DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[ToastyToast]

AMERICA!

/confirm

After some consideration I agree with Magua

[ToastyToast]

IF the phases are skipped, I'm pretty sure everyone immediately receives the "in-between" powers

[ToastyToast]

If the phases are skipped, I'm pretty sure everyone immediately receives the "in-between" powers

Which includes an SK's automatic choice of a troop (they get two troops, and 1 kill)

[ToastyToast]

apparently I double posted...

Going directly to DEFCON 1 is WAY more unpredictable compared to going through every phase. I just believe that taking it slow will make all nukes more accurate in the long run. Charging head-first into a war isn't a good idea from a military standpoint, and this shouldn't be any different.

[ToastyToast]

Mafia's been down for me for quite a while.

Just makin' it MORE official

I am not in favor of Total War

, information is always key

[ToastyToast]

@Hinduragi: Can't inform you about Defcon 2, but stealing abilities from them is definately something to think about. Taking away submarine or bulletproof could hurt them a lot.

[ToastyToast]

Useless for town:
Eavesdrop: Possible eavesdropper
Counterintelligence: Framer+Godfather ability (Plus one night to communicate normally)

Its my understanding that Eavsdrop was responsible for most of the correct lynches in the last DEFCON. The person who selects it has to be confident in their abilities, though. Counterintelligence is useful in that it takes the power away from scum.

[ToastyToast]

[quote="Magister Ludi"]Also, am I right in my assumption that there is only one of these roles going to be in the game total? Only one battleship, fighter, etc?[quote]
yessir

[ToastyToast]

Ya'all need to turn in your roles so I can scumhunt based on something other than set-up plans.

[ToastyToast]

@Vi: I don't find any cases to be based on sufficient information thus far.

[ToastyToast]

This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums.

For showing a distaste in poor arguments. lolk

[ToastyToast]

Not quite. I just think the cases being made are based on...nulltells.

I have a townread on Magua (ooba mentioned meta, however, which means I'm goin' to have to look), LLD and inhim are null, I have no idea wtf hez is talking about, and spyreX seems normal.

Also, I haven't really gotten into this game yet, which is why I want to get to DEFCON 3 (more action)

This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums.

For showing a distaste in poor arguments. lolk

QUADZ IS THAT YOU? QUADZ?

quadz is awesome, but no.

[ToastyToast]

So Pooky is the InternetStranger of this game you say? The hells' with that generation...I'm late to the party. Scum of course are afraid of nukes flying around because they care about their own survival. I WOULD KNOW BECAUSE IVE BEEN THERE AND IVE FELT THAT FEAR>
BUT THIS TIME IM TOWN GLORIOUS GLORIOUS AMERICAN TOWN, FINALLY. We can crack this game from the first 3 pages.AV is scum again. Ooba is town. SpyreX is town. Pooky is town. Hinduragi is town. Master Luigi is town. Magua is SCUMZ and for the nuke furnace. Vi and RC too. FOR THE BLOOD GOD, throw Regfan in there too for lying straight up in thread. InHim is town. Toogeloo is maybe. Gamma is town. Oh yeah Magua really IS scum. D1 lynchworthy scum? WHOS WITH ME Oh man AV's fighting for that rope though.. fightin HARD Zhero comes out of left field to drop scumtells though, MUCH APPRECIATED I said ooba was town already right? Lol Vi l2interact with buddies naturall AGM is FAIL for allowing a single scumbag to deny the rest of us a glorious game.1

Reasons for being "on the fence":
1)^^Why? oh thats right, there aren't enough posts in the game to figure that much out already.

2)

I want Hez dead before he has a chance to kill Gamma.

No worries it will be you before Gamma. That should afford me an extra day. =D

OMGUS isn't a case

3)

I'll also make a scum team call out so that it can be compared post game (if you're town that is) ..

Mafia

gorilla Vi SpyreX Magua - Mystery Player- Maybe (ToastyToast)

SK

PookyTheMagicalBear

Seems like you just randomized the playerlist

4)

Nooot in favor of a Magua d1 death. I'd say he can die later if he doesn't go from setup stuff->good contentz but that applies to a lot of players at this point.
Hez and Zhero and RedCoyote can all die though.

Where did RedCoyote come from?

5)

Lld can die for their reads being a detriment to town.

In other words, I called you scummy, so I can die?

two players going in a cycle of OMGUS. At least LLD mentioned posts, but its still a stretch. Why is she asked to give reasons, and no one else?

In conclusion, THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO CASES. The only way I am on the fence right now is: whose being dumb and whose being scum?

[ToastyToast]

Ohh snap Reg may be town.

Can you back this up? Toasty seems to be one of those perennial players scum like to latch onto in efforts to mislynch.

See sig. He's for nukin' not for lynchin but seriously now.

Yet another great explanation by SpyreX

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, would you mind giving me a read (or even sentence or two) on the following players:
Reg Swift Socio
I'm interested in your thoughts, and there is no reason to wait until DEFCON 3 to hear them.

Regfan: He was relatively...distanced from the setup discussions, but I do find his recent list to be protown. If I have any questions for him it would be:
Why is Socio a higher suspect for you than both LLD and Toog, if you have no posts to go off of? Also, what about my combination of scummy and townie posts places me in the scum list when compared to those of Dana and Ooba?

Other than those concerns, Reg is leaning town. I've played a game with him in which he was scum, so I'm gonna do a meta check once I stop being lazy.

Swift: I'm not a fan (but he's totes null)
1) The whole total war is fun thing. He seems to have a joking attitude towards it, so I can't tell if he legitimately just wants to nuke everyone. Also, "fun" isn't exactly a good reason from a town-winning standpoint.

2)Convo with Mina. Calls her town, saying scumMina wouldn't try to break the game or think about setup spec. Then calls her scum and says his townread on her was a trap. My gut is telling me that this wasn't actually some gambit, as he is suggesting.

(it was pretty obviously a fucking joke, I'm not going to change my town read on her just because she thinks I should, in fact since she didn't even see why she was a town read in the first place, idc)

Seriously, stop changing your mind if you want

stop trying to discredit me by saying my posts aren't serious. what do you think of my points?

This to happen.

3) Faraday knows me from skypemafia. Find it strange that they compare me to quadz (srsly, sign your sig its confusing), who seems to get me lynched whenever I'm scum.

Socio: No good reasons for his suspions. ISO #1-4 are all irrelevant, then he says Magua is scum. I think he's just sheeping SCREAMINGDEATH. He's making very little input, just calling people scumz. I would actually say his attitude thus far makes him the scummiest of the three. Significantly more reasoning is needed behind his actions.

So,
Regfan is town
Swift Justice is null (a lot of my problems with him aren't necessarily scummy, but I don't like his play)
Socio is scummy, he seems all over the place, is under the radar, doesn't support his reads with evidence.

[ToastyToast]

I don't have a read on you.

We

disagree on some setup strategy (whether Total War was a good idea, whether Airbase should be on town lists) but you haven't really expressed any strong reads one way or the other on anyone.

Im either asking something completely offtopic or considering a possible slip. Whose "We"? Teh scumbuddies?

[ToastyToast]

*self-facepalm*

[ToastyToast]

Mkay catch-up post

Have a solid town-read on Hinduragi now. I disagree with Dana-scum, but Hez and IS are definite possibilities

IS is American, he hates euro cowards as much as I do.
All these people talking crap out their ass about scum/town is annoying me.
Scumlists already? Really?Whatever. I'm gonna get myself a nuke and cap some euros

Hmmm. To all who gave me crap about not having solid reads yet….why was this post ignored?

But I have been known on occasion to be a shining beacon of towniness to make the god-fearing scums shit themselves and deal with me.

lolbutnotinthisgame

Socio: "This just in: Toasty is now high ranking scums."
Can you back this up?

Yes I can.

Aaaaand you don’t back it up. Did you change your mind?

IS enters. I find this post funny (in a fishy kind-of-way, too) because 1) He doesn’t condone socialist scum, he condones socialist “weenie” scum. This and the addition of “communist scum” suggest that whilst all communist scum a
re bad, only the weenie socialists are bad.
2)He never calls himself a Freedom Loving American.

In other words, I feel like this post is completely manufactured, complete with a few white lies.

Now for the RedCoyote wall. He’s null for me after this.

This is solid. I agree. At first I thought this was a bad idea, but, after reading this, Magua has convinced me.

You keep changing your mind on the Fail Safe thing, do you suggest going for it or no?

Ya'all need to turn in your roles so I can scumhunt based on something other than set-up plans.

You're scumhunting?

Slowly and quietly. I’m trying not to rush in with my reads like I did in Dynasty Warriors.

Since you're falling right into their trap (PROTIP: There's no way you can talk your way out of this and look good, Toast. You'll only look worse and worse or, by some miracle, stay at the same level of "willing to lynch, even if not the favorite".), you might as well elaborate on why it isn't you haven't been able to get into this game. I see you haven't casted a hypothetical vote. I see you haven't address a number of serious proposals and allegations (Magua's lynch trading, Mina's scumminess, SCD's list, Kat's proposal, etc etc).

There are a few reasons. 1) I feel lost amongst all this speculation, and for the most part find speculation to be completely null. 2) There are a TON of active players in this game, which is good but also gives me this “what else is there to say feeling.” 3)I like the concept of the game (which is why I joined), but have very limited flavor knowledge 4) I just want to get to DEFCON 3

You know what, dana? You still suffer from the same issue I had with you from the very first game I remember playing with you. You're far too self-interested. Anything that's not about you is put on the backburner while you focus solely on what concerns you. That level of self-interest is unfitting of a town player, frankly. This is why I see you as scum. This is why I see you as scum a majority of the times I play against you.

I don’t like this. If you think dana is ALWAYS too self-interested, then self-interested playstyle from dana should be null, not scummy. Comes off as if you are uncommitted to your position on him.

In no particular order:
Best lynches = dana, Hez, ML
Better lynches = SDC, SJ, Pooky
Good lynches = gorilla, Reg, AV, Toogeloo, Mina, inHim, Magua
Be more readable = Vi, MoI, Kat, IS
Best townies = Gamma, Hindu, Spy, Toast, ooba, SP, LL
A couple of very debatable names that I struggled to put in the spots they're at (especially Magua, LL, and Mina), but this is my honest assessment so far. My list is also already in.

Of your reads, who is your strongest scum read and who is your strongest town read?

SDC is probTown. In DEFCON 2.0 Fate wanted AirBase as his highest priority, and didn't gogo gambitzz for it. He just stayed quiet and plotted for it in the QT. Hence, reading him as town here, hence let him have AirBase.

You do understand that its much more pro-town to not “give” a role to anyone? If scum KNOWS SDC has airbase, it will change the game slightly when compared to them not knowing anything at all.

I don't think that really matters at this point anymore though.

self-defeatist attitude is a bad attitude. Especially when there’s like, not even voting yet.

I will have nukes pointed your way, SDC. I will be watching you.

I declare this to be OMGUS

All it takes is ONE TOWNIE to go "HERP DERP I REFUSE YOUR PLANZ" and then all the SCUM have townies to BLEND IN with and have EXCUSES for why they put it at #1 (oh durr everyone was doin it...)

Disagreements are sort of the point of mafia as town…if it makes you feel any better, I think Air base is a lame power. I’d rather have teh nukes.

Hm, idk what to think about the RC-AV banter. Its lacking substance.

I’m disappointed by Magna’s catch-up post. Where’s my obvtown cop buddy from superhero?

We could compare dick sizes but that's a waste of time.

nts nts nts

SpyreX is stil being…random

Just got lost in SDC’s #475. What am I supporting?

Also to all you jokers out there, you guys do realize that SDC, by taking airbase, are already SIGNING A PACT TO DIE before MYLO right? They themselves have offered to die before then. I don't see scum doing this, MEANING THEY ARE TOWN.

I do have a town-read on SDC, but not based on this. Scum would be very attracted to the “nuke-proof” idea. It also all depends on how the game plays out to see if someone who is supposed to die b4 MYLO ACTUALLY dies before MYLO

That was tiring…
So, some concluding statements:
SDC has a lot of angst but is town
MoI is not obvtown and therefore a suspect
IS, Hez, and Socio are all scummy
Im keeping an eye on SpyreX, Swift Justice, and gorilla (who I’ve ignored in above post but find him to be too passive/neutral on everything)
RC’s post is not enough for me to move him into town, primarily because we have yet to see if his play keeps up.

[ToastyToast]

I'm going to kick ass and take names. This is probly going to lead me dying in some glorious fashion after

toasting

some scumbags.. if they let me live long enough to use my nuke. This is not exactly conducive to helping my team win if I'm scum.

Please don't turn me into an adjective. I feel like I'm being used.

[ToastyToast]

Please don't turn me into an

adjective

verb. I feel like I'm being used.

...I think this is my second facepalm, correct?

[ToastyToast]

Vote:IS

[ToastyToast]

@SpyreX: You've been vocal about your opinion on Hez, what do you think about the counter-wagon (AV)?

In fact, I myself have said very little about AV. It seems a lot of people are like "OMG THIS IS SCUM META," but I haven't actually finished a game with him in it, so I don't like to rely on it completely.
My biggest problem with AV atm is this "OH WOE IS ME!" attitude he's giving off. Its just a matter of deciding between upset scum or pissed off town.

I am liking Mina a lot now. In Defcon 5 and 4 she was really only half-present, but she's taken a very convincing stance on AV

PEDIT: I hope that isn't your real reason for voting IS, Vi

[ToastyToast]

I'm trying to find it. There's a possibility I'm confusing myself due to multiple [redacted]

[ToastyToast]

Agreed. One of them is using meta to their advantage.
Vote: AurorusVox

saw this and misinterpreted it.

VOTE: AurorusVox
FOS: Anyone voting for someone other than AurorusVox
It is incredible how easy he is to read.

[ToastyToast]

@AV: would you plz link me a game with you as scum?

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.

Which is exactly what INTERNET STRANGER IS DOING.
I still don't like you using this as a defense. The incentive for scum to talk is to stay around. This "im not lurking, so im not scum" thing is bad.

Toog, Counterintelligence was your #1 choice, yes?

yes

Toog is town

That's two things.

lol

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p3121742 <--- unless otherwise noted (such as you Toasty) this pretty much stands.
Zhero was a bastard?

So I can assume that you are more confident in your Hez-read. Thank you.

Fake contribution is the rare scumtell that actually works.

So true. But one question: do you consider the setup speculation/role selection process to be fake contributions? I feel it WAS a necessary part of this type of game.

[ToastyToast]

I'm failing to see where all these

"Toog taking CI = town"

reads are coming from.

Scum saying that would be trapping themselves.

[ToastyToast]

I'm failing to see where all these

"Toog taking CI = town"

reads are coming from.

Scum saying that would be trapping themselves.

Interesting.

That said, Toog's claim looks townish, both because the execution is townish, and because it's too bold a move for scum after Katsuki's auto-nuke dictate--particularly since Eavesdrop could out them if it doesn't get results one night.

To clear that up

[ToastyToast]

Anyone who wants to lynch me or IS is obviously a scumbag or euro sympathizer that is cowering in fear of our wellpointed nuclear weapons.

What about IS strikes you as town? I notice that you took on a similar guise as soon as IS entered with the whole "euro sympathizer" thing. What made you change your posting?

[ToastyToast]

Anyone who wants to lynch me or IS is obviously a scumbag or euro sympathizer that is cowering in fear of our wellpointed nuclear weapons.

What about IS strikes you as town? I notice that you took on a similar guise as soon as IS entered with the whole "euro sympathizer" thing. What made you change your posting?

Ugh triple post. The whole AMERICA FUK YEA thing was there already, but you seemed to immediately flock to IS' playing style.

[ToastyToast]

Hey ya'al I've been gone for over a day, so I have a lot to catch up on. Expect a catch-up post of sorts later.

[ToastyToast]

The only noticeable difference I see in AV’s scum meta as opposed to town meta (this is from skimming) is post length. As town, he tends to be more descriptive and spend more time making wall posts. As scum, the posts average to be around two paragraphs. That’s same length is being utilized in this game.

However, this is nowhere near enough to warrant a vote.

I’m just going to start at RC’s post, and go from there.

At this point either ML or AV would be my strongest scumreads. My strongest townread is probably SP.

I don’t understand how SP is your STRONGEST town-read. Feels off. Scum-buddy of RC is more likely ML than AV, given the vote choice.

This is precisely what I was thinking when reading that post. AV, my poor AV, has got to eat the first lynch this game, I'm afraid.

…Maybe not. I don’t like this, for it both appeals to a player and suggests that AV is a mislynch waiting (poor AV, I’m afraid, etc.) to happen.

For such a long post, it actually doesn’t have that much content. I didn’t see much of anything about dana, and yet you put it as the second-most favored lynched. Similarly, most of your posts about AV are along the lines of “Awww, poor AV, it’s a shame you muse die today!” He attacks IS more than his actual scumreads.

You know what pisses me off? I posted a pretty damning piece on the entire AV wagon and it gets ignored.

whelp there are a lot of really long posts atm, its easy to miss things.

But why aren’t Sociopath, Swift Justice, SDC or any number of normally prolific posters who aren’t lighting up the boards suspect in your eyes? Why is Internet Stranger the only one you mention?

because I already suspect IS. IS had provided the least amount of informative content, which is my main problem with him. Its just been “AMERICA” and not real scumhunting. His newer posts are much better.

@Everyone: If we could make the first lynch a competition between dana and AV, I think we'd be off to such a good start. Both of these lynches are based on very solid ground at this point. Hez, well, not so much.

Its pretty obvious that AV has considerably more suspicion on him. Also, this is the first day. Why in the world would choosing from two suspects only be a good idea? From a numbers perspective, its much better to have a larger lynching pool in this situation.

Also, don’t see any strong connection b/w dana and AV. What MoI said.

Come DEFCON 1, the socialists will pay.

Do you think EVERYONE is socialist? Also, I’m curious why you focused on Vi’s vote and called it scummy but didn’t even mention mine.

Given the fact that I think both dana and AV have a good chance at being scum, then it's more likely that I'm right about one of those predictions than it is if I advocated, say, Hez, who I do not consider to have a greater chance at being scum (over dana or AV).

This doesn’t make me feel good. Like, I shivered when I read it.

Mmm, this is a bit frustrating now because I see where y'all are coming from. I wasn't intending to pull any sort of trick. I, uh, I think I'm being a little too analytical and distant for my own good here. I think I'll just stop talking for a while.

Sounds like your mocking AV. Didn’t you attack him for his “do you want me to shut-up” post?

OMG that was only like two pages WTF I’m tired.

Ooba’s vote is…random, unexpected.

Today happens to be Read DEFCON Day, so I'm doing that now and continuing when I come back home. Hold me to this, etc.

Orly? ME TOO. Is it strange that I’m getting great town-vibes from Equinox but scum-vibes from Faraday? Torn hydra is torn.

i'm not reading the thread but she need to die.

Yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone was torn.

Not a single person has even commented on my opinion of SocioPath since I voted him? Is he not worth people's time, and my opinion mean very little, to at least comment on the case I posted? His content is still fluffy. There is nothing there, and I imagine we won't see him again with anything remarkable for some time.

Yeah, its fluffy. I have a null on Sociopath, so its more of an issue of I find many other people scummier. Its also one bad quality when compared to suspects with multiple bad qualities.

This is bad reasoning. If you think someone is playing in a scummy manner (as Socio is in fact doing), you don't pass it up or fail to call them out on it. You try and push the wagon. The fact that you also consider him acting in a scummy manner, but not worth lynching, but nukeable, is not a stance I understand or expect to come from a town point of view.

hmm I read MoI’s post differently. I think he was saying that even if SP is scummy, the chance of him getting lynched today is very small because of where the focus is. Similarly, an IS lynch is very unlikely because there were only two votes on him. Also, people who are “in-the-line-of-fire” scummy are much more likely to be lynched than “under-the-radar” scummy. SP is more of a likely nuke target than someone to use up a lynch on.

AV’s hop on the RC wagon is predictable given that he’s very much underpressure.

Swift Justice’s giant post. INSERT URL HERE TOASTIn addition to the funny bird, this post has appeased me for now. I agree with most of his reads (except for Magna and IS, I would switch the two) If it doesn’t keep up, however, my opinions on Faraday will likely take over again. Seriously, I think Swift Justice either as dissociative identity disorder or AGM forgot that they were in the same slot and sent 2 rolePM’s

If I've left you out, I have no idea who the heck you are, and I expect to acquaint myself when I read the first 20 pages or so of game. If, after that, I still don't know who you are, I'm nuking you, Faraday fervor be damned.

My one problem. How did you manage to leave out LLD in your reads, then talk about her right after. She didn’t even make it to limbo?

HezLucky needs nuking, I think, but I'll need to reread him also, particularly his later posts when the momentum moves off him and onto RedCoyote.

You sound unconfident + 5.

I have to pee really bad.

Well, then Equinox comes and posts up ins. Re: RC saying he could be wrong - definitely agree that is not the scum part of this equation. It is that he claims that while not providing a reasonable justification for bumping AV down/moving dana up than "Competing wagons are good."

This

One of those lurker easily bussed clowns among Dana, Toasty, Gorilla

HOWS THAT FOR LURKING, YO.

And so, my final decision is….
drumroll plz

Unvote:Vote:RedCoyote.

Come on down! (to the gallows)

[ToastyToast]

thats L-1

[ToastyToast]

I'm shocked that you're lynchbait in games.
Do you think RC is more likely to be scum than AV?

I do. When we were in Dynasty Warriors mafia, RC wrote a very convincing post about myself and other scumspects. People thought he was scum regardless and Vi killed him. Turns out he was a death miller.
In this case, NONE of RC's cases were strong. And now he plans to...lurk out? its poor play
AV, on the other hand, came under suspicion right out of the gate. He tried his best to defend, and, even when it seemed like he was giving up, he came back again.

RC had a scummy reaction to his wagon and AV had a town reaction

I wasn't seeing the AV case when it first started, and catching-up to the thread, my opinion has pretty much stayed that way.

[ToastyToast]

Um, no. I thought RC was town in that game. He thought I was scum. Then he was killed, flipped a death miller, and I got a ton of suspicion on me for calling him town. Then I got lynched and flipped town. 'twas a terrible D1

[ToastyToast]

Also, I thought I was putting him @ L-2. Missed SDC's vote.

[ToastyToast]

...this sounds nothing like the Toast I know. How many games have you played with AurorusVox, Toasty?

Sorry? I have not been in any completed games with AV, but I have followed quite a few.

I examined about 4 (2 town and 2 scum) games to see if this was really AV's scum meta

SpyreX death points a little TOO much to HezLucky, tbh. SpyreX wasn't like OMGSOTOWN.

[ToastyToast]

The kill was a terrorist kill, not a scumkill. So yeah it can be terrorist trying to put Hez in the spotlight or Hez could just BE the terrorist but it says absolutely nothing about whether Hez is european or not.

Its the perfect WIFOM kill. Realized it was terrorist only after I posted that O.o

[ToastyToast]

@Gamma:

Not scum with Hez
AV SpyreX (he's actually leaning hard town but this category was lonely)

Do you still believe this? Why can't AV be scum with Hez?

[ToastyToast]

Did everyone just ignore what I had to say about Gorilla?

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

@Hez: My case on IS was short because it was based on a lack of content. That is no joke, and I don't know why you think it is. Your last post made me , especially when you were calling SpyreX scum.

AV's posts today aren't getting any better.

[ToastyToast]

(Equinox)

Other people are scummier.

You do not appear to have a vote.

Vote:AV

. thats L-2 I think. Wasn't sure how many votes were down/too lazy to do a vote count.

[ToastyToast]

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.

Actually this is a really good point, but I think there's something more interesting at stake here. LLD proposes that Gorilla is the SK, and Toasty agrees...Killing the SK reduces NKs by one. So, Toasty, why aren't you voting Gorilla? Do you prefer the cool comfort of having nine other people on the wagon with you, to keep you under the radar a little more?

I have to catch up (yeah, I've been lurking a bit. Got three new games O.o). I'll answer this tho. I think gorilla is scummy, but not necessarily SK. His play is very passive, and he sort of goes with the flow.

AV, I currently think you are scum because of 1)how quickly you agreed with the RedCayote wagon, 2) emotional defense (WHAT CAN I DO? ) 3)Meta check
Then, in D2 4) Calls IS town, then suggests people should move their votes to IS "if they think he's scummier." In my opinion, trying to get votes of of oneself in favor for votes on one of your town reads...the survival mentality there is way to strong. 5) Calls gorilla scum but doesn't clearly explain why. Also, another hop as soon as

a strong town read

mentions their suspicions.

I do think the votes based on the sub comment are stupid.

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

aaaand not following up on a response is inherently scummy?

[ToastyToast]

5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.

Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless, and should not be lynched today.
I have pledged my allegiance to the American people and will do all in my power to destroy those European pansy-ass lily-livered coward-bitch-suckling bastards.

Oh. So you want to lynch town? lolk

[ToastyToast]

^^You should comment more too, Socio.

Also, I will respond to AV's defense of my post tomorrow. It made include some Argumentation Skills 101

[ToastyToast]

1) Um. So what about EVERYONE ELSE that voted him before me? Let's not even mention that I had additional reasons along with my vote other than just Baa.

Did your mother ever tell you that it was wrong to point at everyone else when you yourself are at fault. "Everybody else was doing it" is not a great defense for drug attics, and its not a great defense in mafia either. You did not have a lot of reasons. I gave reasons, MoI gave reasons, all my town reads gave reasons.

2) I honestly still don't know why most of the people Eon the wagon are voting for me. That comment was made out of frustration with that fact.

Your frustration came off as contrived. Its a matter of opinion that I can't really prove. I think you've played mafia long enough to know exactly what you have to do if town gets on your case.

3) If you want to talk Meta, I can present you with a bunch of games where I've not played like this as scum. Plus, Hindu Meta'd me and disagrees with your findings. As someone who has scummed it up with me, I don't think your meta argument overpowers his.

I read your games. One difference of opinion is not enough for me to be like "loliwasjk." My review of your meta suggests that if you are town, your play is subpar. In your town games, you do more than just defend yourself, and your attacks are significantly more descriptive.

4) Um again. I never said "people" should be voting IS. That whole thing was in the context of GG's half-AV half-IS voting bullshit.

Your survival instinct came out here.

Either IS is scummier than me and you should try to get him lynched rather than half-heartedly poking in my direction and throwing a vote in his direction; or I'm scummier than him and so why are you voting IS?

Regardless of if you have a town read on IS, your question is basically asking everyone who suspects IS to get off your back if they are voting him. This makes no sense. What's wrong with suspecting two people? Why can't you and IS be scum together? Not to mention your basically telling a player what they SHOULD be doing, with an attempt to influence them in a direction away from you.

5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.

Already pointed to this one.

Read that as: "Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless. I should not be lynched today"
Or if you prefer; "I'm not useless, unlike Gorilla, and I should not be lynched today"
Whatever permutation of that you prefer.

[/quote][/quote]
"Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless" is a supporting statement for your thesis "I should not be lynched today" no matter how you arrange the statement grammatically.

Thesis: I should not be lynched today
Supporting point 1: I'm not useless---irrelevant to alignment

not sufficient in proving thesis

Supporting point 2: Gammagooey's bullshit--you're allowed to suspect 2 people

not sufficient in proving thesis

Supporting point 3: This is not my meta--if you know you're meta, you can manipulate it. Also, one disagreement does not warrant a throw-away of my PoV

not sufficient in proving thesis

Supporting point 4: Idk why people are voting me--so prove them wrong? Be more town? Stop being so passive-aggressive? Get rid of your survival instinct? There's a lot you can do, even if you don't know exactly why people are voting you

not sufficient in proving thesis

Supporting point 5:Everyone else is doing it--do I even have to explain this?

not sufficient in proving thesis

In conclusion, your argument has no legs to stand on. None of these are reasons why you shouldn't be lynched. People, tell me, do any of AV's defenses sway you and say "he's town?"
In the mean time, I think I'll make some soft jabs at gorilla, because I'm allowed to have more than one suspect.

[ToastyToast]

weird. really weird. Is that really the only information you received? I find it highly unlikely, especially if they were throwning in "lets say random stuff just to throw them off posts." Odds are you would receive more than one post (isn't it like 15% success rate?)

[ToastyToast]

If I was misrepping you I wouldn't be asking you to clarify your statements.
point about IS is fair enough, I thought it was a stretch anyways. I still don't like the gorilla statement, regardless.
"everyone else is doing it" wasn't a misrep, I just should have explained it better. Using "look at everyone else" is not a proper defense for one's own actions.
so I'd say it was more like 3/5, meta being an opinion

I'm getting a mixed opinion about AV still. Mind's telling me SCUM and guts telling me NOOOOOO. I have problems with a lot of the people on the AV wagon, and gorilla isn't helping himself much. This is me telling ya'all that I have to decide between which of the two scum-reads I have is stronger.

@SJ and AV: do you regard gorilla's statement as a slip, or is it a bias based on your opinion of him prior to the claim? I can think of a lot of reasonable explanations for what he said. Interested to hear what you think the scum motivation is.

[ToastyToast]

hey toastytoast explain to me why you've got a strong town read on hindu, or did at least idk how many pages ago i read that.

That was a looong time ago. His posts were breaking the "let's speculate!" trend I saw in early game. He's drifted into null now that activity is up.
AV'd flip threw me off quite a bit, so I'm going to re-examine pplz.

@Magua: you missed the option of 3)scum have a code.

Gorilla should post any result he got immediately.

[ToastyToast]

okay, so I got really bored (I should go to sleep), so I decided to start my reviewing process. There are two other people I'm going to look at before deciding my vote, but here are my conclusions regarding suspect number 1: Sociopath. My other two suspects that I will be reviewing are revengeofWi (to check out a growing wagon and some ominous feelings) and regfan (because I completely forgot he existed on multiple occassions)

Here we go!

40: Pregame, he was all about total war. This is null.

184: Never follows up on the Magua scum thing

208: Mina suspicion starts small, builds up at 416, then doesn’t get mentioned again. Note that the Magua thing was in agreement with someone else, and a few people found Mina’s play to be odd early on, only to get off her back later.

279: What exactly is the difference between a “this is wrong” and a “this is currently wrong”?

417: lol @ calling the most useful thing Regfan has posted a scum claim. Never backed up his calling me scum, and quickly changed his mind. 496 is the closest we get

495: More banter with SDC. I can’t tell what it means—seems like he’s going after SDC without really calling him scum/being willing to vote him. The fight seems very much distance/a side note from the rest of what is going on

712: A lolk hop onto the AV wagon

715: Very true, but I think the fact that ppl found his scummy proves ppl weren’t “falling for it” (yeah, I know he flipped town)

764: Hops back to Regfan? Really? Did anything get added to your case other than “lolscumclaim?” Don’t understand how your single mention of regfan outweighs everything else you said about other people

894: Goes back to AV because of…his views on SK hunting? The note about Spy is odd

939: WIFOM/meta-manipulation

1004: MoI stuff…don’t know what to think of it. He once again switches back to AV in 1149. May have avoided RC lynch for town cred, only to bounce around different suspects D2. Something about his reasons/hopping comes off as artificial. Like everyone in this game is scum to him.

Conclusion:
Negatives: A lot of fluff and vote switching. His suspicions change rapidly. Out of his 5 votes, 3 of them were on AV. And yet he has mentioned Magua, TT, Regfan, SDC(?, random fights), Mina, LLD (?, doesn’t like her reads), MoI as scum. Likes to play to his “meta,” still hard to completely understand—very sporadic. SpyreX Wifom

Positives: Made some good points about RC, has remained consistent (well, for him, “consistent” is more like “say something random, vote someone random”)

The negatives outweigh the positives

Questions for Sociopath:
1) What about your self-ISO made you want to place a vote on Regfan?

2) You kept going back to AV. How sure were you that he was scum? Was there any particular reasons why we wanted to get off of the wagon in favor of someone else?

3)Any chance we can just get a list of your suspects? (wishful thinking)

Doing a RevengeofWi check tomorrow, but don't expect it right away. I have tennis to watch.

[ToastyToast]

The only problem I have with "the plan" is that one of the three people in "the plan" suggested it, and it happens to be the one who, out of the three, I have the smallest town read on.
Given that it looks like Revengeofwei and sociopath are going to get nuked, I'm going to look at regfan.

Also, MoI's nuke isn't an anti-town nuke. Lets wait and see what happens.

[ToastyToast]

Because I've been slow in gettin' that regfan info out....danakillsu

People should not be nuked today: Mina, Toogeloo, Pooky, MagisterLudi, Magua, Hinduragi (remove the nuke plz), Swift Justice
People who should be nuked/lynched: Sociopath, 'vengofwi, HezLucky
To be determined at a later date: Regfan, Gammagooey, gorilla
Sitting in nullsville: LLD, inHim, IS (leaning town), SDC (leaning town),
Completely reliant on the results of other events: MoI
Catching teh scumbags: Priceless

[ToastyToast]

lol @ people thinking toog is lying. There are ways to prove that.
seriously tho, like 4 more pages?!

[ToastyToast]

If regfan is scum, one of mina, ludi, TT, toog is scum with him. sorry if my notes are coming sporadically, massive headache atm.
Hindu, would you like me to clarify what I said?

[ToastyToast]

If regfan is scum, one of

mina,

ludi,

TT

,

toog

is scum with him. sorry if my notes are coming sporadically, massive headache atm.
Hindu, would you like me to clarify what I said?

<_<
>_>

The four people who he wants to avoid nuking. This is regardless of my PoV. Strike-throughs are my own opinion.

[ToastyToast]

People who should be nuked/lynched: Sociopath, 'vengofwi, HezLucky

It's too bad I'm obvtown.
What, exactly, has your contribution to the game been?

Wait. You think you're obvtown? You, who was a counter-wagon day1 and day2 for people who flipped town? BAHAHAHHAHA.
READ.

LLD and Hindu get townpoints for the code stuff. I'll try to help out, but no promises on how useful I'll be

hez, dana is still town.
MoI shouldn't get nuked even if socio flips town, socio death absolutely needed to happen today and scum would be more likely to hold onto theirs in case they got nuked and wanted to retaliate to avoid living obvtown.

Why? MoI is sitting on thin ice right now.

What are everyone's thoughts on the bussing comment? Having that revealed will likely make scum-team rethink things. In other words, we should keep in mind that scum may nuke scum/ be on scum wagon. Sociopath claiming submarine may link him to the message.

Really not liking Gamma's newfound reads. Pooky is scum? Hez and dana are town? what about there play is indicating this?

good, dana called off his nuke. Now thats worth some town points

Oh look, Ludi hopped off the regfan wagon after it started to gain support!

If either dana or Hindi is scum, the other is scum as well.

So if dana flips scum, then hindi is scum
If hindi is scum, then dana is scum
If either is town, the other is town? Or do you just not give a shit?

Okay, just to sort this out

Toogeloo is telling the truth about his claim

. Strikes me as some weird double-gambit b/w gamma and SP.

Everything SP after this moment sounds like a desperate scum. FDIFUHFURUFURH KILL SDC DJOFRFUHUDFH OMGUS DLKJFORIFHRUG DIE.....Maybe he's speaking in code. LLD, Hinduragi, can you tell me what he's going on about plz?

LLD is also scum that cracked the code imo.

what makes you come to this conclusion? The fact that it only worked for one?

Gamma is making me rethink revealing the above information.

And If I had ACTUALLY blocked Socio then why in the fuck would I claim not to when he claimed non-nuke, it's just fucking ASKING for him to claim fighter or radar or some shit and do exactly what he just pulled a second ago.

Gamma definitely wouldn't have lied about his target. Which assumes that SP is lying about something. I feel like i'm missing something tho (dam headache). also, how does it ask for socio to claim fighter/radar?

ludi-hez-regfan triple bus? there is scum somewhere in those three, and I don't think its just one. Especially given how weak their votes on each other are.

okay, i'm starting to see the angle at which LLD is coming from, but if you don't mind I would like you to pull off the nook on toogeloo until the flip. Then, if anyone else is available for teh nuking, they can do so based on the flip, or we can use it for the lynch.

Regfan's list of nuke targets gets a big EW. But, he reminded me of revengeofwi. The lack of ANY COMMENTS from a hydra means that nook is staying on.

One of {SDC,

Reg

, Toog} needs to be replaced with

Toasty

Socio on that scumlist,

Socio

.

FTFY
Actually, Socio can replace both SDC AND TOOG

SDC and IS are goodposting again. I also think SDC's whole "I know how SP plays" comes of as genuine.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, I was voting for gorilla, not Regfan. As far as I'm concerned, for being the lowest poster, Regfan should get a nuke.

sorry bout that, but i think you guys as scum together makes sense for other reasons. Primarily the similar want to reduce the playing field to about 4 obvtown players.

[ToastyToast]

Whats the problem to reducing the playing field to four really strong town reads?

We could be wrong? Yeah, its always possible, but I trust myself to at least reason out two or three other townies over the course of an entire game.

My problem with it is that you suggested yourself. And I didn't have you as a strong town read. Regfan's reasons are a bit more selfless, but he's basically trying to set EVERYTHING up, which I also have problems with. Quite simply, things change. With the toogeloo issue, hindu and SP's suspicions on me, Mina disappearing...its just not good to try to set up the entire game.

[ToastyToast]

SDC has said more in his limited posting than you have with your active posting. Your blowin hot air, what he's saying is genuine/legitimate.

[ToastyToast]

If gamma is scum, sp and hindu are town?
I'm getting confused....whose flip implies anothers allignment and why. This recent convo is hard to follow

[ToastyToast]

Can't wait till all these fuckin scum burn so we can get back to the REAL party

I lol'd

[ToastyToast]

(Equinox)
Hey, ToastyToast, if you had the power to vote, who would you vote and why?

I'm waiting of the nuke flips. Regfan is my scum-read that hasnt been nuked, and my MoI read will be largely influenced by the SP flip.

PEDIT: lol ok gamma is scum

[ToastyToast]

What happened to modkilling yourself?

Unvote; Vote: SDC

even after regfan's fail nuke?

Vote:Regfan

Ur reads are still bad (at least I agree on your final 3)

[ToastyToast]

@Hindu: early game your scum-reads were hez, dana, and IS, so the switch means at some point in time, your reads were shit.

Also don't see what they did to warrant the switch.

hez is...hez. Still makes no sense and bitches about everything

ah he's on ur nuke list
Yeah, dana recalled the nuke. but thats about all he did. I think you just don't want him to nook you again (but hey, no one wants to be nooked.
IS is more concerned with sounding American than anything else

Oh, and my biggest town reads are all on your nook list. Mina? Toogeloo? Dare I mention, myself? How in the world do you think they are more deserving of a nook than any of those 3? Its a good thing I think your three final ppl are all town or else I would be like "wait, our doc wants to protect THOSE ppl?"

Oh, and, for the record, pretty much everyone thought revengeofwei was scum. Gamma was obvscum right after that nook aimed for him. So, its not like those correct moves can all be contributed to your wonderful reads.

[ToastyToast]

Magua's list is sexy

[ToastyToast]

My interactions with revengeofwei(who I was going to make a case on but was then nuked), katsuki (who no one payed attention to) and gammagooey (who I thought was null until today's behavior). Right.

And I did mention your town list, so...

[ToastyToast]

@IS: I think your town. Stop bitching. I just don't thin your as town as Magua, Pooky, Mina, Toog. I'm not going to argue about my play or make a list of everything I've done in this game/

@Hindu: I'll drop it. I already acknowledged that I have no real problems with your final 3. But one question: the argument on me. How do you see y associations with the flipped scum? Is it the distancing argument or something else?

[ToastyToast]

ah man I've been gone all day. Tryin' to catch up

[ToastyToast]

I am announcing my intent to nuke one of you two if I have a nuke. I want Toasty to agree to the same, if he is the one with the nuke.

A hypothetical aye (that's what your asking for, right? but I don't understand the PoE)

[ToastyToast]

Unvote

[ToastyToast]

oh. I wasn't voting. LOL

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, answer this right now: Are you Fighters, yes or no?

Yes. Hence, I have no nook.

My choices were
1. Battleship (I get prot roles a lot)
2. Fighter (Thought it be something to take away from teh scum and still be somewhat useful as town)
3. Nook

N1 I checked toog
N2 I checked MoI

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, whats your read on Mina

Mod: I am voting for dana

I have a town read on her; Toog and Magua are the only 2 higher on my list of towntown.

[ToastyToast]

Hez needs to claim then, with the order of his choices

[ToastyToast]

Scum better kill me tonight because I'm nuking Mina tomorrow. She is Eurotrash scum.

Then again, if anyone else questions my American heritage, I'm going to nuke them first.

Pooky IS inHim final 3.

inHim, your content level is on par with Mina's and yet the town's read on her is much stronger than the read on you. Hence, you shouldn't be in the final 3

Pooky is town
IS....well, his recent post are making me less confident in my town read on him

[ToastyToast]

IS final one.

stop obvbuddying

[ToastyToast]

Why do I need to die? Because I don't trust you?

[ToastyToast]

No, because I don't trust you.

Then the feelings mutual. Glad we had this talk.

[ToastyToast]

@Hindu: I'm defensive in all my games. Its the only reason I didn't get lynched in Cowboy Bebop mafia; LLD and Fate can back me up on that

I explained why I found IS scummy pre-game, and took the vote off after he started posing real content other than the AMERICA stuff.

How did that surprise you?

SP never called me scum for that...SP just found me sketch in general

Your interpretations of those questions are crap. WHo were the two people involved in that little fight? Gamma and SP. sorry, but both were hard as hell to understand. Like "OMGONELINERRAGERAGERAGETROLOLOLOLPARTIESIMAROLEBLOCKERBUTNOTAROLBLOCKERKILLEVERYONE"

Also, my read on you is not a scum read, its a null read in which I detect someone trying to effect the flow of the game. I did think you were town, but then you stopped goodposting and your reads were off. I'm allowed to not trust someone who I originally thought was town.

Players I have a problem with: none in this game. Its more of a problem with your logic in this game.

[ToastyToast]

OMG OMG its a bear fight!!!!! suh cute!
(sry I had to)
I think Pooky has the better argument but toog is still town. Toog simply thought he had some sort of contradiction on Pooky that turned out to be nothing at all

[ToastyToast]

why don't you nuke a scumbag first before you talk about things that I do?

He can't. confirmed counter-intelligence by me

[ToastyToast]

why don't you nuke a scumbag first before you talk about things that I do?

He can't. confirmed counter-intelligence by me

[ToastyToast]

why don't you nuke a scumbag first before you talk about things that I do?

He can't. confirmed counter-intelligence by me

[ToastyToast]

wtf really sorry about that guys, my computer got all glitchy.

[ToastyToast]

Hm. I expected Fate to point to my crumb in this post

[ToastyToast]

4 down!

Fate, you're just asking to be nuked, aren't you?

[ToastyToast]

@ML: You also pushed for me, mina, and yourself at endgame. But Mina really does need to use her nuke because this is getting ridiculous

@Fate: Including Katsuki

[ToastyToast]

@ML: Well, based on your logic, if she's town she should nuke one of the two of us (it would give the most information). However, I'd be ok with a Fate, Hez, or dana nook as well. As such, I think we should lynch/nook within Fate, Hez, dana, and ML and go from there.

Bottom line is that she needs to make her own decision and take responsibility for it.

My final 3: Toog, gorilla, pooky

[ToastyToast]

Actually, she shouldn't nuke me at all, because thats a waste of a nuke. So I'm wondering why you think its good then to nuke you at all? What information would you dying produce to yourself?
I don't think at this point we should allow her to nuke whoever she wants, if she's scum as I think she if, it just gives her free reign to nuke a town player. Her nuke should effictively double as a second lynch.

You said yourself that the flipped scum wanted an ML, TT, and Mina final free. I think you're scummier than Mina, so if I think your logic has merit, then ML would be a great information-getter. Same with Gamma saying "Nook Toasty if he's in the final 3"

We could get similar benefits from nooking me, such as people who think IS and I are a scum-team.

@Hez: Your not obvtown. You were also a possible counter-lynch both D1 and D2. Get over it. Oh, and you have done nothing I've considered useful. Sooo yeah, you definitely don't deserve to be in any final 3

@ML: directing a nuke is scumtastic because 1)Not enough people agree with you on Mina being scum, and 2) who Mina nukes will add to determining her allignment

[ToastyToast]

@Hez: Your not obvtown. You were also a possible counter-lynch both D1 and D2. Get over it. Oh, and you have done nothing I've considered useful. Sooo yeah, you definitely don't deserve to be in any final 3

Explain why there are several people who DO consider me obvtown then.

lolwho? sure, people have townreads on you, but you haven't done much to deserve it. Neither has dana, for that matter.

And while you're at it, be careful because I'm not just vengeful in my role.

Is that a threat? Why the hell should I give a shit if people vote me because I think your scum? That's no reason to back off of a read. And I would nuke you for this right now if I could, even if that meant my own death.

[ToastyToast]

For the record, I'm not lynching Hez, ever. I have a strong read on him and I feel he's confirmed town.

What the hell has he done to warrant such a strong read? Does his minimal effort in this game just OOZE town?

[ToastyToast]

And while you're at it, be careful because I'm not just vengeful in my role.

Is that a threat? Why the hell should I give a shit if people vote me because I think your scum? That's no reason to back off of a read. And I would nuke you for this right now if I could, even if that meant my own death.

You have no idea how SCARED I AM.
Given that I have the fuckign FAIL SAFE.
Bring it. It's your funeral. I don't think you're town.

What do you think "even if that meant my own death" means?

[ToastyToast]

dana's on my nuke list, so I'm ok with that
Ludi is also on my nuke list, but which one would I rather lynch today?
dana is more likely to make it to endgame, as Ludi will end up nuked 2morrow anyways

SO, 2morrow:
The people who are nuked should be: HezLucky (by LLD suicide), TT (I'm being honest here. there is no way I would win in a 3 person Lylo situation, and it would lose town the game), Ludi, inHim, Fate

That would leave us with Hinduragi, IS, Pooky, Toog, Gorilla, and Mina
-the night kill, which will probably be one of Hindu or Toog.
If the game is still going on at this point:
Only one of IS/Pooky should be around by the end of the day (them as scumbuddies is possible);
Mina should be lynched
That would leave 4 ppl, plus a NK, and 3 person lylo would start.

We won't have to get to that point if my nuke choices are correct, which I think are reasonable choices on all accounts.

[ToastyToast]

Huh? That post is just insanity defined.

Vote: Toastytoast

Because I'm right? OK

[ToastyToast]

Hey Toasty, have you not been reading? LLD is self-claimed scum and will be nuked soon, how exactly is she going to nuke Hez then?

She'd die anyways and I think Hez is scum. So I don't give a shit.

[ToastyToast]

If Mina decides to nuke LLD (who I'm like 90% sure will flip town), then we lynch Ludi and make dana nuke Hez.

[ToastyToast]

I read everything. If LLD didn't keep her promise she'd be obvscum anyways and wouldn't be able to win. SO, in any situation, she's fucked if she's scum.

[ToastyToast]

If Mina decides to nuke LLD (who I'm like 90% sure will flip town), then we lynch Ludi and make dana nuke Hez.

Fine. Sorry I missed something

Vote:Ludi

[ToastyToast]

that wasn't so hard now, was it?

[ToastyToast]

Yeah, and its Ludi.

[ToastyToast]

YEah, I also said I should be nuked tomorrow. Idc about being nuked, I care about winning. I'm suggesting that one of those 4 is a likely scumbuddy of regfan. NOT TO MENTION YOU IGNORED MY FOLLOW UP POST, WHERE I SAID I THOUGHT IT WAS LUDI.

And if I buddied with you, trust me when I say it was COMPLETELY unintentional. I wouldn't buddy with someone I have a problem with.

If I'm going to be lynched, so be it. I don't give a fuck because I know I'll be right in the end and that my plan would have worked.

[ToastyToast]

Guess what? LLD said she should be nuked tomorrow too.

Difference: LLD knows who the last scum is. I wouldn't play against my wincon by asking to be lynched.

[ToastyToast]

If youre going to be nuked tomorrow, what difference does it make if youre lynched today?

It doesn't.

[ToastyToast]

If youre going to be nuked tomorrow, what difference does it make if youre lynched today?

It doesn't.

well, other than the fact that I get lynched enough, but I've never been nuked b4 and would like the experience.

[ToastyToast]

And if I was nuked I woudn't be enraged beyond belief. Why? because my death does not mean a loss for my side, and I'm confident that town will win.

Really, the only thing I get enraged about is when people vote me because "they don't like the way I said something" or "Well, if I were him..." or "his reasons for voting are bad." Especially because its those kind of statements that create an atmosphere where I cannot win an argument (if i'm not treated on the same level as another player, how can I expect to win in an argument?) Guess it'll just take time for people to realize that I'm not an idiot, and actually hunt pretty well.

And for those of you who say you would vote me twice. Too bad, mafia's a group effort and it doesn't matter how badly you want someone lynched--your going to be wrong a good part of the time when your ego is so inflated that you don't even look at another person's angle.

I could rant on and on about how the HezLucky-IS duo has done nothing but bitch about almost being policy lynched or talk about how "they're 4/7 in catching scum in this game" and how great America is. Seriously, even the trio of terror that is the screamers of Fate, Sociopath, and Reck were less infuriating than you two.

Mkay, I'm done. It was fun being considered obvtown for once.

[ToastyToast]

1. You again call for me being nuked, despite the fact you've many times acknolwedged and recognized I can not be nuked.
2. You say dana is the best lynch out of nowhere and agree with this, but then turn around and vote me a few posts later.
3. You fail to realize that LLD is scum and going to die within days, she isn't nuking anyone tomorrow.
4. You call for yourself to be nuked.
5. Call is/pooky scumbuddies depsite there being only one scum.
6. Mina has now nuked scum, so I'm not sure how much I want that lynch any more.
7. Some long convoluted endgame scenario which makes no sense.

1. Nuked, lynched, whatever. It doesn't matter what word I use as long as it ensures that you die.
2. Can you nuke Hezlucky? No. So keeping dana alive only to make them suicide on HezLucky would get rid of two of my scum suspects (given that LLD won't be alive the next day) So lynching you--the other suspect--makes perfect sense
3. Yeah, I missed something. I also provided a backup plan
4. Yeah, so what? Today just proves that I wouldn't be able to win if in a situaition with 2 town and 1 scum. Why? Need I go back to the beginning of the game where Magua says that I tend to be a very easy scum target?
5. Yet another point made b4 I realized the LLD situation. Not to mention that not only has LLD not flipped (so I'm still allowed to speculate on the off-chance she actually flips town) but also I mentioned IS/Pooky as a possible scum team if and only if the other nukes failed to catch scum.
6. You don't think Mina could nuke her scumbuddy? You do realize how much town support she has, right?
7. Oh, it makes plenty of sense. see, you take the player list, and cross out the names when I say they should me nukes. Then, you take the remaining players, cross out people who are very likely night kills, and do the process over again! Oh, and most of my reads on that list MATCH WHAT EVERYONE IS ALREADY THINKING.

yet more verification that I'm getting lynched for my ideas rather than actual scum-tells.


PEDIT: LLD DIES EVEN IF SHE NUKES HEZ. I WANT HEZ TO DIE BECAUSE HE IS A SCUM READ, NOT OBVTOWN, SHOULD HAVE BEEN LYNCHED D1, AND, QUITE FRANKLY, ANNOYS ME.

@Fate: Thanks for the light buddying, but after that Fire Emblem failure, I get to call you annoying every once in while

@LLD: Thats referring to IS' arrogance about how great of a hunter he is for nailing 4 scum from a group of seven suspects.

People I've thought were scum: hez, cayote, AV, Regfan, gamma, 'vengeofwei, ludi
oh look! based on flips I have 3/5 reads correct thus far!

[ToastyToast]

send, NOT sent
Toasty's post isn't convincing me. Especially the "hunt pretty well" piece partly because he just proposed to let LLD go for Hez.

Lets see....I was lynched D1 in Dynasty Warriors because "my reads were bad." If my list was followed, I would have caught half the scum team, and a third party.

Cowboy Bebop, I was NK late, but town failed to listen to my advice and lynched obvtown LLD instead of obvscum AGM..

Need I go on? Don't even start the "well, he doesn't hunt well at all!" BS when you've never played a game with me before, and when you yourself haven't been right about everything. Whether or not you THINK I hunt pretty well says nothing about my alignment, but it DOES prove the fact that people make poor assumptions about my play simply because I disagree with them.

[ToastyToast]

Pooky
-
LLD's scum. Toasty's looking like a buddy. We aren't putting Toasty from L-2 to L-1 until it's been 24 hours since Mina nuked LLD.

I'm LLD's scumbuddy because I missed that she got nuked. Right. Because everyone knows calling someone town who is claimed scum is REALLY the way to go.

[ToastyToast]

You think my rage is scum rage? If it was scum rage wouldn't it be safe to assume that I would actually care about being killed. No, I only care about the reasons and the people on my wagon

Don't "oh, boohoo" me. I imagine myself punching you in the face, not cutting myself.

[ToastyToast]

After Fire Emblem I'm annoying?
I WAS SCUM you realize yes?

I didn't say you were annoying in this game. I was just using you as a comparison--someone who's loud and willing to piss people off in order to get what he thinks is correct vs. 2 players who are full of hot air.

[ToastyToast]

You enjoy provoking people, don't you?

[ToastyToast]

its would be between fate and dana

[ToastyToast]

Also, I don't have a scum-read on Mina, but feel that if she's in a final 3, the other 2 will likely turn on her.

[ToastyToast]

Statement 2 is correct. I'm willing to admit that--i'm frustrated by people who have more of an ego than I do. However, it doesn't mean I think you need to be dead b4 D5

What? At least I'm honest.

@Fate: Bro, you've been all "YAY PARTIES" for quite a while. Don't tell me you're obvtown

PEDIT: The regfan thing has 4 players on the list: ML, Mina, myself, and Toog. You asked me who, if ML and Mina aren't scum, the last scum is. I in no way think Toog is scum, and I know my own allignment. The two of us are on the top of my town list and as such I'd rather go for my other suspects than someone I have a strong read on

[ToastyToast]

I honestly have no clue why Toasty would even insinuate himself as a possible scum buddy to Regfan. Was that just a brain fart? No town would ever put themselves in that position, but maybe scum might just be stupid enough to do so.

Nope, I was just taking myself out of the picture. Based on my logic, I cannot eliminate myself as a possibility. I felt that Regfan pushing the end group was him trying to get one of his buddies to survive. I was one of the people he wanted living. As such, regardless of what I think, that group needed to be looked into by EVERYONE. Its not a brain fart. Its, "everyone need to look into this--who is the scummiest of the 4? Which one of these 4 is out of place?"

CHEEKY FUCKING SCUM

You called me a cheeky SK the last time you were scum.

[ToastyToast]

how do I get myself one of those party hats? I should switch to my old icon and put one on.

[ToastyToast]

IS is A PARTY POOPER

[ToastyToast]

CAN WE PLAY SOME PARTY GAMES~?

you should suicide and have a zombie party

[ToastyToast]

Hmm....A!

[ToastyToast]

My final order b4 I go to the party

TOWNTOWN

Toogeloo-"I is teh counterintelligence GUSY. Also, I'm a PANDA."

PookyTheMagicalBear-"Panda's aren't AMERICAN. LLD u have HAWT accent? YOU LIKE BEARS?"

gorilla-"djfiefexdjfifahdjfjkxnnidgnxkdjfiggx"

Hinduragi-"ZOMG GUSY i'm so smart everyone above me is confirmed town"

Mina-"Faraday loves me. Faraday's from Ireland. WORSHIP ME AS I NUKE THE OTHER WOMENZ!!"

Internet Stranger Zhero-"I'm full of myself. JUST LIKE MY COUNTRY!!!"

HezLucky-"DURR I'm teh most obvtown here with my VENGE-NUKES"

inHimshallibe-"Hey GUSY I have to tell you something. I haven't done ANYTHING yet!"

danakillsu-"NOW WAY, inHim, me either! Xcept for nuking teh PARTY-STARTER"

Fate Screaming Death Clan (Fate & xRECKONERx hydra) -"I LIKE THE WORD CHEEKY. IT REMINDS ME OF BUTTCHEEKS. NOW LET ME MANIPULATE YOU SOMEMORE WITH A EUROPEAN ACCENT"

Magister Ludi-"Hey GUSY, lets have a PARTY with three people, then nuke all of them xcept for myself. Then I'll be teh only one left YAY. Oh, and DEM NUKES don't work on me!"

LLD-"WHEEE TOASTY FAILED LETS VOTE HIM"

NUKEPARTY

GOT KICKED OUT OF TEH PARTY

TT-

[ToastyToast]

Toog is more town than any of them. Hez is in second, and Gorilla is clearly town.

How can my reads be bad if we agree with two out of three? UR a meanie

[ToastyToast]

If it makes you feel any better, you and dana should be switched on my list.

HEHE FATE CALLED ME COCKY I MUST'VE REACHED A NEW LEVEL

[ToastyToast]

2 out of what?

I have gorilla and toog in my final 3, too.

[ToastyToast]

hey, I'm all for learning from my play. I certainly could've gotten out of this inevitable lynch now that I look back on it. Buuutttt, once I enter bitch-mode its impossible to take it back.

[ToastyToast]

I don't HATE you, I just don't understand how people think you played obvtown in this game. And yeah, you pissed me off a bit. doesn't mean i'm going to blacklist you for it.

[ToastyToast]

I targeted toog n1 to verify his counterintelligence claim
N2 I was suspicious of MoI, and thought he might have a scummy power. Turns out it was a nuke.

[ToastyToast]

Wow. Toog was hands down the best choice I could have made. It would ensure he was telling the truth, so if he was ever caught using it he'd be screwed. I also could have checked it again to see if it was some sort of gambit (which is a possibility), and nearly everyone soft-claimed nuke, so yeah.

Fate, I'm allowed to be pissed when town as a whole falls for a trap like that.

[ToastyToast]

It obviously was a good decision given that people were bitching about how toog may have faked his claim earlier D3. so....yeah.

Tell me why I would have checked his claim as a scum-Fighter (yeah, yeah WIFOM i don't give a shit)

Also, you want to lynch me despite thinking I'm town, yet think I'm dumb for calling you scum?

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, what I think happened with your fighter is that you checked Katsuki on night one, found that he had a duplicate role as Gamma, and nightkilled him on night two. It explains the katsuki kill, considering no one was really suspecting him at all at that time.

Theory based on 0% fact and 100% "I don't want to die" stall attempt.

[ToastyToast]

Toasty, what I think happened with your fighter is that you checked Katsuki on night one, found that he had a duplicate role as Gamma, and nightkilled him on night two. It explains the katsuki kill, considering no one was really suspecting him at all at that time.

Theory based on 0% fact and 100% "I don't want to die" stall attempt.

Want to know what else would explain a Katsuki death? Oh wait. You said it yourself "no one was really suspecting him at all at that time."

[ToastyToast]

Its evident that not enough people trust you to keep you in the game. Not lynching you today would mean they have to lynch you 2morrow. That makes it a stall attempt.

thoughts shouldn't confirm people as scum. Its mere speculation and therefore I cannot defend against it other than point out that you have nothing but role-kill circumstances to back it up.

I understand that you would rather have me lynched than yourself, but can't I just say in response that "I think the scum team thought it would be hard to nuke katsuki, and her low content-level and ability to blend in without much suspicion made you (Ludi) send in the kill on her." ?

You can say whatever you want, but its a false conclusion.

PEDIT: What Hinduragi said.

[ToastyToast]

aww fate's schwasted

[ToastyToast]

Well, I think we all know what's going to happen to me today.
I checked Hindu, and (surprise!) he was battleship.
I still maintain that dana, inHim, Fate, and Hez should be nuked today.
Dana can nuke Hez.

I'd rather not suicide after I get nuked. I want an epic death.

[ToastyToast]

You'd prefer a mina, gorilla, hindu scum-list?
LOL

[ToastyToast]

@Hez:If ur town, its not a good idea to have you in endgame
If ur scum, its an even WORSE idea to have you in endgame
Dana should nuke you because he's low on my list and will probably be nuked regardless. It could be someone else, but I'd much rather have a scum read nuke than a town read

Don't worry, I'll be dead soon. And then you'll be disappointed and be nuked too.

@Fate: IS and pooky really only made sense to me as a scum-team, and there is only one person left. Would you have preferred me to include everyone's name in my last post? Doesn't change the point at all. Your attacking my scum reads, and yet we have the same town reads. Which, by process of elimination, means we agree on who needs to be nuked

[ToastyToast]

Actually, you are completely capable of doing so. Just sayin.

[ToastyToast]

Capable of killing my biggest fan?

Sure I COULD in that I had the ability to write is name on a PM and send it to AGM for who to kill, but WHY would I or what MOTIVE or how LIKELY would it be that I would do it as scum?

Exactly.

WIFOM. Duh.

[ToastyToast]

Anyone whose being treated as confirmed town would be a threat.

Besides, you could just try to lynch Hindu. Didn't you just say "Hindu should be killed for still being alive?" By hinting at it, your basically telling town to lynch the doctor, when scum who saw it as such a "big threat" would just kill him.

Hindu still has a possibility of being nuked (especially with the powerful town power not getting killed argument), and you just asked for exactly that. Toogeloo, on the other hand, had a strong town-read on him accross the board, and many people would have been shocked if someone tried to nuke him.

Regardless of my views on the Fire Emblem game (which I'm more upset about falling for rather than just the game. I should've seen through it), your play right now is scummy. This isn't OMGUS, this is: 1)You keep using WIFOM 2) You want the doctor dead 3) Your whole "LYNCHMEBUTNOCUZIMGONNABRAINWASHYOU" routine was ridiculous and is deserving of a nuke 4)Your basically defending yourself before someone attacks you.

[ToastyToast]

dana, you don't think someone else would've nuked me? Whatever, your still getting nuked today. Keeping Hez in a final 3 situation is risky. Don't let him be there.

[ToastyToast]

oh, and

Vote:dana

for not having the balls to nuke Hez. If he was town he would have helped us kill two birds with one stone.

[ToastyToast]

AGM plz write up a sexy-awesome-thrilling nuke scene for me

did you know this is the first game I've been considered obvtown? O.o its a great feeling....

Also, in no Hez-nuke, dana should still be nuked next. Especially because I'm flipping town.

[ToastyToast]

LOLFATEUMAD

[ToastyToast]

Well, I had fun. Wasn't nearly as pissed off about being nuked as I was about being lynched in Dynasty Warriors. I WANT TEH FLIPS SO I CAN HAS COOL ENDGAME CHAT

[ToastyToast]

WAITWUT

That last day had to be the longest and most frustrating day everr. Seeing Hez and Gorilla go at each other...I was all like NOOO BUT U WONNN