Open 465 - Wot's... Uh the Deal? (Game Over! Town Win!)

[Mantisdreamz]

Oh Mantis fixed my post, yay. Question is how? >.>

here's what you had before, for the links:
/url[/color]]This post
you didn't need the red text.


should be (without the asterisk at the closing url)
[url=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4507856]This post[/url*]


it took only a few minutes to remove the extra /url's. now we can give majiffy crap for not doing it for you!


mollie - i'm sorry that you subbed out. that sucks.

Vote Count

Pirate Mollie (L-1): Shrimp85, Guile, Adam-12, ProHawk
Mantisdreamz (L-4): borkjerfkin
Leviathan (L-3): Pirate Mollie, Malakittens

Not Voting: leviathan93, Mantisdreamz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, December 17, 2012 at 12:40 PM EST

[Thor665]

Greetings,

Anyone want to explain the case on me so I can make fun of it?

Hint: It's a Day 1 wagon and is probably incredibly silly - let's lynch one of the newbs who will probably be less helpful later. I'm in [ongoing] with Leviathan and suspect he'll meet the bill.

SO I'll even endorse my previous slot holder's vote - but I'll do it only for policy.

[Adam-12]

Greetings. May we post as normal or would you like reduced/non-posting?

[Thor665]

Since I'll refuse to read anything from before this page - you should probably post as normal.

Why do you think I should be lynched?
Also - your read on Leviathan?

[Majiffy]

now we can give majiffy crap for not doing it for you!

Don't make me threaten to do some awful thing I'll never do, damnit. I'll do it. The threatening, that is. Better watch out.

[ProHawk]

Mostly scum because she chose to replace out for being in a deep dark hole with no way of escaping. If you could care less to read anything, then I don't need to give you another wall.

[Adam-12]

Since I'll refuse to read anything from before this page - you should probably post as normal.

Why do you think I should be lynched?
Also - your read on Leviathan?

If you read my summary post you will find I hold him as policy lynch material.

But I would ask you, why are you worth policy lynching for since you won't even read the thread?

[Mantisdreamz]

Greetings,

Anyone want to explain the case on me so I can make fun of it?

Hint: It's a Day 1 wagon and is probably incredibly silly - let's lynch one of the newbs who will probably be less helpful later. I'm in [ongoing] with Leviathan and suspect he'll meet the bill.

SO I'll even endorse my previous slot holder's vote - but I'll do it only for policy.

Levi looks ok in his recent posts. there was only one post where he said that mala looked like scum, and then said she was town in the same post:

mala's post:

Okay first off scum can use logic just as much as town.

It's not helpful. I can tell you right now it's not helpful. Take that one piece of advice from someone who has been playing mafia for years. It's one of the worst things you can do in a role game. People can believe you, but you don't understand how it hurt more than it helped. No, it gives scum more to go off of not town which is why it's not helpful. The more I'm reading your posts I'm Thinking scum slips. I love how you are so confident that you'll get NK just because you claimed.

Do you think I'm scum?

levi's response:

yes, thats why i said they would use logic to try to throw others off their trail.

but they have to be good with that logic or they will make a scumslip. and ok ok, i get it. you are making your point. you don't believe in claiming. well, I'm trying something here thats my own little strategy of sorts and so I want to really see what will happen and how it will go. if you by i don't understand how much it can hurt you mean making it easier for the scum to target the pr's then i get it. and ok, you get slips? i don't understand how. but ok then. and i'm not so much as confident that I will get night killed as in that i'm more confident that if that doesn't happen then i feel you guys will decide to lynch me in oncoming days.

and honestly, no i don't think you're scum.

I think you have been very helpful in this game. this could be that you can easily deceive me, me being new and all, but i personally believe this time i'm not wrong about someone. i believe you and adam to be the biggest town reads I have at the moment. prohawk coming in third, but still little iffy on that.

.. but it doesn't really seem like a scum error to me

[ProHawk]

Adam - its not a policy lynch. Just look at why she replaced out and you can find the answer.

[Mantisdreamz]

oh wait a sec. i think i read that wrong.

[Thor665]

@Pro - that's obviously bull smurf - if she's scum there had to be a reason to vote her before she replaced out for being in a deep hole, that's an additional point to a case that should already exist. Also, I would submit the replace out attitude is as likely to come from town as from scum - either a person is cool with being lynched or would run from it, I don't know why scum would be more likely to do it. I guess you'll tell me?

@Adam - I am not worth policy lynching because I am sexy and have a beard (which is also sexy). But, here, I'll do a case for you;

Look at me.
Look at my avatar.
The avatar is sexy.
Now look at you.
Now back to me.
I have pretty pictures under my avatar - they advertise that I am popular enough that people think I'm better than average at the game.
Now loook at leviathan.
No pictures.
Now to you.
Now back to me.
I have scary quotes in my sig.

That work for you?
I still don't see a case on me...

[Adam-12]

You will read this thread or I will push for your lynch with Hawk -- and that's all I have to say.

No more BS from you.

[Thor665]

1. Start pushing.

2. What's the case on my slot?

[Thor665]

Heck, answering 2 will probably help you do 1 - I'm actually being helpful with play advice here.

[ProHawk]

Mala, your answers aren't equating, care to give it another round?

Also I promise to not use teal anymore if you promise to quote posts instead of link them. Which color would you prefer?

[Adam-12]

Mollie

-- Overall Mollie is the strongest scum read for me in this game. The town-like elements of her defense that I have found are few and are literally surrounded with cog-dis & AtE. Upon analyzing her defense in detail, I feel like I am being constantly manipulated and at first it really brought doubt to my mind because of Mollie's skill level. Ultimately, I think she fits the profile of opportunistic & manipulative scum that will use any means possible to survive, including preying on the weak & innocent. She says that her initial Levi suspicion was only a probe and that her interactions with Shrimp resulted in him being newb-town; this was in reference to suspicion from Mantis and I think she can add Shrimp to the list of "easy lynches". Her support of Mala's RVS vote for Levi was good and garnered an early town read from me. Her initial vote of Mantis just seemed out of place and weak for reasons of "not properly querying her" and "jumping to conclusions"; it just sounds kind of arbitrary and compared with Mantis' reasons for initially voting Mollie, its obvious who has the better reasoning here. I think Mollie was genuinely concerned about Mantis and that is the reason for the attack (remember back in RVS she was "Mantis get in here so I can get a read on you!"). I have already mentioned in detail all of her statements about knowing she is going to be lynched and repeatedly stating its good for town so I don't need to mention it here, because there is alot of it. She then switches her vote to Hawk with no explanation. In #247 she posts her last will and testament where she clears Mantis due to meta (invisible to us) & then directs the tracker/watcher & doesn't explain her Hawk vote but posits a Shrimp/Hawk scum team. She took exception to my read on her where if she is scum, she is calm and collected to the point of inserting a secret message into one of the quote posts about it. I will also not mention all of her repeated statements along the lines of "I am town" & "I am not scum" because there are very many of those as well. Again all of the self-meta that she does has been mentioned elsewhere. She seems to overreact to Guille's initial suspicion of her when he first expressed it as "gut" before he posted his case or if it was even certain that he would have a case on her and she calls it bad -- before there even is a case and yet she piles onto his initial argument that my questions were scum loaded. She posits more Shrimp suspicion would be good & Levi is prob scum for playing the newbie card. It is in post #355 that she claims that the "scum perfume" hasn't worn off from her last 3 scum games to explain why she looks scummy. I have explained elsewhere why this is so bad for a player of her experience but if she had simply admitted it as an off-the-cuff comment I might of believed her. But instead she repeatedly defends that statement even by bringing an example from another player who is from another site into it but never once does she say it is a behavior that she can ascribe to herself, in her defenses its always "a" player or players in general or this particular player that has scum perfume but never herself. This shows she really doesn't believe that it is a genuine reason for her scummy behavior and was using it as an excuse, especially in light of the fact that a player of her skill level wouldn't actually have this problem anyway. Then she goes over the top on Levi stating that people not wanting to lynch him are scummy. Her "blending in" argument about Hawk's logic was just bad, trying to use it to make him look bad, while trying to make herself look good. She posits a Hawk/Levi scum team. She went over the top about how I was supposedly treating her as town. She also says that scum fight for survival and tries to pass it off as if she is not trying to survive but her over-defensiveness, opportunistic voting & scummy manipulation show otherwise; this is additional evidence to show that she doesn't believe what she is saying. I understand her logic about suspicious players making it to lylo which is why as town pressuring players that are suspicious and voting them is a pro-town thing to do but I have never seen someone use this argument in their own defence for why they should be lynched; this is so over the top AtE and is a "too scummy to be scum" defense, which I personally detest. At this point she declares her scummy posts as deliberate and +town; I just can't buy that. Posits a bad case about Hawk apologizing, it was pretty clear he was being sarcastic. She votes Guille which is not bad at that time because he was hurting the game state. She asserts that Mantis' town read on herself is the fruit of 50+ games over a 2 year period which is the best evidence she is town; I think she delilberately tried to create this read from her and began manipulating Mantis from her first post in this game. She then says that Hawk's apology was scummy; again this is obviously not true as he clearly was being sarcastic. I didn't agree with her argument that Hawk was trying to line up lynches, it was pretty clear at least to me that he was trying to clear a town player if one (Mollie, Guille) flips scum. Her assertion about Hawks scum theory concerning "blending in" is cog-dis since Hawk suspects her was just bad. She incorrectly states that the RVS case against her is because she "sheeped Mala"; it is actually because she queried Mala, in a sense asking permission, before voting which showed an overly self-conscious mindset however her understanding of the RVS case indicates the understanding she would have if the RVS case is correct. She then votes Levi for "for those of us who are scum" which is pretty much unbelievable for a person of her skill level; I think everyone in the thread (except maybe Mala) saw that. Then Mantis questions her about Levi/Guille being easy lynches and Mollie goes into overdrive first selectively answering the question by not mentioning Levi at all (a true easy lynch) but also not even addressing the point about easy lynches at all which is scummy deflection. Mollie is a solid scum read for me.

Its contextual which means: YOU-NEED-TO-READ-THIS-THREAD

[Majiffy]

You know what else you need? Page breaks and a tab key.

Good thing I don't have to read that!

[Malakittens]

I'm pretty sure my answers were straightforward.

[Adam-12]

You know what else you need? Page breaks and a tab key.

Good thing I don't have to read that!

If he would red the thread, I think he will have a right to request that but until then I really don't care.

[Majiffy]

Meee-ow kitty's got claws.

[Malakittens]

@mala it wasn't being a kiss up. it was being truthful. borky made valid points. I agree with those points and thought they were logical.

I like logic and reason. especially in this game because why would scum want to use logic and reason other then to throw people off their trail.

the more logic someone uses the more it can be torn apart and figured out to see if it is true or not. I believe scum can be found that way.

and i know how you feel about my claim.

whether its helpful or not I want to find this out for myself. plus I also don't understand your fact that if I claimed why doesn't everyone believe me? huh? it could have been pointless and it just gives you a little bit to go off of.

i feel that I will either get killed during the night now or

kept alive to try to maybe throw you guys off the trail and lynch me yourselves while they kill y'all other innocents during the night.

"Can you take this lonely girl?
I pick her up from off the ground
'cause theres no pride, to be found
When you follow sheep around
And no future here, no future
For us in this town"

vote: Levi

Reason: inconsistent reads. Called me town in this post.
Yet the way I'm reading the end of this posthe has me clearly labeled in a scum mindset.

So:

Anti-town behavior. Claiming early. Helps scum out more than town.
Inconsistencies. (Oh man coming from me this is so

not

funny)
Labeling things in a scum mindset.

That's what did it regarding Levi, Mantis. I don't know why, but everything he said sounded like a scum slip towards the end.
The first part I feel as if he was saying that really only town could use logic and not scum. He then clarified it a post later, but I don't see how someone being logical will bring out a scum slip.

(Maybe I'm just horrible at finding these scum slips. I do can find odd and even things in conversations that make me go "wtf are you talking about" and then a flip appears and it all makes sense.)

[ProHawk]

Thor,

If you're implying that I hadn't voted her before she replaced out, your ignorance precludes you.

So you are going to argue that if you are town and are the one that looks the most like scum in the thread that you should go ahead and replace out? Here is why it is way more advantageous for scum to pull that stunt. More scum than town makes a scum death extremely more detrimental to their win condition. Therefore if Mollie, as scum, would be able to get a fresh body in her slot, then he/you would be offered a fresh start. You wouldn't have to answer for any of the scummy play of Mollie because you aren't her. It's the best she could do to help her team win.

What has Mollie pretty much thrown as AtE this whole game?

also

I do not mind getting lynched I have no ego invested in perfect score of not getting lynched cos I play to maximise the info for my team

regardless of my role not so that I can sit back on my laurels and say "oh I have only been lynched as town once" lol.

the game is pretty much fucked for me at this point and I would consider subbing out but it is 10 days until until the deadline.

These two posts are enough to lynch on regardless of the other points of scummy evidence she has provided us with thus far because it's obvious she

did

care about getting lynched or she wouldn't have replaced out.

[ProHawk]

I'm pretty sure my answers were straightforward.

Really? Because the way some of your answers stand you serve to be voted for the same reason you are voting Levi.

[Malakittens]

@Jiffy, VC is wrong.
Thor is at L-1. Pro voted Mollie instead of me.

[Mantisdreamz]

1) Link me to this post and explain why it's a scum-aware vote.

Link

just to be clear, i didn't say this. you are responding to mala