Open 239 - C9++

[Fate]

VOTE: YTHILL

HOBO JUSTICE BABY.

THERE WILL BE HELL TO PAY FOR KILLING RECK N0 FOR THE XTH FUCKIN GAME IN A ROW. ITS NOT FUNNY

[Fate]

STOP SIMULPOSTING WITH ME ANDRIUS.

Oh wait.

Andrius~!!??!

ME??!?!?

TOGETHER?!?!?

<3 Andrius. HAI

[Fate]

SOMETHING TELLS ME THAT YTHAN WOULDN'T DO SUCH A TERRIBLE THING.

BUT YEAH I"LL BE CAREFUL.

Going to sleep now, catch scum for me while I'm gone <3

PREVIEWZ:
YEAH I SAW YOU.

BUT IM IN TEN OTHER GAMES SOOOOOOOOOO

YEAH I DIDNT NOTICE YOU TILL WE SIMUL POSTED>

ITS LIKE WE MET HERE BY... F-*gunshot*

[Fate]

And why are we all hobos? lol

You all live in Central Park.

8/10

[Fate]

Pro-town NK analysis eh?

Unvote:
Vote: Mafuyu

Incorrect usage of -desu FTL.

Oh and that set-up speculation seems like "HEY IF DERS A SK COME OUT PL0X"

Did your kill get stopped by Reck last night Mafuyu?

[Fate]

^^^It worked AGAR!!!


Town:
Agar

Scum:
Nobody

Unvote:
Vote: Nobody Special

TRAP SPRUNG

[Fate]

Damn it Ythill. *arrows pointing to NS' #42*

[Fate]

Lynch Ythill and when he flips scum, we get two confirmed townies.

By that logic, it would be three confirmed townies (I didn't include NS earlier because I was talking to him and figured he already knows his alignment). But your logic isn't flawless. If I'm scum, my mistake could have been faked. Also, I'm not scum.[/quote]

I'll let AGAR answer for himself but I'm pretty sure if you think hard enough you can see what he was doing...


Vote Nobody pl0x

[Fate]

I'll just pretend you said:

"HA! Good postin' Fate. Yeah NS fell for it pretty bad Vote: NS. <3 you Ythill."

You can stop tunneling Ythill for null tells now... if he commits REAL tells (Ythillscum? Scumtell? HA!) then sure we'll get some conf-townies and shit.

[Fate]

TRAP SPRUNG

What.....?

Damn it Ythill. *arrows pointing to NS' #42*

Fate, darling, you're going to have to understand something about me: I DON'T GET CRYPTIC SHIT LIKE THIS. If you have something to say, SAY IT. In WORDS.

*cryptic hand signals*

You think you can get away with murder? This isn't 1942 anymore...

[Fate]

You didn't mention my name in your little catch-up post so there's no way in hell I'm explaining anything.

[Fate]

I've been avoiding this game because of #77, not really sure how to approach it without my emotions getting in the way. Hopefully this feeling goes away soon and I'll post more content.

@Ythill: Having been part to over 1000 IRC games and 1000 night zeroes I don't take much stock into "who would kill who" analysis. N1+ though I'm all for NK analysis. I hope you don't mind me not answering what I believe happened to Reck because I think thats tantamount to role speculation (AKA whether I would believe a Reck vig kill or not)

[Fate]

I did mean Mafuyu. Mafuyu's recent posts explaining how she determined Ythill was SK (cause he couldnt be scum if he was protected from a kill) ring all sorts of alarms with me.

I mean, I didn't even BEGIN to think about that sort of set-up. Which leads me to believe Ythill insomach as Mafuyu tried to take out Ythill, Ythill was either protected or NK SK, so Mafuyu starts posting against him like he's a SK, etc. etc.

TLDR:
I'LL HAMMER MAFUYU ITS CLAIM TIME.

[Fate]

Shenanigans. I'm not saying you should have voted her for the reason I gave, especially if you don't agree with it. However, she pointed out things that, if valid, would suggest I'm scum of either flavor, then jumped to the conclusion that I'm a SK. I don't understand why you don't find that suspicious. You voted Andrius for stating the belief but you ignored the fact that Mafuyu was actually doing it.

To be fair, if Reck had protected you you would have been protected from a scum or vig kill, as SKs doc-bypass. So, if you are anti-town, and you didn't get vig-targeted, that leaves SK. It was a pretty stupid hypothetical.

^This is the speculation post I was referring to in my last post.

The speculation I was referring to where Ythill thought I was mentioning nham was Mafuyu's initial "CLAIM HOW MANY TS GUIZ" which was terribad no matter how you slice it.

[Fate]

Drmy has posted in other games.

A prod is in order.

[Fate]

Thanks for the complement? Or insult?

Neither. Accusation. And you're doing it again.

The speculation I was referring to where Ythill thought I was mentioning nham was Mafuyu's initial "CLAIM HOW MANY TS GUIZ" which was terribad no matter how you slice it.

Terribad, yes, but what made it seem like SK fishing?

LULZ.

The funny thing is, reading this made me go back and look for the original post, but it turns out I had an EPIC MISREAD FAIL.

Mafuyu said UNSPOKEN "claim your Ts guess" plan, but the way I read it I thought she had said "initial" as in "what I initially posted and asked for."

Teach me to not read back heh. So take that point off, but her recent "this is why I thought SK-Ythill" post still stands as scummy.

[Fate]

@Fate: Okay but you still need to answer the question. If she'd said "initial" instead of UNSPOKEN, how would it have been SK fishing?

Asking everyone to speculate how many Ts there are? At first I thought Ts were just the number of scum roles, but when I read the set-up again it is also the number of townies. So getting everyone to speculate the # of Ts is more set-up speculation than SK fishing in reality. What I was thinking at the time was that Ts=scum PRs+SK so that if someone claimed an odd number (or whatever it is that determines a +SK) guess that it would be telling that they think there's a SK.

Also, why haven't you voted for Mafuyu?

She was at L-1, obv. Call me an ego-maniac but I don't like placing the hammer in others hands. Its far too early for the day to end. (Even though I threatened to hammer I likely wouldn't have for a few more pages of discussing her claim, etc.) L-2 is fine.

Why does me not voting her strike you as odd? It doesn't change what I've said and the suspicions I've placed, so why would you want her to be in hammer-range again after expressing an interest in extending the day? Seems like a lil dissonance, Ythill.

[Fate]

Oh fuck yeah now I'm definitely not voting Mafuyu.

Unvote:
Vote: Drmy

Replace in,
L-1 vote,
Piggyback case,
Talk nonesense
???
Get Lynched.
???
MOAR PROFIT?

[Fate]

Opporutinistic? You can't just soft-sell lynches by tell-dropping without any real explanation. How was it opportunistic?

@ Ythil I think the rest of the game is a tad null, for me, not all that much really sticks out. And if you are asking me if I have an opinion on his scummy body I would have to say AGar it's mainly a gut feeling but him vibes with scumminess

@Mafuyu if your posts and lurking wasnt so scummy then maybe further explaination would be necisary, but I think your posts and lack of posts speak for them selves

^YOU on the other hand have dropped real tells. First bandwagoning and rushing the day, and in this post you express no concrete stances or real cases. Also you're calling Mafuyu out on lurking which is really hypocritical. Hold on, lemme go read your first post again...

Now that Mafuyu has soft-claimed Mason, why are you still voting her? Do you think she's gambiting at this time? Didn't read like that to me.

[Fate]

*reads first drmy post*

YOU DIDNT. Why the hell wouldn't you say something like "oh sorry forgot to bookmark this" or "Whoops forgot about this game HEHEHAHA"

You just strolled in like you've been reading the whole time. HELLO LURKER, MEET FIST.

I'm not a fan of Animorph either riding out that Policy lynch vote, but I work with what I got here in front of me.

[Fate]

I lie all the time, what the hell?

Are you going to unvote Mafuyu or explain why you're not?

[Fate]

@Mafuyu if your posts and lurking wasnt so scummy then maybe further explaination would be necisary, but I think your posts and lack of posts speak for them selves

You mean this?
Ok that's cute, now comment or elaborate or say "ZOMG MASON CLAIMGAMBIT TELL US WHO YOUR BUDDY IS?" or SOMETHING that would indicate you are town trying to figure this out.

Cause right now you're obvscum baby.

[Fate]

Ythill, what the HECK are you doing!? How is revealing all possible partners for Mafuyu in any way pro-Town? How does it seem like a good idea at all? That was seriously terribad play Ythill. If there are 3 masons, you have potentially revealed the entire mason group. For the moment, I am refusing to claim whether or not I am Mafuyu's partner, and I believe that ani and anybody else should do the same.

It's not a secret. It's obvious based on voting trends. What isn't obvious is that Ythill left fishy out of that list and I want to know why.

^Ythill why haven't you answered this?

[Fate]

LYNCH ALL MOTHER FUCKIN VANILLAS

THERES NO WAY IN HELL WERE GETTING OUT OF TODAY WITHOUT A DRMY LYNCH. IM 150% SERIOUS RIGHT NOW.

IN the meantime there's also no way in hell I'm letting Animorph COAST D1 on one single fuckin post which is aimed at me for no other reasons than policy.

CONTRIBUTIN' TIME ANI.

[Fate]

4 players not voting and ANi who's vote is meaningless.


Great D1 information guiz...

[Fate]

I was so taken aback by your retarded claim that I wasn't really thinking about much else.

unvote

Retarded?

Is retarded scummy?

Townie?

WAY TO NOT TAKE A STANCE SCUM.

If the scum team is NS, drmy, ani I'll be so happy. If only all my town reads could be town fo sho'

[Fate]

Good news for y'all, I didn't end up going out.

What's your read on fishy and why?

Sorry I missed this earlier. At the time you asked, I was entirely null on him. However, I just finished rereading and he's sullied himself a bit. See below.

Okay, first, a word about Maf/nham... As I've said, the mason claim explains most of nham's problematic behavior. However, Mafuyu still looks really scummy to me. I know that scum mason claims are a dangerous gambit but I'm also keeping in mind that Maf is a clumsy player. If she was fake-claiming, her original plan was a lot less risky than the corner I backed she and her partner into. For now, I'm going to back off but if the scum decide not to kill her (especially if they kill me instead) the unconfirmed mason team is going to become a thorn in the side of the town before endgame. My advice is that, if a cop exists, he should investigate Mafuyu sometime before potential LYLO. Whether she's scum or town, it's a two-for one investigation. If she's town and is NKed on the night of investigation, we still get a confirmed innocent out of the deal, and just me suggesting this should increase the chances that she or nham will be NKed ASAP. 'Nuff said, except to note that I will

not

be considering either of them confirmed town (as regards other reads) until we get a flip.

Of the remaining eight players, Andrius and Fishy look the most suspicious to me. Sorry Fate, shotty has easy mislynch tattooed on his forehead and the opportunism during the collapse of the Maf wagon has me leaning town on him.

Andrius seemed clean in the early game but he waxed chatty once the heavy arguments started rolling. He buddied to me and (to a lesser extent) Fate, believed Maf's claim too easily, and seems more interested in setup speculation than scumhunting. A couple of posts ago, he claimed to have more suspects than Maf but, rereading him in iso, he could've fooled me.

Fishy was absent for while and, since he's been here, his only scumhunting has been an opportunistic vote on the VI.

VOTE: Andrius

This is good posting, and the sort of thing we need to talk about before the day ends (with a drmy lynch), and makes me replace Animorph with Andrius on my suspect list, BUT ani still needs to post more to erase doubt.

ALSO Ythill, you can't call people town based on the speed of their wagon. You just CAN'T. That's how I won (draw -_-) that one game referenced in MD. We wagonned our lamebuddy (well none of the final scum were in the game at that time, but) to L-1 D1 quickly, and then everyone made excuses for that slot's play from then on because of that.

PLUS he claimed VT. PLUS he's a detriment to town if he is somehow town, so this borders on two or three good policy lynches that are all pro-town moves for D1:
-Lynch a VT (no more outing PRs)
-Lynch a VI (if not lynched he'll live till LyLo, and guess what happens there)
-Lynch a possible scum (You can't read his posts and not see scumtells left and right. His contradictions are absurd)
^THIS is why drmy needs to die today Ythill.

More thoughts in a sec

[Fate]

@Ythill: I think your opinion on drmy's vote post may be affected by how scummy you thought Mafuyu was being.

Oh wow and

Also, Ythill, what do you make of the lack of reading the thread and the contradictions his posts seem to make

The first gives me good vibes from Fishy because I think he's right in his read of you and your being clouded.
The second reinforces my town read of AGAR so w're good there still.

NOW:

NobodySpecial:
-I still have him as scum for the way he jumped on Ythill's wagon after AGAR was calling for it (as a joke). He said something like "this works, for now" giving him an out, and a reason to stay on the wagon. When obviously Ythill's 9 player thing and AGAR's call for a lynch was a joke/trap (from my POV)
-NOW after I express disgust with Animorph's play, he jumps on that counter-wagon like "yeah!! I could go for that!"
-I ASKED what he thought of drmy's claim, for him to clarify what "Retarded" means, and he has avoided doing so.

Normally I wouldn't be able to see Andrius and NS as scum together jumping on the ani wagon, but I agree with Ythill about Andrius' ISO play and them wagoning together for ani real hard would make perfect sense if drmy was in fact scum with them.

Also:

If he doesn't go now, he needs to go before LyLo. Just saying.
Wait. Maybe if we let him live longer, he'll do something insanely stupid like he did in our last game together (on-going) and basically out himself as scum

He says, "drmy lynch? Sure I'm down but maybe later." Drmy's play isn't going to improve, in Andrius' own words he'll only get SCUMMIER... so why are we letting him live when he could be a potential scum PR? And wagoning random lurkers? Do you want other people to claim today Andrius? If drmy is a GF I think we have this game wrapped up connections and counter-wagon wise.

[Fate]

Retarded, in this case, means STOOPID. Also, in this case, is scummy. (It isn't always. Sometimes stupid is just stupid.)

So apparently you are agreeing the drmy is scummy, but voting off the wagon on some lurker than just needs a prod+a slap in the face?

mhmm...

[Fate]

Oh hai scum, want to post more than two lines and have a nice late night chat with me?

[Fate]

Unvote:
Vote: NobodySpecial

Is that supposed to be a fuckin joke?

Cause I'm not laughing.

[Fate]

NobodySpecial:
-I still have him as scum for the way he jumped on Ythill's wagon after AGAR was calling for it (as a joke). He said something like "this works, for now" giving him an out, and a reason to stay on the wagon. When obviously Ythill's 9 player thing and AGAR's call for a lynch was a joke/trap (from my POV)
-NOW after I express disgust with Animorph's play, he jumps on that counter-wagon like "yeah!! I could go for that!"
-I ASKED what he thought of drmy's claim, for him to clarify what "Retarded" means, and he has avoided doing so.

Normally I wouldn't be able to see Andrius and NS as scum together jumping on the ani wagon, but I agree with Ythill about Andrius' ISO play and them wagoning together for ani real hard would make perfect sense if drmy was in fact scum with them.

Retarded, in this case, means STOOPID. Also, in this case, is scummy. (It isn't always. Sometimes stupid is just stupid.)

Me and Andrius a scumteam? It is, how they say, to laugh.

I didn't see AGar's request as a joke (or a trap); if you did, well, that's your issue. How could it be a trap anyway, since I voted Ythill long before AGar did? You're weird.

And I'm firmly on the side of lynch all lurkers; look up my meta. It's easy to find. Therefore, your argument about me "jumping" on ani's wagon is moot. On that note,

@MOD: Can animorpherv1 be prodded AGAIN? He hasn't posted since July 31.

^This post is all defense no offense. You're content to ride an ani vote without commenting on the game.

SO YOU BETTER GET IN HERE AND START TALKIN. I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS FOR YOU:

-What do you think of Ythill's case on Andrius? Fishy?
-How would you like the day to proceed after animorph posts?
-What do you think of Unsight? He's posted only a little bit more than ani, but I don't see you complaining about his activity levels.
-Who is likely scum pushing the drmy wagon/bussing drmy?

[Fate]

@Fate: In post 208, you said we were not getting out of the day without a drmy lynch. You recently unvoted him. What changed?

Nobody did the impossible and became scummier than drmy. And since I'm more sure about NS scum right now, and his interaction with the drmy wagon is "oh he's retarded and scummy etc. etc. I'll go over here with my vote die lurker!" I'm more inclined to think, reluctantly, drmy is town.

ANIMORPH IS POSTIN IN OTHER GAMES THOUGH AND IM GETTING MOAR AND MOAR PISSED.

[Fate]

Unvote
Vote: Fishy

I see where you are coming from Ythill but I also think Agar is scumish

....

[Fate]

YTHILL

Have you seen the light?

Can my NS/Drmy pairing be any more plausible with my Fishy town read?

[Fate]

The first gives me good vibes from Fishy because I think he's right in his read of you and your being clouded.
The second reinforces my town read of AGAR so w're good there still.

^Why I don't support the Fishy wagon, ftr.

Sure he's set-up speculated, but haven't we ALL? There's more to his posts than just that and I see a coherent line of thought from his posts one to the next.

WHEREAS MR. DRMY DOES WHAT HE PLEASES AND SAYS "oh hai im mislynch bait, dont lynch me" and NOBODYSPECIAL IS SOMEBODY'S SCUMBUDDY SAYIN THINGS LIKE: "Oh hai guys you can meta me I vote lurkers all the time." (which was also called out by fishy here:

But from your posts, you thought there

was

someone scummy in the game. drmy. So your vote for a lurker looks like it was somewhere to park your vote to see how the drmy wagon progressed, while you voiced suspicion so you could hop on later.

[Fate]

MY QUESTIONS IN #269 REMAIN UNANSWERED AND MY RAGE REMAINS UNQUELLED, NOBODY

[Fate]

Nhammen why don't you love me?

[Fate]

@Unsight: Its a secret.

Well fun, the scum we have a wagon on just V/LA'd...

IS ANIMORPH FUCKIN REPLACED YET OR WHAT?

[Fate]

EDWOP:

2/3 the scumteam just went V/LA.

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Fate]

YOU JUST EARNED YOUSELF A NOM FOR BEST MOD YTHAN.

BURNNNNNN ANI BURNNNNNNN

[Fate]

Welcome, glad to have someone competent on board.

vSig.

I encourage more NS votes over Andrius as NS will be back tonight supposedly while Andrius is gone until tomorrow.

[Fate]

OH HAI THERE ANDRIUS WAGON

[Fate]

Andrius is supposed to come back tonight, but I REALLY don't like the speed of that wagon in the light of the NS/Fishy ones that were building up. I may need to re-read Fishy

[Fate]

Unvote
Vote: Andi

I just re read the thread instead of scimming it and this seems like a well formed wagon

^This is obviously the worst vote on the wagon, which goes without saying.

Maybe replace Andrius with Fishy/JABLOC in my reads. Leaning the latter now due to early read on Fishy.

For my theory to work, Justa woulda replaced in, seen both his buddies with wagons on them, and formed his own on the scummiest non-drmy townie.

Now THIS has mislynch written all over it, as opposed to drmy who was actually POSTING bullshit while being wagonned, whereas Andrius just isn't... even here..

[Fate]

JABOC: If I can't blackmail Mafuyu into not talking in that affected manner, you won't be able to , either. And it bothers me MORE THAN YOU KNOW.

(Yes, I'm working on real content.)

Yeah I'm lookin forward to this.

I also expect a "Oh WALP Andriu sis a good lynch HAMMAH"


I encourage any townie reading this to unvote Andrius now.

[Fate]

I STOP POSTING FOR NO ONE.

[Fate]

YES I NOTICED. HENCE WHY ID LIKE TO GET ON WITH THAT DRMY LYNCH.

COURSE THERES A FEW MORE REACTIONS I NEED BEFORE WE END THE DAY THAT WAY

[Fate]

@Justa:

It matters because I'm curious. I'm a sucker for a good puzzle. Give me three guesses by PM once the game is over?

I will keep it in mind. But, since this is not game-related like I thought it might have been, let's not further digress.

Fate, your thoughts?

Noted.

If Nobody Special hammers, he will be outting himself as scum. I'll take it.

PROBLEM IS HE ALREADY IS LIKELY SCUM. SO HAMMERING A TOWNIE BUYS HIM ANOTHER FUCKIN DAY AND A POSSIBLE PR LYNCH.

UNVOTE RIGHT THE FUCK NOW.

[Fate]

I must have missed it. I think my view on drmy is quite clear though

Sickness is affecting my playstyle in that I can't generate the same amount of rage as usual, but that's not important.

More importantly it has affected my ability to think with a clear head and reason shit through. Which is why I haven't posted the past few days. I feel a lil bit better tonight.

[Fate]

Unvote

.

Have you been sick since the game began? If not, when did you become sick?

I promise I have good reasoning for asking this.

I got sick on Saturday after being at work for 15 hours.

Now fuckin tell me what's the matter with you

[Fate]

IF ANYONE IS STILL VOTING ANDRIUS AFTER THAT DRIBBLE OF A "CONTENT" POST THEY NEED TO WAKE THE FUCK UP.

[Fate]

[AND NOT VOTING NS, OBVSCUM MCPURPLEPANTS]

[Fate]

BEIN FUNNY'S MY PLAYSTYLE YTHILL.

YOU GOTTA PLAY "Smart, rational, sexy" CARD.

NOW TELL ME HOW YOU JUMPED FROM FISHY->MAFUYU->NHAM TO NSSCUM WITHOUT LOOKING BACK ONCE?

[Fate]

I hope I was supposed to take two of those pills.

They were pretty big...

Something tells me I'm goin lights out in a sec.

[Fate]

Been sick and working often.

Vote: Ythill

[Fate]

I still take it that Drmy's the SK just for being scummy as hell in general and having few connections to both flipped scum.

Ythill is the surprise surprise last scum. I've suspected him for awhile for that whole Mason-outing shebangabang earlier, but I knew sooner rather than later he would bus his partners so...

FOLLOW YTHILL TO HIS BUDDIES THEN WHEN THEY IZ DEAD LYNCH THE HEADMASTA

[Fate]

COME OUT AND PLAY GUYS.

YTHILL I LOVE TEH 180 in #446 OF: "UH, RIGHT, BUT WHEN FATE FLIPS TOWN ITS CUZ NS HAMMERED TO STOP ANDRIUS' POTENTIAL LYNCH. IM NOT SCUM ON THE WAGON NUH UH NO WAY"

[Fate]

We already have this game wrapped up Ythill, even if we DO lynch me first.

Because tomorrow town DONT let Ythill talk his way out of it. When I flip town that means HE is scum on the Nobody wagon.

I don't see the point in refuting your points Ythill, I already made it clear I was buddying up to you to see where it went. I've done it in other games and it is an excellent tactic for avoiding the NK and encouraging bussing. It also frustrates the HELL out of scum when I reverse my read on them later on because they probably left me alive for my "reads"

The rest of your points they are just confirmation bias using the flips you have: "oh you did this here! [because NS flipped scum] and this was you doing XXX here! [because Andrius flipped scum" Its nothing concrete.

I've already said Drmy is likely SK. Which makes his VT claim pretty easy to coast

[Fate]

Confirmation bias is you going from calling me the towniest guy to calling me scum, and then ISO'ing me and using the flips to spin all of my posts to a scum motive. Here give me 5mins I can do it too.

[Fate]

Wow, lotsa ninjas.

I hadn't seen that before, but you're assuming that Ythill was targetted by a non-Vig.

I've been thinking about this. At the begining of D1, the most reasonable assumption seemed to be no-vig, no-SK. Operating under that assumption, I figured that Maf was unlikely to be scum because of me as the hypothetical kill choice, which she's already admitted to. Then she started acting scummy and, like I said, I stumbled on the Reck-protect idea because I still think Mafuyu's scumteam would have been all over me. Ergo, my entertaining the idea of a failed NK is contingient on my belief that Mafuyu is scum. So why is

she

making the assumption?

Seriously, can

anyone

explain a reason other than her being scum?

Pushing the idea of Mafuyu scum so hard reads as you knowing there was a SK (i.e. your kill was blocked N0), and begun looking for anyone showing those signs.

I need to step back from my tunnel vision for a minute and take a fresh look at the game. The mason claims do explain much of nham's problematic behavior. I will check my reads over the next day or two and try to look at things from a fresh perspective.

Stepping back once you see that your SK hunt lead to a dead end. Your vote was sitting on the drmy wagon prior to this (who seems non-scum from wagon analysis.)

Good news for y'all, I didn't end up going out.

What's your read on fishy and why?

Sorry I missed this earlier. At the time you asked, I was entirely null on him. However, I just finished rereading and he's sullied himself a bit. See below.

Okay, first, a word about Maf/nham... As I've said, the mason claim explains most of nham's problematic behavior. However, Mafuyu still looks really scummy to me. I know that scum mason claims are a dangerous gambit but I'm also keeping in mind that Maf is a clumsy player. If she was fake-claiming, her original plan was a lot less risky than the corner I backed she and her partner into. For now, I'm going to back off but if the scum decide not to kill her (especially if they kill me instead) the unconfirmed mason team is going to become a thorn in the side of the town before endgame. My advice is that, if a cop exists, he should investigate Mafuyu sometime before potential LYLO. Whether she's scum or town, it's a two-for one investigation. If she's town and is NKed on the night of investigation, we still get a confirmed innocent out of the deal, and just me suggesting this should increase the chances that she or nham will be NKed ASAP. 'Nuff said, except to note that I will

not

be considering either of them confirmed town (as regards other reads) until we get a flip.

Of the remaining eight players, Andrius and Fishy look the most suspicious to me. Sorry Fate, shotty has easy mislynch tattooed on his forehead and the opportunism during the collapse of the Maf wagon has me leaning town on him.

Andrius seemed clean in the early game but he waxed chatty once the heavy arguments started rolling. He buddied to me and (to a lesser extent) Fate, believed Maf's claim too easily, and seems more interested in setup speculation than scumhunting. A couple of posts ago, he claimed to have more suspects than Maf but, rereading him in iso, he could've fooled me.

Fishy was absent for while and, since he's been here, his only scumhunting has been an opportunistic vote on the VI.

VOTE: Andrius

Keeping up the "masons are scummy" facade, this precludes your not NKing them las night. A bus on Andrius is appropriate seeing as how your SK hunting didn't pan out at all and made you look bad.

The first reason you quoted was a playstyle complaint that he said wasn't scummy, so I don't know why you're listing it, but will ask you: what purpose does that complaint serve for a scum agenda?

His first actual reason was a good point and I'm wondering why you didn't quote it. Maf dodging suspicion by making a joke about survivor claims and failing to explain her actions was scummy and, if I remember correctly, nobody else had pointed it out. So, AGar, why didn't you quote that reason? I agree that the lurking tell was weak, but that doesn't mean it was dishonest. The Maf-scum reasoning shotty quoted was accurate and was a large part of why I was driving her wagon. I should also point out that you understood my line of thought on the topic, and voted her shortly thereafter. Shall we look at your reasons for jumping on the same wagon?

Mafuyu wagon is looking better, mainly because Mafuyu is acting strange as hell.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mafuyu

And the rest of your case is that shotty claimed early, which serves a scum agenda how? Which is anything but a null mistake how? Meanwhile, everyone and their grandma is attacking him for the same null tells. What does that tell you about his alignment?

Ythill scum plays the hero by defending the lone drmy from attackers. There was no real town tells made by drmy up to this point and your town read of him was pretty baseless at the time.

ISO 45-50somethin

You build up the Fishy wagon when the Andrius one looks viable. Seems you only wanted to distance, not bus at that time.

End of Ythill's 270 - It is ROLE speculation though, which I did mention.

Who's role did I speculate about? Reck's role was confirmed and he's the only one I mentioned.

You haven't said anything to show I'm not interested in people's alignments.

You haven't said anything to show that you are. Your questions to me are pointless. Compare your own play to that of Fate and AGar: that should answer all of them.

@Fate:

I'm liking your posts in this game and I wouldn't be entirely opposed to a NS wagon because my read on him is fluctating around neutral at this point. However, now that you're seeing things my way regarding shotty, please check out Fishy's iso and consider joining me over here.

@Unsight:

I don't think your AGar vote is going anywhere. Though I'm tempted to OMGUS by what looks like a misrep of my early game, the majority of his play makes him look town to me. Please move your vote. I'd prefer if you moved it to Fishy, obv, but I'd be satisfied if you added steam to any of the wagons.

@Shotty:

Fate's attacks on you were overt. He was scumhunting before them, and is exploring other theories now. I do understand the temptation to OMGUS but, if you're looking for scum on your wagon, it's Fishy. Please move your vote to him (or to NS).

Look who asks everyone to join the Fishy wagon!

[Fate]

Well, I was seeing some good pro-Town play from a player that I had been considering voting. It changed my mind completely, and I decided to show him what he was doing right.

So what you're saying is that you and Maf aren't actually masons and that Nobody Special is your scumbuddy. There's going to be a whole lot of "oh shit" is your QT tonight, but it's not going to help. GG.

UNVOTE: Fishy
VOTE: Nobody Special

Your Andrius suspicion is almost non-existant here, and in following quotes. Not consistent at all. Your "mason scum theory" is very fabricated, forced:

Umm... what? Explain how any comment I have made there made

that

leap happen.

Lovin' the, "OMG how did you catch us!?"

First point, you two aren't playing like outed masons and when I asked you about that, you were both like, "Mmmm... I don't know." Second point, when I shifted pressure from Fishy to NS, Maf voted Fishy and you obv-buddied to him. And when I asked you about that you were like, "Mmmm... I don't know, but buddy-buddy-buddy." I dodn't even need the part where Maf links NS to Fishy or where you second-slot NS, but those lead to the same conclusion.

I'm serious folks. This is game over. More NS votes please, unless y'all trust me enough to lynch a "mason" today.

I was firmly convinced that Maf & nhamm were Masons; I'm not at all following how they slipped from that place in Ythill's eyes.

The bigger mystery is how they slipped into that place. I'm pretty resigned to the fact that we're not lynching them today, so long as y'all remember this after I'm gone.

Let's take a look at your input though... hmmm... called the towniest guy in the game town, explained that your counter-wagon has an alignment, forgot that you're not supposed to know I'm town yet, and made a wish list of things you'll be dead before doing. Yup. You're scum.

C'mon people, this isn't rocket science.

@Fate:

You've obviously never seen me eat a banana.

My train of thought should be obvious. I never really stopped being suspicious of Maf. Nham obv-coaching Fishy was the final piece of the puzzle and now it's all very clear to me.

Edit: Ohey look who's bussing.

^I could point out what EXACTLY is wrong with those pair of quotes, but it isn't exactly rocket science.

OH WAIT, drmy's is in this game:
Well uhhhh he went from "WRAPPED UP GG NS-NHAM-MAFUYU" to in the NEXT POST-> "my train of thought is obvious, the masons are scum who coached Fishyscu (mislynch attempt #3) and NS is scum who needs to die ASAP."

[Fate]

I'm stunned by that cardflip. WTF?

I guess I need to reread. Two scumfilps and a pair of confirmed masons isn't bad news though.

"OH FUCK THE SK SHOT MY BUDDY. NOW THE MASONS ARE CONFIRMED I SHOULDA KILLED THEM"

[Fate]

I could go on, but you get the point. Props to taking advantage of my sickness and getting the wagon analysis in before I could to try and earn "townie points" because that was the first thing I thought when I saw that flip and looked at the end of D1 VC.

The backpedaling later to include who "is scum" in the event of a Fate town flip kind of took some of the points away though.

[Fate]

Heh. The difference being that linking the goon you're bussing to everyone and his grandma

is

scummy. You know, if you put half the effort into finding the SK as you did discrediting the guy voting you, you could get some of those townie points you're whining about. And you still don't know what confirmation bias means because, if you did, then by accusing me of it you are

still assuming that I am town.

If I'm scum, I don't have any beliefs about your alignment, I know it for a fact and what I did there was

fabrication

. You know, like you just did.

The backpedaling later to include who "is scum" in the event of a Fate town flip...

I didn't think I'd have to spoon feed this to you, but my statement had nothing to do with your flip. I intend to read isos before we hang someone and, if you're town, we'll probably figure that out before the lynch.

Oh ok, if you want to play semantics game we and derail discussion we can do that too.

OBVIOUSLY everything you are saying is just a fabrication of suspicion because you are scum, but I don't need to use that in my arguements because we're here pretending everyone else is town and seeing holes in people's logics. THATS WHAT MAFIA IS. SO you being "supposedly town" are using confirmation bias as a means to push your case on me, WHICH IS SCUMMY because you are twisting all of my posts to make your little picture perfect INSTEAD OF searching for the truth of what is going on AKA WHAT TOWN DOES.

AKA U IS SCUM.

And your defense is "but you're saying confirmation bias which by nature of the definition can only be comitted by town because BLAH BLAH I TOOK ENGLISH IN COLLEGE." <-NOT A REAL DEFENSE KTHXBYE.

Do I need to throw in the part about how you seem particularly obsessed with finding the SK? Because disguising your mafia motivated SK hunting with:"LULZ FATE IS OBVSCUMZ, k now lets find the SK guiz! Theory time!" ain't workin on ME.

[Fate]

So my theory for yesterday is shot now. I was thinking it was an Ythill<->Fishy<->AGar mafia. My suspicion of Fishy was from Ythill's early discounting him as a mason and my suspicion of AGar was from both Ythill and Fishy's mentioning of my vote on him before AGar did. Looked a lot like scum buddying. With that theory out the window, I'm not really suspicious of Fishy for mafia anymore (my main reason was Ythill's treatment of him). Ythill's behavior still could be scum buddying town and AGar I'll get to in a moment.

After rereading, I think Ythill is town and Fate is probably our last mafia. The wagon analysis in post 444 is very good but the big thing that strikes me is that Fate was never on the same wagon as Andrius or Nobody Special (prior to the hammer). To me, that's far more significant than most of what Ythill mentioned.

VOTE: Fate

As for the possibility of a SK... the setup (if I understand Open games correctly--this is my first Open btw) has the possibility of a one-shot vig. It seems really odd that Fishy suddenly brings up the possibility of an SK right before the lynch in post 425. What's even odder is that AGar is voting him because he thinks Fishy is mafia when it strongly looks like Fate or Ythill is mafia. I think AGar's reasoning is a load of crap but if we have another flavor of scum running around then it's probably one of the two of them (Fishy/AGar).

ITT: you fail to read day play. The hell would I be on a wagon WITH scummy people unless I smelled a bus? That's not a case, thats just speculation. "Well I don't think scum would do this/scum would do this=lazy Fate vote."

Unlike AGAR you see the light that the last scum IS within Ythill and me, and THAT is why I urge you to lynch Ythill first. You won't be dissappointed.

[Fate]

uh...

did he...

No... could he?

....really?

[Fate]

You speak dumbass. Do I really need to point out the flaws in your last post?

There's literally NOTHING right with it. Well, I mean at LEAST all the people you "suspect" are still alive and actually IN THIS GAME.

1/10

[Fate]

You're worthless. Regardless of alignment, REGARDLESS Of NS flipping scum I STILL think you would have been the most optimal lynch yesterday for long-term town gain.

[Fate]

ONE: THERE IS ONLY ONE MAFIA LEFT, AND ONE SERIAL KILLER.

TWO: YOU CALLED US A TEAM AND YOUR WHOLE CASE IS THAT WE ARE ALL A TEAM TOGETHER BASED ON OUR ACTIONS

THREE: YOUR DEFENSE IS "IM NOT A SERIAL KILLER GUIZ"

HOLY HELL MAN. HOLY HELL.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: DRMY

I SWEAR TO GOD ... I"LL GIVE YTHILL ONE MORE NIGHT BUT THATS ONLY BECAUSE I ACTUALLY ENJOY TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE HE'S SCUM. YOU NEED TO BURN DRMY, ASAP.

[Fate]

I'm pretty sure AGAR said that the set-up requires the 2nd NK to come from a SK, otherwise it would have come from a fullvig or SOMETHING like that, and AGAR's motivation for lying about possible set-ups is near 0% since its a semi-open set-up.

AKA YES I THINK SO.

[Fate]

THINK?

YOU DO THINGS LIKE THAT?


OH FUCK DIVE FOR COVER MEN DIVE FOR COVER

[Fate]

So did you THINK before you choose those suspects or are they arbitrarily picked out of the "what's people are saying today" hat?

[Fate]

GREAT!

Now are you going to share your reasons with the rest of the class?

[Fate]

I'm not voting drmy to lynch mafia, if you were reading my suspicions Ythill.

I'm not falling for the "oooooooooh im just a poooooooor VI dun lynch me" tactic again. Drmy's smarter than he looks and is prob-SK.

I doubt I'll get enough momentum for a Ythill wagon, maybe tomorrow with a few more flips...

[Fate]

THE SCUM IS YTHILL AND DRMY THE FUCK ARE YOU GUYS DOING.

HOLD UP HOLD UP.

[Fate]

Fate

RV on me, then Maf. First serious vote on NS, swapped to shotty mid-day, then back to NS until the goon was lynched. In light of the Andrius flip, his iso#1 (wherein he is surprised to see Andrius in the game) feels like a scum tactic. He buddied to me and AGar in the early game. He spread his net as the conversation grew thick, and started looking like town. Believed Maf's softclaim a little too easily. Linking NS to other players, and especially linking a NS-Andrius team to shotty, still looks bad to me. He even speculated that shotty was the GF of the group. But then he got on NS and pushed like hell, which looks too aggresive for a bus. In iso#39, Fate reiterated the NS-Andrius team with a comment about them both going V/LA and he seems very convinced but then argues NS over Andrius and starts backing off of his read when the Andrius wagon built up quickly. Interesting contradiction: in iso#26 he adamantly tells me that wagon speed cannot be an indicator of towniness and cites his experience to back up that PoV; and yet, in iso#42-44, he reverses a solid scumread on Andrius for no other reason than wagon speed and, within a few posts, is demanding that people unvote Andrius. His play today has been full of contradictions. The OMGUS felt real at first, which was a point in his favor, but it dropped off quickly as soon as I moved my vote to Fishy, which strikes me as unatural.

shotty

Voted Mafuyu, Fate, Fishy, and Andrius. His Maf vote still looks solid to me, as do his first few defenses. He got frustrated with Fate and lost his cool under pressure. In hindsight, the early claim is either a town mistake or a very calculating scum play that I feel is out of character from shotty-scum. I don't like how comfortable he was being called a VI, a perjoritive should sting the ego more. He slipped in well-reasoned attacks but also made a bunch of silly mistakes, which suggests that VI is a playstyle choice. In iso#23, he asked for a VC thirty minutes after placing RB Andrius @ L-1; it

did

make sense from town in context but I can see a nervous buddy jumping the gun in that scenario too. His D2 play is lazy and lacks curiosity.

He misreps my play terrible by pointing out contradictions that don't exist. For someone as supposedly a THOROUGH reader as you Ythill you seem to take my "reversing Andrius read" waaaaay out of context. Drmy's wagon built up quickly AS HE WAS BEING SCUMMY, aka not a town indicator. Andrius' wagon built up quickly AS HE WASN'T EVEN HERE. Definitely more of a town tell imo. I might even begin to say that drmy looks more like mafia for putting him at L-1 then asking for a vote count in order to sure he is not voted again (Aka drmy knew that was a L-1 vote) too quickly, because that wagon was too fast for scum NOT to be on it.

He's META-DEFENDING the other scum for fucks sake. He doesn't want drmy lynched today BECAUSE of earlier said reasons. Its interesting because he also attempts to distance himself from drmy (first game I've seen scum on diff teams distance, but if you think about its the best play) to avoid appearing "anti-drmy lynch" by giving off a few reasons to suspect drmy.

ON DRMY:

[Fate]

Drmy's meta indicates that he IS CAPABLE of using reasoning and thought out cases, and overall TRYING.

The thing with VI playstyle is that people are more easily to write it off. "Oh that's just drmy being silly/stupid/whatever"

[BTW YTHAN THAT

WAS

ME BEING NICE SO TAKE YOUR GIRL SHORTS OFF]

whereas when YTHILL or someone like him posts we are more likely to say "hmmm now that's all nice and thought out but WHY did he write that? What scum motivations could he have?"

The thing missing is we SHOULD be doing that with DRMY's play "hmmm but what if he was SCUM why WOULD he post stupid things and pretend to be completely ignorant of the game" BECAUSE PEOPLE WONT FRICKIN SUSPECT HIM THEN.

1+1=2 VOTE DRMY/YTHILL FOR PREZ.

[Fate]

YOU GUYS ARE GIVING ME MY YTHILL WAGON?

OH GAWD YESSSSSSSSSSS

Unvote:
Vote: Ythill

[Fate]

@AGar: My "case" on Ythill was obvmisreps and twists, I was hoping the point of that case was clear as to show that it was just a mirror of what Ythill did to me. Aka "confirmation bias." The fact that Ythill continues to argue that its a "town-linked" terminology shows that he is just pushing semantics and his superior debating abilities over a null point. Confirmation bias is NOT town-only, it is a flawed way of forming a case, and like _____(?) said since Ythill might think I'm the SK or whatever he can still use because he doesn't know if I am the other scum or not.

In the end I probably WON'T be able to find any glaringly obvious slips in Ythill's play, and will be tantamount to screaming into a pillow that he's scum all night. Hoping someone will hear me.

@Nham: I was not arguing that Ythill was scum for catching his partners, because:

1. He didn't "catch them" he merely helped vote for them (he wasn't a main driving force of the wagon)
2. I was saying that Ythill-scum would indeed bus early, not that Ythill being on the scum wagons are a scumtell. Using this train of thought I decided following and agreeing with Ythill's leads D1 would be good town play.

If not today then tomorrow. I'm sure a pair of flips will help build the Ythill case some more.

[Fate]

@Fate: I asked you why you think Ythill is scum. I'd still like to know.

He'll slip eventually. Give it time give it time...

[Fate]

Ythil is scum,
I will have limitted acess for a long time, because I shattered my foot yesterday

^What part of this post makes fucking sense? He shattered his foot, was able to post (aka not hospitalized) but now won't be able to post because of XXXX?

I mean, I usually don't take RL reasons into my mafia suspects but wdffff.

AT LEAST HIS VOTES ON YTHILLSCUMZ

[Fate]

Is it bad I forgot about this game?

[Fate]

Look I've laid out my thoughts on Ythill, he isn't someone I can just yell at and make them crack. He's immune to my goddamned style and its frustrating.

All I can say is

LOOK AT DEM VOTECOUNTS. THINK IF YTHILLSCUM WERE YTHILLSCUM WHAT HIS MOTIVATIONS FOR MAKIN X POSTS AND X VOTES WOULD BE.

That's all Ican say. I'm just biased from my slot I guess that Ythill is scum.

[Fate]

Forgot to post it in this game but something happened real life that really took the wind out of my sails motivation wise.

I'm having trouble getting into this game because it is so out of my control. I'm used to people sheeping me and being a cornerstone of discussion, but in this game Ythill is sexier than me and masons are more confirmed town than me. So I make the necessary wagons happen the way I want them to for my reads.


That said if I had to choose I'm going with Unsight. Besides my Yosarian2 alt status forcing me to lynch all VTs, his play this game has been starkly at odds from the last time we played together, in which he didn't cease tunneling me no matter how much suspicion was brought against him. This was probably due to a playstyle difference that we had, but I notice this game he didn't even seem to suspect me D1 when it wasn't really safe to do so, but the second Ythill came out with a vote on me today he joined that wagon safely.

Unvote:
Vote: Unsight

[Fate]

I think you just hammered him so if you could give a quick rundown of your case ASAP that would be cool....

[Fate]

So you admit you don't have your own personal case on him you would just latch on to others...

At least I have one Fate sheep this game? His alignment? TBD.

[Fate]

Mislynch ahoy. Good job town, you fucked up.

I forgive nhammen though. <3

We'll see what Ythan says. I'm counting votes

[Fate]

That's all you have to say Ythill?

[Fate]

You're both scum if Unsight's town.

Whichever one of you I can get support for tomorrow.

(BTW he quoted Ythill so way to be nervous for no reason)

[Fate]

Oh so NOW you pretend to be someone who is capable of dying at night and posting his last words.

Ok Ythill. Nice try, nice try.

In other news you're ruling out drmy again even though he just quickhammered Unsight under VI pretense yet again.

I still believe Fishy's pointing out that all of drmy's VI actions just so happen to coincide with perfect scum motivation.

I'll get one of you dead tomorrow. Just you wait.

[Fate]

MOD PROD LULZ.

Also Ythill that is so forced its not even funny.

[Fate]

Stop being ridiculous. My chance of tonight is as low as yours. Or should we be concerned that you're making plans for tomorrow?

Anyway, I'm expecting to live through the night but, if I don't, please make use of my analyses. There's nothing more frustrating that watching a loss from the graveyard and knowing that key information I posted is being ignored.

The hell would this even come into your HEAD? With both masons alive, I didn't even think for a second I'd have to die, therefore I didn't even think for a second to say "if I die read mah posts plz!"

This line looks tacked on as a sort of "here's wut a townie wuld say cause they dun expect to always live" at the end. A scumdisclaimer if you will, ITS NOT NATURAL AT ALL.

[Fate]

mudfights?

*eyes glaze over*

[Fate]

I'll give him until Sunday. One week absence=fail unexcusablez.

Then I will be vindicated for my reads, sweet sweet justice

[Fate]

The game state was compromised D1. I'm sorry I can't play this anymore, it isn't fair.

[Fate]

I shouldn't have to work aroound the mod error of revealing NS as a goon, thus robbing me of my fakeclaim.


I'm PMing Ythan, hopefully he'll just let me draw and let you continue on with 5 players

[Fate]

I have to. Im fairly confident I could have won this with my fakeclaim, but reviewing the possible setup I can no longer. And that really frustrates me, combined witrh (see sig), and I rather take my draw then go with a suboptimal plan.

Have fun looking for the SK.

[Fate]

I put time and energy into this game too, which was compromised when Ythan revealed something that made this game unfair in multipe ways which I can discuss postgame. I don't replace out of games, and me doing so wouldn't have restored the fairness of the game.

Should I have done this earlier? Maybe, but my recent physical state has pushed me beyond the limits of just sucking it up and playing in spite of the mod error.

I understand the SK is upset (hint hint) because if Im not killed and the day force ended, they will need 2 mislynches to win.

Which is why I suggested my slot removed and the day ended.

[Fate]

Noooo! Fate! You could have still at least tried. You could have counterclaimed Fishy for instance, hoping he was the SK. Well, you will be removed and the day force ended... by us lynching you!!

VOTE: Fate

And in addition to this, you had me convinced you could not possibly be the Mafia partner. You were doing so well. You shouldn't have given up.

Like I said, post game. I only like flawless victories

Vote: Fate

[Fate]

Can I post yet?

>_>b (GJ SK, you're lucky no one listens to scum post death)

[Fate]

Nah I failed you all...

I coulda won solo but YTHAN TOOK AWAY MY

Ythill

SK LYNCH FAKECLAIM.

GOD DAMN FIXED SETUPS

[Fate]

Ythill, frame of mind. I gave up whata, a day after my accident? I was depressed and angry and didn't want to deal with the brokenness.

You won because of your day play, which was superior to mine because I was playing to a RB claim of you N1 n N3 which wouldve explained my play and gotten you lynched. Tell me honestly if you think I couldve gotten you lynched without that claim, I wouldnt have been able to.

And that insult is uncalled for. A whiner? If I was such a poor sport why didn't I claim my scumRB info and greatly ruin your chances of winning?

I do look forward to playing with you again, hopefully it will go more smoothly and you'll be able to see my town game

[Fate]

Wow - we double roleblocked Ythill N1?? I can see why you thought the masons were scum now - it always seemed a weird thing for you to disbelieve.

I don't think the vanilla flip affected the game that much. It only ruled out very unlikely setups (particularly after we knew there was a SK), and unless I'm missing something Fate wouldn't have been able to claim roleblocker anyway after I had.

I really had no idea what I'd have done today if nhammen had died instead - I never got near a concrete suspicion as to who the SK was. I really struggle with SKs - with good players very immune SKs may as well be townies. I was gradually deciding drmy wasn't a likely SK, but then nor was anyone else.

Well played Ythill. Thanks for modding, Ythan. Self hammers suck.

'The setup coulkdve had two town blockers AKA

DBBBMMC, but that wouldve given the scum team NO GOONS, (Spy instead) so I couldnt CClaim you

[Fate]

We killed reck cause you were being protected, Ythill.

[Fate]

Yes I knew Justa was a PR. I know who its an alt of as well, and that person is the onlt one on this site who can read me 90%+

[Fate]

Also I spent so much time arguing with Andrius that you WERENT a cop, that I lost sight of you being a SK and sent a block on Fishy (another correct PR read) instead.

I got drunk the last night of the deadline N1, but if you'll believe me I promise my plan was to come back and change the RB to you again Ythill.

[Fate]

*points at NS*

>_>