DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[HezLucky]

Remember everyone tomorrow we get nukes! You can satisfy your dumb agendas then. We have scum to lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is beyond ridiculous. We were trying to lynch AV yesterday and then people got sidetracked --- most likely scum led the sidetracking.

Now we are so close to lynching AV and then PEOPLE ARE STILL GETTING SIDETRACKED. Why hasn't AV been lynched yet? ARGH!

The thread has barely been open 48 hours? What’s so ridiculous about wanting to see EVERYONE contribute?

--

1. I'm voting for who I think is the SK. GG is different.
2. Well duh. That's why I'm on his ass. I know I'm town so that's why I'm pushing him on it.

1. Stating “that’s different” isn’t valid reasoning. But since you brought it up why do you think Socio is the Serial Killer?
2. What do you think of all the other players who have directly called you Town? Is GG the only scum in that pool in your opinion?

With RC's townflip, that just means that those players thought they could get an RC mislynch and save my demise for today. Don't let the Eurotrash get away with this!

So your premise is that scum, having you as Town very close to lynch decided instead shift the wagon away to Red to mislynch him first and leave you for today?

MoI: Now tell me why you're not on Hez' ass for wanting to end the day so quick, but you'll question my pressure on GG?

Oh this I find scummy as hell.

You post this 7 minutes after Hez’s 972 and assert I’m being inconsistently scummy for not attacking Hez for his ‘end the Day early’ post when I haven’t yet posted yet? That’s not in the least Town seeking to actively scum-hunt.

--

If this is what he meant, he should have said so. IF we don't lynch Hez, nuking him wouldn't be a waste of a nuke as opposed to nuking someone else, but from the perspective of right now, when it's still possible to LYNCH Hez, it would waste a town nuke NOT to do so, because town would have to nuke him instead of someone else to get him dead. Understand now?

Regardless of what Hez asked you I specifically asked you that question in Post 868. It was near the top of my post so you had little excuse to not see it. So please don’t try to shift the focus to Hez’s post.

Your assessment only makes sense if Hez is confirmed scum. If Hez is Town then lynching him is a worse move than Nuking him later. I don’t have a strong scum read on Hez like I have on others. You’ll need to do a better job of convincing people that Hez is the best lynch. Posts with content like “I hope people listen to me today” aren't very convincing.

[AurorusVox]

@AV-

Everyone can get here and say a few things

, AV can claim, and AV can die. I'd also go for a few other lynches (IS in particular I'd like dead more, dana I'd be okay with dying too) but the difference between them and AV isn't strong enough to ignore the amount of likely town that think AV is scum.

Mina and Regfan still haven't shown up. I like words, and if I vote you now then Pooky will probably just powerhammer you.

So WHY did you say you'd do it if I were at L-2 but not when I was at L-4? That's going completely against what you just said.

---

1. I'm voting for who I think is the SK. GG is different.
2. Well duh. That's why I'm on his ass. I know I'm town so that's why I'm pushing him on it.

1. Stating “that’s different” isn’t valid reasoning. But since you brought it up why do you think Socio is the Serial Killer?
2. What do you think of all the other players who have directly called you Town? Is GG the only scum in that pool in your opinion?

1. Um it IS valid when the accusation was hypocrisy. It can't be hypocrisy if it's something DIFFERENT, can it? Socio as SK makes sense, as I said earlier he wasn't posting like his town or mafia self as I've far as I've seen in DEFCON games before, and SK is the one role that's neither mafia nor town.
2. I've already said that I distrust Vi calling me town. How the hell are you calling me scummy when you're not even properly reading my posts?

With RC's townflip, that just means that those players thought they could get an RC mislynch and save my demise for today. Don't let the Eurotrash get away with this!

So your premise is that scum, having you as Town very close to lynch decided instead shift the wagon away to Red to mislynch him first and leave you for today?

When there was that much momentum towards RCTown yesterday, I don't doubt scum hopped on to help it go through. Mislynches that make sense at the time are a great help to scum; and now today they're renewing their assault. If someone else dropped a clanger like RC I'm sure scum would ride that one too. I'm useful for scum to keep around while everyone is willing to jump on without explaining why, because it just means they can do the same thing and get away with it.

MoI: Now tell me why you're not on Hez' ass for wanting to end the day so quick, but you'll question my pressure on GG?

Oh this I find scummy as hell.

You post this 7 minutes after Hez’s 972 and assert I’m being inconsistently scummy for not attacking Hez for his ‘end the Day early’ post when I haven’t yet posted yet? That’s not in the least Town seeking to actively scum-hunt.

But you don't find him wanting to finish the day scummy as hell? I read his previous posts (finishing what we started yesterday) as wanting today over asap, so I'm not really sure why you're saying it's only been 7 minutes. It's the attitude, not the post, I'm referring to,

Also I notice you really wanted my answers to (3a) and (3b) but you have no comment to make back about them. If you were town you'd be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don't care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

[Gammagooey]

I will do it once Mina and Regfan word it up a notch.

L-4 is probably isn't ACTUALLY far enough away for it to matter with this many people but on the very off-chance that 7 other people that hadn't voted yet wanted to vote IS then I'd rather him be the dead. L-2 with this many people basically means it's a done deal and my IS-vote gets to be a placeholder that irritates you until other people show up.

[AurorusVox]

my IS-vote gets to be a placeholder that irritates you

[Internet Stranger]

I will do it once Mina and Regfan word it up a notch.

L-4 is probably isn't ACTUALLY far enough away for it to matter with this many people but on the very off-chance that 7 other people that hadn't voted yet wanted to vote IS then I'd rather him be the dead. L-2 with this many people basically means it's a done deal and my IS-vote gets to be a placeholder that irritates you until other people show up.

Dont worry AV, I might end up nuking GammaEuroScum first after all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Gamma

- Do you think AV is scum or not? I don't care what your Town-reads say ... what is your concrete read?

--

1. Um it IS valid when the accusation was hypocrisy. It can't be hypocrisy if it's something DIFFERENT, can it? Socio as SK makes sense, as I said earlier he wasn't posting like his town or mafia self as I've far as I've seen in DEFCON games before, and SK is the one role that's neither mafia nor town.
2. I've already said that I distrust Vi calling me town. How the hell are you calling me scummy when you're not even properly reading my posts?

1. So your evidence that Socio is the Serial Killer is Meta? Noted.

How is it not hypocritical for you to attack someone for calling someone scum but voting elsewhere when you are doing the same thing? You can couch it all you want in “it’s different, I’m voting for the SK” when you are both doing exactly the same thing – voting a different “scum” suspect when calling the other scum.

2. I’ve read your posts. Asking to reiterate a point you made yesterday is part of the scum-hunting process. Other than listing Vi on your 'maybe' scum list today you've said more or less nothing about that slot today.

When there was that much momentum towards RCTown yesterday, I don't doubt scum hopped on to help it go through. Mislynches that make sense at the time are a great help to scum; and now today they're renewing their assault. If someone else dropped a clanger like RC I'm sure scum would ride that one too. I'm useful for scum to keep around while everyone is willing to jump on without explaining why, because it just means they can do the same thing and get away with it.

You are going to get turned into a smoking crater pretty soon after DEFCON 1 opens so your point about being a ‘reserved’ lynch really doesn’t hold.

What do you think of the lack of momentum on Gorilla for his “herp it was reaction fishing I’m a good nuke anyway because I am useless” post. That has to qualify as a clanger. Does it make you think Gorilla is more likely to be scum?

But you don't find him wanting to finish the day scummy as hell? I read his previous posts (finishing what we started yesterday) as wanting today over asap, so I'm not really sure why you're saying it's only been 7 minutes. It's the attitude, not the post, I'm referring to,

Yes, I do. It’s why I questioned him in my first post after said post.

The 7 minutes aspect has to do with the fact that you are attacking me for not finding him scummy when I hadn’t had a chance to post at all. The fact that you had already made judgement about what I would think of Hez’s post before I had even posted is scummy as hell.

Also I notice you really wanted my answers to (3a) and (3b) but you have no comment to make back about them. If you were town you'd be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don't care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

Rhetoric. I saw your responses and don’t feel they warranted further discussion. Pro-Tip: everything you say isn’t worth re-hashing constantly.

But to take up your argument – I see you didn’t comment on my response regarding the Sub issue or your clear Appeal to Emotion that I made in 962. If you were Town you’d be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don’t care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

See how uselessly filled with pointless rhetoric that line of attack is?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't understand why everyone is voting for AV. We've got Gorilla practically claiming SK in the thread, and no one is even looking at it.

Too absorbed by the AV tunnel.

[Gammagooey]

@magna- He's my second strongest scumread in the game, and I think he's very likely scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Who's your strongest then Gamma? InternetStranger?

[Gammagooey]

yeeeeeeeep

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Would you mind providing me with reasons?

[Gammagooey]

He replaced Zhero who looked like his posts were just to look like he's being useful instead of actually figuring stuff out or giving helpful defcon 4 advice
His votes and suspicions are very reactionary with the exception of the one on RedCoyote
and his big scumhunting post is calling out people who made scumlists and then attacking Vi for thinking his predecessor is scummy.

[AurorusVox]

1. So your evidence that Socio is the Serial Killer is Meta? Noted.

How is it not hypocritical for you to attack someone for calling someone scum but voting elsewhere when you are doing the same thing? You can couch it all you want in “it’s different, I’m voting for the SK” when you are both doing exactly the same thing – voting a different “scum” suspect when calling the other scum.

2. I’ve read your posts. Asking to reiterate a point you made yesterday is part of the scum-hunting process. Other than listing Vi on your 'maybe' scum list today you've said more or less nothing about that slot today.

1. Because going after the SK is a legitimate tactic right now. It IS different, and it's "scummy as hell" that you don't recognise this.
2. I've said Vi is possible white knighting me multiple times, and explained it. I also said CSL made that slot more likely scum kthx.

You are going to get turned into a smoking crater pretty soon after DEFCON 1 opens so your point about being a ‘reserved’ lynch really doesn’t hold.

Fair enough.

What do you think of the lack of momentum on Gorilla for his “herp it was reaction fishing I’m a good nuke anyway because I am useless” post. That has to qualify as a clanger. Does it make you think Gorilla is more likely to be scum?

I don't like it, but I don't know what to make of it because I can't see scum asking to be nuked like that.

But you don't find him wanting to finish the day scummy as hell? I read his previous posts (finishing what we started yesterday) as wanting today over asap, so I'm not really sure why you're saying it's only been 7 minutes. It's the attitude, not the post, I'm referring to,

Yes, I do. It’s why I questioned him in my first post after said post.

But you didn't call him scummy for it. You posed it as a question, not an accusation.

The 7 minutes aspect has to do with the fact that you are attacking me for not finding him scummy when I hadn’t had a chance to post at all. The fact that you had already made judgement about what I would think of Hez’s post before I had even posted is scummy as hell.

And you don't think his hurry to "finish what we started yesterday" contributed to that feeling of rushing?

Also I notice you really wanted my answers to (3a) and (3b) but you have no comment to make back about them. If you were town you'd be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don't care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

Rhetoric. I saw your responses and don’t feel they warranted further discussion. Pro-Tip: everything you say isn’t worth re-hashing constantly.

But they were direct negations of your previous points. I'd have liked to see what you made of the points - do you just accept that they're right, then?

But to take up your argument – I see you didn’t comment on my response regarding the Sub issue or your clear Appeal to Emotion that I made in 962. If you were Town you’d be ready to engage with what I said there, but you obviously don’t care about real analysis since you know who the scum are already (your buddies).

See how uselessly filled with pointless rhetoric that line of attack is?

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

Unvote

Haven't had the time to finish my business in this game, and I won't have time until late tonight if not early tomorrow. Unvoting to make sure no funny stuff happens while I'm gone.

If Faraday happens to come back before I do, he has the reins, etc.

[ToastyToast]

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.

Actually this is a really good point, but I think there's something more interesting at stake here. LLD proposes that Gorilla is the SK, and Toasty agrees...Killing the SK reduces NKs by one. So, Toasty, why aren't you voting Gorilla? Do you prefer the cool comfort of having nine other people on the wagon with you, to keep you under the radar a little more?

I have to catch up (yeah, I've been lurking a bit. Got three new games O.o). I'll answer this tho. I think gorilla is scummy, but not necessarily SK. His play is very passive, and he sort of goes with the flow.

AV, I currently think you are scum because of 1)how quickly you agreed with the RedCayote wagon, 2) emotional defense (WHAT CAN I DO? ) 3)Meta check
Then, in D2 4) Calls IS town, then suggests people should move their votes to IS "if they think he's scummier." In my opinion, trying to get votes of of oneself in favor for votes on one of your town reads...the survival mentality there is way to strong. 5) Calls gorilla scum but doesn't clearly explain why. Also, another hop as soon as

a strong town read

mentions their suspicions.

I do think the votes based on the sub comment are stupid.

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

aaaand not following up on a response is inherently scummy?

[inHimshallibe]

Sociopath is killing off people who can read him and are threats

We're next

I r sad

Vote: AV

So Sociopath is confirmed scum to you.

Who is killing those who can read him.

And you are next.

Yet you are voting on the dominant bandwagon instead of trying to lynch Sociopath and save your "True Blue American" self from exploding trucks.

I'll bite.

UNVOTE: AV
VOTE: Sociopath

Come on Fate / Reck .. let's actually hang the person you think is the terrorist. Don't keep him alive because you like him.

I don't get this, especially since you agreed with me about why RC was scum.

Explain to me why you're voting SP here?

[AurorusVox]

AV, I currently think you are scum because of 1)how quickly you agreed with the RedCayote wagon, 2) emotional defense (WHAT CAN I DO? ) 3)Meta check
Then, in D2 4) Calls IS town, then suggests people should move their votes to IS "if they think he's scummier." In my opinion, trying to get votes of of oneself in favor for votes on one of your town reads...the survival mentality there is way to strong. 5) Calls gorilla scum but doesn't clearly explain why. Also, another hop as soon as

a strong town read

mentions their suspicions.

I do think the votes based on the sub comment are stupid.

This is another obvious difference. My accusation is that YOU asked me a question and then didn't follow up on my response: your accusation is that YOU made a point that I didn't follow up on. There's a clear difference.

aaaand not following up on a response is inherently scummy?

1) Um. So what about EVERYONE ELSE that voted him before me? Let's not even mention that I had additional reasons along with my vote other than just Baa.
2) I honestly still don't know why most of the people on the wagon are voting for me. That comment was made out of frustration with that fact.
3) If you want to talk Meta, I can present you with a bunch of games where I've not played like this as scum. Plus, Hindu Meta'd me and disagrees with your findings. As someone who has scummed it up with me, I don't think your meta argument overpowers his.
4) Um again. I never said "people" should be voting IS. That whole thing was in the context of GG's half-AV half-IS voting bullshit.
5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.

Not following up on a question he himself had wanted the answer to is scummy, because if he doesn't want to talk about the answer, why ask the question in the first place? The reason he didn't follow up on it was because my response proved his question was misguided and wrong, and he didn't want to draw attention to that by acknowledging my response.

[ToastyToast]

5) Where did I call Gorilla scum? I said quite explicitly in my last post that I didn't see it coming from scum.

Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless, and should not be lynched today.
I have pledged my allegiance to the American people and will do all in my power to destroy those European pansy-ass lily-livered coward-bitch-suckling bastards.

Oh. So you want to lynch town? lolk

[AurorusVox]

Read that as: "Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless. I should not be lynched today"
Or if you prefer; "I'm not useless, unlike Gorilla, and I should not be lynched today"
Whatever permutation of that you prefer.

[danakillsu]

Regardless of what Hez asked you I specifically asked you that question in Post 868. It was near the top of my post so you had little excuse to not see it. So please don’t try to shift the focus to Hez’s post.

Your assessment only makes sense if Hez is confirmed scum. If Hez is Town then lynching him is a worse move than Nuking him later. I don’t have a strong scum read on Hez like I have on others. You’ll need to do a better job of convincing people that Hez is the best lynch. Posts with content like “I hope people listen to me today” aren't very convincing.

You're right, I didn't have any excuse not to see that, but still didn't. I'm only shifting the focus to his post because there is actually no way for me to tell if that's what he was asking me. If you want to ask me it yourself, that's fine, but don't pretend that this issue is really just between Hez and me, because he didn't ask me anything like this.
You're basically saying we should assume that Hez is Town. I understand that him being lynched/nuked relies on him being SEEN as scum. And he is SEEN as scum. Therefore he will be lynched or nuked. Let's make it lynched, please. And btw, did you read my post on the first part of his catchup? That should be more than enough to lynch him right there. But if people aren't gonna listen to what I've already said about Hez, there's no reason to say more.

[gorilla]

Wat? You're using "lol reaction testing" as your excuse?

Can we please hang this guy? Please~~~?

No, I just did it to be sassy. I wanted to know why he thought I should die.

@Gorilla

Do you not want to be useless? DO you want to be an American hero?

Do you have a nuke?

pls answer yes to all of the above.

yes, yes, and regrettably, no. That was sort of why I said I'm useless - this is a ~soft claim~

@MoI - I never said I thought AV was town, I said I don't understand the reason he's being voted. Quite a few of people voting him didn't even really say why they were voting him, and I'm just too much of a gosh-darn slow moron to figure it out myself. You're coming close to misrepresenting me.

kind of don't like Avox's "I'm not useless.I should not be lynched today" - stings of self-preservation - that and all the SK-hunting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You wanted to know why he wanted you dead.

Exactly. That's the entire basis of the "Why Me?" tell.

[HezLucky]

yes, yes, and regrettably, no. That was sort of why I said I'm useless - this is a ~soft claim~

@MoI - I never said I thought AV was town, I said I don't understand the reason he's being voted. Quite a few of people voting him didn't even really say why they were voting him, and I'm just too much of a gosh-darn slow moron to figure it out myself. You're coming close to misrepresenting me.

1) This is really, really noncommittal. It's like you want to accuse someone of misrepping you but you do it in such a passive way that it's clear you care far more about your image than finding scum.
2) See #1. Except the "gosh darn slow" bit. You're blaming yourself so that no-one gets mad at you.
3) A non-nuke claim is not going to save you.

Very very image-conscious gorilla. Very likely the SK.

AV needs to be lynched though. Where are you mina?

[Magister Ludi]

Swamped by graduation and other such things. More posts coming over next few days.

Anti-town:

Gorilla
MagnaofIllusion
SwiftJustice
Sociopath

More obviously. Hez needs a nuke.

AV wagon is meh. Not joining.

Vote: Gorilla

Happy to switch.

Saw one question aimed at me. MoI, yes.