Jack of All Trades Mafia -- OVER!

[ibaesha]

vote: DrippingGoofball

[ibaesha]

I'm voting DGB because if she's town, she'll probably lie and do scummy/bad for the town things anyways. Figure if we lynch her we can avoid all that.

[ibaesha]

Truly, I think DGB's solution should be to play games and learn how to not jeopardize the town when she's town. Running away doesn't solve it.

Also, the statement that someone is bad town or scum isn't a new one. It's a perfectly viable D1 vote. Just as viable as voting for Pooky because he's so damn tricksy. I think someone voted for him already because "I've heard about you." which implies exactly that. I don't see people getting their panties in a tangle over that. I'm not sure why people are FoSing me over my voting for someone who I think may jeopardize the town later. But w/e.

Finally: DGB, don't take it personally, just stop jeopardizing the town and lying when you're town. And honestly no matter HOW you play, people will hold it against you in other games. Or hold you up to it. It's called metagaming. 90% of the people on mafiascum do it.

Seeing as how she's probably going to be replaced, however...

unvote; vote mariyta

I am getting an opportunistic vibe from her.

FoS: viper

I'm not going to put up with his bad town or scum behavior either.

[ibaesha]

unvote; vote mlaker

I'm not entirely opposed to the viper wagon, but mlaker's eyecatching post can't be dismissed. It looked to me like a fabricated reason to join a quickly growing bandwagon.

[ibaesha]

Bogre: I'd like to point out that FoSing me for the actions of the two people who voted for you after me is pretty nonsensical.

I haven't seen a reason to change my vote yet, but if I did, it'd be to Spamwise.

[ibaesha]

Viper because he's useless and Spamwise because of this post here:

I can dig a Max wagon, the Viper one has stalled anyway. Which could be an indication his scum buddies haven't hopped on, but meh.

unvote

Vote: Max

I found this suspicious. To me it looked like Spamwise was casting around to find an easy bandwagon to jump onto that might result in a lynch. Also, his statement that the viper wagon stalling was indicative of his scum buddies not hopping on is suspicious. It's pretty early in the game and I'm pretty sure plenty of people would love to throw viper under the bus if they were scum with him. It actually makes me wonder about a Spamwise/Viper connection.

[ibaesha]

I forgot to say earlier...

Fuldu, I'm far from the only person that hasn't backed up suspicions and votes. Your singling me out is suspicious in my opinion. Why is it not okay for me and okay for others? You will see that when I have something substantial to state that I work very hard at making it clear. I did not have anything substantial and as it was early in the game and I was working mostly off of vibes. I'm addressing this now mostly because I'm annoyed and need to make it clear that I do not attempt to 'cover all the bases without having to work too hard, ever'.

[ibaesha]

Not sure Bogre is scum.

Not really sure we could get to lynch anyone else at this point.

Not sure how a claim would help us, either.

*sigh*

Yeah. Otherwise I'd move to Spamwise.

[ibaesha]

unvote; vote spamwise

This game is dragging, if we're not lynching Bogre, I definately haven't seen any reason not to pressure spamwise.

[ibaesha]

Yeah, I would too but it's not happening. I'm not sure what else to do here. If Bogre was going to be lynched, it sure as hell hasn't happened. This game is making me sad (and bored). I really don't have much on anyone due to everyone (including me) waiting for Bogre to be lynched. It was mostly random, then a wagon on Bogre based on a valid suspicion. I'd really like to see the game move somewhere and with Yaw threatening a deadline, I'd rather either lynch Bogre or stir things up a bit and perhaps get some discussion going. After waiting for what seems like forever, I finally decided to stop waiting and do the latter. I'll be very happy to move my vote back to Bogre in the case that he gains another vote or two, but you have to admit Yos, we're not accomplishing anything at the moment.

Fuldu brought up a good point against Cesspit, and I had actually noticed it when it happened, but dismissed it for the BS that it was. I didn't think it implied he was scum, however, just stupid. (no offense)

[ibaesha]

Fair enough. I actually read it as him implicating me and MoS as well. That's what I meant by BS. Your point is still valid enough, I just wanted to be clear that I did catch it, but had dismissed it and why.

[ibaesha]

With the extended deadline, I'm happy to leave my vote on Spamwise for now.

Masterchief: Apology accepted and all, but are you going to catch up and actually post something of content? Thoughts maybe?

[ibaesha]

Bogre claimed vanilla townie at like 4 votes or something.

[ibaesha]

I'm up for that. I really doubt a major change before deadline.

unvote; vote Bogre

I think that puts him at lynch -1. Anyone got a hammah?

[ibaesha]

I got me a new office. Cool.

vote: MBL

No reason except that maybe if I vote him, he'll be more active then yesterday.

[ibaesha]

Bogre occupied Jack Gallagher's office. I imagine it was closed when he was lynched. Maybe it was redesigned overnight and reopened.

Just a theory.

[ibaesha]

ibaesha reassigned to Jack Johnson's office

kthx

[ibaesha]

Your guess is as good as mine.

[ibaesha]

I have no idea how lordy came up with this information or why he would broadcast anything about me or my office here. But it bothers me, a lot.

unvote; vote lordy

[ibaesha]

I suspect the moving of offices has to do with the moving of roles.

As such, if im correct, ibby is now a cute little townie.

Awwww.

I didn't claim you stupid arsefarcks. What I meant was that I messed up IN MY BRAIN who got whose office.

And since spam was acting scummy yesterday AND TODAY, I believe that ibby got a scummy role, based on office spectaculation.

Which is it? Hmm? This is absolutely ridiculous. First you claim to not only know my alignment but my role and post it for no reason whatsoever. Then, you turn around and vote me because I call bullshit about it. NOW, you're saying you messed it up in your head and I'm scum? Sooo... your speculation is that people's alignment can change too? And you think because you found Spamwise scummy yesterday, that I'm now scum because I'm in his old office.

My office is the only thing that has changed. My alignment has not. If there's a difference between my old office and my new office, I will not say at this time.

[ibaesha]

Kurtz, please try to use quote-tags when you're quoting people. It's difficult to read what you just posted.

[ibaesha]

unvote

vote MBL

Again. I want him talking.

Basically, I'm not impressed with how lordy has behaved today. It bothers me quite a bit, and his vote is very misplaced, especially when it's based on incorrect theory (as far as I'm concerned) and has nothing to do with my behavior. Fair warning, if someone attempts to out my role for no legitimate reason without provocation in any game, they will receive my vote. If it isn't scummy, it's bad play and it affects me directly.

At this point, I'm feeling that lordy has played badly here, but may not be scum. The speed of his wagon was incredibly fast, and may contain opportunistic scum.

[ibaesha]

In every other game I've played with Yosarian, I've tended to agree with his logic and can understand a lot of the things he does.

Hmm. I agree with his logic and understand what he's doing in this game. Is there anything you can point out specifically? I'm not seeing it.

[ibaesha]

Many things that I agree with.

unvote; vote bluemonick

I hope MBL stops lurkering soon.

[ibaesha]

My agreeing with Yosarian is because I have found him to make sense and his logic solid. Obviously this is consistent with my response to BMQ's assessment to the contrary and my vote for you. I'd also like to point out that I'm not following Yosarian as my votes have gone on people before his. He's not even voting for you now. If anything, I would be guilty of following Fuldu's lead here.

Lynching someone who has claimed vanilla townie on Day 1 is a relatively safe play for town to make. I attempted to stir up something else by voting for Spamwise (who I also found suspicious yesterday), but with a deadline approaching, the logical thing was to lynch Bogre.

[ibaesha]

Best case is always lynching scum. 2nd best case is lynching a vanilla townie. This isn't rocket science.

[ibaesha]

What questions have I dodged?

[ibaesha]

Scum wants to lynch anyone who isn't a part of their group. If anything, scum wants to lynch power roles more than vanilla townies if they can succeed. This is why lynching vanilla townies is BWCS (Best Worst Case Scenario) for town on Day 1 of most games.

You're attempting to insinuate that because I chose to lynch someone who claimed vanilla townie over no-lynching is scummy. It isn't. Also, why are you dismissing the other 12 people who assisted in Bogre's lynch?

[ibaesha]

Bluemonick: I'm curious. You weren't present for yesterday and your predecessor contributed basically zilch. What choice do you believe you would've made had you been in the game yesterday when we were nearing deadline?

[ibaesha]

Yes, this is why I'm attempting to be patient here. I'm getting a strong newbie-vibe from his questions. They're just ... kind of bone-headed. I'm not quite sure what he's trying to accomplish. However, even if it is newbie-ness, it doesn't dismiss him from being newbie-scum.

[ibaesha]

As usual Yosarian says things better than I can. Hmph.

I find it interesting that bluemonick accuses me of dodging questions, but rather than answering my question posed to him, he says 'Just lynch me already'.

[ibaesha]

All this says the lurker. Not impressed, MBL. You've hardly given your own thoughts today, yet you expect more from others. Heh.

[ibaesha]

Either way, I really don't think it was a pro-town move to blow up my office, and I'm very interested to find out who did it. Has anyone been moved into an office that gives you the blow-up office ability? If so, who had that office the night that the ability was used on me?

My guess is that ibby or Spamwise was the office destroyer, or that person got blocked last night. This makes me lean towards Spamwise, given his reactions regarding Bluemonick.

I think I can answer these. Sort of. Actually, I'm not sure that the offices stay the same. Here's why.

I miss my old office. There were guitars and surfboards and stuff. Anyway, I played pretty poorly yesterday, I'll try and lift my game today.

These items are not in my office. So either Spamwise was lying here or the offices change. Also, I have no ability to destroy offices. So if Spamwise was the office destroyer, I didn't get the same ability he had.

[ibaesha]

I miss my old office. There were guitars and surfboards and stuff. Anyway, I played pretty poorly yesterday, I'll try and lift my game today.

Please clarify if you were telling the truth or bsing here. Those items aren't in my office.

[ibaesha]

I'll be on vacation and very busy (getting my kids ready for the school year) until Sept 5th. I'll check in whenever I have time.

[ibaesha]

View all posts by Harry_Potter.

vote: Harry Potter

I believe there should be a wagon awaiting his response when he returns from vacation.

vote: Harry_Potter

I'd still like mathcam to answer my earlier question to Spamwise.

[ibaesha]

I'm back too. It's nice to see active replacements.

I agree that bluemonick's statement about being nabbed by his scumbuddy is something that shouldn't be ignored. The problem I'm having with it is that the first person that comes to mind for me is Fuldu, who has appeared fairly pro-town to me. He essentially was the one that called BS first and the wagon initially formed based on his argument, which I very much agreed with.

Others who look like possibilities are Masterchief (now InHim) and Yosarian. It's interesting that those two are now at each other's throats. MC based on the post where he made his vote. I know this is difficult to defend replacing in for inHim, but unfortunately actions of the predecessor don't just magically disappear. My thinking with Yosarian is more based on the fact that, his questioning did help lead to MC's breakdown, as he's said himself, regardless of if he actually voted or not. My problem with the Yosarian theory is that, like me, he was attacked by bluemonick with spurious reasoning.

I'm not quite sure why TSS made me the most likely candidate for being the scumbuddy since he didn't give any reasoning behind it. While I know that I am not who he (bluemonick) was referring to, I will say that bluemonick attacked me based on shoddy reasoning to which I responded. As I did so, he dug himself deeper. I don't consider that nabbing him.

There's been some comments about my interactions with Yosarian. Yes, we're getting along well in this game. On my part, I've felt that Yosarian's points have been sound and haven't found much that he's done to be suspicious. I also think some of this comes from Day 1 when Yosarian and I were both more active than most other people in the game.

I'm still suspicious of Harry Potter. He hasn't given me much reason to move my vote. I do realize a deadline is coming and will be willing to move my vote elsewhere if necessary before then.

[ibaesha]

I don't really know about BJ. To me he appears to be doing his typical thing so it's difficult to judge. I'm not opposed to moving my vote to him as we approach deadline based on his unhelpfulness, but the same could be said for Harry Potter.

[ibaesha]

Alrighty: BJ's votes and a bit of what happened around them.

random vote

channel (lordy)

vote max because of bad play in another game
unvoted because it was

viper (bluemonick)

that played badly
voted

viper

because he realized viper was in the game (was this a ruse?)
voted

mlaker (bogre)

following the next wagon that began forming
(says pooky is scum,

blackberry

questions why he doesn't vote him then, he responds saying pooky isn't getting lynched right now)
jumps on the

lordy

wagon - no reason
says 'we're all scum' after lordy gets angry
switches to

bluemonick

when lynch looks inevitable
votes pooky - no reason
votes spamwise/mathcam - no reason
votes harry potter calling him scum - omgus

+ a possibility of being scum partner bluemonick was referring to.

I think I see what you're saying here now that I look at it like this.

unvote; vote BJ

[ibaesha]

Well, lets have it out then.

1. We're not 'masons', we have the ability to talk at night.
2. I don't know your alignment.
3. We have never talked. I didn't bother to PM you because I figured you wouldn't respond and I didn't necessarily trust you. You didn't bother to PM me, going along with your typical unhelpfulness.
4. You voted mathcam earlier today, why? If you can call me a mason buddy, then mathcam would be a former mason buddy, wouldn't he?

BJ: Do you believe alignment and offices were assigned independently? Based on what you know, do you believe scum are able to talk to each other independent of office ability?

[ibaesha]

I don't really know about BJ. To me he appears to be doing his typical thing so it's difficult to judge. I'm not opposed to moving my vote to him as we approach deadline based on his unhelpfulness, but the same could be said for Harry Potter.

Should have said:

I don't really know about BJ. To me he appears to be doing his typical thing so it's difficult to judge. I have some information about him that causes me to be hesitant to vote for him, and I haven't analyzed his play thoroughly because I'm giving him some benefit of the doubt. I'd rather be voting for Harry Potter because he is guilty of similar behavior.

BJ: After MoS asked me to look at you more carefully I did and found some things that were questionable. What I saw was that your behavior earlier in day 1 could be a possible ruse/distancing attempt from Viper. I also saw your placement on the bluemonick wagon, which could be attributed to a bussing attempt. In addition, with bluemonick's statement about being nabbed by his scumbuddy, these things made you rise to the top of my list of possibilities. Then, I noted your vote for spamwise/mathcam, who I'm currently leaning towards being town. The fact that you were willing to vote for him without any reasoning behind it was something I also found suspicious. I'm neither scum looking for a reason to jump on your wagon, or a brainless sheep. And you should stop being suck a freakin' hypocrit. Bogre wagon, Lordy wagon? What were you, scum looking for a wagon to jump on or a brainless sheep?

Now, your reaction: First you called me your mason partner. You didn't state that you were unsure of my alignment until after I brought up the fact that you didn't bother to talk to me last night. Also, you've failed to answer my questions. Here, I'll repeat them for you.

Do you believe alignment and offices were assigned independently? Based on what you know, do you believe scum are able to talk to each other independent of office ability?

These are questions I've considered very heavily myself. I want to hear what YOU think about it.

MBL: It's interesting that when you finally do post, you ask everyone else what they think of people who have been lurking/not-contributing. What do you think about them? What do you think about anything? Other than your vote on Harry Potter yesterday, you've given pretty much no insight to anything. You're behaving like an observer and appear to be unwilling to give your own thoughts.

Mod: Can we please have an extension to the deadline?

[ibaesha]

@Baby Jesus- you jump all over with your votes every game is true, but normally your votes start out looking random and then ending up serving a purpose. Your voting here just doesn't have that flavor. The more I look at how things happened, the more positive I am that you are the scum buddy bluemonick was talking about.

confirm vote Baby Jesus

Echo echo echo. You just restated MoS's argument and part of mine. Do you have thoughts on anyone/anything else in this game, or are you just going to continue lurking and piggy-backing other people's arguments? I'm heavily considering moving my vote back to you right now.

[ibaesha]

No, not really. But that's not entirely my problem with him. My problem is that his contributions in the game have been sparse (almost an understatement) and singularly focused while simply echoing other people. While he's happy to jump on BJ's voting record and actions, he doesn't answer for his own.

Here's what he's done:
random vote pooky
gets on mlaker/bogre wagon and stays on it the rest of the day without saying much else
votes kurtz based on someone else's reasoning - offers nothing else
(doesn't post for 23 days after saying he'd be gone for 5)
compares bj to pooky after bj receives a couple votes, but appears to believe pooky's behavior is okay and bj's isn't, but doesn't vote yet.
Decides to use other people's reasoning to vote BJ after he gets a couple votes himself.
confirm votes bj again echoing other people's reasoning.

Essentially, there has not really been one original thought from him the entire game. Every single vote he's made has been a bandwagon vote based on other people's reasoning.

[ibaesha]

If I don't see a content-full post with original thought from H_P and soon, I more than likely will. The fact is, even though I'm suspicious of BJ, I would like to have the chance to talk with him at night that we didn't give ourselves last night. If he is town and we can settle our differences, it could turn out to be a strength. Right now they're fairly equal in scumminess for me, with BJ just ahead based on the possibility that he bussed bluemonick.

[ibaesha]

I do think it's possible. Why wouldn't it be? He can either convince me he's town or not. There's plenty of things I have to discuss with him, that might shed some light for me about his alignment. If he is town and we can work together to catch scum, that's definately a strength for the town. Yes, he could also fool me into believing he is town when he's not, but I doubt his ability to do this as well as some other people.

What doesn't ring true to you? Please explain your line of thinking.

[ibaesha]

I was the 2nd vote on his wagon so you definately recall wrong.

[ibaesha]

I'm having trouble picturing him saying something to you in a PM that could convince you he was innocent that he couldn't/wouldn't say in the thread.

It's mostly to do with the mechanics of the game, taking into consideration what we (me and BJ)know. I've already begun asking him some questions in the thread, but there are other questions I have. They are questions I'm not inclined to ask in the thread because it would be revealing more information than I'd like to. Based on how he responds to these questions, I might be able to discern better if he's town or scum.

And by having to explain my thoughts in detail about this topic, I'm more convinced that it is exactly what I should do.

unvote; vote Harry Potter

[ibaesha]

Nothing has changed, but all of a sudden people are "rethinking" their opinions of BJ. I find this highly suspect.

Just to clarify. You're not referring to me in this are you? I haven't necessarily changed my opinion of BJ. The points I brought up are still valid. However, I've also decided that Harry Potter is fairly equal in scumminess based on the points I've brought up against him. Note: He has yet to respond to those at all. I simply would like to have a night to talk to BJ and see what comes of it. I do realize that I should've made this attempt before, but that's a mistake I made and I can't turn back time to fix it.

Iba, either you or BJ could get killed tonight, so that discussion would never happen.

Actually we wouldn't die until after the discussion happened. And the possibility of death only means that whoever is left alive (unless we're both killed) would have have the conversation + the knowledge of the other's alignment to work with going into the next day. For example: If BJ died and came up town, I would know that whatever he told me the night before could be trusted. And if he came up scum, I would know that it couldn't. And the same is true in reverse if I die. The negative here, which I've thought about already is that if BJ is scum, he could use the conversation to help his position later. In addition, If we both die, our alignments are revealed and that also would shed light on things for the town. Right now, I believe that the positive possibilities are worth risking the negative one.

BJ: I do expect for us to talk tonight and for you to be responsive to me. If you are not, my vote may very well return to you tomorrow if we both live through the night.

[ibaesha]

I also want to know why TheCesspit thinks Ibby sounds desparate?

I do too. Desperation is not something I've been feeling so I'm unsure how it would've been conveyed. I will admit to being fairly confused about the game, in fact:

This game hurts my head. I'll refrain from vouching things about this game when I don't really understand how it all -- namely offices, role, and motives -- fit together.

Is very much how I've been feeling.

[ibaesha]

More productively...Could someone not voting for BJ (other than BJ, of course) please explain why?

I've already explained this on my part. Although BJ's continued avoidance of bringing forward a suitable defense is making me unsure of that decision. I'm starting to think that his behavior is going to carry onward to night and that I'll be wasting my time and effort. (Which is exactly why I didn't bother to PM him last night)

So BJ: Is it going to be a waste of my time and effort to communicate with you tonight? Are you going to continue with the unhelpful and uninsightful behavior? Just tell me now and I won't bother.

[ibaesha]

So BJ: Is it going to be a waste of my time and effort to communicate with you tonight? Are you going to continue with the unhelpful and uninsightful behavior? Just tell me now and I won't bother.

No response to this tells me that it is a waste of time.

I just double checked my PM. It says I am pro-town.

Lie #1

WTF are you talking about? I only HAVE one facet to my role. There's nothing else to my role other then what I have said.

Lie #2

good stuff here. So if I DO come up pro-town, does that show you as a liar, and the Day Two lynch?

IF? Don't you mean when?

unvote; vote BJ

You've managed to kill all benefit of the doubt I was willing to give you. gj

[ibaesha]

Nah, you won't be communicating with me because you're dead. I wouldn't have unvoted you in the first place if I didn't think it was worth giving you a chance. You are the one who has proven since then that you're nothing but worthless scum.

[ibaesha]

[ibaesha]

Vote: MoS

FoS: Ibby, Mathcam

Bagged 3 scum for the price of 1.

At least one of those is wrong.

So is anyone besides me noticing that people keep trying to put people in Jack Quinn's office? First mathcam was switched with Ibby and became Jack Quinn, now Armlx was made Jack Quinn in mathcam's place. Interesting. Not sure what to make of it.

I'm not either, despite knowing what's in that office.

Slightly more suspicious of mathcam due to recent events.

[ibaesha]

The office changing has a bit to do with it. Not because of BJ. But another occurence that's bothering me. I'm sure you can figure out what it is.

[ibaesha]

That theory has crossed my mind, except I wonder why mathcam wouldn't have been switched the second time sooner if that's the case.

[ibaesha]

Coron: I had very good reason to lynch BJ. You don't know all the details. You're obviously a skimmah. BJ lied about his role. He lied about a part of it that I was well aware of. And I'm not talking about the 'pm says pro-town' part. I'm pretty sure mathcam also knew he was lying as well. In my mind, when he was that close to a lynch, there was no reason whatsoever to lie unless he was scum. He could've told the truth and remained vague, but he didn't choose to do that either.

mathcam: I'm suspicious of you because of what has happened to that additional facet that BJ lied about. Hopefully that clarifies it for you better.

[ibaesha]

Well you think wrong. Also, I haven't vaguely threatened anyone. I mentioned a suspicion of mathcam based on knowledge that I have. I haven't given specifics because I can get my point across to him without doing so. If there's enough of a consensus that I should fully explain my knowledge, I certainly will. Doing so would also allow me to ask many questions that I have had since my office was switched. Because of what I know, however, I haven't been inclined to reveal things to scum that might narrow down possible targets for them.

Also, armlx now knows exactly what is in my/mathcam's previous office, so I am fairly sure he and mathcam can both understand my statements in regards to -that- office.

[ibaesha]

Oh by the way, funny how you FoS Cesspit for helping scum narrow down while accusing me of being suspicious for not being specific enough.

[ibaesha]

Agreed, Yos. The only thing I can think of is that Jack Johnson, Jack Ryan, and Jack Yates all have the ability to communicate at night. This is the only thing in the role that has yet to be revealed, and I don't see any harm in doing it now. BabyJesus sort of implicitly claimed that Jack Ryan wasn't part of the picture, which I think is the lie to which Ibby is referring. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why this makes me more scummy.

Primarily because after you pushed BJ's lynch yesterday, InHim came up dead today. You are the only one other than me that knew that InHim was the third person. Now, the other person I had to discuss things with is dead and also pro-town. I cannot verify anything that I discussed with InHim last night for the town since he is no longer living. This is rather convenient, especially with how people are acting towards me today (somewhat predictable after BJ came up pro-town). So from my perspective, I see a possibility that you helped take out BJ, then InHim, and I'm next (lynchbait). Yes, it's a paranoid suspicion but there it is.

For the record (even though it may not hold any weight now): InHim said Harry Potter has to go. He also remained suspicious of Yosarian. I asked him to clarify his case against Yosarian for me because I didn't quite understand it myself. He told me that it was primarily meta and instructed me to read over his case against Yosarian again and compare the things he said to about Yosarian to what scum have done in past games.

We also discussed BJ's lynch and while he understood my part in it, he explained why he did not vote for BJ despite the behavior. The explanation was that he has played many games with BJ, perhaps more than anyone on the site and that he doesn't go for lynching BJ as early as day 3 because BJ is always like that and can be useful later in the game. He also stated that a helpful BJ is more indicative of scum BJ than a non-helpful BJ.

I did ask him some questions regarding the game mechanics. Much of it has become irrelevant now I think, but I will post those questions if anyone is interested. He never got back to me about them as he said he hadn't had time to really put a lot of thought into the mechanics yet.

I have felt very confused about this game ever since my office was swapped. At one point of yesterday, BJ and InHim were the leading vote-getters and I very much didn't know how to deal with that considering I was unsure of their alignment. I probably haven't played well during this game (in fact I feel I haven't) and can sort of understand some suspicions against me. This is the best explanation I can give for my actions yesterday and stated suspicions of today.

[ibaesha]

I realize it's probably overly paranoid, that's why I'm not voting for you over it and said it's a slight suspicion. That doesn't stop me from considering the possibility though.

[ibaesha]

Who? Me or mathcam?

[ibaesha]

BJ said he had no other facet to his role beyond the ability to talk to me at night. This was untrue because he could also talk to InHim.

[ibaesha]

Whatever. He lied. I didn't see a reason for him to lie unless he was scum. He could've easily said anything to the effect of their being a third without revealing who it was. Especially when asked directly and confronted about it by mathcam.

[ibaesha]

Ibby's actions yesterday seemed to be that of "I'm pissed off I have to talk to someone other than my scum group." IMHO.

That's complete bullshit and shows that you aren't reading this game thoroughly. I unvoted BJ for quite a while yesterday on the basis of WANTING to give us a chance to talk in the case he was pro-town. An action for which I had to explain more than once and took quite a bit of heat over. His unhelpful attitude continued. He refused to defend cases against him. Then he lied about his role. Even if it wasn't for all of that, it's not even in my nature to be as you describe. I'm not sure what you're trying to pull here Coron or if you are simply being completely stupid.

Can ibby talk to Inhim or was he the middle man between you two?

Why don't you try reading the game? This has already been explained. I cannot talk to mathcam. I have NEVER been able to talk to mathcam. I was able to talk to BJ and InHim. They were able to talk to me and each other. The only thing mathcam has to do with it is that he (Spamwise) used to have my office. In addition, I gave a complete rundown of what myself and InHim discussed last night which you have also apparently failed to read.

[ibaesha]

I thought he was addressing mathcam. Otherwise the question is really poorly written.

[ibaesha]

The only thing I can think of is that Jack Johnson, Jack Ryan, and Jack Yates all have the ability to communicate at night.

Thought it was pretty clear from that.

[ibaesha]

Yes, that's the part I was referring to. I read it completely different obviously. I assumed mathcam was referring to the third person and BJ was lying about it.

[ibaesha]

No. Jack Quinn has nothing to do with the three night-talk offices. The only involvement is me and mathcam being swapped.

[ibaesha]

I found it suspicious that mathcam referred to the Jack names of the office instead of naming the players involved. IE: Me, BJ, and InHim.

[ibaesha]

Kinda like he might be avoiding the fact that InHim is dead now, which fit in with my other suspicion as described earlier. *shrug* I know anyone could've looked it up, but why not just name the players? A lot of people are lazy and/or lurking and might not notice it.

[ibaesha]

I'm indifferent? BULLSHIT. I have been fairly consistently under fire since yesterday. I have contributed a whole HELL of a lot more to this game than you have. You fucking lurked for 3 days and NOW you want to come in here and act like you're all high and mighty and no one else is doing a fucking thing to catch scum? Where the hell were you before? Any indifference I am showing is because I am in pure defensive mode due to BJ's fucking idiocy yesterday and Coron's idiocy today.

Yesterday I was in a damned whatever I do situation because of EXACTLY what has happened today. MoS pushed me about BJ and I had NO CHOICE but to take a stance when I DIDN'T WANT TO. When I looked him over he WAS SCUMMY and there was NO WAY I could say he wasn't. Then, I attempted to give him a chance because of 'his play' (AND I AM SICK TO DEATH OF PLAYSTYLE EXCUSES) so that in case he was town we could WORK TOGETHER. But he didn't fucking help with that either. I didn't know if he was scum or not. If I didn't lynch him and he did turn out to be scum, then I was gonna get fire for that. If I didn't lynch him and he turned out to be town, I'd get fire for that. If I did lynch him and he was scum, I'd be accused of bussing. If I lynched him and he turned out to be town, I get EXACTLY what I'm getting today. As I see it, no matter what I did I was fucked. And it all started because MoS wouldn't leave me the hell alone over BJ in the first place.

You want a stance from me? I don't have a solid case against anyone. I think the scum are very talented in this game. Here's who I think they are:

Fuldu - BAD FEELING and #1 suspect of 'nabbing bluemonick'.
MoS - Because I think if anyone is guilty of pushing a bullshit case on BJ it's him.
Yosarian - Because InHim probably was onto something even if I don't get it.
LML (Based on Max and the fact that mr scumhunter is lurking and not helping at all here)
mathcam - Because of what I've already said and I have this weird feeling that he may have given info to MoS to help with MoS's push on me yesterday in regards to BJ.

Let's start at the top.

vote: Fuldu

[ibaesha]

You're sure hypocritcal at the very least considering your performance in this game up until today. Hypocracy isn't necessarily scummy and neither is lurking or I'd think you were scum. You simply fall below the list I just gave but I don't necessarily buy your 'towness' either.

[ibaesha]

armlx: I don't really have a read on. He has posted some and said some strange things.

Kurtz was replaced by uraj who is posting and while Kurtz was playing he posted alright. Some things he said made me believe he was as confused about the mechanics about this game as I was and therefore more likely to be town.

MmoD: Same thing about the confusion over mechanics.

Pooky: Pooky lurks - he does it more as town than scum. He was also on bluemonick's lynch and he hates bussing so he got points for that.

Harry Potter: I was on his ass yesterday and he's still suspicious, but I feel better about him being town today because 1) I find other people more suspect and 2) He felt this 'town-vibe' from me which tends to make me a bit more trusting, otherwise he's buddying up (kinda doubtful when I could easily be run up when he said it)

Already talked about both Fuldu and Max (now LML) who are on my list.

Coron was lurking in -all- his games, but overall I get a town vibe from him even if he's pissing me off.

[ibaesha]

Oh and as far as me calling you out for lurking it's because simply, if you are town, I wanted your insights because you're a decent player. You have no excuse for how you behaved the first three days. And even if you posted -more- you lacked any amount of actual content until today. And if your behavior the first three does was due to your "I'll act scummy so I'm not nk'd' you already know what I think of that and you should stop doing it because it doesn't make you a better player.

[ibaesha]

All directed at Uraj:

Coron has called me scum twice. MBL has done it once. armlx is 'suspicious' of me, and Yosarian has been questioning me in a manner that implies either: he is suspicious of me or he is trying to cast doubt on my actions. I don't give a damn if I have any votes or not. People saying I'm scum or being suspicious of me must be answered.

I am pissed off and lost my temper. Being accused of indifference after Coron's stupid attack with the 'she didn't want to talk to someone not her scumbuddy' (where I almost lost my temper but held back and posted later when I calmed down) is complete bullshit and I'm not going to stand for it. I'm not sorry for it, I won't take back anything I said because I feel strongly about all of it.

As for mathcam: I also do not know about him. I have been back and forth about Spamwise and him the entire game. And he is at the bottom of that list (note: there are many other players in this game) because he is getting pressured for very much the same things that I am. Since I know MY alignment, it's possible that the case against him is also bullshit and he's not scum.

As for Fuldu being at the top, it's not because he posted (that's totally stupid, heh) It's almost all gut with a bluemonick nab on the side. And right now I'm real happy to go with my strongest gut feeling since I really have no solid case against anyone. I'm under fire anyways, so why hold back? Going after Fuldu (of the people in this game) is probably bad for my health (as your vote shows), but I am beyond caring about my health at this point.

As pissed off as I got at MBL, he has a damn good point. And if I have to risk getting lynched to be honest about who I think the scum are, then so be it. At least I'll have done my part which is more than I can say for other people. I figure I was looking like a pretty good lynch target anyways.

[ibaesha]

I believe I addressed every single one of those people in an earlier post. So your accusation is that because I didn't go after every lurker in this game, I'm scum with them? Good work there. That's heavy thinking. Please.

[ibaesha]

I'll be VERY surprised if neither of {Fuldu, Ibby} are scum. I'll also be surprised if both are.

Stick with that and remember it once I'm gone.

[ibaesha]

Oh and MBL, why don't you put your vote where your mouth is if you're so convinced I'm scum? Everything you're doing is from the perspective that I am.

[ibaesha]

Yup. I do love Pooks that much.

I went after you because it's you and I expected more of you than armlx, mmod, kurtz, and max. If you're town, I expect you hunting scum and you were doing -nothing-.

I went after H_P originally for lurking + the post where you voted for him. I thought that you either A) had incriminating info on him or B) were throwing a buddy under the bus as you like to do.

[ibaesha]

Why didn't you comment the morning after bluemonick tried to out you as his scumpartner? I'd have figured you'd be furious.

I figured his entire play was idiocy, including when he went after me. I also knew he wasn't referring to me since I am -not- his scumpartner. Why would I be furious when I know that's not the case? I was looking at Fuldu as the best possibility there.

Already said that I believe LML is scum and why I think that. Glad you agree.

[ibaesha]

Still waiting for that vote, MBL.

And if Uraj is scum, he's not bussing me. However, he is defending his partner Fuldu.

[ibaesha]

Two scumteams. Whaddaya think?

I thought about this actually. I came to the conclusion the kills signified either two scum groups or one + vig/sk. I think your posts about two scum groups and who might be what are worth looking at. Even though you're incorrectly implicating me, I think you're onto something.

And who looked nervous as bluemonick was imploding and implicating you?

Care to re-word this? I'm not sure what you mean. I know I certainly wasn't nervous since I didn't even consider he might be implicating me in any way. If he was, he was implicating a town-member in hopes that they'd get suspected for it later.

What do you think of Yos?

I have found myself agreeable to his actions and thinking throughout the game. I've stated this. I think he's followed me some and also been agreeable to me. If Yosarian is scum, I would consider his actions towards me up until today to be pretty blatant buddying up. I'm not sure if that's a tactic that he employs though and I'm also not sure that he would employ it so obviously if he was scum. InHim seemed to have issue with him, which I still don't really understand, but I don't want to dismiss either. This is especially true because Yosarian is ... well tricksy.

[ibaesha]

Harry Potter: I completely disagree that MBL is not saying anything in his recent posts. While he was guilty of non-content in previous days, the most recent posts have contained quite a bit of thought as to the possibilities of who scum is based on past events. He is asking probing questions and drawing possible connections. I'm not happy with the fact that he's continually gone from the perspective that I -must- be scum. Even from that perspective though, I think he is possibly moving in the right direction. I find your dismissal of his posts to be suspect as if you're attempting to downplay the subject matter he's bringing forward.

[ibaesha]

So you're taking the side of someone who won't put their vote where their mouth is. Good job. Also, I don't see how what you know of me would make you suspicious of me and not mathcam.

[ibaesha]

I can't wait until I can prove Coron wrong about me yet again. And here I used to believe he could read me fairly well.

Dude, you totally fail.

[ibaesha]

Fair enough.

[ibaesha]

Wouldn't he have some inkling of that? He seemed more curious as to why his office blew up than anyone.

[ibaesha]

Nothing contributed for two weeks, and has just slid by so far. Just to examine yet another person here. And hasn't LoudMouthLee joined this game and not said anything yet either?

And he was replaced by STD who hasn't made any type of contributive post either.

unvote; vote Pooky

You happy, MBL? Doing such a thing makes me cry inside.

I still think Fuldu is scum. And probably STD formerly LML formerly Max.

[ibaesha]

That was enlightening, Pooks.

[ibaesha]

Well, care to contemplate out loud for us, then?

Who do you think is scum? Why? Etc. C'mon Pooks. Let's hear it.

I mean, do you realize that MBL is accusing us of being scum together? I know that's not true. You know that's not true, yet you're allowing him to spread such foolish notions without a word?

[ibaesha]

Alright, when you were bitching me out for not even FoSing Pooky, what were you implying?

Also,

Here are MoS's posts since I posted a series of comments on Max, Pooky, and ibby/yos's reactions to bluemonick trying to take them down:

I thought you were grouping us together there too.

So I may have poor reading comprehension but you've accused me of being scum so many times and in so many different ways, I had to decipher.

So who do you think I'm scum with again?

[ibaesha]

Pooky: Pooky lurks - he does it more as town than scum. He was also on bluemonick's lynch and he hates bussing so he got points for that.

This is pretty much my thoughts about you, Pooks.
Then I was attacked repeatedly. And you continued to post nothing.
Why would Pooky allow me to be attacked in such a manner without a word?
Does Pooks think I'm scum? Or is he scum himself not wanting to step in on what could be an inevitable Ibby-lynch?
Made me start wondering if MBL was right about you.

Your last post doesn't really make much sense to me. You know better than to think that not contributing is going to help catch scum.

[ibaesha]

And I'd say if anything it's most likely you were on the bluemonick scumteam after the way he went after you.

I get laughing rights when this theory is proven completely wrong, right?

Bluemonick used a craplogic attack on me and was a total idiot who got run up for doing so. I actually found it humorous that he could've possibly believe anyone would fall for his BS. He fell apart when his attack on me failed. It's just as humorous that you're attempting to draw this connection from something so ridiculous.

[ibaesha]

Oh can't forget this:

I was implying that you're not playing to win as town... ignoring so many obvious scumbags.

I have felt very confused about this game ever since my office was swapped.

My 'not playing to win' is definately a symptom of my confusion. I disagree that I've been apathetic, non-contributive, or anything of the sort. I still hold to the fact that up until today, I contributed a lot more to this game and trying to find scum than you have (hell, I even helped catch one). I think that this statement coming from you is highly hypocritical.

[ibaesha]

I didn't. How the hell did I sweep it under the rug? I think you must've missed a post of mine.

First of all, at the beginning of day 2, I was more interested in mathcam answering my questions about Spamwise. I've already explained that I didn't even -consider- that bluemonick was pointing at me when he said that he'd been 'nabbed' by his scumpartner. Why? Because it couldn't POSSIBLY be me. Anyways, I did NOT sweep this topic under the rug. Once mathcam answered my questions, I was out of town, JUST LIKE YOU. In my very next post from returning, I responded about this very topic. I think YOU are sweeping that under the rug. Here, read it again.

Post 646

That is sweeping under the rug? Try again.

[ibaesha]

Excuse me, day 3. Point still holds. Did you read that post or did you conveniently decide to ignore it?

[ibaesha]

I'll be on vacation and very busy (getting my kids ready for the school year) until Sept 5th. I'll check in whenever I have time.

Come again? You're full of shit.

[ibaesha]

So basically, it was alright for you to do nothing because you were gone. And because I didn't respond to this topic WHILE I WAS AWAY, I don't get credit for it. EVEN THOUGH, I responded IMMEDIATELY upon my return.

Nice hypocracy there pal. I'm starting to really wonder what you're trying to pull here because your case against me gets more and more idiotic as we go along. You are TRYING to make it fit what suits your stupid fucking theory and refuse to listen to any defense I have. If you don't believe me, say it and fucking vote for me. If you're not willing to put your vote where your mouth is, then you obviously don't believe what you're saying. Hmm? Why would someone not believe what they're saying? Oh! Because they are SCUM!

unvote; vote MrBuddyLee

[ibaesha]

Not listening to MBL-scum.

I'm sure your scumbuddy Fuldu is proud.
That was some nice distancing earlier.
Pretty sure you downplayed my arguments about him being the one that bluemonick was referring to.
Oh yeah, and your attempt to derail bluemonick's wagon with the random Harry Potter vote is also noted.
You're not fooling me anymore.

Vote stands.

[ibaesha]

vote: Harry Potter

I believe there should be a wagon awaiting his response when he returns from vacation.

Please explain this vote and why you placed it mid-way through the bluemonick wagon. You have all kinds of theories about how people reacted to the bluemonick wagon, but yet, you haven't explained your own actions. You completely ignored the wagon and made this post. If that's not an attempt at derailment, I don't know what is. It leads one to believe you have dirt on Harry Potter.

This is pretty amusing considering it was part of the reason I voted for Harry Potter yesterday (which I've explained, but like everything else I've said, you conveniently ignore). And yet, today, you're all about 'Why were you pressuring Harry Potter of all people!?'

And then today, you say how the Harry Potter wagon was convenient yesterday? Then what the hell was it the day before when you voted for him midway through a wagon on scum? You weren't be opportunistic or anything there, right.

Oh check it out!

vote: HarryPotter

So you didn't like that wagon, but yet you joined it. Good job.

unvote, vote: BJ

Oh yep, you were part of the lovely BJ wagon too.

Note: Both of these posts were without reason. Looks to me like you were happy to join whatever the wagon of the moment was. Please explain these votes.

I'm thinking Ibby is scum.

One!

And it's not all I've done--I've commented on the scumminess I see in cam, cesspit and Ibby, primarily due to their indifferent tone.

Two!

I responded to this. Am I still indifferent?


Post 871 - An attack centered on me being scum.

Three!

Post 874

Four!

Another attack that focuses on me being scum, but spreads it around a little. Here you actually do note the possibility that Fuldu is a likely candidate for the other person that bluemonick was referring to.

Vote ibaesha.

Here's why.
(buses scumpartner)

Five!

Once again, calling me scum and basing your argument on me being scum.

Post 866

Six!

Here, you start with the Ibby/Yos- scum theory, move on to Fuldu, but the wording is interesting. You're 'sorely tempted' when it comes to me and Yos, but when it comes to Fuldu 'it's really tough to say'. Nice way to push the theory against me, but downplay the theory about Fuldu.

Now then: Let's see.

Why didn't you comment the morning after bluemonick tried to out you as his scumpartner? I'd have figured you'd be furious.

I figured his entire play was idiocy, including when he went after me. I also knew he wasn't referring to me since I am -not- his scumpartner. Why would I be furious when I know that's not the case? I was looking at Fuldu as the best possibility there.

Do you believe this defense or not? Yes or no is fine.

Post 894.

Any problem with my responses there? You still haven't clarified what you meant.

Here are MoS's posts since I posted a series of comments on Max, Pooky, and ibby/yos's reactions to bluemonick trying to take them down:

Oh look! Fuldu isn't even mentioned here. But yet, you imply that I'm scum again.

If it was that ridiculous, why'd you try to sweep it under the rug instead of addressing it?

Why this question at all unless you completely ignored my response earlier?

Actually I did miss that because it took you a full day and night and a prodding from another player to address it. You get like 1/4 credit for that, and you know it.

Let's lynch Pooky and get this over with. Or Max/STD. How about if each of your scumteams debates for five minutes about which one should go first. Start... NOW.

This is a gem. It starts off with utter bullshit because I called you on your stupid 'you swept it under the rug' crap. I don't give a damn how you twist the start of day 3. If you don't believe the explanation I already gave, then say so. I didn't address the bluemonick thing immediately for the reasons I already mentioned. I obviously had other things on my mind like the discrepancy with Spamwise since that was something that did directly involve me. Then it moves on to 'nothing to see here! Let's lynch Pooky!'

You have pushed me relentlessly while practically giving Fuldu a free-ride. The little back and forth between you is a perfect distancing manuever. You have even dedicated an entire post to "If Ibby were scum." Why no one else? The post said "I'll start with Ibby". You can dedicate an entire post to why you think I'm scum, but then vote other people without doing the same thing? Beautiful. Looks to me like you're pushing my lynch from the sidelines, while not voting so that in the case that my lynch actually -does- go through, you can say "Hey! I never voted for her!" when I come up town.

I refuse to answer any more of your questions, or respond to any of your attacks if you are going to refuse to even consider my defenses. I absolutely reeks of someone who doesn't believe what they are saying and is just pulling arguments out of their ass. I mean you've called me scum or implied that I was scum no less than SIX times. And yet, you still don't want to vote me? Either you believe me or don't, but either piss or get off the pot.

[ibaesha]

This statement reeks of "Hey Friend o' Mine not on my scumteam, MBL doesn't think we're on the same scumteam but ima pretend he does in an attempt to get you to defend me."

Oh this is bullshit and you know it. I'm not even going to dignify it any further than to call it bullshit.

And Ibby, the part where you say I don't believe what I say is just silly. There are five scum or so out there. I intend to try to point out all of them before I die. I can only vote for one, does that mean I don't believe the cases I lay against the other four? Ridiculous statement by you, and I don't care if cam thinks I'm an ass for saying so. It's true--it's ridiculous

No, this is not ridiculous. It is absolutely NOT. You have made an incredibly hefty case against me. You have spent entire posts focusing on why you think I AM SCUM. You have stated it repeatedly and you have done your damndest to try to convince others that I am scum. Yet, you place your vote ELSEWHERE on a person you have not given anywhere NEAR as much focus and actually have a MUCH weaker case for being scum. You find other people scummier, but you're expending incredible amounts of energy to prove I am scum FIRST? Even though you're wanting to lynch them FIRST? That is what is ridiculous.

As I said, that reeks to me of someone who wants to push my lynch from the sidelines while refusing to vote for me. Here's a second theory though. In the case I'm not lynched today, you can go back later and use this to push a mislynch of me later in game when it's really going to hurt the town and may even lose us the game. I believe a mislynch on me today would be a hell of a lot less harmful than later. Yes, I think it's very possible that you're saving me for later so that when it's at lylo you can get me lynched and win the game for your scumteam. So, yep, if you think I'm scum, and you are town, let's get with lynching me now so you don't fuck it up for the town later. Obviously nothing I say is going to convince you that I'm not scum. Why wait?

No, I do NOT believe that defense. It's not a reasonable explanation for your silence at the start of D3 on the topic. If you really thought bluemonick outed Fuldu as his scumpartner at sunset, why didn't you comment on it at sunrise?

Great! You don't believe it. I have already defended this point thoroughly and explained myself repeatedly. I have already answered this question. One more time.

I KNEW THAT BLUEMONICK COULDN'T POSSIBLY BE REFERRING TO ME SINCE I AM NOT HIS SCUMPARTNER.

LOOK at my first response about this topic. I said Fuldu is the first one that comes to mind. There was absolutely NO assurity to my opinion on the matter. Just because you think this is the most important issue of the game doesn't mean I HAVE TO.

Now then. I am done answering this same damn question over and over. You don't believe my defense FINE. However, since you don't believe it, stop asking the same question over and over that I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED several times. If you think it makes me scum, then explain again why you are not voting for me?

Sorry, I just can't get past this:

WHY WOULD IBBY CALL ON A PLAYER OF UNKNOWN ALIGNMENT, WHO SHE JUST VOTED FOR, TO SAVE HER?

1. I voted for Pooky because I figured if he saw an Ibby vote he would stop lurking. Hey, look! I was right!
2. You know my relationship with Pooky so this is you just blowing hot air and attempting to sway people who don't.
3. I did not call on Pooky to save me. That is a clear misrepresentation of what happened. However, I couldn't figure out why Pooks would lurk through such severe attacks on me because it isn't like him. (See point 2) I even stated what I was thinking in regards to it. - Does Pooks think I'm scum, is Pooks scum himself, etc.
4. Do you think he got the title "Pooky got your back' for nothing?

Oh and by the way, this entire thing once again is you appearing thoroughly convinced that I am scum, but yet once again, you want to vote for someone else. Your case against Pooky and STD is severely lacking in comparison to your case against me so I still haven't figured out why you are not voting me unless you don't actually believe the shit you're spewing.

Now onto your defense of the questions I had about your own behavior. I don't believe your responses in Post 980. Nice attempt to sweep your own actions under the rug though. You completely ignored the bandwagon and voted someone else in what looks like an attempt to deflect attention away from a bandwagon on scum. Here you hammer me for not responding immediately to bluemonick's 'scumbuddy nab' thing but you're A-OK to ignore his entire bandwagon the day before? Yeah, whatever.

You still haven't explained your votes on Harry Potter and BJ yesterday. It's nice that you don't feel that they warrant the same scrutiny as my votes. Especially, since it was clearly opportunistic bandwagonning on your part. At least I gave reasons for my votes. Where are yours again?

And it's nice to see that you don't deny downplaying the possibility of Fuldu being who bluemonick was referring to. Why don't you ask him the same questions as me in regards to why he didn't address it immediately? More than one person has given an opinion that they felt he was a likely candidate. How come you're letting him off the hook, hmm? For that matter, why not question anyone else on that bandwagon? Or Yosarian who you appear to think is an equally possible candidate. Oh right, because you're too busy trying to paint me as scum without voting for me. Got it.

[ibaesha]

Just one thing:

Yes, I am sick to death of playstyle excuses. This is as it applies to people like BJ, I-J and others who say 'that's just how I play' whenever they're pressured. However, I also metagame quite a bit and will always take that into consideration when looking over someone's behavior. I may not like when people use playstyle as a reason to be idiotic or unhelpful, but it doesn't mean that I completely dismiss it either. I'm just simply tired of it. BJ's behavior and subsequent lynch (as town) is exactly why I'm tired of it. It was harmful to the town because he was a townie who was lynched. It's further harmful because it's caused me to come under fire and increased the possibility of me being lynched. Therefore we lose two townies for the price of one, just because BJ wants to say 'That's how I am, tough.' instead of actually defending himself.

[ibaesha]

Therefore we lose two townies for the price of one, just because BJ wants to say 'That's how I am, tough.' instead of actually defending himself.

This is bad wording so I'll address it now. It should say: We not only lose one townie, but two and all because BJ refused to defend himself.

[ibaesha]

Why I don't think spectrumvoid is scum:

Basically BJ's comment that his pm says his pro-town shows that he's lying. My PM doesn't state my alignment. So his lying about his pm, which may mean that he's scum.

She was the first person to make this statement. It is a true statement that pro-town PMs do not state alignment. While others echo'd this statement (including myself), the fact that she said it first makes her the most believable of them all. Despite some behavior from her here and there that I've found suspicious, I can't really believe she's scum due to this.

[ibaesha]

I haven't been bizarre. I have been bitchy, overreactive, explosive and highly defensive. As for demanding you vote for me. Here's the thing. Pushing a strong case against someone, while voting someone else based on a weaker case is flat out scummy. You're doing it pretty blatantly and it involves me so you're damn right I'm going to call you on it. I know you didn't go after me about BJ, but you're going after me for something that there is no defense that you will accept.

I have not asked you to answer questions over and over, nor said I was tired of hearing the same answer. That is a clear misrepresentation of what I have said. You have asked me the same question over and over and I have answered it every single time. I am tired of answering it and refuse to do so anymore.

You do, however, still fail to answer some of my questions except to say 'Yeah, I sucked the first three days, but hey, don't look at me, I thought the town was in good hands'. This is a bullshit answer and there's never an excuse to expect other people to catch the scum while you're being lazy. It's still funny that you dare to call other people lazy and apathetic when you're guilty of that same crime yourself when we consider the first three days. Once again, explain your opportunistic bandwagon votes on Harry Potter and BJ yesterday. You claimed the Harry Potter wagon was opportunistic, why did you join it?

As far as the Pooky thing, you had -already- made posts that focused on me being scum. You had already pushed me hard, so acting like you suddenly find me scummy for -that- is silly. You can add it to your other suspicions but don't act like you suddenly decided I was scummy when I did that. It's weird? Sure, maybe. I don't really care. I can be cuddly about Pooky all I want and you can't stop me. (Enter STD: Playstyle excuse? hahaha )

[ibaesha]

1. I think the cases against Pooky and Max/LML/STD are stronger, and I've made that very clear.

No you haven't. Not to me. Oh you might say you find them scummier, but you've been pushing me far harder. Your actions do not show that you think your case against them is stronger than your case against me. I get full-blown lengthy posts dedicated to me. You just say you think they're lurkerscum that wanted to off bluemonick because they must be from the opposting scumteam. That's it.

For the record, I considered BJ to be a candidate for having bussed bluemonick and possibly the one who 'nabbed' him, so I actually don't believe it's unfathomable that Harry Potter would think that. A point could be made that he may have been parrotting me when he said that though.

Also, My not addressing the bluemonick thing immediately day 3 is your opinion of what you felt I should do. The fact that I did not do it doesn't make me scum. If you think that your floating through the game, jumping on bandwagons without giving a reason is something that's fine for you to do, why are you holding my behavior to such a higher standard? I sure as hell don't think that you should've played the first three days the way you did if you are town. And in fact, my pressuring you early on day 2 was -because- I felt if you were town, that you damn well better get your ass into the game and start helping to catch scum. It comes out of respect of you as a player. Maybe if you had responded to that pressure, we wouldn't be where we are now.

[ibaesha]

Just because you're not voting for me doesn't mean you're not pushing my lynch. Harry Potter's reaction to you is proof of that. Even if you're not (which I don't believe), you sure LOOK like you are. And if you're trying to get me to talk more, you certainly did. Not like I lacked content or posts in this game or have ever lurked.

Once again, improvement on how things have gone the past few days? You're partially responsible for that, dontcha think? <--- excuse snide remark but every time you admonish the rest of us for the last few days, take a look at yourself before you speak.

[ibaesha]

*cough* If MBL can be an ass so can I.

Once again, improvement on how things have gone the past few days? You're partially responsible for that, dontcha think?

Except for the part where we lynched scum. You weren't in any way responsible for that event.

[ibaesha]

Stating a suspcion and not putting your vote there is not inherently scummy. Ibby's persistence on that particular point is getting tiresome.

About as tiresome as MBL asking me the same question repeatedly for which there is no answer that will satisfy him? I can only think of two reasons for this. 1) He is scum attempting to make a false accusation fit. 2) He is town who has become so attached to his theory that even though he is asking the question, he is unwilling to consider the merit of the answer.

#1 seems more viable to me, obviously. However, I will consider #2.

If it is #2 then he is expecting me to have behaved in the manner he would've without actually having been in my position at the start of day 3. Note: I was focused more on things that I knew directly involved me such as the discrepancy with spamwise/mathcam and also the mechanics of the game where I took into account the knowledge of my office - Still willing to explain if anyone is interested. Since MBL isn't in my office, if he's town, he's stubbornly refusing to contemplate my position at the time where he expected different behavior from me.

Taking that into consideration, it is possible that I am guilty of similar stubborness in regards to MBL. I am a firm believer of putting your vote where your mouth is. I find it scummy when people don't. Always have - always will. MBL has expressed being more suspicious of others, but his primary attacks have been on me. Therefore, I have disbelieved his stated 'more suspicious of others' stance because he's not behaving in a manner I would myself.

I have been contemplating the possibility that myself and MBL are two townies arguing over differences of how we would each handle things and finding each other scummy for not doing what we would do ourselves. If this is true, continuing to fight over it will not do the town any good. I'm not ready to entirely accept this idea but it is something that is on my mind. In light of it, I am willing to back down from arguing with MBL further at this point. (agree to disagree as he put it)

I, for instance, happen to be quite suspicious of you, spectrum (I'm very suspicious of a lot of people for that matter), but I'm not voting for you at this time.

There's a very good case for spectrum being town. The fact that you don't recognize it is suspect.

[ibaesha]

Ibaesha, surely you're not blind to the fact that you yourself are also guilty of fueling this fixation between you and MBL?

Obviously I'm not blind to it since that's the primary basis of my last post. What's your point?

By all means, elaborate. I very well may have missed it.

Why I don't think spectrumvoid is scum:

Basically BJ's comment that his pm says his pro-town shows that he's lying. My PM doesn't state my alignment. So his lying about his pm, which may mean that he's scum.

She was the first person to make this statement. It is a true statement that pro-town PMs do not state alignment. While others echo'd this statement (including myself), the fact that she said it first makes her the most believable of them all. Despite some behavior from her here and there that I've found suspicious, I can't really believe she's scum due to this.

[ibaesha]

MBL made several posts, including one that was lengthy and specifically targetted at me -before- the back and forth between us began. That is when I began asking him why he wasn't voting for me. It's not like I suddenly came up with this during our battle. So I'm still not getting your point. I have also just conceded that I am possibly guilty of being stubborn about my stance on that topic and that it may be a difference of opinion. Essentially, I said I'd drop it. So why are you now pushing the matter?

Let's go over what I am suspicious about with MBL.

1. Possible attempt at derailment of the bluemonick wagon with a post that also is somewhat misleading in regards to Harry Potter.
2. Possible opportunistic bandwagon jumping without giving reasons.
3. Attacking me over the bluemonick thing in a manner which suggests he doesn't believe what he is saying since no answer is acceptable.
4. Lengthy and repeated attacks of me while voting elsewhere. (I will drop this, but I still find it scummy regardless of if other people disagree)

So, I guess that's where it leaves me while I contemplate the idea of us being two townies fighting. I'm -still- not sure what point you're trying to make here. You say it's tiresome, yet you're attempting to drag it out some more. WTF?

I flat disagree with you about spectrumvoid. How the hell was she supposed to know BJ was joking? And I don't think he was joking as much as he was being an ass anyways. Her reaction seemed entirely genuine and with each attempt you make to brush it off as inconsequential, the more suspicious I become of you.

[ibaesha]

Pretty much. But for some reason Uraj seems to want to push the issue now. *shrug*

[ibaesha]

Repetative re-read promises without follow through. That's the scummy kind of lurking. My initial thoughts on him were that he was confused and I shared that feeling so I was cutting him some slack. I don't see any reason not to pressure him to actually contribute now.

unvote; vote mmod

FoS: Pooky

Just because I unvoted and went on a rampage about MBL doesn't mean you're off the hook Pooks. I completely don't buy your last post (it screams Pooky-scum) and the fact that you've disappeared since is also rather scummy. As for the questions you asked, I think you should answer them yourself out loud for everyone to hear because I personally am not into the guessing game thing.

I'll cut MBL a break since I don't know how objective I was being due to being incredibly pissed off. I thought he was pushing a BS case against me and I still am not sure he wasn't so I'll be keeping that and my other suspicions of him in the back of my mind.

[ibaesha]

Uhh... Thanksgiving? Forgive my ignorance, but what country is it Thanksgiving in? Not too sure I believe this...

[ibaesha]

Candadian holiday aside, I'm happy to leave my vote where it is until MMOD posts something substantial that leads me to believe he's not scum or is replaced by someone who does the same.

[ibaesha]

Candadian holiday aside, I'm happy to leave my vote where it is until MMOD posts something substantial that leads me to believe he's not scum or is replaced by someone who does the same.

No change.

[ibaesha]

I'm not particularly inspired by MMOD's return. It's nice he wants to side with me instead of MBL, but I don't see it as a mark of him being pro-town. Also, adopting the argument against Yos that STD made is plainly silly. I think his deflection away from Pooky is telling as well. Seems to me he's just saying whatever he can to look like he's participating, but really isn't. Happy with my vote.

About TheCesspit: I'm interested in hearing his response to the case against him and although it appears fairly strong, I'm not very much inclined to be trusting MoS right now.

[ibaesha]

Well, MBL, you've just managed to alienate me again. Good job.

1. I wasn't 'buddying' up to Pooky anymore than normal.
2. You've obviously failed to read my follow-up posts about Pooky since I stopped being pissed off about you and tried to look at things more objectively.
3. It's a flat out LIE that I'm laying groundwork for a Cesspit vote. It was the current topic of the game and I felt the need to comment on it instead of ignore it. I'm not into the wagon or I'd already be on it. I don't trust MoS, especially with the way he pushed me about BJ yesterday and how that turned out.

I can't do a fucking thing to change your mind about me. I give up. You think I'm scum, fine. I guess the whole part where I backed off, agreed to disagree, and then attempted to look at things from a more objective, non-emotional viewpoint didn't matter either. I thought perhaps we were two townies fighting and that we might be better served by working together instead of fighting while the scum sat off to the sidelines and laughed. But whatever, you go on with your bad self. If you're town, you've made a horrible play by forcing me to do nothing but defend myself against your craptastical attacks. Hope you figure it out before it's too late.

[ibaesha]

Pooky:

Well, care to contemplate out loud for us, then?

Who do you think is scum? Why? Etc. C'mon Pooks. Let's hear it.

I asked you those questions you're expecting from MBL. Nice to see that you're expecting him to ask the same questions I asked, but you're not bothering to answer me.

[ibaesha]

So yeah ibby, I still find you suspicious largely due to the way you interacted with Pooky. Not much I can say... your scumhunting success today will tell everyone a lot more about your alignment.

Are you trying to imply that if I'm unsuccessful in lynching scum today that I must be scum? Because if you are, that's a rather high expectation you're placing on me. Especially in a game where you admit yourself that there's several people who are highly suspicious.

But hey, let's see what Ibby thought:

Fuldu - BAD FEELING and #1 suspect of 'nabbing bluemonick'.
MoS - Because I think if anyone is guilty of pushing a bullshit case on BJ it's him.
Yosarian - Because InHim probably was onto something even if I don't get it.
LML (Based on Max and the fact that mr scumhunter is lurking and not helping at all here)
mathcam - Because of what I've already said and I have this weird feeling that he may have given info to MoS to help with MoS's push on me yesterday in regards to BJ.

Alright, revised.

Fuldu - Yep, nothing has changed my mind. It even seemed that while me and MBL were arguing, Fuldu was happy to throw a jab in here and there, while not really getting too involved. Since his bluemonick catch, he hasn't done much to find scum, IMO, just going with the flow. Also, while people are happy to point at me, MoS, and mathcam about the BJ wagon, Fuldu was right there, pushing pretty damn hard as well, yet seems to have escaped any heat for it whatsoever.

Kurtz/Uraj - Looking back over Kurtz' behavior, his reaction to lordy seems to be feigned and not innocent/confused speculation as I believed it to be at the time he said it. I'm inclined to believe that he is the office mover and scum. (I believe the office mover -must- be scum now, for the record) Uraj looked good coming in, but he's been sending up red flags. His vote on me (for a genuine explosion), while FoSing MBL, then his switch to MBL when that looked heated up, and finally his attempt to cast suspicion on spectrumvoid, which despite his arguments against why I think she's innocent, causes me to be further suspicious.

MMOD - I've already stated what's bothering me about him. Buddying up to me vs MBL, nitpicking small subjects, while somewhat taking the fence on everything else. He's even unwilling to place a vote anywhere which furthers the fence-sitting perception of him that I have. He also seems to be half-heartedly defending Pooky (his fellow lurker).

Pooky - What can I say? I tried to give Pooky the benefit of the doubt because he's Pooky and even if people don't like it, that's how I am about him. HOWEVER, His Dr. House post screamed Pooky-scum to me and I would've been happy to keep my vote on Pooky (and continuing to pressure him) if it weren't for MBL derailing me with his craptastic "You're bluemonick's scumbuddy!' attack. (BTW, MBL when you're proven wrong on that I'm going to laugh my ass off at you for being suckered by an idiot like bluemonick the way you have been.) Anyways, I'm not impressed with what he's come up with since. It doesn't seem like Pooky's trying to find scum. He refuses to answer my questions because he wants MBL to ask, which is just freakin' lame and scummy.

Max/LML/STD - The only change since last time is that STD is posting. STD came in and gave a list of who he thought was suspicious and why. His main suspicion, mathcam, seemed to be based on nitpicking something that mathcam brought up about his own predecessor. He also nitpicked Yos's statement about offices having items, which I think is ridiculous. Since then he appears to be going with what looks popular and won't get him in trouble.

MoS - I'm not trusting MoS. This is primarily because of how the BJ thing came out. His behavior -appears- to be pro-town scumhunting, but I'm worried that it's an appearance and not true. The prime thing about him though ties into mathcam. I expect that if one is scum, so is the other. Basically, MoS pushed me specifically about BJ at a time where both BJ and InHim were being run up simulateously. I was the third person in our nightalk group so it seems a little convenient that the push on me about BJ came at that exact time. However, MoS couldn't have known about the connection between the three of us without another source, which would be mathcam.

mathcam - I have been back and forth about him all game. He doesn't come off as scummy to me, but I suppose that's part of mathcam being mathcam. The above concern having to do with MoS hasn't left my mind though and like STD, mathcam seems to be happy to go with what's popular and easy and will probably avoid conflict with others. A point in mathcam's favor is that he attempted to diffuse the argument between me and MBL, which I have a difficult time seeing scum do if indeed me and MBL are two townies at each other's throats.

Today, I'm most inclined to vote for any one of the top four people in this list because while I'm suspicious of the other three, it's not enough for me to want to lynch any of them and especially in the case with MoS, I'd hate to be wrong because if he is town, he's one of the few people actually sticking his neck out and putting some effort into this game.

What I want to know is if mathcam, MBL, and STD all think Fuldu is suspicious and a probable candidate for being scum, why have not one of you voted for him and in STD and mathcam's cases adopted what I see as 'easier' wagons. Cesspit and MMOD to be exact. Anyways, watch, you can do it, just like this.

unvote; vote: Fuldu

There. I've caught scum for the day. Go me. Oh wait, didn't I start there before MBL's began his assult on me? I did! Imagine that.

[ibaesha]

You're awfully defensive.

It has nothing at all to do with you being on my ass all day, I bet. Perhaps you should try another approach.

[ibaesha]

The Jack Quinn office is not a vig office. It's a no ability office. There is a desk and a chair, nothing else.

[ibaesha]

MBL: armlx already claimed it. Apparently you and others missed it. I was clarifying. I definately didn't say anything that wasn't already in the thread. Pay attention, all of you.

[ibaesha]

So why does Fuldu only have one vote again? I'm curious since 4 people besides me have stated suspicions but not one of them have followed up on it with a vote or any other kind of pressure.

mathcam: Easier to wagon other people?
STD: Aren't you just waffling a bit much?
Pooky: Care to put your vote where your mouth is?
MBL: Would rather lynch Pooky?

This is how things look to me.

Or I could've said:

Why isn't Fuldu lynched yet?

[ibaesha]

Still liking my Fuldu vote.

[ibaesha]

Hello?

[ibaesha]

I can't remember what I posted before, so I'll have to think on that later when my midterm tonight is over.

Promises, promises.

[ibaesha]

Pretty obvious she hasn't read your past posts.

[ibaesha]

Still wanting to lynch Fuldu, but I could settle for Uraj.

I won't be able to post much in the next week as I'm out of town on a family emergency.