Open 239 - C9++

[Ythill]

@Unsight:

Mafuyu’s claim is that “at least one M exists”. Now, if Mafuyu is an Innocent Child, I see no harm in claiming her, and getting the mod to confirm it. If not, I see no harm in her claiming the size of his mason group. I may be missing something (and no claim should come before we’ve discussed it), but AFAIC Mafuyu should be claiming which it is.

Mason with Maf

.

@nham:

BS. It was very obvious and no potential scumteam in this game contains a combination of players that wouldn't have figured it out of their own. Besides, having a claimed mason pair forces the scum to choose between NKing them and looking for more important power roles. Stalling and softclaiming are both uber scummy here. Maf names a mason buddy in her next post or she dies.

[AGar]

I'm leaning towards Ythill's line of thinking here.

What harm is there in outing the full mason group? Mafia have to choose their NKs, and we can dictate their pace then, even. Mason isn't a pro-town PR that has some uber-lucrative benefit if kept hidden until the right time. They can't give us scum. They can give us 1 or 2 innocent townies at most. They can't protect NKs. But they can dictate the mafia NK.

Think of it this way - we can all agree that Mafuyu has not been a Paragon candidate thus far in the game. There are more obvious choices for optimal pro-town players. So now, if Mafuyu outs her partners and they confirm to be masons, we have dictated the mafia into potentially moving their NK away from a player that could dog them down the road and putting it on someone who is less of a threat. If there are 2 masons, then we have narrowed the pool down to 9 with 3 scum (plus SK). 3 gives us 8 people to find 3 scum, plus a potential SK.

In the meantime, drmyshottyizsik is wholly deserving of votes. More votes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[Mafuyu]

Fine. Nhammen, want to confirm?

[Andrius]

Yeah. I've played as Mason before, and its sometimes better to claim and possibly draw NKs away from other town PRs.

Its a gamble, for sure, but it was definitely better than lynching you. (Unless this was a scum gambit of epic porportions, which I doubt.)

[nhammen]

Since it has now come out, yes I am Mafuyu's mason partner.

@Unsight:

Mafuyu’s claim is that “at least one M exists”. Now, if Mafuyu is an Innocent Child, I see no harm in claiming her, and getting the mod to confirm it. If not, I see no harm in her claiming the size of his mason group. I may be missing something (and no claim should come before we’ve discussed it), but AFAIC Mafuyu should be claiming which it is.

Mason with Maf

.

@nham:

BS. It was very obvious and no potential scumteam in this game contains a combination of players that wouldn't have figured it out of their own. Besides, having a claimed mason pair forces the scum to choose between NKing them and looking for more important power roles. Stalling and softclaiming are both uber scummy here. Maf names a mason buddy in her next post or she dies.

How exactly does that quote remove Fishy from the possibility of being a mason? I was thinking about saying something similar after Mafuyu had claimed. You have left practically no other choice. Which I am very annoyed at you for. I really do not like how you are pushing so hard for claims. You should seriously not be doing this. The proper play would be to find someone else for today. If you wanted to lynch a claimed mason, you could do it on a later day. Because now there are 2 masons outted, and you have given scum a wider range of options. Without this, they probably would have killed Mafuyu tonight, and had to try for other targets without knowing who is mason.

BTW, I breadcrumbed our mason status. I will quote it in one moment.

[nhammen]

Sorry, I was going to claim right before "You have left practically no choice." but then changed it to make sure my claim was more noticeable by being the first thing. Now it sorta doesn't fit right. Anyways, getting my breadcrumb.

[nhammen]

lol at Ythill #97
Our reads are so different from each other it isn't even funny.

lol because Mafuyu and I were the two players he listed as scum, and yet we are the two that are confirmed Town to each other.
I said "isn't even funny" as a breadcrumb to say that the lol was not about the reads being different; it was more specific than that.

There. That was my breadcrumb.

[nhammen]

Sorry for the quadruple post, but I forgot to mention, that breadcrumb was almost undetectable, so I was going to mention it in the QT in case I died. No need for that any more.

Also, now I can also say, Ythill when asked for people to defend Mafuyu, what were you expecting? Mafuyu's speculation was so weird I can't see how anyone could defend it.

[Fishythefish]

OK. That's no disaster. If scum wanted to kill off the mason group (which is of course real at this stage), they weren't going to find it that hard.

dr is somewhere around L-2 by my count.

[Ythan]

Happy birthday Ythill. Catching up.

No fuck face, how about you read the thread and take a look at post 147

Tone.

As per the wiki, Innocent Children are generally confirmed at the start of the game. There is an

option

to allow them to be confirmed by request.

@MOD: Which is it in this game?

At the start.

Mafuyu (4): Nobody Special, Unsight, drmyshottyizsik, Ythill
Fate (1): animorpherv1
animorpherv1 (0):
Ythill (0):
nhammen (0):
drmyshottyizsik (4): Fishythefish, Fate, Mafuyu, AGar
Fishythefish (0):
Andrius (0):
Nobody Special (1): nhammen
Unsight (0):
AGar (0):

not voting (1):
Andrius

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch. Deadline is August 12 at 11:59pm EST.

[Mafuyu]

Mafuyu would also like to mention that Ythill himself has breadcrumbed this ever since he used the phrase "Cognitive Dissonance". CD isn't necessarily a scumtell.

[Ythill]

unvote

You have left practically no other choice. Which I am very annoyed at you for.

Get over it please. If you are masons, we have initiated a game of chicken with the scum where they have to either leave two potential confirmed townies alive which will become more problematic as the endgame approaches, or waste two NKs that could be used for hunting other PRs while creating a situation where one of you is exlpicitly and undeniably confirmed for a short time. If you are scum, we have created a situation where a cardflip from one of you gives us a 100% scum lynch on the other with no way to talk your way out of it. The play was clearly optimal. I am sorry that I had to force your hand as overtly as I did, because it wasn't very polite, but I am playing to win.

@Maf:

I don't understand, what have I breadcrumbed? Cognitive dissonance is a reliable indicator of ulterior motives.

I need to step back from my tunnel vision for a minute and take a fresh look at the game. The mason claims do explain much of nham's problematic behavior. I will check my reads over the next day or two and try to look at things from a fresh perspective.

[AGar]

Nham, I think you're overreacting a little bit. Yes, it sucks a bit that you guys got outted, but at the same time, you guys are now helping us control the scum to an extent. They either leave us with two confirmed townies or they leave us with really strong pro-town players that they would've otherwise attempted to off. Win-win in my book.

Now, onto other things.

The end of Andrius' 178 irks me a bit. It may be nothing, and I may be overly paranoid, but it seems like that is the perfect setup for a play later down the road if scum decide to start knocking off players other than nham and mafu where Andrius starts an attack on the two for being alive still.

I don't like the admitted tunneling of Ythill, but that's not necessarily telling, just unsettling.

Ani needs to get his ass in here.

[Fate]

Ythill, what the HECK are you doing!? How is revealing all possible partners for Mafuyu in any way pro-Town? How does it seem like a good idea at all? That was seriously terribad play Ythill. If there are 3 masons, you have potentially revealed the entire mason group. For the moment, I am refusing to claim whether or not I am Mafuyu's partner, and I believe that ani and anybody else should do the same.

It's not a secret. It's obvious based on voting trends. What isn't obvious is that Ythill left fishy out of that list and I want to know why.

^Ythill why haven't you answered this?

[Ythill]

I have:

@Unsight:

Mafuyu’s claim is that “at least one M exists”. Now, if Mafuyu is an Innocent Child, I see no harm in claiming her, and getting the mod to confirm it. If not, I see no harm in her claiming the size of his mason group. I may be missing something (and no claim should come before we’ve discussed it), but AFAIC Mafuyu should be claiming which it is.

Mason with Maf

.

I don't like the admitted tunneling of Ythill, but that's not necessarily telling, just unsettling.

When I unvoted Maf, I had trouble figuring out where to vote. I thought maybe shotty, but I keep coming around to Maf-is-scum. I don't know what to call that except tunneling, sorry. If you think it was just unsettling rather than telling, why mention it? How does mudslinging help the town?

I still haven't done any rereading and may not tonight since it's my birthday and I might be too drunk.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I feel this would be a great time to

Claim: VT

[Mafuyu]

I feel this would be a great time to

Claim: VT

...what.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm a Vanilla Towny

[Nobody Special]

drshotty, why are you claiming at L-2?

Especially when no one has asked?

This is very scummy. What are you trying to avoid?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Oh sorry thought I was L-1. That sucks, mis read the number next to my vote count name.
I just felt it was the right time to claim, Kill me if you want I will be a VT but please go after Mafucker when I'm dead.

[Mafuyu]

Now that that is out of Mafuyu's system...no wait, it isn't.

WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO THAT. Not only did you not provide town any useful information regarding the setup, but you give scum more information to sift through and determine how to hit night targets, and increase the chance of scum not targeting Mafuyu and Nhammen tonight and actually pegging down any other PRs actually in this game.

Part of the benefit of the Mason reveal was that because there was a significant portion of unidentified town players left, scum would be more likely to direct NKs towards the claimed Masons. However, claiming VT means that if you somehow don't get lynched, you're one less townie that could be a PR.

[Ythan]

...please go after Mafucker when I'm dead.

Tone; killing you will be unnecessary if it doesn't change.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Sorry, I would feel alot better if one of him mason partners confirmed him, or a real mason said he wasn't, but I don't think that will happen. So for now I think what the town needs to realize is that the main two suspects are both claiming town, or mason and either one if killed will be a mislynch. We need too figure out who is driving both of the wagons, other than me and Mafuyu and go after them

Unvote: Mafuyu

[Andrius]

Sorry, I would feel alot better if one of him mason partners confirmed him, or a real mason said he wasn't, but I don't think that will happen.

Since it has now come out, yes I am Mafuyu's mason partner.

Read the thread Dr.

[drmyshottyizsik]

....... I feel dumb. Still I still have full belief in my second part of that post.
Also they could be the scum together as well, just saying, but I don't think so.
So now I want to know why NS, unsight and ythil havent retracted their votes.