of thing generally sparks up discussion right away.

[Mantisdreamz]

sorry my keyboard is messed up. the first sentence is supposed to say: that is a true statement. I guess it kind of works because the forum we are referring to is called 'tr'

[Mantisdreamz]

I think this should work now Mala.

Oh please murder me now, I left off on Page 18/31. I blame Adam!

Adam's post

My case on Mollie boils down to:

1) Her RVS scum-aware vote for Shrimp
2) Her obsession with being lynched & declaring she is not scum
3) Her directing of the Tracker/Watcher
4) Cog-dis & AtE in her defense when wagoned
5) Her anti-town attitude when wagoned

Feel free to inquire about any point.

1) Link me to this post and explain why it's a scum-aware vote.
2) Okay, the only probable thing I see here could be that she's saying lynch me for "town cred" and I agree declaring that you aren't scum can be a scum tell, but that's grasping at straws.
3) I agree with this being a possible scum tell. I hate when people direct Night Actions, but the last few times I have seen someone do it they were town. So conflicted here.
4) AtE is not a scum tell.
5) What anti-town attitude?..

PM & Mantiz: Why is Guille "scum" for Post 438

This post
Why would you lynch make him look bad? Why do you even care what it makes him look like? I don't want this for my team - make it seems like you KNOW his alignment.

I do not like this post, do not like it one bit. Buddying here needs to stop!

Uh
@Borky: Where's your read on Mala and Mantis?

This smells of town
Only problem is that they can fake these special tells, but also change them up. Meta isn't always as reliable as it's made out to be. I just found that out the hard way.

HAI TOWN FEEL
I agree that town tend to be more paranoid in general, but scum tend to be a lot calmer.
There's a few town tells I been getting from Adam which hopefully by finishing reading the clusterfuck of pages I'll be able to describe.

@Mantis

Why should Adam be lynched today?
Oh I misread as it as Shrimp did, neverminddd.

Stop Buddying.

Something commonly done by town

NOT READING THE THREAD DOESN'T MEAN SOMEONE IS SCUM. THIS HAPPENS TO BE DONE BY BOTH ALIGNMENTS, SO IT'S A NULL TELL.

@Mantis: I don't think that is a big scumslip. I mean I can see how it can be considered one, but I wouldn't really take much thought into it as of yet

OKAY, PM is town
METaaaatttackkk.
Oh, but for the sake of conversation. Stop, Drop

& roll

the freaking JMT's. You make me want to twitch when I see them.

No
I have seen town more times out of ten meta someone rather than scum.

Well
Least this time you included both Mantis and Mala, but those reads are so icky, it's not even funny.

Right
I commonly see town tank more rather than scum. Scum like to give up a fight unless they are the last one standing and then they'll just give up.

Bad Levi
Stop being a kissup to Bork, please, kthanks?

@Levi
You already know how I felt about your claim. You didn't help the town out by claiming early instead you fucked us over. If this was just plain vanilla game then I can be like whatever, but the fact IS we do have PR's in this game. You narrowed the field for them having to search for the PR's. So please tell me why you deserved to be Night Killed over any other player here?

Again
Normally done by town.

Awesome
Why did you just take my post before that seriously? I almost think you were willing to sway your read if I said yes.

@Guille
What Mollie was looking at regarding Levi.
I had a reason.
So basically you want me to see if she OMGUS-ed as town or scum. Okay I'll double check that after. I wasn't exactly sure what you wanted out of that.
I removed my vote, but I forgot exactly why I had it. Was something he was doing. >.>

@Bork:
Yeah, I did not have a town read. He was leaning null.

Loved the beginning of this post of Shrimps, but hated the end

Hey Pro, why did you poke at me for saying the same thing as Levi, but didn't say the same thing to Levi in his post #708.

My town mindset. (:

I'm so glad you are trying to direct attention for me for lurking when I feel that you are constantly jumping into arguments and then laying back as they take off into fireworks.

I LOL'd so hard
Bit of a filler post as you just literally agreed yet went wish-washy afterwards.


I tend to get twitchy and paranoid and panicky as town rather than scum.

I'm going to do a pretty list of anything that gives me a gut "town" read of Adam.
Uno
Dos
Tres

&&&&TLDR&&& (Or something to that nature)

I'm getting twitchy posts from Levi lately. He's no longer much of a town read as it was before the game started. Weak scum read.
I'm going to watch ProHawk, I don't trust him. Leaning scum.
Adam has become a town read.
PM a town read.
Bork is a mild-town read.
Not really sure what to make of Guille.
Mantis is a weak town read. I want to watch for caution though.
Shrimp is town.

@Jiffy:

[Mantisdreamz]

PM & Mantiz: Why is Guille "scum" for Post 438

because at the time i thought mollie could be town, and that guille was going over and beyond to make a case on her.

I do not like this post, do not like it one bit. Buddying here needs to stop!

if mollie (at the time), or anyone for that matter looked town to me, what is wrong with buddying. i guess what i'm asking is what is wrong with buddying, in general?

fake edit - you being so adamant about that, makes me wonder if you know that guille is town?

@Mantis

Why should Adam be lynched today?
Oh I misread as it as Shrimp did, neverminddd.

if you kept reading to later discover that i didn't mean Adam should be lynched, why did you include this question, still?

@Mantis: I don't think that is a big scumslip. I mean I can see how it can be considered one, but I wouldn't really take much thought into it as of yet

no, Levi seems townish to me, now.

OKAY, PM is town
METaaaatttackkk.
Oh, but for the sake of conversation. Stop, Drop

& roll

the freaking JMT's. You make me want to twitch when I see them.

...does look kind of townish, that post. only thing, is that mollie said the conversation felt right at a time when her, adam and myself were discussing guille. but then she went to say i'm going to trust mantis's read on him.

if it felt right, mollie, why do you have to trust my read on him, and not your own?




you think it is Levi and Prohawk? i'll look at their posts again.

[Mantisdreamz]

anyway, even if mollie is town, maybe she should be lynched because she's drawn so much attention, that being around at endgame is probably not a good thing to have.

mantis voting me for any other reason than the last one is bullshit and you well know it. I used the term tanking in my newb on here; this seems to have a lot of online gamers on here and I was using language that they could identify with. you just said in a recent game that I am quieter as scum why are you backpedaling on this? and yeah, prohawk was contradicting himself and I was pointing that out how the flying fuck is that scummy? pointing out contradictions is scumhunting.[/quote]
i was kind of testing you in a way with that sentence.

yea you generally are quieter as scum, but this game is a little different - with the length of the deadline. i don't think scum can really afford to be quiet.

it was a contradiction, but i think it was the potential to turn it around on him which you did. I know you could have been testing him as well.. or showing him a flaw in that logic he stated. but, i'll have to go back and check, but i think you might have called him scum simply because of that.

[Mantisdreamz]

fixed about quote

anyway, even if mollie is town, maybe she should be lynched because she's drawn so much attention, that being around at endgame is probably not a good thing to have.

mantis voting me for any other reason than the last one is bullshit and you well know it. I used the term tanking in my newb on here; this seems to have a lot of online gamers on here and I was using language that they could identify with. you just said in a recent game that I am quieter as scum why are you backpedaling on this? and yeah, prohawk was contradicting himself and I was pointing that out how the flying fuck is that scummy? pointing out contradictions is scumhunting.

i was kind of testing you in a way with that sentence.

yea you generally are quieter as scum, but this game is a little different - with the length of the deadline. i don't think scum can really afford to be quiet.

it was a contradiction, but i think it was the potential to turn it around on him which you did. I know you could have been testing him as well.. or showing him a flaw in that logic he stated. but, i'll have to go back and check, but i think you might have called him scum simply because of that.

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, how sure are you that mala is town?

[Mantisdreamz]

mollie, how sure are you that mala is town?

oh I am definitely not anymore in fact she is probably scum who knows how I will flip but sees how retarded the bw on me is but knows she will get some good mileage out of fosing the people who are on it. if she is scum then that was an awesome gambit where she skipped the rvs stage I totally fell for it.

I don't know like I said the game is pretty much fucked for me.

:\

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-2): Shrimp85, Guile, Adam-12
Mantisdreamz(L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-3): Pirate Mollie, Malakittens
Malakittens (L-4): ProHawk

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Oh Mantis fixed my post, yay. Question is how? >.>

here's what you had before, for the links:
/url[/color]]This post
you didn't need the red text.


should be (without the asterisk at the closing url)
[url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4507856]This post[/url*]


it took only a few minutes to remove the extra /url's. now we can give majiffy crap for not doing it for you!


mollie - i'm sorry that you subbed out. that sucks.

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-1): Shrimp85, Guile, Adam-12, ProHawk
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-3): Pirate Mollie, Malakittens

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Greetings,

Anyone want to explain the case on me so I can make fun of it?

Hint: It's a Day 1 wagon and is probably incredibly silly - let's lynch one of the newbs who will probably be less helpful later. I'm in [ongoing] with Leviathan and suspect he'll meet the bill.

SO I'll even endorse my previous slot holder's vote - but I'll do it only for policy.

Levi looks ok in his recent posts. there was only one post where he said that mala looked like scum, and then said she was town in the same post:

mala's post:

Okay first off scum can use logic just as much as town.

It's not helpful. I can tell you right now it's not helpful. Take that one piece of advice from someone who has been playing mafia for years. It's one of the worst things you can do in a role game. People can believe you, but you don't understand how it hurt more than it helped. No, it gives scum more to go off of not town which is why it's not helpful. The more I'm reading your posts I'm Thinking scum slips. I love how you are so confident that you'll get NK just because you claimed.

Do you think I'm scum?

levi's response:

yes, thats why i said they would use logic to try to throw others off their trail.

but they have to be good with that logic or they will make a scumslip. and ok ok, i get it. you are making your point. you don't believe in claiming. well, I'm trying something here thats my own little strategy of sorts and so I want to really see what will happen and how it will go. if you by i don't understand how much it can hurt you mean making it easier for the scum to target the pr's then i get it. and ok, you get slips? i don't understand how. but ok then. and i'm not so much as confident that I will get night killed as in that i'm more confident that if that doesn't happen then i feel you guys will decide to lynch me in oncoming days.

and honestly, no i don't think you're scum.

I think you have been very helpful in this game. this could be that you can easily deceive me, me being new and all, but i personally believe this time i'm not wrong about someone. i believe you and adam to be the biggest town reads I have at the moment. prohawk coming in third, but still little iffy on that.

.. but it doesn't really seem like a scum error to me

[Mantisdreamz]

oh wait a sec. i think i read that wrong.

[Mantisdreamz]

1) Link me to this post and explain why it's a scum-aware vote.

Link

just to be clear, i didn't say this. you are responding to mala

[Mantisdreamz]

@Jiffy, VC is wrong.
Thor is at L-1. Pro voted Mollie instead of me.

mala, i had a few questions for you, you haven't answered them.

Vote Count

Thor665 (L-1): Shrimp85, Guile, Adam-12, ProHawk

Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-3): Pirate Mollie, Malakittens

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz,

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

For anyone who cares to hammer, I am good with ending the day now. We have plenty to work with in terms of evidence for D-2 after the flip.

hammer mollie/thor?

may as well let Thor speak a little, don't you think?

[Mantisdreamz]

2) To me being buddy/buddy can hurt town unless you are 100% sure of someone's alignment. To me it's not a good thing to do.
No, I'm not being adamant. I was in two different games where I saw scum use budding to their manipulation. One game used it in LyLo for the win because the other townie was so into a focus of buddying that the second townie couldn't convince them to knock it off and see the fact the other person is probably scum.

i don't know about 100%. you can't really be at that point? but you can have a relatively good sense, and work off that. how come you didn't give me crap for buddying to Adam? i have said more than several times i think he is town.

So long term effect that's it can hurt.

i can see, from your example. But, it helps town more to search out for who they think is town and buddy with them.. kind of.

3) Were my thoughts. I didn't want to remove it. >.>

that is fair.

4) How so?

he isn't seeming to be manipulative to me, but comes across as genuine. Your vote on him makes me wonder about you.

5) I still think it can be Levi/Prohawk, yes.

not sure what to say on this yet. especially about prohawk. He has seemed very calm throughout the game, has done quite a few vote switches, and for a moment i thought he and yourself could be scum. i'm neither reading him as scummy or overly townish. I would say he seems a stable and weak town read, to me.

[Mantisdreamz]

Mollie's bad play aside, I think she did drop significant scum tells that should be examined and addressed by Thor so we can examine the full case and his defense.

problem is, Thor can't really address the scummy tells that molie dropped.

[Mantisdreamz]

Adam, it doesn't matter. He isn't going to argue that his slot is scum and he didn't make the slips so he isn't responsible for them.

that would be fair for him to argue that point.

[Mantisdreamz]

I just finished Mala's wall and I would like to state for the record that I don't like how all that brought her to vote for Levi who is nothing more than a policy lynch; I think we will do better by lynching scum.

I wasn't so certain about her wall of text either. it seemed as though there were quite a lot of random quotes and responses to people. Some of her responses were slightly negative or slightly positive. by the end i was surprised to see where she slotted everyone, because it seemed like she could have easily put everyone as null. <-that's a bit of an exaggeration, (because she did have you, Adam as leaning town and Levi as leaning scum with the posts) but for everyone else she linked that was the sense i got.

[Mantisdreamz]

Levi is not a policy lynch. Levi is

possibly

scum because of the anti-town things that he has done.

-he claimed blacksmith
-he made a list of reads where everyone was 'innocent' with a few as 'innocentish'
-he asked what appeared to be a large amount of questions in his beginning post
-he pointed out that you were making an innocent mistake when you voted him at the beginning for thinking that he was trying to prolong the confirmation stage (the pointing out you were innocent for that, is hat caught my attention)

^mala, i think you said the last 2 weren't really tells.

but the first 2 things, don't really seem that scummy to me. they could be noob town. putting everyone down as innocent? seems better than putting everyone as scum.

just looking at your conversation here on page 32, posts 792-797. Levi appears genuine. he realizes that he made a mistake in claiming at the beginning. but it looks like you are just trying to push his lynch for it.

Levi ends off the convo as

you're really confusing me here. =/ i have called you town all game minus one or two posts claiming that either you are really good at fooling me or you are town like I feel you are. labeling things in a scum mindset? what does that mean? that I am cautious and trying to think things through and trying to think how scum would act so we can best monitor their movements and see who they are? thats like total pro town behavior or maybe i'm just stupid. how do i clearly label you as scum? FOR THE LAST TIME I DO NOT THINK YOU"RE SCUM!

[Mantisdreamz]

The choice today is me or Thor. Lynch me right now if you seriously want to let Thor start fresh. I refuse to sit here and watch him de-scum a scum slot. The thing that pisses me off the most is seeing Pirate Mollie in the thread watching this all go down and laugh at the irony of it all.

i think it just shows everyone who is viewing the forum, not necessarily this thread.

[Mantisdreamz]

No, I'm not really seeing the benefit of him helping the town by it. I see scum motivation in it going for reactions to what people saying regarding it.

I agree that it doesn't help. just not sure if there is really scum motivation behind it..

[Mantisdreamz]

I'm saying let the slot defend itself against all data -- that is the only pro-town thing left to do and let everyone decide whether to lynch Mollie or not. Its not as if we had an intent to hammer anyway and therefore a case is still left to be made.

true. and being that subbing out is a neutral tell, it's interesting how all of a sudden 'she should be hammered now'

[Mantisdreamz]

yea you generally are quieter as scum, but this game is a little different - with the length of the deadline. i don't think scum can really afford to be quiet.

Your post reminds me about the fact that Mollie had no case and no definitive scum list after 30 pages of content. Is that actually normal for her as town?

Come to think of it, I don't think you do either...

I think her not having a list right now is kind of a null tell. i've seen her do lists both as town and scum.

and no, i don't really have a full list, at this moment. this game has been all over the place for me. but for the sake of laying out my reads i'll put one together after i catch up on the last page and a half here or so.

[Mantisdreamz]

Really? Are you saying scum won't deliabelty want to fish out reactions for finding PRs.

he's pretty new to the game. Do you think that really was his intention? i'm not sure, i find that difficult to believe. also, it didn't look like a planned thing to say on his part, just kinda came out. (that's how it appeared)

[Mantisdreamz]

Mollie's bad play aside, I think she did drop significant scum tells that should be examined and addressed by Thor so we can examine the full case and his defense.

problem is, Thor can't really address the scummy tells that molie dropped.

I can - I just have a limited scope to do so.

Thankfully, most of them aren't even scumtells, so mostly I jst have to try to explain how things that look townish are not scumtells. It is easier to do.

Want to vote ProHawk? What's your read on him?

not too sure. I went from thinking mollie was scummy at the beginning, then to she's TOWN!, then back to doubting. prohawk has been sort of an enigma for me, but i'm not ready to lynch him right now.

[Mantisdreamz]

thor - what is your overall impression of malakittens?

[Mantisdreamz]

My scum reads are basically Mollie > Mantis.

You are saying they are both scum together?

Hard to say really. The way they act has me thinking that they are not both scum together. I figure that at least one of them is scum. Rare chance of them both being scum.

why did you figure at least one of us had to be?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: What's your opinion of Mollie replacing out and how does it compares to her meta?

honestly think that she wouldn't do that as scum. but i'm not going to be pushing that line of thought. I said above in response to an Adam post that it should be seen as a null thing.

[Mantisdreamz]

I am not going to sit here and make this an arguing fest especially when we are already 40 pages in on Day 1 because everything I say you have some sort of sarcasm, rebuttal, or contradiction to. I have made my case, you can continue to throw out your manipulators. Everyone else can make their own choice.

what if both you and him are town? Say if he is town, and you are, maybe you just don't like him because he's going after you.

What about looking outside of the both of you for a moment?

Vote Count

Thor665 (L-2): Shrimp85, Adam-12, ProHawk
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-4): Malakittens
ProHawk (L-4): Thor665

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz, Guile

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Prohawk - are you still very certain that Shrimp is obvious town?

[Mantisdreamz]

and no, i don't really have a full list, at this moment. this game has been all over the place for me. but for the sake of laying out my reads i'll put one together after i catch up on the last page and a half here or so.

as promised. here's where my head is at right now... this could be long.

town

adam - i can't really say specifically, but i think everyone would agree here
levi - i find his posts genuine. his reaction to mala seems genuine + slightly baffled & frustrated. also the way he reacted to hawk earlier.

unsure but leaning town

guille - i like his posts (now). guess this is kind of a gut read for me.

unsure

shrimp - his posts are reactionary. had him as town initially, but the read is starting to fade, partially because he hasn't been around much lately.

scum in here (i think)

mollie-thor
bork
prohawk
malakittens

^out of this list, there are combinations of pairings, that i just can't really see...

(Adam i know you mentioned that looking at it this way is no good). But, i find it helps me to make more sense of things. And it's by no means static, but it's what i'm thinking at this point in the game.

not scum partners

prohawk & mollie-thor - recent happenings between the 2
guille & mollie-thor - guille presented a huge case on mollie who is now thor
shrimp & mollie-thor - shrimp thinks that mollie-thor was cheating. he wouldn't say this about his scum partner
levi & mollie-thor - mollie votes levi for 'scum slip' and persists on it for awhile
mala & levi - mala going after him, can't see her doing that if both are scum, with all the other options
prohawk & shimp - prohawk has him as obv-town, don't think he'd speak that way of teammate
prohawk & mala - mala states suspicions of prohawk. prohawk states his suspicions of her (post 865)

(at this point i'm just going to start referring to mollie-thor, as thor now)

thor potential teammates
-bork
-mala


bork potential teammates
-thor
-prohawk
-mala


prohawk potential teammates
-bork


mala potential teammates
-thor
-bork


One thing that is standing out to me quite a lot is mala's vote on levi, and her case for him, mostly because i think levi is town. also, prohawk made a post (865), and i thought he raised some good points there.

she is my top scum read, at the moment.


with thor, i find that there's a huge question mark above his head for me. mollie had kind of dug herself into a hole, and she subbed out. i know i said i wouldn't mention this, but it's not like her at all to shift the responsibility to someone else, if she were scum. and even though it shouldn't really be an alignment changing factor, it's still something that i can't help but toss around in my mind.

on the other hand, i don't like mollie's vote on levi either, for what looked like a scum slip. and the other things that have been mentioned.


either way, i can see malakittens & thor, or malakittens & bork

so,
VOTE: malakittens

[Mantisdreamz]

or bork & thor

[Mantisdreamz]

i could be missing quite a lot too, in regards to interactions between everyone. i'm going off the top of my head.. so keep this in mind.

[Mantisdreamz]

if you unvoted Levi, who would you vote for after mala? do you think prohawk's recent posts to thor make him seem more scummy to you, or less?

[Mantisdreamz]

prohawk, you have a bit of an aversion to staying on malakitten, as well.

[Mantisdreamz]

I don't know where it would land him, but probably it wouldn't. I want to see his freaking answer first. Calm the hell down. I'm voting the person I want to vote as of right now.

why did you tell him to calm down? he didn't look too flustered.

[Mantisdreamz]

i might just make you more annoyed, but i have to ask - what does my question of prohawk have anything to do with guille coming back. i was wondering if your thoughts on prohawk changed at all after his interactions with thor. if they changed to make him seem more scummy? or just stayed the same?

[Mantisdreamz]

With all the screaming about "replacing is null tell!" I think you are right in using it in analysis,

based on evidence exhibited by the player in the game or even other games

. Just reciting a mantra "replacing in a null tell!" is a cop-out in the face of evidence to the contrary. However, your post about her meta does get me to see something that I failed to consider before:

What if Mollie actually replaced as town in fulfillment of her claims as a lylo-martyr

. In other words, what if her statement, "I am smurfed in this game" really wasn't a personal whine of being oppressed indicating a lie about being a lylo-martyr but instead meant, "My image is irreparable" which would support your meta?

i think that her saying she is smurfed this game is pretty much the same thing as saying that 'my image is irreparable'. so yeah, i don't think when she said she was f*cked this game, that it was a scum confession or anything like that. if she was caught out as scum and felt that there was no way of getting out of it, she'd probably just start trolling everyone for laughs (have seen it before).


on a separate note, and it could very well be paranoia, but i can't shake the feeling the conversation between prohawk and mala (posts 1014-1019) could be scum theatre. can you tell me what your thoughts on that are?

here's the thing, they have both fos'ed each other, and have voted each other, but their votes have not stuck.

on another note, say if mollie was town, i can imagine scum being pretty pissed off about her subbing out. because she seemed like a pretty certain lynch, and the subbing out thing, just really throws everyone off.. with giving the sub leeway, etc.

prohawk seemed pretty pissed off at it. and i'm wondering if it has anything to do with that.

i am mainly just speaking out loud right now, and i realize (like i said) that this could just be paranoia speaking, or seeing things that aren't true. but, i figured i'd voice them anyway.

[Mantisdreamz]

Well I wrote "I'm fairly convinced he's scum" means that none of his posts have made my read less than what it was.

i apologize ahead of time mala, if you are actually town. i am interested in hearing your thoughts after guille posts, though. i'm interested in what he has to say as well.

[Mantisdreamz]

I think Thor & Mantis are correct in that Mollie's replace could of been town motivated and I believe this is possible even in the face of her "My game is smurfed" comment.

but if you think that thor is scum, how can you believe him when he says that mollie replacing could be town motivated?

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis: But for you its the opposite huh? You are feeling its a stretch that she would of said it from the scum perspective?

yea kinda..

Saying this game is 'f*cked' could be the realization that there's so much wifom around her at this point, that it's not very hopeful to change town's minds. if she was town, maybe thinking that giving someone else the opportunity to make her position clearer, or show that it is a town slot. i don't know.

i'm a bit torn on whether thor should just be the lynch in order to clear things up. i do think malakitten is scummy though....

and she did stay away from all the mollie stuff, (as well as bork), when in the meantime everyone was calling her scummy, and/or going back and forth with her

(me).


mollie said

mollie, how sure are you that mala is town?

oh I am definitely not anymore in fact she is probably scum who knows how I will flip but sees how retarded the bw on me is but knows she will get some good mileage out of fosing the people who are on it. if she is scum then that was an awesome gambit where she skipped the rvs stage I totally fell for it. I don't know like I said the game is pretty much fucked for me.

i find the part i bolded, strange.

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe borkjerfkin should be lynched.

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe borkjerfkin should be lynched.

I found this humorous. just saying. =P i have nothing of any worth to add to this, but it settles the dispute between adam and thor right now. =)

if he turned up scum, yes it would! ...maybe.

[Mantisdreamz]

maybe borkjerfkin should be lynched.

Why can't I get your vote on ProHawk?

because his stubbornness doesn't seem all that scummy.

i'm waiting on malakittens, and her referencing of scum guille. and also what she has to say in response to guille.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4526264
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4526178

[Mantisdreamz]

1) Mantis never once stated that Mollie gets flustered while playing
2a) From her description of herself and opening in this game I would not expect her to be a player that gets flustered
2b) I do think that she did exhibit behavior along the lines of nervous/manipulative scum from the very beginning of this game
3) I would like to see Mantis weigh in on this

she actually does get flustered as town too.

this is why i'm torn about this, and it's not looking as clear cut to me that she's scum.

i kind of like levi's vote on shrimp right now, actually. and think that shrimp could be a possibility. i just saw that he came in and asked who thor was subbing for. that seems like maybe he's overdoing it. why not just flip back several pages to see what's going on... kind of seems like a possible clueless act. anyway, not that certain about it, but it stuck out to me.

[Mantisdreamz]

Why's Mantis town, everyone who thinks she is? I haven't seen decent reasoning for her reads, just a lot of inquisitive nudges on people without a whole lot of conclusions. Her scumlist in 1005 reads like connections mean that scum would never buddy or bus, which just really looks like someone who's fabricating anti-connections by looking to see who's had any sort of reaction with anybody and ruling those teams out.

I know that scum buddy and bus. but it was a sort of rough thing to go off of at the moment. i'm not as certain that scum would bus on day 1 (where there is only 2 of them), which is what made me make those loose conclusions.

[Mantisdreamz]

@Mantis - you should vote Mala or Shrimp.

i'm voting mala at the moment, but i think i could go to shrimp.

[Mantisdreamz]

UNVOTE: malakitten
VOTE: shrimp

Adam and Mala, what are your thoughts on him?

[Mantisdreamz]

all he really said though was that he thought Adam was fishing for PR's. and that mollie soft claimed one.

[Mantisdreamz]

all he really said though was that he thought

Adam

Prohawk was fishing for PR's. and that mollie soft claimed one.

^just realized my mistake in that.


Prohawk - post 68, was kind of obvious that you were being tongue in cheek-like. Shrimp could have been exaggerating your intentions to make you look bad.

Your role should say either Tracker-Immune or Watcher-Immune. That's probably why you don't see anything about blacksmith bizness. Which one is it by the way?

By the way, I just realized this while skimming through ISO's...
Pirate mollie, did you seriously just claim to be a PR? post 66.
NEVER, I mean, NEVER do that...
And WTF Prohawk, I can't believe you just posted that. Post 68

You are seriously asking her to give her PR role out?

[Mantisdreamz]

Personally, I think these day phases are way too long. This game will be massive before we are done.

agree. Sometimes its seems like the length of time means we can wifom ourselves to death.

really thinking malakittens looks more townish now. i also like how she hasn't changed her thoughts on mollie-thor slot being town.

shrimp and bork are standing out to me. i read (briefly, sine i was tired) his case on me last night, and the word 'bs' came to mind. i'll address it in a bit.


adam question for you. when you first read prohawk's 68, what was your interpretation of it?

[Mantisdreamz]

This game is this bad.

don't sub out, it will get better (hopefully). day 1 has been kind of a mess

[Mantisdreamz]

adam question for you. when you first read prohawk's 68, what was your interpretation of it?

I read it correctly that he was calling Mollie scum in a very forceful way. I liked it because the way he phrased it tends to get reactions. I also understood why he was making the push and I liked that he was doing it because I preferred to push Shrimp.

when pro hawk pointed out that series of posts, it occurred to me that shrimp looked like he could be over reacting: "OMG, i can't believe you said that!"

..when it was obvious that he was poking at her, and obvious that he was referring to the scum PR's.

i think he should be considered.
i'm going to ISO his posts, so i can get a better picture and not just focus on this one thing.

Vote Count
Thor665 (L-3): Shrimp85, Adam-12
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
ProHawk (L-4): Malakittens
Malakittens (L-3): Thor665, ProHawk
Shrimp85 (L-4): Mantisdreamz

Not Voting: Leviathan93, Guile

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Mantisdreamz]

Holy crap. Do you see what a mental double take you have to do to even have him faking this? Its like its impossible he could fake something this bad.

not sure.

i did a bit of an ISO on him... and i don't know if it's just because i'm tunneled on him, but he looks like scum to me.

i'll post my notes... (i got lazy after reading so many of his posts).. so it's not complete.

Adam, do you remember how you were on him at the beginning? you said that he looked like he didn't believe what he was saying.

[Mantisdreamz]

25 & 28- votes mollie for jumping on an rvs vote
29- says he thought mala was being sarcastic about her vote on levi. says his vote on mollie is as serious as it needs to be.

39
says that it was a ridiculous reason on mala's part to vote levi. also states that his vote on mollie turned to serious.

also asks mod to explain the scum QT

it was unclear from the beginning if his vote was actually serious or not. why state the reasoning that it was because she jumped on an rvs wagon?

40 & 41- fixes typos. remarks on mollie's vote on him.

117
-baffled that we are all so confident on lynching levi. says that levi not checking is not a scum tell.

(at this point, levi had no votes on him anymore)

-seems to be dodging questions a bit
-end of posts he points out what DOES appear to be a scum tell on levi's part (the blacksmith stuff levi brought up)

also says:

We have all day, don't try to quick lynch,

it would be a waste of all the precious time

town could use for their benefit

.

^my bold. when i first read that it stuck out to me, and asked him about it.

later on prohawk asked him about the part in large font.

shrimp responds in post 144, that he phrases things differently, and that it's not a scum slip.

-shrimp then asks prohawk for his reads, and says something to the extent that he should not be focusing on what is not a scum slip.

122
- announces that mantis is the only one who gets what he means. (i thought i did at the time, to be fair)
-calls quite a few of adam's posts filler (again to be fair, i caled adam out on this on a post or 2)
-shifts attention to levi about the 'blacksmith' ordeal. FOS's levi for this.
-ends the post with an adam vote.

137
-thinks adam is portraying him as scum.

(what happened was adam asked shrimp how long he has been playing mafia before, shrimp responds: see under my pic) but then he admits that he is not a complete noob. the whole thing was kind of wishy washy on his part. why not just state right out that you have experience from other forums?

-asks adam why he has levi as town, now.
-says mollie's vote on mantis is OMGUS
-asks why mollie has "teh prohawk as town"

142
-says levi's question can be seen as true town or noob scum

146
-wants to hear why mollie has prohawk as town.

(this is a good question, because mollie did call him town, without a reason)

-also asks mollie if she actually claimed to be a PR in post 66. reprimands her for doing, what he thought she did.
-also addresses prohawk's post 68.
-makes mention that if mollie is not lynched tonight due to her 'claim', then oh boy, she is scum for sure

problem is, if shrimp really thought that mollie claimed PR - why was he showcasing it for all scum to see?

163
-doesn't like mollie's omgus vote on me
-mentions mollie's PR claim again

233
-calls adam out for his votes (3 least active people - guille, codex, mantis)
-sticks up for guille a bit
-posts reads in order from most scummy to least scummy

248
-another question to mod

@MOD , How long does it take before a player gets prodded due to inactivity? , And how long before they get replaced?

344
-no team hunting (hunting scum in pairs)
-is not getting any town read from mollie whatsoever: "From the PR claim, to the constant OMGUS. And now her WIFOM's on how scum would act."
-votes mollie

again, if he is so concerned with her PR claim, why vote her?

this is where i start to get lazy and start to become cross-eyed in continuing to read all of shrimp's post.

354
363
413
467
497
etc


anyway, main concerns -
-he sticks up for levi at the beginning, then he goes to start focusing on levi's claim of 'blacksmith'. he mentions this quite a bit. (easy thing to focus on for scum, if levi is town)
-he goes after adam for some time, who is very probably town.
-seems to dodge questions at the beginning
-focuses a lot on mollie and her 'PR' claim.
-asks the mod a lot of questions (to the point where it's looking like just asking for the sake of asking and to make himself appear like he has no idea).
-had kind of disappeared after prohawk put him as for sure town.


i'll read the rest of his posts later, but wanted to at least put out some thoughts.

[Mantisdreamz]

Well, he is on track to be replaced next.

i seriously hope not.

[Mantisdreamz]

i would honestly vote for shrimp for this line:
"We have all day, don't try to quick lynch, it would be a waste of all the precious time town could use for their benefit."

not even because of the possibly scum slip where he refers to town as separate from him.
but because he actually says: "waste of all the

precious

time"

what an exaggeration.

[Mantisdreamz]

pirate mollie has been prodded?

[Mantisdreamz]

adam what if you considered for a moment that he is town?

i kind of agree with him that bork looks townish, to be honest.

i don't like bork's case against me, but his posts have all seemed pretty ok.

[Mantisdreamz]

i am ready to lynch malakittens

[Mantisdreamz]

also, welcome arc angel. I haven't been able to read all of your posts. but i did like that you had a summary of all the players. : )

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, yet you said I was looking townish posts earlier, but now you are willing to lynch me?
I don't even.

mala, i was reading one of your posts from another game last night. to be honest, i didn't read that many (i was on my way to sleep), but you were pretty thorough, and i hadn't seen the same type of style in this game.

i still am not that sure, but i am impatient.

if you don't mind, could you link a finished scum game and town game of yours?

[Mantisdreamz]

Well I would like to see more posting from Guille & of course we need to let Angel catch up.

I have serious problems with Mala's post-VLA play which tempts me to think differently about her pre-VLA play.

But I don't like how Thor "agreed" with me and just slid off his bad Hawk assault onto a populist lynch wagon. I think we are being played.

say if he (thor) did flip as town though, where would you go to next?

[Mantisdreamz]

Scum: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23706

Town: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=23533

thanks mala.

[Mantisdreamz]

Mantis, all I see are lies coming out of your mouth. How do you ever expect to lynch Mala when you aren't voting her!!

because i keep on going back and forth with her. She's done things things that i've liked, as well as somewhat questionable things.

i'm going to take a peak are some of her other games to get a better idea. i'm just headed out the door, but will do this later.

how sure are you that she is scum? on a scale of 1-10

[Mantisdreamz]

VOTE: Mantis

Look at 1270 compared to 1348. I think I posted once between those two posts and Mantis flip flopped on me in that time.

that is the result of me flip flopping (as i've said already before)

i went from thinking shrimp & you to maybe shrimp & mala. you'll note that's where i said 'i'd lynch malakittens.' in post 1349.

to be honest, i'm really not used to the length of these days. i'm used to 24 hour days, and even with those you tend to flip flop a little. multiple that by 20 and there's going to be a lot of back and forth.


i can say with confidence that i definitely don't want to lynch Adam or Levi, and probably Pro-Hawk.

i'm just reading over some ISO's right now...

[Mantisdreamz]

am back in town. I have a question for all.
so who do you all think is the most scummiest among? pls answer.

i thought shrimp was.

I can't really get over this post

By the way, I just realized this while skimming through ISO's...
Pirate mollie, did you seriously just claim to be a PR? post 66.

I just cannot understand his motive here. if i came across something that looked like a special or power role tell from someone, i would silently keep that to myself and back off of the person.

instead, he votes mollie. it just doesn't make sense.

but, if you are town, then i don't know, maybe it was just a mistake on his part.

[Mantisdreamz]

also, in answer to you, arc angel - mollie also did quite a few scummy things.
her subbing out at L-1 conflicts with my scum meta on her though.

which is why i'm so reluctant.

but there is also a part of me that just wants to say that maybe thor should be the lynch because of all the wifom surrounding him

[Mantisdreamz]

WIFOM surrounding a player is not a reason to lynch them unless its simply a policy lynch. In this case, the policy lynch would certainly be trumped by the skill of the player now in the slot.

It better to lynch scum than policy lynch over WIFOM.

ok, i'm kind of glad to hear you say that actually.

i was just going to post that i'm going over molie's ISO

i really like this post of hers:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p4506662

just so it's clear to everyone, i might just post random thoughts of mine. it might look as though i'm flip flopping. i'm mainly looking at the ISO's of mollie & thor, mala, bork, and guille

[Mantisdreamz]

As per Arc's request in her ISO I changed the OP to reflect replacements.

Thank you

Looks like everybody heading to vote Mantis.
Can someone tell how long we have before the day ends?

I want to see if Mantis want to defend herself if not, i lll vote her at the deadline.

I would ask that you please post your reads of at least your top 2-3 scum suspects and your overall take on the game so far?

^i am very interested in this as well, arc angel.

[Mantisdreamz]

going to add thor & mala to the not wanting to lynch today list.

[Mantisdreamz]

Well as for as Guille is concerned, I am terribly underwhelmed at his performance so close to the deadline.

i'm a little unsure of him. I don't know how much i liked that long case he had on mollie. He did mention something that i liked though, and that's that scum might not be willing to go after a townmollie.

which brings me to Bork. Bork has stayed away from voting or accusing mollie and now thor to a fair extent.

I also don't like Bork's case on me. A lot of the time he was focused on the fact that he did not like my answer to his question on why i switched my read on Levi. I responded that I wasn't too sure what made me switch (and tht's the honest truth). I think because mostly his posts come across as genuine to me.

Yes, i was uncertain at the beginning, when it looked like he could have been asking an overabundance of questions, in order to appear noob town. I also thought that he slipped up at the beginning when he called Mala's theory on the delayed-confirm, an 'innocent mistake'. I think he just really believes Mala to be innocent, and i like that he has kept up with that thought and not really wavered on it.

Another thing with Bork, is that he's been pointing out the fact that i change my mind a lot. The game is 20 days long, so of course i'm going to look and probably be all over the place.

He came in and wanting to lynch Pro Hawk. He went from that, to shortly after asking Pro Hawk who he should lynch.

...I'm thinking of most likely voting him today. Arc Angel does come across better than Shrimp (from what she has posted so far), but it still doesn't erase some of the concerns i have with Shrimp.


...as for Mala, there was a point where she legitimately looked like frustrated town. (throwing phone against wall, thanks to you, Adam & Pro Hawk)


also, I do want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and allow her to work on scum hunting after a few flips. (like she said)


(also could go for a Guille lynch too, but Bork feels more scummy to me).

I don't plan on changing my mind from these past few posts.

[Mantisdreamz]

Oh, and Mantis you are stalling.

how so?

[Mantisdreamz]

and plus, Pro Hawk, didn't you rate Mala as a 3 for being scum?

[Mantisdreamz]

Not really sure how to respond. What's the big deal if my reads change? I think it seems a bit more scummy to keep tunneling on one person, as a matter of fact.

[Mantisdreamz]

well.. it

can

be more scummy..

[Mantisdreamz]

Adam, are you still feeling that Shrimp was town, and that Arc Angel is?

apologies if you have said this somewhere recently, but i don't remember.